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NFL viewership off 11% YOY (1 Viewer)

Tiger Fan said:
I don't want it to go under in any form or fashion.  I think people are pissed b/c the NFL is taking its core customer for granted and thinks it's too big to fail.  It isn't....I'm not talking going under, but existing as we know might not be for much longer.
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There is a lot of truth to this. The media is not helping the NFL right now--pushing the whole flag protests may be good for clicks, but hurts the brand as a whole. ESPN's top articles this morning were who protested, Pence leaving and Penn from the Raiders getting in a verbal alteration with fans after the game--none of these benefit the NFL.

Fantasy football is pretty much the major thing saving this league right now. 

 
Capella said:
What is e-sports? People playing street fighter and ####?
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The 2017 League of Legends World Championship is going on right now. It's the most popular game in the world and if you don't play it here in the states (or not in the gambling thread here) you've never heard of it. It's a lifestyle in South Korea, but everything e- is a lifestyle there.

North American teams are being bought for multiple millions. And they suck on the international stage. Like real bad. Like Americans and soccer.

Team Solomid, Counter Logic Gaming, Cloud9 - those are the new Yankees, Cowboys and Lakers.

 
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hagmania said:
The 2017 League of Legends World Championship is going on right now. It's the most popular game in the world and if you don't play it here in the states (or not in the gambling thread here) you've never heard of it. It's a lifestyle in South Korea, but everything e- is a lifestyle there.

North American teams are being bought for multiple millions. And they suck on the international stage. Like real bad. Like Americans and soccer.

Team Solomid, Counter Logic Gaming, Cloud9 - those are the new Yankees, Cowboys and Lakers.
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ok 

definitely out on whatever this is 

 
Twitch pulls really good streaming numbers for video games.  At any given time of the day there can be hundreds of thousands of viewers watching.  Many of the games listed above are popular along with PUBG (which is a current very popular viewing game). 

 
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Re: the Patriots + esports, Robert Kraft is a partial owner in one of the new Overwatch teams for the league that starts soon. 

Esports is quietly becoming a financial behemoth, and traditional sporting outlets are taking note.  Shaq / A-Rod / Jimmy Rollins are partial owners in Team NRG.  Former NBA player Rick Fox runs one of the top teams out of North America, Team Echo Fox.  Utah Jazz player Jonas Jerebko owns Renegades - one of the top CS:GO teams in the world.  The 76ers became the first American sports team to own an esports organization when they acquired Dignitas (legendary CS team though they're on the downturn) and Apex last year. 

For a sport that is so quiet, the amounts of money being funneled into it are staggering.  The top CS:GO players make easily well into 6-figures and I'd have to imagine that top LoL, DOTA, etc. players make even more than that.  The top 10 CS:GO teams alone won $7.7 million in prize money in 2016, not counting endorsements, player salaries, other revenue streams, etc.  The top team from Brazil took home $1.8 million.

Part of the problem is that the scene is fragmented and video games are always evolving.  A game like Counter Strike is an anomaly in that it has been relevant for such a long time.  Even a game like Halo, which is probably the OG of esports in general, has fallen off the map entirely in terms of competitive gaming.  It's not like football - football will always be football.  But if you dedicated your life to playing Halo only to have Halo put out a few dud games and fall off the map....well, your greatest skill is maybe worthless.  

 
BassNBrew said:
I'd be interested in reading any material or links you have on this.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/recruiting-insider/wp/2017/09/06/youth-sports-study-declining-participation-rising-costs-and-unqualified-coaches/?utm_term=.f47d6181883e

ETA:  Being involved since my kids were 5 and being on the board.  Sports are way down here locally.  For example our softabll league alone has seen numbers dropping a lot.  We used to field almost 6 teams at each level. Now we can barely field 1 14u team.  

Field hockey has been down

Basketball

Football  

:shrug:

 
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Steve Tasker said:
Re: the Patriots + esports, Robert Kraft is a partial owner in one of the new Overwatch teams for the league that starts soon. 

Esports is quietly becoming a financial behemoth, and traditional sporting outlets are taking note.  Shaq / A-Rod / Jimmy Rollins are partial owners in Team NRG.  Former NBA player Rick Fox runs one of the top teams out of North America, Team Echo Fox.  Utah Jazz player Jonas Jerebko owns Renegades - one of the top CS:GO teams in the world.  The 76ers became the first American sports team to own an esports organization when they acquired Dignitas (legendary CS team though they're on the downturn) and Apex last year. 

For a sport that is so quiet, the amounts of money being funneled into it are staggering.  The top CS:GO players make easily well into 6-figures and I'd have to imagine that top LoL, DOTA, etc. players make even more than that.  The top 10 CS:GO teams alone won $7.7 million in prize money in 2016, not counting endorsements, player salaries, other revenue streams, etc.  The top team from Brazil took home $1.8 million.

Part of the problem is that the scene is fragmented and video games are always evolving.  A game like Counter Strike is an anomaly in that it has been relevant for such a long time.  Even a game like Halo, which is probably the OG of esports in general, has fallen off the map entirely in terms of competitive gaming.  It's not like football - football will always be football.  But if you dedicated your life to playing Halo only to have Halo put out a few dud games and fall off the map....well, your greatest skill is maybe worthless.  
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I'm curious about the support that Blizzard gives Overwatch. They were the original kings of e-sport imo (Warcraft III, Starcraft: Brood Wars) and have managed to get Hearthstone over, while Heroes of the Storm is generally considered a failure.

I see the current landscape as follows: CS:GO and LoL on top, tier 1. Dota2 firmly tier 2 by itself. Overwatch tier 3 and on the rise, leaving Starcraft to rot where it is. Hearthstone is in its own little weird niche.

 
Jobber said:
Youth soccer participation grows YOY. It's possible overall youth numbers are down, but I'd guess most of that is with the old guard sports like football and baseball. 
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baseball is allegedly on its way back up - need to find the article

 
belljr said:
baseball is allegedly on its way back up - need to find the article
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This is a year old thread with 1,300 posts in it so forgive me if I'm repeating myself but I actually think baseball is going to be all right in the long run. Nice long season, time enough to put 60 million fannies in the seats every summer and no giant national tv contract propping it up (except for the post-season, I guess, and that's not going away as long as those 60 million seats keep getting filled).

 
roadkill1292 said:
This is a year old thread with 1,300 posts in it so forgive me if I'm repeating myself but I actually think baseball is going to be all right in the long run. Nice long season, time enough to put 60 million fannies in the seats every summer and no giant national tv contract propping it up (except for the post-season, I guess, and that's not going away as long as those 60 million seats keep getting filled).
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Sorry - I was referring to youth participation levels

 
I believe that soccer will be the #1 sport in the US in my lifetime. With the growth of participants, the amount of games available on TV now, and on top of that you have millions of soccer players (such as myself) who grew up with the game and now have kids and disposable income to put toward consuming soccer.

The last 10 years especially have been a HUGE boom in what's available to watch and read about. 

 
ChiefD said:
I believe that soccer will be the #1 sport in the US in my lifetime. With the growth of participants, the amount of games available on TV now, and on top of that you have millions of soccer players (such as myself) who grew up with the game and now have kids and disposable income to put toward consuming soccer.

The last 10 years especially have been a HUGE boom in what's available to watch and read about. 
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I don't think it'll be #1, and I'm one of those guys that is watching more soccer at the expense of the NFL lately. However, I can see it being considered a "major" American sport as time goes on, though.

 
hagmania said:
I'm curious about the support that Blizzard gives Overwatch. They were the original kings of e-sport imo (Warcraft III, Starcraft: Brood Wars) and have managed to get Hearthstone over, while Heroes of the Storm is generally considered a failure.

I see the current landscape as follows: CS:GO and LoL on top, tier 1. Dota2 firmly tier 2 by itself. Overwatch tier 3 and on the rise, leaving Starcraft to rot where it is. Hearthstone is in its own little weird niche.
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I am very curious to see how the Overwatch League shakes out.  With CS:GO (the only of the "major" esports that I follow), there has been talk of player fatigue and tournament fatigue due to the fragmented system of leagues, sponsors, etc.  You might be playing in an ELEAGUE lan in NYC one weekend and then an IBM lan in Sydney the next weekend and then an ESL lan in Romania the next weekend.  Plus your entire week filled-in with league matches, other qualifiers, etc.  It can be a lot.

Overwatch League consolidates that into 1 absolute premier competition, with actual structured competition - minimum player salaries of $50,000, mandatory team-paid health insurance, housing, retirement benefits, and 50% bonus on all winnings.  

What I find even more interesting is the mix of orgs in here.  You have your traditional "grassroots" North American esports orgs - orgs who started from nothing and have turned into some of the world's premier orgs - Optic, NV, Cloud9 - these are orgs that have a rich history in the American esports landscape.  But then you have the heavy hitters, the new money - Robert Kraft (Patriots), Jeff Wilpon (Mets), The Kroenke family (a bunch of stuff), Comcast, AEG, etc.  These are not traditional esports investors.  In the esports world, you see a lot of player turnover, roster swaps, shorter-term contracts than these guys are used to.  There won't be much, if any, TV money.  The money will come off of tech ads, Twitch, etc.  How will these guys adapt?  Will they partner with a more established org and sit back and provide funding while taking their cut of the money?  Are they going to dive right in, hire some people to run an in-house esports division?

I saw a discussion just yesterday that investors are considering downgrading Activision/Blizzard stock over fears that the Overwatch League will fail spectacularly.  Should be interesting to see what happens.

 
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Riot took the initiative a few years back much like Blizzard is now when they created their regional leagues. NA, EU, South Korea, China, Southeast Asia, and Brazil all have Riot-sponsored leagues (with several other being seeded) with many of those same requirements you list above. Strict enforcement of team-player contracts, LCS teams don't play in any International tournaments other than Riot-sponsored events like the Mid-Season Invitational or World Championship, etc. I think it has helped grow their scene by a big margin.

Dota2 scene is exactly like CS:GO. Common denominator there is Valve, and even they are starting to get into a more structured schedule it seems like with Dota2 at least, having introduced "The Majors."

 
Steve Tasker said:
I am very curious to see how the Overwatch League shakes out.  With CS:GO (the only of the "major" esports that I follow), there has been talk of player fatigue and tournament fatigue due to the fragmented system of leagues, sponsors, etc.  You might be playing in an ELEAGUE lan in NYC one weekend and then an IBM lan in Sydney the next weekend and then an ESL lan in Romania the next weekend.  Plus your entire week filled-in with league matches, other qualifiers, etc.  It can be a lot.

Overwatch League consolidates that into 1 absolute premier competition, with actual structured competition - minimum player salaries of $50,000, mandatory team-paid health insurance, housing, retirement benefits, and 50% bonus on all winnings.  

What I find even more interesting is the mix of orgs in here.  You have your traditional "grassroots" North American esports orgs - orgs who started from nothing and have turned into some of the world's premier orgs - Optic, NV, Cloud9 - these are orgs that have a rich history in the American esports landscape.  But then you have the heavy hitters, the new money - Robert Kraft (Patriots), Jeff Wilpon (Mets), The Kroenke family (a bunch of stuff), Comcast, AEG, etc.  These are not traditional esports investors.  In the esports world, you see a lot of player turnover, roster swaps, shorter-term contracts than these guys are used to.  There won't be much, if any, TV money.  The money will come off of tech ads, Twitch, etc.  How will these guys adapt?  Will they partner with a more established org and sit back and provide funding while taking their cut of the money?  Are they going to dive right in, hire some people to run an in-house esports division?

I saw a discussion just yesterday that investors are considering downgrading Activision/Blizzard stock over fears that the Overwatch League will fail spectacularly.  Should be interesting to see what happens.
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I am very excited to watch other people play video games I don't give a #### about.

 
ChiefD said:
I believe that soccer will be the #1 sport in the US in my lifetime. With the growth of participants, the amount of games available on TV now, and on top of that you have millions of soccer players (such as myself) who grew up with the game and now have kids and disposable income to put toward consuming soccer.

The last 10 years especially have been a HUGE boom in what's available to watch and read about. 
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Once the US national team wins the world cup, soccer is going to blow up in this country

 
ChiefD said:
I believe that soccer will be the #1 sport in the US in my lifetime. With the growth of participants, the amount of games available on TV now, and on top of that you have millions of soccer players (such as myself) who grew up with the game and now have kids and disposable income to put toward consuming soccer.

The last 10 years especially have been a HUGE boom in what's available to watch and read about. 
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NutterButter said:
Once the US national team wins the world cup, soccer is going to blow up in this country
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Thank goodness that will never happen.

Why do you liberal pinkos hate America?

 
roadkill1292 said:
This is a year old thread with 1,300 posts in it so forgive me if I'm repeating myself but I actually think baseball is going to be all right in the long run. Nice long season, time enough to put 60 million fannies in the seats every summer and no giant national tv contract propping it up (except for the post-season, I guess, and that's not going away as long as those 60 million seats keep getting filled).
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The sum total of the regional rights packages is pretty big.  https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/estimated-tv-revenues-for-all-30-mlb-teams/

 
I'm sure the NFL game had higher ratings tonight, but you lost as a sports fan if you watched that over the Nats-Cubs.

 
ChiefD said:
I believe that soccer will be the #1 sport in the US in my lifetime. With the growth of participants, the amount of games available on TV now, and on top of that you have millions of soccer players (such as myself) who grew up with the game and now have kids and disposable income to put toward consuming soccer.

The last 10 years especially have been a HUGE boom in what's available to watch and read about. 
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Attendance at last nc state soccer game 308.  Over half of those were family and girlfriends. The last football game was 56000+

 
BassNBrew said:
Attendance at last nc state soccer game 308.  Over half of those were family and girlfriends. The last football game was 56000+
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Notre Dame gets 500-2000 for their games, unless it's the Mexico U-20s to close the spring season, then its about 8000+.

Still pales to how many fill Notre Dame Stadium for football games.

 
At 100k per event in 2016, Formula One was the league with the highest average per event totals. The NFL is 2nd with 68k, and Bundesliga is third with 43k.

But they don't have as many events as some others. In terms of spectators per year, MLB blows everyone away with a total attendance of 72 million, almost triple any other league. But they have twice as many games, or more, as any other league.

Didn't find much live attendance numbers for esports, only found how many watched broadcasts.  Though there was a championship in Poland that drew 170k in live attendance.

 
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