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Need Dog Buying Tips (1 Viewer)

Why do you suppose it is that shelters, rescue outfits, breeders, and vets are of the opinion that dogs shouldn't be left outside all the time?
Because (and reading all of the posted articles confirms this), it is assumed the dog will be alone, have little to no space and will be exposed to the elements.

I have addressed all 3 of those issues extensively. There will be two dogs. I have yet to see a single statement made from anyone outside that two dogs would end up feeling lonely, separation anxiety, etc. Every single article assumes a single dog. There also is a lot about pens, tied up and small yards/no shade. This yard has almost complete shade in the Summer due to being in a heavily wooded area. A more than adequate dog house will be made by my son and I and the mud room will likely have a doggie door for them to come and go as they please.

The dogs will not be lonely, they will not be bored, they will not be ignored, they will not be left to suffer from the elements. None of anything I have read (outside of this thread) indicates what I am doing will be cruel to the dogs.
Can you just answer WHY you even want to get dogs?
To love and be loved by our family. To play and enjoy each other. My kids will run with them and play with them every day they can. My son asks me something about getting a dog almost every day. We WANT a dog... all of us.

I just am baffled at how much the "rules" have changed in 20 years. The last time I had a dog everything I'm describing would have been fine, but now, for reasons I'm still not sure about, what I am describing is being called cruel. I'm being told I'm not fit to have a dog. I'm not Michael Vick. How is it more humane to have a dog in an apartment all day while you are at work? Is that seriously better than what I am describing? I'm just absolutely baffled by this whole thread.

 
I can picture it now. Its a cold winter night in Jayrodville, the fire place is crackling with a warm glow as the wife and kids frolic in their living room and Jayrod sits in his easy chair puffing away on his pipe over looking the entire scene. Mean while his two pure breeds are sitting outside looking through a frosted window and wishing they could be inside next to the warm,dry fireplace and with the family they devote their lives to.

It warms my heart I tell ya.

 
Lots of great advice in here. Just a few things to add. Rescue groups will work with you to match the right dog(s) for your family and allow you to bring the dog home on a trial basis. Not so sure a breeder will. Also, getting 2 dogs at the same time does not guarantee they get along with each other. Again, a rescue group will not adopt to you if the dogs don't get along, so they'll work to ensure you get a good match.

And if you're going to leave them outside, please don't get a dog and let a responsible owner take yours instead.
I know that quite a few rescue groups won't let you adopt if the dogs are going to stay outside.
Yeah I was going to add that. I volunteer for 2 groups, and if a potential owner said the dogs would be housed outside their apps would be thrown away.
X2 - I volunteer at a Boxer rescue and this is one of the first questions we ask. By they way, 100 degree in high humidity is going to be miserable for a long hair dog. This is in humane.
X3 - volunteer for a Weimaraner rescue. They wouldn't make it to the home visit phase.
Shetland Sheep dogs of NJ. If the homeowner even has a doggy door where the dogs are free to go in and out as they please, they're probably not getting one. Other big flags are in-ground pools (where the dog has access) and trampolines.

 
where did the "20 years" come from?
Not sure about others, but that was when I was 16 and we last had dogs. We had them in a very similar situation to which I'm describing and I thought everything was great.

Apparently we were the Manson's and I just didn't know it.

 
Can you just answer WHY you even want to get dogs?
To love and be loved by our family. To play and enjoy each other. My kids will run with them and play with them every day they can. My son asks me something about getting a dog almost every day. We WANT a dog... all of us.
How about getting over being a neat freak and letting the dog be with your family, both inside and outside? Is that an option? As an alternative, there are dogs that don't shed.

 
Hmmmmmm...

I had a few dogs growing up.. none were "indoor" dogs.. Two german sheperds and a lab...

They were allowed in the polebarns, garages, sheds etc.. but not the house.. I really didn't think it was a big deal but according to this thread

it looks like we abused them.. :confused:
No. Everyone acknowledges the difference between a free-range farm or 10+ acre situation and a half acrr suburban situation.Jayrod just doesn't see the difference
Gotcha..

We had 20 acres.. I'm not saying that I didn't know people with "indoor" dogs, but they were few and far between and mostly old people with lap dogs.

Outdoor dogs were pretty much all I knew growing up... but then again they had heated pens or sheds and free run of the property.. never seemed abused

or lacking for attention or anything... I was just trying to figure out why a dog HAD to be indoors...

 
Jayrod - don't listen to these people. if all the rescue groups won't give you a dog, let me know.

I know a nice mill that sells puppies and they will be happy to sell you one, two or fifty. They are well known and have been featured on many TV shows, like 60 Minutes.

 
I can picture it now. Its a cold winter night in Jayrodville, the fire place is crackling with a warm glow as the wife and kids frolic in their living room and Jayrod sits in his easy chair puffing away on his pipe over looking the entire scene. Mean while his two pure breeds are sitting outside looking through a frosted window and wishing they could be inside next to the warm,dry fireplace and with the family they devote their lives to.

It warms my heart I tell ya.
Wife of Jayrod: "Honey is that you wimpering?"

Jayrod: "Of course not my dear. It's our two beloved dogs that we so kindly allowed into our lives, watching us from the window. That reminds me, we really must have them de-barked."

 
Why do you suppose it is that shelters, rescue outfits, breeders, and vets are of the opinion that dogs shouldn't be left outside all the time?
Because (and reading all of the posted articles confirms this), it is assumed the dog will be alone, have little to no space and will be exposed to the elements.

I have addressed all 3 of those issues extensively. There will be two dogs. I have yet to see a single statement made from anyone outside that two dogs would end up feeling lonely, separation anxiety, etc. Every single article assumes a single dog. There also is a lot about pens, tied up and small yards/no shade. This yard has almost complete shade in the Summer due to being in a heavily wooded area. A more than adequate dog house will be made by my son and I and the mud room will likely have a doggie door for them to come and go as they please.

The dogs will not be lonely, they will not be bored, they will not be ignored, they will not be left to suffer from the elements. None of anything I have read (outside of this thread) indicates what I am doing will be cruel to the dogs.
Can you just answer WHY you even want to get dogs?
To love and be loved by our family. To play and enjoy each other. My kids will run with them and play with them every day they can. My son asks me something about getting a dog almost every day. We WANT a dog... all of us.

I just am baffled at how much the "rules" have changed in 20 years. The last time I had a dog everything I'm describing would have been fine, but now, for reasons I'm still not sure about, what I am describing is being called cruel. I'm being told I'm not fit to have a dog. I'm not Michael Vick. How is it more humane to have a dog in an apartment all day while you are at work? Is that seriously better than what I am describing? I'm just absolutely baffled by this whole thread.
So, when it's 40 degrees outside and it starts getting dark around 5:30 are you and your kids going to go outside and play with them? Or will they just have to wait for their "family time" when it's the weekend?

 
where did the "20 years" come from?
Not sure about others, but that was when I was 16 and we last had dogs. We had them in a very similar situation to which I'm describing and I thought everything was great.

Apparently we were the Manson's and I just didn't know it.
dogs can be happy being primarily outdoor dogs. the part that's alienating everyone is where you say you'd never bring them inside, even in extreme weather. now maybe you would and you're not expressing that. also, the reason you wouldn't bring them in is because of a little mess sounds....well.....pretty heartless actually.

 
I guess this is fishing. Again, no problems with you personally Jayrod.

It's just odd to get a dog with the mindset they will be exclusively outside dogs. It shows you don't really want a dog for the right reasons.

If you want your kids to play with a dog all the time. Bring them down weekly to a local animal shelter and have the kids walk and play with the animals there. It's fulfilling your need to have a few dogs outside to play with and also serving the purpose of having no responsibility for them.

Your kids will grow up. They will become more interested in friends and other activities. Those dogs will go months and months at some point in their lives without being "played with every day".

Dogs bark. Do you have neighbors in the nearby vicinity? It's a bit of a nuisance to hear 2 dogs barking all day long outdoors while you aren't home. If my neighbors had dogs and left them outside 365 days a year, I'd be calling the humane society the first day it dropped under 32 degrees. They'll be companions with each other? Great, what happens when one of them dies from a congenital issue because you bought from a breeder? Just take him out back Old Yeller style because he no longer has a companion?

Dogs aren't for you. As someone who's worked and volunteered in animal shelters and fostered dogs for years, dogs are NOT for you. It's not saying you're a bad person, but you aren't a good candidate and I'd never let a dog go to someone of your ilk based on what I see here.

Good luck, but you really should look into a goat or a bunch of chickens or something.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Finally found it.

The real reason he want's to keep his dogs outside the house

Revelations 22:15

Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practises falsehood.
 
If you're looking for an answer, then start looking. There is plenty available on the internet that will discuss how damaging and unhealthy it is for dogs to be kept outside 100% of the time. Or talk to a local shelter. Or talk to your vet.

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

Link 4

Here's a quote from one of those that is all the answer you need:

DOGS ARE PACK ANIMALS THAT THRIVE ON COMPANIONSHIP. Much like their wolf ancestors, dogs are very social. In fact, dogs are more social than humans and need to be part of human families. When you own a dog, you become the dog's pack and he wants to be with his pack. Forcing a dog to live outside with little or no human companionship is one of the most psychological damaging things a pet owner can do to a dog.
Once again, it is 100% selfish to a dog to keep it away from the family and not let it in the house to live.
I'm reading the attached articles. After reading the first article, here is a great response that I feel is similar to me.

My whole life I've had dogs that lived entirely outdoors. No, they weren't on chains or confined to a certain part of the yard--they were given the entire backyard which was fenced and, generally, inescapable. Sometimes they'd find a loose board, knock it down, and slip off to the nearby creek at night but they'd always be home in the morning, we'd patch up the hole, and life would go on. They weren't poisoned or hurt by wild animals or shot or any other horrible thing that you could dream up to happen. They had adventures five nights out of the year. End of story.

For shelter, we cut a dog-door into the garage which led to an eight-by-ten dog run complete with their own doghouses and stuffed knee-high with fresh straw. It kept them out of the wind and was much warmer than a doghouse alone would be.

My dogs never went insane from loneliness because we always kept at least two at a time. This provided them a pack and filled their canine need for constant companionship. To top it off, four kids would go in and out of the backyard to play all day long so they had their fill of human company, too.

They survived negative degree winters and 110+ summers. When I was young, we never bathed the dogs because they didn't look dirty, smelled fine except when rained on, and hated baths anyway. They got all the vet care they needed but the closest we ever came to 'professionally grooming' them was when we sent an especially long-haired spaniel to get her fur clipped at the start of spring each year to help keep her cool. Each lived to be at least thirteen years old--I've currently got one going on fifteen.

The only dog I'd ever recommend keeping in a house is one incapable of weathering the conditions--a thin furred breed like a greyhound or a very small dog starting from pug-size down. I also wouldn't force a cold-weather breed like a husky to stick it out through the midday heat during summer. There are exceptions like these, but for most dogs--medium fur, thirty pounds up, most run-of-the-mill mutts you'd find in your local shelter--I'd say living outside year-round would suit them fine.

I'll end by saying this--I'd like anyone to take a look at my two outdoor dogs who are healthy, happy, and just as good as any indoor pet and tell me that I'm a cruel, heartless monster who doesn't understand what they're going through and isn't fit to pay their vet bills, clean up their poo, and taken them on long, glorious walks that neither of us ever want to end.
So after all the links and articles, THAT is what you pulled from it to confirm that it's ok?

I give up. This thread really pisses me off.

 
I think by keeping the dogs separated, you're not going to truly appreciate your dogs. They become part of the family. They follow you because they don't like being alone and they respond to the mood of the family. They cheer you up when you need it, and they give you space when you need it. And all they want is acceptance and your approval. I just couldn't imagine leaving my dogs outside instead of laying near my chair bringing me a tug toy when they get bored. Or nudging my arm when they need a good scratch behind the ear. They're not just an accessory to be used when you feel like it.

 
And you're also wrong about dogs not being happy in apartments. Dog's are social animals and all they care about is making their family happy. They will adapt to whatever surrounding you put them in. Large dogs can do just fine in apartments as long you do your part and take them for daily walks to get exercise and other stimulation.

 
This was not fishing.

I'm honestly in utter shock. I've never heard of any animal being REQUIRED to be kept indoors for it to be humane. Never.

I feel like I'm in an episode of Portlandia or something.

 
Why do you suppose it is that shelters, rescue outfits, breeders, and vets are of the opinion that dogs shouldn't be left outside all the time?
Because (and reading all of the posted articles confirms this), it is assumed the dog will be alone, have little to no space and will be exposed to the elements.

I have addressed all 3 of those issues extensively. There will be two dogs. I have yet to see a single statement made from anyone outside that two dogs would end up feeling lonely, separation anxiety, etc. Every single article assumes a single dog. There also is a lot about pens, tied up and small yards/no shade. This yard has almost complete shade in the Summer due to being in a heavily wooded area. A more than adequate dog house will be made by my son and I and the mud room will likely have a doggie door for them to come and go as they please.

The dogs will not be lonely, they will not be bored, they will not be ignored, they will not be left to suffer from the elements. None of anything I have read (outside of this thread) indicates what I am doing will be cruel to the dogs.
are you gonna talk to a vet?

the dogs, both of them see your family as their pack

one of the articles specifically said being left outside when the pack is inside is seen as punishment

they will be lonely, they will have a pack and will not be permitted to be with that pack most of the time

 
And you're also wrong about dogs not being happy in apartments. Dog's are social animals and all they care about is making their family happy. They will adapt to whatever surrounding you put them in. Large dogs can do just fine in apartments as long you do your part and take them for daily walks to get exercise and other stimulation.
Then how is what I'm describing wrong?

 
This was not fishing.

I'm honestly in utter shock. I've never heard of any animal being REQUIRED to be kept indoors for it to be humane. Never.

I feel like I'm in an episode of Portlandia or something.
Why do you suppose it is that shelters, rescue outfits, breeders, and vets are of the opinion that dogs shouldn't be left outside all the time?
Because (and reading all of the posted articles confirms this), it is assumed the dog will be alone, have little to no space and will be exposed to the elements.

I have addressed all 3 of those issues extensively. There will be two dogs. I have yet to see a single statement made from anyone outside that two dogs would end up feeling lonely, separation anxiety, etc. Every single article assumes a single dog. There also is a lot about pens, tied up and small yards/no shade. This yard has almost complete shade in the Summer due to being in a heavily wooded area. A more than adequate dog house will be made by my son and I and the mud room will likely have a doggie door for them to come and go as they please.

The dogs will not be lonely, they will not be bored, they will not be ignored, they will not be left to suffer from the elements. None of anything I have read (outside of this thread) indicates what I am doing will be cruel to the dogs.
are you gonna talk to a vet?

the dogs, both of them see your family as their pack

one of the articles specifically said being left outside when the pack is inside is seen as punishment

they will be lonely, they will have a pack and will not be permitted to be with that pack most of the time
He does not understand that what he sees as cruel is only from a physical standpoint.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Why do you suppose it is that shelters, rescue outfits, breeders, and vets are of the opinion that dogs shouldn't be left outside all the time?
Because (and reading all of the posted articles confirms this), it is assumed the dog will be alone, have little to no space and will be exposed to the elements.

I have addressed all 3 of those issues extensively. There will be two dogs. I have yet to see a single statement made from anyone outside that two dogs would end up feeling lonely, separation anxiety, etc. Every single article assumes a single dog. There also is a lot about pens, tied up and small yards/no shade. This yard has almost complete shade in the Summer due to being in a heavily wooded area. A more than adequate dog house will be made by my son and I and the mud room will likely have a doggie door for them to come and go as they please.

The dogs will not be lonely, they will not be bored, they will not be ignored, they will not be left to suffer from the elements. None of anything I have read (outside of this thread) indicates what I am doing will be cruel to the dogs.
are you gonna talk to a vet?

the dogs, both of them see your family as their pack

one of the articles specifically said being left outside when the pack is inside is seen as punishment

they will be lonely, they will have a pack and will not be permitted to be with that pack most of the time
Dude. They're WOLVES. Wolves don't use vets in the wild. :rolleyes:

 
Why do you suppose it is that shelters, rescue outfits, breeders, and vets are of the opinion that dogs shouldn't be left outside all the time?
Because (and reading all of the posted articles confirms this), it is assumed the dog will be alone, have little to no space and will be exposed to the elements.

I have addressed all 3 of those issues extensively. There will be two dogs. I have yet to see a single statement made from anyone outside that two dogs would end up feeling lonely, separation anxiety, etc. Every single article assumes a single dog. There also is a lot about pens, tied up and small yards/no shade. This yard has almost complete shade in the Summer due to being in a heavily wooded area. A more than adequate dog house will be made by my son and I and the mud room will likely have a doggie door for them to come and go as they please.

The dogs will not be lonely, they will not be bored, they will not be ignored, they will not be left to suffer from the elements. None of anything I have read (outside of this thread) indicates what I am doing will be cruel to the dogs.
Can you just answer WHY you even want to get dogs?
To love and be loved by our family. To play and enjoy each other. My kids will run with them and play with them every day they can. My son asks me something about getting a dog almost every day. We WANT a dog... all of us.

I just am baffled at how much the "rules" have changed in 20 years. The last time I had a dog everything I'm describing would have been fine, but now, for reasons I'm still not sure about, what I am describing is being called cruel. I'm being told I'm not fit to have a dog. I'm not Michael Vick. How is it more humane to have a dog in an apartment all day while you are at work? Is that seriously better than what I am describing? I'm just absolutely baffled by this whole thread.
This was not fishing.

I'm honestly in utter shock. I've never heard of any animal being REQUIRED to be kept indoors for it to be humane. Never.

I feel like I'm in an episode of Portlandia or something.
so the question you have to ask is

are we some bizarre subset of the population, or are you wrong?

 
This was not fishing.

I'm honestly in utter shock. I've never heard of any animal being REQUIRED to be kept indoors for it to be humane. Never.

I feel like I'm in an episode of Portlandia or something.
And honestly, this is exactly why you SHOULDN'T get a dog, because you don't understand. Not everyone should have a dog and that's why there are so many in shelters waiting for good homes.

 
And you're also wrong about dogs not being happy in apartments. Dog's are social animals and all they care about is making their family happy. They will adapt to whatever surrounding you put them in. Large dogs can do just fine in apartments as long you do your part and take them for daily walks to get exercise and other stimulation.
Then how is what I'm describing wrong?
Describe where they're going to get the love and affection that a pack animal requires for a healthy psyche?

 
This was not fishing.

I'm honestly in utter shock. I've never heard of any animal being REQUIRED to be kept indoors for it to be humane. Never.

I feel like I'm in an episode of Portlandia or something.
And honestly, this is exactly why you SHOULDN'T get a dog, because you don't understand. Not everyone should have a dog and that's why there are so many in shelters waiting for good homes.
which his wife has ruled out because, well, because she wants to blow a grand on some living lawn ornaments

 
Why do you suppose it is that shelters, rescue outfits, breeders, and vets are of the opinion that dogs shouldn't be left outside all the time?
Because (and reading all of the posted articles confirms this), it is assumed the dog will be alone, have little to no space and will be exposed to the elements.

I have addressed all 3 of those issues extensively. There will be two dogs. I have yet to see a single statement made from anyone outside that two dogs would end up feeling lonely, separation anxiety, etc. Every single article assumes a single dog. There also is a lot about pens, tied up and small yards/no shade. This yard has almost complete shade in the Summer due to being in a heavily wooded area. A more than adequate dog house will be made by my son and I and the mud room will likely have a doggie door for them to come and go as they please.

The dogs will not be lonely, they will not be bored, they will not be ignored, they will not be left to suffer from the elements. None of anything I have read (outside of this thread) indicates what I am doing will be cruel to the dogs.
are you gonna talk to a vet?

the dogs, both of them see your family as their pack

one of the articles specifically said being left outside when the pack is inside is seen as punishment

they will be lonely, they will have a pack and will not be permitted to be with that pack most of the time
If you're looking for an answer, then start looking. There is plenty available on the internet that will discuss how damaging and unhealthy it is for dogs to be kept outside 100% of the time. Or talk to a local shelter. Or talk to your vet.

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

Link 4

Here's a quote from one of those that is all the answer you need:

DOGS ARE PACK ANIMALS THAT THRIVE ON COMPANIONSHIP. Much like their wolf ancestors, dogs are very social. In fact, dogs are more social than humans and need to be part of human families. When you own a dog, you become the dog's pack and he wants to be with his pack. Forcing a dog to live outside with little or no human companionship is one of the most psychological damaging things a pet owner can do to a dog.
Once again, it is 100% selfish to a dog to keep it away from the family and not let it in the house to live.
I'm reading the attached articles. After reading the first article, here is a great response that I feel is similar to me.

My whole life I've had dogs that lived entirely outdoors. No, they weren't on chains or confined to a certain part of the yard--they were given the entire backyard which was fenced and, generally, inescapable. Sometimes they'd find a loose board, knock it down, and slip off to the nearby creek at night but they'd always be home in the morning, we'd patch up the hole, and life would go on. They weren't poisoned or hurt by wild animals or shot or any other horrible thing that you could dream up to happen. They had adventures five nights out of the year. End of story.

For shelter, we cut a dog-door into the garage which led to an eight-by-ten dog run complete with their own doghouses and stuffed knee-high with fresh straw. It kept them out of the wind and was much warmer than a doghouse alone would be.

My dogs never went insane from loneliness because we always kept at least two at a time. This provided them a pack and filled their canine need for constant companionship. To top it off, four kids would go in and out of the backyard to play all day long so they had their fill of human company, too.

They survived negative degree winters and 110+ summers. When I was young, we never bathed the dogs because they didn't look dirty, smelled fine except when rained on, and hated baths anyway. They got all the vet care they needed but the closest we ever came to 'professionally grooming' them was when we sent an especially long-haired spaniel to get her fur clipped at the start of spring each year to help keep her cool. Each lived to be at least thirteen years old--I've currently got one going on fifteen.

The only dog I'd ever recommend keeping in a house is one incapable of weathering the conditions--a thin furred breed like a greyhound or a very small dog starting from pug-size down. I also wouldn't force a cold-weather breed like a husky to stick it out through the midday heat during summer. There are exceptions like these, but for most dogs--medium fur, thirty pounds up, most run-of-the-mill mutts you'd find in your local shelter--I'd say living outside year-round would suit them fine.

I'll end by saying this--I'd like anyone to take a look at my two outdoor dogs who are healthy, happy, and just as good as any indoor pet and tell me that I'm a cruel, heartless monster who doesn't understand what they're going through and isn't fit to pay their vet bills, clean up their poo, and taken them on long, glorious walks that neither of us ever want to end.
So after all the links and articles, THAT is what you pulled from it to confirm that it's ok?

I give up. This thread really pisses me off.
Read the bolded line and then read the rest of the thread.

Then someone explain why the two dogs would be lonely if they have each other.

 
put in a doggie door

if they are as happy as you assume they will be outside, they'll never come in anyway

problem solved

 
This was not fishing.

I'm honestly in utter shock. I've never heard of any animal being REQUIRED to be kept indoors for it to be humane. Never.

I feel like I'm in an episode of Portlandia or something.
It's ok to be in shock. It's ok to realize you're completely wrong about something despite it being all you've ever known. Now just figure out what to do with that shock. Bury your head in the sand and continue screaming that you're right and everyone else is wrong or take this new information, do some research, talk to a vet, and do what's ####### right for these dogs.

 
And you're also wrong about dogs not being happy in apartments. Dog's are social animals and all they care about is making their family happy. They will adapt to whatever surrounding you put them in. Large dogs can do just fine in apartments as long you do your part and take them for daily walks to get exercise and other stimulation.
Then how is what I'm describing wrong?
Describe where they're going to get the love and affection that a pack animal requires for a healthy psyche?
Reading comprehension down??

We he lets them into the mudroom during snow storms.

 
And you're also wrong about dogs not being happy in apartments. Dog's are social animals and all they care about is making their family happy. They will adapt to whatever surrounding you put them in. Large dogs can do just fine in apartments as long you do your part and take them for daily walks to get exercise and other stimulation.
Then how is what I'm describing wrong?
Describe where they're going to get the love and affection that a pack animal requires for a healthy psyche?
Reading comprehension down??

We he lets them into the mudroom during snow storms.
I wonder if he'll at least leave them a towel to lay on?

 
Why do you suppose it is that shelters, rescue outfits, breeders, and vets are of the opinion that dogs shouldn't be left outside all the time?
Because (and reading all of the posted articles confirms this), it is assumed the dog will be alone, have little to no space and will be exposed to the elements.

I have addressed all 3 of those issues extensively. There will be two dogs. I have yet to see a single statement made from anyone outside that two dogs would end up feeling lonely, separation anxiety, etc. Every single article assumes a single dog. There also is a lot about pens, tied up and small yards/no shade. This yard has almost complete shade in the Summer due to being in a heavily wooded area. A more than adequate dog house will be made by my son and I and the mud room will likely have a doggie door for them to come and go as they please.

The dogs will not be lonely, they will not be bored, they will not be ignored, they will not be left to suffer from the elements. None of anything I have read (outside of this thread) indicates what I am doing will be cruel to the dogs.
are you gonna talk to a vet?

the dogs, both of them see your family as their pack

one of the articles specifically said being left outside when the pack is inside is seen as punishment

they will be lonely, they will have a pack and will not be permitted to be with that pack most of the time
If you're looking for an answer, then start looking. There is plenty available on the internet that will discuss how damaging and unhealthy it is for dogs to be kept outside 100% of the time. Or talk to a local shelter. Or talk to your vet.

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

Link 4

Here's a quote from one of those that is all the answer you need:

DOGS ARE PACK ANIMALS THAT THRIVE ON COMPANIONSHIP. Much like their wolf ancestors, dogs are very social. In fact, dogs are more social than humans and need to be part of human families. When you own a dog, you become the dog's pack and he wants to be with his pack. Forcing a dog to live outside with little or no human companionship is one of the most psychological damaging things a pet owner can do to a dog.
Once again, it is 100% selfish to a dog to keep it away from the family and not let it in the house to live.
I'm reading the attached articles. After reading the first article, here is a great response that I feel is similar to me.

My whole life I've had dogs that lived entirely outdoors. No, they weren't on chains or confined to a certain part of the yard--they were given the entire backyard which was fenced and, generally, inescapable. Sometimes they'd find a loose board, knock it down, and slip off to the nearby creek at night but they'd always be home in the morning, we'd patch up the hole, and life would go on. They weren't poisoned or hurt by wild animals or shot or any other horrible thing that you could dream up to happen. They had adventures five nights out of the year. End of story.

For shelter, we cut a dog-door into the garage which led to an eight-by-ten dog run complete with their own doghouses and stuffed knee-high with fresh straw. It kept them out of the wind and was much warmer than a doghouse alone would be.

My dogs never went insane from loneliness because we always kept at least two at a time. This provided them a pack and filled their canine need for constant companionship. To top it off, four kids would go in and out of the backyard to play all day long so they had their fill of human company, too.

They survived negative degree winters and 110+ summers. When I was young, we never bathed the dogs because they didn't look dirty, smelled fine except when rained on, and hated baths anyway. They got all the vet care they needed but the closest we ever came to 'professionally grooming' them was when we sent an especially long-haired spaniel to get her fur clipped at the start of spring each year to help keep her cool. Each lived to be at least thirteen years old--I've currently got one going on fifteen.

The only dog I'd ever recommend keeping in a house is one incapable of weathering the conditions--a thin furred breed like a greyhound or a very small dog starting from pug-size down. I also wouldn't force a cold-weather breed like a husky to stick it out through the midday heat during summer. There are exceptions like these, but for most dogs--medium fur, thirty pounds up, most run-of-the-mill mutts you'd find in your local shelter--I'd say living outside year-round would suit them fine.

I'll end by saying this--I'd like anyone to take a look at my two outdoor dogs who are healthy, happy, and just as good as any indoor pet and tell me that I'm a cruel, heartless monster who doesn't understand what they're going through and isn't fit to pay their vet bills, clean up their poo, and taken them on long, glorious walks that neither of us ever want to end.
So after all the links and articles, THAT is what you pulled from it to confirm that it's ok?

I give up. This thread really pisses me off.
Read the bolded line and then read the rest of the thread.

Then someone explain why the two dogs would be lonely if they have each other.
i just did

IF your family shows them the love you describe

you'll have two young pups who think you are their pack

and they'll be isolated from their pack the majority of the time, even though there are two of them

tell me your area code right now and i'll get you a list of vets to call, see what they say

you have people here who work with dogs telling you their organization would not let you adopt because the outdoor lviging

either everyone here is a loon, or you are off base

 
And you're also wrong about dogs not being happy in apartments. Dog's are social animals and all they care about is making their family happy. They will adapt to whatever surrounding you put them in. Large dogs can do just fine in apartments as long you do your part and take them for daily walks to get exercise and other stimulation.
Then how is what I'm describing wrong?
Describe where they're going to get the love and affection that a pack animal requires for a healthy psyche?
Two of them together at all times. Minimum of twice daily interaction with the family with morning and evening feeding and checking on water with high percentage of days spent playing for extended periods with the children, going on walks with me and my wife and mother-in-law, going to parks with the family, walking to the neighborhood lake, etc.

 
Why do you suppose it is that shelters, rescue outfits, breeders, and vets are of the opinion that dogs shouldn't be left outside all the time?
Because (and reading all of the posted articles confirms this), it is assumed the dog will be alone, have little to no space and will be exposed to the elements.

I have addressed all 3 of those issues extensively. There will be two dogs. I have yet to see a single statement made from anyone outside that two dogs would end up feeling lonely, separation anxiety, etc. Every single article assumes a single dog. There also is a lot about pens, tied up and small yards/no shade. This yard has almost complete shade in the Summer due to being in a heavily wooded area. A more than adequate dog house will be made by my son and I and the mud room will likely have a doggie door for them to come and go as they please.

The dogs will not be lonely, they will not be bored, they will not be ignored, they will not be left to suffer from the elements. None of anything I have read (outside of this thread) indicates what I am doing will be cruel to the dogs.
are you gonna talk to a vet?

the dogs, both of them see your family as their pack

one of the articles specifically said being left outside when the pack is inside is seen as punishment

they will be lonely, they will have a pack and will not be permitted to be with that pack most of the time
If you're looking for an answer, then start looking. There is plenty available on the internet that will discuss how damaging and unhealthy it is for dogs to be kept outside 100% of the time. Or talk to a local shelter. Or talk to your vet.

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

Link 4

Here's a quote from one of those that is all the answer you need:

DOGS ARE PACK ANIMALS THAT THRIVE ON COMPANIONSHIP. Much like their wolf ancestors, dogs are very social. In fact, dogs are more social than humans and need to be part of human families. When you own a dog, you become the dog's pack and he wants to be with his pack. Forcing a dog to live outside with little or no human companionship is one of the most psychological damaging things a pet owner can do to a dog.
Once again, it is 100% selfish to a dog to keep it away from the family and not let it in the house to live.
I'm reading the attached articles. After reading the first article, here is a great response that I feel is similar to me.

My whole life I've had dogs that lived entirely outdoors. No, they weren't on chains or confined to a certain part of the yard--they were given the entire backyard which was fenced and, generally, inescapable. Sometimes they'd find a loose board, knock it down, and slip off to the nearby creek at night but they'd always be home in the morning, we'd patch up the hole, and life would go on. They weren't poisoned or hurt by wild animals or shot or any other horrible thing that you could dream up to happen. They had adventures five nights out of the year. End of story.

For shelter, we cut a dog-door into the garage which led to an eight-by-ten dog run complete with their own doghouses and stuffed knee-high with fresh straw. It kept them out of the wind and was much warmer than a doghouse alone would be.

My dogs never went insane from loneliness because we always kept at least two at a time. This provided them a pack and filled their canine need for constant companionship. To top it off, four kids would go in and out of the backyard to play all day long so they had their fill of human company, too.

They survived negative degree winters and 110+ summers. When I was young, we never bathed the dogs because they didn't look dirty, smelled fine except when rained on, and hated baths anyway. They got all the vet care they needed but the closest we ever came to 'professionally grooming' them was when we sent an especially long-haired spaniel to get her fur clipped at the start of spring each year to help keep her cool. Each lived to be at least thirteen years old--I've currently got one going on fifteen.

The only dog I'd ever recommend keeping in a house is one incapable of weathering the conditions--a thin furred breed like a greyhound or a very small dog starting from pug-size down. I also wouldn't force a cold-weather breed like a husky to stick it out through the midday heat during summer. There are exceptions like these, but for most dogs--medium fur, thirty pounds up, most run-of-the-mill mutts you'd find in your local shelter--I'd say living outside year-round would suit them fine.

I'll end by saying this--I'd like anyone to take a look at my two outdoor dogs who are healthy, happy, and just as good as any indoor pet and tell me that I'm a cruel, heartless monster who doesn't understand what they're going through and isn't fit to pay their vet bills, clean up their poo, and taken them on long, glorious walks that neither of us ever want to end.
So after all the links and articles, THAT is what you pulled from it to confirm that it's ok?

I give up. This thread really pisses me off.
Read the bolded line and then read the rest of the thread.

Then someone explain why the two dogs would be lonely if they have each other.
As a somewhat serious answer.

As mentioned above already.

Dogs want to serve you. They live to love you. You presence is their love.

Every time you keep them away from you, you are punishing them.

 
You're so mind-boggling wrong about the fact that having 2 dogs vs. 1 makes it better. It doesn't. It makes it worse. You'll cause emotional suffering of 2 dogs instead of 1.

You keep asking for one reason why it's not ok (even though you've been provided with plenty). You've still yet to answer the one question asked to you. Why exactly are you getting dogs?

 
And you're also wrong about dogs not being happy in apartments. Dog's are social animals and all they care about is making their family happy. They will adapt to whatever surrounding you put them in. Large dogs can do just fine in apartments as long you do your part and take them for daily walks to get exercise and other stimulation.
Then how is what I'm describing wrong?
Describe where they're going to get the love and affection that a pack animal requires for a healthy psyche?
Two of them together at all times. Minimum of twice daily interaction with the family with morning and evening feeding and checking on water with high percentage of days spent playing for extended periods with the children, going on walks with me and my wife and mother-in-law, going to parks with the family, walking to the neighborhood lake, etc.
What if they don't get along? Good luck taking one back to the breeder for a refund.

 
this is like trying to convince someone that de-clawing cats is bad.

BUT IVE ALWAYS DECLAWED MY CATS!!!!!!!11111

incidentally, it was this forum that opened my eyes on that.

 
this is like trying to convince someone that de-clawing cats is bad.

BUT IVE ALWAYS DECLAWED MY CATS!!!!!!!11111

incidentally, it was this forum that opened my eyes on that.
Yea, when we got our cat I wanted it de-clawed being we had 2 small kids. My wife explained to me what they did for de-clawing.

sheesh.

Our cat has her claws

 
Why do you suppose it is that shelters, rescue outfits, breeders, and vets are of the opinion that dogs shouldn't be left outside all the time?
Because (and reading all of the posted articles confirms this), it is assumed the dog will be alone, have little to no space and will be exposed to the elements.

I have addressed all 3 of those issues extensively. There will be two dogs. I have yet to see a single statement made from anyone outside that two dogs would end up feeling lonely, separation anxiety, etc. Every single article assumes a single dog. There also is a lot about pens, tied up and small yards/no shade. This yard has almost complete shade in the Summer due to being in a heavily wooded area. A more than adequate dog house will be made by my son and I and the mud room will likely have a doggie door for them to come and go as they please.

The dogs will not be lonely, they will not be bored, they will not be ignored, they will not be left to suffer from the elements. None of anything I have read (outside of this thread) indicates what I am doing will be cruel to the dogs.
are you gonna talk to a vet?

the dogs, both of them see your family as their pack

one of the articles specifically said being left outside when the pack is inside is seen as punishment

they will be lonely, they will have a pack and will not be permitted to be with that pack most of the time
If you're looking for an answer, then start looking. There is plenty available on the internet that will discuss how damaging and unhealthy it is for dogs to be kept outside 100% of the time. Or talk to a local shelter. Or talk to your vet.

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

Link 4

Here's a quote from one of those that is all the answer you need:

DOGS ARE PACK ANIMALS THAT THRIVE ON COMPANIONSHIP. Much like their wolf ancestors, dogs are very social. In fact, dogs are more social than humans and need to be part of human families. When you own a dog, you become the dog's pack and he wants to be with his pack. Forcing a dog to live outside with little or no human companionship is one of the most psychological damaging things a pet owner can do to a dog.
Once again, it is 100% selfish to a dog to keep it away from the family and not let it in the house to live.
I'm reading the attached articles. After reading the first article, here is a great response that I feel is similar to me.

My whole life I've had dogs that lived entirely outdoors. No, they weren't on chains or confined to a certain part of the yard--they were given the entire backyard which was fenced and, generally, inescapable. Sometimes they'd find a loose board, knock it down, and slip off to the nearby creek at night but they'd always be home in the morning, we'd patch up the hole, and life would go on. They weren't poisoned or hurt by wild animals or shot or any other horrible thing that you could dream up to happen. They had adventures five nights out of the year. End of story.

For shelter, we cut a dog-door into the garage which led to an eight-by-ten dog run complete with their own doghouses and stuffed knee-high with fresh straw. It kept them out of the wind and was much warmer than a doghouse alone would be.

My dogs never went insane from loneliness because we always kept at least two at a time. This provided them a pack and filled their canine need for constant companionship. To top it off, four kids would go in and out of the backyard to play all day long so they had their fill of human company, too.

They survived negative degree winters and 110+ summers. When I was young, we never bathed the dogs because they didn't look dirty, smelled fine except when rained on, and hated baths anyway. They got all the vet care they needed but the closest we ever came to 'professionally grooming' them was when we sent an especially long-haired spaniel to get her fur clipped at the start of spring each year to help keep her cool. Each lived to be at least thirteen years old--I've currently got one going on fifteen.

The only dog I'd ever recommend keeping in a house is one incapable of weathering the conditions--a thin furred breed like a greyhound or a very small dog starting from pug-size down. I also wouldn't force a cold-weather breed like a husky to stick it out through the midday heat during summer. There are exceptions like these, but for most dogs--medium fur, thirty pounds up, most run-of-the-mill mutts you'd find in your local shelter--I'd say living outside year-round would suit them fine.

I'll end by saying this--I'd like anyone to take a look at my two outdoor dogs who are healthy, happy, and just as good as any indoor pet and tell me that I'm a cruel, heartless monster who doesn't understand what they're going through and isn't fit to pay their vet bills, clean up their poo, and taken them on long, glorious walks that neither of us ever want to end.
So after all the links and articles, THAT is what you pulled from it to confirm that it's ok?

I give up. This thread really pisses me off.
Read the bolded line and then read the rest of the thread.

Then someone explain why the two dogs would be lonely if they have each other.
As a somewhat serious answer.

As mentioned above already.

Dogs want to serve you. They live to love you. You presence is their love.

Every time you keep them away from you, you are punishing them.
Yup.. Exactly why when training a puppy to not bite too hard, you just walk away and turn your back to them when they get too rough.

 
So if I'm hearing you all correctly:

Two dogs left outside is at risk for a damaged psyche from being isolated from the rest of the pack family for a lot of the time and because of this I shouldn't have dogs unless I allow them inside and this is agreed upon by all animal professionals.

And yet somehow a dog alone in an apartment alone all day will adapt and be fine.

And this is all despite that until very recent history the vast majority of dogs have NEVER been kept indoors living with their human masters.

 
So if I'm hearing you all correctly:

Two dogs left outside is at risk for a damaged psyche from being isolated from the rest of the pack family for a lot of the time and because of this I shouldn't have dogs unless I allow them inside and this is agreed upon by all animal professionals.

And yet somehow a dog alone in an apartment alone all day will adapt and be fine.

And this is all despite that until very recent history the vast majority of dogs have NEVER been kept indoors living with their human masters.
Why do you keep saying this?

 
So if I'm hearing you all correctly:

Two dogs left outside is at risk for a damaged psyche from being isolated from the rest of the pack family for a lot of the time and because of this I shouldn't have dogs unless I allow them inside and this is agreed upon by all animal professionals.

And yet somehow a dog alone in an apartment alone all day will adapt and be fine.

And this is all despite that until very recent history the vast majority of dogs have NEVER been kept indoors living with their human masters.
It doesn't have to be one or the other. With most responsible dog owners, it's not.

Dogs need to be inside, over nights, during inclement weather, to bond with the family at a closer level, during fireworks (which frighten them), etc.

Dogs need to be outside, to exercise, during good weather, to run, to play, etc.

No one here who is trying to deter you from buying dogs keeps their dog indoors 24/7, yet that's the assumption you seem to be making.

 

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