New Jersey Parents To Sue School District Following 12-Year-Old Daughter’s Suicide (1 Viewer)

[parasaurolophus]

Yeah but it could also be perceived by the child that you are punishing them for getting bullied and that could have some negative impacts as well. It also might make them hesitant to bring up future issues like this in the future. 

As always in life you solve the immediate most dangerous threat. Then you work on the next. You don't let the wolf hang out in the yard with the sheep because you are afraid that taking the wolf away will open them up to coyote attacks.

ETA btw I agree with you that expectations need to be set from the get go so these things get prevented. I am simply discussing now how if you didnt do that and you are at danger point 

 

[NutterButter]

I think the easiest thing would be to inject the phone with a virus.  She can't use it if its broken.

 

[Ilov80s]

As always in life you solve the immediate most dangerous threat. Then you work on the next. You don't let the wolf hang out in the yard with the sheep because you are afraid that taking the wolf away will open them up to coyote attacks. 

Kids aren't sheep though. If you think your child is a serious threat to harm themselves, you take them to a hospital. What you should (as best you can) do is get in front of the problem long before they are thinking of harming themselves and when it can be managed. I am all for getting the kid off the phone or off certain apps, but as I have said before, it should be crafted so it appears to be a team decision and not an order/punishment. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

Kids aren't sheep though. If you think your child is a serious threat to harm themselves, you take them to a hospital. What you should (as best you can) do is get in front of the problem long before they are thinking of harming themselves and when it can be managed. I am all for getting the kid off the phone or off certain apps, but as I have said before, it should be crafted so it appears to be a team decision and not an order/punishment. 

I guess I dont really understand your position (regarding this family at least). It got to a point where the social media stuff was making her ill and her grades had cratered and she was miserable.

So regardless of how it should have been handled to that point, do you really advocate not severing the link the moment you are aware that the misery is being caused because of texts and instagram. You have now read them, seen them, learned 100% that is the source. Do you really not instantly start having all of the accounts disabled and get her a new phone number? I am not saying you kill that link and then wipe your forehead and say phewww that was a close one. Fixed that problem!

 

[jonessed]

I actually get that excuse for things all the time. Talk with parent about how their kid isn't doing their work for class. has missing assignments, etc. Parent will say, "Ok. I am taking away their video games and going to make them spend two hours after school each day working on their school work." A couple weeks go by and the kid still hasn't turned anything it. I call and ask the parent what happened to the plan, "Oh yeah, that's right. I just have been so busy with (some story I don't care about). I am going to get right on their butt starting today." Nothing changes and I just stop bothering to speak to the parent because it's clearly a waste of my time. This is a very normal occurrence. 

Two working parents can lead to being overwhelmed or emotionally unavailable.  It happens.  Balancing finances and child involvement can be difficult.

Once a situation is recognized though it's up to the parent(s) to act or coordinate with the school, teachers, coaches, etc. to create a holistic solution.  No one else really can.

I imagine it's hard for a responsible teacher.  It's the kids whose parents aren't involved that need the most help, but without parental involvement it's difficult to get traction.

 

[RUSF18]

I guess I dont really understand your position (regarding this family at least). It got to a point where the social media stuff was making her ill and her grades had cratered and she was miserable.

So regardless of how it should have been handled to that point, do you really advocate not severing the link the moment you are aware that the misery is being caused because of texts and instagram. You have now read them, seen them, learned 100% that is the source. Do you really not instantly start having all of the accounts disabled and get her a new phone number? I am not saying you kill that link and then wipe your forehead and say phewww that was a close one. Fixed that problem!

Again, if it was as simple as that, sure. But what happens the next day in school when that kid is watching 3 girls pointing and laughing at her while also looking at some collage of her that they made on the phone the night before?

 

[jonessed]

I guess I dont really understand your position (regarding this family at least). It got to a point where the social media stuff was making her ill and her grades had cratered and she was miserable.

So regardless of how it should have been handled to that point, do you really advocate not severing the link the moment you are aware that the misery is being caused because of texts and instagram. You have now read them, seen them, learned 100% that is the source. Do you really not instantly start having all of the accounts disabled and get her a new phone number? I am not saying you kill that link and then wipe your forehead and say phewww that was a close one. Fixed that problem!

At that point you have to.  Ideally, it would be recognized earlier and the parents could work with their child on ways of handling it.  

The bullying, social awkwardness, cliques, depression, hormonal changes, etc. of the teen and pre-teen years will not go away by cutting off social media.  Parents need to be involved and teach their kids coping skills regardless of whether they have access to social media.

I've found the social media angst/issues encountered by my daughter to be good teaching opportunities.  Opportunities that I may not have been aware of otherwise.

Every kid is different though.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Again, if it was as simple as that, sure. But what happens the next day in school when that kid is watching 3 girls pointing and laughing at her while also looking at some collage of her that they made on the phone the night before?

So bullying her at school then? So do you think schools would maybe be more likely to intervene if the bullying is happening at school instead of away from school? Do you think kids are just as likely to bully face to face rather than with a huge buffer like the internet? 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Whats better? A 12 year old that is upset because they cant be on snapchat and instagram or a 12 year old that killed herself? The parents only have direct control over their daughters access. They can't stop an onslaught of crappy preteens on the internet from the other side. So while it is great to talk about how it isn't fair to "punish" the victim, it isn't fair to let them get tormented when an immediate actionable step is staring you in the face. 

Most sites dont have a Joe Bryant to keep it nice.  

The fact that you think this is about having a whiny kid who wants her phone back is astounding to me.  Creating an atmosphere where a victim feels responsible for the actions being perpetrated against them is incredibly damaging to even an adult psyche, much less that of a 12 year old.  Signaling to the kid that the bullying was her fault by "punishing" her for it (again, that's how a 12 year old would see it) could just as likely have been the straw that pushed her over the top to suicide.  There are countless studies on this and it is most commonly seen in things like sexual assault, but the idea is the same.

As Ilov80s pointed out, in addition to this it could also lead to the person not wanting to report even worse things going forward for fear of being "punished" for it.

 

[parasaurolophus]

The fact that you think this is about having a whiny kid who wants her phone back is astounding to me.  Creating an atmosphere where a victim feels responsible for the actions being perpetrated against them is incredibly damaging to even an adult psyche, much less that of a 12 year old.  Signaling to the kid that the bullying was her fault by "punishing" her for it (again, that's how a 12 year old would see it) could just as likely have been the straw that pushed her over the top to suicide.  There are countless studies on this and it is most commonly seen in things like sexual assault, but the idea is the same.

As Ilov80s pointed out, in addition to this it could also lead to the person not wanting to report even worse things going forward for fear of being "punished" for it.

This is kind of funny. It is like you havent read anything and made a wild guess.

The argument that they shouldn't have severed the link because that could have made her kill herself is freaking dumb. SHE KILLED HERSELF! Do you not realize how stupid that sounds???? If they would have taken her instagram away, that could have made her suicidal. It is stupid to begin with, but it is really stupid in this scenario. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Two working parents can lead to being overwhelmed or emotionally unavailable.  It happens.  Balancing finances and child involvement can be difficult.

Once a situation is recognized though it's up to the parent(s) to act or coordinate with the school, teachers, coaches, etc. to create a holistic solution.  No one else really can.

I imagine it's hard for a responsible teacher.  It's the kids whose parents aren't involved that need the most help, but without parental involvement it's difficult to get traction.

Yes and I just focus my efforts on working with the kid at that point. Many kids are honest and will you that their parents are irresponsible and uninvolved.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

This is kind of funny. It is like you havent read anything and made a wild guess.

The argument that they shouldn't have severed the link because that could have made her kill herself is freaking dumb. SHE KILLED HERSELF! Do you not realize how stupid that sounds???? If they would have taken her instagram away, that could have made her suicidal. It is stupid to begin with, but it is really stupid in this scenario. 

You're being ridiculous.

Obviously they had no idea what the outcome would be at the time.  Letting her keep the phone or taking the phone away, both could have led to her killing herself.  Realistically, either one was a low likelihood that was going to be the result, but the entire psychology field is unanimous that making a victim feel like it is their fault is horribly damaging to the victim both short-term and long-term.

But sure, if they could go into the future and see exactly what would happen then I guess trying anything different would be the better play.  The same way that if a football team could go into the future and see that a game winning 35 yard field goal with 1 second left was going to be no good they may as well try throwing a hail marry instead.  Sadly, as of yet no one has time travel into the future quite nailed down.

Regardless, the point is that "just take the phone away, dummies" wasn't the simple solution some are making it out to be.  It was probably just as likely to do more harm as it was to help.

 

[whiskey7]

You're being ridiculous.

Obviously they had no idea what the outcome would be at the time.  Letting her keep the phone or taking the phone away, both could have led to her killing herself.  Realistically, either one was a low likelihood that was going to be the result, but the entire psychology field is unanimous that making a victim feel like it is their fault is horribly damaging to the victim both short-term and long-term.

But sure, if they could go into the future and see exactly what would happen then I guess trying anything different would be the better play.  The same way that if a football team could go into the future and see that a game winning 35 yard field goal with 1 second left was going to be no good they may as well try throwing a hail marry instead.  Sadly, as of yet no one has time travel into the future quite nailed down.

Regardless, the point is that "just take the phone away, dummies" wasn't the simple solution some are making it out to be.  It was probably just as likely to do more harm as it was to help.

If true, that really says something about how much fail occurred long before the bullying started.

 

[James Daulton]

Using a phone is like when Atari came out.

There is no value in it but ####### it kids love it

Wat?  Atari was fantastic!  I can't even begin to calculate the hours I put on my machine. 

I wish there was an unlike button so bad...

 

[Kraft...]

Sorry if this is a hijack but what is proper age to give them phones?   My oldest is 12 and there's no freaking way I'm getting him a phone right now.  He's way too curious, very social, but also very naive.

We get our kids phones when they reach middle school(6th grade). Our policy is crappy flip/slide phone from grades 6-8 then smart phone in HS. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

According to New Jersey law even bullying that happened off school property is to be acted upon (although it does have some odd wording about disrupting school activities and violating rights). The parent or student making the complaint is required to fill out a form and then the form has clearly defined procedural steps. An investigation is required and then it is to be reported to the state.