NE Running It Up = YES (1 Viewer)

[Statorama]

Anyone who has paid attention over the last 7 years knows that I am as big a Pats fan as you will ever find. NE has falsely been accused of running up the score in the past and up until today, much like shooting fish in a barrell I can easily justify why NE did exactly what I want my HC and my team to do (bring it on if u think otherwise).

So, after today, do you not wonder about previous allegations ?

No, I don't wonder because I have watched every game and I understood the rational behind the play calling. However, if you have a specifc instance in mind I am more than willing to discuss.

No, of course, I, like most, have no "specific" instances to discuss just as there is no "specific" answers to what was found or not ... hey , the PATS are likely the best there ever was, the problem you have is dealing with the baggage. Good luck.

I am not going to let u off that easy. If you want to put an asterisk next to all of NEs SB wins then that is a seperate arguement. FWIW, I can counter and say the the NFL commisoner is on record as saying NEs video gate had no affect on any of their playoff or SB games (see Inside NFL Bob Costas conversation); but regardless that has ZERO to do with what NE has done this year. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?If u put all that aside, do u have any evidence (other than sum1 who got their ### pounded and whined about it) that any of NEs wins THIS YEAR can be attributed to cheating?

Please present your evidence.

I agree. Everyone know BB turned in all the tapes he's piled up over the past 7 years. And the ones he didn't turn in self-destructed one week after their original taping. Therefore, it is obvious that since they stopped stealing the other teams' playcalling in week 1, there is no way they have any advantage whatsoever.Patriot-hatahs go home you losahs!

U r a hater and I should not waste my time; but explain how even if BB had def signal tapes of every team in the NFL, just exactly does NE take advantage of that when all an opposing team has to do is A. change their signals or B. have 1 or 2 decoys sending in the signals?Hate if u want to hate, but your accusations are laughable

could that ell methat is

Belichick had tape of Gibbs offensive plays, it's labeled under 1982.

 

[Phlash]

I'm sick of rooting for the best team in football, why can't my team suck more =[

 

[az_prof]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.

As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy.

Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

 

[Thumper]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy. Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

Who cares?The 2007 Patriots may be the most dominant team in the history of sports.

 

[mad sweeney]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy. Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

Who cares?The 2007 Patriots may be the most dominant team in the history of sports.

Gretzky's Oilers may take umbrage with that statement.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy. Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

Who cares?The 2007 Patriots may be the most dominant team in the history of sports.

And Barry Bonds is the greatest homerun hitter of all time.

 

[encaitar]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy. Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

Who cares?The 2007 Patriots may be the most dominant team in the history of sports.

*cough* '96 Bulls *cough*

 

[mbuehner]

TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION

If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.

Two Clubs

Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).

Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.

Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.

Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.

Strength of victory.

Strength of schedule.

Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.

Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.

Best net points in common games.

Best net points in all games.

Best net touchdowns in all games.

End of argument.

Seriously? They're doing to take care of the 9-11th tiebreaker in the worst division in football? This post is just dumb enough to make the seventeenth thread on the topic today interesting.

The point is not only is it within the rules to run up the score, it is encouraged. If a computer was running the team it would try to maximize the score 100% of the time. The idea that you should back off to be a 'nice guy' is purely emotional. I believe there are zero tie-breakers for being well liked by opposing coaches.For that matter, how many snaps does an NFL offense take against an NFL defense? If the Pats are playing half of every game, those missed snaps are going to add up. If they were to go into Indy not clicking on every possible cylinder because theyd only take half the snaps the Colts had together, who's the jerk then? Personally i'll give the benefit of the doubt to the coach with 3 SB rings who's team looks like one of the best in history. Just maybe he knows a little more about coaching than all the Pat haters.

 

[duece2626]

Personally i'll give the benefit of the doubt to the coach with 3 SB rings who's team looks like one of the best in history. Just maybe he knows a little more about coaching than all the Pat haters.

Of course he does, he has all the tapes to prove it!! Oh wait, they suddenly disappeared somehow.

 

[az_prof]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy. Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

Who cares?The 2007 Patriots may be the most dominant team in the history of sports.

And Barry Bonds is the greatest homerun hitter of all time.

Who cares? He is a cheater... O yeah...you could say the same thing of the 07 Pats.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy. Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

Again, u can make an arguement that video gate gave NE in advantage in the PAST, but it is laughable to make to try and make the arguement that it has ANY effect on the games they are playing now. I ask again, how does NE continue to gain an advantage when all opposing coaches need to do is change their signals or use decoys. It is ridiculous to even suggest that NE somehow has an ongoing advantage when even the most rudimentary precaution renders the accumulated information worthless. In fact, it is absurd to think NE would even consider relying on such information when they know the opposition can so easily give them false information.

 

[mbuehner]

One little fact for the conspiracy minded- Pats havent played the team they just demolished today since 2003. Would they have score 100 points instead of 52 if they had the Skins signals?

 

[badmojo1006]

I think the reason that Belichick keeps going for it on 4th down is he knows I have Gostkowski as my kicker

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy. Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

Who cares?The 2007 Patriots may be the most dominant team in the history of sports.

And Barry Bonds is the greatest homerun hitter of all time.

Who cares? He is a cheater... O yeah...you could say the same thing of the 07 Pats.

Yeah, and you could also say that Al Gore invented the internet, but you still wouldn't be quite right unless you qualified the earlier statement by saying it only applied to game 1 againt the Jets and it had no effect on the outcome of the game, and then qualified the latter by acknowleging that Al Gores contributions toward the creation of the internet were negligible at best.

 

[Da Guru]

I went to Michigan and I am a huge Brady fan, but with that huge lead and still throwing late in games I would not be suprised to see a defensive player accidently roll up on Bradys leg.

I hope it does not happen, but I would not be suprised if it did.

 

[mad sweeney]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy. Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

Again, u can make an arguement that video gate gave NE in advantage in the PAST, but it is laughable to make to try and make the arguement that it has ANY effect on the games they are playing now. I ask again, how does NE continue to gain an advantage when all opposing coaches need to do is change their signals or use decoys. It is ridiculous to even suggest that NE somehow has an ongoing advantage when even the most rudimentary precaution renders the accumulated information worthless. In fact, it is absurd to think NE would even consider relying on such information when they know the opposition can so easily give them false information.

It's extremely hard to paste any of the cheating labels on THIS team. I said when Spygate came out that ths was the best possible time for them to get caught because their team was so stacked they'll win "without cheating" handily and be able to fight the srgument that they cheated to win THIS year. However it's hard to ignore ANOTHER radio problem/irregularity while playing against the Patriots. There've been plenty of instances of this happening to Pat's opponents in the past, including week 1. And it's plain to see that BB is going to stop at nothing to not only win, but demoralize and demolish all opponents. His BS excuse last week about Cassell throwing another INT goes right out of the door this week with his playcalling and personnel choices. So to think that all of the shenanigans BB is implicated in and/or "convicted" of has suddenly stopped is a little short sighted and naive. As long as irregularities in RF and running up the score situations continue to happen, there will be an aura of cheating around the team outside of New England. And it's not the media's fault or the Patriot Haters fault, it's BB's fault for cheating and pushing the ethical envelope in the first place.And it's too bad because this year he doesn't NEED anything except the team that's on the field.

 

[Spartans Rule]

For that matter, how many snaps does an NFL offense take against an NFL defense? If the Pats are playing half of every game, those missed snaps are going to add up. If they were to go into Indy not clicking on every possible cylinder because theyd only take half the snaps the Colts had together, who's the jerk then? Personally i'll give the benefit of the doubt to the coach with 3 SB rings who's team looks like one of the best in history. Just maybe he knows a little more about coaching than all the Pat haters.

Each team's most valuable practice time, by far, is the 60 minutes of real live football you get each week. Why any team should be obligated to just toss that aside because they're playing well is beyond me.

 

[Downontheupside]

If Gibs had a sack he'd blitz a back up corner (when Brady was in the shotgun in the 4th up 38 points) and drill Brady in the chest with his helmet, long after the ball if out of his hand. If the Pats want to play unsportsmanlike than return the favor. If this was baseball someone would get beamed. It's sicking and one of these weeks the Pats will pay for it, if a fed up player taking a cheap shot doesn't get them, then karma will.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy. Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

Again, u can make an arguement that video gate gave NE in advantage in the PAST, but it is laughable to make to try and make the arguement that it has ANY effect on the games they are playing now. I ask again, how does NE continue to gain an advantage when all opposing coaches need to do is change their signals or use decoys. It is ridiculous to even suggest that NE somehow has an ongoing advantage when even the most rudimentary precaution renders the accumulated information worthless. In fact, it is absurd to think NE would even consider relying on such information when they know the opposition can so easily give them false information.

It's extremely hard to paste any of the cheating labels on THIS team. I said when Spygate came out that ths was the best possible time for them to get caught because their team was so stacked they'll win "without cheating" handily and be able to fight the srgument that they cheated to win THIS year. However it's hard to ignore ANOTHER radio problem/irregularity while playing against the Patriots. There've been plenty of instances of this happening to Pat's opponents in the past, including week 1. And it's plain to see that BB is going to stop at nothing to not only win, but demoralize and demolish all opponents. His BS excuse last week about Cassell throwing another INT goes right out of the door this week with his playcalling and personnel choices. So to think that all of the shenanigans BB is implicated in and/or "convicted" of has suddenly stopped is a little short sighted and naive. As long as irregularities in RF and running up the score situations continue to happen, there will be an aura of cheating around the team outside of New England. And it's not the media's fault or the Patriot Haters fault, it's BB's fault for cheating and pushing the ethical envelope in the first place.And it's too bad because this year he doesn't NEED anything except the team that's on the field.

It's late and I need to go to bed, but let me finish with this; NE did bring some of this on themselves by foolishly using a video camera when and where they shouldn't have been. Having said that, it is obvious that NE is much more talented than the teams they have faced so far and it is also obvious that they can't possibly defend themselves against every accusation made against them. IMO, BB opened the door for people to denigrate and cast aspirations on their previous accomplishments and that is too bad. But to continue to trash these guys going forward is not fair or right

 

[Steeler43]

To all those who want to trash what may very well prove to be the greatest team of all time at least you now have some amunition. Don't talk 2 me about spygate unless u can make a coherent argument as to how it has anything to do with the way NE has oblitereated their first 9 (oops I mean 8 ) opponents.

Well without spygate and all the other cheating the Patriots* have donde since 2001 they don't win a SB and therefore Randy Moss nor Donte Stallworth would be interested in playing for the Patriots*, so they would be as good as last year at best(offensively, defensively they are worse).

 

[Statcruncher]

Up until the Miami game I had no problem with the scores NE was posting. The Miami game was within reason, but 999 times out of 1000 there is no way any team comes back, let alone the putrid Miami offense without their starting QB. At that point I couldn't defend the Pats but I couldn't criticize them either. The Skins game today is unquestionably poor sportsmanship. When you have a kick-### defense with that kind of lead against a team who has only scored 3 offensive TD's in a game once all year (against Detroit) your are running up the score. PERIOD.

Now don't get me wrong, he has every right to run up the score. But please don't give me any BS about how important it is as the 9th tiebreaker because Strength of Victory and Strength of Schedule are the 5th and 6th tiebreakers which appear before any points for/against are even considered. The odds are astronomical that a tiebreaker would ever have to go further than SOV or SOS. If he wants to roll other teams and assert New England manhood by defecating on other teams it's his right, but it's also my right to form an opinion based upon his decisions.

It does make me lose respect for him though, because as a coach that's not the best coaching decision for his team. When you get a big lead that is the time to put in second stringers and reap multiple benefits.

#1 - You don't risk injuries to your stars in a game that's been long decided.

#2 - Your backups get extremely valuable game experience against a real opponent.

So you can either rack the score up and hope your guys don't get hurt while your backups jack around on the sideline holding a clipboard or you can get your backups better prepared in case of injuries while protecting your starters from injury. Obviously Bill doesn't believe in karma. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[scott72]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy. Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

Who cares?The 2007 Patriots may be the most dominant team in the history of sports.

Talk to me when they're 16-0. Until then they aren't. I don't care what anyone says, it was stupid for Brady and Co. to be in there that late in the game with a 41-0 lead. The Skins were NOT going to come back. I don't know how anyone can debate that with 10 mins left in the game. If they're putting records ahead of the big picture then they have issues. The risk of injury is too great imo. Up to this point BB has been lucky none of his key starters have been hurt late in blowouts. I'd love to hear what Pats fans would have to say had Brady blow out his MCL late in that game. Obviously they wouldn't be praising BB's decision to continue with the starters.

 

[Alias]

I do not think it was the right thing to do. NE should have run the ball and in all likelyhood would have scored the td anyway.

I respectfully disagree. To quote myself from another thread:

Empirical evidence suggests that Belichick considers any lead less than 40 points unsafe if there is meaningfull time on the clock. From a selfish, uninformed perspective, I agree with him. At 38-0 I wanted more points on the board. At 45-0, I wanted Brady out.It is helpful interpreting Belichick's actions not in terms of an emotional desire to punish others [edited to add or willingness to jeopardize a SB run for the sake of a TD record] but as borderline paranoid behavior. I have no doubt that he FEARED a comeback until 45-0.

NP, we can aggree to dissagree; I understand what you are saying about BB and I agree. However, in this instance I can't rationalize the play selection.

I am a big NE fan, and I usually avoid these threads. I think that we are going to see this all season for four reasons. I will list them in what I perceive the order of importance to NE.1) NE had Indy down 21-3 near the end of the first half in the AFC Championship game and lost the game. It was humiliating for the entire team and coaching staff. The offense couldn't get first downs. The D couldn't stop Indy when it mattered. Wr's dropped balls. The scheme to slow down Dallas Clark failed. Everyone player and coach eased off, at least a little, at some point in that game- if only for a play or two.Since they moment, they have, to quote a friend of mine "Driven it like they stole it." They signed free agents. They traded for players. They vowed- never again. The moment Belichick senses a moment of complacency, he can simply say 21-3. They are out for blood on every play.2) They are pissed about the "tainted title" thing.3) They have some concerns about their D. They have bouts where they let teams March down the field. They remember Indy. 4) Indy has had their number the past couple of years and they simply want to destroy them.

 

[North]

going for it on 4th down in two consecutive series while within FG range is the epitime (sp?) of running it up and shows a lack of class by NE. A FG puts you up 41-0 with under 10 to go in the 4th. The next series a fg puts you up 44-0 (or 44-7). Absolutely no need to go for it. And no need to continue to pass up like that when the def has shut down everything the skins did. Sorgi came in with 9 to go in the 4th.LT was out most of the 4th.both games were closer then NE's.

The thing you fail to realize is that BB has set out to demolish every team this year and has his players focused on breaking every record they can. BB wants to rewrite the record books after what happened to him.

 

[mad sweeney]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy. Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

Again, u can make an arguement that video gate gave NE in advantage in the PAST, but it is laughable to make to try and make the arguement that it has ANY effect on the games they are playing now. I ask again, how does NE continue to gain an advantage when all opposing coaches need to do is change their signals or use decoys. It is ridiculous to even suggest that NE somehow has an ongoing advantage when even the most rudimentary precaution renders the accumulated information worthless. In fact, it is absurd to think NE would even consider relying on such information when they know the opposition can so easily give them false information.

It's extremely hard to paste any of the cheating labels on THIS team. I said when Spygate came out that ths was the best possible time for them to get caught because their team was so stacked they'll win "without cheating" handily and be able to fight the srgument that they cheated to win THIS year. However it's hard to ignore ANOTHER radio problem/irregularity while playing against the Patriots. There've been plenty of instances of this happening to Pat's opponents in the past, including week 1. And it's plain to see that BB is going to stop at nothing to not only win, but demoralize and demolish all opponents. His BS excuse last week about Cassell throwing another INT goes right out of the door this week with his playcalling and personnel choices. So to think that all of the shenanigans BB is implicated in and/or "convicted" of has suddenly stopped is a little short sighted and naive. As long as irregularities in RF and running up the score situations continue to happen, there will be an aura of cheating around the team outside of New England. And it's not the media's fault or the Patriot Haters fault, it's BB's fault for cheating and pushing the ethical envelope in the first place.And it's too bad because this year he doesn't NEED anything except the team that's on the field.

It's late and I need to go to bed, but let me finish with this; NE did bring some of this on themselves by foolishly using a video camera when and where they shouldn't have been. Having said that, it is obvious that NE is much more talented than the teams they have faced so far and it is also obvious that they can't possibly defend themselves against every accusation made against them. IMO, BB opened the door for people to denigrate and cast aspirations on their previous accomplishments and that is too bad. But to continue to trash these guys going forward is not fair or right

They are continuing to bring it on themselves with their own actions. I'm not talking about going for it on 4th down. I think that's far more sporting than an automatic score. Just like last week against Miami when they ran it up the middle on 4th and scored. But to be playing at 38-0 and calling aggressive scoring plays and then in the pressers trying to play it off as just trying to win is going to bring more criticism on themselves. You can't honestly believe that there's a chance Washington is going to come back with 40 points in the 4th against this dominant team and for coaches and players to say so with a straight face and expect the world to believe they're not running up the score is insulting. And almost nobody outside of NE is buying it.

 

[mad sweeney]

going for it on 4th down in two consecutive series while within FG range is the epitime (sp?) of running it up and shows a lack of class by NE. A FG puts you up 41-0 with under 10 to go in the 4th. The next series a fg puts you up 44-0 (or 44-7). Absolutely no need to go for it. And no need to continue to pass up like that when the def has shut down everything the skins did. Sorgi came in with 9 to go in the 4th.LT was out most of the 4th.both games were closer then NE's.

The thing you fail to realize is that BB has set out to demolish every team this year and has his players focused on breaking every record they can. BB wants to rewrite the record books after what happened to him.

What exactly "happened" to him? Is getting caught cheating something that just "happens" to people? He brought it upon himself and his team and it's legacy and to use it as a "vicitmization" ploy is utterly ridiculous.

 

[scott72]

going for it on 4th down in two consecutive series while within FG range is the epitime (sp?) of running it up and shows a lack of class by NE. A FG puts you up 41-0 with under 10 to go in the 4th. The next series a fg puts you up 44-0 (or 44-7). Absolutely no need to go for it. And no need to continue to pass up like that when the def has shut down everything the skins did. Sorgi came in with 9 to go in the 4th.LT was out most of the 4th.both games were closer then NE's.

The thing you fail to realize is that BB has set out to demolish every team this year and has his players focused on breaking every record they can. BB wants to rewrite the record books after what happened to him.

What do you mean what happened to him? You make it sound like he was the victim here. He was the one cheating. So he's pis sed he got caught and going to make opponents pay for it?

 

[Jagerbomber]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy. Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

Again, u can make an arguement that video gate gave NE in advantage in the PAST, but it is laughable to make to try and make the arguement that it has ANY effect on the games they are playing now. I ask again, how does NE continue to gain an advantage when all opposing coaches need to do is change their signals or use decoys. It is ridiculous to even suggest that NE somehow has an ongoing advantage when even the most rudimentary precaution renders the accumulated information worthless. In fact, it is absurd to think NE would even consider relying on such information when they know the opposition can so easily give them false information.

It's extremely hard to paste any of the cheating labels on THIS team. I said when Spygate came out that ths was the best possible time for them to get caught because their team was so stacked they'll win "without cheating" handily and be able to fight the srgument that they cheated to win THIS year. However it's hard to ignore ANOTHER radio problem/irregularity while playing against the Patriots. There've been plenty of instances of this happening to Pat's opponents in the past, including week 1. And it's plain to see that BB is going to stop at nothing to not only win, but demoralize and demolish all opponents. His BS excuse last week about Cassell throwing another INT goes right out of the door this week with his playcalling and personnel choices. So to think that all of the shenanigans BB is implicated in and/or "convicted" of has suddenly stopped is a little short sighted and naive. As long as irregularities in RF and running up the score situations continue to happen, there will be an aura of cheating around the team outside of New England. And it's not the media's fault or the Patriot Haters fault, it's BB's fault for cheating and pushing the ethical envelope in the first place.And it's too bad because this year he doesn't NEED anything except the team that's on the field.

It's late and I need to go to bed, but let me finish with this; NE did bring some of this on themselves by foolishly using a video camera when and where they shouldn't have been. Having said that, it is obvious that NE is much more talented than the teams they have faced so far and it is also obvious that they can't possibly defend themselves against every accusation made against them. IMO, BB opened the door for people to denigrate and cast aspirations on their previous accomplishments and that is too bad. But to continue to trash these guys going forward is not fair or right

I respect your arguments. The "sin" of the coach shouldn't be the "sin" of the players. Obviously the element of jealousy and the degree of success is just making them an even bigger target. This whole business of having Brady go for big plays in blowout games is just compounding the issue. At the end of day though, if I was a Pats fan I could care less what fans of other teams will say.

The thing you fail to realize is that BB has set out to demolish every team this year and has his players focused on breaking every record they can. BB wants to rewrite the record books after what happened to him.

What happened to him? Does he have cancer or something?

 

[eom]

I'm not reading this thread, but I eagerly look fwd to the pats running it up on every team they play this year --- which would include all the losers you losers root for -- and not just because brady's my qb and is kicking my league in the ###.

 

[OCC]

Any way you slice it, they ran it up.

All the talk about the Skins the "perfect" team to shut them down. *lol*

The Pats are on a mission this year. They have the talent, the coaching, the only thing that will slow them down are injuries.

And yes BB wants the undefeated season, and the passing record for Brady. I don't want to hear about how he won't risk Brady for an undefeated season. He's risking him in a 38-0 4th quarter game by having him drop back and throw passes. They aren't going to play scared or play to avoid injury. They are going ballz to the wall all year, and people better get used to it.

 

[Phlash]

Alright, I have had plenty enough of the crap people are spewing out lately, whining that the Patriots are running up the score. These men aren't playing pee-wee football anymore. There's a reason there is no mercy rule. Football is a business. If you were the executive of a sales department, and you were selling 20% more than your competitor, would you tell your sales people to slow down their attempts at getting accounts as to let the competition crawl back into it? NO! You do NOT hold back. You push towards 25%, then 30%, and keep pushing! You never stop.

Theres a relevant quote to this:

"Losers quit when they're tired. Winners quit when they've won." - Author Unknown

YOU DON'T LET UP EVER, not until the clocks expired. They only take out Brady when the game is "safe," yet they're still passing because the guys on this team are competitors. They won't quit because the other team can't stop them.

Theres a reason they're still getting better, as well. Belichick is going to feed these guys a bunch of humble pie after this game, in his weekly attempt to remove mistakes that crop up. Belichick must have been an Arnold Mori fan:

"Winners build on mistakes. Losers dwell on them."

-Arnold Mori

This Patriots team is so good because they are not becoming lackadaisical. They give it their all EVERY down and EVERY play, and scarily enough they are still improving.

All that matters after the game is who gets the W. Whichever team has the most points gets the left column incremented, and the points don't really matter at all. Who cares if they win by 1 point or 30 points? They still only get one win. The team is just making sure they can't lose - they're going to give it their all the whole game to keep the opponent down. If you expect them to lay down to make you/your team feel better, you need another sport. This isn't the little leagues anymore.

 

[Statorama]

I went to Michigan and I am a huge Brady fan, but with that huge lead and still throwing late in games I would not be suprised to see a defensive player accidently roll up on Bradys leg.I hope it does not happen, but I would not be suprised if it did.

On any running play, Brady is considered just another blocker....I'm just sayin....

 

[eom]

maybe what the other teams should do would be to just forfeit when the score gets too high that it hurt their widdle feewings.

or, they could just try to run out the clock instead of trying to score.

 

[Road Warriors]

going for it on 4th down in two consecutive series while within FG range is the epitime (sp?) of running it up and shows a lack of class by NE. A FG puts you up 41-0 with under 10 to go in the 4th. The next series a fg puts you up 44-0 (or 44-7). Absolutely no need to go for it. And no need to continue to pass up like that when the def has shut down everything the skins did.

Sorgi came in with 9 to go in the 4th.

LT was out most of the 4th.

both games were closer then NE's.

The thing you fail to realize is that BB has set out to demolish every team this year and has his players focused on breaking every record they can. BB wants to rewrite the record books after what happened to him.

What exactly "happened" to him? Is getting caught cheating something that just "happens" to people? He brought it upon himself and his team and it's legacy and to use it as a "vicitmization" ploy is utterly ridiculous genius.

Fixed. For BB to come up with a way to take this extremely talented team and make them feel disrespected is pure genius. This team has made a living playing on emotion and "proving the world wrong" Somehow, BB has found something to make the favorites feel like the underdogs. While I agree with the OP point of view that the win over the 'skins was over the top, one thing keeps coming back to me. The coach's job is to get his team ready to play every week, and no coach has done that better this year. For a team as talented as this Patriots team is to stay as absolutely focused on their current opponent every week is amazing.

 

[SR388]

Alright, I have had plenty enough of the crap people are spewing out lately, whining that the Patriots are running up the score. These men aren't playing pee-wee football anymore. There's a reason there is no mercy rule. Football is a business. If you were the executive of a sales department, and you were selling 20% more than your competitor, would you tell your sales people to slow down their attempts at getting accounts as to let the competition crawl back into it? NO! You do NOT hold back. You push towards 25%, then 30%, and keep pushing! You never stop.

Theres a relevant quote to this:

"Losers quit when they're tired. Winners quit when they've won." - Author Unknown

YOU DON'T LET UP EVER, not until the clocks expired. They only take out Brady when the game is "safe," yet they're still passing because the guys on this team are competitors. They won't quit because the other team can't stop them.

Theres a reason they're still getting better, as well. Belichick is going to feed these guys a bunch of humble pie after this game, in his weekly attempt to remove mistakes that crop up. Belichick must have been an Arnold Mori fan:

"Winners build on mistakes. Losers dwell on them."

-Arnold Mori

This Patriots team is so good because they are not becoming lackadaisical. They give it their all EVERY down and EVERY play, and scarily enough they are still improving.

All that matters after the game is who gets the W. Whichever team has the most points gets the left column incremented, and the points don't really matter at all. Who cares if they win by 1 point or 30 points? They still only get one win. The team is just making sure they can't lose - they're going to give it their all the whole game to keep the opponent down. If you expect them to lay down to make you/your team feel better, you need another sport. This isn't the little leagues anymore.

Wow. That's quite dramatic interpretation.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I do not think it was the right thing to do. NE should have run the ball and in all likelyhood would have scored the td anyway.

I respectfully disagree. To quote myself from another thread:

Empirical evidence suggests that Belichick considers any lead less than 40 points unsafe if there is meaningfull time on the clock. From a selfish, uninformed perspective, I agree with him. At 38-0 I wanted more points on the board. At 45-0, I wanted Brady out.It is helpful interpreting Belichick's actions not in terms of an emotional desire to punish others [edited to add or willingness to jeopardize a SB run for the sake of a TD record] but as borderline paranoid behavior. I have no doubt that he FEARED a comeback until 45-0.

All I can say is you got to be kidding me. At 38-0 you felt unsafe but at 45-0 all was OK in Patriot land, whatever.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I'm not reading this thread, but I eagerly look fwd to the pats running it up on every team they play this year --- which would include all the losers you losers root for -- and not just because brady's my qb and is kicking my league in the ###.

You shouldn't post in a thread you don't take the time to read then.

 

[Bad_Mo]

Anyone who has paid attention over the last 7 years knows that I am as big a Pats fan as you will ever find. NE has falsely been accused of running up the score in the past and up until today, much like shooting fish in a barrell I can easily justify why NE did exactly what I want my HC and my team to do (bring it on if u think otherwise).

However, when NE passed in the RZ while leading 38-0 with aprox 10 mins to go I have to admit that (even though I have Brady on 3 of my fantasy teams) I do not think it was the right thing to do. NE should have run the ball and in all likelyhood would have scored the td anyway.

To all those who want to trash what may very well prove to be the greatest team of all time at least you now have some amunition. Don't talk 2 me about spygate unless u can make a coherent argument as to how it has anything to do with the way NE has oblitereated their first 9 (oops I mean 8 ) opponents.

Let me also concede (however grudgingly) that there now is at least a sliver of evidence that maybe, just maybe there is something to the theory that NE might be interested in the TD passing record. I really don't think so, but given what happened, I can't simply discount it as easily as I could in week 6. IMO the TD passing record takes a back seat to an undefeated season which takes a back seat to a SB win. However, while I admit that I believe the TD is passing record is not on NEs radar, I do believe an undefeated season is something NE will "go for" should the oportunity present itself (IE they get past INDY and are 15-0 facing the NYG).

Write this down; Tom Brady will NOT set the TD passing record because:

A. Most of NEs remaining games will be played outdoors and Nov-Dec weather in the Northeast is not conducive to throwing the football.

B. When push comes to shove all Brady cares about is winning.

I don't agree with the play calling when up by 38-0, but listening the BS directed at NE thus far this year I don't have any problem with them saying effu to all the haters.

Pats Haters stand right up and pile on with regard to running it up; but if u want to whine about cheating please be specific (Goodell is on record as saying NE had no advantage in game 1) with your accusations.

Did Charley Casserly have anything to say about the Pats jamming communications between opposing coordinators and QBs? What happened today with the Skins not having communication between their booth and sideline coaches?Not that this means anything at all. But, there sure seems to be very antiquated/poor technology at Gillette, I guess.

C'mon...we all know for a fact that it was Jason Campbell intentionally shutting his helmet off because the plays the coordinator was giving him weren't working.

 

[Obie Wan]

First I give you credit for acknowledging that your team is doing something unsportsmanlike by running up the score. I know it is hard to be critical of your team.As far as the Cheatscape, I can't say for certain that Bellichicks cheating has made a difference, but we did know that that they had a "library" of information on teams, and presumably that information could have been copied. Just because they have stopped collecting information doesn't mean that they lost all their advantage. As far as Goodell saying that they gained no advantage, he would, of course. As the commishioner it is bad for the league if people think the best team is cheating and gaining an advantage, especially with all of the gambling that goes on. So even if they did have a huge advantage he wouldn't admit it publicly. One thing that supports the idea that it was more of an advantage than the league lets on is the fact that they destroyed all the evidence without showing it to the media or the other teams. Even a NE fan has to admit that smells a bit fishy. Unfortunately, but no matter how great this team does this year the aura of cheating will hang over their accomplishments.

Again, u can make an arguement that video gate gave NE in advantage in the PAST, but it is laughable to make to try and make the arguement that it has ANY effect on the games they are playing now. I ask again, how does NE continue to gain an advantage when all opposing coaches need to do is change their signals or use decoys. It is ridiculous to even suggest that NE somehow has an ongoing advantage when even the most rudimentary precaution renders the accumulated information worthless. In fact, it is absurd to think NE would even consider relying on such information when they know the opposition can so easily give them false information.

The video stuff was a diversion.The key cheating component that was never adequately addressed or reseolved was the Pats unauthorized use of additional frequencies -- to steal live offenmsive and defensive play calls during current games.Brady looks great because he knows what the defense is doing.Teams would be better off letting their players on the field make the calls

 

[Godsbrother]

Brady looks great because he knows what the defense is doing.

Brady is a great QB, perhaps one of the best ever, but his o-line is not getting nearly enough credit. Brady almost never has any pressure on him and is sacked even less. I am not taking anything away from him because he is great but I would love to see Tom Brady face the kind of pressure that Marc Bulger faces and see what happens to his QB rating. His offensive line is doing a fantastic job protecting him.

 

[PMENFAN]

going for it on 4th down in two consecutive series while within FG range is the epitime (sp?) of running it up and shows a lack of class by NE. A FG puts you up 41-0 with under 10 to go in the 4th. The next series a fg puts you up 44-0 (or 44-7). Absolutely no need to go for it. And no need to continue to pass up like that when the def has shut down everything the skins did. Sorgi came in with 9 to go in the 4th.LT was out most of the 4th.both games were closer then NE's.

Really? Going for it on fourth down, twice, in lieu of taking the easy 3, doesn't give the defense the oportunity to make a stop and keep any points off of the board, twice? I think going for it on fourth down is far more sportsmanlike, because it give the defense an opportunity to make one play and keep any more points off the board. To reverse the argumnet. IF they're not supposed to try, why not punt as soon as they get the ball? Tell me, just where is the sport in running your players into a 9 man front, time and again, just to be a good sport? We have people with a feigned concern for injury, advocating plays that have 14 guys 250 and up piling onto each other. Gee, which is a larger risk of injury? That, or running plays where the guys are going ot get taken down in a typical fashion? I say the latter. To read most of these posts, if the Pats do anything other than just lay it on the ground, they're being bad sports. They've got a target on their backs, or course. It's been there for years. Nobody seems to be able to hit it though.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Brady looks great because he knows what the defense is doing.

Brady is a great QB, perhaps one of the best ever, but his o-line is not getting nearly enough credit. Brady almost never has any pressure on him and is sacked even less. I am not taking anything away from him because he is great but I would love to see Tom Brady face the kind of pressure that Marc Bulger faces and see what happens to his QB rating. His offensive line is doing a fantastic job protecting him.

That's an excellent point. He's not getting touched. But to be fair, Brady is the first guy to give credit to his OL. J

 

[Obie Wan]

I went to Michigan and I am a huge Brady fan, but with that huge lead and still throwing late in games I would not be suprised to see a defensive player accidently roll up on Bradys leg.I hope it does not happen, but I would not be suprised if it did.

On any running play, Brady is considered just another blocker....I'm just sayin....

more likely to happen on a fake spike play.Those seem to be happening pretty frequently as the Pats rush to run up the score..

 

[Obie Wan]

going for it on 4th down in two consecutive series while within FG range is the epitime (sp?) of running it up and shows a lack of class by NE. A FG puts you up 41-0 with under 10 to go in the 4th. The next series a fg puts you up 44-0 (or 44-7). Absolutely no need to go for it. And no need to continue to pass up like that when the def has shut down everything the skins did. Sorgi came in with 9 to go in the 4th.LT was out most of the 4th.both games were closer then NE's.

The thing you fail to realize is that BB has set out to demolish every team this year and has his players focused on breaking every record they can. BB wants to rewrite the record books after what happened to him.

what's happened to him?what - got caught cheating?He's continuting to cheat by stealing real time plays calls from the other team.

 

[PMENFAN]

Brady looks great because he knows what the defense is doing.

Brady is a great QB, perhaps one of the best ever, but his o-line is not getting nearly enough credit. Brady almost never has any pressure on him and is sacked even less. I am not taking anything away from him because he is great but I would love to see Tom Brady face the kind of pressure that Marc Bulger faces and see what happens to his QB rating. His offensive line is doing a fantastic job protecting him.

That's an excellent point. He's not getting touched. But to be fair, Brady is the first guy to give credit to his OL. J

True. Anybody who knows football knows the best QB is nothing w/o a line. IT's the core of the team. It's also why this line is all locked for 5 more years, and still relatively young.

 

[thehornet]

Anyone who has paid attention over the last 7 years knows that I am as big a Pats fan as you will ever find. NE has falsely been accused of running up the score in the past and up until today, much like shooting fish in a barrell I can easily justify why NE did exactly what I want my HC and my team to do (bring it on if u think otherwise).

So, after today, do you not wonder about previous allegations ?

allegations? Dude, get a life.

 

[Workhorse]

As a Pats fan, Brady continuing to throw the ball up 38 points made me....um....a little bit uncomfortable.

Just being honest.

 

[OU#1]

Are you kidding me? This is stat padding and running up the score.

Going for it on 4th and 1?

Hello your defense is pretty much top in the NFL right now...and you need more than a 38 point cushion?

You are in some serious denial if you think otherwise. Get your homer head out of your ###.

After yesterday I'm pretty sure the bounty will rise.

 

[((Morpheus))]

going for it on 4th down in two consecutive series while within FG range is the epitime (sp?) of running it up and shows a lack of class by NE. A FG puts you up 41-0 with under 10 to go in the 4th. The next series a fg puts you up 44-0 (or 44-7). Absolutely no need to go for it. And no need to continue to pass up like that when the def has shut down everything the skins did. Sorgi came in with 9 to go in the 4th.LT was out most of the 4th.both games were closer then NE's.

Cassell came in with 9 to go in the 4th.Maroney was out most of the 4th.What's your point?Do you want the Pats to start kneeling halfway through the 3rd?

 

[mbuehner]

The key cheating component that was never adequately addressed or reseolved was the Pats unauthorized use of additional frequencies -- to steal live offenmsive and defensive play calls during current games.

That doesnt make any sense- if that were the case they would be listening, not broadcasting. You dont use an additional frequency to listen in on a frequency. If that allegation is true its because they had somebody besides the QBs helmet miked up, such as a defensive captain. No-one has ever proven this either way.