*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (6 Viewers)

[TobiasFunke]

I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that."

Seriously? Kevin Martin, Scola, Odom, and a mid-first round pick for the top point guard in the game? The first offer to come across the table was so obviously the best they could do before anyone else had evne gotten involved?

What I'm saying is that I don't think specifics of the trade were the first consideration for Stern. I think it was that the owners were upset that Paul was going to the Lakers. I base this on the Gilbert letter and his "Washington Generals" comment.

So you're basing your entire opinion on this complicated decision made by the league as de facto owner of the Hornets- about which you otherwise have no knowledge whatsoever- on a letter from one of the Hornets' 29 owners? A letter which Stern says didn't enter into his calculation at all and that he didn't even see until after the initial decision on the Lakers/Rockets offer was made?You don't see how that's funny?

ETA: Forgot to mention that the letter upon which you base your opinion was signed by a lunatic. That adds to the funny.

 

[scoobygang]

I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that."

Seriously? Kevin Martin, Scola, Odom, and a mid-first round pick for the top point guard in the game? The first offer to come across the table was so obviously the best they could do before anyone else had evne gotten involved?

What makes tht "we're just watching out for the Hornets" narrative kind of hard to believe is that the Paul to the Lakers story didn't just materialize overnight. If Stern, from the beginning, was truly concerned with maintaining oversight of the process to get the best deal for the Hornets, he had ample opportunity to get involved before we heard the trade had been finalized. If Demps truly "went rogue" Stern had time to step in before we heard the other owners voice complaints (that had nothing to do with helping the Hornets).Once Stern nixed one trade, I don't think it's surprising that he then personally took responsibility for trying to get an offer that would be construed as better. It would have been a disaster if he hadn't. That he was able to do so does not necessarily mean that the better offer was always on the table. We heard for over a week that the Clippers didn't want to give up Gordon and the unprotected pick. I don't know if anyone other than the commissioner could have twisted enough arms or called in enough markers to get that deal.

 

[Kev4029]

Am I the only one who sees Hamilton as a bad fit in Chicago? Hes a mediocre defender, doesn't rebound, is only especially effective when running off screens, he is an inefficient scorer, hes had a bad time with injuries of late and hes almost 34 and is just going to get less effective. I suppose his ability to hit 18 footers is nice, but not $10m/2yr nice.

It will be interesting to see if the worsening of his stats has more to do with age or his general unhappiness on a struggling team. I suspect it will be a combination so we'll see an improvement this year. I don't really think the Bulls are expecting all that much. At only a two year deal (might have a team option for a third) they really aren't investing a lot in him. I don't think rebounding will be an issue. The Bulls should still be a top rebounding team like last year. Thibs defense is known to put the most pressure on big men (think Noah/KG as the anchors) so Rip will do OK. Certainly Rip will be better defensively than Korver and the Bulls can sub in Brewer when necessary. Rip has always gotten to the line at a surprising frequency so that should help. He certainly will be an upgrade over Bogans. The question is: Could they have gotten someone better? I don't think so. Even if Jamal Crawford ends up signing for mid-level money, he has his issues too. All the good RFA candidates would be matched by their team. Who do you think they should have gone after?

I'm sure most won't agree, but I think Vince Carter would have been a better fit. He is a better three point shooter, hes a better defender and even though he disappears sometimes, he is still very capable of creating his own shot which would have been a huge help for the Bulls and Rose. I think the biggest weakness the Bulls have is the lack of shot creators, if Rose isn't playing well they have a hard time getting good looks for other players. With Carter they would have had a guy that may have been able to pick up the slack from time to time and even run the offense if Rose is being hounded by Lebron James. I think a Brewer/Carter rotation would have been fantastic for the Bulls.

There is a Grantland article on Phil Jackson and the triangle offense. In it, Phil talked of the Triangle needing two ball handlers on the floor together. He mentioned that it was easier to defend high on a point guards who dominated the ball like Isiah or Stockton and disrupt an entire offense. That is exactly what happened to the Bulls last year first against Indiana and then Miami. They disrupted everything the Bulls were doing by pressing/doubling Rose at half court and getting the ball out of his hands. The issue is that if you get another ball handler at SG they are often in the Crawford mode which would not help the flow on offense. Rip does provide more offense in an area of the floor that could help the Bulls (curling of his screens). However, unless like Jux suggested, he had soured on Detroit and can return to his efficiency levels of a couple years ago, the Bulls have done little to upgrade. Carter might have been a better fit since he could not only create a bit for himself but initiate offense for others on top of hitting the 3, yet he is near the cliff as well and was pretty horrid with Phoenix same as Rip with Detroit. I don't think anything truly available would have been a slam dunk upgrade.As it looks like Rose isn't getting any help in the creating department, they have to figure out how to alleviate the pressure on Rose against a George or LeBron. They need to play him off the ball and make those players work chasing him off of screens and work some backside plays to free up shots. It would look like Watson or Deng might be the best option although Noah as some promise as a passer in a high post offense role if in fact he can hit that jumper with some consistency. If the Bulls keep the ball in Rose's hands against those just quick enough defenders who can use their length to prevent Rose from initiating offense, I see them struggling again to score enough.

I think everything you just wrote supports my idea that Carter would have been a MUCH better signing. He's definitely a role player at this point and you would probably have to limit him to under 30 mpg, but hes still a plus athlete and fills the three things I think the Bulls were looking for in a SG, defense, shooting and the ability to run the offense. He doesn't do any of these things like the ideal candidate, but they could have gotten him for less than what they got Hamilton (who can't run the offense and create shots for himself and others and isn't much of a defender) for. The Bulls are going to end up doing the same SG shuffle as last year, just with an added piece. With Carter they could have used a two man rotation of Carter and Brewer for offense/defense and used Korver as only the backup to Deng for 10 mpg which he is better suited for.

 

[Abraham]

Donald sterling did not trade Eric gordon as a favor to stern so he could save face.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that."

Seriously? Kevin Martin, Scola, Odom, and a mid-first round pick for the top point guard in the game? The first offer to come across the table was so obviously the best they could do before anyone else had evne gotten involved?

What makes tht "we're just watching out for the Hornets" narrative kind of hard to believe is that the Paul to the Lakers story didn't just materialize overnight. If Stern, from the beginning, was truly concerned with maintaining oversight of the process to get the best deal for the Hornets, he had ample opportunity to get involved before we heard the trade had been finalized. If Demps truly "went rogue" Stern had time to step in before we heard the other owners voice complaints (that had nothing to do with helping the Hornets).Once Stern nixed one trade, I don't think it's surprising that he then personally took responsibility for trying to get an offer that would be construed as better. It would have been a disaster if he hadn't. That he was able to do so does not necessarily mean that the better offer was always on the table. We heard for over a week that the Clippers didn't want to give up Gordon and the unprotected pick. I don't know if anyone other than the commissioner could have twisted enough arms or called in enough markers to get that deal.

I mentioned this before, but Stern claims that the Lakers/Rockets trade was never even close to being finalized and that he thinks the story was probably leaked by someone trying to exert pressure on the league to make the deal. No idea if that's true, but it seems just as likely as any other narrative. This has been weird from start to finish. As I've said, the problem was having the league collectively own a team in the first place. It simply doesn't work.

 

[Kev4029]

I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that."

Seriously? Kevin Martin, Scola, Odom, and a mid-first round pick for the top point guard in the game? The first offer to come across the table was so obviously the best they could do before anyone else had evne gotten involved?

What makes tht "we're just watching out for the Hornets" narrative kind of hard to believe is that the Paul to the Lakers story didn't just materialize overnight. If Stern, from the beginning, was truly concerned with maintaining oversight of the process to get the best deal for the Hornets, he had ample opportunity to get involved before we heard the trade had been finalized. If Demps truly "went rogue" Stern had time to step in before we heard the other owners voice complaints (that had nothing to do with helping the Hornets).Once Stern nixed one trade, I don't think it's surprising that he then personally took responsibility for trying to get an offer that would be construed as better. It would have been a disaster if he hadn't. That he was able to do so does not necessarily mean that the better offer was always on the table. We heard for over a week that the Clippers didn't want to give up Gordon and the unprotected pick. I don't know if anyone other than the commissioner could have twisted enough arms or called in enough markers to get that deal.

I mentioned this before, but Stern claims that the Lakers/Rockets trade was never even close to being finalized and that he thinks the story was probably leaked by someone trying to exert pressure on the league to make the deal. No idea if that's true, but it seems just as likely as any other narrative. This has been weird from start to finish. As I've said, the problem was having the league collectively own a team in the first place. It simply doesn't work.

If that was true I think that the Lakers would have been able to talk Odom down from the edge by telling him they had only had preliminary talks with the Hornets and Rockets. Instead they dumped him for nothing.

 

[This_Guy]

As a Clipper fan, I'd rather have Eric Gordon and the MN draft pick than 2 years of Chris Paul.

people are over valuing Gordon too much. Hes not a superstar

I don't really care if people on the other side of the country feel like he's a star or not. As a fan that actually watches the games (and I doubt there are many in here who do), Gordon's a bonafide scorer that's getting better.

I'll back up EY here. Gordon is a lot better than people realize. Last year he was the go to guy for the Clippers at the end of games and was successful. He has the killer instinct and the shot to be the guy if he keeps improving along the trajectory he has been.

 

[bigbottom]

And you making yourself look like an idiot makes it all the better

It's quite ironic that you of all people should be calling me an idiot. I won't return the favor, because that would be rude and against the stated rules here of being "excellent to each other"- I try to abide by this even if some don't. But if I were you I wouldn't be using that word too often, unless you want people to associate it with you more than they do now (which is already most of the time.)

He didn't call you an idiot. He said that you're making yourself look like an idiot. Remember your semantic defense from yesterday?

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that."

Seriously? Kevin Martin, Scola, Odom, and a mid-first round pick for the top point guard in the game? The first offer to come across the table was so obviously the best they could do before anyone else had evne gotten involved?

What makes tht "we're just watching out for the Hornets" narrative kind of hard to believe is that the Paul to the Lakers story didn't just materialize overnight. If Stern, from the beginning, was truly concerned with maintaining oversight of the process to get the best deal for the Hornets, he had ample opportunity to get involved before we heard the trade had been finalized. If Demps truly "went rogue" Stern had time to step in before we heard the other owners voice complaints (that had nothing to do with helping the Hornets).Once Stern nixed one trade, I don't think it's surprising that he then personally took responsibility for trying to get an offer that would be construed as better. It would have been a disaster if he hadn't. That he was able to do so does not necessarily mean that the better offer was always on the table. We heard for over a week that the Clippers didn't want to give up Gordon and the unprotected pick. I don't know if anyone other than the commissioner could have twisted enough arms or called in enough markers to get that deal.

I mentioned this before, but Stern claims that the Lakers/Rockets trade was never even close to being finalized and that he thinks the story was probably leaked by someone trying to exert pressure on the league to make the deal. No idea if that's true, but it seems just as likely as any other narrative. This has been weird from start to finish. As I've said, the problem was having the league collectively own a team in the first place. It simply doesn't work.

If that was true I think that the Lakers would have been able to talk Odom down from the edge by telling him they had only had preliminary talks with the Hornets and Rockets. Instead they dumped him for nothing.

I don't know if any of us can offer insight into the the mental/emotional processes of men who choose to marry Kardashians.

 

[dickey moe]

The Stern decision was bull####, but that said, it's a great day to be a Laker hater.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

The Stern decision was bull####, but that said, it's a great day to be a Laker hater.

Why?

 

[the moops]

I agree, from the business standpoint the Clippers deal is better, but I really don't think it was a better deal from a basketball standpoint.

I have a hard time agreeing with this.Instead of having Martin for 2 years at 25 million, they get a better player in Gordon for 2 years at 9 million.Instead of Odom's expiring deal of 9 million, they get Kaman's expiring deal of 12 million.Instead of 4 years and 40 million dollars of Luis Scola, they get 4 years of Aminu for 15 million.Instead of 1 year of Dragic and some ####ty draft picks they get what is most likely a top 5 pick from the Wolves, via the Clippers.

 

[Joe Summer]

I agree, from the business standpoint the Clippers deal is better, but I really don't think it was a better deal from a basketball standpoint.

I have a hard time agreeing with this.Instead of having Martin for 2 years at 25 million, they get a better player in Gordon for 2 years at 9 million.Instead of Odom's expiring deal of 9 million, they get Kaman's expiring deal of 12 million.Instead of 4 years and 40 million dollars of Luis Scola, they get 4 years of Aminu for 15 million.Instead of 1 year of Dragic and some ####ty draft picks they get what is most likely a top 5 pick from the Wolves, via the Clippers.

They could have made a playoff run this year with Martin/Odom/Scola. They're barely denting the playoffs with the current roster.Long term they are much better off, though.

 

[the moops]

A Dragic, Martin, Ariza, Scola, Okafor lineup, with Odom as 6th man, is not making the playoffs.

 

[Kev4029]

I agree, from the business standpoint the Clippers deal is better, but I really don't think it was a better deal from a basketball standpoint.

I have a hard time agreeing with this.Instead of having Martin for 2 years at 25 million, they get a better player in Gordon for 2 years at 9 million.Instead of Odom's expiring deal of 9 million, they get Kaman's expiring deal of 12 million.Instead of 4 years and 40 million dollars of Luis Scola, they get 4 years of Aminu for 15 million.Instead of 1 year of Dragic and some ####ty draft picks they get what is most likely a top 5 pick from the Wolves, via the Clippers.

I really don't think that Gordon is a better player, he may become a better player, but '10 Martin was a better player than '10 Gordon.Odom is a FARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR better player than Kaman and the Hornets would have a team option if they felt like keeping Odom around another year.Again, Scola is FARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR better than Aminu who is nothing more than a backup SF at this point of his career. And Aminu is only under contract for 3 years including this year, not 4.And I think the TWolves are going to push 30 wins this season and will end up with a better record than Charlotte, Detroit, Washington, Cleveland, Toronto, Utah, and Sacramento, pushing them closer to 10th pick than top 5. If I were a Hornets fan, I would much rather see my team win 45 games for the next 3 years than 20 or 25 while hoping to strike it big with in the crap shoot of the NBA lottery.

 

[Kev4029]

A Dragic, Martin, Ariza, Scola, Okafor lineup, with Odom as 6th man, is not making the playoffs.

Houston won 43 games with Lowry, Martin, Battier, Scola and Hayes with Lee, Budinger, Jordan Hill and Brad Miller as the primary backups. Dragic, Martin, Ariza, Scola, Okafor with Belinelli, Odom, and Jack is a better team.

 

[the moops]

If I were a Hornets fan, I would much rather see my team win 45 games for the next 3 years than 20 or 25 while hoping to strike it big with in the crap shoot of the NBA lottery.

I dont see their team being any worse now. And I dont think either iteration is anywhere near a 45 win team.

 

[biggamer3]

Ric Bucher should just retire now, he just made a list of top five players in LA and had Kobe at number 1 and he had Billups at number 5 over Bynum!

 

[Kev4029]

If I were a Hornets fan, I would much rather see my team win 45 games for the next 3 years than 20 or 25 while hoping to strike it big with in the crap shoot of the NBA lottery.

I dont see their team being any worse now. And I dont think either iteration is anywhere near a 45 win team.

They just signed Landry to a 1 year - $9mil contract, so that will help them out a little, but this years team is going to be really really really bad.

 

[Kev4029]

Ric Bucher should just retire now, he just made a list of top five players in LA and had Kobe at number 1 and he had Billups at number 5 over Bynum!

ESPN should fire just about all their NBA folk except for Hollinger (and even he is slipping relying almost entirely on statistics) and start all over. Bucher is especially bad.

 

[Abraham]

Houston won 43 games with Lowry, Martin, Battier, Scola and Hayes with Lee, Budinger, Jordan Hill and Brad Miller as the primary backups. Dragic, Martin, Ariza, Scola, Okafor with Belinelli, Odom, and Jack is a better team.

I think it's close to even (particularly with Odom's influence) but Lowry is a LOT better than Dragic. Lowry may be the most underrated PG in the league.

 

[thecatch]

I agree, from the business standpoint the Clippers deal is better, but I really don't think it was a better deal from a basketball standpoint.

I have a hard time agreeing with this.Instead of having Martin for 2 years at 25 million, they get a better player in Gordon for 2 years at 9 million.Instead of Odom's expiring deal of 9 million, they get Kaman's expiring deal of 12 million.Instead of 4 years and 40 million dollars of Luis Scola, they get 4 years of Aminu for 15 million.Instead of 1 year of Dragic and some ####ty draft picks they get what is most likely a top 5 pick from the Wolves, via the Clippers.

They could have made a playoff run this year with Martin/Odom/Scola. They're barely denting the playoffs with the current roster.Long term they are much better off, though.

Denting the playoffs? I think that is the worst team in the western conference. By a decent margin.

 

[the moops]

If I were a Hornets fan, I would much rather see my team win 45 games for the next 3 years than 20 or 25 while hoping to strike it big with in the crap shoot of the NBA lottery.

I dont see their team being any worse now. And I dont think either iteration is anywhere near a 45 win team.

They just signed Landry to a 1 year - $9mil contract, so that will help them out a little, but this years team is going to be really really really bad.

If we call Gordon and Martin a wash (not that I agree).Scola, Odom, and Dragic are not substantially better than Landry, Kaman and Aminu

 

[Kev4029]

If I were a Hornets fan, I would much rather see my team win 45 games for the next 3 years than 20 or 25 while hoping to strike it big with in the crap shoot of the NBA lottery.

I dont see their team being any worse now. And I dont think either iteration is anywhere near a 45 win team.

They just signed Landry to a 1 year - $9mil contract, so that will help them out a little, but this years team is going to be really really really bad.

If we call Gordon and Martin a wash (not that I agree).Scola, Odom, and Dragic are not substantially better than Landry, Kaman and Aminu

If you really believe that, I'm not sure what you tell you.

 

[Kev4029]

Houston won 43 games with Lowry, Martin, Battier, Scola and Hayes with Lee, Budinger, Jordan Hill and Brad Miller as the primary backups. Dragic, Martin, Ariza, Scola, Okafor with Belinelli, Odom, and Jack is a better team.

I think it's close to even (particularly with Odom's influence) but Lowry is a LOT better than Dragic. Lowry may be the most underrated PG in the league.

I've been tooting the Lowry horn for years. From the day the Rockets got him I was saying he should start over Brooks but nobody agreed with me.

 

[biggamer3]

If I were a Hornets fan, I would much rather see my team win 45 games for the next 3 years than 20 or 25 while hoping to strike it big with in the crap shoot of the NBA lottery.

I dont see their team being any worse now. And I dont think either iteration is anywhere near a 45 win team.

They just signed Landry to a 1 year - $9mil contract, so that will help them out a little, but this years team is going to be really really really bad.

If we call Gordon and Martin a wash (not that I agree).Scola, Odom, and Dragic are not substantially better than Landry, Kaman and Aminu

totally agree and the top 10 pick in a loaded draft will be a great asset as well. If Hornets tank this year, get top 5 pick, get another top 10 pick, they will be on the fast track to a decent team with Gordon, and the two rookies, moreso then Martin and Scola.I was against Stern turning down Lakers deal, but dude was in the end right. This deal is 25x better then previous deal, its not even arguable

 

[biggamer3]

If I were a Hornets fan, I would much rather see my team win 45 games for the next 3 years than 20 or 25 while hoping to strike it big with in the crap shoot of the NBA lottery.

I dont see their team being any worse now. And I dont think either iteration is anywhere near a 45 win team.

They just signed Landry to a 1 year - $9mil contract, so that will help them out a little, but this years team is going to be really really really bad.

If we call Gordon and Martin a wash (not that I agree).Scola, Odom, and Dragic are not substantially better than Landry, Kaman and Aminu

If you really believe that, I'm not sure what you tell you.

Kev, i think you are looking at it wrong. No one wants the Hornets to do 8th seed well this year, that is the worst thing for this team. A Fan or an owner would rather they have young legs and be 25 wins and get top pick then be a fringe playoff team and get 15th pick.Of course Scola, Odom, Dragic are better then Aminu, Kaman and Landry but those three barely have trade value besides Scola and what would Scola even fetch them in a deal? probably not more then a late 1st round pick

 

[thecatch]

If I were a Hornets fan, I would much rather see my team win 45 games for the next 3 years than 20 or 25 while hoping to strike it big with in the crap shoot of the NBA lottery.

I dont see their team being any worse now. And I dont think either iteration is anywhere near a 45 win team.

They just signed Landry to a 1 year - $9mil contract, so that will help them out a little, but this years team is going to be really really really bad.

If we call Gordon and Martin a wash (not that I agree).Scola, Odom, and Dragic are not substantially better than Landry, Kaman and Aminu

totally agree and the top 10 pick in a loaded draft will be a great asset as well. If Hornets tank this year, get top 5 pick, get another top 10 pick, they will be on the fast track to a decent team with Gordon, and the two rookies, moreso then Martin and Scola.I was against Stern turning down Lakers deal, but dude was in the end right. This deal is 25x better then previous deal, its not even arguable

Let's not get carried away with the twolves this year either. There is a very strong chance that they are still one of the worst 5 teams in the league this year.

 

[Kev4029]

If I were a Hornets fan, I would much rather see my team win 45 games for the next 3 years than 20 or 25 while hoping to strike it big with in the crap shoot of the NBA lottery.

I dont see their team being any worse now. And I dont think either iteration is anywhere near a 45 win team.

They just signed Landry to a 1 year - $9mil contract, so that will help them out a little, but this years team is going to be really really really bad.

If we call Gordon and Martin a wash (not that I agree).Scola, Odom, and Dragic are not substantially better than Landry, Kaman and Aminu

totally agree and the top 10 pick in a loaded draft will be a great asset as well. If Hornets tank this year, get top 5 pick, get another top 10 pick, they will be on the fast track to a decent team with Gordon, and the two rookies, moreso then Martin and Scola.I was against Stern turning down Lakers deal, but dude was in the end right. This deal is 25x better then previous deal, its not even arguable

Let's not get carried away with the twolves this year either. There is a very strong chance that they are still one of the worst 5 teams in the league this year.

If they just say #### defense, start Love at center with Williams and Beasley at the forward positions, Johnson and SG and a combo of Ridnour and Rubio at PG, they should be greatly improved with Adelman coaching them plus they would be pretty fun to watch. There is a lot of talent on that team, its just not organized well.

 

[thecatch]

If I were a Hornets fan, I would much rather see my team win 45 games for the next 3 years than 20 or 25 while hoping to strike it big with in the crap shoot of the NBA lottery.

I dont see their team being any worse now. And I dont think either iteration is anywhere near a 45 win team.

They just signed Landry to a 1 year - $9mil contract, so that will help them out a little, but this years team is going to be really really really bad.

If we call Gordon and Martin a wash (not that I agree).Scola, Odom, and Dragic are not substantially better than Landry, Kaman and Aminu

totally agree and the top 10 pick in a loaded draft will be a great asset as well. If Hornets tank this year, get top 5 pick, get another top 10 pick, they will be on the fast track to a decent team with Gordon, and the two rookies, moreso then Martin and Scola.I was against Stern turning down Lakers deal, but dude was in the end right. This deal is 25x better then previous deal, its not even arguable

Let's not get carried away with the twolves this year either. There is a very strong chance that they are still one of the worst 5 teams in the league this year.

If they just say #### defense, start Love at center with Williams and Beasley at the forward positions, Johnson and SG and a combo of Ridnour and Rubio at PG, they should be greatly improved with Adelman coaching them plus they would be pretty fun to watch. There is a lot of talent on that team, its just not organized well.

I have a lot of faith in Adelman, but I don't like those pieces nearly as much as others do (with the possible exception of Williams, we'll see how his game translates).

 

[Kev4029]

If I were a Hornets fan, I would much rather see my team win 45 games for the next 3 years than 20 or 25 while hoping to strike it big with in the crap shoot of the NBA lottery.

I dont see their team being any worse now. And I dont think either iteration is anywhere near a 45 win team.

They just signed Landry to a 1 year - $9mil contract, so that will help them out a little, but this years team is going to be really really really bad.

If we call Gordon and Martin a wash (not that I agree).Scola, Odom, and Dragic are not substantially better than Landry, Kaman and Aminu

totally agree and the top 10 pick in a loaded draft will be a great asset as well. If Hornets tank this year, get top 5 pick, get another top 10 pick, they will be on the fast track to a decent team with Gordon, and the two rookies, moreso then Martin and Scola.I was against Stern turning down Lakers deal, but dude was in the end right. This deal is 25x better then previous deal, its not even arguable

Let's not get carried away with the twolves this year either. There is a very strong chance that they are still one of the worst 5 teams in the league this year.

If they just say #### defense, start Love at center with Williams and Beasley at the forward positions, Johnson and SG and a combo of Ridnour and Rubio at PG, they should be greatly improved with Adelman coaching them plus they would be pretty fun to watch. There is a lot of talent on that team, its just not organized well.

I have a lot of faith in Adelman, but I don't like those pieces nearly as much as others do (with the possible exception of Williams, we'll see how his game translates).

Well I got good news for you then, they just inked BONZI WELLS! That completely changes things.

 

[biggamer3]

If I were a Hornets fan, I would much rather see my team win 45 games for the next 3 years than 20 or 25 while hoping to strike it big with in the crap shoot of the NBA lottery.

I dont see their team being any worse now. And I dont think either iteration is anywhere near a 45 win team.

They just signed Landry to a 1 year - $9mil contract, so that will help them out a little, but this years team is going to be really really really bad.

If we call Gordon and Martin a wash (not that I agree).Scola, Odom, and Dragic are not substantially better than Landry, Kaman and Aminu

totally agree and the top 10 pick in a loaded draft will be a great asset as well. If Hornets tank this year, get top 5 pick, get another top 10 pick, they will be on the fast track to a decent team with Gordon, and the two rookies, moreso then Martin and Scola.I was against Stern turning down Lakers deal, but dude was in the end right. This deal is 25x better then previous deal, its not even arguable

Let's not get carried away with the twolves this year either. There is a very strong chance that they are still one of the worst 5 teams in the league this year.

If they just say #### defense, start Love at center with Williams and Beasley at the forward positions, Johnson and SG and a combo of Ridnour and Rubio at PG, they should be greatly improved with Adelman coaching them plus they would be pretty fun to watch. There is a lot of talent on that team, its just not organized well.

I have a lot of faith in Adelman, but I don't like those pieces nearly as much as others do (with the possible exception of Williams, we'll see how his game translates).

Twolves are a 25 win team likely. Two rookies and love and Wesley ain't ready to be playoff contenders yet.

 

[biggamer3]

Holy crap are the pacers lucky! 21 year old Paul George grew two inches over summer to be 6"10 now

 

[tommyGunZ]

Holy crap are the pacers lucky! 21 year old Paul George grew two inches over summer to be 6"10 now

saw that. George is a big time fantasy sleeper this year. shuuuuuuuush.....

 

[Cliff Clavin]

If I were a Hornets fan, I would much rather see my team win 45 games for the next 3 years than 20 or 25 while hoping to strike it big with in the crap shoot of the NBA lottery.

I dont see their team being any worse now. And I dont think either iteration is anywhere near a 45 win team.

They just signed Landry to a 1 year - $9mil contract, so that will help them out a little, but this years team is going to be really really really bad.

If we call Gordon and Martin a wash (not that I agree).Scola, Odom, and Dragic are not substantially better than Landry, Kaman and Aminu

totally agree and the top 10 pick in a loaded draft will be a great asset as well. If Hornets tank this year, get top 5 pick, get another top 10 pick, they will be on the fast track to a decent team with Gordon, and the two rookies, moreso then Martin and Scola.I was against Stern turning down Lakers deal, but dude was in the end right. This deal is 25x better then previous deal, its not even arguable

Let's not get carried away with the twolves this year either. There is a very strong chance that they are still one of the worst 5 teams in the league this year.

If they just say #### defense, start Love at center with Williams and Beasley at the forward positions, Johnson and SG and a combo of Ridnour and Rubio at PG, they should be greatly improved with Adelman coaching them plus they would be pretty fun to watch. There is a lot of talent on that team, its just not organized well.

I have a lot of faith in Adelman, but I don't like those pieces nearly as much as others do (with the possible exception of Williams, we'll see how his game translates).

Twolves are a 25 win team likely. Two rookies and love and Wesley ain't ready to be playoff contenders yet.

An 8 win improvement over last year with 16 less games is pretty impressive.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Crawford to the Blazers 2/$10M

 

[mlball77]

Crawford to the Blazers 2/$10M

Kings were supposedly in the running for Crawford. While he would have helped the team, I’m sort of glad he didn’t end up in Sac, as I really want to see Evans, Thornton and Fridette rotate at the 1 and 2 this year. That rotation intrigues me. Might end up being a train wreck… or could be something special.

 

[Abraham]

Interesting signing by Crawford. 2nd year is a PO. Maybe he figures he can get a lot of run in Portland then cash in on one more long term deal.

 

[Abraham]

Crawford to the Blazers 2/$10M

Kings were supposedly in the running for Crawford. While he would have helped the team, I’m sort of glad he didn’t end up in Sac, as I really want to see Evans, Thornton and Fridette rotate at the 1 and 2 this year. That rotation intrigues me. Might end up being a train wreck… or could be something special.

"Hey, it's crazy enough that it might work" - I. Thomas.(Couldn't find the Youtube clip. )

 

[Bobcat10]

Holy crap are the pacers lucky! 21 year old Paul George grew two inches over summer to be 6"10 now

So did Christian Eyenga apparently. I don't think the Cavs will be as lucky though.

 

[Bobcat10]

Crawford to the Blazers 2/$10M

Nice. That's where I wanted him to go. I think that will be a good signing for the Blazers.

 

[Gr00vus]

Holy crap are the pacers lucky! 21 year old Paul George grew two inches over summer to be 6"10 now

saw that. George is a big time fantasy sleeper this year. shuuuuuuuush.....

Seems like the Pacers are set up to make some noise this year. Are they 3rd seed material yet?

 

[thecatch]

Crawford to the Blazers 2/$10M

Kings were supposedly in the running for Crawford. While he would have helped the team, I’m sort of glad he didn’t end up in Sac, as I really want to see Evans, Thornton and Fridette rotate at the 1 and 2 this year. That rotation intrigues me. Might end up being a train wreck… or could be something special.

Throw in salmons and they would have had way too many gunners in the backcourt. That signing would have made no sense.

 

[Gr00vus]

Crawford to the Blazers 2/$10M

Kings were supposedly in the running for Crawford. While he would have helped the team, I’m sort of glad he didn’t end up in Sac, as I really want to see Evans, Thornton and Fridette rotate at the 1 and 2 this year. That rotation intrigues me. Might end up being a train wreck… or could be something special.

Throw in salmons and they would have had way too many gunners in the backcourt. That signing would have made no sense.

What I'd read was they were assembling parts to make a trade down the road. Not sure what trade or who would go out from the Kings.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Great move by Stern.

Yup.So, how does this work? Do the people who ranted about him supposedly nixing the Lakers' trade for no good reason apologize, or at the very least admit that they were wrong? Or do they just forget about the fact that they were so incredibly wrong and just move on to the next thing to complain about?

Looking forward to Simmons' admission of his error and rush to judgment.

They weren't wrong. I don't believe for one second that Stern looked over the Lakers' trade and said, "We can do better than that." He was pressured by owners who said, "We don't want another big star going to the Lakers," and that's why he vetoed. It was a terrible move, it makes Stern and the NBA look awful. It was collusion, and unethical. The fact that the Clippers would make a dumb trade a week later has no bearing on that.

So far it's everything I hoped it would be. I knew I'd get the hilarious victim mentality, but I particularly like the "I know exactly what happened, even though I not only have no first-hand knowledge but it hasn't even been reported" angle. Didn't see that one coming.

Anything else?

d.

I didn't write that I knew exactly what happened. I'm simply writing what I believe. I don't claim to have any truth to back it up. But neither do you. I base my assumption on the Gilbert letter, which never discusses whether or not New Orleans can get a better deal, but only if the Lakers should be allowed to get another superstar. That was enough for me to reach my conclusion. But it's not proof. You and Cliff and all the Laker haters are gleeful right now, and you should be. First we get screwed by the league, then we follow it up with a catastrophic move that not even Jmon is willing to defend anymore. It appears we have a new guy in charge who is more interested in putting his own brand on the team than improving it, and that sucks. We'll have to see how this plays out, but at the moment things are looking pretty gloomy.

And you making yourself look like an idiot makes it all the better

It's quite ironic that you of all people should be calling me an idiot. I won't return the favor, because that would be rude and against the stated rules here of being "excellent to each other"- I try to abide by this even if some don't. But if I were you I wouldn't be using that word too often, unless you want people to associate it with you more than they do now (which is already most of the time.)

 

[Time Kibitzer]

So what are the chances that Stern gave Olshey some extra money under the table to get this deal done?

 

[mlball77]

Crawford to the Blazers 2/$10M

Kings were supposedly in the running for Crawford. While he would have helped the team, Im sort of glad he didnt end up in Sac, as I really want to see Evans, Thornton and Fridette rotate at the 1 and 2 this year. That rotation intrigues me. Might end up being a train wreck… or could be something special.

Throw in salmons and they would have had way too many gunners in the backcourt. That signing would have made no sense.

What I'd read was they were assembling parts to make a trade down the road. Not sure what trade or who would go out from the Kings.

Interesting. Hard to think what pieces they have that would draw a lot of interest outside of Evans and Cousins right now. The Catch- You make a good point... and don't forget Garcia is still in the mix at SF (and maybe SG). The Kings have a lot of guys now that like to jack up shots or have a history of pounding the ball a lot. However, Salmons commented that in practice guys were being very unselfish and that it was a pleasant surprise... I hope this translates into real game action.

 

[Gr00vus]

King declares Travis to be AN OUTLAW!!!

Good use of amnesty there I think.

Followed up by N.J. signing Udoka.

 

[shadyridr]

King declares Travis to be AN OUTLAW!!!Good use of amnesty there I think.Followed up by N.J. signing Udoka.

lmao good use of movie quote

 

[No. 16]

Holy crap are the pacers lucky! 21 year old Paul George grew two inches over summer to be 6"10 now

saw that. George is a big time fantasy sleeper this year. shuuuuuuuush.....

Seems like the Pacers are set up to make some noise this year. Are they 3rd seed material yet?

Holy crap! Paul George is gonna be a stud if he can keep his coordination with the growth. Love having him in the Build a Basketball Franchise League.