*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (5 Viewers)

[NutterButter]

If indeed the impossible happens (IMO) and Lebron leaves

That word - I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Freelove]

the lesson in the nba is that a good coach can beat three hall of famers with a great scheme and ball movement...

...and three hall of famers of his own.

Well, maybe two. But I'll bet Ginobili goes, too.

 

[NutterButter]

Interesting. If Lebron goes back to CLE> Godbless and thanks for the rings. I can understand the Allure of going home although if a guy crapped on me the way the owner of the Cavs did, I am not sure I go back.

The big issue with the CLE team is they will not play Defense the way the heat did, and I think that makes the difference getting out of the East.

With Wiggins and Lebron, you don't know how good their defense will be. Just having Lebron alone is huge defensive upgrade for most teams.

 

[NutterButter]

the lesson in the nba is that a good coach can beat three hall of famers with a great scheme and ball movement...

...and three hall of famers of his own.

Well, maybe two. But I'll bet Ginobili goes, too.

Don't discount the HOF potential of the finals MVP.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Maybe you've got a long list of NBA stars who missed basically two full seasons with knee injuries and then returned at or near their previous level of performance. I've never seen even one but it's possible I just don't know about them. You got some examples?

This was a sincere question, btw. Are there any examples that give the Bulls hope?

I don't have a clue. So are you saying that Rose's career is essentially over or that he'll just be a shell of his former self?

The latter.

I hate to say this- really- but the example that keeps coming to mind for me is Gilbert Arenas. Explosive PG who relies on a quick first step and gets to the paint and the line shreds his knees and falls off the map. Arenas was 26 when he suffered his catastrophic injury and Rose was only 23, so that's working in Rose's favor I guess. OTOH, Rose re-injured the knee at 25. He also doesn't have a decent three point shot like Arenas did, so that's another problem (my uneducated guess is that range probably survives injury better than explosiveness and can compensate for its absence).

ETA: Also it obviously helps that Rose isn't a complete idiot who would bring a gun to a locker room, as far as I can tell.

 

[Short Corner]

the lesson in the nba is that a good coach can beat three hall of famers with a great scheme and ball movement...

...and three hall of famers of his own.

Well, maybe two. But I'll bet Ginobili goes, too.

Manu is a lock.

 

[Gr00vus]

Fictitious things James says to Riley when they meet today:

"Pat, I told you I'd re-sign with you last - I lied."

 

[SWC]

i am not saying that the spurs are not loaded but the scheme made miami look horrible it seemed like every shot was wide open and the heat were mailing it in most of the time i know wade is old and slow now but still they just looked whipped and spoeleostra had nothing it was pretty sad especially for a guy some say is one of the top coaches in the game take that to the bank bromigos

 

[pollardsvision]

There is no way that is true. I will be speechless. Without speech, I will be.

Here's how that conversation should go from Minnesota's end.

"Hi Flip, we'd like to offer you Andrew Wig.."

"YES. NO TAKEBACKS. SEND THE PAPERWORK WE SAID 'YES'."

Didn't they flat out reject the #1 pick before the draft?

It was never offered, and there's no way MIN would've rejected.

 

[SWC]

he would say pat i told you i would re sign with you my friend is dead tired take that to the bank brohan

 

[Timmay]

Fictitious things James says to Riley when they meet today:

"Pat, I told you I'd re-sign with you last - I lied."

Isnt this the same thing he did to Cleveland the first time around before he signed with Miami? Im sensing a pattern here.

 

[pollardsvision]

This will be funny when Love bolts in 12 months, leaving Lebron in CLE with no Love or Wiggins, and every asset shippped out.

 

[SWC]

if you are labron why not just sign a one year deal no matter where you go

 

[pollardsvision]

if you are labron why not just sign a one year deal no matter where you go

I assume that's what he'll do.

Though going to CLE is tricky for that plan.

 

[RUSF18]

If you're Minnesota, what's better for you: Wiggins and whatever else CLE can add (draft picks which will be at the bottom of he first round if CLE has LeBron and Love) or a Hershal Walker type deal from Boston: 5 #1 picks over the next 4 years (including potential good Brooklyn picks) and a couple young "nice" players (Sullinger, Bradley, Smart or Young) and Boston takes Kevin Martin's contract.

Boston's picks thru 2018:

2015 BOS #1

2015 LAC #1

2015 PHI #1 (lottery protected, turns into 2 #2s if PHI in lottery)

2016 BOS #1

2016 NETs #1

2016 CLE #1 (top 10 protected)

2017 the higher of BOS #1 or NETS #1

2018 BOS #1

2018 NETS #1

Although, I would think Ainge is trying to move some of those picks for a player Minnesota would want and add some picks to the deal for Love.

Probably Wiggins from the Cavs over all the picks from Boston. Minnesota needs a major asset to sell the fans on/build around. The likelihood of any of those picks being a player of Wiggins' caliber is pretty small. Even if it ends up being equal "value" in the NBA you take the dollar over four quarters.

Your latter scenario would make more sense.

 

[NutterButter]

Maybe you've got a long list of NBA stars who missed basically two full seasons with knee injuries and then returned at or near their previous level of performance. I've never seen even one but it's possible I just don't know about them. You got some examples?

This was a sincere question, btw. Are there any examples that give the Bulls hope?

I don't have a clue. So are you saying that Rose's career is essentially over or that he'll just be a shell of his former self?

The latter.

I hate to say this- really- but the example that keeps coming to mind for me is Gilbert Arenas. Explosive PG who relies on a quick first step and gets to the paint and the line shreds his knees and falls off the map. Arenas was 26 when he suffered his catastrophic injury and Rose was only 23, so that's working in Rose's favor I guess. OTOH, Rose re-injured the knee at 25. He also doesn't have a decent three point shot like Arenas did, so that's another problem (my uneducated guess is that range probably survives injury better than explosiveness and can compensate for its absence).

ETA: Also it obviously helps that Rose isn't a complete idiot who would bring a gun to a locker room, as far as I can tell.

I guess there have been some guys like Jeffeson, Harrington, West, Crawford and Lowry that have turned out ok after acl surgery. Even if Rose is just good, not great, I'm taking them over the Heat. Point still being that you have a pretty good shot of making the NBA finals vs no shot with the Lakers or Knicks.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

This will be funny when Love bolts in 12 months, leaving Lebron in CLE with no Love or Wiggins, and every asset shippped out.

As covered above, Love already said he would sign long term if Lebron were here.

 

[CurlyNight]

By what date does the signings have to be done? Some dude on CNN is betting his house basically that Le B goes to Cleveland. He meets with the Heat today.

 

[pollardsvision]

Remember when a one year deal from LeBron wasn't going to work for Riles

 

[Premier]

The Swc shtick was a lot better when he didn't post 2000 times a day.

 

[Timmay]

Maybe you've got a long list of NBA stars who missed basically two full seasons with knee injuries and then returned at or near their previous level of performance. I've never seen even one but it's possible I just don't know about them. You got some examples?

This was a sincere question, btw. Are there any examples that give the Bulls hope?

I don't have a clue. So are you saying that Rose's career is essentially over or that he'll just be a shell of his former self?

The latter.

I hate to say this- really- but the example that keeps coming to mind for me is Gilbert Arenas. Explosive PG who relies on a quick first step and gets to the paint and the line shreds his knees and falls off the map. Arenas was 26 when he suffered his catastrophic injury and Rose was only 23, so that's working in Rose's favor I guess. OTOH, Rose re-injured the knee at 25. He also doesn't have a decent three point shot like Arenas did, so that's another problem (my uneducated guess is that range probably survives injury better than explosiveness and can compensate for its absence).

ETA: Also it obviously helps that Rose isn't a complete idiot who would bring a gun to a locker room, as far as I can tell.

I guess there have been some guys like Jeffeson, Harrington, West, Crawford and Lowry that have turned out ok after acl surgery. Even if Rose is just good, not great, I'm taking them over the Heat. Point still being that you have a pretty good shot of making the NBA finals vs no shot with the Lakers or Knicks.

Baron Davis and Kyle Lowry would be the best 2 examples to use when comparing them to Rose, who also suffered Torn ACL's. It happened to work out for them. Who knows how Rose will be.

 

[Todem]

Remember when a one year deal from LeBron wasn't going to work for Riles

Link? Quote from Riley?

 

[Captain Quinoa]

The Swc shtick was a lot better when he didn't post 2000 times a day.

Also not keen on the 'Guy from Milwaukee busting on Cleveland' shtick.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Lebron wants his opt out to correspond with Durant's contact ending, so a 3 year deal with an opt out at 2 makes sense for him (and riley only getting a one year commitment from lebron doesn't work for Riles).

If lebron and durant team up after 2 years, then that should be interesting.

bump

 

[NutterButter]

Lebron wants his opt out to correspond with Durant's contact ending, so a 3 year deal with an opt out at 2 makes sense for him (and riley only getting a one year commitment from lebron doesn't work for Riles).

If lebron and durant team up after 2 years, then that should be interesting.

bump

Nice. I knew i read from some some heat fan.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Maybe you've got a long list of NBA stars who missed basically two full seasons with knee injuries and then returned at or near their previous level of performance. I've never seen even one but it's possible I just don't know about them. You got some examples?

This was a sincere question, btw. Are there any examples that give the Bulls hope?

I don't have a clue. So are you saying that Rose's career is essentially over or that he'll just be a shell of his former self?

The latter.

I hate to say this- really- but the example that keeps coming to mind for me is Gilbert Arenas. Explosive PG who relies on a quick first step and gets to the paint and the line shreds his knees and falls off the map. Arenas was 26 when he suffered his catastrophic injury and Rose was only 23, so that's working in Rose's favor I guess. OTOH, Rose re-injured the knee at 25. He also doesn't have a decent three point shot like Arenas did, so that's another problem (my uneducated guess is that range probably survives injury better than explosiveness and can compensate for its absence).

ETA: Also it obviously helps that Rose isn't a complete idiot who would bring a gun to a locker room, as far as I can tell.

I guess there have been some guys like Jeffeson, Harrington, West, Crawford and Lowry that have turned out ok after acl surgery. Even if Rose is just good, not great, I'm taking them over the Heat. Point still being that you have a pretty good shot of making the NBA finals vs no shot with the Lakers or Knicks.

Baron Davis and Kyle Lowry would be the best 2 examples to use when comparing them to Rose, who also suffered Torn ACL's. It happened to work out for them. Who knows how Rose will be.

Lowry is a good one. Davis is kind of a weird case, he was in college right? Obviously there's added concern with Rose compared to those guys because of the second injury and missing much more time.

I think people are making a mistake when they project free agents onto a Bulls' roster with a healthy Rose, though. There's a point where you can't just assume a player returns to his previous level because it's much more likely that he'll drop off significantly. For example if Bynum signed with someone we wouldn't just assume they'd be getting 2011-2012 Bynum, right? I think that's where we should be with Rose too. In fact Bynum's played a lot more basketball than Rose over the last three seasons.

 

[pollardsvision]

Remember when a one year deal from LeBron wasn't going to work for Riles

Link? Quote from Riley?

Lebron wants his opt out to correspond with Durant's contact ending, so a 3 year deal with an opt out at 2 makes sense for him (and riley only getting a one year commitment from lebron doesn't work for Riles).

If lebron and durant team up after 2 years, then that should be interesting.

bump

Thanks Rud.

Riley never said it. It was just a funny thing a poster said.

I do chuckle thinking about Rileysaying that to LeBron.

 

[Worm]

Becoming more of an NBA fan lately. Lots of interesting stuff going on right now.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Chris Haynes ‏@ChrisBHaynes 4m

Free agent LeBron James along with his agent Rich Paul will meet face-to-face with the Miami Heat today at 3pm (PST), league source says.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I do chuckle thinking about Rileysaying that to LeBron.

Riles on his hands and knees begging for him to stay would be great to see.

 

[Bobcat10]

It's all going down at 3pm PST/6pm EST.

Predictions?

Lebron walks out of it with a 1/2 yr agreement with Heat?

Riley walks out and says Lebron is leaving?

I don't see alot of wiggle room here.

 

[cheese]

if you are labron why not just sign a one year deal no matter where you go

If he went to Cleveland and left again in 1 year he wouldn't survive it. Might not be an exaggeration.

 

[Kev4029]

Maybe you've got a long list of NBA stars who missed basically two full seasons with knee injuries and then returned at or near their previous level of performance. I've never seen even one but it's possible I just don't know about them. You got some examples?

This was a sincere question, btw. Are there any examples that give the Bulls hope?

I don't have a clue. So are you saying that Rose's career is essentially over or that he'll just be a shell of his former self?

The latter.

I hate to say this- really- but the example that keeps coming to mind for me is Gilbert Arenas. Explosive PG who relies on a quick first step and gets to the paint and the line shreds his knees and falls off the map. Arenas was 26 when he suffered his catastrophic injury and Rose was only 23, so that's working in Rose's favor I guess. OTOH, Rose re-injured the knee at 25. He also doesn't have a decent three point shot like Arenas did, so that's another problem (my uneducated guess is that range probably survives injury better than explosiveness and can compensate for its absence).

ETA: Also it obviously helps that Rose isn't a complete idiot who would bring a gun to a locker room, as far as I can tell.

I guess there have been some guys like Jeffeson, Harrington, West, Crawford and Lowry that have turned out ok after acl surgery. Even if Rose is just good, not great, I'm taking them over the Heat. Point still being that you have a pretty good shot of making the NBA finals vs no shot with the Lakers or Knicks.

Baron Davis and Kyle Lowry would be the best 2 examples to use when comparing them to Rose, who also suffered Torn ACL's. It happened to work out for them. Who knows how Rose will be.

Lowry is a good one. Davis is kind of a weird case, he was in college right? Obviously there's added concern with Rose compared to those guys because of the second injury and missing much more time.

I think people are making a mistake when they project free agents onto a Bulls' roster with a healthy Rose, though. There's a point where you can't just assume a player returns to his previous level because it's much more likely that he'll drop off significantly. For example if Bynum signed with someone we wouldn't just assume they'd be getting 2011-2012 Bynum, right? I think that's where we should be with Rose too. In fact Bynum's played a lot more basketball than Rose over the last three seasons.

Rose came back last year and was absolutely terrible, some of that was probably just rust, but he didn't look explosive. I would put more weight in those 10 games than his play from 2.5 years ago when he was still healthy.

 

[thecatch]

It's all going down at 3pm PST/6pm EST.

Predictions?

Lebron walks out of it with a 1/2 yr agreement with Heat?

Riley walks out and says Lebron is leaving?

I don't see alot of wiggle room here.

A 41 game contract would be a very interesting play here.

 

[Todem]

First Take is really pimping Bosh going to the Rockets and Melo joining Lebron and Wade.

Plausible. Got to admit, very plausible.

 

[sporthenry]

First Take is really pimping Bosh going to the Rockets and Melo joining Lebron and Wade.

Plausible. Got to admit, very plausible.

 

[sporthenry]

First Take is really pimping Bosh going to the Rockets and Melo joining Lebron and Wade.

Plausible. Got to admit, very plausible.

Anyone have First Take on to listen to these two clowns?

 

[Abraham]

I don't think that necessarily improves Miami although Melo is a better player. As a rockets fan, i would be ecstatic with that result.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Maybe you've got a long list of NBA stars who missed basically two full seasons with knee injuries and then returned at or near their previous level of performance. I've never seen even one but it's possible I just don't know about them. You got some examples?

This was a sincere question, btw. Are there any examples that give the Bulls hope?

I don't have a clue. So are you saying that Rose's career is essentially over or that he'll just be a shell of his former self?

The latter.

I hate to say this- really- but the example that keeps coming to mind for me is Gilbert Arenas. Explosive PG who relies on a quick first step and gets to the paint and the line shreds his knees and falls off the map. Arenas was 26 when he suffered his catastrophic injury and Rose was only 23, so that's working in Rose's favor I guess. OTOH, Rose re-injured the knee at 25. He also doesn't have a decent three point shot like Arenas did, so that's another problem (my uneducated guess is that range probably survives injury better than explosiveness and can compensate for its absence).

ETA: Also it obviously helps that Rose isn't a complete idiot who would bring a gun to a locker room, as far as I can tell.

I guess there have been some guys like Jeffeson, Harrington, West, Crawford and Lowry that have turned out ok after acl surgery. Even if Rose is just good, not great, I'm taking them over the Heat. Point still being that you have a pretty good shot of making the NBA finals vs no shot with the Lakers or Knicks.

Baron Davis and Kyle Lowry would be the best 2 examples to use when comparing them to Rose, who also suffered Torn ACL's. It happened to work out for them. Who knows how Rose will be.

We saw evidence of how Rose looked after his torn ACL from last year's preseason games and the regular season games before he got hurt. Although Rose struggled, it wasn't due to "losing a step" or reduced athleticism. He just looked extremely rusty.

The second injury, of course, was not an ACL but a torn meniscus. And it was on the other knee. An example of a player recently coming back from a similar injury is Russell Westbrook.

I have no idea what Rose's career will look like and I don't think anyone can be confident they know.

 

[pollardsvision]

if you are labron why not just sign a one year deal no matter where you go

If he went to Cleveland and left again in 1 year he wouldn't survive it. Might not be an exaggeration.

This is still what I have a hard time wrapping my mind around. He probably can't leave CLE again, which means he's putting the rest of his career in the hands of Dan Gilbert and the Cleveland ####### Cavaliers.

I don't care how many assets they have at the moment. That's scary.

You got 2 years until Durant forms his own super team and before Davis is ready to wreck the league.

If you are going the long-term route, I don't see how you place your bet on the Cavs.

No offense, Cavs fans.

(Though, like a fat chick that hates another fat chick that lands a hot guy, I kind of hate any small market team that has some fortune shine on their ###)

 

[Todem]

First Take is really pimping Bosh going to the Rockets and Melo joining Lebron and Wade.

Plausible. Got to admit, very plausible.

Anyone have First Take on to listen to these two clowns?

They are clowns....but even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

 

[NutterButter]

First Take is really pimping Bosh going to the Rockets and Melo joining Lebron and Wade.

Plausible. Got to admit, very plausible.

Anyone have First Take on to listen to these two clowns?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Becoming more of an NBA fan lately. Lots of interesting stuff going on right now.

Always good to have more ACC folks around. Welcome to the bizarre world where Josh McRoberts is better than Raymond Felton.

 

[Premier]

Why are people seemingly convinced Lebron makes his decision tonight? Seems to me like this is just a "show me the plan" type of meeting.

 

[Todem]

I don't think that necessarily improves Miami although Melo is a better player. As a rockets fan, i would be ecstatic with that result.

I agree. I don't think it improves Miami and the type of game they play. I would miss Bosh. Great guy, solid team player, great head on his shoulders.

But Melo can do it all offensively. But what about the defense??? That's where I have some issues. Will he all of a sudden buy into Miami's way of defense. It takes tons of energy and work. Will Melo put in the energy needed to play Miami Heat defense.

 

[pollardsvision]

Why are people seemingly convinced Lebron makes his decision tonight? Seems to me like this is just a "show me the plan" type of meeting.

I agree there probably won't be a decision tonight, but everything seems pretty straightforward now. LeBron doesn't need to see the plan. The plan is Napier, McRoberts, and Granger.

 

[Worm]

Why are people seemingly convinced Lebron makes his decision tonight? Seems to me like this is just a "show me the plan" type of meeting.

I agree there probably won't be a decision tonight, but everything seems pretty straightforward now. LeBron doesn't need to see the plan. The plan is Napier, McRoberts, and Granger.

Maybe the Heat would be better off not telling him about the plan.

 

[CurlyNight]

Uh, I asked this a page ago, but when are the signings done?

 

[Premier]

Why are people seemingly convinced Lebron makes his decision tonight? Seems to me like this is just a "show me the plan" type of meeting.

I agree there probably won't be a decision tonight, but everything seems pretty straightforward now. LeBron doesn't need to see the plan. The plan is Napier, McRoberts, and Granger.

Maybe the Heat would be better off not telling him about the plan.

"Lebron you can't leave. We just added you to our Framily."

 

[Premier]

Uh, I asked this a page ago, but when are the signings done?

How do you feel about the Cavs?A: nobody knows. Probably this week.