NASA plans Cloud City for Venus (1 Viewer)

[TheIronSheik]

LINK

This kind of stuff is always cool to me. Lando would be so proud.

 

[El Floppo]

 

[Doug B]

Some contractor on Venus, circa A.D. 2100:

"You can't build a doghouse on Venus for what NASA wants to pay ... this deal is getting worse all the time."

 

[NCCommish]

Interesting concept for sure.

 

[CBusAlex]

Too bad they have practically condemned it to become some sort of dystopian sci-fi hellscape with their choice of name.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Too bad they have practically condemned it to become some sort of dystopian sci-fi hellscape with their choice of name.

You don't like HAVOC? I think it beat out FIERY DEATH STAR by a few votes.

 

[NCCommish]

Too bad they have practically condemned it to become some sort of dystopian sci-fi hellscape with their choice of name.

You don't like HAVOC? I think it beat out FIERY DEATH STAR by a few votes.

How did balloons of death do in the voting?

 

[Fennis]

She's got it
Yeah, baby, she's got it

 

[lod01]

So ya set up shop above the clouds on Venus. Then what do you do? This-->

 

[StrikeS2k]

So ya set up shop above the clouds on Venus. Then what do you do? This-->

Nah, you look out the windows at Earth and realize what an idiot you were.

 

[Limp Ditka]

She's got it

Yeah, baby, she's got it

 

[[icon]]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

 

[shader]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

Yeah it sounds really awesome but it's just a research station. I don't think many people are going to be lining up to go live in a big blimp above the hostile Venus environment for a long period of time.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

Scientists think Venus has the largest deposits of metals in the solar system.

 

[NCCommish]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

Scientists think Venus has the largest deposits of metals in the solar system.

Can't get to them. Current record for something surviving on Venus' surface is still under 2 hours. It rains sulfuric acid and the surface pressure is 90 times what it is on Earth. Still not sure about this cloud operation as lightning is constant in the atmosphere as are huge acid thunderstorms.

 

[joffer]

less talking. more doing.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Why not just do this above the clouds on Earf?

 

[trogg78]

Why not just do this above the clouds on Earf?

The Olive Garden of planets? No thanks.

 

[NCCommish]

Why not just do this above the clouds on Earf?

If ti went forward some how I would think a proof of concept would be attempted here first.

 

[AcerFC]

And what happens when your loon pops

 

[joffer]

his boy Elroy

 

[Mr. Retukes]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

The operation will be small enough not to be noticed, which is advantageous for everybody.

 

[spreagle]

Venus atmospheric pressure is 1 Earth atmosphere at around 50 km, and the temperature there is 90F which is pretty close to Earths You only have to move up a few thousand feet to get to Earths temperature. So when Venus is compared to Earth at apple to apple conditions ... 1 Earth atmosphere ... and maybe move Venus further from the sun to Earths orbit .... they are about the same. This is remarkable. Doesn't this mean that if Venus had a thinner atmosphere of pure carbon dioxide it would be about the same temperature as Earth?

I've always thought the hot temperature on Venus surface had to due with the pressure and susequent supercritical carbon dioxide conditions at the surface, not a CO2 runaway greenhouse effect like we hear about all the time. It is a greenhouse effect but a different type of greenhouse effect than can never happen on Earth. There is so much pressure there that the supercritical surface atmosphere has the consistency of a liquid (technically a supercritical fluid ... a gas and liquid at the same time). Liquids/supercritical fluids can't convect heat up from the surface to the upper atmosphere like a gas can, because they don't expand and rise as fast (on Earth convection accounts for 85% of heat rejection at the surface). So on Venus heat stays trapped near the surface because of that. And a supercritical fluid doesnt evaporate like our oceans (evaporation cools the oceans) it just transitions to a gas high in the atmosphere rather than evaporating to a gas. So heat stays trapped because of that too.

CO2 "runaway greenhouse effect" on Venus probably has more to due with physical properties of CO2 at high pressure rather than the photon heat trapping ability of CO2 (I'm not saying this doesnt do something I just dont know how to quantify it). I've looked all over tried to find real scientists describe the Venutian atmosphere like this but they never do ... they usually just say its poorly understood.

 

[Jack White]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

The operation will be small enough not to be noticed, which is advantageous for everybody.

Everybody except those of us who are forced to pay for this nonsense.

 

[NCCommish]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

The operation will be small enough not to be noticed, which is advantageous for everybody.

Everybody except those of us who are forced to pay for this nonsense.

NASA has a pretty decent ROI.

 

[NCCommish]

Venus atmospheric pressure is 1 Earth atmosphere at around 50 km, and the temperature there is 90F which is pretty close to Earths You only have to move up a few thousand feet to get to Earths temperature. So when Venus is compared to Earth at apple to apple conditions ... 1 Earth atmosphere ... and maybe move Venus further from the sun to Earths orbit .... they are about the same. This is remarkable. Doesn't this mean that if Venus had a thinner atmosphere of pure carbon dioxide it would be about the same temperature as Earth?

I've always thought the hot temperature on Venus surface had to due with the pressure and susequent supercritical carbon dioxide conditions at the surface, not a CO2 runaway greenhouse effect like we hear about all the time. It is a greenhouse effect but a different type of greenhouse effect than can never happen on Earth. There is so much pressure there that the supercritical surface atmosphere has the consistency of a liquid (technically a supercritical fluid ... a gas and liquid at the same time). Liquids/supercritical fluids can't convect heat up from the surface to the upper atmosphere like a gas can, because they don't expand and rise as fast (on Earth convection accounts for 85% of heat rejection at the surface). So on Venus heat stays trapped near the surface because of that. And a supercritical fluid doesnt evaporate like our oceans (evaporation cools the oceans) it just transitions to a gas high in the atmosphere rather than evaporating to a gas. So heat stays trapped because of that too.

CO2 "runaway greenhouse effect" on Venus probably has more to due with physical properties of CO2 at high pressure rather than the photon heat trapping ability of CO2 (I'm not saying this doesnt do something I just dont know how to quantify it). I've looked all over tried to find real scientists describe the Venutian atmosphere like this but they never do ... they usually just say its poorly understood.

No CO2 traps heat very efficiently even in our atmosphere.

 

[Jack White]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

The operation will be small enough not to be noticed, which is advantageous for everybody.

Everybody except those of us who are forced to pay for this nonsense.

NASA has a pretty decent ROI.

Steal-and-spend is not investment, but I would be interested in hearing why you say that.

 

[El Floppo]

wow- you are one negative dude. only things I've seen you post in here are anti-whatever. pretty boring- but the av makes it easy to recognize and skip.

 

[Jack White]

wow- you are one negative dude. only things I've seen you post in here are anti-whatever. pretty boring- but the av makes it easy to recognize and skip.

I am for some things, and against others. No different than anyone else.

As for skipping my posts, that is something I'm in favor of. It's a good example of voluntary association, another thing I support.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Venus atmospheric pressure is 1 Earth atmosphere at around 50 km, and the temperature there is 90F which is pretty close to Earths You only have to move up a few thousand feet to get to Earths temperature. So when Venus is compared to Earth at apple to apple conditions ... 1 Earth atmosphere ... and maybe move Venus further from the sun to Earths orbit .... they are about the same. This is remarkable. Doesn't this mean that if Venus had a thinner atmosphere of pure carbon dioxide it would be about the same temperature as Earth?

I've always thought the hot temperature on Venus surface had to due with the pressure and susequent supercritical carbon dioxide conditions at the surface, not a CO2 runaway greenhouse effect like we hear about all the time. It is a greenhouse effect but a different type of greenhouse effect than can never happen on Earth. There is so much pressure there that the supercritical surface atmosphere has the consistency of a liquid (technically a supercritical fluid ... a gas and liquid at the same time). Liquids/supercritical fluids can't convect heat up from the surface to the upper atmosphere like a gas can, because they don't expand and rise as fast (on Earth convection accounts for 85% of heat rejection at the surface). So on Venus heat stays trapped near the surface because of that. And a supercritical fluid doesnt evaporate like our oceans (evaporation cools the oceans) it just transitions to a gas high in the atmosphere rather than evaporating to a gas. So heat stays trapped because of that too.

CO2 "runaway greenhouse effect" on Venus probably has more to due with physical properties of CO2 at high pressure rather than the photon heat trapping ability of CO2 (I'm not saying this doesnt do something I just dont know how to quantify it). I've looked all over tried to find real scientists describe the Venutian atmosphere like this but they never do ... they usually just say its poorly understood.

In the article they say that the temperature at 30 miles up is 160F.

 

[spreagle]

Venus atmospheric pressure is 1 Earth atmosphere at around 50 km, and the temperature there is 90F which is pretty close to Earths You only have to move up a few thousand feet to get to Earths temperature. So when Venus is compared to Earth at apple to apple conditions ... 1 Earth atmosphere ... and maybe move Venus further from the sun to Earths orbit .... they are about the same. This is remarkable. Doesn't this mean that if Venus had a thinner atmosphere of pure carbon dioxide it would be about the same temperature as Earth?

I've always thought the hot temperature on Venus surface had to due with the pressure and susequent supercritical carbon dioxide conditions at the surface, not a CO2 runaway greenhouse effect like we hear about all the time. It is a greenhouse effect but a different type of greenhouse effect than can never happen on Earth. There is so much pressure there that the supercritical surface atmosphere has the consistency of a liquid (technically a supercritical fluid ... a gas and liquid at the same time). Liquids/supercritical fluids can't convect heat up from the surface to the upper atmosphere like a gas can, because they don't expand and rise as fast (on Earth convection accounts for 85% of heat rejection at the surface). So on Venus heat stays trapped near the surface because of that. And a supercritical fluid doesnt evaporate like our oceans (evaporation cools the oceans) it just transitions to a gas high in the atmosphere rather than evaporating to a gas. So heat stays trapped because of that too.

CO2 "runaway greenhouse effect" on Venus probably has more to due with physical properties of CO2 at high pressure rather than the photon heat trapping ability of CO2 (I'm not saying this doesnt do something I just dont know how to quantify it). I've looked all over tried to find real scientists describe the Venutian atmosphere like this but they never do ... they usually just say its poorly understood.

In the article they say that the temperature at 30 miles up is 160F.

Yup the article said that. Google the data yourself and see what you think. Or if 160F makes you feel good, just believe the article.

 

[GregR]

And what happens when your loon pops

Crash it on the Venusian clan castle troops.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

Scientists think Venus has the largest deposits of metals in the solar system.

Can't get to them. Current record for something surviving on Venus' surface is still under 2 hours. It rains sulfuric acid and the surface pressure is 90 times what it is on Earth. Still not sure about this cloud operation as lightning is constant in the atmosphere as are huge acid thunderstorms.

Robots down?

 

[NCCommish]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

Scientists think Venus has the largest deposits of metals in the solar system.

Can't get to them. Current record for something surviving on Venus' surface is still under 2 hours. It rains sulfuric acid and the surface pressure is 90 times what it is on Earth. Still not sure about this cloud operation as lightning is constant in the atmosphere as are huge acid thunderstorms.

Robots down?

That was a robot. It rains sulfuric acid. The surface temp is 863 deg Fahrenheit. The atmospheric pressure at the surface is 90 bar or 90 times as high as Earth surface pressure. Lead melts on the surface and is a liquid. We can't build anything right now that would survive long enough to do much mining.

 

[El Floppo]

it was still cool seeing that pic from the Ruskie robot that lasted a couple of hours before melting.

 

[NCCommish]

it was still cool seeing that pic from the Ruskie robot that lasted a couple of hours before melting.

Absolutely

 

[Sand]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

Scientists think Venus has the largest deposits of metals in the solar system.

Can't get to them. Current record for something surviving on Venus' surface is still under 2 hours. It rains sulfuric acid and the surface pressure is 90 times what it is on Earth. Still not sure about this cloud operation as lightning is constant in the atmosphere as are huge acid thunderstorms.

Robots down?

That was a robot. It rains sulfuric acid. The surface temp is 863 deg Fahrenheit. The atmospheric pressure at the surface is 90 bar or 90 times as high as Earth surface pressure. Lead melts on the surface and is a liquid. We can't build anything right now that would survive long enough to do much mining.

No doubt. I've done some Venus Lander work and just getting something to the surface is a terror. Getting something to survive for a while is a true challenge. I'm not sure how this idea would work with the hydrogen sulfide clouds well up into the atmosphere. Nasty, nasty place.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

Scientists think Venus has the largest deposits of metals in the solar system.

Can't get to them. Current record for something surviving on Venus' surface is still under 2 hours. It rains sulfuric acid and the surface pressure is 90 times what it is on Earth. Still not sure about this cloud operation as lightning is constant in the atmosphere as are huge acid thunderstorms.

Robots down?

That was a robot. It rains sulfuric acid. The surface temp is 863 deg Fahrenheit. The atmospheric pressure at the surface is 90 bar or 90 times as high as Earth surface pressure. Lead melts on the surface and is a liquid. We can't build anything right now that would survive long enough to do much mining.

Plenty of metals and glasses could survive it would just be finding the right mix to field something. We are talking 80 years from now anyway, fielding mining operations even further out.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

Scientists think Venus has the largest deposits of metals in the solar system.

Can't get to them. Current record for something surviving on Venus' surface is still under 2 hours. It rains sulfuric acid and the surface pressure is 90 times what it is on Earth. Still not sure about this cloud operation as lightning is constant in the atmosphere as are huge acid thunderstorms.

Robots down?

That was a robot. It rains sulfuric acid. The surface temp is 863 deg Fahrenheit. The atmospheric pressure at the surface is 90 bar or 90 times as high as Earth surface pressure. Lead melts on the surface and is a liquid. We can't build anything right now that would survive long enough to do much mining.

Okay, I get it. It's really hard to get things to survive on Venus. But people manage to live in Detroit (albeit barely), so I think this is a solvable problem.

 

[NCCommish]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

Scientists think Venus has the largest deposits of metals in the solar system.

Can't get to them. Current record for something surviving on Venus' surface is still under 2 hours. It rains sulfuric acid and the surface pressure is 90 times what it is on Earth. Still not sure about this cloud operation as lightning is constant in the atmosphere as are huge acid thunderstorms.

Robots down?

That was a robot. It rains sulfuric acid. The surface temp is 863 deg Fahrenheit. The atmospheric pressure at the surface is 90 bar or 90 times as high as Earth surface pressure. Lead melts on the surface and is a liquid. We can't build anything right now that would survive long enough to do much mining.

Okay, I get it. It's really hard to get things to survive on Venus. But people manage to live in Detroit (albeit barely), so I think this is a solvable problem.

Even Detroit is a little slice of heaven comparatively.

 

[Maik Jeaunz]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

Scientists think Venus has the largest deposits of metals in the solar system.

Can't get to them. Current record for something surviving on Venus' surface is still under 2 hours. It rains sulfuric acid and the surface pressure is 90 times what it is on Earth. Still not sure about this cloud operation as lightning is constant in the atmosphere as are huge acid thunderstorms.

Robots down?

That was a robot. It rains sulfuric acid. The surface temp is 863 deg Fahrenheit. The atmospheric pressure at the surface is 90 bar or 90 times as high as Earth surface pressure. Lead melts on the surface and is a liquid. We can't build anything right now that would survive long enough to do much mining.

does Chuck Norris have any grandkids?

 

[NCCommish]

at calling that a colony, or it being economically viable for anything outside a research station.

Scientists think Venus has the largest deposits of metals in the solar system.

Can't get to them. Current record for something surviving on Venus' surface is still under 2 hours. It rains sulfuric acid and the surface pressure is 90 times what it is on Earth. Still not sure about this cloud operation as lightning is constant in the atmosphere as are huge acid thunderstorms.

Robots down?

That was a robot. It rains sulfuric acid. The surface temp is 863 deg Fahrenheit. The atmospheric pressure at the surface is 90 bar or 90 times as high as Earth surface pressure. Lead melts on the surface and is a liquid. We can't build anything right now that would survive long enough to do much mining.

does Chuck Norris have any grandkids?

May be our only hope.