*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (9 Viewers)

[urbanhack]

Millions of people died because of the decisions and neglect of certain people,

Not sure I understand this. What specifically are you talking about? Talking about out us not giving (donating) the vaccines we weren't going to be using to areas who couldnt afford to vuy them? Stuff like that?

Or certain people down playing the entire pandemic and that it will just magically just go away?

 

[Sparky Polastri]

If the funds aren't there, there's no point in doing any of it. It takes a long time to start from scratch and see results.

This is what kills me. I really don't care about who believes what. If what I believe is wrong I'd like it proved and I can update my thinking and move forward and vice versa. I'm talking purely medically the rest has little interest to me. To withhold or sabotage medical research we so badly need not only for covid, but across the board should be unacceptable to everyone. Speaking for myself i need research into covid/covid vaccine complications to continue or I'm stuck with "bench medicine" and no other path forward as this was already lacking with whatever meager funding was available before. It's great that the work continues in other places, but that still leaves people here behind as doctors aren't going to line up to prescribe treatments that haven't been studied and approved domestically. Brutal.

Can't do much without the funds. Fortunately, it seems the rest of the world gets it. They are vigorously testing the current vaccines to measure effectiveness against the new strains like the one spreading in South Africa. We too did this for all the variants after the strain the vaccines were created for. We took none of it for granted and assumed nothing in terms of effectiveness. We are now being forced to take a very different approach and its going to bite us in the butt at some point.

Here's my dilemma. I can't get the vaccine and i can't get covid. I can mask, but that comes with a unique set of problems I'm sure everyone is aware of. Without research I'm up the creek without a paddle. The typical solutions just won't work for me. "Bench medicine" isn't sufficient for the majority for reasons discussed in another thread (I was willing to take a leap of faith others may not). Probably not a new set of problems for many with other medical needs, but since we're specifically discussing covid here it's all that matters for this thread. It's madness and infuriating to live this way. Talk about a **** sandwich. And now to hear all research is paused I know (reasonably assume anyway) that when/if it starts back up i go right back to the end of the line in terms of covid research. It's an uncommon angle to the covid saga I'll admit that, but staring down the barrel of living this way for "reasons" sucks.

This is "day in the life of...." for autoimmune compromised people. We likely all have this as a possibility in life depending on specific circumstances. I don't say that to diminish your personal position rather to give context. The human body is INCREDIBLY fragile and resilient all at the same time. Why I detoured away from economics and got sucked into biology in the first place.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Millions of people died because of the decisions and neglect of certain people,

Not sure I understand this. What specifically are you talking about? Talking about out us not giving (donating) the vaccines we weren't going to be using to areas who couldnt afford to vuy them? Stuff like that?

Or certain people down playing the entire pandemic and that it will just magically just go away?

To the point that both myself and culdeus made initially, that really has no impact on the science other than timeline for getting the vaccine(s) out to people. And all that is absolutely political. Tread carefully. I got clipped for pointing out a person using a political mouthpiece as their evidence in the economy thread (that was shut down while I was on a TO because of said mouthpiece). The science doesn't care if the virus was found purposefully in a lab or was caught by someone out in nature. The solution/process was going to be the same once known.

 

[AAABatteries]

It's crazy to me that people can in one breath cheerlead how these miracle vaccines saved millions of lives and in the next breath casually say the cause of millions of other lives being lost or nearly lost really doesn't matter and is only a political exercise.

Millions of people died because of the decisions and neglect of certain people, and many untoward millions more would have if not for the heroics of vaccines.

The fact that many folks in here dismiss the first half of that sentence and only care about the second part of that sentence baffles me.

Can you specify the neglect you mean in the first half or is that political and verboten?

 

[Sparky Polastri]

If the funds aren't there, there's no point in doing any of it. It takes a long time to start from scratch and see results.

This is what kills me. I really don't care about who believes what. If what I believe is wrong I'd like it proved and I can update my thinking and move forward and vice versa. I'm talking purely medically the rest has little interest to me. To withhold or sabotage medical research we so badly need not only for covid, but across the board should be unacceptable to everyone. Speaking for myself i need research into covid/covid vaccine complications to continue or I'm stuck with "bench medicine" and no other path forward as this was already lacking with whatever meager funding was available before. It's great that the work continues in other places, but that still leaves people here behind as doctors aren't going to line up to prescribe treatments that haven't been studied and approved domestically. Brutal.

Can't do much without the funds. Fortunately, it seems the rest of the world gets it. They are vigorously testing the current vaccines to measure effectiveness against the new strains like the one spreading in South Africa. We too did this for all the variants after the strain the vaccines were created for. We took none of it for granted and assumed nothing in terms of effectiveness. We are now being forced to take a very different approach and its going to bite us in the butt at some point.

Here's my dilemma. I can't get the vaccine and i can't get covid. I can mask, but that comes with a unique set of problems I'm sure everyone is aware of. Without research I'm up the creek without a paddle. The typical solutions just won't work for me. "Bench medicine" isn't sufficient for the majority for reasons discussed in another thread (I was willing to take a leap of faith others may not). Probably not a new set of problems for many with other medical needs, but since we're specifically discussing covid here it's all that matters for this thread. It's madness and infuriating to live this way. Talk about a **** sandwich. And now to hear all research is paused I know (reasonably assume anyway) that when/if it starts back up i go right back to the end of the line in terms of covid research. It's an uncommon angle to the covid saga I'll admit that, but staring down the barrel of living this way for "reasons" sucks.

This is "day in the life of...." for autoimmune compromised people. We likely all have this as a possibility in life depending on specific circumstances. I don't say that to diminish your personal position rather to give context. The human body is INCREDIBLY fragile and resilient all at the same time. Why I detoured away from economics and got sucked into biology in the first place.

I agree. I mentioned it in my post, but that my experience is specific to the thread in comparison.

I'll say this, I got a taste of what it's like to walk in their shoes and it was eye opening what people go through. I really had no idea. I'm better now, but knowing it could happen again isn't a great feeling.

Could also be that you don't react the same way so you've got that going for you, which is nice.

 

[Terminalxylem]

If the funds aren't there, there's no point in doing any of it. It takes a long time to start from scratch and see results.

This is what kills me. I really don't care about who believes what. If what I believe is wrong I'd like it proved and I can update my thinking and move forward and vice versa. I'm talking purely medically the rest has little interest to me. To withhold or sabotage medical research we so badly need not only for covid, but across the board should be unacceptable to everyone. Speaking for myself i need research into covid/covid vaccine complications to continue or I'm stuck with "bench medicine" and no other path forward as this was already lacking with whatever meager funding was available before. It's great that the work continues in other places, but that still leaves people here behind as doctors aren't going to line up to prescribe treatments that haven't been studied and approved domestically. Brutal.

Can't do much without the funds. Fortunately, it seems the rest of the world gets it. They are vigorously testing the current vaccines to measure effectiveness against the new strains like the one spreading in South Africa. We too did this for all the variants after the strain the vaccines were created for. We took none of it for granted and assumed nothing in terms of effectiveness. We are now being forced to take a very different approach and its going to bite us in the butt at some point.

Here's my dilemma. I can't get the vaccine and i can't get covid. I can mask, but that comes with a unique set of problems I'm sure everyone is aware of. Without research I'm up the creek without a paddle. The typical solutions just won't work for me. "Bench medicine" isn't sufficient for the majority for reasons discussed in another thread (I was willing to take a leap of faith others may not). Probably not a new set of problems for many with other medical needs, but since we're specifically discussing covid here it's all that matters for this thread. It's madness and infuriating to live this way. Talk about a **** sandwich. And now to hear all research is paused I know (reasonably assume anyway) that when/if it starts back up i go right back to the end of the line in terms of covid research. It's an uncommon angle to the covid saga I'll admit that, but staring down the barrel of living this way for "reasons" sucks.

Can you elaborate here?

I can't think of a single medical condition which precludes the use of all covid vaccines (mRNA and Novavax) and/or makes covid such a threat to one's health, yet isn't worth dealing with the "problems" inherent to non-pharmaceutical interventions.

 

[fatness]

Out with the truth. All of it. The question is whether people are really going to listen in the end to the truth and not to a version of the truth that fits their preconceived notions. If you read the article I linked, a vaccine skeptic commissions an anti-vaccination guy who has lost his medical license and has not told the truth about the efficacy of vaccines to head the study into the vaccine/autism link. That link has been discredited so many times yet rears its head like the hydra every time in public conversation. As the quote to close the article intones, they know the outcome they want to reach and they're cherry picking so that the data satisfies their conclusion. That's not science when the mRNA backers do it; and it certainly isn't when the other side does out of some erroneous and faulty sense of accountability/liability and justice.

Thanks for emphasizing that link's contents again. That "study" he's conducting has the potential to kill people through distorting information.

 

[rockaction]

Thanks for emphasizing that link's contents again. That "study" he's conducting has the potential to kill people through distorting information.

Thanks for posting it the first time.

 

[fatness]

The entire staff of the federal government's Office of Infectious Disease and HIV/AIDS Policy is expected to be laid off, multiple federal health officials told CBS News Friday. The moves are part of a broader restructuring plan ordered by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that involves cutting 20,000 HHS positions. Much of the government's efforts to buoy lagging childhood vaccination rates nationwide have been run through OIDP, including a new campaign called "Let's Get Real" that had launched in the final months of the Biden administration to provide resources and information to health care providers talking to hesitant parents. "Spreading the truth saves lives, so use our resources to help parents understand how vaccines work, why they're safe, and how they help protect kids," the department had said of the campaign after it was launched.

The National Vaccine Program has also been run by OIDP, which works with an advisory committee to coordinate the department's agencies to develop vaccines, oversee their safety and increase their availability and use. Other initiatives overseen by OIDP include the Ending the HIV Epidemic in the U.S. program, which was launched by President Trump during his first term. It is unclear what will happen to those initiatives, which Congress had approved funding for.

RFK Jr. to gut vaccine promotion and HIV prevention office, sources say​

 

[Ilov80s]

Out with the truth. All of it. The question is whether people are really going to listen in the end to the truth and not to a version of the truth that fits their preconceived notions. If you read the article I linked, a vaccine skeptic commissions an anti-vaccination guy who has lost his medical license and has not told the truth about the efficacy of vaccines to head the study into the vaccine/autism link. That link has been discredited so many times yet rears its head like the hydra every time in public conversation. As the quote to close the article intones, they know the outcome they want to reach and they're cherry picking so that the data satisfies their conclusion. That's not science when the mRNA backers do it; and it certainly isn't when the other side does out of some erroneous and faulty sense of accountability/liability and justice.

Thanks for emphasizing that link's contents again. That "study" he's conducting has the potential to kill people through distorting information.

Meanwhile there are links between air pollution and autism. So if you wanted to actually seriously tackle this it would be tightening air cleanliness standards but it does seem we are on a path to allow for increased emissions. Is this stupidity? Ulterior motives?

From a personal level I sort of understand because as a mom what can I do for my kid about air pollution? I can control if my child is vaccinated or not which gives me (the illusion of) power. Also if your child has autism and you want to blame someone or something, a narrative has been set and there’s a community to be part. That doesn’t exist for air pollution and the links aren’t concrete nor have they been given the platform that vaccinations have. Still I think we should be working towards a community of people who seek the truth and not comfort or emotional convenience when talking about medical issues of this magnitude.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

 

[Desert_Power]

The entire staff of the federal government's Office of Infectious Disease and HIV/AIDS Policy is expected to be laid off, multiple federal health officials told CBS News Friday. The moves are part of a broader restructuring plan ordered by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that involves cutting 20,000 HHS positions. Much of the government's efforts to buoy lagging childhood vaccination rates nationwide have been run through OIDP, including a new campaign called "Let's Get Real" that had launched in the final months of the Biden administration to provide resources and information to health care providers talking to hesitant parents. "Spreading the truth saves lives, so use our resources to help parents understand how vaccines work, why they're safe, and how they help protect kids," the department had said of the campaign after it was launched.

The National Vaccine Program has also been run by OIDP, which works with an advisory committee to coordinate the department's agencies to develop vaccines, oversee their safety and increase their availability and use. Other initiatives overseen by OIDP include the Ending the HIV Epidemic in the U.S. program, which was launched by President Trump during his first term. It is unclear what will happen to those initiatives, which Congress had approved funding for.

RFK Jr. to gut vaccine promotion and HIV prevention office, sources say​

This doesn't seem wise.

 

[rockaction]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

I don't disagree it's unusual and i don't tell this story to try and scare or dissuade anyone from vaccination, but this is my reality. It didn't cause an allergic reaction, but more of an autoimmune response (long covid from my body overproducing spike protein, atleast that's the theory for cause).

After my vaccination i was hit with a variety of long covid symptoms from immediate reactions to symptoms that occurred over the course of 5-6 weeks. (I'm not going to publicly get into that, but if you'd like to better understand my experience, diagnostics, treatment you can send a private message and i would be happy to answer questions you might have) If you've seen or are aware of the LISTEN study done by Yale I was a participant in that study. Fast forward 6 months post vaccination and i contracted covid ironically enough at a clinic for long covid. Covid made my symptoms (that were improving a lot by that time) significantly worse, same basic problems just amplified. After 3 years of specialists, family doctors, researchers, poking, prodding, and taking a few treatment risks I'm back to 99.9% of my old self. I've received a pretty luke warm response to telling this story here and in real life, so i mostly keep it to myself. Ultimately i would like to help with this information, but i totally understand why people are hesitant. Anyway, that's the gist of it.

Must be tough to be the bearer of unwanted news about a topic as politicized and emotional as this one. Especially when it's about something people can't possibly know about or validate, and it's your health and well-being that's been compromised. Welp, kudos to you for saying something and staying patient through the long haul of long covid symptoms, and also for being a patient for the long haul, it seems. Best to you, Longtime Lurker. Hope your issues get fully resolved.

I do indeed feel for you and believe you. That's an awful position to be in.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

I don't disagree it's unusual and i don't tell this story to try and scare or dissuade anyone from vaccination, but this is my reality. It didn't cause an allergic reaction, but more of an autoimmune response (long covid from my body overproducing spike protein, atleast that's the theory for cause).

After my vaccination i was hit with a variety of long covid symptoms from immediate reactions to symptoms that occurred over the course of 5-6 weeks. (I'm not going to publicly get into that, but if you'd like to better understand my experience, diagnostics, treatment you can send a private message and i would be happy to answer questions you might have) If you've seen or are aware of the LISTEN study done by Yale I was a participant in that study. Fast forward 6 months post vaccination and i contracted covid ironically enough at a clinic for long covid. Covid made my symptoms (that were improving a lot by that time) significantly worse, same basic problems just amplified. After 3 years of specialists, family doctors, researchers, poking, prodding, and taking a few treatment risks I'm back to 99.9% of my old self. I've received a pretty luke warm response to telling this story here and in real life, so i mostly keep it to myself. Ultimately i would like to help with this information, but i totally understand why people are hesitant. Anyway, that's the gist of it.

The more you talk about your experience the more it sounds like your immune system suffered from some variation of "antibody dependent enhancement" with these proteins. Have you heard that term before? If not, look it up and read about it a bit and let me know if you have any questions.

 

[JAA]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

I don't disagree it's unusual and i don't tell this story to try and scare or dissuade anyone from vaccination, but this is my reality. It didn't cause an allergic reaction, but more of an autoimmune response (long covid from my body overproducing spike protein, atleast that's the theory for cause).

After my vaccination i was hit with a variety of long covid symptoms from immediate reactions to symptoms that occurred over the course of 5-6 weeks. (I'm not going to publicly get into that, but if you'd like to better understand my experience, diagnostics, treatment you can send a private message and i would be happy to answer questions you might have) If you've seen or are aware of the LISTEN study done by Yale I was a participant in that study. Fast forward 6 months post vaccination and i contracted covid ironically enough at a clinic for long covid. Covid made my symptoms (that were improving a lot by that time) significantly worse, same basic problems just amplified. After 3 years of specialists, family doctors, researchers, poking, prodding, and taking a few treatment risks I'm back to 99.9% of my old self. I've received a pretty luke warm response to telling this story here and in real life, so i mostly keep it to myself. Ultimately i would like to help with this information, but i totally understand why people are hesitant. Anyway, that's the gist of it.

Must be tough to be the bearer of unwanted news about a topic as politicized and emotional as this one. Especially when it's about something people can't possibly know about or validate, and it's your health and well-being that's been compromised. Welp, kudos to you for saying something and staying patient through the long haul of long covid symptoms, and also for being a patient for the long haul, it seems. Best to you, Longtime Lurker. Hope your issues get fully resolved.

I do indeed feel for you and believe you. That's an awful position to be in.

Very kind of you to say and i really do appreciate it, internet stranger or not.

I hate to get to into the details and derail what has been a pretty good conversation, but you summarized the experience pretty well. The unknown and physical symptoms were bad enough, but the social aspect is another unwanted layer to contend with. I don't talk about any of it with friends and hardly at all with family outside of my wife. I'm VERY happy to say I'm recovered/remission and am back to my normal life, so even if it were to happen to someone (I think it's pretty rare how it happened to me, but long covid from infection can happen and i think most people understand that part) recovery is very possible and seems likely for most if the unfortunate were to happen.

Glad to hear you are doing well

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

I don't disagree it's unusual and i don't tell this story to try and scare or dissuade anyone from vaccination, but this is my reality. It didn't cause an allergic reaction, but more of an autoimmune response (long covid from my body overproducing spike protein, atleast that's the theory for cause).

After my vaccination i was hit with a variety of long covid symptoms from immediate reactions to symptoms that occurred over the course of 5-6 weeks. (I'm not going to publicly get into that, but if you'd like to better understand my experience, diagnostics, treatment you can send a private message and i would be happy to answer questions you might have) If you've seen or are aware of the LISTEN study done by Yale I was a participant in that study. Fast forward 6 months post vaccination and i contracted covid ironically enough at a clinic for long covid. Covid made my symptoms (that were improving a lot by that time) significantly worse, same basic problems just amplified. After 3 years of specialists, family doctors, researchers, poking, prodding, and taking a few treatment risks I'm back to 99.9% of my old self. I've received a pretty luke warm response to telling this story here and in real life, so i mostly keep it to myself. Ultimately i would like to help with this information, but i totally understand why people are hesitant. Anyway, that's the gist of it.

The more you talk about your experience the more it sounds like your immune system suffered from some variation of "antibody dependent enhancement" with these proteins. Have you heard that term before? If not, look it up and read about it a bit and let me know if you have any questions.

Took a quick glance at this and noticed Immunoglobulins are mentioned. I had these tested towards the end of my illness and they were in good range, but a friend I was working with to compare test results had his levels in the tank, particularly IgG. There was no baseline to compare, but do you think there could be a link there? I've also seen people with similar symptoms to me report very low IgE levels. So the follow up question is can these recover or is this a permanent problem?

Immunoglobulin is just another name for antibodies. The answer yo your question, unfortunately, is "it depends" You'd need more testing to see if that's normal for you or not. If not more study to see why you're out of the range.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

I don't disagree it's unusual and i don't tell this story to try and scare or dissuade anyone from vaccination, but this is my reality. It didn't cause an allergic reaction, but more of an autoimmune response (long covid from my body overproducing spike protein, atleast that's the theory for cause).

After my vaccination i was hit with a variety of long covid symptoms from immediate reactions to symptoms that occurred over the course of 5-6 weeks. (I'm not going to publicly get into that, but if you'd like to better understand my experience, diagnostics, treatment you can send a private message and i would be happy to answer questions you might have) If you've seen or are aware of the LISTEN study done by Yale I was a participant in that study. Fast forward 6 months post vaccination and i contracted covid ironically enough at a clinic for long covid. Covid made my symptoms (that were improving a lot by that time) significantly worse, same basic problems just amplified. After 3 years of specialists, family doctors, researchers, poking, prodding, and taking a few treatment risks I'm back to 99.9% of my old self. I've received a pretty luke warm response to telling this story here and in real life, so i mostly keep it to myself. Ultimately i would like to help with this information, but i totally understand why people are hesitant. Anyway, that's the gist of it.

The more you talk about your experience the more it sounds like your immune system suffered from some variation of "antibody dependent enhancement" with these proteins. Have you heard that term before? If not, look it up and read about it a bit and let me know if you have any questions.

Took a quick glance at this and noticed Immunoglobulins are mentioned. I had these tested towards the end of my illness and they were in good range, but a friend I was working with to compare test results had his levels in the tank, particularly IgG. There was no baseline to compare, but do you think there could be a link there? I've also seen people with similar symptoms to me report very low IgE levels. So the follow up question is can these recover or is this a permanent problem?

Immunoglobulin is just another name for antibodies. The answer yo your question, unfortunately, is "it depends" You'd need more testing to see if that's normal for you or not. If not more study to see why you're out of the range.

Let's say there's a baseline and those levels changed for the worse after covid. Would that point to a possible issue with this antibody dependent enhancement? Is this something you could ask your PCP to look for? Or i guess from a testing standpoint how could i confirm or deny this condition? I might have mentioned this here in the other thread, but aside from a couple minor non life affecting quirks I'm left with, the biggest problem i still have is that every 6 months or so i get shingles. They're very mild and I've always had a trigger (push myself really hard physically, or have some kind of serious emotional stress), but still seems more than coincidental. My doctor isn't concerned since there's a trigger each time. I know nobody can diagnose anything over the internet and we're just having a casual conversation, but with what you know about that condition does that track at all? And again for me I've had these tested and was in range, but I've had a lot of things in range and still could barely get out of bed for months.

Getting out of my area of expertise, but I think its done through a series of blood tests. My guess is, you'd have to be infected, they take a blood sample and lots of observations. I'm not sure they could look merely at "levels" but would have to figure out how effective your antibodies are at neutralizing the foreign protein. For example, you might have a ton of antibodies (appropriate levels) but if they aren't effective, who cares? Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

I don't disagree it's unusual and i don't tell this story to try and scare or dissuade anyone from vaccination, but this is my reality. It didn't cause an allergic reaction, but more of an autoimmune response (long covid from my body overproducing spike protein, atleast that's the theory for cause).

After my vaccination i was hit with a variety of long covid symptoms from immediate reactions to symptoms that occurred over the course of 5-6 weeks. (I'm not going to publicly get into that, but if you'd like to better understand my experience, diagnostics, treatment you can send a private message and i would be happy to answer questions you might have) If you've seen or are aware of the LISTEN study done by Yale I was a participant in that study. Fast forward 6 months post vaccination and i contracted covid ironically enough at a clinic for long covid. Covid made my symptoms (that were improving a lot by that time) significantly worse, same basic problems just amplified. After 3 years of specialists, family doctors, researchers, poking, prodding, and taking a few treatment risks I'm back to 99.9% of my old self. I've received a pretty luke warm response to telling this story here and in real life, so i mostly keep it to myself. Ultimately i would like to help with this information, but i totally understand why people are hesitant. Anyway, that's the gist of it.

The more you talk about your experience the more it sounds like your immune system suffered from some variation of "antibody dependent enhancement" with these proteins. Have you heard that term before? If not, look it up and read about it a bit and let me know if you have any questions.

Took a quick glance at this and noticed Immunoglobulins are mentioned. I had these tested towards the end of my illness and they were in good range, but a friend I was working with to compare test results had his levels in the tank, particularly IgG. There was no baseline to compare, but do you think there could be a link there? I've also seen people with similar symptoms to me report very low IgE levels. So the follow up question is can these recover or is this a permanent problem?

Immunoglobulin is just another name for antibodies. The answer yo your question, unfortunately, is "it depends" You'd need more testing to see if that's normal for you or not. If not more study to see why you're out of the range.

Let's say there's a baseline and those levels changed for the worse after covid. Would that point to a possible issue with this antibody dependent enhancement? Is this something you could ask your PCP to look for? Or i guess from a testing standpoint how could i confirm or deny this condition? I might have mentioned this here in the other thread, but aside from a couple minor non life affecting quirks I'm left with, the biggest problem i still have is that every 6 months or so i get shingles. They're very mild and I've always had a trigger (push myself really hard physically, or have some kind of serious emotional stress), but still seems more than coincidental. My doctor isn't concerned since there's a trigger each time. I know nobody can diagnose anything over the internet and we're just having a casual conversation, but with what you know about that condition does that track at all? And again for me I've had these tested and was in range, but I've had a lot of things in range and still could barely get out of bed for months.

This sounds more like an immune deficiency than ADE (an obscure phenomenon which made the rounds in the antivax community, but hasn’t been a problem with covid vaccines, AFAIK).

The virus which causes shingles, varicella zoster, is controlled by multiple arms of the immune system. Frequent reinfection or reactivation in such short intervals is exceedingly rare. Are the rashes occurring in the same area of your body each episode?

I’ll say it again: if you haven’t already done so, I’d seek the opinion of an academic allergist/immunologist.

 

[Battersbox]

It's crazy to me that people can in one breath cheerlead how these miracle vaccines saved millions of lives and in the next breath casually say the cause of millions of other lives being lost or nearly lost really doesn't matter and is only a political exercise.

Millions of people died because of the decisions and neglect of certain people, and many untoward millions more would have if not for the heroics of vaccines.

The fact that many folks in here dismiss the first half of that sentence and only care about the second part of that sentence baffles me.

Can you specify the neglect you mean in the first half or is that political and verboten?

Sure: if you subscribe to the theory that the virus never would have circulated had it not been for the research being conducted at the lab in Wuhan, then by default somebody effed up.

Why in the world would we not care who effed up or why? Why would we not care to examine if the juice was worth the squeeze--i.e., was the research worth it? Is it worth it going forward if something like a pandemic can happen?
I suppose if you think the pandemic happened from natural origins then asking questions about how these vaccines were ever needed is political, but to me the preponderance of evidence suggests somebody effed up and it's insane we aren't asking questions daily.

 

[Bossman]

It's crazy to me that people can in one breath cheerlead how these miracle vaccines saved millions of lives and in the next breath casually say the cause of millions of other lives being lost or nearly lost really doesn't matter and is only a political exercise.

Millions of people died because of the decisions and neglect of certain people, and many untoward millions more would have if not for the heroics of vaccines.

The fact that many folks in here dismiss the first half of that sentence and only care about the second part of that sentence baffles me.

Can you specify the neglect you mean in the first half or is that political and verboten?

Sure: if you subscribe to the theory that the virus never would have circulated had it not been for the research being conducted at the lab in Wuhan, then by default somebody effed up.

Why in the world would we not care who effed up or why? Why would we not care to examine if the juice was worth the squeeze--i.e., was the research worth it? Is it worth it going forward if something like a pandemic can happen?
I suppose if you think the pandemic happened from natural origins then asking questions about how these vaccines were ever needed is political, but to me the preponderance of evidence suggests somebody effed up and it's insane we aren't asking questions daily.

Even if evidence was bulletproof, someone is held accountable, reparations were warranted ... I don't think the Wuhan Clinic, or China, or anyone else is giving money for reparations regardless of what proof you present. There is no juice to justify the squeeze.

 

[AAABatteries]

It's crazy to me that people can in one breath cheerlead how these miracle vaccines saved millions of lives and in the next breath casually say the cause of millions of other lives being lost or nearly lost really doesn't matter and is only a political exercise.

Millions of people died because of the decisions and neglect of certain people, and many untoward millions more would have if not for the heroics of vaccines.

The fact that many folks in here dismiss the first half of that sentence and only care about the second part of that sentence baffles me.

Can you specify the neglect you mean in the first half or is that political and verboten?

Sure: if you subscribe to the theory that the virus never would have circulated had it not been for the research being conducted at the lab in Wuhan, then by default somebody effed up.

Why in the world would we not care who effed up or why? Why would we not care to examine if the juice was worth the squeeze--i.e., was the research worth it? Is it worth it going forward if something like a pandemic can happen?
I suppose if you think the pandemic happened from natural origins then asking questions about how these vaccines were ever needed is political, but to me the preponderance of evidence suggests somebody effed up and it's insane we aren't asking questions daily.

Thanks - I think I misunderstood your post. I get that and agree there needs to be a lot of examination of those protocols.