*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (5 Viewers)

[TobiasFunke]

Bigger crime: Boogie being snubbed, or Joe Johnson making it?

I say Joe Johnson- bumped not one but two worthy players, Afflalo and Lowry. He's really the only pick that bothers me. West was just a numbers crunch. I don't know who you bump to make room for Boogie or Anthony Davis. All of the big men in the West are more than deserving. Harden or Parker maybe?

Will be interesting to see who gets Kobe's spot. Gotta think Davis playing at home and having as good a case as anyone.

And Stephenson

See I don't really buy Stephenson. Sure he's a great defender, but I don't think it's just coincidence that the Pacers all of a sudden have three elite perimeter defenders on the roster just as Hibbert has become the most feared defensive big man in the game. On the other side of the ball his PER is only 15.5- only 15th among East guards and really not much higher than Joe Johnson. And his usage rate is significantly lower than the other guys competing for the East guard spots.

And not that it really matters, but I don't like the whole "redemption" angle with him. He wasn't a drug addict or a locker room cancer or something like that. He pushed his girlfriend down a flight of stairs. Not sure why we feel the need to praise a guy for "turning things around" after that.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Bigger crime: Boogie being snubbed, or Joe Johnson making it?

I say Joe Johnson- bumped not one but two worthy players, Afflalo and Lowry. He's really the only pick that bothers me. West was just a numbers crunch. I don't know who you bump to make room for Boogie or Anthony Davis. All of the big men in the West are more than deserving. Harden or Parker maybe?

Will be interesting to see who gets Kobe's spot. Gotta think Davis playing at home and having as good a case as anyone.

And Stephenson

See I don't really buy Stephenson. Sure he's a great defender, but I don't think it's just coincidence that the Pacers all of a sudden have three elite perimeter defenders on the roster just as Hibbert has become the most feared defensive big man in the game. On the other side of the ball his PER is only 15.5- only 15th among East guards and really not much higher than Joe Johnson. And his usage rate is significantly lower than the other guys competing for the East guard spots.

And not that it really matters, but I don't like the whole "redemption" angle with him. He wasn't a drug addict or a locker room cancer or something like that. He pushed his girlfriend down a flight of stairs. Not sure why we feel the need to praise a guy for "turning things around" after that.

I'm not trying to sing Stephenson's praises here. Just saying that he has been better this season and is more deserving of the all-star nod. I don't like picking a guy because his team is doing great but that appears to be a criteria for coaches so that is another big check for Stephenson. If you put any weight in VORP, Stephenson blows him out of the water (a little skewed because of the team defence but not that skewed).

I really don't care about his story either.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Bigger crime: Boogie being snubbed, or Joe Johnson making it?

I say Joe Johnson- bumped not one but two worthy players, Afflalo and Lowry. He's really the only pick that bothers me. West was just a numbers crunch. I don't know who you bump to make room for Boogie or Anthony Davis. All of the big men in the West are more than deserving. Harden or Parker maybe?

Will be interesting to see who gets Kobe's spot. Gotta think Davis playing at home and having as good a case as anyone.

And Stephenson

See I don't really buy Stephenson. Sure he's a great defender, but I don't think it's just coincidence that the Pacers all of a sudden have three elite perimeter defenders on the roster just as Hibbert has become the most feared defensive big man in the game. On the other side of the ball his PER is only 15.5- only 15th among East guards and really not much higher than Joe Johnson. And his usage rate is significantly lower than the other guys competing for the East guard spots.

And not that it really matters, but I don't like the whole "redemption" angle with him. He wasn't a drug addict or a locker room cancer or something like that. He pushed his girlfriend down a flight of stairs. Not sure why we feel the need to praise a guy for "turning things around" after that.

I'm not trying to sing Stephenson's praises here. Just saying that he has been better this season and is more deserving of the all-star nod. I don't like picking a guy because his team is doing great but that appears to be a criteria for coaches so that is another big check for Stephenson. If you put any weight in VORP, Stephenson blows him out of the water (a little skewed because of the team defence but not that skewed).

I really don't care about his story either.

Ah I see where you're saying. Yeah, three guys (at least) more deserving than Johnson. Stephenson is last of the three, but still ahead of him.

 

[Abraham]

There are easily three guards more deserving than Johnson. Seems like a lazy choice tv the coaches. The only justification I can see (and it's thin) is that Johnson is a player that has to be planned for as the/a key in the Brooklyn offense so he's more top of kind than the other three. Otherwise, I'm not sure how he got selected.

 

[TobiasFunke]

There are easily three guards more deserving than Johnson. Seems like a lazy choice tv the coaches. The only justification I can see (and it's thin) is that Johnson is a player that has to be planned for as the/a key in the Brooklyn offense so he's more top of kind than the other three. Otherwise, I'm not sure how he got selected.

IMO the more interesting story isn't that Johnson will be an all star ahead of other guys, but that the coaches selected him. How does that happen? Do they really not pay that much attention to what's going on around the league? Even a low level assistant forced to fill out a ballot between video edits should know that Kyle Lowry has been way better.

 

[Abraham]

That's my point. Maybe the low level assistants are so in the weeds that their thinking is "we scheme for joe Johnson because he can beat us if he gets hot. We don't do anything special for Lowry. Vote jj."

 

[Cliff Clavin]

That's my point. Maybe the low level assistants are so in the weeds that their thinking is "we scheme for joe Johnson because he can beat us if he gets hot. We don't do anything special for Lowry. Vote jj."

Those guys deserved to be fired.

Er, nevermind. Keep on doing what you're doing

 

[Juxtatarot]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

They should have just combined Miami and Indy and told everyone else tough ####.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

They should have just combined Miami and Indy and told everyone else tough ####.

Except make sure there is one Raptor, one Bull, one Hawk, one Net and one Wizard. (And the fans voted in one Cav and one Knick.)

Actually, the more I think about it, I would vote Kemba Walker before Lowry. Bobcats got screwed.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

They should have just combined Miami and Indy and told everyone else tough ####.

Except make sure there is one Raptor, one Bull, one Hawk, one Net and one Wizard.

So the play on the court is irrelevant? Is this like giving everyone a trophy for trying hard?

 

[Juxtatarot]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

They should have just combined Miami and Indy and told everyone else tough ####.

Except make sure there is one Raptor, one Bull, one Hawk, one Net and one Wizard.

So the play on the court is irrelevant? Is this like giving everyone a trophy for trying hard?

It's like the MVP voting. Rose was never better than LeBron. Dirk and Nash were never the best players in the league either.

Picking All-Stars and MVPs isn't a statistical exercise. Story matters. You shouldn't view this as Lowry vs. Johnson. It was really Lowry vs. DeRozan.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

They should have just combined Miami and Indy and told everyone else tough ####.

Except make sure there is one Raptor, one Bull, one Hawk, one Net and one Wizard.

So the play on the court is irrelevant? Is this like giving everyone a trophy for trying hard?

It's like the MVP voting. Rose was never better than LeBron. Dirk and Nash were never the best players in the league either.

Picking All-Stars and MVPs isn't a statistical exercise. Story matters. You shouldn't view this as Lowry vs. Johnson. It was really Lowry vs. DeRozan.

What story does Joe Johnson have other than "having one of the worst seasons of his career on an extremely disappointing team where he isn't even the best player"?

 

[Juxtatarot]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

They should have just combined Miami and Indy and told everyone else tough ####.

Except make sure there is one Raptor, one Bull, one Hawk, one Net and one Wizard.

So the play on the court is irrelevant? Is this like giving everyone a trophy for trying hard?

It's like the MVP voting. Rose was never better than LeBron. Dirk and Nash were never the best players in the league either.

Picking All-Stars and MVPs isn't a statistical exercise. Story matters. You shouldn't view this as Lowry vs. Johnson. It was really Lowry vs. DeRozan.

What story does Joe Johnson have other than "having one of the worst seasons of his career on an extremely disappointing team where he isn't even the best player"?

He plays for the Nets. The Nets are certainly making the playoffs. If you want to argue against Johnson, then argue Johnson vs. Deron vs. Pierce vs. KG.

And part of "story" is nobody cares about having two Raptors other than Raptor fans and stat-geeks.

 

[coyote5]

You guys mind if I pick your brains on fantasy again? Thoughts on Reggie Jackson's value in a couple weeks when Rus returns? Completely shot, or has Brooks tried using lineups with both of them at times?

I have a trade cooking, my Westbrook, Millsap, Korver and Frye for Beal, Turner, Cousins, G Henderson and Reggie Jackson... I'm fighting to get in the playoffs and have a ton of injuries so at this point I can't really wait 2 more weeks for Westy to come back... I feel like I need to do this trade.

Thoughts?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

They should have just combined Miami and Indy and told everyone else tough ####.

Except make sure there is one Raptor, one Bull, one Hawk, one Net and one Wizard.

So the play on the court is irrelevant? Is this like giving everyone a trophy for trying hard?

It's like the MVP voting. Rose was never better than LeBron. Dirk and Nash were never the best players in the league either.

Picking All-Stars and MVPs isn't a statistical exercise. Story matters. You shouldn't view this as Lowry vs. Johnson. It was really Lowry vs. DeRozan.

I'm not opposed to a player who is slightly worse statistically being an all-star so that most or all of the current playoff teams are represented. But I don't buy the story angle here. Seems to me that if a team can get to 24-21 with only 4-5 guys that you'd even want on your roster at all, it's OK to reward two of those guys and pass over a guy from a 20-23 team with a $103 million payroll and a ton of solid contributors.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

They should have just combined Miami and Indy and told everyone else tough ####.

Except make sure there is one Raptor, one Bull, one Hawk, one Net and one Wizard.

So the play on the court is irrelevant? Is this like giving everyone a trophy for trying hard?

It's like the MVP voting. Rose was never better than LeBron. Dirk and Nash were never the best players in the league either.

Picking All-Stars and MVPs isn't a statistical exercise. Story matters. You shouldn't view this as Lowry vs. Johnson. It was really Lowry vs. DeRozan.

What story does Joe Johnson have other than "having one of the worst seasons of his career on an extremely disappointing team where he isn't even the best player"?

He plays for the Nets. The Nets are certainly making the playoffs. If you want to argue against Johnson, then argue Johnson vs. Deron vs. Pierce vs. KG.

And part of "story" is nobody cares about having two Raptors other than Raptor fans and stat-geeks.

If it was close, I might agree with you. But it isn't. No where near close.

I'm not sure what your definition of "not caring" is but you can pick any writer out there and (Haberstoh, Lowe, Stein, etc) they all say it is a terrible selection.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I'm not opposed to a player who is slightly worse statistically being an all-star so that most or all of the current playoff teams are represented. But I don't buy the story angle here. Seems to me that if a team can get to 24-21 with only 4-5 guys that you'd even want on your roster at all, it's OK to reward two of those guys and pass over a guy from a 20-23 team with $103 million payroll and a ton of solid contributors.

Oh come on!

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm not opposed to a player who is slightly worse statistically being an all-star so that most or all of the current playoff teams are represented. But I don't buy the story angle here. Seems to me that if a team can get to 24-21 with only 4-5 guys that you'd even want on your roster at all, it's OK to reward two of those guys and pass over a guy from a 20-23 team with $103 million payroll and a ton of solid contributors.

Oh come on!

Only a slight exaggeration.

How about 4-5 guys that would even get in the rotation for a contender?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I'm not opposed to a player who is slightly worse statistically being an all-star so that most or all of the current playoff teams are represented. But I don't buy the story angle here. Seems to me that if a team can get to 24-21 with only 4-5 guys that you'd even want on your roster at all, it's OK to reward two of those guys and pass over a guy from a 20-23 team with $103 million payroll and a ton of solid contributors.

Oh come on!

Only a slight exaggeration.

How about 4-5 guys that would even get in the rotation for a contender?

Well their 4/5th big, Hansbrough, was a rotation player on a contender last season so you're going to have a tough time backing that up.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm not opposed to a player who is slightly worse statistically being an all-star so that most or all of the current playoff teams are represented. But I don't buy the story angle here. Seems to me that if a team can get to 24-21 with only 4-5 guys that you'd even want on your roster at all, it's OK to reward two of those guys and pass over a guy from a 20-23 team with $103 million payroll and a ton of solid contributors.

Oh come on!

Only a slight exaggeration.

How about 4-5 guys that would even get in the rotation for a contender?

Well their 4/5th big, Hansbrough, was a rotation player on a contender last season so you're going to have a tough time backing that up.

You're ruining my pro-Lowry argument here, you know. Plus Indiana felt the need to upgrade from Hansbrough after the season, so not exactly a ringing endorsement.

Obviously it depends on the player and the contender. Patterson gets minutes in OKC but not Indiana. Vasquez maybe in Miami but not OKC or LAC. And so on.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I'm not opposed to a player who is slightly worse statistically being an all-star so that most or all of the current playoff teams are represented. But I don't buy the story angle here. Seems to me that if a team can get to 24-21 with only 4-5 guys that you'd even want on your roster at all, it's OK to reward two of those guys and pass over a guy from a 20-23 team with $103 million payroll and a ton of solid contributors.

Oh come on!

Only a slight exaggeration.

How about 4-5 guys that would even get in the rotation for a contender?

Well their 4/5th big, Hansbrough, was a rotation player on a contender last season so you're going to have a tough time backing that up.

You're ruining my pro-Lowry argument here, you know. Plus Indiana felt the need to upgrade from Hansbrough after the season, so not exactly a ringing endorsement.

Obviously it depends on the player and the contender. Patterson gets minutes in OKC but not Indiana. Vasquez maybe in Miami but not OKC or LAC. And so on.

Lowry really shouldn't need an argument. Other than Paul, he has arguably been the best PG in the league this season.

And I really don't like the 'wouldn't be a rotation player on a contender' argument for the exact reason you gave. Miami would love to have any of Toronto's bigs but Indy could probably only find a few minutes for 1 or 2 of them.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

You guys mind if I pick your brains on fantasy again? Thoughts on Reggie Jackson's value in a couple weeks when Rus returns? Completely shot, or has Brooks tried using lineups with both of them at times?

I have a trade cooking, my Westbrook, Millsap, Korver and Frye for Beal, Turner, Cousins, G Henderson and Reggie Jackson... I'm fighting to get in the playoffs and have a ton of injuries so at this point I can't really wait 2 more weeks for Westy to come back... I feel like I need to do this trade.

Thoughts?

I've seen him use both Reggie and Westbrook in the past. As a Lamb owner, I'm a little worried his minutes go down. You'll probably see a lot of fluctation depending on opponent and how Reggie/Westbrook are shooting it. If theyr'e on, Lamb sits and watches...

 

[Timmay]

You guys mind if I pick your brains on fantasy again? Thoughts on Reggie Jackson's value in a couple weeks when Rus returns? Completely shot, or has Brooks tried using lineups with both of them at times?

I have a trade cooking, my Westbrook, Millsap, Korver and Frye for Beal, Turner, Cousins, G Henderson and Reggie Jackson... I'm fighting to get in the playoffs and have a ton of injuries so at this point I can't really wait 2 more weeks for Westy to come back... I feel like I need to do this trade.

Thoughts?

I've seen him use both Reggie and Westbrook in the past. As a Lamb owner, I'm a little worried his minutes go down. You'll probably see a lot of fluctation depending on opponent and how Reggie/Westbrook are shooting it. If theyr'e on, Lamb sits and watches...

I think Reggie will continue to get playing time when Westbrook is back, he will move into that 6th man role and probably finish the game. I wouldn't expect great numbers though. I could see him averaging 12pts-3rebs-4assists-1stl rest of the year with Westbrook. Without seeing the rest of your team, I think I would do this trade. Who knows when Westbrook will be back and when he comes back, when will he be his usual self. Millsap has been playing really well since Horford went down, but if you are getting Cousins in return it is basically a wash. Korver only provides 3's really and Frye is so hit or miss, when he is hot he provides great numbers, but he goes in those cold streaks fairly often.

 

[coyote5]

You guys mind if I pick your brains on fantasy again? Thoughts on Reggie Jackson's value in a couple weeks when Rus returns? Completely shot, or has Brooks tried using lineups with both of them at times?

I have a trade cooking, my Westbrook, Millsap, Korver and Frye for Beal, Turner, Cousins, G Henderson and Reggie Jackson... I'm fighting to get in the playoffs and have a ton of injuries so at this point I can't really wait 2 more weeks for Westy to come back... I feel like I need to do this trade.

Thoughts?

I've seen him use both Reggie and Westbrook in the past. As a Lamb owner, I'm a little worried his minutes go down. You'll probably see a lot of fluctation depending on opponent and how Reggie/Westbrook are shooting it. If theyr'e on, Lamb sits and watches...

Thanks... what do you think of that deal, Jackson aside? I feel like Westy and Cousins are pretty much a wash... Beal's producing even on the 30 min limit... hopefully that comes off in the next couple weeks. Turner is playing well

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm not opposed to a player who is slightly worse statistically being an all-star so that most or all of the current playoff teams are represented. But I don't buy the story angle here. Seems to me that if a team can get to 24-21 with only 4-5 guys that you'd even want on your roster at all, it's OK to reward two of those guys and pass over a guy from a 20-23 team with $103 million payroll and a ton of solid contributors.

Oh come on!

Only a slight exaggeration.

How about 4-5 guys that would even get in the rotation for a contender?

Well their 4/5th big, Hansbrough, was a rotation player on a contender last season so you're going to have a tough time backing that up.

You're ruining my pro-Lowry argument here, you know. Plus Indiana felt the need to upgrade from Hansbrough after the season, so not exactly a ringing endorsement.

Obviously it depends on the player and the contender. Patterson gets minutes in OKC but not Indiana. Vasquez maybe in Miami but not OKC or LAC. And so on.

Lowry really shouldn't need an argument. Other than Paul, he has arguably been the best PG in the league this season.

And I really don't like the 'wouldn't be a rotation player on a contender' argument for the exact reason you gave. Miami would love to have any of Toronto's bigs but Indy could probably only find a few minutes for 1 or 2 of them.

Sure- then consider it a DeRozan argument.

The point was that even if you do play the narrative game and favor winners and all that stuff, there's nothing wrong with giving a 24-21 team two spots and a 20-23 team zero spots considering the rest of the rosters.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

They should have just combined Miami and Indy and told everyone else tough ####.

Except make sure there is one Raptor, one Bull, one Hawk, one Net and one Wizard.

So the play on the court is irrelevant? Is this like giving everyone a trophy for trying hard?

It's like the MVP voting. Rose was never better than LeBron. Dirk and Nash were never the best players in the league either.

Picking All-Stars and MVPs isn't a statistical exercise. Story matters. You shouldn't view this as Lowry vs. Johnson. It was really Lowry vs. DeRozan.

What story does Joe Johnson have other than "having one of the worst seasons of his career on an extremely disappointing team where he isn't even the best player"?

He plays for the Nets. The Nets are certainly making the playoffs. If you want to argue against Johnson, then argue Johnson vs. Deron vs. Pierce vs. KG.

And part of "story" is nobody cares about having two Raptors other than Raptor fans and stat-geeks.

If it was close, I might agree with you. But it isn't. No where near close.

I'm not sure what your definition of "not caring" is but you can pick any writer out there and (Haberstoh, Lowe, Stein, etc) they all say it is a terrible selection.

The Raptors let Lowry down. If they were 10 games over .500, they'd be a two All-Star team this year. Team success matters. We've seen that in past years with the reserve selections (not the fan voting, of course). Again, I see the debate as DeRozan vs. Lowry. Or Johnson vs. a Bobcat or a different Net.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

They should have just combined Miami and Indy and told everyone else tough ####.

Except make sure there is one Raptor, one Bull, one Hawk, one Net and one Wizard.

So the play on the court is irrelevant? Is this like giving everyone a trophy for trying hard?

It's like the MVP voting. Rose was never better than LeBron. Dirk and Nash were never the best players in the league either.

Picking All-Stars and MVPs isn't a statistical exercise. Story matters. You shouldn't view this as Lowry vs. Johnson. It was really Lowry vs. DeRozan.

What story does Joe Johnson have other than "having one of the worst seasons of his career on an extremely disappointing team where he isn't even the best player"?

He plays for the Nets. The Nets are certainly making the playoffs. If you want to argue against Johnson, then argue Johnson vs. Deron vs. Pierce vs. KG.

And part of "story" is nobody cares about having two Raptors other than Raptor fans and stat-geeks.

If it was close, I might agree with you. But it isn't. No where near close.

I'm not sure what your definition of "not caring" is but you can pick any writer out there and (Haberstoh, Lowe, Stein, etc) they all say it is a terrible selection.

The Raptors let Lowry down. If they were 10 games over .500, they'd be a two All-Star team this year. Team success matters. We've seen that in past years with the reserve selections (not the fan voting, of course). Again, I see the debate as DeRozan vs. Lowry. Or Johnson vs. a Bobcat or a different Net.

Why is Melo an all-star then? Knicks have been a failure this year.

We could easily change this to Stephenson over Johnson.

Numbers = Stephenson

Story = Stephenson

Team Success = Stephenson

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Dunk Contest: Over before it even starts.

 

[tommyGunZ]

You guys mind if I pick your brains on fantasy again? Thoughts on Reggie Jackson's value in a couple weeks when Rus returns? Completely shot, or has Brooks tried using lineups with both of them at times?

I have a trade cooking, my Westbrook, Millsap, Korver and Frye for Beal, Turner, Cousins, G Henderson and Reggie Jackson... I'm fighting to get in the playoffs and have a ton of injuries so at this point I can't really wait 2 more weeks for Westy to come back... I feel like I need to do this trade.

Thoughts?

Not sure about the trade, but I think Reggie isn't startable in 12+ team leagues after Westy returns.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

You guys mind if I pick your brains on fantasy again? Thoughts on Reggie Jackson's value in a couple weeks when Rus returns? Completely shot, or has Brooks tried using lineups with both of them at times?

I have a trade cooking, my Westbrook, Millsap, Korver and Frye for Beal, Turner, Cousins, G Henderson and Reggie Jackson... I'm fighting to get in the playoffs and have a ton of injuries so at this point I can't really wait 2 more weeks for Westy to come back... I feel like I need to do this trade.

Thoughts?

I've seen him use both Reggie and Westbrook in the past. As a Lamb owner, I'm a little worried his minutes go down. You'll probably see a lot of fluctation depending on opponent and how Reggie/Westbrook are shooting it. If theyr'e on, Lamb sits and watches...

Thanks... what do you think of that deal, Jackson aside? I feel like Westy and Cousins are pretty much a wash... Beal's producing even on the 30 min limit... hopefully that comes off in the next couple weeks. Turner is playing well

Agree with Timmay above. Seems like he knows what's up.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Why is Melo an all-star then? Knicks have been a failure this year.
We could easily change this to Stephenson over Johnson.

Numbers = Stephenson

Story = Stephenson

Team Success = Stephenson

Melo was voted in by fans, of course, not the coaches. He's also a true "Star". Lowry isn't.

I can see the Stephenson over Johnson position. Totally valid.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Lowry overdose.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

They should have just combined Miami and Indy and told everyone else tough ####.

Except make sure there is one Raptor, one Bull, one Hawk, one Net and one Wizard.

So the play on the court is irrelevant? Is this like giving everyone a trophy for trying hard?

It's like the MVP voting. Rose was never better than LeBron. Dirk and Nash were never the best players in the league either.

Picking All-Stars and MVPs isn't a statistical exercise. Story matters. You shouldn't view this as Lowry vs. Johnson. It was really Lowry vs. DeRozan.

What story does Joe Johnson have other than "having one of the worst seasons of his career on an extremely disappointing team where he isn't even the best player"?

He plays for the Nets. The Nets are certainly making the playoffs. If you want to argue against Johnson, then argue Johnson vs. Deron vs. Pierce vs. KG.

And part of "story" is nobody cares about having two Raptors other than Raptor fans and stat-geeks.

If it was close, I might agree with you. But it isn't. No where near close.

I'm not sure what your definition of "not caring" is but you can pick any writer out there and (Haberstoh, Lowe, Stein, etc) they all say it is a terrible selection.

The Raptors let Lowry down. If they were 10 games over .500, they'd be a two All-Star team this year. Team success matters. We've seen that in past years with the reserve selections (not the fan voting, of course). Again, I see the debate as DeRozan vs. Lowry. Or Johnson vs. a Bobcat or a different Net.

This is taking a legitimate viewpoint- albeit one I disagree with- to totally absurd ends.

Let's say LeBron and every other Heat player was lost for the season in a bizarre kiln explosion during a preseason pottery outing. The Heat sign me, you, Cliff, Gunz, Abe, TRE, and Kev and Groovus to join Wade and Bosh in the rotation, and fills out the bench with some Shark Pool weirdos. Meanwhile, Joe Johnson is joined on the Nets roster by a plethora of guys who are almost as good as him or even arguably better than him (don't really need to imagine this part).

Despite this significant impediment (no offense to my fellow posters), the Heat manage to stay several games ahead of the Nets in the standings. You're telling me you think either Wade or Bosh has to stay home in favor of Joe Johnson in that scenario?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Why is Melo an all-star then? Knicks have been a failure this year.
We could easily change this to Stephenson over Johnson.

Numbers = Stephenson

Story = Stephenson

Team Success = Stephenson

Melo was voted in by fans, of course, not the coaches. He's also a true "Star". Lowry isn't.

I can see the Stephenson over Johnson position. Totally valid.

Er. Forgot his was fan voted. They really need to stop that.

Point is, Johnson is a ridiculous selection by any metric and Lowry is a massive snub.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

They should have just combined Miami and Indy and told everyone else tough ####.

Except make sure there is one Raptor, one Bull, one Hawk, one Net and one Wizard.

So the play on the court is irrelevant? Is this like giving everyone a trophy for trying hard?

It's like the MVP voting. Rose was never better than LeBron. Dirk and Nash were never the best players in the league either.

Picking All-Stars and MVPs isn't a statistical exercise. Story matters. You shouldn't view this as Lowry vs. Johnson. It was really Lowry vs. DeRozan.

What story does Joe Johnson have other than "having one of the worst seasons of his career on an extremely disappointing team where he isn't even the best player"?

He plays for the Nets. The Nets are certainly making the playoffs. If you want to argue against Johnson, then argue Johnson vs. Deron vs. Pierce vs. KG.

And part of "story" is nobody cares about having two Raptors other than Raptor fans and stat-geeks.

If it was close, I might agree with you. But it isn't. No where near close.

I'm not sure what your definition of "not caring" is but you can pick any writer out there and (Haberstoh, Lowe, Stein, etc) they all say it is a terrible selection.

The Raptors let Lowry down. If they were 10 games over .500, they'd be a two All-Star team this year. Team success matters. We've seen that in past years with the reserve selections (not the fan voting, of course). Again, I see the debate as DeRozan vs. Lowry. Or Johnson vs. a Bobcat or a different Net.

This is taking a legitimate viewpoint- albeit one I disagree with- to totally absurd ends.

Let's say LeBron and every other Heat player was lost for the season in a bizarre kiln explosion during a preseason pottery outing. The Heat sign me, you, Cliff, Gunz, Abe, TRE, and Kev and Groovus to join Wade and Bosh in the rotation, and fills out the bench with some Shark Pool weirdos. Meanwhile, Joe Johnson is joined on the Nets roster by a plethora of guys who are almost as good as him or even arguably better than him (don't really need to imagine this part).

Despite this significant impediment (no offense to my fellow posters), the Heat manage to stay several games ahead of the Nets in the standings. You're telling me you think either Wade or Bosh has to stay home in favor of Joe Johnson in that scenario?

Who is taking a legitimate viewpoint to absurd ends? Me or you?

 

[hxperson]

Coaches probably thought that one Raptor on the All-Star team was enough. I certainly wouldn't vote for two. They're a .500 team.

They should have just combined Miami and Indy and told everyone else tough ####.

Except make sure there is one Raptor, one Bull, one Hawk, one Net and one Wizard.

So the play on the court is irrelevant? Is this like giving everyone a trophy for trying hard?

It's like the MVP voting. Rose was never better than LeBron. Dirk and Nash were never the best players in the league either.

Picking All-Stars and MVPs isn't a statistical exercise. Story matters. You shouldn't view this as Lowry vs. Johnson. It was really Lowry vs. DeRozan.

What story does Joe Johnson have other than "having one of the worst seasons of his career on an extremely disappointing team where he isn't even the best player"?

He plays for the Nets. The Nets are certainly making the playoffs. If you want to argue against Johnson, then argue Johnson vs. Deron vs. Pierce vs. KG.

And part of "story" is nobody cares about having two Raptors other than Raptor fans and stat-geeks.

If it was close, I might agree with you. But it isn't. No where near close.

I'm not sure what your definition of "not caring" is but you can pick any writer out there and (Haberstoh, Lowe, Stein, etc) they all say it is a terrible selection.

The Raptors let Lowry down. If they were 10 games over .500, they'd be a two All-Star team this year. Team success matters. We've seen that in past years with the reserve selections (not the fan voting, of course). Again, I see the debate as DeRozan vs. Lowry. Or Johnson vs. a Bobcat or a different Net.

IMO it should have been Lowry over Derozan and Al Jefferson over Joe Johnson.

Derozan has definitely stepped it up this year but he's not an All-Star, IMO. That being said, he is much better than Joe Johnson right now.

 

[TobiasFunke]

This is taking a legitimate viewpoint- albeit one I disagree with- to totally absurd ends.

Let's say LeBron and every other Heat player was lost for the season in a bizarre kiln explosion during a preseason pottery outing. The Heat sign me, you, Cliff, Gunz, Abe, TRE, and Kev and Groovus to join Wade and Bosh in the rotation, and fills out the bench with some Shark Pool weirdos. Meanwhile, Joe Johnson is joined on the Nets roster by a plethora of guys who are almost as good as him or even arguably better than him (don't really need to imagine this part).

Despite this significant impediment (no offense to my fellow posters), the Heat manage to stay several games ahead of the Nets in the standings. You're telling me you think either Wade or Bosh has to stay home in favor of Joe Johnson in that scenario?

Who is taking a legitimate viewpoint to absurd ends? Me or you?

You seem to be saying that all-star spots should be allocated based mostly or entirely on team record. Just decide how many wins corresponds to an all star selection and go from there. I haven't seen any mention from you that the rest of the team's roster beyond the all-star candidates is relevant.

I'm fine with favoring guys on winner if things are relatively close, but I don't see why that means a team of many, many above- average players deserves the same recognition as a team that's been dragged to the 3 spot by two guards.

 

[coyote5]

You guys mind if I pick your brains on fantasy again? Thoughts on Reggie Jackson's value in a couple weeks when Rus returns? Completely shot, or has Brooks tried using lineups with both of them at times?

I have a trade cooking, my Westbrook, Millsap, Korver and Frye for Beal, Turner, Cousins, G Henderson and Reggie Jackson... I'm fighting to get in the playoffs and have a ton of injuries so at this point I can't really wait 2 more weeks for Westy to come back... I feel like I need to do this trade.

Thoughts?

I've seen him use both Reggie and Westbrook in the past. As a Lamb owner, I'm a little worried his minutes go down. You'll probably see a lot of fluctation depending on opponent and how Reggie/Westbrook are shooting it. If theyr'e on, Lamb sits and watches...

Thanks... what do you think of that deal, Jackson aside? I feel like Westy and Cousins are pretty much a wash... Beal's producing even on the 30 min limit... hopefully that comes off in the next couple weeks. Turner is playing well

Agree with Timmay above. Seems like he knows what's up.

Yeah I just countered Millsap, Westbrook, and Korver for Boogie, Beal, Turner and Henderson. I tend to agree RJ isn't worth much in 2 weeks.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Has there ever been a year when two All-Star reserves were named from the same team that's hovered around .500? I'd be shocked if there were any precedence for that. Yet it's some kind of travesty that that didn't happen this year? And that 2nd player is one that isn't a household name nor a former star and is even being actively shopped around by his own team?

 

[Juxtatarot]

This is taking a legitimate viewpoint- albeit one I disagree with- to totally absurd ends.

Let's say LeBron and every other Heat player was lost for the season in a bizarre kiln explosion during a preseason pottery outing. The Heat sign me, you, Cliff, Gunz, Abe, TRE, and Kev and Groovus to join Wade and Bosh in the rotation, and fills out the bench with some Shark Pool weirdos. Meanwhile, Joe Johnson is joined on the Nets roster by a plethora of guys who are almost as good as him or even arguably better than him (don't really need to imagine this part).

Despite this significant impediment (no offense to my fellow posters), the Heat manage to stay several games ahead of the Nets in the standings. You're telling me you think either Wade or Bosh has to stay home in favor of Joe Johnson in that scenario?

Who is taking a legitimate viewpoint to absurd ends? Me or you?

You seem to be saying that all-star spots should be allocated based mostly or entirely on team record. Just decide how many wins corresponds to an all star selection and go from there. I haven't seen any mention from you that the rest of the team's roster beyond the all-star candidates is relevant.

I'm fine with favoring guys on winner if things are relatively close, but I don't see why that means a team of many, many above- average players deserves the same recognition as a team that's been dragged to the 3 spot by two guards.

I'm saying that it is clear that coaches take that in consideration when voting -- there is not a set allocation but it is a consideration. Accordingly, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the Raptors only got one All-Star. And personally as an NBA fan, I have no problem with that.

 

[hxperson]

Has there ever been a year when two All-Star reserves were named from the same team that's hovered around .500? I'd be shocked if there were any precedence for that. Yet it's some kind of travesty that that didn't happen this year? And that 2nd player is one that isn't a household name nor a former star and is even being actively shopped around by his own team?

It is more of a travesty that Joe Johnson got selected. I see Lowry as just the guy who is having the best season out of those who were left off the team. Combining the two, the disparity is mind boggling enough to generate outrage, regardless of any philosophies on team winning percentages and their all-star representatives.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Has there ever been a year when two All-Star reserves were named from the same team that's hovered around .500? I'd be shocked if there were any precedence for that. Yet it's some kind of travesty that that didn't happen this year? And that 2nd player is one that isn't a household name nor a former star and is even being actively shopped around by his own team?

Great question. Fun to research.

Didn't take long, though. Atlanta Hawks 2010-11 went 44-38 with all stars Al Horford and ... wait for it ... Joe Johnson.

Not a travesty of course. It's a silly little all star game. Kind of a shame, though. Rooting for perpetually crappy teams that never have marquee players really sucks, all star bids can take on an outsize importance for those fans. You should have seen Wizards Twitter when Wall got the official nod last night. So I can see how it sucks for Raptors fans that Lowry didn't make it, even with DeRozan getting in.

 

[hxperson]

Has there ever been a year when two All-Star reserves were named from the same team that's hovered around .500? I'd be shocked if there were any precedence for that. Yet it's some kind of travesty that that didn't happen this year? And that 2nd player is one that isn't a household name nor a former star and is even being actively shopped around by his own team?

Great question. Fun to research.

Didn't take long, though. Atlanta Hawks 2010-11 went 44-38 with all stars Al Horford and ... wait for it ... Joe Johnson.

Not a travesty of course. It's a silly little all star game. Kind of a shame, though. Rooting for perpetually crappy teams that never have marquee players really sucks, all star bids can take on an outsize importance for those fans. You should have seen Wizards Twitter when Wall got the official nod last night. So I can see how it sucks for Raptors fans that Lowry didn't make it, even with DeRozan getting in.

I believe that if the coaches had picked Lowry instead of Derozan, you wouldn't be hearing much from Raptors fans and travesty would be Stephenson being left off. The problem lies with Joe Johnson.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Has there ever been a year when two All-Star reserves were named from the same team that's hovered around .500? I'd be shocked if there were any precedence for that. Yet it's some kind of travesty that that didn't happen this year? And that 2nd player is one that isn't a household name nor a former star and is even being actively shopped around by his own team?

Great question. Fun to research.

Didn't take long, though. Atlanta Hawks 2010-11 went 44-38 with all stars Al Horford and ... wait for it ... Joe Johnson.

Not a travesty of course. It's a silly little all star game. Kind of a shame, though. Rooting for perpetually crappy teams that never have marquee players really sucks, all star bids can take on an outsize importance for those fans. You should have seen Wizards Twitter when Wall got the official nod last night. So I can see how it sucks for Raptors fans that Lowry didn't make it, even with DeRozan getting in.

I believe that if the coaches had picked Lowry instead of Derozan, you wouldn't be hearing much from Raptors fans and travesty would be Stephenson being left off. The problem lies with Joe Johnson.

Yeah I can buy that.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Stephenson has been the 2nd best SG in the league this season (Harden) in the 1st half with Wade missing nearly 1/3 of the games.

I thought the guy would have flamed out, but he's made a ton of money this season. He's been awesome as a facilitator for the 2nd best team in the 1st half. And only seems to be improving. Outside of FT shooting, the guy doesn't have a hole in his game right now.

 

[thecatch]

Has there ever been a year when two All-Star reserves were named from the same team that's hovered around .500? I'd be shocked if there were any precedence for that. Yet it's some kind of travesty that that didn't happen this year? And that 2nd player is one that isn't a household name nor a former star and is even being actively shopped around by his own team?

Raptors fans are being greedy if they think they deserved two players. DeRozan was a poor pick. Lowry was snubbed for sure though.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Has there ever been a year when two All-Star reserves were named from the same team that's hovered around .500? I'd be shocked if there were any precedence for that. Yet it's some kind of travesty that that didn't happen this year? And that 2nd player is one that isn't a household name nor a former star and is even being actively shopped around by his own team?

Great question. Fun to research.

Didn't take long, though. Atlanta Hawks 2010-11 went 44-38 with all stars Al Horford and ... wait for it ... Joe Johnson.

Not a travesty of course. It's a silly little all star game. Kind of a shame, though. Rooting for perpetually crappy teams that never have marquee players really sucks, all star bids can take on an outsize importance for those fans. You should have seen Wizards Twitter when Wall got the official nod last night. So I can see how it sucks for Raptors fans that Lowry didn't make it, even with DeRozan getting in.

Well, that certainly is surprising! Interesting, too. Thanks for looking that up.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Another comment while I'm killing my Friday afternoon in this thread: Why doesn't the NBA schedule afternoon games on Sunday? Tens of millions of drunk football fans sitting in front of TVs waiting until 6:30 eastern time and their only options are pregame nonsense, a golf tournament, and two mediocre hockey teams dropping the puck at 12:30? The single NBA game isn't even on NBA TV, it's on League Pass.

Check the Saturday schedule. I understand why they want Miami at NY on Saturday night with all the celebs and buzz, but you're telling me ESPN or TNT couldn't air OKC at Washington at 12:30 on Sunday instead (KD homecoming!) and Brooklyn at Indiana at 3 and clean up? Is there some sort of courtesy arrangement that prevents them from doing that?

 

[Juxtatarot]

Speaking of the Superbowl, I just remembered that Nate Robinson is a diehard Seahawks fan working in Denver. He must be enjoying that.