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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (4 Viewers)

'8ebok24 said:
'Juxtatarot said:
'8ebok24 said:
If the Spurs come back in this series then go on to win the title, with Duncan giving them the same contributions, is his legacy enhanced?
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In my opinion, his legacy is set regardless. Another title won't change it.
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So no matter what he does the rest of his career, good or bad, he won't move up or down your hypothetical all time list?
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Well, if he leads the Spurs to multiple additional championships and averaged 25 & 10, or something, it would go up. That's not happening of course. If they lose to Memphis this year and he never has a career resurgence, I will most remember him as the player he was in his prime.
 
'Britney Spears said:
'8ebok24 said:
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310425029http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200605060PHO.htmlIs Duncan too old that nothing he does from this point forward matters? 6 points, 7 rebounds in a must win game?Accomplishment for Kobe that he's played longer than Duncan, yet doesn't look as "old"? Especially playing a position where longevity is rare?I already have Kobe above Duncan on my all time list, but does the recent success of Kobe and Duncan's fall from grace move anyone's ranking of them?
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IMO big men fall apart faster, and more drastically. I wouldn't say Kobe plays a position where longevity is rare. Other than Kareem, I can't think of many big men that aged well. There are a lot of guards that play into their late 30's. Duncan had to bang around in the paint against guys like Shaq. Kobe had to stand and watch the Bruce Bowen's of the league at the three point line. I'm fairly certain that Duncan has taken much more abuse than Bryant. Except here in the FFA, of course.
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Duncan has obviously slowed down but I don't think he's totally broken. I'd still call him the 1st or 2nd best player on the #1 seeded team in the West. He might make an All NBA team this year and last year averaged 18-10 during the regular season and 20-10 in the playoffs.Looking briefly Russell, Chamberlain, both Malones, Barkley, David Robinson all had very good years in their mid 30's.
 
'Juxtatarot said:
'8ebok24 said:
'Juxtatarot said:
'8ebok24 said:
If the Spurs come back in this series then go on to win the title, with Duncan giving them the same contributions, is his legacy enhanced?
Click to expand...
In my opinion, his legacy is set regardless. Another title won't change it.
Click to expand...
So no matter what he does the rest of his career, good or bad, he won't move up or down your hypothetical all time list?
Click to expand...
Well, if he leads the Spurs to multiple additional championships and averaged 25 & 10, or something, it would go up. That's not happening of course. If they lose to Memphis this year and he never has a career resurgence, I will most remember him as the player he was in his prime.
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Agreed. Greatest PF of all time, IMO.
 
Right now both games look to be blowouts, and I expect the Lakers to win comfortably tonight as well. (at least, I hope so.)

Is there any sport that has as much home court advantage as the NBA playoffs? Most teams just play so much better at home. It always amazes me how different they look.

ETA- And that's why the spread might seem large for the Spurs tommorow night. Because history suggests that they will win comfortably at home.

 
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'RedRaiders said:
'saintfool said:
'No. 16 said:
Bigger upset?06-07 Warriors over Mavs or Grizzlies over Spurs?
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warriors. this is a much better griz team and they play in a much better division too.
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Spurs were only -320 for the series IIRC. That is really low for a 1. Dallas won 60 some games that year. Warriors was a huge upset but in both cases the 8th seed dominated. No fluke here.
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i agree. i don't see how you anyone can think a team that finished 2 games over .500 can compare with a team that finished 10 games over it. nevermind the fact they tanked a couple of games at the end of season to make sure they played SA. what's interesting to me is to think that they might be better without Gay than with him. and i like Rudy a lot.
 
The way this first half has looked at times, Chicago should be up by 25. But somehow Indy has managed to stay within striking distance.

 
Pacers hanging tough, but Bulls doing a nice job scoring everytime Indy tries to make a run. Keeping the lead around 10

And Rose looks 100%

 
'8ebok24 said:
Now opposite end of the spectrum. If the Spurs come back in this series then go on to win the title, with Duncan giving them the same contributions, is his legacy enhanced? How about Shaq? Say he comes back and gives the Celtics 24 minutes, averaging 10pts and 7rbs, or close to that, and Boston win the title for his fifth. Does he move up anyone's hypothetical list? Does anything these older guys do effect their legacy/place in history, good or bad?
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Shaq's career is over. What he's doing now has no bearing on his legacy. His body has failed him. what he's doing now is simply because he can't let go. Hard to fault him for that. It seems that Duncan is heading that direction. I would put him that far yet, but IMO he's also at the stage of his career where he will never be a #1 option again on offense. He's still a very dependable defender, but he's not as impactful as he was there either If he somehow found a fountain of youth, and led the Spurs on a deep run, it would be impressive. However, I don't think it would change his standing as an all time great. For better or worse, players reputations are set in their primes IMO. As I said earlier, these big men take a beating. These are giant men and their legs and knees are abused. I would ask you, do you count Michael Jordans Wizard years against him? Some do. Some don't.
 
'Britney Spears said:
'8ebok24 said:
Now opposite end of the spectrum. If the Spurs come back in this series then go on to win the title, with Duncan giving them the same contributions, is his legacy enhanced?

How about Shaq? Say he comes back and gives the Celtics 24 minutes, averaging 10pts and 7rbs, or close to that, and Boston win the title for his fifth. Does he move up anyone's hypothetical list? Does anything these older guys do effect their legacy/place in history, good or bad?
Click to expand...
Shaq's career is over. What he's doing now has no bearing on his legacy. His body has failed him. what he's doing now is simply because he can't let go. Hard to fault him for that. It seems that Duncan is heading that direction. I would put him that far yet, but IMO he's also at the stage of his career where he will never be a #1 option again on offense. He's still a very dependable defender, but he's not as impactful as he was there either If he somehow found a fountain of youth, and led the Spurs on a deep run, it would be impressive. However, I don't think it would change his standing as an all time great. For better or worse, players reputations are set in their primes IMO.

As I said earlier, these big men take a beating. These are giant men and their legs and knees are abused.

I would ask you, do you count Michael Jordans Wizard years against him? Some do. Some don't.
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Who does? Nobody I know or have read.Athletes stay on too long, and in the case of the great ones, it very rarely affects their legacy. Nobody who considers Muhammad Ali one of the greatest boxers of all time remembers his sad and pathetic last fight against Trevor Berbick. I don't even think Brett Favre's last couple of seasons will affect his legacy in any meaningful way (though I suppose had he won a SB in 2009 it would have helped him.)

 
'Mr. PadresLakers said:
'Juxtatarot said:
'8ebok24 said:
If the Spurs come back in this series then go on to win the title, with Duncan giving them the same contributions, is his legacy enhanced?
Click to expand...
In my opinion, his legacy is set regardless. Another title won't change it.
Click to expand...
:lmao: Ridiculous
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Are you really this dense?Duncan has cemented his place in NBA history. What he is/is not will not change with another title, or with this loss to the Grizzlies. He has too much history, and he's on the downside of his great career.Over his career, he's proven to be a leader on and off the court. He's proven to be one of the best defenders in NBA history. He's proven capable of carrying the scoring load, deferring to teammates, and everything in between. He's a great passer and rebounder. He's carried teams to championships, and been ridiculously consistent (has he ever missed the playoffs?), and he's been great in the clutch (everyone remembers that 3 pointer), and extremely efficient. He's unselfish, and he wins. He's not a long range shooter, high flying dunker, or very flashy. He's struggled with free throws. Generally he's kinda boring to watch. These are the reasons lots of prop erase him as the best power forward ever. I know he hasn't passed Rick Fox in your rankings yet, but pretty much everyone else has this opinion Which of these things do you expect to change over the remainder of Duncan's career? His career averages might dip with extended late career play, but who cares?I guess he could (supposedly) rape someone, or insult gay people.
 
'Britney Spears said:
'Mr. PadresLakers said:
'Juxtatarot said:
'8ebok24 said:
If the Spurs come back in this series then go on to win the title, with Duncan giving them the same contributions, is his legacy enhanced?
Click to expand...
In my opinion, his legacy is set regardless. Another title won't change it.
Click to expand...
:lmao: Ridiculous
Click to expand...
Are you really this dense?Duncan has cemented his place in NBA history. What he is/is not will not change with another title, or with this loss to the Grizzlies. He has too much history, and he's on the downside of his great career.

Over his career, he's proven to be a leader on and off the court. He's proven to be one of the best defenders in NBA history. He's proven capable of carrying the scoring load, deferring to teammates, and everything in between. He's a great passer and rebounder. He's carried teams to championships, and been ridiculously consistent (has he ever missed the playoffs?), and he's been great in the clutch (everyone remembers that 3 pointer), and extremely efficient. He's unselfish, and he wins.

He's not a long range shooter, high flying dunker, or very flashy. He's struggled with free throws. Generally he's kinda boring to watch.

These are the reasons lots of prop erase him as the best power forward ever. I know he hasn't passed Rick Fox in your rankings yet, but pretty much everyone else has this opinion

Which of these things do you expect to change over the remainder of Duncan's career? His career averages might dip with extended late career play, but who cares?

I guess he could (supposedly) rape someone, or insult gay people.
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Good argument, but you could have left out the last sentence. Seems vindictive.

 
'Britney Spears said:
'Mr. PadresLakers said:
'Juxtatarot said:
'8ebok24 said:
If the Spurs come back in this series then go on to win the title, with Duncan giving them the same contributions, is his legacy enhanced?
Click to expand...
In my opinion, his legacy is set regardless. Another title won't change it.
Click to expand...
:lmao: Ridiculous
Click to expand...
Are you really this dense?Duncan has cemented his place in NBA history. What he is/is not will not change with another title, or with this loss to the Grizzlies. He has too much history, and he's on the downside of his great career.Over his career, he's proven to be a leader on and off the court. He's proven to be one of the best defenders in NBA history. He's proven capable of carrying the scoring load, deferring to teammates, and everything in between. He's a great passer and rebounder. He's carried teams to championships, and been ridiculously consistent (has he ever missed the playoffs?), and he's been great in the clutch (everyone remembers that 3 pointer), and extremely efficient. He's unselfish, and he wins. He's not a long range shooter, high flying dunker, or very flashy. He's struggled with free throws. Generally he's kinda boring to watch. These are the reasons lots of prop erase him as the best power forward ever. I know he hasn't passed Rick Fox in your rankings yet, but pretty much everyone else has this opinion Which of these things do you expect to change over the remainder of Duncan's career? His career averages might dip with extended late career play, but who cares?I guess he could (supposedly) rape someone, or insult gay people.
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Man you boys sure are sensitive. Tim Duncan winning another title enhances his legacy. The same is true for any other NBA legend. That's not an insult.
 
Where do people rank Joakim Noah in the league? Assuming he's healthy, IMO he's the 3rd best center in the NBA.

Not counting PF guys like Pau Gasol, Aldridge, Dirk etc.

 
'Kev4029 said:
'Britney Spears said:
Where do people rank Joakim Noah in the league? Assuming he's healthy, IMO he's the 3rd best center in the NBA.

Not counting PF guys like Pau Gasol, Aldridge, Dirk etc.
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For true centers:Howard

Horford

Bynum

Duncan

Noah

Nene
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Noah is better than Duncan at this point IMO, and I was kind of considering Duncan a PF. I also think Noah is in the same group as Horford. Noah's activity level is incredible. He's beating guards down the court and is making mayhem on the defensive end in all the games. He's making extra possessions all over the place.
 
'Kev4029 said:
'Britney Spears said:
Where do people rank Joakim Noah in the league? Assuming he's healthy, IMO he's the 3rd best center in the NBA.

Not counting PF guys like Pau Gasol, Aldridge, Dirk etc.
Click to expand...
For true centers:Howard

Horford

Bynum

Duncan

Noah

Nene
Click to expand...
not bad, but Horford's a PF (I've always thought of Duncan as more of a PF than a C too, but that's just me). Personally I'd have it like:Howard

Bynum

Noah

Bogut

Nene

Okafor

Chandler

Kaman

Lopez

 
Kobe is putting up some highlights for sure, but it has been a delight to watch Chris Paul this series. Even when he is "off", he still does some amazing things. His handle is disgusting and he seems to always be in control of his team's flow.

Where did Monte WIlliams come from, BTW?

 
'Abraham said:
Kobe is putting up some highlights for sure, but it has been a delight to watch Chris Paul this series. Even when he is "off", he still does some amazing things. His handle is disgusting and he seems to always be in control of his team's flow.Where did Monte WIlliams come from, BTW?
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He was tutored under Sonic great Nate McMillan.
 
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