*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (6 Viewers)

[Kev4029]

Cavs also have the Grizzlies number 1 to trade.It's 1-5 and 15-30 protected for 2015.

1-5 for 2016.

1-10 for 2017.

If I were in charge, I would be happy to take (and something like Amundson - who is from Colorado - to keep Cleveland under the tax) that from Mozgov, so they would starting playing Nurkic, who looks to have a lot of potential.

 

[Kev4029]

WTF is up w/ the Nuggets?

Brian Shaw can't figure out his rotations, he's been playing 12 guys just about every night (13 last night), they can't defend anybody and they have been clanking open jumpers. They really need to blow this team up, keep Lawson, Faried, and the rookies, dump everybody else for anything they can get.

Dumping Ujiri and Karl is really proving to be a terrible move.

I whole-heartedly disagree.

I wasn't a Karl fan. I could never understand why he didn't play Faried and why he would play small ball lineups with so many 7 footers on the team.What's wrong with Ujiri? He seems to be doing fine in Canada.

He played small because the 7 footers all sucked. The Nuggets aren't playing small at all anymore and almost always have a 7 footer on the court and they have the second worst defense in the NBA this year.

On a side note, I was looking at Drtg to see just how bad the Nuggets are (really bad, on pace to be one of the worst 25 or so defenses since the 80s). The Lakers are allowing 117.4 points per 100 possessions, that is 2.7 points worse than any team ever. I knew they were bad, but I had no idea they are that bad.

 

[Premier]

So why did the Nuggets not use Fournier? Seems like he is really becoming a very good player now that he has solid minutes.

Karl notoriously didn't play rookies, so he didn't get much burn two seasons ago. Last season he played a fair amount, although he he should have played more given how the season ended up. I think Shaw misused him a lot, I think he's more of a ball dominant SG like Ginobili or Harden and they should have been running a lot of pick and roll with him, and they really didn't. When Karl did play him, especially in the GS playoff series, that's how they used him.

Here is what I said after the trade:

Orlando has agreed to send Arron Afflalo to Denver for Evan Fournier and 56th pick in 2014 Draft, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/482176769303515136Afflalo is a good player, surprised ORL couldn't do better.

I'm shocked thats all they could get for Afflalo. I thought the Bulls were putting out a better offer. At least per the rumors.

Fournier has been underutilized with the Nuggets. We may look back on this three or four years from now and think that Orlando raped the Nuggets.

The Nuggets seem very intent on chasing the 8 seed this season. Weeeeeee!

Looks like I may have been right.

Yikes.

Yea I didn't want to bring up the Manu thing but that's exactly who he looks like out there so far. Same style of game.

 

[Freelove]

So why did the Nuggets not use Fournier? Seems like he is really becoming a very good player now that he has solid minutes.

Karl notoriously didn't play rookies, so he didn't get much burn two seasons ago. Last season he played a fair amount, although he he should have played more given how the season ended up. I think Shaw misused him a lot, I think he's more of a ball dominant SG like Ginobili or Harden and they should have been running a lot of pick and roll with him, and they really didn't. When Karl did play him, especially in the GS playoff series, that's how they used him.

Here is what I said after the trade:

Orlando has agreed to send Arron Afflalo to Denver for Evan Fournier and 56th pick in 2014 Draft, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/482176769303515136Afflalo is a good player, surprised ORL couldn't do better.

I'm shocked thats all they could get for Afflalo. I thought the Bulls were putting out a better offer. At least per the rumors.

Fournier has been underutilized with the Nuggets. We may look back on this three or four years from now and think that Orlando raped the Nuggets.

The Nuggets seem very intent on chasing the 8 seed this season. Weeeeeee!

Looks like I may have been right.

Yikes.

Yea I didn't want to bring up the Manu thing but that's exactly who he looks like out there so far. Same style of game.

Wow. I haven't seen the Magic play yet, but I'm a little intrigued now. Seems like they have a ton of good young pieces from the user reviews. What's the hopeful scenario from the insider's perspective? One free agent and a year or two of development to get competitive with the East's major players?

ETA: And a coach?

 

[tom22406]

Temple almost stopped Jennings on this gem last night in the Wiz/Pistons game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNPVu833viw

 

[Kev4029]

Yikes.

Yea I didn't want to bring up the Manu thing but that's exactly who he looks like out there so far. Same style of game.

Very similar offensively, although I think Manu was the better athlete. The Nuggets had the opportunity to play Fournier extensively at PG last year after Miller was kicked off the team and Robinson blew up his knee, which would have really helped his development, but instead they traded for Brooks so they could limp to 36 wins. Of all the dumb #### the Nuggets did last year, that might top my list.

Fournier just turned 22, so he still has years to improve. He'll never be as good as Ginobili, but he could be Ginobili-lite.

 

[Premier]

So why did the Nuggets not use Fournier? Seems like he is really becoming a very good player now that he has solid minutes.

Karl notoriously didn't play rookies, so he didn't get much burn two seasons ago. Last season he played a fair amount, although he he should have played more given how the season ended up. I think Shaw misused him a lot, I think he's more of a ball dominant SG like Ginobili or Harden and they should have been running a lot of pick and roll with him, and they really didn't. When Karl did play him, especially in the GS playoff series, that's how they used him.

Here is what I said after the trade:

Orlando has agreed to send Arron Afflalo to Denver for Evan Fournier and 56th pick in 2014 Draft, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/482176769303515136Afflalo is a good player, surprised ORL couldn't do better.

I'm shocked thats all they could get for Afflalo. I thought the Bulls were putting out a better offer. At least per the rumors.

Fournier has been underutilized with the Nuggets. We may look back on this three or four years from now and think that Orlando raped the Nuggets.

The Nuggets seem very intent on chasing the 8 seed this season. Weeeeeee!

Looks like I may have been right.

Yikes.Yea I didn't want to bring up the Manu thing but that's exactly who he looks like out there so far. Same style of game.

Wow. I haven't seen the Magic play yet, but I'm a little intrigued now. Seems like they have a ton of good young pieces from the user reviews. What's the hopeful scenario from the insider's perspective? One free agent and a year or two of development to get competitive with the East's major players?

ETA: And a coach?

I'm not saying he will be the type of player Manu is, just a similar attacking but methodical type game. Good passer too.

I just want some cohesion. They have quite a few pieces but how will they mesh? Vaughn's rotations are a mess. Harkless has been very good when he played this year but he can barely get off the bench. It's so weird.

Down the road the lineup of:

Payton/Oladipo/Vucevic/A Gordon/SF who can shoot

With Fournier, Frye and Harris off the bench seems like it could be a winner.

 

[Kev4029]

Temple almost stopped Jennings on this gem last night in the Wiz/Pistons game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNPVu833viw

Jennings has played really well this year, despite the rest of the Pistons being awful.

 

[ShaHBucks]

WTF is up w/ the Nuggets?

Brian Shaw can't figure out his rotations, he's been playing 12 guys just about every night (13 last night), they can't defend anybody and they have been clanking open jumpers. They really need to blow this team up, keep Lawson, Faried, and the rookies, dump everybody else for anything they can get.

Dumping Ujiri and Karl is really proving to be a terrible move.

I whole-heartedly disagree.

I wasn't a Karl fan. I could never understand why he didn't play Faried and why he would play small ball lineups with so many 7 footers on the team.What's wrong with Ujiri? He seems to be doing fine in Canada.

He played small because the 7 footers all sucked. The Nuggets aren't playing small at all anymore and almost always have a 7 footer on the court and they have the second worst defense in the NBA this year.

On a side note, I was looking at Drtg to see just how bad the Nuggets are (really bad, on pace to be one of the worst 25 or so defenses since the 80s). The Lakers are allowing 117.4 points per 100 possessions, that is 2.7 points worse than any team ever. I knew they were bad, but I had no idea they are that bad.

Unless you have Lebron (who really isn't "small") or a team with Jordan, Pippen and Rodman you likely don't have the talent to forgo playing bigs. He had teams with Mozgov, McGee, Koufos, and Faried while coaching in Denver. They all provided things like efficient scoring, boards and blks ect.. Turn on the games and you'd see lineup like Gallo and Chandler together playing big in playoff games. Karl was one of those coaches who preferred his system over talent/winning. They often won in spite of Karl since the GM put together a heck of a team.

I don't think I've watched a Denver game this season to comment. Just boxscore scouting, no one is playing well to start except for Lawson.

 

[thecatch]

at won in spite of Karl. Hope you are enjoying the Brian Shaw era. Amazing how a fan base can turn on even a good coach after a few years (I still am angry at the way Adelman got run out of Sacramento).

 

[Kev4029]

WTF is up w/ the Nuggets?

Brian Shaw can't figure out his rotations, he's been playing 12 guys just about every night (13 last night), they can't defend anybody and they have been clanking open jumpers. They really need to blow this team up, keep Lawson, Faried, and the rookies, dump everybody else for anything they can get.

Dumping Ujiri and Karl is really proving to be a terrible move.

I whole-heartedly disagree.

I wasn't a Karl fan. I could never understand why he didn't play Faried and why he would play small ball lineups with so many 7 footers on the team.What's wrong with Ujiri? He seems to be doing fine in Canada.

He played small because the 7 footers all sucked. The Nuggets aren't playing small at all anymore and almost always have a 7 footer on the court and they have the second worst defense in the NBA this year.

On a side note, I was looking at Drtg to see just how bad the Nuggets are (really bad, on pace to be one of the worst 25 or so defenses since the 80s). The Lakers are allowing 117.4 points per 100 possessions, that is 2.7 points worse than any team ever. I knew they were bad, but I had no idea they are that bad.

Unless you have Lebron (who really isn't "small") or a team with Jordan, Pippen and Rodman you likely don't have the talent to forgo playing bigs. He had teams with Mozgov, McGee, Koufos, and Faried while coaching in Denver. They all provided things like efficient scoring, boards and blks ect.. Turn on the games and you'd see lineup like Gallo and Chandler together playing big in playoff games. Karl was one of those coaches who preferred his system over talent/winning. They often won in spite of Karl since the GM put together a heck of a team.

I don't think I've watched a Denver game this season to comment. Just boxscore scouting, no one is playing well to start except for Lawson.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this. He has always tailored his system around the talent. The way he played his teams in Seattle and Milwaukee were far different than the Nuggets.

He didn't play small with the bigs nearly as much as perception either, Faried played center 3% and 5% in his two Karl years. Karl played more small ball on perimeter with 2 PG lineups (which admittedly pissed me off a lot) than he did with a small center.

The majority of the big minute players from Karl's last couple years are still here (Lawson, Afflalo, Gallinari, Faried, Chandler, Mozgov, McGee) but they are 1-6 vs Karl's last two years when they won 65% of their games. I loved Ujiri, but Karl was a much big part of their success than he was.

 

[Kev4029]

at won in spite of Karl. Hope you are enjoying the Brian Shaw era. Amazing how a fan base can turn on even a good coach after a few years (I still am angry at the way Adelman got run out of Sacramento).

I really don't think the majority of the fan base wanted Karl out, and definitely not the fans that watched a lot of basketball. Karl #### the bed in the Warriors playoff series right before he was fired, and that's what a lot of the fans remembered. Even that loss was more circumstance than his fault though. Gallinari tore his knee a week before the playoffs and he was the team's second best player, Lawson was recovering from his ankle that is still a problem today, Faried missed the first game and wasn't right when he returned, and Koufus forgot how to play basketball. Karl tried to combat the teams issues by going uber small with Faried at center and Andre Miller at shooting guard half the games and it totally backfired, but I don't know what he could have done with the injuries and with Thompson shooting lights out that would have saved the series.

 

[tommyGunZ]

So why did the Nuggets not use Fournier? Seems like he is really becoming a very good player now that he has solid minutes.

Karl notoriously didn't play rookies, so he didn't get much burn two seasons ago. Last season he played a fair amount, although he he should have played more given how the season ended up. I think Shaw misused him a lot, I think he's more of a ball dominant SG like Ginobili or Harden and they should have been running a lot of pick and roll with him, and they really didn't. When Karl did play him, especially in the GS playoff series, that's how they used him.

Here is what I said after the trade:

Orlando has agreed to send Arron Afflalo to Denver for Evan Fournier and 56th pick in 2014 Draft, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/482176769303515136Afflalo is a good player, surprised ORL couldn't do better.

I'm shocked thats all they could get for Afflalo. I thought the Bulls were putting out a better offer. At least per the rumors.

Fournier has been underutilized with the Nuggets. We may look back on this three or four years from now and think that Orlando raped the Nuggets.

The Nuggets seem very intent on chasing the 8 seed this season. Weeeeeee!

Looks like I may have been right.

Yikes.Yea I didn't want to bring up the Manu thing but that's exactly who he looks like out there so far. Same style of game.

Wow. I haven't seen the Magic play yet, but I'm a little intrigued now. Seems like they have a ton of good young pieces from the user reviews. What's the hopeful scenario from the insider's perspective? One free agent and a year or two of development to get competitive with the East's major players?

ETA: And a coach?

I'm not saying he will be the type of player Manu is, just a similar attacking but methodical type game. Good passer too.

I just want some cohesion. They have quite a few pieces but how will they mesh? Vaughn's rotations are a mess. Harkless has been very good when he played this year but he can barely get off the bench. It's so weird.

Down the road the lineup of:

Payton/Oladipo/Vucevic/A Gordon/SF who can shoot

With Fournier, Frye and Harris off the bench seems like it could be a winner.

There are a lot of nice pieces there, but I don't know how you can punt shooting as an organizational philosophy and contend.

 

[Bobcat10]

Kev, school me up on Mozgov. This guy has been coming up for months now as a target for the Cavs.

Also does he slot right in next to Love in place of Andy or is he 20 minute guy (and 4th quarter defense) off the bench with TT? He's only getting 20 minutes of run with the Nuggets, which is alarming to me. Not a shot blocker...so good post defense?

As far as the cap goes, I'm sure they'd want to stay under if possible, but going over to acquire a piece to improve the team is not a big deal overall. In Mozgov's case, nothing is on the books after this season unless the team picks up the option.

 

[ShaHBucks]

at won in spite of Karl. Hope you are enjoying the Brian Shaw era. Amazing how a fan base can turn on even a good coach after a few years (I still am angry at the way Adelman got run out of Sacramento).

I really don't think the majority of the fan base wanted Karl out, and definitely not the fans that watched a lot of basketball. Karl #### the bed in the Warriors playoff series right before he was fired, and that's what a lot of the fans remembered. Even that loss was more circumstance than his fault though. Gallinari tore his knee a week before the playoffs and he was the team's second best player, Lawson was recovering from his ankle that is still a problem today, Faried missed the first game and wasn't right when he returned, and Koufus forgot how to play basketball. Karl tried to combat the teams issues by going uber small with Faried at center and Andre Miller at shooting guard half the games and it totally backfired, but I don't know what he could have done with the injuries and with Thompson shooting lights out that would have saved the series.

He tried to out small ball GS. The problem was that GS small players were actually good.

 

[Premier]

So why did the Nuggets not use Fournier? Seems like he is really becoming a very good player now that he has solid minutes.

Karl notoriously didn't play rookies, so he didn't get much burn two seasons ago. Last season he played a fair amount, although he he should have played more given how the season ended up. I think Shaw misused him a lot, I think he's more of a ball dominant SG like Ginobili or Harden and they should have been running a lot of pick and roll with him, and they really didn't. When Karl did play him, especially in the GS playoff series, that's how they used him.

Here is what I said after the trade:

Orlando has agreed to send Arron Afflalo to Denver for Evan Fournier and 56th pick in 2014 Draft, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/482176769303515136Afflalo is a good player, surprised ORL couldn't do better.

I'm shocked thats all they could get for Afflalo. I thought the Bulls were putting out a better offer. At least per the rumors.

Fournier has been underutilized with the Nuggets. We may look back on this three or four years from now and think that Orlando raped the Nuggets.

The Nuggets seem very intent on chasing the 8 seed this season. Weeeeeee!

Looks like I may have been right.

Yikes.Yea I didn't want to bring up the Manu thing but that's exactly who he looks like out there so far. Same style of game.

Wow. I haven't seen the Magic play yet, but I'm a little intrigued now. Seems like they have a ton of good young pieces from the user reviews. What's the hopeful scenario from the insider's perspective? One free agent and a year or two of development to get competitive with the East's major players?

ETA: And a coach?

I'm not saying he will be the type of player Manu is, just a similar attacking but methodical type game. Good passer too.

I just want some cohesion. They have quite a few pieces but how will they mesh? Vaughn's rotations are a mess. Harkless has been very good when he played this year but he can barely get off the bench. It's so weird.

Down the road the lineup of:

Payton/Oladipo/Vucevic/A Gordon/SF who can shoot

With Fournier, Frye and Harris off the bench seems like it could be a winner.

There are a lot of nice pieces there, but I don't know how you can punt shooting as an organizational philosophy and contend.

Fournier can shoot. Frye can shoot. They just didn't draft any shooters.

 

[Kev4029]

Kev, school me up on Mozgov. This guy has been coming up for months now as a target for the Cavs.

Also does he slot right in next to Love in place of Andy or is he 20 minute guy (and 4th quarter defense) off the bench with TT? He's only getting 20 minutes of run with the Nuggets, which is alarming to me. Not a shot blocker...so good post defense?

As far as the cap goes, I'm sure they'd want to stay under if possible, but going over to acquire a piece to improve the team is not a big deal overall. In Mozgov's case, nothing is on the books after this season unless the team picks up the option.

Mozgov is huge, moves around like a player much smaller and has pretty good hands for a 7 footer. He can step out to 10-12 feet and hit that jumper (not well, but well enough for a center), and can get good position on the block because he's so big, but really doesn't do much with it other than draw fouls at a pretty good rate (he hits his free throws exceptionally well for a 7 footer). He doesn't pass well, but he's not a black hole either. Not necessarily a plus on the offensive end, but definitely not a negative.

Defensively he can body up with anybody and he's a decent pick and roll defender because he moves his feet well, but he doesn't jump quick and he doesn't have great timing so he isn't much of a shot blocker. He rebounds like a center should, but he isn't an exceptional rebounder.

Basically, Mozgov does everything well enough, but nothing exceptionally well. He doesn't take anything off the table, but he doesn't really add anything. That's why it has seemed like the Nuggets have always been trying to replace him. He's a guy that the Cavs would use to platoon with Varejao to play 20 mpg as the backup to Varejao until he inevitably gets hurt, and they could play Mozgov 25-28 mpg without missing a whole lot. The nice thing about Mozgov is he does everything for cheap, there aren't many (any?) veteran centers that can match his play with a cheaper contract.

 

[Kev4029]

at won in spite of Karl. Hope you are enjoying the Brian Shaw era. Amazing how a fan base can turn on even a good coach after a few years (I still am angry at the way Adelman got run out of Sacramento).

I really don't think the majority of the fan base wanted Karl out, and definitely not the fans that watched a lot of basketball. Karl #### the bed in the Warriors playoff series right before he was fired, and that's what a lot of the fans remembered. Even that loss was more circumstance than his fault though. Gallinari tore his knee a week before the playoffs and he was the team's second best player, Lawson was recovering from his ankle that is still a problem today, Faried missed the first game and wasn't right when he returned, and Koufus forgot how to play basketball. Karl tried to combat the teams issues by going uber small with Faried at center and Andre Miller at shooting guard half the games and it totally backfired, but I don't know what he could have done with the injuries and with Thompson shooting lights out that would have saved the series.

He tried to out small ball GS. The problem was that GS small players were actually good.

He was definitely out coached in that series, but I don't think Popovich could have coached the Nuggets to a win. Golden State was shooting at an unsustainable level (Thompson and Jack made handfuls of contested jumpers and Barnes and Green decided that was a good time to become knock down three point shooters), Koufus and McGee were awful when the played, and Lawson was very hobbled by his injury. The team that played Golden State was nothing like the team that won 57 games that season.

That series made Jack his 4 year $25M contract, and because of that series, some Golden State fans were upset with the Iguodala trade in the offseason because they though Harrison Barnes was a star in the making, and those things had little to do with how the Nuggets defended.

 

[Sammy3469]

Kev, school me up on Mozgov. This guy has been coming up for months now as a target for the Cavs.

Also does he slot right in next to Love in place of Andy or is he 20 minute guy (and 4th quarter defense) off the bench with TT? He's only getting 20 minutes of run with the Nuggets, which is alarming to me. Not a shot blocker...so good post defense?

As far as the cap goes, I'm sure they'd want to stay under if possible, but going over to acquire a piece to improve the team is not a big deal overall. In Mozgov's case, nothing is on the books after this season unless the team picks up the option.

Tre will be most disappointed with this post

 

[Sammy3469]

Kev, school me up on Mozgov. This guy has been coming up for months now as a target for the Cavs.

Also does he slot right in next to Love in place of Andy or is he 20 minute guy (and 4th quarter defense) off the bench with TT? He's only getting 20 minutes of run with the Nuggets, which is alarming to me. Not a shot blocker...so good post defense?

As far as the cap goes, I'm sure they'd want to stay under if possible, but going over to acquire a piece to improve the team is not a big deal overall. In Mozgov's case, nothing is on the books after this season unless the team picks up the option.

Mozgov is huge, moves around like a player much smaller and has pretty good hands for a 7 footer. He can step out to 10-12 feet and hit that jumper (not well, but well enough for a center), and can get good position on the block because he's so big, but really doesn't do much with it other than draw fouls at a pretty good rate (he hits his free throws exceptionally well for a 7 footer). He doesn't pass well, but he's not a black hole either. Not necessarily a plus on the offensive end, but definitely not a negative.

Defensively he can body up with anybody and he's a decent pick and roll defender because he moves his feet well, but he doesn't jump quick and he doesn't have great timing so he isn't much of a shot blocker. He rebounds like a center should, but he isn't an exceptional rebounder.

Basically, Mozgov does everything well enough, but nothing exceptionally well. He doesn't take anything off the table, but he doesn't really add anything. That's why it has seemed like the Nuggets have always been trying to replace him. He's a guy that the Cavs would use to platoon with Varejao to play 20 mpg as the backup to Varejao until he inevitably gets hurt, and they could play Mozgov 25-28 mpg without missing a whole lot. The nice thing about Mozgov is he does everything for cheap, there aren't many (any?) veteran centers that can match his play with a cheaper contract.

Plus he gets dunked on a ton!

 

[Kev4029]

Kev, school me up on Mozgov. This guy has been coming up for months now as a target for the Cavs.

Also does he slot right in next to Love in place of Andy or is he 20 minute guy (and 4th quarter defense) off the bench with TT? He's only getting 20 minutes of run with the Nuggets, which is alarming to me. Not a shot blocker...so good post defense?

As far as the cap goes, I'm sure they'd want to stay under if possible, but going over to acquire a piece to improve the team is not a big deal overall. In Mozgov's case, nothing is on the books after this season unless the team picks up the option.

Mozgov is huge, moves around like a player much smaller and has pretty good hands for a 7 footer. He can step out to 10-12 feet and hit that jumper (not well, but well enough for a center), and can get good position on the block because he's so big, but really doesn't do much with it other than draw fouls at a pretty good rate (he hits his free throws exceptionally well for a 7 footer). He doesn't pass well, but he's not a black hole either. Not necessarily a plus on the offensive end, but definitely not a negative.

Defensively he can body up with anybody and he's a decent pick and roll defender because he moves his feet well, but he doesn't jump quick and he doesn't have great timing so he isn't much of a shot blocker. He rebounds like a center should, but he isn't an exceptional rebounder.

Basically, Mozgov does everything well enough, but nothing exceptionally well. He doesn't take anything off the table, but he doesn't really add anything. That's why it has seemed like the Nuggets have always been trying to replace him. He's a guy that the Cavs would use to platoon with Varejao to play 20 mpg as the backup to Varejao until he inevitably gets hurt, and they could play Mozgov 25-28 mpg without missing a whole lot. The nice thing about Mozgov is he does everything for cheap, there aren't many (any?) veteran centers that can match his play with a cheaper contract.

Plus he gets dunked on a ton!

Yep.

 

[General Malaise]

Blazers scored 82 points against Denver.

In the first half.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Blazers scored 82 points against Denver.

In the first half.

When the shots are falling, that Blazer team is extremely tough to beat.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Kev, school me up on Mozgov. This guy has been coming up for months now as a target for the Cavs.

Also does he slot right in next to Love in place of Andy or is he 20 minute guy (and 4th quarter defense) off the bench with TT? He's only getting 20 minutes of run with the Nuggets, which is alarming to me. Not a shot blocker...so good post defense?

As far as the cap goes, I'm sure they'd want to stay under if possible, but going over to acquire a piece to improve the team is not a big deal overall. In Mozgov's case, nothing is on the books after this season unless the team picks up the option.

Tre will be most disappointed with this post

MOZ! :(

 

[Bobcat10]

Kev, school me up on Mozgov. This guy has been coming up for months now as a target for the Cavs.

Also does he slot right in next to Love in place of Andy or is he 20 minute guy (and 4th quarter defense) off the bench with TT? He's only getting 20 minutes of run with the Nuggets, which is alarming to me. Not a shot blocker...so good post defense?

As far as the cap goes, I'm sure they'd want to stay under if possible, but going over to acquire a piece to improve the team is not a big deal overall. In Mozgov's case, nothing is on the books after this season unless the team picks up the option.

Tre will be most disappointed with this post

MOZ! :(

Floor is open for Knick fan. Russian size it for me.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Enjoy the next 2 seasons...it looks like the NBPA is going to be very aggressive in the next round of collective bargaining.

To be fair, any sort of competent negotiating from the PA will come off as super aggressive when compared to the "negotiating" that went on under Billy Hunter.

Well she's not talking about negotiating, but blowing the whole thing up and starting from scratch. When you say that the owners are expendable, that there should be no max contract, that the entire salary structure is un-American you are setting up for a big fight.

Was just reading up on this during lunch. Holy moly, she is bad###.

"Why don't we have the owners play half the games?" Roberts said, speaking in her Harlem office to ESPN The Magazine. "There would be no money if not for the players."

"Let's call it what it is. There. Would. Be. No. Money," she added, pausing for emphasis. "Thirty more owners can come in, and nothing will change. These guys go? The game will change. So let's stop pretending."

That said, she did an interview with Zach Lowe on his podcast and I came away with the impression that the salary cap/max salary stuff is posturing for negotiations. That's exactly what she should be doing. Those are concessions on the part of the players and should be treated as such.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Enjoy the next 2 seasons...it looks like the NBPA is going to be very aggressive in the next round of collective bargaining.

To be fair, any sort of competent negotiating from the PA will come off as super aggressive when compared to the "negotiating" that went on under Billy Hunter.

Well she's not talking about negotiating, but blowing the whole thing up and starting from scratch. When you say that the owners are expendable, that there should be no max contract, that the entire salary structure is un-American you are setting up for a big fight.

Was just reading up on this during lunch. Holy moly, she is bad###.

"Why don't we have the owners play half the games?" Roberts said, speaking in her Harlem office to ESPN The Magazine. "There would be no money if not for the players."

"Let's call it what it is. There. Would. Be. No. Money," she added, pausing for emphasis. "Thirty more owners can come in, and nothing will change. These guys go? The game will change. So let's stop pretending."

That said, she did an interview with Zach Lowe on his podcast and I came away with the impression that the salary cap/max salary stuff is posturing for negotiations. That's exactly what she should be doing. Those are concessions on the part of the players and should be treated as such.

Roberts is exactly right.

 

[Sammy3469]

Enjoy the next 2 seasons...it looks like the NBPA is going to be very aggressive in the next round of collective bargaining.

To be fair, any sort of competent negotiating from the PA will come off as super aggressive when compared to the "negotiating" that went on under Billy Hunter.

Well she's not talking about negotiating, but blowing the whole thing up and starting from scratch. When you say that the owners are expendable, that there should be no max contract, that the entire salary structure is un-American you are setting up for a big fight.

Was just reading up on this during lunch. Holy moly, she is bad###.

"Why don't we have the owners play half the games?" Roberts said, speaking in her Harlem office to ESPN The Magazine. "There would be no money if not for the players."

"Let's call it what it is. There. Would. Be. No. Money," she added, pausing for emphasis. "Thirty more owners can come in, and nothing will change. These guys go? The game will change. So let's stop pretending."

That said, she did an interview with Zach Lowe on his podcast and I came away with the impression that the salary cap/max salary stuff is posturing for negotiations. That's exactly what she should be doing. Those are concessions on the part of the players and should be treated as such.

I think more than anything it shows how little she trusts whatever numbers the owners show her....which is a bad place to be starting from. The crux is that the Knicks and Lakers of the world should be able to spend whatever they want both overall and for anyone player. Both ideas blow up the current structure. That's a drop down to the current structure of 50-51% of revenue with a max contract of 30% of a cap.

And the difference this time is that guys like LeBron, Love, Paul, Bosh, Melo have already bought into her line of thinking and I wouldn't be shocked if they start (or have already started) getting things lined up behind the scenes monetarily to press their point in 2 years. The whole "owners are expendable" is code for we'll be happy to pursue different monetary paths in 2 years time.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'm not saying he will be the type of player Manu is, just a similar attacking but methodical type game. Good passer too.

I just want some cohesion. They have quite a few pieces but how will they mesh? Vaughn's rotations are a mess. Harkless has been very good when he played this year but he can barely get off the bench. It's so weird.

Down the road the lineup of:

Payton/Oladipo/Vucevic/A Gordon/SF who can shoot

With Fournier, Frye and Harris off the bench seems like it could be a winner.

There are a lot of nice pieces there, but I don't know how you can punt shooting as an organizational philosophy and contend.

Fournier can shoot. Frye can shoot. They just didn't draft any shooters.

Correct - but as you yourself suggested in your post above, they are bench/rotation guys, not starters. I like Payton and Oladipo individually, but together? How will that lineup ever score against a defense that packs the middle? You can't have your starting lineup getting killed.

 

[Kev4029]

Enjoy the next 2 seasons...it looks like the NBPA is going to be very aggressive in the next round of collective bargaining.

To be fair, any sort of competent negotiating from the PA will come off as super aggressive when compared to the "negotiating" that went on under Billy Hunter.

Well she's not talking about negotiating, but blowing the whole thing up and starting from scratch. When you say that the owners are expendable, that there should be no max contract, that the entire salary structure is un-American you are setting up for a big fight.

Was just reading up on this during lunch. Holy moly, she is bad###.

"Why don't we have the owners play half the games?" Roberts said, speaking in her Harlem office to ESPN The Magazine. "There would be no money if not for the players."

"Let's call it what it is. There. Would. Be. No. Money," she added, pausing for emphasis. "Thirty more owners can come in, and nothing will change. These guys go? The game will change. So let's stop pretending."

That said, she did an interview with Zach Lowe on his podcast and I came away with the impression that the salary cap/max salary stuff is posturing for negotiations. That's exactly what she should be doing. Those are concessions on the part of the players and should be treated as such.

I don't understand why the NBAPA would push for no max salaries. It would help the top 5% of players, at most, and negatively effect the remaining 95%. The max salary saves owners from themselves and gets most of the players more money to spread around.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Easily solved by each team having a roster slot that doesn't count against the cap and has no max but, to save the owners from themselves, the contract is non-guaranteed.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Enjoy the next 2 seasons...it looks like the NBPA is going to be very aggressive in the next round of collective bargaining.

To be fair, any sort of competent negotiating from the PA will come off as super aggressive when compared to the "negotiating" that went on under Billy Hunter.

Well she's not talking about negotiating, but blowing the whole thing up and starting from scratch. When you say that the owners are expendable, that there should be no max contract, that the entire salary structure is un-American you are setting up for a big fight.

Was just reading up on this during lunch. Holy moly, she is bad###.

"Why don't we have the owners play half the games?" Roberts said, speaking in her Harlem office to ESPN The Magazine. "There would be no money if not for the players."

"Let's call it what it is. There. Would. Be. No. Money," she added, pausing for emphasis. "Thirty more owners can come in, and nothing will change. These guys go? The game will change. So let's stop pretending."

That said, she did an interview with Zach Lowe on his podcast and I came away with the impression that the salary cap/max salary stuff is posturing for negotiations. That's exactly what she should be doing. Those are concessions on the part of the players and should be treated as such.

I don't understand why the NBAPA would push for no max salaries. It would help the top 5% of players, at most, and negatively effect the remaining 95%. The max salary saves owners from themselves and gets most of the players more money to spread around.

Removing max salaries would be a subsequent step after removing the salary cap, I assume. Neither will happen, but at least this rep is looking at the issues the right way. The current deal is a joke. The NBAPA should be by far the most powerful players' association because it's the sport that is most dependent upon the athletes themselves.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Better career: Duncan or Kobe?

The more interesting question is, "Was there ever a time when Kobe's career was better than Duncan's?"

 

[Kev4029]

Better career: Duncan or Kobe?

The more interesting question is, "Was there ever a time when Kobe's career was better than Duncan's?"

After the 96/97 season?

 

[Sammy3469]

Better career: Duncan or Kobe?

The more interesting question is, "Was there ever a time when Kobe's career was better than Duncan's?"

If it's anytime it's after the 2009-10 Championship, but even then it's short-lived since Duncan's been the decidedly better player since then.

 

[Premier]

I'm not saying he will be the type of player Manu is, just a similar attacking but methodical type game. Good passer too.I just want some cohesion. They have quite a few pieces but how will they mesh? Vaughn's rotations are a mess. Harkless has been very good when he played this year but he can barely get off the bench. It's so weird.

Down the road the lineup of:

Payton/Oladipo/Vucevic/A Gordon/SF who can shoot

With Fournier, Frye and Harris off the bench seems like it could be a winner.

There are a lot of nice pieces there, but I don't know how you can punt shooting as an organizational philosophy and contend.

Fournier can shoot. Frye can shoot. They just didn't draft any shooters.

Correct - but as you yourself suggested in your post above, they are bench/rotation guys, not starters. I like Payton and Oladipo individually, but together? How will that lineup ever score against a defense that packs the middle? You can't have your starting lineup getting killed.

I think they are hoping they develop a J and I imagine the 3 they draft will be a shooter.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Better career: Duncan or Kobe?

The more interesting question is, "Was there ever a time when Kobe's career was better than Duncan's?"

If it's anytime it's after the 2009-10 Championship, but even then it's short-lived since Duncan's been the decidedly better player since then.

Two top 10 all time players - give me the house on the Newport Beach cliffs and $2-300M in extra earnings over the Texas suburbs. But I'm sure others mileage will vary.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Better career: Duncan or Kobe?

The more interesting question is, "Was there ever a time when Kobe's career was better than Duncan's?"

If it's anytime it's after the 2009-10 Championship, but even then it's short-lived since Duncan's been the decidedly better player since then.

Two top 10 all time players - give me the house on the Newport Beach cliffs and $2-300M in extra earnings over the Texas suburbs. But I'm sure others mileage will vary.

I don't think bringing non-basketball factors into any sort of comparison of the career of Kobe vs another player is a wise move for you here.

 

[Spartans Rule]

There are a lot of nice pieces there, but I don't know how you can punt shooting as an organizational philosophy and contend.

Hey, it worked out great for the Pistons last season.

 

[Dondante]

Better career: Duncan or Kobe?

The more interesting question is, "Was there ever a time when Kobe's career was better than Duncan's?"

If it's anytime it's after the 2009-10 Championship, but even then it's short-lived since Duncan's been the decidedly better player since then.

Two top 10 all time players - give me the house on the Newport Beach cliffs and $2-300M in extra earnings over the Texas suburbs. But I'm sure others mileage will vary.

I don't think bringing non-basketball factors into any sort of comparison of the career of Kobe vs another player is a wise move for you here.

You're right about that. And even the most basic comparison would really only come down to rings, IMO, as the difference in position and situation makes the question a head-scratcher at best. I'm not a big fan of the dissimilar positional comparison game. It's obviously not like comparing a tackle and a wideout in football, but rather more like comparing a shortstop and a catcher in baseball. As much as it pains me to say it, Kobe probably had the better career (it's probably not even close) but it's really not Duncan's fault. It's a miracle (of science?) that Duncan has been able to play as long as he has and that longevity alone probably keeps him in the discussion. Both easily first ballot HOFers, obviously.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

The ring count was about the only thing the pro-Kobe faction ever had going for them in the Kobe vs. Duncan career discussion. It seem pretty unlikely at this point Kobe can ever pull back in front unless he is willing to move to another team to end his career. It's not out of the question that Duncan could also sneak in another one this year, but in all likelihood I think that ends up a draw. Pretty much every other way of looking at it Duncan is ahead.

 

[Ghost Rider]

As much as it pains me to say it, Kobe probably had the better career (it's probably not even close) but it's really not Duncan's fault.

How is it not close?

-Both have 5 rings.

-Duncan has more regular season MVPs.

-Duncan has more Finals MVPs.

It's obviously not easy to compare them directly, because one is a shooting guard, while the other is a power forward - Duncan is obviously a much better rebounder, but Bryant is a more prolific scorer, although Duncan is a far more efficient scorer (see: their field goal percentages) - but all in all, neither has had a significantly better career than the other, although I think the argument for Duncan is stronger.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

As much as it pains me to say it, Kobe probably had the better career (it's probably not even close) but it's really not Duncan's fault.

How is it not close?

-Both have 5 rings.

-Duncan has more regular season MVPs.

-Duncan has more Finals MVPs.

It's obviously not easy to compare them directly, because one is a shooting guard, while the other is a power forward - Duncan is obviously a much better rebounder, but Bryant is a more prolific scorer, although Duncan is a far more efficient scorer (see: their field goal percentages) - but all in all, neither has had a significantly better career than the other, although I think the argument for Duncan is stronger.

We're busy kicking dirt on Kobe's grave...get with the program, guy.

 

[Gawain]

What's this talk of Kobe being a top-10 player?

He's barely a top-10 Laker? Magic, Abdul-Jabar, West, Chamberlain, O'Neal, Mikan and Baylor are clearly better. I'd put him at 8th, with Worthy a worthy ninth.

 

[Abraham]

 

[No. 16]

Easily solved by each team having a roster slot that doesn't count against the cap and has no max but, to save the owners from themselves, the contract is non-guaranteed.

Did you make this up? I don't see any negatives to this.

 

[Premier]

@ScottCacciola: In an op-ed for @nytimes, NBA Commissioner Adam Silver argues for the legalization of sports betting: http://t.co/8yvlLt9qkt

What a ####ing hero this guy is. Can he commish everything?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Easily solved by each team having a roster slot that doesn't count against the cap and has no max but, to save the owners from themselves, the contract is non-guaranteed.

Did you make this up? I don't see any negatives to this.

Yep. Seems like a win-win to me. Stars get their actual value and albatrosses get cut.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

First Raptors national TV game in forever. Let's hope we don't see Christo posting in here tonight

 

[Christo]

Da Bulls!