New Jersey Parents To Sue School District Following 12-Year-Old Daughter’s Suicide (1 Viewer)

[El Floppo]

It's just a weird dynamic.  For some odd reason, you crave the approval of the person/people doing it.

Definitely. Could also be she really likes playing the sport and doesn't want to stop

 

[shifty]

Good parenting, IMO.

Thanks I appreciate it. 

 

[belljr]

My oldest is 10 and going into 5th grade... all of this scares the #### out of me. 

His school appears to be fairly proactive about this stuff, but they're still on the young side. and my kid doesn't have a phone or any social media accounts yet.

One thing that's concerning me about the comments in here... I get wanting to protect the kid, but taking away their phone or social media apps? Pulling them from a team? My kid's not there yet, so I admit to being naive about this, but intuitively it seems like punishing your kid for being bullied. 

After going to the school (and yeah, I don't have faith in most parents to see the bigger picture and accept that their kid is in the wrong) if there's no action, is there a way of publicizing the terrible behavior of the bullies? Bring it to light to shame the them and make people aware of what ####s these kids and parents are and in case they're going after somebody else too? Or is it more likely, in these days especially, these are people without shame and might take pride in it.

Daughter will be 12 in September and just got a phone.... no accounts yet but its coming

 

[jonessed]

Seems like the parents are trying to scapegoat the school to assuage their guilt.  If anybody is to blame it's them.

 

[gianmarco]

My son is 12. He won't be getting a phone until he drives even though 90% of his classmates have one. There was already an issue last year of inappropriate messages being sent that teachers brought to light to all the parents in his grade. 

 

[gianmarco]

Seems like the parents are trying to scapegoat the school to assuage their guilt.  If anybody is to blame it's them.

Without falling off that horse of yours, care to unpack this? 

The primary blame is the bullies. The parents of the victim as well as of the bullies are also to blame. And, if the school was notified repeatedly and did nothing as the article suggests, then they are also to blame. 

But in no scenario are the parents of the victim the primary blame holders.

 

[jonessed]

Without falling off that horse of yours, care to unpack this? 

The primary blame is the bullies. The parents of the victim as well as of the bullies are also to blame. And, if the school was notified repeatedly and did nothing as the article suggests, then they are also to blame. 

But in no scenario are the parents of the victim the primary blame holders.

I don't own a horse.

I believe the parents were in a significantly better position than the school to take steps to protect their daughter from cyber bullying.  The school has limited control over the online activities of their students outside of school hours.

 

[belljr]

My son is 12. He won't be getting a phone until he drives even though 90% of his classmates have one. There was already an issue last year of inappropriate messages being sent that teachers brought to light to all the parents in his grade. 

We were of this mind set.   Next year 7th grade has no after care and she will be bussed and may or may not make the hockey team and softball team.

We felt it would be much more convenient to get one

 

[El Floppo]

I don't own a horse.

I believe the parents were in a significantly better position than the school to take steps to protect their daughter from cyber bullying.  The school has limited control over the online activities of their students outside of school hours.

Do you have kids?

 

[jonessed]

Do you have kids?

Yes.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Sorry if this is a hijack but what is proper age to give them phones?   My oldest is 12 and there's no freaking way I'm getting him a phone right now.  He's way too curious, very social, but also very naive.

 

[jonessed]

Sorry if this is a hijack but what is proper age to give them phones?   My oldest is 12 and there's no freaking way I'm getting him a phone right now.  He's way too curious, very social, but also very naive.

It completely depends on their maturity and the family dynamics around communication.

 

[Ilov80s]

Also really sorry to hear about what your daughter is going through @ChopMeat. My girl is only 6 months old and yet it still hit close to home. Those kids and the coach are awful. 

Does your daughter have anything approaching a relationship with even one of the girls on that team? I bet that in a group that large, there is at least one kind, sweet girl who knows right from wrong and doesn't really want to engage in the bullying/ostracizing and is kind of going along with the pack because she doesn't want to be the outsider (like your daughter, unfortunately). Maybe invite the girl and her parents over for a BBQ, ask the parents if you can pick the kids up from practice and take them for dinner/ice cream, etc and maybe that would help build something and allow your daughter to feel just a bit included, and maybe that transfers into bringing her more into the larger group.

Just a thought based on stuff I've read in the past. Good luck. 

Definitely the way to approach these problems is 1 on 1 and not in groups. Kids (and adults for that matter) will behave much different 1 on 1, face to face. If you can "repair" or "normalize" relations with a couple kids 1 on 1, it make alleviate the situation. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Without falling off that horse of yours, care to unpack this? 

The primary blame is the bullies. The parents of the victim as well as of the bullies are also to blame. And, if the school was notified repeatedly and did nothing as the article suggests, then they are also to blame. 

But in no scenario are the parents of the victim the primary blame holders.

This is the part I have some trouble with. The school administrators and staff are not participating in the bullying.  What power do they have that they are not pursuing, what duty did they have at which they failed?  Are we saying that a school has a duty to restrict, guide, and direct in a proper manner the behavior of each of its students during non-school hours?

I can maybe see a duty on them to  notify the parents, and the police if they become aware of a bullying situation, but it seems a stretch, to me at least, to think they have much more of an obligation.  Yes they may be In loco parentis to the students while in school or on school grounds, but they are not the parents.  They cannot parent, they cannot control the behavior of kids.  It seems some expect more from the schools than from the participating children and their parents. (Not you necessarily Gianmarco, your post just put me in mind of a theme from the entire thread.)

 

[NutterButter]

My 10 year has an ipod touch.  She'll probably get a phone at 13.   

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

It completely depends on their maturity and the family dynamics around communication.

What does that even mean?  Almost every teenage is immature and certainly preteen is.  How can they not be they are still growing up?

Maybe a better question is what does a 12 year old need a phone for beyond safety reasons to communicate with their family?  They damn sure don't need it for social media at 12.  But what age do they "need" it to be popular?

 

[NutterButter]

What does that even mean?  Almost every teenage is immature and certainly preteen is.  How can they not be they are still growing up?

Maybe a better question is what does a 12 year old need a phone for beyond safety reasons to communicate with their family?  They damn sure don't need it for social media at 12.  But what age do they "need" it to be popular?

Its mainly for entertainment.   Instead of watching tv, my daughter likes to be on her ipod instagramming and using this app called lively to livestream stuff she's doing to her friends.   

 

[belljr]

Sorry if this is a hijack but what is proper age to give them phones?   My oldest is 12 and there's no freaking way I'm getting him a phone right now.  He's way too curious, very social, but also very naive.

we said 12 to 13.

Look at it this way - my daughter was the last one on her team to get a phone - she will be 12 in September.  

I have Google Family Link installed on her phone and mine.   SHe does not have facebook or instagram.  And if she installs it - I'll know.

She uses it mostly to text her friends.    

We got it as I said earlier, once practices at school are over she won't have to go find a phone in school to contact us if she gets done early/canceled/etc

 

[Ilov80s]

This is the part I have some trouble with. The school administrators and staff are not participating in the bullying.  What power do they have that they are not pursuing, what duty did they have at which they failed?  Are we saying that a school has a duty to restrict guide, and direct in a proper manner the behavior of each of its students during non-school hours?

I can maybe see a duty them to  notify the parents, and the police if they become aware of a bullying situation, but it seems a stretch, to me at least, to think they have much more of an obligation.  Yes they may be In loco parentis to the students while in school or on school grounds, but they are not the parents.  They cannot parent, they cannot control the behavior of kids.  It seems some expect more from the schools than from the participating children and their parents. (Not you necessarily Gianmarco, your post just put me in mind of a theme from the entire thread.)

If the parents presented screenshots of the bullying on social media, it would have been a pretty stupid of the school not to have had conversations with the parents and kids involved. Also, we get parents complaining that their kids are being picked on in school and it's often more difficult than you one might think to monitor. Kids will complain that so and so has been looking at them in class. I can move seats, make sure kids don't work together in groups, etc. However, it's pretty close to impossible to teach and monitor where 36 kids are looking every moment of class. In the hallways, the teachers stand outside and monitor. We have cameras and security, but there are 900 kids roaming around so it's loud and crowded and there just is no way to prevent all bullying.

The biggest thing a school can do is promote a positive environment. We have anti-bullying posters, lessons, videos, etc. The staff try to model positive interactions, we respond to issues kids and parents present quickly and seriously, etc. 

 

[gianmarco]

This is the part I have some trouble with. The school administrators and staff are not participating in the bullying.  What power do they have that they are not pursuing, what duty did they have at which they failed?  Are we saying that a school has a duty to restrict guide, and direct in a proper manner the behavior of each of its students during non-school hours?

I can maybe see a duty them to  notify the parents, and the police if they become aware of a bullying situation, but it seems a stretch, to me at least, to think they have much more of an obligation.  Yes they may be In loco parentis to the students while in school or on school grounds, but they are not the parents.  They cannot parent, they cannot control the behavior of kids.  It seems some expect more from the schools than from the participating children and their parents. (Not you necessarily Gianmarco, your post just put me in mind of a theme from the entire thread.)

Here's my take on it, obviously from a non-legal viewpoint that I can't address like many of you can.

These students spend the majority of their waking hours in school. They are brought together and know each other because of school. As such, the school plays an integral part in their lives. Just as schools expect parents to be actively involved in their child's education, parents should expect that schools are actively involved in the well being of their students. 

So if students of a school are bullying another student in their school and it is brought to their attention, then I think it's imperative that a school administrator with authority speak to all parties and explain that it is inappropriate.

Back in the day, students would wait to fight until after school and off school property. But if that happened, you could still get in trouble with our school. I don't believe that once the school bell rings, that schools can completely wash their hands of the goings on of their students. 

It's one thing if everything happened after hours and they had no idea. But my guess is that if this had been going on for months as reported, then there had to be something going on at school too. 

Just my thoughts as a parent. If my son was doing something to another kid, even if after school, and I somehow didn't know and the school had heard, I'd be pissed if they didn't notify me of his actions.

 

[Ilov80s]

What does that even mean?  Almost every teenage is immature and certainly preteen is.  How can they not be they are still growing up?

Maybe a better question is what does a 12 year old need a phone for beyond safety reasons to communicate with their family?  They damn sure don't need it for social media at 12.  But what age do they "need" it to be popular?

There is an extremely wide range of maturity levels for teens and preteens. I have 13 year old students that I would trust more than some 18 year old students. 

 

[jonessed]

What does that even mean?  Almost every teenage is immature and certainly preteen is.  How can they not be they are still growing up?

Maybe a better question is what does a 12 year old need a phone for beyond safety reasons to communicate with their family?  They damn sure don't need it for social media at 12.  But what age do they "need" it to be popular?

Many adults are immature.  

You are in the best position to judge your son's maturity level and ability to responsibly have a phone.  If you don't think he's ready then he's probably not ready.

My daughter has had a phone since she started  middle school because we live a few blocks from the school and after school she has several options.  Sometimes she works on projects after school, sometimes she has practice, she can walk to the public library nearby, she sometimes walks to a neighbors to babysit, etc.  Plans change and circumstances change so this gives her the freedom to make choices and us the ability to keep track of her during this time and help her/remind her if needed.

 

[Ilov80s]

Many adults are immature.  

You are in the best position to judge your son's maturity level and ability to responsibly have a phone.  If you don't think he's ready then he's probably not ready.

My daughter has had a phone since she started  middle school because we live a few blocks from the school and after school she has several options.  Sometimes she works on projects after school, sometimes she has practice, she can walk to the public library nearby, she sometimes walks to a neighbors to babysit, etc.  Plans change and circumstances change so this gives her the freedom to make choices and us the ability to keep track of her during this time and help her/remind her if needed.

Seriously. Many of our students are more mature and responsible than some of the teachers IMO. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

Without falling off that horse of yours, care to unpack this? 

The primary blame is the bullies. The parents of the victim as well as of the bullies are also to blame. And, if the school was notified repeatedly and did nothing as the article suggests, then they are also to blame. 

But in no scenario are the parents of the victim the primary blame holders.

I disagree. On the surface it sounds like these parents basically did nothing but ask the school to do something.

Mallory’s grades deteriorated. At home, she complained of constant headaches and stomach pain. She begged to stay home from school.

This went on for what 9 months? I mean jesus, their daughter killed herself and she gave off some pretty tell tale signs that her life was spiraling downward. 

The mother said she believes the girls directed their taunts at Mallory out of resentment. “She was popular within her own circle,” Grossman said. She was an athlete, a “quiet child” and a “good student,” Grossman said.

“I think that she kind of represented what they couldn’t be, Grossman said.

I think that this mother had zero real clue what was going on in her daughter's life and was in denial about the severity of it all. If she was truly popular in her own circle, disconnect her from the internet. Her real friends aren't going to disown her because she doesn't have instagram. 

Their daughter kills herself and they decide to sue the school district? I simply cant understand that mentality. If my daughter was to the point that her grades suffered, she begged me to stay home from school, and was giving off the signs this girl was, I would be doing a lot more than asking the school for help. They wouldn't be involved until we had gone down a very long checklist of other things and more than likely by the point I got them involved they would actually be able to do something because it would have had to cross from cyber-bullying into simply bullying. 

No way you can taunt my daughter on instagram, etc during school hours if she cant see it. They would have to actually be showing her their phones or printing things which would now mean the school can get involved in a completely different manner. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

We were of this mind set.   Next year 7th grade has no after care and she will be bussed and may or may not make the hockey team and softball team.

We felt it would be much more convenient to get one

So get a flip phone that can only make phone calls. Prior to my exwife being a moron and deciding for his birthday she would be the cool parent and buy him an iphone that is what my son had. 

 

[rockaction]

So get a flip phone that can only make phone calls. 

That was my immediate thought once the issue arose in this thread.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Here's my take on it, obviously from a non-legal viewpoint that I can't address like many of you can.

These students spend the majority of their waking hours in school. They are brought together and know each other because of school. As such, the school plays an integral part in their lives. Just as schools expect parents to be actively involved in their child's education, parents should expect that schools are actively involved in the well being of their students. 

So if students of a school are bullying another student in their school and it is brought to their attention, then I think it's imperative that a school administrator with authority speak to all parties and explain that it is inappropriate.

Back in the day, students would wait to fight until after school and off school property. But if that happened, you could still get in trouble with our school. I don't believe that once the school bell rings, that schools can completely wash their hands of the goings on of their students. 

It's one thing if everything happened after hours and they had no idea. But my guess is that if this had been going on for months as reported, then there had to be something going on at school too. 

Just my thoughts as a parent. If my son was doing something to another kid, even if after school, and I somehow didn't know and the school had heard, I'd be pissed if they didn't notify me of his actions.

I agree that if the school becomes aware of an issue with their students that they may have an obligation to share that information with the parents and with authorities.  I just have questions whether the school is an authority with legal right to act beyond notification of the parents and authorities and offering their Good Offices as a point of potential mediation.

I am sympathetic to the argument that when the State demands we school our children, and under compunction of the law forces us to bring our children together that there are obligations then on the State to protect those children, but I am not clear that the school is the proper instrument of the State to bear liability.  I also have questions as to whether the school district in the state in question is entitled to the protections of governmental immunity.

I am very sympathetic to parents of kids who are being bullied.  The problem is hardly new, if the expression and manner of it is now different.  This has been a generations old problem with no easy solutions.  More often than not it is endured rather than corrected.  Frequently we find folks with an impulse to address it by taking the law into their own hands since the state so often refuses to adequately address the problem.

My best wishes to the parents of children suffering, and I do mean suffering through this.

 

[belljr]

So get a flip phone that can only make phone calls. Prior to my exwife being a moron and deciding for his birthday she would be the cool parent and buy him an iphone that is what my son had. 

I'm ok with it, now.

 

[parasaurolophus]

My oldest is 10 and going into 5th grade... all of this scares the #### out of me. 

His school appears to be fairly proactive about this stuff, but they're still on the young side. and my kid doesn't have a phone or any social media accounts yet.

One thing that's concerning me about the comments in here... I get wanting to protect the kid, but taking away their phone or social media apps? Pulling them from a team? My kid's not there yet, so I admit to being naive about this, but intuitively it seems like punishing your kid for being bullied. 

After going to the school (and yeah, I don't have faith in most parents to see the bigger picture and accept that their kid is in the wrong) if there's no action, is there a way of publicizing the terrible behavior of the bullies? Bring it to light to shame the them and make people aware of what ####s these kids and parents are and in case they're going after somebody else too? Or is it more likely, in these days especially, these are people without shame and might take pride in it.

Why does this have to be punishment? Well the pulling them from a team I agree with you, but the apps and social media I think are crap anyway. I hate that my son has an iphone. HATE IT. I see zero value in any of it. When he walks in the door at my house that thing goes in a glass jar. He is only allowed to access the internet on my devices so I know what he is doing. The problem is he is only here half the time. My exwife doesn't care about this stuff like I do. She lets him play video games and use whatever apps he wants. She tries to play that angle for brownie points.

 

[Ilov80s]

I disagree. On the surface it sounds like these parents basically did nothing but ask the school to do something.

This went on for what 9 months? I mean jesus, their daughter killed herself and she gave off some pretty tell tale signs that her life was spiraling downward. 

I think that this mother had zero real clue what was going on in her daughter's life and was in denial about the severity of it all. If she was truly popular in her own circle, disconnect her from the internet. Her real friends aren't going to disown her because she doesn't have instagram. 

Their daughter kills herself and they decide to sue the school district? I simply cant understand that mentality. If my daughter was to the point that her grades suffered, she begged me to stay home from school, and was giving off the signs this girl was, I would be doing a lot more than asking the school for help. They wouldn't be involved until we had gone down a very long checklist of other things and more than likely by the point I got them involved they would actually be able to do something because it would have had to cross from cyber-bullying into simply bullying. 

No way you can taunt my daughter on instagram, etc during school hours if she cant see it. They would have to actually be showing her their phones or printing things which would now mean the school can get involved in a completely different manner. 

I think getting the school involved ASAP is a smart decision. However, it shouldn't be the only thing you do- especially if the situation isn't improving. Ofcourse we are speculating because we know so very little of what happened here. 

 

[belljr]

Why does this have to be punishment? Well the pulling them from a team I agree with you, but the apps and social media I think are crap anyway. I hate that my son has an iphone. HATE IT. I see zero value in any of it. When he walks in the door at my house that thing goes in a glass jar. He is only allowed to access the internet on my devices so I know what he is doing. The problem is he is only here half the time. My exwife doesn't care about this stuff like I do. She lets him play video games and use whatever apps he wants. She tries to play that angle for brownie points.

not to sidetrack.  But you can lock them up pretty good and or take the phone and check it.

However, I am not fighting the EX battle....

 

[Ilov80s]

Why does this have to be punishment? Well the pulling them from a team I agree with you, but the apps and social media I think are crap anyway. I hate that my son has an iphone. HATE IT. I see zero value in any of it. When he walks in the door at my house that thing goes in a glass jar. He is only allowed to access the internet on my devices so I know what he is doing. The problem is he is only here half the time. My exwife doesn't care about this stuff like I do. She lets him play video games and use whatever apps he wants. She tries to play that angle for brownie points.

I agree that kids get too dependent on their phones and it's good to spend more time personally interacting, exercising, learning how to do things with their hands, reading books, etc. However, they are also learning valuable tech skills. It's very apparent in high school which kids are fluent with technology and which aren't. The kids that aren't are at a significant disadvantage in class. Remember that people used to say the same thing about reading books. 

 

[Ilov80s]

It is important IMO for parents and kids to use their phones together starting at a young age and continue as the child ages. Start with simple games, youtube and progress to snapchat, IG, etc. Kids need to be taught how to use their phones, apps, computers, etc. When we just hand over the devices, they don't know the rules and they don't often know the real positives. Like any other powerful tool, people need training on it. I have tried to convince our high school to make a mandatory Computer/Internet/Social Media class for all 9th graders. There we can teach everything from the whats fake news to basics of a spreadsheet to referencing online sources to etiquette on twitter, sexting laws, etc. 

 

[belljr]

My daughter went from watching YouTube on her tablet to phone ....I say isn't the tablet bigger?

She just shrugs

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I think I'm with Floppo on this one.  The answer is not as simple as just taking away the kid's phone or blocking the apps.  The kid sees that as a punishment and in some ways that could just screw them up more, making them feel at fault for getting bullied.

Now the parents of the bullies taking away their phone?  That should have happened.  But punishing a victim for being a victim only makes it worse, and a kid getting their phone taken away will certainly see that as a punishment whether that's how you intended it or not.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I agree that kids get too dependent on their phones and it's good to spend more time personally interacting, exercising, learning how to do things with their hands, reading books, etc. However, they are also learning valuable tech skills. It's very apparent in high school which kids are fluent with technology and which aren't. The kids that aren't are at a significant disadvantage in class. Remember that people used to say the same thing about reading books. 

I dont think phones really teach valuable tech skills. Most of that stuff is streamlined. Learn more valuable skills on a computer and hooking hardware up to it. What is more valuable way to learn loading a silly video onto youtube? Through a phone or a video camera and computer? 

I told my son the only videos he can upload here are how to videos and that he had to use my video camera (its fairly decent) and do it via computer. 

 

[Ilov80s]

I think I'm with Floppo on this one.  The answer is not as simple as just taking away the kid's phone or blocking the apps.  The kid sees that as a punishment and in some ways that could just screw them up more, making them feel at fault for getting bullied.

Now the parents of the bullies taking away their phone?  That should have happened.  But punishing a victim for being a victim only makes it worse, and a kid getting their phone taken away will certainly see that as a punishment whether that's how you intended it or not.

Completely agree. If you do want to take the phone from the victim, you have to be able to successfully sell it as taking a break from the internet/social media. A long with the break, do something with your kid to bond- go to a water park, museum, hiking, etc. It can be a lesson in taking a break when something frustrates you, finding other ways to engage with the world, etc. I just think you want to avoid just taking it away. 

 

[ren hoek]

This is such a shame.  I notice discussion of the parents, kids and teachers but no one really talking about the system.  I don't like the circumstances that make a tragedy like this possible.  

It seems public school is the only stage of life in which unassuming, innocent and otherwise scholarly kids are forced to associate with their tormenters in this way.  In adult life, when someone's behaving as repulsively as the girls that were gaslighting her, you are free to walk away.  It's such an unforgiving culture for the fringes and socially withdrawn types.  I definitely think the bullying/ostracization dynamic scales up with the size of the classroom.  Somehow it encourages conformity over individuality and openness.  It's unfortunate there wasn't a practical way to place students like her with more like-minded and respectful people. 

 

[Ilov80s]

I dont think phones really teach valuable tech skills. Most of that stuff is streamlined. Learn more valuable skills on a computer and hooking hardware up to it. What is more valuable way to learn loading a silly video onto youtube? Through a phone or a video camera and computer? 

I told my son the only videos he can upload here are how to videos and that he had to use my video camera (its fairly decent) and do it via computer. 

I think there is value to both. One of the best films at Sundance a couple years ago was shot entirely on an i-phone. Anyone interested in careers in marketing and advertising need to be very fluent with social media which is very much phone based. 

 

[Ilov80s]

The other interesting note here is that the other stories I saw about her death said the mom reported the bullying to the school the day she took her life. Maybe she reported it before then, but the original stories don't indicate that.

 

[eoMMan]

A few, random thoughts....

1. Bullies feed off of seeing their victims hurt. If a bully is bullying two people where one is very upset over the tormenting and the other is like "whatevs....i don't give a f"...the bully will be more inclined to keep bullying the upset victim.

2. Kids, at some point in their lives, need to take a stand. Now, I'm not suggesting a physical attack but if a kid is constantly getting picked on verbally, it would serve him/her very well if they had some comebacks against the bully.

3. Teachers are underpaid. Teachers main responsibility is the education of children. Although I agree that teachers and school administration should take immediate action if reports of bullying are reported, at the same time, they aren't babysitters. They still need to focus on teaching and not squashing every little beef between students everyday.

4. Parents should be much more involved in their kid's lives and what they do on social media.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I think there is value to both. One of the best films at Sundance a couple years ago was shot entirely on an i-phone. Anyone interested in careers in marketing and advertising need to be very fluent with social media which is very much phone based. 

Very minimal value to what is learned by use of the phone. It isn't difficult. Their very nature makes them dumbed down. Smaller menus, limited access, etc etc.  It's probably why tablets are loved by senior citizens. Bigger screen, easier functionality.  

"I really wanted to work in marketing but I just can't seem to use the twitter app on my phone," said nobody ever. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Very minimal value to what is learned by use of the phone. It isn't difficult. Their very nature makes them dumbed down. Smaller menus, limited access, etc etc.  It's probably why tablets are loved by senior citizens. Bigger screen, easier functionality.  

"I really wanted to work in marketing but I just can't seem to use the twitter app on my phone," said nobody ever. 

They are kids so sometimes the simplified, more limited place is a good way to start. Also, I don't mean actually using Twitter physically (although I know plenty of adults that can't figure it out). There is a big difference between using Twitter to check the news and see who's injured for fantasy football and using Twitter as a marketing tool for a brand. 

 

[belljr]

Using a phone is like when Atari came out.

There is no value in it but ####### it kids love it

 

[parasaurolophus]

I think I'm with Floppo on this one.  The answer is not as simple as just taking away the kid's phone or blocking the apps.  The kid sees that as a punishment and in some ways that could just screw them up more, making them feel at fault for getting bullied.

Now the parents of the bullies taking away their phone?  That should have happened.  But punishing a victim for being a victim only makes it worse, and a kid getting their phone taken away will certainly see that as a punishment whether that's how you intended it or not.

Whats better? A 12 year old that is upset because they cant be on snapchat and instagram or a 12 year old that killed herself? The parents only have direct control over their daughters access. They can't stop an onslaught of crappy preteens on the internet from the other side. So while it is great to talk about how it isn't fair to "punish" the victim, it isn't fair to let them get tormented when an immediate actionable step is staring you in the face. 

Most sites dont have a Joe Bryant to keep it nice.  

 

[Ilov80s]

Using a phone is like when Atari came out.

There is no value in it but ####### it kids love it

Just not true. Many of the kids I work with have no access to the internet or a computer other than their phone. I would say access to a portable computer and internet is incredibly valuable in 2017. 

 

[belljr]

Whats better? A 12 year old that is upset because they cant be on snapchat and instagram or a 12 year old that killed herself? The parents only have direct control over their daughters access. They can't stop an onslaught of crappy preteens on the internet from the other side. So while it is great to talk about how it isn't fair to "punish" the victim, it isn't fair to let them get tormented when an immediate actionable step is staring you in the face. 

Most sites dont have a Joe Bryant to keep it nice.  

You know you can filter the content right?

 

[Ilov80s]

Whats better? A 12 year old that is upset because they cant be on snapchat and instagram or a 12 year old that killed herself? The parents only have direct control over their daughters access. They can't stop an onslaught of crappy preteens on the internet from the other side. So while it is great to talk about how it isn't fair to "punish" the victim, it isn't fair to let them get tormented when an immediate actionable step is staring you in the face. 

Most sites dont have a Joe Bryant to keep it nice.  

Yeah but it could also be perceived by the child that you are punishing them for getting bullied and that could have some negative impacts as well. It also might make them hesitant to bring up future issues like this in the future. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

You know you can filter the content right?

I can't (ex controls plan etc.). But yes, I realize others can and I do it on my son's laptop. That's just semantics though. If it seems like punishment to take away the phone, the kid isnt going to think it isnt punishment because you restricted all of their desired access. 

 

[Ilov80s]

I can't (ex controls plan etc.). But yes, I realize others can and I do it on my son's laptop. That's just semantics though. If it seems like punishment to take away the phone, the kid isnt going to think it isnt punishment because you restricted all of their desired access. 

Good point as well. Again, it's all about how you sell it and getting your child on board so it seems like a group decision and not a directive.