Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Cliff Clavin
- Start date
JMon348
Footballguy
You are not that dumb. Kobe has played more NBA seasons, more regular season games, and more playoff games.
the moops
Footballguy
Now if the Hornets beat the Lakers, according to these boards, you better believe that Kobe's legacy will forever be tarnished.
JMon348
Footballguy
I know Kobe is a more popular subject than Duncan but how come they are dissected so differently? Duncan gets no blame if his #1 seeded team becomes the third team in history to lose in the first round? Take a moment and imagine the Lakers losing in the first round as a 1st seed. Would this board survive such a thing? Kobe would move out of everyone's top 50 alltime list.
Shtaym Syek
Footballguy
Thread Killer
Footballguy
The guy's won 4 championships. He could retire in the middle of Game 5 and still moonwalk into the hall of fame.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Just my opinion:I see many Lakers fans glorify Kobe over the team and consider the playoff performance of "his team" a referendum on his personal skill level (see many comments that he's "one behind Jordan" and "5 ahead of LeBron" for example). Most of us think this is silly and annoying considering that basketball is a team sport and there's never been a player in the history of basketball good enough to win a title with a universally mediocre supporting cast. If a Lakers team with Bryant lost in the first round, I think most of us would know that in truth it wasn't really a grand statement on how good Kobe is. I personally wouldn't think much less of him in the grand scheme of things. But we'd enjoy the irony of knowing that Lakers' fans ridiculous criteria for individual basketball greatness now is making their hero look worse than he really is, not better.
Abraham
Footballguy
Exactly. A Kobe led Lakers team DID lose in the first round while Bryant was in his prime. Duncan is at the end of a long and accomplished career, playing with a team that is reeling from injuries that ended up facing the "wrong team" at the wrong time (a la both Denver beating Seattle and GS beating Dallas).
I disagree. While having the best record in their conference may undermine this a bit, the 93/94 Rockets were a "universally mediocre supporting cast." They had two players over the league average PER of 15 (Hakeem at 25.3 and Otis Thorpe at 16.1). They gave regular minutes to SEVEN players that had a PER b/w 7 and 12.
Last edited by a moderator:
JbizzleMan
Footballguy
That's part of being a Laker fan. The same reason why we're in an "NBA Thread" that only gets its subtitle changed when the Lakers lose. The fact is, the Lakers have been a good team for a very long time and have one of the best players to ever step on the court. Just when the haters think Kobe is going to crumble and never win another NBA championship without Shaq, he gets to 3 straight Finals and wins two rings in a row."They're not trying to tackle you unless you're carrying the ball."
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
And 7 footers usually break down a lot quicker chuckers who stand outside.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Interesting. Hadn't really thought about that one. I don't know that I totally agree that Thorpe, Cassell, Horry and Kenny Smith were all mediocre- and that's what I meant by universally mediocre, that every single one of the other players was mediocre. But that's the worst title-winning team outside it's star that I know of. I just went to their page at basketball reference for a quick look, and it's pretty ugly other than Hakeem.
Abraham
Footballguy
Outside of the Pistons recent winner, you have to go back a LONG way (1979?) to find a title team without at least two guys who will likely get HOF consideration.LA - Gasol and Kobe, Shaq and KobeSA - Duncan, Manu, Parker, RobinsonBos - Rondo, Pierce, ALlen, GarnettChi - Jordan, PippenMia - Shaq and Wade (arguably a "weak" team outside of Wade, although IIRC Shaq did play well).Houston's other team - Drexler and Hakeemn
timschochet
Footballguy
IMO, it will be heavily affected. Right now Duncan is rightly considered one of the greatest power forwards to ever play the game (perhaps the best.) If, however, he loses this series, he'll be nothing. It's all people will ever remember. 20 years from now, when somebody brings up Tim Duncan, the reply will be "That loser? I think I remember him. Didn't his team lose to Memphis?"
BRONG
FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY
How do you not understand this? Here, this is as simple as I can make it:You did not agree with my take on the Lakers.I don't understand this post, but fine. If you want to bet $100 on the same conditions, we'll do that too. If you think betting against the Lakers is easy money, take your chances, I'm game.Wrong, I accepted that stupid challenge the minute I saw it. What you really mean to say is: another board member jumped all over my silly proposition because he knew it was easy money and wanted to take advantage. And now that his actions have opened my eyes a bit, I am unwilling to back up my comments...and especially so because I am about to get off the hook altogether, thank god.He accepted, you didn't. And the caveat was there from the start.WTF does moops have to do with anything, it was me who you challenged. Then later, with a caveat.If it was a one team vs. one team bet of course I would. But with this bet, the Lakers vs. the World, I can demand the injury proviso. Still good odds for Moops.
So much so that you publicly challenged me to a $100 wager.
Another poster tried to accept your offer (and here's where it gets really confusing to YOU), even though he had nothing to do with OUR conversation.
For some unknown reason, you took his offer, and then tried to renege on ours. Total backtrack, is what happened.
For the record, I think you know exactly what went down but are trying to slither your way out of this.
Anyway, it looks like you've accepted, so consider this confirmation.
I will give you some leniency on your injury caveat, but we should let the FFA decide (vote) if that happens.
Last edited by a moderator:
Thread Killer
Footballguy
... and commit hate crimes and rape entire villages and kill babies.
timschochet
Footballguy
Thanks for explaining it. I was happy to accept the Moops' bet, and I'm happy to accept yours as well. Consider our bet firm. If the Lakers do not win the championship this year, (and do not suffer significant injuries) I will owe you $100. If the Lakers do win it all, you will owe me $100. Same exact bet as I have with Moops. Do you accept?How do you not understand this? Here, this is as simple as I can make it:You did not agree with my take on the Lakers.So much so that you publicly challenged me to a $100 wager.Another poster tried to accept your offer (and here's where it gets really confusing to YOU), even though he had nothing to do with OUR conversation.For some unknown reason, you took his offer, and then backed out of ours. Or I should say, backtracked. That's it.For the record, I think you know exactly what went down but are trying to slither your way out of this.Anyway, are you going to back up your statement, or renege on the deal?I don't understand this post, but fine. If you want to bet $100 on the same conditions, we'll do that too. If you think betting against the Lakers is easy money, take your chances, I'm game.Wrong, I accepted that stupid challenge the minute I saw it. What you really mean to say is: another board member jumped all over my silly proposition because he knew it was easy money and wanted to take advantage. And now that his actions have opened my eyes a bit, I am unwilling to back up my comments...and especially so because I am about to get off the hook altogether, thank god.He accepted, you didn't. And the caveat was there from the start.WTF does moops have to do with anything, it was me who you challenged. Then later, with a caveat.If it was a one team vs. one team bet of course I would. But with this bet, the Lakers vs. the World, I can demand the injury proviso. Still good odds for Moops.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I blame Moops' drinking for this entire misunderstanding.How do you not understand this? Here, this is as simple as I can make it:You did not agree with my take on the Lakers.I don't understand this post, but fine. If you want to bet $100 on the same conditions, we'll do that too. If you think betting against the Lakers is easy money, take your chances, I'm game.Wrong, I accepted that stupid challenge the minute I saw it. What you really mean to say is: another board member jumped all over my silly proposition because he knew it was easy money and wanted to take advantage. And now that his actions have opened my eyes a bit, I am unwilling to back up my comments...and especially so because I am about to get off the hook altogether, thank god.He accepted, you didn't. And the caveat was there from the start.WTF does moops have to do with anything, it was me who you challenged. Then later, with a caveat.If it was a one team vs. one team bet of course I would. But with this bet, the Lakers vs. the World, I can demand the injury proviso. Still good odds for Moops.
So much so that you publicly challenged me to a $100 wager.
Another poster tried to accept your offer (and here's where it gets really confusing to YOU), even though he had nothing to do with OUR conversation.
For some unknown reason, you took his offer, and then backed out of ours. Or I should say, backtracked. That's it.
For the record, I think you know exactly what went down but are trying to slither your way out of this.
Anyway, are you going to back up your statement, or renege on the deal?
the moops
Footballguy
Yep
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
say what now?
BRONG
FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY
Cool, so we're on, tim.
BTW, I edited, but too late, a part where if there is a major injury to the Lakers, then we should let the FFA decide (vote) if the bet is nullified.
Mind you, half the reason I don't believe the Lakers can get through this, is exactly because of those issues and age, but whatever.
BTW, I edited, but too late, a part where if there is a major injury to the Lakers, then we should let the FFA decide (vote) if the bet is nullified.
Mind you, half the reason I don't believe the Lakers can get through this, is exactly because of those issues and age, but whatever.
timschochet
Footballguy
That's fine. I trust the FFA. I'm not going to make an issue out of injuries unless it's pretty clear. I guarantee right now that I will not use that as a cheap excuse to get out of the bet. It would have to be a legitimate injury that really did make a significant difference in outcome.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
+250 to +280.Congrats on the free money.Anyone have a current line on the Lakers to win it all this year?
JMon348
Footballguy
I agree with you.The reason I brought this up is Bill Simmons' argument of Duncan vs Kobe. He ranks Duncan higher than Kobe mainly using the argument that Duncan would have never let his team not make the playoffs like Kobe's 2005 Lakers. It's a terrible argument because of what the Lakers had to deal with that year. It could easily be said that Kobe would never let his number one seeded Lakers lose in the first round. I don't think this single series greatly effects his legacy, but its another argument for those placing him lower than others. This would be the 5th time a Duncan led team has had home court advantage and lost the series. It's a ***** in his armor but doesn't take away his top 10 player of all time status.
timschochet
Footballguy
It's only free money if they don't win it all.+250 to +280.Congrats on the free money.Anyone have a current line on the Lakers to win it all this year?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'm gonna guess that you don't gamble on sports very much.ETA: This was kinda dooshy by me. Lemme explain. I take it the bet is on the Lakers to win it all or not, with Moops getting something close to even money or 1-2 at worst. If that's the case, all he has to do is bet on the Lakers to win it all at a sportsbook and he's guaranteed a profit.It's only free money if they don't win it all.+250 to +280.Congrats on the free money.Anyone have a current line on the Lakers to win it all this year?
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet
Footballguy
Very rarely. I understand that I'm offering much better odds than Vegas here, though.I'm gonna guess that you don't gamble on sports very much.It's only free money if they don't win it all.+250 to +280.Congrats on the free money.Anyone have a current line on the Lakers to win it all this year?
whitem0nkey
Footballguy
Frank Vogel: “We feel like if we win this game tonight, we’ll win the series,”
timschochet
Footballguy
I get it. Interesting. I wonder if he'll do it. I'm betting he won't.I'm gonna guess that you don't gamble on sports very much.ETA: This was kinda dooshy by me. Lemme explain. I take it the bet is on the Lakers to win it all or not, with Moops getting something close to even money or 1-2 at worst. If that's the case, all he has to do is bet on the Lakers to win it all at a sportsbook and he's guaranteed a profit.It's only free money if they don't win it all.+250 to +280.Congrats on the free money.Anyone have a current line on the Lakers to win it all this year?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I made a similar bet with Gunz. I haven't done this yet but I will after the Hornets series ends. I suspect that the line won't move much, as most everyone expects the Lakers to win this series, given the fact that they've pulled this routine of going to 2-2 against a lesser opponent many times in the past and won the series every single time.I get it. Interesting. I wonder if he'll do it. I'm betting he won't.I'm gonna guess that you don't gamble on sports very much.ETA: This was kinda dooshy by me. Lemme explain. I take it the bet is on the Lakers to win it all or not, with Moops getting something close to even money or 1-2 at worst. If that's the case, all he has to do is bet on the Lakers to win it all at a sportsbook and he's guaranteed a profit.It's only free money if they don't win it all.+250 to +280.Congrats on the free money.Anyone have a current line on the Lakers to win it all this year?
timschochet
Footballguy
Why so funny? Every game has been close. And even if they had not been, and Indiana was heavily overmatched, this is exactly what I would want my coach to say and believe.Frank Vogel: "We feel like if we win this game tonight, we'll win the series,"
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
If you win - Moops would profit $150-180 (depending on the line he takes)If Moops wins - Moops breaks even.It's only free money if they don't win it all.+250 to +280.Congrats on the free money.Anyone have a current line on the Lakers to win it all this year?
timschochet
Footballguy
Anyhow, it makes no difference to me whether or not Moops and Brong want to make a fast buck on these bets. If that's what they want to do, more power to them. I will be happy to collect my winnings.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Even more money for the Moops!
Joe Summer
Footballguy
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
Shtaym Syek
Footballguy
*()#%@_^*#&U*#%U*()U*)@#%@U*)#%UJ*()#F*#FU*)@#@U*(*)%%*()@
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Is Tobias still in here claiming that Lebron had a good supporting cast in Cleveland?
I have no idea what I might have said in the past. His supporting cast was not particularly good. It wasn't terrible, either- you don't win 60 games if everyone else on the team sucks. Anyway, shouldn't you be ranting about global warming or Obama's job approval numbers?
Moe.
Footballguy
Seems like a lot to me too. Memphis just looks like a better team right now.Grizzlies +6.5 currently. I get that it's a must win for the spurs and it's in San Antonio. I also wouldn't be surprsied to see the Spurs win... but 6.5?!
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I don't think it's funny either. I have a bad feeling about this game and have become a big fan of Vogel.Why so funny? Every game has been close. And even if they had not been, and Indiana was heavily overmatched, this is exactly what I would want my coach to say and believe.Frank Vogel: "We feel like if we win this game tonight, we'll win the series,"
Britney Spears
guest speaker
IMO big men fall apart faster, and more drastically. I wouldn't say Kobe plays a position where longevity is rare. Other than Kareem, I can't think of many big men that aged well. There are a lot of guards that play into their late 30's. Duncan had to bang around in the paint against guys like Shaq. Kobe had to stand and watch the Bruce Bowen's of the league at the three point line. I'm fairly certain that Duncan has taken much more abuse than Bryant. Except here in the FFA, of course.
Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
He's a worse player now, Mike Brown is an amazing coach or he still doesn't have a good supporting cast with two all star teammates. Which is it?Is Tobias still in here claiming that Lebron had a good supporting cast in Cleveland?
Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
at the guys who pretend its no big deal that the Spurs are destined for a historic playoff humiliation.Tim Duncan's legacy won't be tarnished but in case you all were holding out hope Duncan would be remembered as a better player than Kobe that ship has sailed.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
Many people think Tim Duncan is the greatest PF of all time.I've yet to hear a single person claim Kobe is the greatest SG of all time. Heck, there's still lots of people who don't think Kobe is even the best SG in Laker's franchise history.Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
Is there a certain law that I'm not aware of that says the best 5 players of all time must be a PG, SG, SF, PF and a C.
Last edited by a moderator:
whitem0nkey
Footballguy
first the pacers are a good team I don't think they are a below 500 team and should win 46+ games next year. they attack the Bulls extremely well, but the bulls have not yet played one good game. I think tonight we should see a bulls team that will stretch the defense more and pressure to force some fast breaks. he reminds me of baghdad bob with those comments. he had another one where they asked what he thought about the Bulls fans taking over the Conseco Fieldhouse and he responded as if the stadium was pack of pacer fans.I don't think it's funny either. I have a bad feeling about this game and have become a big fan of Vogel.Why so funny? Every game has been close. And even if they had not been, and Indiana was heavily overmatched, this is exactly what I would want my coach to say and believe.Frank Vogel: "We feel like if we win this game tonight, we'll win the series,"
JMon348
Footballguy
Now opposite end of the spectrum. If the Spurs come back in this series then go on to win the title, with Duncan giving them the same contributions, is his legacy enhanced?
How about Shaq? Say he comes back and gives the Celtics 24 minutes, averaging 10pts and 7rbs, or close to that, and Boston win the title for his fifth. Does he move up anyone's hypothetical list? Does anything these older guys do effect their legacy/place in history, good or bad?
How about Shaq? Say he comes back and gives the Celtics 24 minutes, averaging 10pts and 7rbs, or close to that, and Boston win the title for his fifth. Does he move up anyone's hypothetical list? Does anything these older guys do effect their legacy/place in history, good or bad?
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Why are you insinuating that the Spurs roster is "universally mediocre" outside of Duncan? Ginobili finished 17th in the NBA in PER this year, Tony Parker was 27th. Kobe was blasted for losing in the first round in back-to-back seasons against a heavily favored Suns team with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown in the starting lineup. Yet Duncan gets a free pass for losing with "universally mediocre" Ginobili and Parker? WTF?Similar threads
