AAABatteries
Footballguy
Hawks hang on for the home and home split with both road teams winning. Happy to not see the SWC-ettes for a while.
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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Cliff Clavin
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
They are tough - seem to have a lot of young pieces. One thing that was noticeable was it didn't seem like there is anyone to throw the ball to on the block to get some easy post baskets.With yesterday's win, the Bucks have now matched their win total of last season (15) and have a few good looking young players in place for the future. With Parker out for the season, they're in a good position to mail it in and do some deals to position the team for the future. I'm surprisingly pleased with Jason Kidd so far. Did not have high hopes for him in Milwaukee.I think most fans are optimistic, certainly moreso than I. For me, there are too many question marks that have to break in the Bucks favor to win much more than last season. As I said, 25+ is a tough call right now, but the realistic me would go under if forced to choose.A little shocked that MIL faithful would be pessimistic on the tails of the opener. Yeah, they blew a big lead. But they had a big lead.
O.J. looked good, Sanders didn't die or kill anybody, and every other important piece of the team is just getting started. They'll only get better as the season goes. I think they fall a little short of 40, but way over 25. They were at 15 last year because the whole team was fat, or dead, or high-school aged, AND they were tanking. None of that's going on any more.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
The game was in doubt for awhile, but the Knicks hung on to lose.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Instinctive
Footballguy
Westbrook hit an elbow jumper with Rondo all over him late in fourth tonight. I said out loud, "Good shot, but he'll take a stupid one from there later that screws them."
End of the game, he turned it over guarded by Dirk (lol) and then with Rondo all over him he pulled up and air balled an elbow jumper. Sealed the MAVS win IMO. Just a stupid thing to do with no Chandler while Adams and Ibaka were destroyig us inside.
End of the game, he turned it over guarded by Dirk (lol) and then with Rondo all over him he pulled up and air balled an elbow jumper. Sealed the MAVS win IMO. Just a stupid thing to do with no Chandler while Adams and Ibaka were destroyig us inside.
Moe.
Footballguy
The last six minutes were a disaster. All bad Russ. Ibaka had his best game of the season and only took one shot in the fourth.
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Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Excellent lower body strength; offensively, can keep inside position once established. Better at setting up deep to accept a dump-off pass from a driving PG than as the screener on high pick-and-rolls. Strong enough to finish through contact.
Good speed for a man of his girth, but stretch fours will beat him down the floor.
No shooting range. Lousy FT shooting form.
A bit of a foul magnet on defense. Quick feet for his size, but doesn't have great shot-blocking instincts and fouls a lot when contesting shots. Has trouble figuring out when to rotate out and close on a shooter and when to stay home and keep rebounding position; because of this, he can get caught in no-man's-land and foul when rejoining the play.
He seems to be a pretty good guy. He was an immediately-eligible grad transfer to KU and there for only one year, but his teammates were crazy about him. The bench exploded when he scored. Stood out as a vocal guy on a roster of pretty laid-back dudes for high level college basketball.
Won't ever be a starter, but could be a guy who comes off the bench to get a couple dunks and tough rebounds to get the team going.
Abraham
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
HOU waived Black instead of Dorsey because they knew another team would pick up Black and they would no longer be on the hook for Black's guaranteed salary. Dorsey has a guaranteed deal through 2016 that no other team would pick up. They would be paying Dorsey not to play if they cut him.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
FWIW, when Kobe was announced out for that GSW game, the line did not move. Make of that what you will.
SWC
Bromigo
they hawks are a good team i think the bucks thing is that they are so long they really hurt teams that shoot well which unfortunately got hurt a little with jabari going out long story short i remember thinking what i just said the first time they played the heat and they made bosch who is a pretty good shooter go totally cold and chuck up airballs it was great to watch take that to the bank brohans
the moops
Footballguy
I'm not ready to totally disagree yet, and he may very well be a great coach, but at this point there is zero reason to state that is in fact a great coach.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
SWC
Bromigo
that will be a good game bromigo kidd really has the bucks playing tough they just do not quit i think maybe only one or two blowouts this year otherwise they have been there in the fourth it is quite a turnaround that said i still think cleveland will put it together it just might take a year and waiters is horrible i would trade that guy pronto take that to the bank
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Black was a better college player than Dorsey. Fwiw.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
The conferences are slowly and quietly balancing out just a little bit. As noted here the West's interconference record is close to .600 after being at .700 earlier in the season, and the top four in the East are 9-2 (Raptors, that link has it wrong), 6-2 (Hawks), 7-2 (Wizards) and 7-5 (Bulls) against the West. In fact those four have a 5-2 record against the top four in the West. And note that none of these teams are the one that has LeBron James, so you can add another contender to the mix, current struggles aside.
There's still a significant gap between the conferences, but it's almost entirely from 6-14, not at the top. That's not ideal, but IMO it's also not the sort of crisis that warrants blowing up the entire model like people were talking about a month ago.
There's still a significant gap between the conferences, but it's almost entirely from 6-14, not at the top. That's not ideal, but IMO it's also not the sort of crisis that warrants blowing up the entire model like people were talking about a month ago.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
That was quite a ride last night. Best win of the year for the Wiz. It's exhausting playing the Rockets and watching their heat map come to life against your team, with everything at the rim or behind the arc. Well, almost everything- Josh Smith looked like Detroit/Atlanta Josh Smith. Gonna be interesting to see if they can find a way to make it work.Harden with 9 points in the last 19 seconds of the loss against Washington. The old "foul and shoot threes" strategy nearly worked.
tom22406
Footballguy
Great road win that they almost gave away.Hit some huge clutch free throws to hold them off after some really terrible offensive sets in the 4th to let the Rockets creep back in after being up 18.That was quite a ride last night. Best win of the year for the Wiz. It's exhausting playing the Rockets and watching their heat map come to life against your team, with everything at the rim or behind the arc. Well, almost everything- Josh Smith looked like Detroit/Atlanta Josh Smith. Gonna be interesting to see if they can find a way to make it work.Harden with 9 points in the last 19 seconds of the loss against Washington. The old "foul and shoot threes" strategy nearly worked.
Beal was outstanding.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
I think the one big difference is guarding the rim and how critical that is in the NBA versus International ball. Until they/he figure out some way to do that (or trade for help), they're going to continue to be 5th the best team in the East. They're offense can still get better which could get them out of the 4-5 seed, but unless they get their paint defense straightened out it'll be a short trip in the playoffs.Bobcat10 said:
Granted they still have moves they can make, but they almost need 2 defensive bigs to make one effective center (something like Wright and Dalembert/pick you're two favorite backups playing 18-20 minutes on bad teams).
Blatt isn't the problem, IMO. I've defended Lebron big time over the years, but I sure looks like he's refusing to shift out of third gear most nights these days ("chill mode"), and he also engineered the Love trade. it shouldn't surprise anyone that the defense is awful with Love patrolling the paint, and that they aren't getting maximum value out of Love's offense with two dominant guys like Lebron and Kyrie controlling the ball all the time.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
The 9-2 record for the Raptors is pretty deceiving. They're 2-1 against top teams (W vs LAC & MEM, L vs DAL). The rest of the wins have come vs low end teams (DENx2, UTAHx2, SAC, PHO and OKC without Durant and Westbrook). Their next 3 should be entertaining; POR, GS, PHO.
I wouldn't slot any East team in the top 5 of the west yet.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I think before the season most people believed that both Love and Irving couldn't be as bad defensively as their detractors claimed. I remember at the time of the trade there were a lot of writers talking about how Love had improved in recent years to become simply a mediocre defender rather than a terrible one, and I assume almost everyone thought Irving's D would improve simply because he'd give more effort now that he was playing for a relevant team. So far, at least, it seems that their worst detractors nailed it.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'm not sure I would either, but I think it's closer than many people realize. Vegas thinks so too- Wiz were only +4 yesterday in Houston and are only +4.5 in Dallas tonight on a back to back. Fun fact- as of right now the Rockets would be a lower seed in the East than they are in the West. Obviously their schedule would be a little softer if they actually played in the East, but still not something I think anyone would have expected to ever be the case at any spot this season.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Love is slow afoot. Just by my untrained eye, he's not horrible 1on1 in the post. He's not good at helping out, so when you don't have another presence in the lane, it's a glaring weakness. Unfortunately, every team doesn't roll out post 4's. Note that Blatt held Love out the entire 4th quarter against the Magic. It was a defensive/matchup choice.
Waiters also played great defense that night....Lebron even went directly over to him after the game to commend him. His problem is consistency and pouting...not sure that will ever be fixed.
Waiters also played great defense that night....Lebron even went directly over to him after the game to commend him. His problem is consistency and pouting...not sure that will ever be fixed.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
I'm buying this.
What I don't know, is if he's "saving" up for later, if his weird off season diet is to blame, or if he's truly losing a step that he will never regain.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I don't think there's any doubt he's been off on both sides of the ball.
I think it's a bit of both. He's getting older and you'd assume he'd lose some quickness and have to adjust, but he's also played a ridiculous amount of basketball over the last four seasons, culminating with a whupping in the Finals from a more rested team, so I assume he knows he has to hold back quite a bit in the regular season to have a shot in the postseason at this point.
tom22406
Footballguy
Certainly could be the case with him.Just doesn't look as explosive or as aggressive to me so maybe he is just saving some gas for later.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
That's the thing though...without the rim presence, teams with a good PG and a serviceable PF or C can pick and roll Irving/Love to death. Love's passable 1v1, but once you force him (or Irving) to make a decision 25 feet from the basket the team defense falls apart without someone in the lane that can at least alter the occasional shot.
The interesting thing is that their starting 5 defense is noticeably better with Thompson on the court for Varejao (and that's whether the 5th wheel is Waiters or Marion), but any of the 2nd string units with Thompson are just horrid defensively (which makes him look rather meh defensively). If that can actually continue, then they may not be as far as people think once they get Irving back. For whatever both those lineups have worked and would be among the top 30 or so 5 man lineups in the league.
Dondante
Footballguy
LeBron hand picked the team and the additions including the coach. By coasting or saving himself for the stretch run he is just being typical entitlement LeBron.
How could anyone hope to succeed with the self appointed alpha male basically mailing it in and suggesting that the team needs to get better (but not LeBron)?
What he needs to do is lead by example. Only problem is he's too talented to do that. He's much too entitled to accept responsibility for his poor play (read: poor for a leader) and he's certainly too proud to admit that Riley and Spolestra deserve the lions share of the credit for the Miami success.
How could anyone hope to succeed with the self appointed alpha male basically mailing it in and suggesting that the team needs to get better (but not LeBron)?
What he needs to do is lead by example. Only problem is he's too talented to do that. He's much too entitled to accept responsibility for his poor play (read: poor for a leader) and he's certainly too proud to admit that Riley and Spolestra deserve the lions share of the credit for the Miami success.
Abraham
Footballguy
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Are you asking how anyone could expect the most successful athlete of the new millennium "to succeed"?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
You'll all be a lot happier if you just put that guy on ignore. If you don't believe me now, just wait for the stream of antisemitic and otherwise bizarre personal attacks that will follow my post mentioning him ...
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
I think this is pretty accurate. Hard to fault the Cavs for going all in on the Love deal, but I know many of us who suggested the Cavs should wait pointed out the value of Wiggins energy and defensive ability.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I kind of agree but I still think there's something to be concerned about here. They'll obviously still easily make the playoffs, and I think come April they'll be considered among the 4-5 teams with the best shot at it. But you'd be hard-pressed to find a champ or even a Finals participant that was only 18-12 after 30 games.
The other problem is that they play in a five team conference, so finishing with the 4 or 5 seed almost means adding another round to your playoff slate. That hurts their cause too- a big reason they had and still have such short odds to win the title was because they play in the East. But if the playoffs started today they'd face Chicago, Toronto and then Washington/Atlanta, all without home court advantage. No team in the NBA would be favored to survive that. And they're not close to moving out of that rut, either- they're already 3.5 back of the 4 seed and 4 back of the 2/3 seed.
Plenty of time left to straighten out but there's definitely some warning signs at this point..
Instinctive
Footballguy
Going to Mavs game tonight. After watching Rondo dominate Westbrook in the 4th quarter, very excited about the John Wall battle.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
I don't there's a chance in the world a healthy Cavs team (or anyone in the East) can beat a healthy Bulls team this year. I don't think the LeBron Heat would get by this year's Bulls team. Unreal how much Butler has improved. Their frontcourt depth (and varying talents of all 4 guys) is just insane.
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Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
I agree Love looks slow. Wouldn't be surprised if he has a knee injury or something. Also thought Varejao looked like a slug out there...thought he'd be more of a presence.
SWC
Bromigo
hey listen here brohan i hold down the dumb guy spot in this thread maybe go to the malaysian jet thread you can have that one but round these parts i am the sheriff of stupid and i am not giving up the title but that was a good try take that to the bank bromigo
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Lebron out tonight with left knee soreness...this could also be an issue as he's been nursing for a while now.
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