*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (8 Viewers)

[TobiasFunke]

Ibaka day to day (!?!!??!?!?)

Thunder:

“The abundance of blood and therefore swelling in Serge's calf has reduced substantially and unexpectedly, allowing a level of movement and stability not thought possible after the initial diagnosis. Based on both imaging and physical exam, the considerable swelling in the calf indicated the likelihood of a certain degree of injury, and that established the original time frame for recovery.
At present, Serge has yet to complete a full basketball workout, but is walking and doing light basketball drills. With this new information, and in an effort to keep his status current, we are now listing him as day-to-day with the understanding that there is a possibility for him to play in this series.”

 

[Moe.]

Quick add, if Love really wants to win and be involved in the playoff, etc. He should go to a decent team in the East

Agreed. The perception of him at this point in his career would be so different if he was drafted by an Eastern Conf. team.

 

[pollardsvision]

I don't know much about these prospects.

So, am I right that the options for CHA at 9 will be a couple of white dudes, an undersized SG, and if we're really, really lucky, another athletic tweener F from AZ with no offensive game?

Or is this LaVine kid the one we need to be looking at?

McDermott would be my nightmare pick. He can shoot,that's it. Clifford demands much more in his system. They already have a defense guy that can't score. They don't need an offense guy who can't defend.

If I was Charlotte I would go with Stauskas in the #9 slot. I think he would fill a need of an outside shooter, but he is also able to run the pick and roll and drive to the basket. Charlotte needs a shooter if they are going to run with McBob and MKG to spread the floor.

I'm quite partial to him, but I know it's my bias. The Hornets are in a spot where they can get best player available. Can't remember the last time that was the case. I like Payne and Harris as well. Stauskas has some growing to do on defense if he's going to thrive in Clifford's scheme, but the growth he displayed from his freshman to sophomore year was unreal. No reason he couldn't continue to grow with that kind of work ethic.

I'm biased in the other direction, but if Jordan (well, I guess Cho now) takes white dudes from the B10 that played 2 years in college with back to back lottery picks, I'm going to be a little upset.

Look on the bright side....can't be any worse than the Sean May or Raymond Felton or Gerald Henderson from right here on tobacco road Are you more upset that they are white or that they come from the B1G? Or that they each just played two years?

Good point.

The B10 thing isn't a real concern. Just tossed it out for you.

Not sure how to order the rest, but the combination of Jordan falling for a productive college player that might not have what it takes, physically, for the NBA makes me nervous.

I could be talked into the kid though. If he can shoot enough to help Al and the Hornets find a way to 5-seed and a glorious 1st round playoff win in the next 2 years, that's good enough for me.

 

[thecatch]

You can win a title with Love as your best player.

Could not disagree with that more, and further, I don't think any of Love's biggest supporters would even make such a claim.

This is silly. In the last decade the only teams to have won a title had Lebron, Duncan, dirk, Kobe, and Pierce (?) as their "best player." So, except for the celtics ring, you needed to have one of the four best players in a generation on your team. Ok, well then.

Is Love in that class, in your mind?

 

[encaitar]

Kevin Love is the perfect stretch 4. One of the best rebounders in the NBA. One of the best deep shooters in the NBA. His defense sure lacks a little, but if Dirk is a guy you can win a championship with, then Love certainly is too. We have yet to see how good he can be with the right teammates around him. 1-2 mid lottery picks and a couple of late 1st round selections is not too much to pay for Love IMO.

 

[Abraham]

You can win a title with Love as your best player.

Could not disagree with that more, and further, I don't think any of Love's biggest supporters would even make such a claim.

This is silly. In the last decade the only teams to have won a title had Lebron, Duncan, dirk, Kobe, and Pierce (?) as their "best player." So, except for the celtics ring, you needed to have one of the four best players in a generation on your team. Ok, well then.

Is Love in that class, in your mind?

The guys in that class weren't in that class until they won a title. The headline on Dirk was that he couldn't win a ring. Then he won one and he's in the group.

There are a lot of players good enough to be the best player on a winner. Howard, Love, Paul, George, Rose, Durant, Aldrige, Brow...there is a long list of people that are good enough to be the best player on a winner...if only they would win one.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Ibaka day to day (!?!!??!?!?)

Thunder:

“The abundance of blood and therefore swelling in Serge's calf has reduced substantially and unexpectedly, allowing a level of movement and stability not thought possible after the initial diagnosis. Based on both imaging and physical exam, the considerable swelling in the calf indicated the likelihood of a certain degree of injury, and that established the original time frame for recovery.
At present, Serge has yet to complete a full basketball workout, but is walking and doing light basketball drills. With this new information, and in an effort to keep his status current, we are now listing him as day-to-day with the understanding that there is a possibility for him to play in this series.”

Woj now says "strong possibility" Ibaka plays in Game 3.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You can win a title with Love as your best player.

Could not disagree with that more, and further, I don't think any of Love's biggest supporters would even make such a claim.

He needs a 1B with him, like every championship team does. LeBron has Wade/Bosh, Duncan had Parker/Ginobli, Gasol and Shaq had Kobe, Pierce had Allen and KG, etc.

The only team recently not to have a top tier sidekick were the Mavs or the Pistons who didn't even have a 1A.

So yes, you can win with Love as your best player but you're going to need another great player with him.

 

[thecatch]

You can win a title with Love as your best player.

Could not disagree with that more, and further, I don't think any of Love's biggest supporters would even make such a claim.

He needs a 1B with him, like every championship team does. LeBron has Wade/Bosh, Duncan had Parker/Ginobli, Gasol and Shaq had Kobe, Pierce had Allen and KG, etc.

The only team recently not to have a top tier sidekick were the Mavs or the Pistons who didn't even have a 1A.

So yes, you can win with Love as your best player but you're going to need another great player with him.

I'm not sure we disagree that much. IMO he's the Bosh/Manu/Allen sidekick but not the best player (Lebron Duncan etc.).

 

[Doug B]

It'd be hard because of LeBron/Durant/Davis in the league ...

No chance the Davis you're mentioning is Anthony Davis, is it?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You can win a title with Love as your best player.

Could not disagree with that more, and further, I don't think any of Love's biggest supporters would even make such a claim.

He needs a 1B with him, like every championship team does. LeBron has Wade/Bosh, Duncan had Parker/Ginobli, Gasol and Shaq had Kobe, Pierce had Allen and KG, etc.

The only team recently not to have a top tier sidekick were the Mavs or the Pistons who didn't even have a 1A.

So yes, you can win with Love as your best player but you're going to need another great player with him.

I'm not sure we disagree that much. IMO he's the Bosh/Manu/Allen sidekick but not the best player (Lebron Duncan etc.).

That kind of goes against your argument then. No one is going to say that he could win a title with a bunch of scrubs. No one can.

Put Love on a team with say, Wall, Marc Gasol and some quality role players and you have a legit contender with Love being the best player.

 

[Abraham]

You can win a title with Love as your best player.

Could not disagree with that more, and further, I don't think any of Love's biggest supporters would even make such a claim.

He needs a 1B with him, like every championship team does. LeBron has Wade/Bosh, Duncan had Parker/Ginobli, Gasol and Shaq had Kobe, Pierce had Allen and KG, etc.

The only team recently not to have a top tier sidekick were the Mavs or the Pistons who didn't even have a 1A.

So yes, you can win with Love as your best player but you're going to need another great player with him.

94 Rockets as well, but your point is spot on.

 

[The Commish]

I don't know much about these prospects.

So, am I right that the options for CHA at 9 will be a couple of white dudes, an undersized SG, and if we're really, really lucky, another athletic tweener F from AZ with no offensive game?

Or is this LaVine kid the one we need to be looking at?

McDermott would be my nightmare pick. He can shoot,that's it. Clifford demands much more in his system. They already have a defense guy that can't score. They don't need an offense guy who can't defend.

If I was Charlotte I would go with Stauskas in the #9 slot. I think he would fill a need of an outside shooter, but he is also able to run the pick and roll and drive to the basket. Charlotte needs a shooter if they are going to run with McBob and MKG to spread the floor.

I'm quite partial to him, but I know it's my bias. The Hornets are in a spot where they can get best player available. Can't remember the last time that was the case. I like Payne and Harris as well. Stauskas has some growing to do on defense if he's going to thrive in Clifford's scheme, but the growth he displayed from his freshman to sophomore year was unreal. No reason he couldn't continue to grow with that kind of work ethic.

I'm biased in the other direction, but if Jordan (well, I guess Cho now) takes white dudes from the B10 that played 2 years in college with back to back lottery picks, I'm going to be a little upset.

Look on the bright side....can't be any worse than the Sean May or Raymond Felton or Gerald Henderson from right here on tobacco road Are you more upset that they are white or that they come from the B1G? Or that they each just played two years?

Good point.

The B10 thing isn't a real concern. Just tossed it out for you.

Not sure how to order the rest, but the combination of Jordan falling for a productive college player that might not have what it takes, physically, for the NBA makes me nervous.

I could be talked into the kid though. If he can shoot enough to help Al and the Hornets find a way to 5-seed and a glorious 1st round playoff win in the next 2 years, that's good enough for me.

Of the guys I mentioned Stauskus, Harris and Payne, physically, they should be fine. I think the concern with Zeller is legit though. It was clear in college he didn't like contact and he was always significantly larger than those he was playing against. These three seem to be fine physically. Payne isn't afraid of contact and both Harris and Stauskus can create for themselves. Of course, I'm game for a trade down too if there's really no value at #9.

 

[thecatch]

You can win a title with Love as your best player.

Could not disagree with that more, and further, I don't think any of Love's biggest supporters would even make such a claim.

He needs a 1B with him, like every championship team does. LeBron has Wade/Bosh, Duncan had Parker/Ginobli, Gasol and Shaq had Kobe, Pierce had Allen and KG, etc.

The only team recently not to have a top tier sidekick were the Mavs or the Pistons who didn't even have a 1A.

So yes, you can win with Love as your best player but you're going to need another great player with him.

I'm not sure we disagree that much. IMO he's the Bosh/Manu/Allen sidekick but not the best player (Lebron Duncan etc.).

That kind of goes against your argument then. No one is going to say that he could win a title with a bunch of scrubs. No one can.

No, it doesn't - nobody would consider Manu, etc to be their teams' best player. If you want to use the "1A/1B" distinction, instead of "best-second best", that's a semantic distinction I'm not going to argue.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You can win a title with Love as your best player.

Could not disagree with that more, and further, I don't think any of Love's biggest supporters would even make such a claim.

He needs a 1B with him, like every championship team does. LeBron has Wade/Bosh, Duncan had Parker/Ginobli, Gasol and Shaq had Kobe, Pierce had Allen and KG, etc.

The only team recently not to have a top tier sidekick were the Mavs or the Pistons who didn't even have a 1A.

So yes, you can win with Love as your best player but you're going to need another great player with him.

I'm not sure we disagree that much. IMO he's the Bosh/Manu/Allen sidekick but not the best player (Lebron Duncan etc.).

That kind of goes against your argument then. No one is going to say that he could win a title with a bunch of scrubs. No one can.

No, it doesn't - nobody would consider Manu, etc to be their teams' best player. If you want to use the "1A/1B" distinction, instead of "best-second best", that's a semantic distinction I'm not going to argue.

Call it what ever you want. Love with a couple other very good players who are just not quite as good as him (which is a long list of very good players), could definitely win a title. I put Love as somewhere in the top 6-7 range in the league. Give him a couple guys in the 15-20 range and you've got a contender.

 

[Premier]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

He should've made the playoffs by now. The west is great, but it's not like Memphis is 1983 Philly or something.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

Today they are worlds apart... I'd take Love over Bosh without thinking twice.

 

[Abraham]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

He should've made the playoffs by now. The west is great, but it's not like Memphis is 1983 Philly or something.

They've been just about as bad as when KG was there.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

Ibaka day to day (!?!!??!?!?)

Thunder:

“The abundance of blood and therefore swelling in Serge's calf has reduced substantially and unexpectedly, allowing a level of movement and stability not thought possible after the initial diagnosis. Based on both imaging and physical exam, the considerable swelling in the calf indicated the likelihood of a certain degree of injury, and that established the original time frame for recovery.
At present, Serge has yet to complete a full basketball workout, but is walking and doing light basketball drills. With this new information, and in an effort to keep his status current, we are now listing him as day-to-day with the understanding that there is a possibility for him to play in this series.”

Woj now says "strong possibility" Ibaka plays in Game 3.

I always prefer both teams at full strength regardless of which side I'm on. Should provide quite a boost inside for OKC.. crowd will respond up there and I expect them to come out hot.

I expect the Spurs to respond in kind with a great effort, take 1 of 2 up there and end it in 5.

Certainly surprised at this development though.

 

[Gr00vus]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

He should've made the playoffs by now. The west is great, but it's not like Memphis is 1983 Philly or something.

They've been just about as bad as when KG was there.

They went to the playoffs with Garnett.

 

[thecatch]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

He should've made the playoffs by now. The west is great, but it's not like Memphis is 1983 Philly or something.

They've been just about as bad as when KG was there.

KG lead them to the playoffs 8 straight years and Love has already had more losing seasons in MN than KG did in his 12 seasons there.

 

[Freelove]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

He should've made the playoffs by now. The west is great, but it's not like Memphis is 1983 Philly or something.

They've been just about as bad as when KG was there.

KG lead them to the playoffs 8 straight years...

Including 50+ wins four years out of five, and a top seed.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

He should've made the playoffs by now. The west is great, but it's not like Memphis is 1983 Philly or something.

They've been just about as bad as when KG was there.

They went to the playoffs with Garnett.

Very briefly for all but one year.

 

[Doug B]

They went to the playoffs with Garnett.

Conference Finals once, IIRC. 2003 or 2004 (without Googling)?

 

[Freelove]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

He should've made the playoffs by now. The west is great, but it's not like Memphis is 1983 Philly or something.

They've been just about as bad as when KG was there.

They went to the playoffs with Garnett.

Very briefly for all but one year.

That's still light years ahead of Love's track record.

Mostly because KG was legitimately one of the top players in the league, and wasn't totally useless for half the game.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

He should've made the playoffs by now. The west is great, but it's not like Memphis is 1983 Philly or something.

They've been just about as bad as when KG was there.

They went to the playoffs with Garnett.

Very briefly for all but one year.

That's still light years ahead of Love's track record.

Mostly because KG was legitimately one of the top players in the league, and wasn't totally useless for half the game.

And that he wasn't saddled with complete trash like Love has been. KG teammates weren't great by any means either but they were certainly better.

KG >>> Love. No question.

 

[Premier]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

Today they are worlds apart... I'd take Love over Bosh without thinking twice.

I mean Bosh in his prime. Not the 3-point chucking fruitcake he is today.

 

[pollardsvision]

Yeah, Garnett's run was pretty impressive. By the time he was Love's age (25), he'd notched a pair of 50 win seasons and 6 straight playoff appearances.

That doesn't have any impact on Love, his situation, and what he could do with some decent teammates though.

 

[Freelove]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

Today they are worlds apart... I'd take Love over Bosh without thinking twice.

Bosh's 06-07 Raptors team had about a quarter of the talent that Love's current supporting cast has. Love will always be more popular, because he's a way bigger fantasy star, and that's about as deeply as ninety nine out of a hundred NBA fans can understand the game. But he has yet to even come close to proving that his massive defensive liabilities don't full-on prevent his team from succeeding, at even a minimal playoff level.

Talk of him leading a team to a title at this point in his career is insane. He might learn to work around his limitations better, but to this point in his career, 100% of the evidence says that his presence hurts a team's chances of getting to the postseason when he's an alpha male. I don't think he has any chance of success unless he's a clear #2, plus teamed up with a rim defender who can minimize the damage he causes.

We'll see, but so far the evidence is quite damning.

 

[No. 16]

I guess on the Warriors, Curry would hold "best player status" on the team but of all the possible Love landing spots GSW is the best fit. If I'm Love I'm forcing my way to GS for a deal that leaves Curry, Klay, Bogut, Iggy, and Draymond together.

Lee, Barnes, and whatever the hell it takes.... I'd also be willing to include Iggy if it means keeping Klay and Dray.

for

Love

PG Curry

SG Klay

SF Iggy/Draymond

PF Love

C Bogut

That team can certainly challenge for a title until Bogut gets hurt...and then yah.

 

[pollardsvision]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

Today they are worlds apart... I'd take Love over Bosh without thinking twice.

Bosh's 06-07 Raptors team had about a quarter of the talent that Love's current supporting cast has.

The 13-14 T-Wolves would've won 47 games in the East that year too.

And I believe you mean Calderon's 06-07 Raptors. There was one 10.0+ WS season notched in Bosh's entire TOR tenure. Bosh didn't put it up. Calderon did in 06-07. (Love just put up a 14.3)

 

[metoo]

Ibaka is now day to day.

http://nba.si.com/2014/05/23/serge-ibaka-calf-injury-update-thunder-spurs/

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

Today they are worlds apart... I'd take Love over Bosh without thinking twice.

Bosh's 06-07 Raptors team had about a quarter of the talent that Love's current supporting cast has. Love will always be more popular, because he's a way bigger fantasy star, and that's about as deeply as ninety nine out of a hundred NBA fans can understand the game. But he has yet to even come close to proving that his massive defensive liabilities don't full-on prevent his team from succeeding, at even a minimal playoff level.

Talk of him leading a team to a title at this point in his career is insane. He might learn to work around his limitations better, but to this point in his career, 100% of the evidence says that his presence hurts a team's chances of getting to the postseason when he's an alpha male. I don't think he has any chance of success unless he's a clear #2, plus teamed up with a rim defender who can minimize the damage he causes.

We'll see, but so far the evidence is quite damning.

oof.

The team that won 9 of their last 13 games without Bosh to get that top seed? The team that was 10th and 12th in O/D rating? Two top 10 PGs? Quality role players? That team had far more talent than anything Love has seen.

That said, that team wasn't good. They played in a terrible division in a terrible conference.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Yea....Love is in the Bosh category for me. Not even close to the Lebron/Durant stratosphere.

Today they are worlds apart... I'd take Love over Bosh without thinking twice.

I mean Bosh in his prime. Not the 3-point chucking fruitcake he is today.

Just clarifying.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Ibaka is now day to day.

http://nba.si.com/2014/05/23/serge-ibaka-calf-injury-update-thunder-spurs/

Just saw this... Won't impact the end result though.

 

[Abraham]

The rusillo article about the top 4 prospects is really interesting. I tend to agree with the overall assessment.

 

[pollardsvision]

The rusillo article about the top 4 prospects is really interesting. I tend to agree with the overall assessment.

Not very glowing assessments of anyone outside of Embiid.

 

[Premier]

Great read. Would love to know who scout 1 was.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Has their ever been a big with back issues that stopped having back issues for good?

 

[Abraham]

Has their ever been a big with back issues that stopped having back issues for good?

I think the thing is that he doesn't have back issues, he had one incident.

 

[sports_fan]

you guys ready for some basketball tonight?

 

[Daywalker]

Has their ever been a big with back issues that stopped having back issues for good?

I think the thing is that he doesn't have back issues, he had one incident.

The rusillo article about the top 4 prospects is really interesting. I tend to agree with the overall assessment.

Not very glowing assessments of anyone outside of Embiid.

The Parker-Pierce comparisons are very complimentary. HOF'er with a title.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

The Parker-Pierce comparisons are very complimentary. HOF'er with a title.

That's what Ive said about Parker every-time I watch him. Paul Pierce -esque. Even has very similar stats.

 

[The Goat]

Okay, Thaddeus Young and eight second round draft picks over the next two years...for Kevin Love. And that's my final only offer.

 

[pollardsvision]

Has their ever been a big with back issues that stopped having back issues for good?

I think the thing is that he doesn't have back issues, he had one incident.

The rusillo article about the top 4 prospects is really interesting. I tend to agree with the overall assessment.

Not very glowing assessments of anyone outside of Embiid.

The Parker-Pierce comparisons are very complimentary. HOF'er with a title.

They definitely made Parker sound like the 2nd best player in the draft, but were still fairly critical. All mentioned the defense, S1 didn't trust his shot and thinks he might be selfish.

A very good scorer that doesn't/can't play defense is still plenty valuable, so obviously teams are going to be pretty excited to land him.

My comment was more regarding how the expectations of this class seemed to have changed so much from a year ago (maybe that was just my expectations that were off).

Reading that made me wonder, "so this is why half the league's fan bases wanted their teams to lose every game this season?"

 

[Abraham]

Agreed. But I think it was that expectations were unreasonable in the first place. The author makes the point that five months ago the thought was that there were four guys in this draft that could make a lottery team a playoff team when in reality there are only 10 guys in the league that could do that.

I think there will be at least half a dozen eventual all stars in this group and another dozen or so guys that end up as rotation players for a dozen years. But they are 19 year olds, they have flaws.

 

[pollardsvision]

Yesterday was a big day for the Hornets. They are also getting the Charlotte Hornets history and stats back. Doesn't seem like a big deal, but it kind of is.

So, when Kemba (or Stauskas) is trying to become the franchise's all-time leading scorer one day, it'll be the legendary Dell Curry's 9800 he's chasing. Not Gerald Wallace.

We can get names of greats like Muggsy, Tripucka, Glen Rice, and Grandmama into the same franchise record books with the Okafor, Felton, and the Captain. And get deadbeats like Chris Paul and David West out of there.

Basketball-reference.com needs to get this #### up-dated ASAP.

 

[pollardsvision]

3 team trade. Who says no?

Utah gets: #2 pick for their beloved Mormon Paul Pierce

MIL gets: #5 and #9 picks

CHA gets: Gordon Hayward and the big contract he's about to get

 

[Abraham]

Not awful although i think the hornets would need a little more.

 

[pollardsvision]

Not awful although i think the hornets would need a little more.

Yeah, tough call.

It might make more sense to just overpay for Lance Stephenson. It's a huge risk, but he might be exactly what CHA needs.