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My thoughts on dynasty play (1 Viewer)

crnerblitz

Footballguy
Rebuilding is to me a tactic employed within your own overall strategy. If you make it your strategy you can get locked into the wrong mindset. Our overarching goal in dynasty play should be “To build the perfect dynasty team. One that crushes all your foes for years to come.” Is that even possible? Yes it is, but it’s also not very likely, so our strategy should always focus us on putting the best team we can on the field.

Putting together the very best team possible will require that you employ liberal use of all the roster tools you have at hand; Free Agency, Trades, Drafting, and Player Development.

Free Agency. Once a week scan the waiver wire and pick up the guy who scored 2 touchdowns right? Wrong! I firmly believe that Free agency, waivers or whatever your league may call it is the best and fastest way to impact your team. You can reload your team right here, right now for nothing of value but roster spots. How does a potential free agent fit into your long-term plans? Does he have long term upside or is he just this week’s one hit wonder? Seldom will you be able to acquire a guy the week he breaks out. YOU HAVE TO BE AT LEAST TWO WEEKS AHEAD OF YOUR COMPITITION AT THE WAIVERS GAME. Spending thirty minutes looking at waivers once a week will not cut it. You should spend at least 2 to 3 hours a week scouring the waiver wire and leaning everything about potential breakouts. Identify players who could be given a chance to perform in the next couple of weeks due to minor ailments affecting older veterans. Look for trends that show potential growth within the team. Are His targets, receptions, and yards slowly creeping upwards? Now might be the time to roster the guy.

Trades. People don’t work the trade lines enough. You have to put in the time talking to your league-mates. Send them e-mails just to discuss football games. Always stay in touch with them. You should know them by their first names. They should know you by your first name. Having a report with someone makes it much easier to discuss all kinds of trade possibilities. It also cuts down on hurt feelings. Get out there and talk to your counterparts. You can’t spend too much time. I once had to talk trade with 3 team owners for about two weeks before I was able to make a deal that helped my team. That leads me into keeping your options open. Once you can talk in a relaxed manner with these guys your able to let them know that your keeping your options open, working several trades at once in order to help your team. Avoid openly playing them off of one another. Someone is sure to be put-off by a bidding war, and he is a future trading partner. This is especially true if the trade is less than a blockbuster. There are lots of ways to make distinctly different trade offers while improving your team in different ways. Let them know that you have two or three other deals being negotiated and that you intend to close a deal in the near future. They will appreciate the honesty.

Drafting. It’s all about the rookies’ boys! Everyone loves the new toys. Do your research and evaluate your prospects. Study your opponents’ rosters and past drafting history. Break down the league’s past tendencies. In one dynasty league I know it is a given that the first round will be eight RB’s, three QB’s, four WR’s, and one TE. Five of those RB’s will go before pick nine. This is based on data from over eight years of draft history. Mock draft your league. Place players on some rosters. See who’s left at your spot. Who might be coveting and who might be tempted to reach for need. Would He be wanting to move up but is playing it cool right now. Go find out by asking him. All these things can help put you in position to clean up on draft day.

Player development. This is important. Know how many roster spots you can allocate to rookies and developing players. Only have 6 roster spots but 9 rookie picks? That’s sure to get your league-mates circling you like a wounded tuna. Just be sure you have a plan to deal with pick overload. Don’t give up on players too soon though, but also don’t wait too long a player to develop. I have been on the wrong side of both of these. It’s very hard to know when is too long and when is not long enough. Make a decision about a player going into the season and then stick with that decision as long as reasonable.

Rebuilding. Sounds simple, eh? But even that word is loaded. What if you only need to rebuild your runningbacks corps? Is that a rebuild? Should we scrap our team because we have no starting runningbacks? We could reclassify this situation as a remodel and not a rebuild. I certainly wouldn’t gut my team to add runningbacks. Instead I might employ some short-term fixes. I won’t tell you to trade depth for a stud because that is obvious. I will tell you that I have used some methods that have met with mixed results. Tactics that are sure to be mocked as inefficient and counter productive.

Roster clearing, stuck with junk, bad football, chuck it all rebuilding is what we are talking about. Employ the tools listed above, but try to develop specific tactics based on your leagues rules and roster requirements. In a sixteen-team dynasty league that requires two starting RB’s a strategy of “Every draft pick for runningbacks and hope we get lucky.” can work well, though slowly. This is not a quick fix and can take many long years. But if you manage to get two starters and some young upside talent then you can leverage that talent to stock the rest of your roster. In a 12-team flex that spreads out scoring evenly, you might draft for need. Luckily, every position is a need. Drafting for need can be useful, but needs change and most rookies are 2-3 years away from helping you in any significant way. That brings me to “Best Player Available.” I believe in it and tend to follow that guideline when possible. I loosely prescribe to the “BPA” theory when drafting but I modify it for wide receivers. WR’s are a poor use of draft picks and roster spots. Wide receivers tend to take at least 2-3 years to develop, sometimes even longer than that. Many times, guys that are drafted this year are given up on in the winter and are on the waiver wire in the spring. Jason Hill, Johnnie Lee Higgins, and Mike Walker were all picked up by me from the waiver wire this spring. Someone else spent the draft pick and rostered them for a year. My cost was nadda. And I got a year knocked off of Their development time, that is the time I have to roster them before determining if the will be part of my teams future.

Well, that covers quite a bit. Remember rebuilding is a tactical phase. Many folks get mired in it as a strategy and are locked into perpetual rebuild, always seeking younger players, more draft picks and never end up in the Championship game. Keep your cool and I’ll see you there.

 
Nice writeup.... I especially agree about rookie WRs taking too long to develop. I trade my non-top draft picks if I can get decent value every year.

I'll add that to maintain a top team over time, you will often have to trade a stud for good value. I've been a top 5 team every year in my 7th year dynasty league, and I've traded LT, T.Owens, and T.Holt, among others. Through those and various other trades, I now have S.Jax, ADP, Portis, and Grant at RB with Moss, Chad Johnson, S.Holmes and J.Walker at WR.... plus I have the 2nd most free agent money to spend on next year's crop of RFAs, and have all my draft picks. My trades have allowed me to weather the Lamont Jordan fiasco and Caddy Williams debacle. :angry:

 
crnerblitz said:
Trades. People don’t work the trade lines enough. You have to put in the time talking to your league-mates. Send them e-mails just to discuss football games. Always stay in touch with them. You should know them by their first names. They should know you by your first name. Having a report with someone makes it much easier to discuss all kinds of trade possibilities. It also cuts down on hurt feelings. Get out there and talk to your counterparts. You can’t spend too much time.
Some very good points. Since we don't have face-to-face interaction, getting to know the other owners in your league, even just by email, makes it less impersonal, as you seem to know better who you are dealing with. It takes extra effort, but it is worthwhile and pays off in the long run.
 
crnerblitz said:
“To build the perfect dynasty team. One that crushes all your foes for years to come.” Is that even possible? Yes it is, but it’s also not very likely, so our strategy should always focus us on putting the best team we can on the field.
I get my "best team on the field" fix with redraft; for dynasty, my aim is to dominate for years, otherwise I would not even bother.
 
crnerblitz said:
“To build the perfect dynasty team. One that crushes all your foes for years to come.” Is that even possible? Yes it is, but it’s also not very likely, so our strategy should always focus us on putting the best team we can on the field.
I get my "best team on the field" fix with redraft; for dynasty, my aim is to dominate for years, otherwise I would not even bother.
:eek: while it's very hard to achieve, i agree that the main goal in a dynasty league is to try to build a team that can dominate for years. You have to take chances in the rookie draft to achieve this so i don't agree with people that always trade their rookie picks.Otherwise you'll miss out on guys like Steven Jackson/larry Fitz/AJ/Braylon Edwards/etc. If you don't get those types out of the rookie draft the only way you'll get those types is by trading through the kazoo.Sure some rookie picks will be misses, but you have no shot to hit on huge value otherwise.I love the teams that trade their picks for older vets and then a few years down the line run into a wall with a team full of complete garbage.
 
Free Agency. Once a week scan the waiver wire and pick up the guy who scored 2 touchdowns right? Wrong! I firmly believe that Free agency, waivers or whatever your league may call it is the best and fastest way to impact your team. You can reload your team right here, right now for nothing of value but roster spots. How does a potential free agent fit into your long-term plans? Does he have long term upside or is he just this week’s one hit wonder? Seldom will you be able to acquire a guy the week he breaks out. YOU HAVE TO BE AT LEAST TWO WEEKS AHEAD OF YOUR COMPITITION AT THE WAIVERS GAME. Spending thirty minutes looking at waivers once a week will not cut it. You should spend at least 2 to 3 hours a week scouring the waiver wire and leaning everything about potential breakouts. Identify players who could be given a chance to perform in the next couple of weeks due to minor ailments affecting older veterans. Look for trends that show potential growth within the team. Are His targets, receptions, and yards slowly creeping upwards? Now might be the time to roster the guy.
one of the biggest mistakes I see other dynasty players make is not taking advantage of the WW each week. great write up
 
Trades. People don’t work the trade lines enough. You have to put in the time talking to your league-mates. Send them e-mails just to discuss football games. Always stay in touch with them. You should know them by their first names. They should know you by your first name. Having a report with someone makes it much easier to discuss all kinds of trade possibilities. It also cuts down on hurt feelings. Get out there and talk to your counterparts. You can’t spend too much time. I once had to talk trade with 3 team owners for about two weeks before I was able to make a deal that helped my team. That leads me into keeping your options open. Once you can talk in a relaxed manner with these guys your able to let them know that your keeping your options open, working several trades at once in order to help your team. Avoid openly playing them off of one another. Someone is sure to be put-off by a bidding war, and he is a future trading partner. This is especially true if the trade is less than a blockbuster. There are lots of ways to make distinctly different trade offers while improving your team in different ways. Let them know that you have two or three other deals being negotiated and that you intend to close a deal in the near future. They will appreciate the honesty.
this is the most important thing a dynasty owner can do, speciality in the off season
 
i will give everyone a very simple tip for dynasty

just put talent on your team. do not worry about position needs. you can always trade depth for starting needs

 
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great write up, I also like drafting vet players who's situations have changed late in the rookie drafts. Examples Miles Austin, Luke McCown, Earl Bennett, etc... Guy that I saw pay off the most was Cotchery (after his rookie season where he didn't see the field)

Austin was off and on my team a few times, just wasn't enough there to hold onto. Now I'm regretting that. Overcoaching sometimes burns you too. You'd be amazed if I told you all the players that were on my team that won the championship but dropped. Overcoaching does beat undercoaching everytime

 
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Great write up, 'blitz. One thing that I always try think of when adding a player off waivers is whether this player has any upside. What I mean by this is that there is no reason picking up a WR6 for your fantasy team that has no upside. I want the bottom of my roster to be guys that have the potential to contribute. Every position has these players that are on the bottom of rosters and will stay there, unless very deep league or expanded starting lineups. For this reason, I would prefer a WR like Jerry Porter over Isaac Bruce and a QB like Chris Simms (esp with the Cutler ordeal going on) over Jeff Garcia, even Kerry Collins. In a start 1 QB league, I would not want to rely on Collins.

Thanks again for putting this out there. Since this is a broad dynasty thread, what are your thoughts on:

Roster distribution in terms of age and positions?

Evaluating the upside vs risk ratio?

And, lastly, the one that that is toughest for most dynasty players ... the balance of roster depth versus looking to improve starters?

 
I thought this was a new thread, and was going to respond with how I agree with the rookie WR development thing.... imagine my surprise as the first reply was mine saying exactly that. :lmao:

Regarding the guys that accumulate more rookie picks than they have rookie slots: we have 5 rookie squad slots. One team had TEN rookie picks. Come cut down day, he inexplicably dropped Eddie Royal.

Adding Eddie Royal to a championship team was quite a coup. :X

 
i will give everyone a very simple tip for dynasty

just put talent on your team. do not worry about position needs. you can always trade depth for starting needs
:goodposting: Agree completely. When talent becomes available on the WW, in trade, or in the draft, just take it whether you need that position or not.

Conversely, when crafting trade offers be sure to know your opponents' strengths and weaknesses. Examine his depth and try to center your offers on swapping positions he needs for positions he can afford to give up some depth.

Gchat, AIM, or Yahoo IM is a must if you really want to hammer a deal out. You'd be amazed at the information a guy will give you just by talking about the league and you'll often find some of his players are more available than you thought.

Find out what makes the guy tick. Does he like vets? The shiny new rooks? Who's his favorite team? Favorite college? You can often get a guy to overpay for his biases. (obvious, but often forgotten)

 
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My few tips.

TRADES

Be persistent.

Send out offers constantly, even if they are bad.

I have sent out "feelers" that have been accepted, and I have not even sent out offers because i didn't think Team A didn't need another TE, but then I see Team A make a trade that involves him getting a TE.

Bottom line, is that I have seen trades that make no sense for an owner go through. But each owner has their plan for their team.

Also, people have different values on players, and positions.

Find out that key info and your trading future will look bright for years to come.

Don't get "offended" at any offer, just keep the lines of communication open.

Again, people value players very different.

WAIVER WIRE

Pick ANYTHING of any value up.

I play in 16 team deep leagues where a starting QB is always in need.

So yea, I am the guy with 13 backup QB's on my team.

They can provide instant value if they land a starting gig, which given history each year many MANY backups get play for whatever reason.

Last year, I had guys on my roster like Cassell, Ferotte, Collins, Sproles, etc...

Even if all you convert these guys into is a 3rd or 4th RD pick next year, it is value you are producing for free.

Philosophy

I think the term DYNASTY really does make people take a different approach with their team.

While everyone is gearing up with dominating for 5 years, they tend to devalue older players.

Owners will want to have their team consist of each player in the 22-28 year old range.

This can work, but I think tons of relevant value is lost, while everyone is trying to hit a HR with the young potential STUD.

While heading into last year many people preferred to have James Hardy, Limas Sweed or Devin Thomas on their roster, all the while guys like Mason and Mushin could have been had for a 2nd or 3rd RD pick, and started each game for their respective owners, where the younger guys probably got only 1 an emergency spot start.

This is where I think people take the Dynasty approach, of building a monster team with a good young nucleolus.

I still feel this way, but I am adjusting. Too many things change each year to rely on your nucleolus to carry your team.

I now change my roster over alot each year, mainly cause I enjoy the trading aspect with my league mates, but I also am changing my philosophy to move the value meter towards the vets a little more than I always had.

Just my 2 cents...

 
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TRADES

Be persistent.

Send out offers constantly, even if they are bad.
I disagree - people that keep sending me bad trade offers lose credibility with me, and I spend very little time considering any future offers from them - if they have tried to take advantage of me five previous times, why should I believe I am getting a fair deal on the sixth offer?Low ball offers make me angry and I am usually sorry I wasted the time to even open the email. I don't counter offer, I just make a mental note that this is someone I can't take seriously in the future as a trade partner because, obviously, they aren't taking this seriously or are hoping to take advantage of my perceived ignorance of the true value of the trade.

 
TRADES

Be persistent.

Send out offers constantly, even if they are bad.
I disagree - people that keep sending me bad trade offers lose credibility with me, and I spend very little time considering any future offers from them - if they have tried to take advantage of me five previous times, why should I believe I am getting a fair deal on the sixth offer?Low ball offers make me angry and I am usually sorry I wasted the time to even open the email. I don't counter offer, I just make a mental note that this is someone I can't take seriously in the future as a trade partner because, obviously, they aren't taking this seriously or are hoping to take advantage of my perceived ignorance of the true value of the trade.
:goodposting:

Continuously sending out bad offers tends to make you persona non grata in a league...

 
TRADES

Be persistent.

Send out offers constantly, even if they are bad.
I disagree - people that keep sending me bad trade offers lose credibility with me, and I spend very little time considering any future offers from them - if they have tried to take advantage of me five previous times, why should I believe I am getting a fair deal on the sixth offer?Low ball offers make me angry and I am usually sorry I wasted the time to even open the email. I don't counter offer, I just make a mental note that this is someone I can't take seriously in the future as a trade partner because, obviously, they aren't taking this seriously or are hoping to take advantage of my perceived ignorance of the true value of the trade.
I don't necessarily agree with this. I have had some really bad trade offers sent to me. I usually just decline with no counter if it isn't close and on many occasions, I will add a comment that we aren't close enough on value to continue. Sometimes, that owner will send me a counter that is a lot closer and a deal sometimes gets done. I don't like to close doors because this same kind of owner in a past league of mine who sends me some really bad looking offers is the owner who I traded with most in a past league because of the high number of offers he sent. They weren't all bad offers. There are good ones too. I just don't like to eliminate any potential trade partners because of some bad offers. There might be 10 offers sent from an owner and 9 might be really bad. But the 10th offer could be the deal you are looking for.

I used to share the opinion you did, but once I just started rejecting offers with a comment like I said above, things happened a lot more often, even with owners who send a lot of really bad offers.

 
TRADES

Be persistent.

Send out offers constantly, even if they are bad.
I disagree - people that keep sending me bad trade offers lose credibility with me, and I spend very little time considering any future offers from them - if they have tried to take advantage of me five previous times, why should I believe I am getting a fair deal on the sixth offer?Low ball offers make me angry and I am usually sorry I wasted the time to even open the email. I don't counter offer, I just make a mental note that this is someone I can't take seriously in the future as a trade partner because, obviously, they aren't taking this seriously or are hoping to take advantage of my perceived ignorance of the true value of the trade.
:goodposting:

Continuously sending out bad offers tends to make you persona non grata in a league...
Bad offers may have been a bad word, but just the point to send out as many offers as possible.Even if you think the other owner will not accept.

I have seen many deals, in which I thought it was a bad trade for 1 team, but the point is the accepting team thought it was enough value.

Just my point again, different values for different owners, and you never know until you try.

I have got horrible offers, and probably sent out my fare share, but i always respond.

I am not the guy who takes it personal and does not want to bother with an owner who sent me a few bad offers.

I use those offers as starting points to communication, not ending points.

But everyone responds diferently

 
TRADES

Be persistent.

Send out offers constantly, even if they are bad.
I disagree - people that keep sending me bad trade offers lose credibility with me, and I spend very little time considering any future offers from them - if they have tried to take advantage of me five previous times, why should I believe I am getting a fair deal on the sixth offer?Low ball offers make me angry and I am usually sorry I wasted the time to even open the email. I don't counter offer, I just make a mental note that this is someone I can't take seriously in the future as a trade partner because, obviously, they aren't taking this seriously or are hoping to take advantage of my perceived ignorance of the true value of the trade.
Generally agree with this.You have to have a starting point with trades, and there is nothing wrong with a starting point that favors your team. But OBVIOUSLY bad, lopsided trade offers are bad in two ways: first, they are insulting to intelligent owners. Second, when the novice or bad owner accepts terrible offers, it is unfair to the rest of the teams. Longterm, this will cause problems in many dynasty leagues, which are notoriously difficult to keep together. Some dynasty leaguemates agree with a laissez faire league where anything goes, and that is fine for them. Many people get upset, especially in dynasty leagues where terrible moves impact the league for years instead of one season, when these happen.

That said, there is no need to get personally offended at bad offers. I generally send an equally bad offer with a note describing how bad MY offer is, or just respond with something like "Thanks, but get back to me when you want to make a real offer."

 
TRADES

Be persistent.

Send out offers constantly, even if they are bad.
I disagree - people that keep sending me bad trade offers lose credibility with me, and I spend very little time considering any future offers from them - if they have tried to take advantage of me five previous times, why should I believe I am getting a fair deal on the sixth offer?Low ball offers make me angry and I am usually sorry I wasted the time to even open the email. I don't counter offer, I just make a mental note that this is someone I can't take seriously in the future as a trade partner because, obviously, they aren't taking this seriously or are hoping to take advantage of my perceived ignorance of the true value of the trade.
:tumbleweed:

Continuously sending out bad offers tends to make you persona non grata in a league...
Bad offers may have been a bad word, but just the point to send out as many offers as possible.Even if you think the other owner will not accept.

I have seen many deals, in which I thought it was a bad trade for 1 team, but the point is the accepting team thought it was enough value.

Just my point again, different values for different owners, and you never know until you try.

I have got horrible offers, and probably sent out my fare share, but i always respond.

I am not the guy who takes it personal and does not want to bother with an owner who sent me a few bad offers.

I use those offers as starting points to communication, not ending points.

But everyone responds diferently
There is no upside in antagonizing a potential future trade partner with a low ball offer. You may find the occasional fool who will take your offer, but more likely you may be burning your bridges for future trades. As my Grandma use to say "you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar" Yes, you don't know until you try, but to insult people with bad offers does make them reluctant (as in my case) to ever take that person seriously again. Some trades involve a lot of back and forth emails, and a silly offer will more likely end a discussion than facilitate any future talks.

As you said, everyone responds differently.

 
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Waiver Wire

Pick ANYTHING of any value up.

I play in 16 team deep leagues where a starting QB is always in need.

So yea, I am the guy with 13 backup QB's on my team.

They can provide instant value if they land a starting gig, which given history each year many MANY backups get play for whatever reason.

Last year, I had guys on my roster like Cassell, Ferotte, Collins, Sproles, etc...

Even if all you convert these guys into is a 3rd or 4th RD pick next year, it is value you are producing for free.

This sounds like just throwing anything at the wall and seeing what sticks. What if you have limited roster space, salary cap, etc. I could never carry 13 backup QB's.

 
The two biggest mistakes I see being made are:

1) Too many owners obsess about youth and will give away valuable veterans for unproven players or draft picks.

2) Many mess up in the initial draft by ignoring the QB position until the later rounds. This is fine in a redraft league but I see many teams without a proven starter at QB after a couple of years in dynasty. Guys that are top ten producers with job security at QB become extremely valuable in dynasty. There aren't many. Try to get two.

As a general rule I try to make good trade offers from the outset. I always try to get the best player in the trade, even if I overpay to do so. It is also vital to think about the needs of the other teams when trading. Try to help and upgrade that team. Don't be afraid to "lose" a trade by giving up too much once in a while. Try to be the owner that everyone looks to first because of your reputation for trading fairly.

 
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This thread is sort of evolving into a discussion of "is it ok to send low ball offers"? But I think the OP is richer than this.

Not sure I can contribute alot but I will say this: I have learned that you do need to trade effectively in dynasty. I don't think it is possible to just rely on drafting and waiver wire. While redraft leagues don't require trading to win, I think dynasty does for the simple fact that your ability to retool your team is more limited since there is so little turnover from year to year and those new rookies you do add to your roster are usually not going to turn the team around in one season. The best GMs in my league are the guys who work trades. I am trying to get better at it and it is the hardest part of the game IMO because to be good at it I DO think you need to be able to look at another guy's roster and figure out how you can help him. That takes time and effort. It is probably easier in leagues where guys are buddies and know each other and talk all the time, and I think the OP was trying to get to that by suggesting you should get to know your leaguemates.

Good advice.

 
The two biggest mistakes I see being made are:

1) Too many owners obsess about youth and will give away valuable veterans for unproven players or draft picks.

2) Many mess up in the initial draft by ignoring the QB position until the later rounds. This is fine in a redraft league but I see many teams without a proven starter at QB after a couple of years in dynasty. Guys that are top ten producers with job security at QB become extremely valuable in dynasty. There aren't many. Try to get two.

As a general rule I try to make good trade offers from the outset. I always try to get the best player in the trade, even if I overpay to do so. It is also vital to think about the needs of the other teams when trading. Try to help and upgrade that team. Don't be afraid to "lose" a trade by giving up too much once in a while. Try to be the owner that everyone looks to first because of your reputation for trading fairly.
:lmao: The bolded part is very true. Don't be afraid to "overpay" for a stud. I have seen and made many trades that look like an owner overpaid for a stud at the time of the trade. He did overpay...at the time. But in a short period of time, HE was the one who made out like a bandit. Trades look a lot different a few months later.

Studs cost a lot because they win championships. I will pay a lot to get a stud in a dynasty league if I want that player bad enough.

 
The two biggest mistakes I see being made are:1) Too many owners obsess about youth and will give away valuable veterans for unproven players or draft picks.2) Many mess up in the initial draft by ignoring the QB position until the later rounds. This is fine in a redraft league but I see many teams without a proven starter at QB after a couple of years in dynasty. Guys that are top ten producers with job security at QB become extremely valuable in dynasty. There aren't many. Try to get two.As a general rule I try to make good trade offers from the outset. I always try to get the best player in the trade, even if I overpay to do so. It is also vital to think about the needs of the other teams when trading. Try to help and upgrade that team. Don't be afraid to "lose" a trade by giving up too much once in a while. Try to be the owner that everyone looks to first because of your reputation for trading fairly.
:lmao: great advice...
 
As a general rule I try to make good trade offers from the outset. I always try to get the best player in the trade, even if I overpay to do so. It is also vital to think about the needs of the other teams when trading. Try to help and upgrade that team. Don't be afraid to "lose" a trade by giving up too much once in a while. Try to be the owner that everyone looks to first because of your reputation for trading fairly.
Yup. I always offer something that can benefit the other guy and frequently "lose" trades on paper. But in the end I'm getting the stud I wanted and didn't burn a bridge.Regarding this idea that "different owners value players differently", is anyone finding this to be less and less true? I think the explosion of dynasty information we've seen in the last couple of seasons has led to many relying strictly on 'expert' rankings. You almost have to see ahead of the rankings and make an offer earlier than you'd like in order to pull value in a trade
 
The two biggest mistakes I see being made are:

2) Many mess up in the initial draft by ignoring the QB position until the later rounds. This is fine in a redraft league but I see many teams without a proven starter at QB after a couple of years in dynasty. Guys that are top ten producers with job security at QB become extremely valuable in dynasty. There aren't many. Try to get two.

a while. Try to be the owner that everyone looks to first because of your reputation for trading fairly.
I am certainly in agreement with you and may be arguing semantics, as it depends how you define the later rounds.As an example, in a start up Dynasty draft in 2007 I took Phillip Rivers in the 8th round the Big Ben in the 10th. Not top ten producers at the time, but I figured that out of the two of them. one might work out. Again, you may not consider these later round picks - however they weren't trendy choices at the time but I liked their potential and they have done well for me.

By the same token, for a start up draft this year, I would like to roll the dice with Matt Ryan (ranked 12th in FBGs Dynasty rankings) and then add either, Schaub, Edwards, Flacco and/or Campbell (I might carry 3 on my roster depending). These guys might not work out, but I can focus the first 5-6 rounds on RBs/WRs and maybe a TE and then address the QB position later.

 
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TRADES

Be persistent.

Send out offers constantly, even if they are bad.
I disagree - people that keep sending me bad trade offers lose credibility with me, and I spend very little time considering any future offers from them - if they have tried to take advantage of me five previous times, why should I believe I am getting a fair deal on the sixth offer?Low ball offers make me angry and I am usually sorry I wasted the time to even open the email. I don't counter offer, I just make a mental note that this is someone I can't take seriously in the future as a trade partner because, obviously, they aren't taking this seriously or are hoping to take advantage of my perceived ignorance of the true value of the trade.
:tumbleweed:

Continuously sending out bad offers tends to make you persona non grata in a league...
Bad offers may have been a bad word, but just the point to send out as many offers as possible.Even if you think the other owner will not accept.

I have seen many deals, in which I thought it was a bad trade for 1 team, but the point is the accepting team thought it was enough value.

Just my point again, different values for different owners, and you never know until you try.

I have got horrible offers, and probably sent out my fare share, but i always respond.

I am not the guy who takes it personal and does not want to bother with an owner who sent me a few bad offers.

I use those offers as starting points to communication, not ending points.

But everyone responds diferently
There is no upside in antagonizing a potential future trade partner with a low ball offer. You may find the occasional fool who will take your offer, but more likely you may be burning your bridges for future trades. As my Grandma use to say "you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar" Yes, you don't know until you try, but to insult people with bad offers does make them reluctant (as in my case) to ever take that person seriously again. Some trades involve a lot of back and forth emails, and a silly offer will more likely end a discussion than facilitate any future talks.

As you said, everyone responds differently.
Just to be clear, I am not advocating ADP for my LColes.I'm just saying, make any and all offers.

Even if I doesn't make sense for your trade partner.

Im always at the top of trade activity in my leagues, and it is due to persistence.

When I said send a "bad offer" I meant, even if you think the owner may not do it just send it, in hopes of generating talks, and in some cases, it may be accepted outright.

 
The two biggest mistakes I see being made are:

2) Many mess up in the initial draft by ignoring the QB position until the later rounds. This is fine in a redraft league but I see many teams without a proven starter at QB after a couple of years in dynasty. Guys that are top ten producers with job security at QB become extremely valuable in dynasty. There aren't many. Try to get two.

a while. Try to be the owner that everyone looks to first because of your reputation for trading fairly.
I am certainly in agreement with you and may be arguing semantics, as it depends how you define the later rounds.As an example, in a start up Dynasty draft in 2007 I took Phillip Rivers in the 8th round the Big Ben in the 10th. Not top ten producers at the time, but I figured that out of the two of them. one might work out. Again, you may not consider these later round picks - however they weren't trendy choices at the time but I liked their potential and they have done well for me.

By the same token, for a start up draft this year, I would like to roll the dice with Matt Ryan (ranked 12th in FBGs Dynasty rankings) and then add either, Schaub, Edwards, Flacco and/or Campbell (I might carry 3 on my roster depending). These guys might not work out, but I can focus the first 5-6 rounds on RBs/WRs and maybe a TE and then address the QB position later.
Rivers and Roethlisberger were good choices because the Steelers and Chargers are not likely to bench them anytime soon. The same is true of a guy like Eli Manning. He may not be a stud, but he isn't going anywhere.I have Peyton Manning on all three of my dynasty teams. I drafted him in one and traded for him in the other two.

I think absolute studs like Manning assume a lot more value in dynasty. I would rather secure the QB position for the next five years than take a chance on a RB with very limited history to go on for instance.

The scoring system and the way the draft went would determine the exact spot.

I guess what I am saying is don't be the last guy to draft a QB. It might work in a redraft where you take the 12th and 13th QB, but adjust the value sharply upwards in dynasty.

 
Waiver WirePick ANYTHING of any value up.I play in 16 team deep leagues where a starting QB is always in need.So yea, I am the guy with 13 backup QB's on my team.They can provide instant value if they land a starting gig, which given history each year many MANY backups get play for whatever reason.Last year, I had guys on my roster like Cassell, Ferotte, Collins, Sproles, etc...Even if all you convert these guys into is a 3rd or 4th RD pick next year, it is value you are producing for free.This sounds like just throwing anything at the wall and seeing what sticks. What if you have limited roster space, salary cap, etc. I could never carry 13 backup QB's.
Yes, it is exactly throwing anything at the wall that sticks.Cause if anything sticks, it has value.Now obviously, I am not advocating dropping starters for 3rd string back ups. But if your roster allows for many players, take advantage of it EVEN IF YOU THINK A PLAYER IS NOT GONNA HAVE LONG TERM VALUE.Take advantage of a Jim Sorgi, if Manning is only out 2-4 weeks.My leagues are 16 team IDP leagues, with 45 man rosters in season, and 58 off season.So any player with any potential value gets nabbed.for example MVick is on a roster in each league.Any LB who becomes a starter in season due to an injury gets picked up.If you are in rebuild mode, I advocate taking these guys, and just selling them if they present no long term value to teams in contention.
 
The two biggest mistakes I see being made are:

1) Too many owners obsess about youth and will give away valuable veterans for unproven players or draft picks.

2) Many mess up in the initial draft by ignoring the QB position until the later rounds. This is fine in a redraft league but I see many teams without a proven starter at QB after a couple of years in dynasty. Guys that are top ten producers with job security at QB become extremely valuable in dynasty. There aren't many. Try to get two.

As a general rule I try to make good trade offers from the outset. I always try to get the best player in the trade, even if I overpay to do so. It is also vital to think about the needs of the other teams when trading. Try to help and upgrade that team. Don't be afraid to "lose" a trade by giving up too much once in a while. Try to be the owner that everyone looks to first because of your reputation for trading fairly.
:thumbup: The bolded part is very true. Don't be afraid to "overpay" for a stud. I have seen and made many trades that look like an owner overpaid for a stud at the time of the trade. He did overpay...at the time. But in a short period of time, HE was the one who made out like a bandit. Trades look a lot different a few months later.

Studs cost a lot because they win championships. I will pay a lot to get a stud in a dynasty league if I want that player bad enough.
This is good advice as well.Im trying to learn this from Anthony.

I generally want to "win" every trade.

But I have seen Anthony make a deal in particular when he acquired Calvin for Bowe and KSmith.

I thought he "lost" on that deal, but I soon realized he got a top flight Tier 1 player with the potential top be WR1 for 2 Tier 2-3 players, that probably will never be #1 at their respective position.

Those are the kind of moves that can bring you a championship, and I find it tough to do those deals.

 
Great write up, 'blitz. One thing that I always try think of when adding a player off waivers is whether this player has any upside. What I mean by this is that there is no reason picking up a WR6 for your fantasy team that has no upside. I want the bottom of my roster to be guys that have the potential to contribute. Every position has these players that are on the bottom of rosters and will stay there, unless very deep league or expanded starting lineups. For this reason, I would prefer a WR like Jerry Porter over Isaac Bruce and a QB like Chris Simms (esp with the Cutler ordeal going on) over Jeff Garcia, even Kerry Collins. In a start 1 QB league, I would not want to rely on Collins.

Thanks again for putting this out there. Since this is a broad dynasty thread, what are your thoughts on:

Roster distribution in terms of age and positions?

Evaluating the upside vs risk ratio?

And, lastly, the one that that is toughest for most dynasty players ... the balance of roster depth versus looking to improve starters?
Those are some pretty good questions Jeff. I’ll do my best to add my own insight to them.I think roster distribution per position is really a function of league parameters. Depending on what rules your league operates on; the savvy owner will look for ways to maximize value. I wanted to confirm this but I was unsure of how to go about this. I decided that perhaps I should use three of my dynasty leagues as a snapshot of my own habits. I dug into the rosters of those teams even though they are different dynasty formats from one another. One is pretty standard. Another folds WR and TE together and the third is an auction format with IDP. I was shocked to find that my roster allocation was pretty much down the line. All three leagues had 17, 16, and 16 roster spots allocated to the QB, RB, WR, and TE position. Further more QB averaged 16% of the allocated slots, RB was39% on average. WR was 33% and TE was steady at 12% of allocated roster spots.

I would have to assert that my own preference is to be RB heavy even in flex and PPR/WR only formats. This is mostly a function of being in larger leagues with 14-16 teams that require you to start at least 2 RB’s. I find that I am in a perpetual search for young runningback talent. Many draft picks fail in order to find the one gem that works out. The shelf life of a RB is a very short four to six year span. This law forces smart owners to constantly churn the bottom of their rosters hoping to stumble onto a serviceable back.

I found that the ages and distribution of my three rosters was also interesting.

QB RB WR TEMean 30.1 26.3 27.6 28.9Median 29.4 26.1 26.8 29.0QB’s% UNDER 25 yrs 0%% OVER 30 yrs 29%RB’s% UNDER 25 yrs 16%% OVER 28 yrs 16%WR’s% UNDER 25 yrs 44%% OVER 30 yrs 25%TE's% UNDER 25 yrs 0%% OVER 30 yrs 33%First off, it seems that I don’t tend to have any young prospects at QB. This is not something I overtly planned. I do believe in stashing one young QB prospect on my rosters, but it seems that I just don’t have the roster spot to spare at this time. My runningbacks are a good mix of young and aging vets. I’m right in the middle of that sweet spot between ages 24 and 28 yrs old. This is just a continuation of my observation above, in larger leagues you have to churn one or two RB slots on your roster, yearly.

Wide receivers on my teams tend to be established producers that have been in the league four to six years with a good sprinkling of younger prospects. This would seem to be contrary to what I said earlier about wasting draft picks on WR’s. Two things should be noted. You do need to draft WR’s from time to time. Secondly, if you look a little closer at the specific WR’s you will notice that I did pick up the majority of young WR’s off of the waiver wire and after they had been in the league for a year. This fits with my strategy of judicious use of WR roster spots.

It would seem that I am a bit too old at Tight End. I probably should review my allocation of roster spots to another younger TE’s with more upside then a steady producing, aging vet as my backup TE.

I will try to find time to address your other questions at a later date.

Kevin.

 
“To build the perfect dynasty team. One that crushes all your foes for years to come.” Is that even possible? Yes it is, but it’s also not very likely, so our strategy should always focus us on putting the best team we can on the field.
I get my "best team on the field" fix with redraft; for dynasty, my aim is to dominate for years, otherwise I would not even bother.
Amen.
 
Regarding trades... I think you want the word "rapport" rather then report but anyway... If someone (in a fantasy league) were overly friendly with me, I would not take them seriously. It's good to be honest and direct but don't go over the line.

I guess it depends on the depth of the keeper or dynasty league but I wouldn't neglect the WR position with the assumption the guys will be released after their rookie season. Target well regarded prospects who land in good situations. These league formats give you the luxury of being patient.

 
TRADES

Be persistent.

Send out offers constantly, even if they are bad.
I disagree - people that keep sending me bad trade offers lose credibility with me, and I spend very little time considering any future offers from them - if they have tried to take advantage of me five previous times, why should I believe I am getting a fair deal on the sixth offer?Low ball offers make me angry and I am usually sorry I wasted the time to even open the email. I don't counter offer, I just make a mental note that this is someone I can't take seriously in the future as a trade partner because, obviously, they aren't taking this seriously or are hoping to take advantage of my perceived ignorance of the true value of the trade.
:shrug: I could not of said it any better
 
i don't take a bad offer as an insult unless it's so severely one-sided that I would think it was fishy/suspect possible collusion if two other owners did it. A lot of owners tend to overvalue their own players, and can come down to earth after negotiation. Just in general, people value players and picks differently. They may see more or less potential than you do--it doesn't take too much effort to just let them know you're a ways apart on value. There are a lot of owners who always want to negotiate; if I offer x to get y, they always ask for x+ something. Typically you have to send an offer that's a bit in your favor for them to arrive at an equitable amount, if you don't want to pay through the nose. So if you don't know a guy, remember that he doesn't know you and it's probably part of his feeling-out process.

simple economics dictates that flat-out refusing to make a trade with another owner on "principle" even if you can get a favorable deal that helps your team, only hurts your team. You're denying yourself valuable opportunities to improve, and it reduces competition in the "market," reducing your options and thus giving other owners more leverage.

You can gain the most success operating your team from a business perspective and not letting things get personal. Getting all butt-hurt over a trade offer and reducing your future trade opportunities hurts only you.

I do get annoyed if people just straight up don't reply to trade offers. I'm less likely to send them one in the future.

 

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