NFL Combine Fantasy Winners and Losers (1 Viewer)

[Multiple Scores]

If Wright runs much better at pro day would the combine still hurt his draft status?

 

[identikit]

If Wright runs much better at pro day would the combine still hurt his draft status?

I don't think so.

 

[zed2283]

The combine isn't everything, but it is something. I remember watching it a few years ago when Jon Dwyer was widely thought to be a first round prospect. He showed up looking like a tub of goo. Meanwhile Montario Hardesty and Ben Tate looked fit, and were much more fluid in drills. Hardesty and Tate ended up being drafted higher and have thus far had better careers (though that could change).

Point being, this stuff is relevant. I'm not going to go overboard downgrading Kendall Wright, but 4.61 is not the kind of time you want to see from someone who is supposed to have elite speed. More importantly, he looks like he might be carrying a little bit of extra weight. That raises questions about his physique and/or his work habits.

Didn't Charles Rogers quietly fail a piss test at this thing before he was drafted? I seem to recall something like that where one of his tests was red-flagged for one reason or another. That turned out to be a foreboding omen. I'm not saying that Wright is going to be a bust because he had a bad day two months before the draft. All I'm saying is that the little data points do matter sometimes.

LeSean McCoy?

 

[Kirby]

Some things to point out first... Jerry Rice specifically mentioned that he had been timed as fast as 4.44 at his school (which is more in line with his field speed) when he was coming out into the NFL Draft so despite his "slow" Combine time, presumably he ran faster at his Pro Day?

Some guys who impressed me a bit...

WR Danny Coale (Virginia Tech): Liked him a lot coming out and cemented himself a bit. Ran a 4.50 40 but made up for it with a solid vertical (35") and great times in the Shuttle (4.15) and 3 Cone (6.69). For comparison, Hill ran a 4.36 with a 4.48 and 6.88 despite being 4" taller and 14 pounds heavier.

WR Junior Hemingway (Michigan): Another guy I liked coming out despite his later round status. Killed it all over with a 4.53 40 at 225 pounds, 35.5" Vertical, 10'4" Broad Jump, and mind boggingly ridiculous numbers for the Shuttle (3.98) and 3 Cone (6.59). For comparison's sake, Chris Rainey at 5'8" 180 put up 3.93 and 6.50 in the shuttle and cone.

Coale I think could work himself into the 5th-6th Round in part due to his ST ability whereas Hemingway could be a sleeper type WR in the 5th or 6th round himself in part because Hemingway didn't put up the numbers that others in the class did.

Hemingway looked very good catching the ball as well. He was very smooth in the drills.

I can't wait to see what Mike Martin does in the speed/agilty stuff. I have a feeling that getting ready for the combine with Barwis helped the Michigan guys.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

WR's especially need to be able to run in and out of breaks/routes/away from defenders.

Can you point to some examples of small, top-end WRs (good enough that they justified a first round pick) who were very slow in terms of straight line speed, but made up for it with their ability to get in and out of breaks?

 

[Phil Elliott]

Running in a straight line without pads without defenders doesn't define players.WR's especially need to be able to run in and out of breaks/routes/away from defenders.Stephen Hill can do the first, not the second.Kendall Wright can do the second, not the first.

I watched a lot of Baylor games this year and my perception is one of Wright's strengths is getting behind the receivers. Not sure how that translates to the pros.

 

[Zimm]

Running in a straight line without pads without defenders doesn't define players.

WR's especially need to be able to run in and out of breaks/routes/away from defenders.

Stephen Hill can do the first, not the second.

Kendall Wright can do the second, not the first.

Have you seen Hill play? He isn't a track star guy, he is just a size/speed combo PROSPECT. Is he going to be an impact guy like Wright from day 1? No, but he is a guy that with some good coaching he has pro bowl potential, and as i mentioned earlier he was sloppu and choppy running routes on the field drills (I didn't just watch the 40). His footwork needs improvement, but his hands and adjustment on a few passes high were spectacular,and that deep ball he laid out for was the highlight of the day to me.

 

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

3. RB - D.Wilson - Virgina TechFormer NFL scout Bryan Broaddus described Wilson's 4.12 20-yard shuttle as "even more impressive than the jumps." Per SI.com draft analyst Tony Pauline, "Wilson ran terrific routes, showed soft hands and did a great job catching the deep ball" on the field. Wilson's explosiveness is obvious both in games and via his measurables. I think he has passed L.Miller as the number 3 rated RB in this years draft class and could be a surprising top 20 pick

If Wilson is the #3 rated RB and Miller is #4 now, who's #2? Are you assuming Martin is the #2? I don't disagree with that, but isn't Wilson higher ranked by most?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

WR's especially need to be able to run in and out of breaks/routes/away from defenders.

Can you point to some examples of small, top-end WRs (good enough that they justified a first round pick) who were very slow in terms of straight line speed, but made up for it with their ability to get in and out of breaks?

D. Mason, Donald Driver, Victor Cruz, Greg Jennings(4.46), Brandon Lloyd(4.62)I also don't think Wright is slow, he just didn't have a good day in tights.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Running in a straight line without pads without defenders doesn't define players.

WR's especially need to be able to run in and out of breaks/routes/away from defenders.

Stephen Hill can do the first, not the second.

Kendall Wright can do the second, not the first.

Have you seen Hill play? He isn't a track star guy, he is just a size/speed combo PROSPECT. Is he going to be an impact guy like Wright from day 1? No, but he is a guy that with some good coaching he has pro bowl potential, and as i mentioned earlier he was sloppu and choppy running routes on the field drills (I didn't just watch the 40). His footwork needs improvement, but his hands and adjustment on a few passes high were spectacular,and that deep ball he laid out for was the highlight of the day to me.

I have seen Hill play, which is why i'm down on him. He drops catch-able passes with nobody around him and isn't fast in and out of breaks which is the most important part of being a WR. He had one great diving catch, but so did David Tyree.

 

[yellowdog]

The Rams are the big winners. The price for RG3 went up.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

read an article on Yahoo abour Kirk Cousins -QB - MSU really helping his stock at the Senior Bowl and the Combine. IMO should be the 4th QB off the board.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

read an article on Yahoo abour Kirk Cousins -QB - MSU really helping his stock at the Senior Bowl and the Combine. IMO should be the 4th QB off the board.

I like Cousins a lot as well, solid all around QB.

 

[offdee]

Apologize for my ignorance, but did Trent Richardson not do speed or strength testing at the combine?

 

[matuski]

Big guys run 4.6s and go to the Hall. Small guys can't do that in the NFL. If you're Wright's size you'd better be really fast. (And feel free to point out any counter examples.)

Wes Welker , the prototype NFL "small guy" - 4.61/4.64/4.68

 

[BeTheMatch]

Apologize for my ignorance, but did Trent Richardson not do speed or strength testing at the combine?

He had knee surgery a couple weeks ago and didn't do anything.

 

[DexterDew]

If Wright runs much better at pro day would the combine still hurt his draft status?

I don't think so.

+1i've watched enough tape on him to see his game speed and think he will run sub 4.5 on his home field... and as someone who is vested in him already (plus have him targeted in a couple other rookie drafts), i am hoping he doesn't go Top 10 or maybe Top 15: i want him to end up in a favorable situation... i mean wouldn't us owners prefer SD>JAX?and i still think he is one of the first three WRs off the board in April, maybe Floyd moves before him to CHI now

 

[cstu]

Big guys run 4.6s and go to the Hall. Small guys can't do that in the NFL. If you're Wright's size you'd better be really fast. (And feel free to point out any counter examples.)

Wes Welker , the prototype NFL "small guy" - 4.61/4.64/4.68

Welker is in a unique situation and would not be putting up the numbers he does elsewhere IMO. Wright is a poor man's Victor Cruz.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

D. Mason, Donald Driver, Victor Cruz, Greg Jennings(4.46), Brandon Lloyd(4.62)

Wright's time could improve - you could be (w)right. And I knew I should have qualified 'small' in my last post. Really like that you got some slighter guys in the small mix there - but Driver and Lloyd are both over 6 feet. Jennings ran a 4.42. Cruz wasn't timed at the combine (and my whole point is that combine times are both accurate and very telling if you look at them in the proper context). Also, if you've got Mason's accurate combine info please send me a PM. I'd love to track down pre-1999 data.

 

[matuski]

Big guys run 4.6s and go to the Hall. Small guys can't do that in the NFL. If you're Wright's size you'd better be really fast. (And feel free to point out any counter examples.)

Wes Welker , the prototype NFL "small guy" - 4.61/4.64/4.68

Welker is in a unique situation and would not be putting up the numbers he does elsewhere IMO. Wright is a poor man's Victor Cruz.

If i cared enough I would probably find more "relatively slow" short guys out there. His was the first name I thought of....I'd venture to guess that a smaller player in the slot can succeed with quickness over speed, and route running over vertical leap. The outside would favor the speed, jumps, size... athleticism. Just my two cents.

 

[eaglezzz]

I was a big fan of Robert Turbin heading into the Combine and coming out I think he has started to turn a few heads as well. I may be biased living in his home state, but I think the guy has some big time skills and I like him as a top 5 Rookie RB out of this draft class. He works harder then anyone out there on the field and has always had that underrated label associated with him. Played for Utah State which is the school that gets no love here in the state and still continued to put up incredible numbers.

He is my dog that I am cheering for in this draft class. If he falls to the 2nd round in rookie drafts consider yourself lucky

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

D. Mason, Donald Driver, Victor Cruz, Greg Jennings(4.46), Brandon Lloyd(4.62)

Wright's time could improve - you could be (w)right. And I knew I should have qualified 'small' in my last post. Really like that you got some slighter guys in the small mix there - but Driver and Lloyd are both over 6 feet. Jennings ran a 4.42. Cruz wasn't timed at the combine (and my whole point is that combine times are both accurate and very telling if you look at them in the proper context).

Also, if you've got Mason's accurate combine info please send me a PM. I'd love to track down pre-1999 data.

Driver being 6-0- http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/1966/donald-driver

Lloyd being 6-0- http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/4582/brandon-lloyd

I think they're all in the same class of not being absolute blazers, but not slow pokes was my point.

I don't have information about Mason, but I don't remember him being a burner(could be wrong though).

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I was a big fan of Robert Turbin heading into the Combine and coming out I think he has started to turn a few heads as well. I may be biased living in his home state, but I think the guy has some big time skills and I like him as a top 5 Rookie RB out of this draft class. He works harder then anyone out there on the field and has always had that underrated label associated with him. Played for Utah State which is the school that gets no love here in the state and still continued to put up incredible numbers.He is my dog that I am cheering for in this draft class. If he falls to the 2nd round in rookie drafts consider yourself lucky

His arms look like nuclear weapons

 

[G-Money]

Guys play 2-4 years of college ball and these days NFL people can review every snap. Yet year after year the talking heads on TV make such a big deal out of the combine, as though 4.5 seconds of a guy's life is going to decide how well he'll play in the NFL in some major way. It sort of disturbs me too that this combine gets treated like it's all-important by some of the scouts too. Haven't we learned yet from the idiotic draft busts that made big jumps up the boards due to this thing and then weren't able to cut it? To me it's a show, nothing more, and any team who gets duped into making big alterations to their view of a player because of it deserves to get burned.

Thank you for posting...........could not agree more.

 

[Zimm]

3. RB - D.Wilson - Virgina TechFormer NFL scout Bryan Broaddus described Wilson's 4.12 20-yard shuttle as "even more impressive than the jumps." Per SI.com draft analyst Tony Pauline, "Wilson ran terrific routes, showed soft hands and did a great job catching the deep ball" on the field. Wilson's explosiveness is obvious both in games and via his measurables. I think he has passed L.Miller as the number 3 rated RB in this years draft class and could be a surprising top 20 pick

If Wilson is the #3 rated RB and Miller is #4 now, who's #2? Are you assuming Martin is the #2? I don't disagree with that, but isn't Wilson higher ranked by most?

I have Martin as my number 2 rated RB, He is a more complete prospect .

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Guys play 2-4 years of college ball and these days NFL people can review every snap. Yet year after year the talking heads on TV make such a big deal out of the combine, as though 4.5 seconds of a guy's life is going to decide how well he'll play in the NFL in some major way. It sort of disturbs me too that this combine gets treated like it's all-important by some of the scouts too. Haven't we learned yet from the idiotic draft busts that made big jumps up the boards due to this thing and then weren't able to cut it? To me it's a show, nothing more, and any team who gets duped into making big alterations to their view of a player because of it deserves to get burned.

Thank you for posting...........could not agree more.

And there's a reason why they have the job and you don't. There's a reason why an NFL team thought to hire a guy as a scout instead of coming to the Sharkpool for draft advice as well.You know what I hate about the combine the most? Posts like this. The kind that will criticize a whole guys profession that he's been doing for years and years when all they have is a Youtube knowledge and/ or a couple games they watched.

Not all guys like this bust.

The scout knows more then you about scouting football. Are some scouts bad at their job and wrong? Sure. But even the worst ones understand how to scout NFL talent better then you. If they're taking it into account then just maybe you should too....

And I'm not a combine advocate but I conceed that a lot of these guys know more then me when it comes to scouting a professional football player.

 

[Jason Wood]

The Combine has immense value, it's just that the parts that get bandied about by most people aren't the valuable components. 40 times don't skyrocket or plummet draft stock, nor do the number of reps at 225. But an overall picture of the player does...and the Combine gives a team a glimpse into a player's physical measurables, as well as a sense of how they handle themselves on and off the field, whether they have a work ethic and focus, the way they handle stressful inquiries, etc...

 

[Donnybrook]

I am surprised at the lack of love for Michael Egnew.

 

[coolnerd]

The Combine has immense value, it's just that the parts that get bandied about by most people aren't the valuable components. 40 times don't skyrocket or plummet draft stock, nor do the number of reps at 225. But an overall picture of the player does...and the Combine gives a team a glimpse into a player's physical measurables, as well as a sense of how they handle themselves on and off the field, whether they have a work ethic and focus, the way they handle stressful inquiries, etc...

Yep. The pure medicals and interviews probably influence stock the most and we fans get very little of that information.

 

[cstu]

3. RB - D.Wilson - Virgina TechFormer NFL scout Bryan Broaddus described Wilson's 4.12 20-yard shuttle as "even more impressive than the jumps." Per SI.com draft analyst Tony Pauline, "Wilson ran terrific routes, showed soft hands and did a great job catching the deep ball" on the field. Wilson's explosiveness is obvious both in games and via his measurables. I think he has passed L.Miller as the number 3 rated RB in this years draft class and could be a surprising top 20 pick

If Wilson is the #3 rated RB and Miller is #4 now, who's #2? Are you assuming Martin is the #2? I don't disagree with that, but isn't Wilson higher ranked by most?

I have Martin as my number 2 rated RB, He is a more complete prospect .

I have them all three pretty close together since there are things I like about each of them, but I can see that.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Kendall Wright had:

-3rd fastest(Hemmingway and Page beat him) short shuttle

-9th best vertical jump(Stephen Hill, Jerell Jackson, AJ Jenkins, Keshawn Martin, Kashif Moore, Chris Owusu, Jarius Wright, Devon Wylie)

Aka none of the major prospects, outside of Hill, beat Wright in the vertical

-13th in 3 cone drill. Major prospects that beat him(Sanu and Hill)

 

[cstu]

Kendall Wright had:-3rd fastest(Hemmingway and Page beat him) short shuttle-9th best vertical jump(Stephen Hill, Jerell Jackson, AJ Jenkins, Keshawn Martin, Kashif Moore, Chris Owusu, Jarius Wright, Devon Wylie)Aka none of the major prospects, outside of Hill, beat Wright in the vertical-13th in 3 cone drill. Major prospects that beat him(Sanu and Hill)

As slow as he is he's going to have to outjump people.

 

[duaneok66]

The Combine has immense value, it's just that the parts that get bandied about by most people aren't the valuable components. 40 times don't skyrocket or plummet draft stock, nor do the number of reps at 225. But an overall picture of the player does...and the Combine gives a team a glimpse into a player's physical measurables, as well as a sense of how they handle themselves on and off the field, whether they have a work ethic and focus, the way they handle stressful inquiries, etc...

great post.

 

[Birdie048]

Guys play 2-4 years of college ball and these days NFL people can review every snap. Yet year after year the talking heads on TV make such a big deal out of the combine, as though 4.5 seconds of a guy's life is going to decide how well he'll play in the NFL in some major way. It sort of disturbs me too that this combine gets treated like it's all-important by some of the scouts too. Haven't we learned yet from the idiotic draft busts that made big jumps up the boards due to this thing and then weren't able to cut it? To me it's a show, nothing more, and any team who gets duped into making big alterations to their view of a player because of it deserves to get burned.

Thank you for posting...........could not agree more.

And there's a reason why they have the job and you don't. There's a reason why an NFL team thought to hire a guy as a scout instead of coming to the Sharkpool for draft advice as well.You know what I hate about the combine the most? Posts like this. The kind that will criticize a whole guys profession that he's been doing for years and years when all they have is a Youtube knowledge and/ or a couple games they watched.

Not all guys like this bust.

The scout knows more then you about scouting football. Are some scouts bad at their job and wrong? Sure. But even the worst ones understand how to scout NFL talent better then you. If they're taking it into account then just maybe you should too....

And I'm not a combine advocate but I conceed that a lot of these guys know more then me when it comes to scouting a professional football player.

Who said anything about job? Looks like you are trying to start an agruement. I agree with Couch Potato here..... it's a small part of the picture..... not the "tell all" on a player, but the Media has made it into a Big Production & show so they are trying to sell something (like that the scouts or announcers actually know anything). It's mostly propaganda & media garbage. Sure the teams GM's, HC's & scouts get a more indepth look at the players, but the game tape will tell them most of what they should know before they arrive at Lucas Oil Field. The Interviews and medical reviews are probably the best part for the GM's.

Just because we are not employed by an NFL team does not make us unemployed. Besides, this is a hobby for me - a low stress "entertainment" value activity...

 

[Bigboy10182000]

You should definitely re-read my post and what I was specifically responding to in his post....

 

[B. Nugget]

I am surprised at the lack of love for Michael Egnew.

People think he is a system TE because he played at Mizzou, but he is actually much different than Rucker and Coffman because he was a great track star (can't remember if it was high jump or long jump) in high school and is pretty fast for a guy his size, they were 4.7-4.8 guys. Last year he took Danarios role as the guy Gabbert locked onto and was considered a stud because he caught 90 passes. This year with a much more balanced attack, not to mention a superstar RB and dual threat QB combining for almost 2k on the ground, his numbers slipped, but it's not like he forgot how to catch, plus he is a nightmare in the red one on fades...see ISU game 2010.This kid is going to be a steal if he goes round 4 or later, he can catch and run and he is pretty physical and helped block downfield to spring Josey on a couple of times on long TDs.He has a Hernandez-esque skill set, it will be interesting to see where he ends up and how they use him.

 

[EBF]

He looked pretty bad to me when I watched Missouri play ASU. Here is what I wrote back then:

- Mizzou has a bare cupboard on offense. There's no Jeremy Maclin, Brad Smith, or Danario Alexander on this team. Much-hyped TE Michael Egnew looked very pedestrian. A tall guy with reasonable coordination, but nothing special in terms of strength or quickness. WR TJ Moe is your typical scrappy college player who lacks next level measurables.

I'm not sold on Egnew or the Hernandez comparison. Hernandez is compact and agile, whereas I seem to recall Egnew playing tall and gangly. Coffman (another player I had strong doubts about) actually seems like a pretty decent comparison.

 

[ZWK]

Egnew caught a lot of passes, but he didn't make plays down the field. He averaged 9.1 yards per reception and didn't have a single 40+ yard reception at Missouri.

 

[B. Nugget]

Egnew caught a lot of passes, but he didn't make plays down the field. He averaged 9.1 yards per reception and didn't have a single 40+ yard reception at Missouri.

I'm glad you guys are posting, keep his value low and he will be an even bigger steal. Go look up his Mackey video on YouTube. Several plays over 20 yards and several times he bailed out Gabbert by diving to catch balls at his feet. Those aren't sexy and they don't make highlight films, but they keep drives going.Mizzou doesn't typically throw deep often, they throw screens and slants and create mismatches in space, specifically against LBs and safeties that are forced to cover him across the middle. Starting this fall DGB will be playing the Egnew/D. Alexander role in the offense.

 

[Donnybrook]

I appreciate the info. The reason I was asking was I thought he was given short shrift from the NFL network guys even though he had great measurables and caught the ball very well. Also, Tom Melton had him as his top TE at the senior bowl.

 

[sharptongued1]

Off the top of my head I'd think winners not yet mentioned would be Dontari Poe (solidified top 15 status) and Nick Perry (solidified being a first rounder).

 

[Jason Wood]

Off the top of my head I'd think winners not yet mentioned would be Dontari Poe (solidified top 15 status) and Nick Perry (solidified being a first rounder).

I haven't seen Poe play much, and certainly I never want to overemphasize Combine measurables, but any time a 345 pound dude is benching 225 40+ times and running a sub-5 second 40-yard dash, he's an insane physical specimen. I presume he can play, too, but honestly don't know much about his game beyond what I've read on the internetz.

 

[Skeletore Eh]

Kendall Wright had:-3rd fastest(Hemmingway and Page beat him) short shuttle-9th best vertical jump(Stephen Hill, Jerell Jackson, AJ Jenkins, Keshawn Martin, Kashif Moore, Chris Owusu, Jarius Wright, Devon Wylie)Aka none of the major prospects, outside of Hill, beat Wright in the vertical-13th in 3 cone drill. Major prospects that beat him(Sanu and Hill)

As slow as he is he's going to have to outjump people.

I'm gonna assume you've never seen him play. FWIWThe Sideline View's Adam Caplan suggests Baylor WR Kendall Wright's slow "official" (4.61) forty time at the Combine was due in large part to an inability to get cleanly out of his stance."Keep in mind he won't be playing out of a track stance at the next level," wrote Caplan. Wright was hand-timed as fast as 4.45, and he plays in the 4.3-4.4 range in games. "He’s the most explosive wide receiver in this draft and it’s not even close," Caplan adds. "...Any scouting staff that drops his draft grade significantly after one subpar workout should not keep their jobs."

 

[jurb26]

Guys play 2-4 years of college ball and these days NFL people can review every snap. Yet year after year the talking heads on TV make such a big deal out of the combine, as though 4.5 seconds of a guy's life is going to decide how well he'll play in the NFL in some major way. It sort of disturbs me too that this combine gets treated like it's all-important by some of the scouts too. Haven't we learned yet from the idiotic draft busts that made big jumps up the boards due to this thing and then weren't able to cut it? To me it's a show, nothing more, and any team who gets duped into making big alterations to their view of a player because of it deserves to get burned.

Thank you for posting...........could not agree more.

And there's a reason why they have the job and you don't. There's a reason why an NFL team thought to hire a guy as a scout instead of coming to the Sharkpool for draft advice as well.You know what I hate about the combine the most? Posts like this. The kind that will criticize a whole guys profession that he's been doing for years and years when all they have is a Youtube knowledge and/ or a couple games they watched.

Not all guys like this bust.

The scout knows more then you about scouting football. Are some scouts bad at their job and wrong? Sure. But even the worst ones understand how to scout NFL talent better then you. If they're taking it into account then just maybe you should too....

And I'm not a combine advocate but I conceed that a lot of these guys know more then me when it comes to scouting a professional football player.

I couldn't agree more. The combine has many useful purposes. Most of us don't know half of the actual value NFL scouts and coaches get out of it. A great deal is probably just geing able to see how these kids handle the process. As a guy who simply loves football, following it and playign fantasy. I can say that unless the combine was held I never would have had a guy like S. Hill on my radar. Noboday else here would have either. That's not saying he is the next big thing. It's simply saying that he is a guy worth keeping an eye on and seeing what happens.

Do some people take small aspects of it too far? Sure. Just as many people undervalue it's value though. The objective is to blend the game tape and combine performace in the right mix to come up with a complete evaluation.