*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (5 Viewers)

[urbanhack]

Millions of people died because of the decisions and neglect of certain people,

Not sure I understand this. What specifically are you talking about? Talking about out us not giving (donating) the vaccines we weren't going to be using to areas who couldnt afford to vuy them? Stuff like that?

Or certain people down playing the entire pandemic and that it will just magically just go away?

 

[Sparky Polastri]

If the funds aren't there, there's no point in doing any of it. It takes a long time to start from scratch and see results.

This is what kills me. I really don't care about who believes what. If what I believe is wrong I'd like it proved and I can update my thinking and move forward and vice versa. I'm talking purely medically the rest has little interest to me. To withhold or sabotage medical research we so badly need not only for covid, but across the board should be unacceptable to everyone. Speaking for myself i need research into covid/covid vaccine complications to continue or I'm stuck with "bench medicine" and no other path forward as this was already lacking with whatever meager funding was available before. It's great that the work continues in other places, but that still leaves people here behind as doctors aren't going to line up to prescribe treatments that haven't been studied and approved domestically. Brutal.

Can't do much without the funds. Fortunately, it seems the rest of the world gets it. They are vigorously testing the current vaccines to measure effectiveness against the new strains like the one spreading in South Africa. We too did this for all the variants after the strain the vaccines were created for. We took none of it for granted and assumed nothing in terms of effectiveness. We are now being forced to take a very different approach and its going to bite us in the butt at some point.

Here's my dilemma. I can't get the vaccine and i can't get covid. I can mask, but that comes with a unique set of problems I'm sure everyone is aware of. Without research I'm up the creek without a paddle. The typical solutions just won't work for me. "Bench medicine" isn't sufficient for the majority for reasons discussed in another thread (I was willing to take a leap of faith others may not). Probably not a new set of problems for many with other medical needs, but since we're specifically discussing covid here it's all that matters for this thread. It's madness and infuriating to live this way. Talk about a **** sandwich. And now to hear all research is paused I know (reasonably assume anyway) that when/if it starts back up i go right back to the end of the line in terms of covid research. It's an uncommon angle to the covid saga I'll admit that, but staring down the barrel of living this way for "reasons" sucks.

This is "day in the life of...." for autoimmune compromised people. We likely all have this as a possibility in life depending on specific circumstances. I don't say that to diminish your personal position rather to give context. The human body is INCREDIBLY fragile and resilient all at the same time. Why I detoured away from economics and got sucked into biology in the first place.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Millions of people died because of the decisions and neglect of certain people,

Not sure I understand this. What specifically are you talking about? Talking about out us not giving (donating) the vaccines we weren't going to be using to areas who couldnt afford to vuy them? Stuff like that?

Or certain people down playing the entire pandemic and that it will just magically just go away?

To the point that both myself and culdeus made initially, that really has no impact on the science other than timeline for getting the vaccine(s) out to people. And all that is absolutely political. Tread carefully. I got clipped for pointing out a person using a political mouthpiece as their evidence in the economy thread (that was shut down while I was on a TO because of said mouthpiece). The science doesn't care if the virus was found purposefully in a lab or was caught by someone out in nature. The solution/process was going to be the same once known.

 

[AAABatteries]

It's crazy to me that people can in one breath cheerlead how these miracle vaccines saved millions of lives and in the next breath casually say the cause of millions of other lives being lost or nearly lost really doesn't matter and is only a political exercise.

Millions of people died because of the decisions and neglect of certain people, and many untoward millions more would have if not for the heroics of vaccines.

The fact that many folks in here dismiss the first half of that sentence and only care about the second part of that sentence baffles me.

Can you specify the neglect you mean in the first half or is that political and verboten?

 

[Sparky Polastri]

If the funds aren't there, there's no point in doing any of it. It takes a long time to start from scratch and see results.

This is what kills me. I really don't care about who believes what. If what I believe is wrong I'd like it proved and I can update my thinking and move forward and vice versa. I'm talking purely medically the rest has little interest to me. To withhold or sabotage medical research we so badly need not only for covid, but across the board should be unacceptable to everyone. Speaking for myself i need research into covid/covid vaccine complications to continue or I'm stuck with "bench medicine" and no other path forward as this was already lacking with whatever meager funding was available before. It's great that the work continues in other places, but that still leaves people here behind as doctors aren't going to line up to prescribe treatments that haven't been studied and approved domestically. Brutal.

Can't do much without the funds. Fortunately, it seems the rest of the world gets it. They are vigorously testing the current vaccines to measure effectiveness against the new strains like the one spreading in South Africa. We too did this for all the variants after the strain the vaccines were created for. We took none of it for granted and assumed nothing in terms of effectiveness. We are now being forced to take a very different approach and its going to bite us in the butt at some point.

Here's my dilemma. I can't get the vaccine and i can't get covid. I can mask, but that comes with a unique set of problems I'm sure everyone is aware of. Without research I'm up the creek without a paddle. The typical solutions just won't work for me. "Bench medicine" isn't sufficient for the majority for reasons discussed in another thread (I was willing to take a leap of faith others may not). Probably not a new set of problems for many with other medical needs, but since we're specifically discussing covid here it's all that matters for this thread. It's madness and infuriating to live this way. Talk about a **** sandwich. And now to hear all research is paused I know (reasonably assume anyway) that when/if it starts back up i go right back to the end of the line in terms of covid research. It's an uncommon angle to the covid saga I'll admit that, but staring down the barrel of living this way for "reasons" sucks.

This is "day in the life of...." for autoimmune compromised people. We likely all have this as a possibility in life depending on specific circumstances. I don't say that to diminish your personal position rather to give context. The human body is INCREDIBLY fragile and resilient all at the same time. Why I detoured away from economics and got sucked into biology in the first place.

I agree. I mentioned it in my post, but that my experience is specific to the thread in comparison.

I'll say this, I got a taste of what it's like to walk in their shoes and it was eye opening what people go through. I really had no idea. I'm better now, but knowing it could happen again isn't a great feeling.

Could also be that you don't react the same way so you've got that going for you, which is nice.

 

[Terminalxylem]

If the funds aren't there, there's no point in doing any of it. It takes a long time to start from scratch and see results.

This is what kills me. I really don't care about who believes what. If what I believe is wrong I'd like it proved and I can update my thinking and move forward and vice versa. I'm talking purely medically the rest has little interest to me. To withhold or sabotage medical research we so badly need not only for covid, but across the board should be unacceptable to everyone. Speaking for myself i need research into covid/covid vaccine complications to continue or I'm stuck with "bench medicine" and no other path forward as this was already lacking with whatever meager funding was available before. It's great that the work continues in other places, but that still leaves people here behind as doctors aren't going to line up to prescribe treatments that haven't been studied and approved domestically. Brutal.

Can't do much without the funds. Fortunately, it seems the rest of the world gets it. They are vigorously testing the current vaccines to measure effectiveness against the new strains like the one spreading in South Africa. We too did this for all the variants after the strain the vaccines were created for. We took none of it for granted and assumed nothing in terms of effectiveness. We are now being forced to take a very different approach and its going to bite us in the butt at some point.

Here's my dilemma. I can't get the vaccine and i can't get covid. I can mask, but that comes with a unique set of problems I'm sure everyone is aware of. Without research I'm up the creek without a paddle. The typical solutions just won't work for me. "Bench medicine" isn't sufficient for the majority for reasons discussed in another thread (I was willing to take a leap of faith others may not). Probably not a new set of problems for many with other medical needs, but since we're specifically discussing covid here it's all that matters for this thread. It's madness and infuriating to live this way. Talk about a **** sandwich. And now to hear all research is paused I know (reasonably assume anyway) that when/if it starts back up i go right back to the end of the line in terms of covid research. It's an uncommon angle to the covid saga I'll admit that, but staring down the barrel of living this way for "reasons" sucks.

Can you elaborate here?

I can't think of a single medical condition which precludes the use of all covid vaccines (mRNA and Novavax) and/or makes covid such a threat to one's health, yet isn't worth dealing with the "problems" inherent to non-pharmaceutical interventions.

 

[fatness]

Out with the truth. All of it. The question is whether people are really going to listen in the end to the truth and not to a version of the truth that fits their preconceived notions. If you read the article I linked, a vaccine skeptic commissions an anti-vaccination guy who has lost his medical license and has not told the truth about the efficacy of vaccines to head the study into the vaccine/autism link. That link has been discredited so many times yet rears its head like the hydra every time in public conversation. As the quote to close the article intones, they know the outcome they want to reach and they're cherry picking so that the data satisfies their conclusion. That's not science when the mRNA backers do it; and it certainly isn't when the other side does out of some erroneous and faulty sense of accountability/liability and justice.

Thanks for emphasizing that link's contents again. That "study" he's conducting has the potential to kill people through distorting information.

 

[rockaction]

Thanks for emphasizing that link's contents again. That "study" he's conducting has the potential to kill people through distorting information.

Thanks for posting it the first time.

 

[fatness]

The entire staff of the federal government's Office of Infectious Disease and HIV/AIDS Policy is expected to be laid off, multiple federal health officials told CBS News Friday. The moves are part of a broader restructuring plan ordered by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that involves cutting 20,000 HHS positions. Much of the government's efforts to buoy lagging childhood vaccination rates nationwide have been run through OIDP, including a new campaign called "Let's Get Real" that had launched in the final months of the Biden administration to provide resources and information to health care providers talking to hesitant parents. "Spreading the truth saves lives, so use our resources to help parents understand how vaccines work, why they're safe, and how they help protect kids," the department had said of the campaign after it was launched.

The National Vaccine Program has also been run by OIDP, which works with an advisory committee to coordinate the department's agencies to develop vaccines, oversee their safety and increase their availability and use. Other initiatives overseen by OIDP include the Ending the HIV Epidemic in the U.S. program, which was launched by President Trump during his first term. It is unclear what will happen to those initiatives, which Congress had approved funding for.

RFK Jr. to gut vaccine promotion and HIV prevention office, sources say​

 

[Ilov80s]

Out with the truth. All of it. The question is whether people are really going to listen in the end to the truth and not to a version of the truth that fits their preconceived notions. If you read the article I linked, a vaccine skeptic commissions an anti-vaccination guy who has lost his medical license and has not told the truth about the efficacy of vaccines to head the study into the vaccine/autism link. That link has been discredited so many times yet rears its head like the hydra every time in public conversation. As the quote to close the article intones, they know the outcome they want to reach and they're cherry picking so that the data satisfies their conclusion. That's not science when the mRNA backers do it; and it certainly isn't when the other side does out of some erroneous and faulty sense of accountability/liability and justice.

Thanks for emphasizing that link's contents again. That "study" he's conducting has the potential to kill people through distorting information.

Meanwhile there are links between air pollution and autism. So if you wanted to actually seriously tackle this it would be tightening air cleanliness standards but it does seem we are on a path to allow for increased emissions. Is this stupidity? Ulterior motives?

From a personal level I sort of understand because as a mom what can I do for my kid about air pollution? I can control if my child is vaccinated or not which gives me (the illusion of) power. Also if your child has autism and you want to blame someone or something, a narrative has been set and there’s a community to be part. That doesn’t exist for air pollution and the links aren’t concrete nor have they been given the platform that vaccinations have. Still I think we should be working towards a community of people who seek the truth and not comfort or emotional convenience when talking about medical issues of this magnitude.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

 

[Desert_Power]

The entire staff of the federal government's Office of Infectious Disease and HIV/AIDS Policy is expected to be laid off, multiple federal health officials told CBS News Friday. The moves are part of a broader restructuring plan ordered by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that involves cutting 20,000 HHS positions. Much of the government's efforts to buoy lagging childhood vaccination rates nationwide have been run through OIDP, including a new campaign called "Let's Get Real" that had launched in the final months of the Biden administration to provide resources and information to health care providers talking to hesitant parents. "Spreading the truth saves lives, so use our resources to help parents understand how vaccines work, why they're safe, and how they help protect kids," the department had said of the campaign after it was launched.

The National Vaccine Program has also been run by OIDP, which works with an advisory committee to coordinate the department's agencies to develop vaccines, oversee their safety and increase their availability and use. Other initiatives overseen by OIDP include the Ending the HIV Epidemic in the U.S. program, which was launched by President Trump during his first term. It is unclear what will happen to those initiatives, which Congress had approved funding for.

RFK Jr. to gut vaccine promotion and HIV prevention office, sources say​

This doesn't seem wise.

 

[rockaction]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

I don't disagree it's unusual and i don't tell this story to try and scare or dissuade anyone from vaccination, but this is my reality. It didn't cause an allergic reaction, but more of an autoimmune response (long covid from my body overproducing spike protein, atleast that's the theory for cause).

After my vaccination i was hit with a variety of long covid symptoms from immediate reactions to symptoms that occurred over the course of 5-6 weeks. (I'm not going to publicly get into that, but if you'd like to better understand my experience, diagnostics, treatment you can send a private message and i would be happy to answer questions you might have) If you've seen or are aware of the LISTEN study done by Yale I was a participant in that study. Fast forward 6 months post vaccination and i contracted covid ironically enough at a clinic for long covid. Covid made my symptoms (that were improving a lot by that time) significantly worse, same basic problems just amplified. After 3 years of specialists, family doctors, researchers, poking, prodding, and taking a few treatment risks I'm back to 99.9% of my old self. I've received a pretty luke warm response to telling this story here and in real life, so i mostly keep it to myself. Ultimately i would like to help with this information, but i totally understand why people are hesitant. Anyway, that's the gist of it.

Must be tough to be the bearer of unwanted news about a topic as politicized and emotional as this one. Especially when it's about something people can't possibly know about or validate, and it's your health and well-being that's been compromised. Welp, kudos to you for saying something and staying patient through the long haul of long covid symptoms, and also for being a patient for the long haul, it seems. Best to you, Longtime Lurker. Hope your issues get fully resolved.

I do indeed feel for you and believe you. That's an awful position to be in.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

I don't disagree it's unusual and i don't tell this story to try and scare or dissuade anyone from vaccination, but this is my reality. It didn't cause an allergic reaction, but more of an autoimmune response (long covid from my body overproducing spike protein, atleast that's the theory for cause).

After my vaccination i was hit with a variety of long covid symptoms from immediate reactions to symptoms that occurred over the course of 5-6 weeks. (I'm not going to publicly get into that, but if you'd like to better understand my experience, diagnostics, treatment you can send a private message and i would be happy to answer questions you might have) If you've seen or are aware of the LISTEN study done by Yale I was a participant in that study. Fast forward 6 months post vaccination and i contracted covid ironically enough at a clinic for long covid. Covid made my symptoms (that were improving a lot by that time) significantly worse, same basic problems just amplified. After 3 years of specialists, family doctors, researchers, poking, prodding, and taking a few treatment risks I'm back to 99.9% of my old self. I've received a pretty luke warm response to telling this story here and in real life, so i mostly keep it to myself. Ultimately i would like to help with this information, but i totally understand why people are hesitant. Anyway, that's the gist of it.

The more you talk about your experience the more it sounds like your immune system suffered from some variation of "antibody dependent enhancement" with these proteins. Have you heard that term before? If not, look it up and read about it a bit and let me know if you have any questions.

 

[JAA]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

I don't disagree it's unusual and i don't tell this story to try and scare or dissuade anyone from vaccination, but this is my reality. It didn't cause an allergic reaction, but more of an autoimmune response (long covid from my body overproducing spike protein, atleast that's the theory for cause).

After my vaccination i was hit with a variety of long covid symptoms from immediate reactions to symptoms that occurred over the course of 5-6 weeks. (I'm not going to publicly get into that, but if you'd like to better understand my experience, diagnostics, treatment you can send a private message and i would be happy to answer questions you might have) If you've seen or are aware of the LISTEN study done by Yale I was a participant in that study. Fast forward 6 months post vaccination and i contracted covid ironically enough at a clinic for long covid. Covid made my symptoms (that were improving a lot by that time) significantly worse, same basic problems just amplified. After 3 years of specialists, family doctors, researchers, poking, prodding, and taking a few treatment risks I'm back to 99.9% of my old self. I've received a pretty luke warm response to telling this story here and in real life, so i mostly keep it to myself. Ultimately i would like to help with this information, but i totally understand why people are hesitant. Anyway, that's the gist of it.

Must be tough to be the bearer of unwanted news about a topic as politicized and emotional as this one. Especially when it's about something people can't possibly know about or validate, and it's your health and well-being that's been compromised. Welp, kudos to you for saying something and staying patient through the long haul of long covid symptoms, and also for being a patient for the long haul, it seems. Best to you, Longtime Lurker. Hope your issues get fully resolved.

I do indeed feel for you and believe you. That's an awful position to be in.

Very kind of you to say and i really do appreciate it, internet stranger or not.

I hate to get to into the details and derail what has been a pretty good conversation, but you summarized the experience pretty well. The unknown and physical symptoms were bad enough, but the social aspect is another unwanted layer to contend with. I don't talk about any of it with friends and hardly at all with family outside of my wife. I'm VERY happy to say I'm recovered/remission and am back to my normal life, so even if it were to happen to someone (I think it's pretty rare how it happened to me, but long covid from infection can happen and i think most people understand that part) recovery is very possible and seems likely for most if the unfortunate were to happen.

Glad to hear you are doing well

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

I don't disagree it's unusual and i don't tell this story to try and scare or dissuade anyone from vaccination, but this is my reality. It didn't cause an allergic reaction, but more of an autoimmune response (long covid from my body overproducing spike protein, atleast that's the theory for cause).

After my vaccination i was hit with a variety of long covid symptoms from immediate reactions to symptoms that occurred over the course of 5-6 weeks. (I'm not going to publicly get into that, but if you'd like to better understand my experience, diagnostics, treatment you can send a private message and i would be happy to answer questions you might have) If you've seen or are aware of the LISTEN study done by Yale I was a participant in that study. Fast forward 6 months post vaccination and i contracted covid ironically enough at a clinic for long covid. Covid made my symptoms (that were improving a lot by that time) significantly worse, same basic problems just amplified. After 3 years of specialists, family doctors, researchers, poking, prodding, and taking a few treatment risks I'm back to 99.9% of my old self. I've received a pretty luke warm response to telling this story here and in real life, so i mostly keep it to myself. Ultimately i would like to help with this information, but i totally understand why people are hesitant. Anyway, that's the gist of it.

The more you talk about your experience the more it sounds like your immune system suffered from some variation of "antibody dependent enhancement" with these proteins. Have you heard that term before? If not, look it up and read about it a bit and let me know if you have any questions.

Took a quick glance at this and noticed Immunoglobulins are mentioned. I had these tested towards the end of my illness and they were in good range, but a friend I was working with to compare test results had his levels in the tank, particularly IgG. There was no baseline to compare, but do you think there could be a link there? I've also seen people with similar symptoms to me report very low IgE levels. So the follow up question is can these recover or is this a permanent problem?

Immunoglobulin is just another name for antibodies. The answer yo your question, unfortunately, is "it depends" You'd need more testing to see if that's normal for you or not. If not more study to see why you're out of the range.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

I don't disagree it's unusual and i don't tell this story to try and scare or dissuade anyone from vaccination, but this is my reality. It didn't cause an allergic reaction, but more of an autoimmune response (long covid from my body overproducing spike protein, atleast that's the theory for cause).

After my vaccination i was hit with a variety of long covid symptoms from immediate reactions to symptoms that occurred over the course of 5-6 weeks. (I'm not going to publicly get into that, but if you'd like to better understand my experience, diagnostics, treatment you can send a private message and i would be happy to answer questions you might have) If you've seen or are aware of the LISTEN study done by Yale I was a participant in that study. Fast forward 6 months post vaccination and i contracted covid ironically enough at a clinic for long covid. Covid made my symptoms (that were improving a lot by that time) significantly worse, same basic problems just amplified. After 3 years of specialists, family doctors, researchers, poking, prodding, and taking a few treatment risks I'm back to 99.9% of my old self. I've received a pretty luke warm response to telling this story here and in real life, so i mostly keep it to myself. Ultimately i would like to help with this information, but i totally understand why people are hesitant. Anyway, that's the gist of it.

The more you talk about your experience the more it sounds like your immune system suffered from some variation of "antibody dependent enhancement" with these proteins. Have you heard that term before? If not, look it up and read about it a bit and let me know if you have any questions.

Took a quick glance at this and noticed Immunoglobulins are mentioned. I had these tested towards the end of my illness and they were in good range, but a friend I was working with to compare test results had his levels in the tank, particularly IgG. There was no baseline to compare, but do you think there could be a link there? I've also seen people with similar symptoms to me report very low IgE levels. So the follow up question is can these recover or is this a permanent problem?

Immunoglobulin is just another name for antibodies. The answer yo your question, unfortunately, is "it depends" You'd need more testing to see if that's normal for you or not. If not more study to see why you're out of the range.

Let's say there's a baseline and those levels changed for the worse after covid. Would that point to a possible issue with this antibody dependent enhancement? Is this something you could ask your PCP to look for? Or i guess from a testing standpoint how could i confirm or deny this condition? I might have mentioned this here in the other thread, but aside from a couple minor non life affecting quirks I'm left with, the biggest problem i still have is that every 6 months or so i get shingles. They're very mild and I've always had a trigger (push myself really hard physically, or have some kind of serious emotional stress), but still seems more than coincidental. My doctor isn't concerned since there's a trigger each time. I know nobody can diagnose anything over the internet and we're just having a casual conversation, but with what you know about that condition does that track at all? And again for me I've had these tested and was in range, but I've had a lot of things in range and still could barely get out of bed for months.

Getting out of my area of expertise, but I think its done through a series of blood tests. My guess is, you'd have to be infected, they take a blood sample and lots of observations. I'm not sure they could look merely at "levels" but would have to figure out how effective your antibodies are at neutralizing the foreign protein. For example, you might have a ton of antibodies (appropriate levels) but if they aren't effective, who cares? Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Got post vaccination issues that were confirmed by multiple doctors and also got long covid from an infection about 6 months later. I've been advised to not get anymore vaccines not because I'm against vaccines, but apparently my body can't handle spike protein in any form which also makes getting an infection equally risky. Ofcourse I do mask when necessary, but in the current "climate" it can be uncomfortable for non medical and or comfort reasons. So i guess those are my medical reasons for being unable, not unwilling to get covid vaccines. I would most likely be fine getting mRNA or other vaccines for anything other than covid (again it's the spike protein and not the mRNA tech that my body reacts to and I've never had any issues with previous vaccinations). I did get 3 moderna shots before i had issues and why it's a **** sandwich I find myself in. I hope that clears it up

This is extremely unusual for a serious adverse reaction to vaccines. Typically it’s immediate, like hives or anaphylaxis, or delayed up to a day or two for delayed hypersensitivity reactions. If you haven’t already done so, I’d see a board certified allergist to confirm your hypersensitivity.

I don't disagree it's unusual and i don't tell this story to try and scare or dissuade anyone from vaccination, but this is my reality. It didn't cause an allergic reaction, but more of an autoimmune response (long covid from my body overproducing spike protein, atleast that's the theory for cause).

After my vaccination i was hit with a variety of long covid symptoms from immediate reactions to symptoms that occurred over the course of 5-6 weeks. (I'm not going to publicly get into that, but if you'd like to better understand my experience, diagnostics, treatment you can send a private message and i would be happy to answer questions you might have) If you've seen or are aware of the LISTEN study done by Yale I was a participant in that study. Fast forward 6 months post vaccination and i contracted covid ironically enough at a clinic for long covid. Covid made my symptoms (that were improving a lot by that time) significantly worse, same basic problems just amplified. After 3 years of specialists, family doctors, researchers, poking, prodding, and taking a few treatment risks I'm back to 99.9% of my old self. I've received a pretty luke warm response to telling this story here and in real life, so i mostly keep it to myself. Ultimately i would like to help with this information, but i totally understand why people are hesitant. Anyway, that's the gist of it.

The more you talk about your experience the more it sounds like your immune system suffered from some variation of "antibody dependent enhancement" with these proteins. Have you heard that term before? If not, look it up and read about it a bit and let me know if you have any questions.

Took a quick glance at this and noticed Immunoglobulins are mentioned. I had these tested towards the end of my illness and they were in good range, but a friend I was working with to compare test results had his levels in the tank, particularly IgG. There was no baseline to compare, but do you think there could be a link there? I've also seen people with similar symptoms to me report very low IgE levels. So the follow up question is can these recover or is this a permanent problem?

Immunoglobulin is just another name for antibodies. The answer yo your question, unfortunately, is "it depends" You'd need more testing to see if that's normal for you or not. If not more study to see why you're out of the range.

Let's say there's a baseline and those levels changed for the worse after covid. Would that point to a possible issue with this antibody dependent enhancement? Is this something you could ask your PCP to look for? Or i guess from a testing standpoint how could i confirm or deny this condition? I might have mentioned this here in the other thread, but aside from a couple minor non life affecting quirks I'm left with, the biggest problem i still have is that every 6 months or so i get shingles. They're very mild and I've always had a trigger (push myself really hard physically, or have some kind of serious emotional stress), but still seems more than coincidental. My doctor isn't concerned since there's a trigger each time. I know nobody can diagnose anything over the internet and we're just having a casual conversation, but with what you know about that condition does that track at all? And again for me I've had these tested and was in range, but I've had a lot of things in range and still could barely get out of bed for months.

This sounds more like an immune deficiency than ADE (an obscure phenomenon which made the rounds in the antivax community, but hasn’t been a problem with covid vaccines, AFAIK).

The virus which causes shingles, varicella zoster, is controlled by multiple arms of the immune system. Frequent reinfection or reactivation in such short intervals is exceedingly rare. Are the rashes occurring in the same area of your body each episode?

I’ll say it again: if you haven’t already done so, I’d seek the opinion of an academic allergist/immunologist.

 

[Battersbox]

It's crazy to me that people can in one breath cheerlead how these miracle vaccines saved millions of lives and in the next breath casually say the cause of millions of other lives being lost or nearly lost really doesn't matter and is only a political exercise.

Millions of people died because of the decisions and neglect of certain people, and many untoward millions more would have if not for the heroics of vaccines.

The fact that many folks in here dismiss the first half of that sentence and only care about the second part of that sentence baffles me.

Can you specify the neglect you mean in the first half or is that political and verboten?

Sure: if you subscribe to the theory that the virus never would have circulated had it not been for the research being conducted at the lab in Wuhan, then by default somebody effed up.

Why in the world would we not care who effed up or why? Why would we not care to examine if the juice was worth the squeeze--i.e., was the research worth it? Is it worth it going forward if something like a pandemic can happen?
I suppose if you think the pandemic happened from natural origins then asking questions about how these vaccines were ever needed is political, but to me the preponderance of evidence suggests somebody effed up and it's insane we aren't asking questions daily.

 

[Bossman]

It's crazy to me that people can in one breath cheerlead how these miracle vaccines saved millions of lives and in the next breath casually say the cause of millions of other lives being lost or nearly lost really doesn't matter and is only a political exercise.

Millions of people died because of the decisions and neglect of certain people, and many untoward millions more would have if not for the heroics of vaccines.

The fact that many folks in here dismiss the first half of that sentence and only care about the second part of that sentence baffles me.

Can you specify the neglect you mean in the first half or is that political and verboten?

Sure: if you subscribe to the theory that the virus never would have circulated had it not been for the research being conducted at the lab in Wuhan, then by default somebody effed up.

Why in the world would we not care who effed up or why? Why would we not care to examine if the juice was worth the squeeze--i.e., was the research worth it? Is it worth it going forward if something like a pandemic can happen?
I suppose if you think the pandemic happened from natural origins then asking questions about how these vaccines were ever needed is political, but to me the preponderance of evidence suggests somebody effed up and it's insane we aren't asking questions daily.

Even if evidence was bulletproof, someone is held accountable, reparations were warranted ... I don't think the Wuhan Clinic, or China, or anyone else is giving money for reparations regardless of what proof you present. There is no juice to justify the squeeze.

 

[AAABatteries]

It's crazy to me that people can in one breath cheerlead how these miracle vaccines saved millions of lives and in the next breath casually say the cause of millions of other lives being lost or nearly lost really doesn't matter and is only a political exercise.

Millions of people died because of the decisions and neglect of certain people, and many untoward millions more would have if not for the heroics of vaccines.

The fact that many folks in here dismiss the first half of that sentence and only care about the second part of that sentence baffles me.

Can you specify the neglect you mean in the first half or is that political and verboten?

Sure: if you subscribe to the theory that the virus never would have circulated had it not been for the research being conducted at the lab in Wuhan, then by default somebody effed up.

Why in the world would we not care who effed up or why? Why would we not care to examine if the juice was worth the squeeze--i.e., was the research worth it? Is it worth it going forward if something like a pandemic can happen?
I suppose if you think the pandemic happened from natural origins then asking questions about how these vaccines were ever needed is political, but to me the preponderance of evidence suggests somebody effed up and it's insane we aren't asking questions daily.

Thanks - I think I misunderstood your post. I get that and agree there needs to be a lot of examination of those protocols.

 

[fatness]

The Department of Health and Human Services will cancel contracts and pull funding for some vaccines that are being developed to fight respiratory viruses like COVID-19 and the flu.

The shelving of the mRNA projects is short-sighted as concerns about a bird flu pandemic continue to loom, said Dr. Paul Offit, a vaccine expert at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. It’s certainly saved millions of lives,” Offit said of the existing mRNA vaccines. Scientists are using mRNA for more than infectious disease vaccines, with researchers around the world exploring its use for cancer immunotherapies. At the White House earlier this year, billionaire tech entrepreneur Larry Ellison praised mRNA for its potential to treat cancer.

Traditionally, vaccines have required growing pieces of viruses, often in chicken eggs or giant vats of cells, then purifying that material. The mRNA approach starts with a snippet of genetic code that carries instructions for making proteins. Scientists pick the protein to target, inject that blueprint and the body makes just enough to trigger immune protection — producing its own vaccine dose.

In a statement Tuesday, HHS said “other uses of mRNA technology within the department are not impacted by this announcement.” The mRNA technology is used in approved COVID-19 and RSV shots, but has not yet been approved for a flu shot. Moderna, which was studying a combination COVID-19 and flu mRNA shot, had said it believed mRNA could speed up production of flu shots compared with traditional vaccines.

The abandoned mRNA projects signal a “shift in vaccine development priorities,” the health department said in its statement, adding that it will start “investing in better solutions.”

“Let me be absolutely clear, HHS supports safe, effective vaccines for every American who wants them,” Kennedy said in the statement. Speaking hours later Tuesday at a news conference in Anchorage, Alaska, alongside the state’s two Republican U.S. senators, Kennedy said work is underway on an alternative. He said a “universal vaccine” that mimics “natural immunity” is the administration’s focus. “It could be effective — we believe it’s going to be effective -- against not only coronaviruses, but also flu,” he said.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Gross, but not unexpected.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

In situations like this, you ALWAYS follow the actions over the words. ALWAYS!

If we wanted safe/effective vaccines for every American we wouldn't be taking money away from producing/developing them.

 

[fatness]

Pfizer Covid vaccine for young children may not be renewed by FDA

Pfizer’s Covid vaccine for young children may not be renewed by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) this fall, prompting Moderna to fill possible gaps in supply, according to an email obtained by the Guardian. The move would pull the only remaining Covid vaccine for all children under five from the market.

The Moderna vaccine is only approved for children with one or more health conditions, and the pediatric Covid vaccine from Novavax is only available for children aged 12 and up with health conditions. “It certainly would create a hole in the availability of vaccines,” said Georges Benjamin, executive director of the American Public Health Association. “And to do it this late in the season – I think clearly it’s inappropriate.”

According to an email from the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases (NCIRD), Pfizer said the FDA recently informed the pharmaceutical company that it may not renew the emergency use authorization for its pediatric Covid vaccine for the 2025 respiratory season. The email was sent on Friday to state and local vaccination grantees. The Pfizer vaccine is given to children between the ages of six months and four years. Pfizer expects its Covid vaccine for children aged five to 11 to be fully licensed this fall, the email said.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is “in discussions” with Moderna about rapidly increasing its Covid vaccine supply for young children, according to the email. That includes internal planning about volume, timing, and potential supply gaps.

 

[JohnnyU]

Still wearing masks?

 

[3C's]

The Department of Health and Human Services will cancel contracts and pull funding for some vaccines that are being developed to fight respiratory viruses like COVID-19 and the flu.

The shelving of the mRNA projects is short-sighted as concerns about a bird flu pandemic continue to loom, said Dr. Paul Offit, a vaccine expert at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. It’s certainly saved millions of lives,” Offit said of the existing mRNA vaccines. Scientists are using mRNA for more than infectious disease vaccines, with researchers around the world exploring its use for cancer immunotherapies. At the White House earlier this year, billionaire tech entrepreneur Larry Ellison praised mRNA for its potential to treat cancer.

Traditionally, vaccines have required growing pieces of viruses, often in chicken eggs or giant vats of cells, then purifying that material. The mRNA approach starts with a snippet of genetic code that carries instructions for making proteins. Scientists pick the protein to target, inject that blueprint and the body makes just enough to trigger immune protection — producing its own vaccine dose.

In a statement Tuesday, HHS said “other uses of mRNA technology within the department are not impacted by this announcement.” The mRNA technology is used in approved COVID-19 and RSV shots, but has not yet been approved for a flu shot. Moderna, which was studying a combination COVID-19 and flu mRNA shot, had said it believed mRNA could speed up production of flu shots compared with traditional vaccines.

The abandoned mRNA projects signal a “shift in vaccine development priorities,” the health department said in its statement, adding that it will start “investing in better solutions.”

“Let me be absolutely clear, HHS supports safe, effective vaccines for every American who wants them,” Kennedy said in the statement. Speaking hours later Tuesday at a news conference in Anchorage, Alaska, alongside the state’s two Republican U.S. senators, Kennedy said work is underway on an alternative. He said a “universal vaccine” that mimics “natural immunity” is the administration’s focus. “It could be effective — we believe it’s going to be effective -- against not only coronaviruses, but also flu,” he said.

This

 

[3C's]

Still wearing masks?

Might hit a Bucees soon, thinking about it.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Still wearing masks?

In the hospital, yes. Otherwise, I limit it to when I’m sick. My wife is more careful, typically wearing it around her father in tight quarters.

 

[fatness]

Still wearing masks?

With the wildfire smoke, yep.

 

[gianmarco]

Still wearing masks?

With the wildfire smoke, yep.

For Halloween, yep.

 

[DocHolliday]

Still wearing masks?

Only when I am in my car alone.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Is there a reason my asking what the rationale is behind not renewing the emergency auth got deleted?

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Is there a reason my asking what the rationale is behind not renewing the emergency auth got deleted?

Genuine question. Why still emergency authorization? Is that for new use mRNA vaccines or still the covid variety?

Edit. If this is touchy here, or political a DM is OK.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Is there a reason my asking what the rationale is behind not renewing the emergency auth got deleted?

Genuine question. Why still emergency authorization? Is that for new use mRNA vaccines or still the covid variety?

Edit. If this is touchy here, or political a DM is OK.

Because the government is dragging its feet. That's not new or unique to this situation. The govt has successfully convinced a lot of people that extended timeliness is analogous with being "safe"

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Interesting tidbit here. Based on the actions, it appears this admin doesn't consider pregnancy to be a "high risk" condition. THAT would be unique to this group in charge.

 

[Max Power]

Is there a reason my asking what the rationale is behind not renewing the emergency auth got deleted?

Genuine question. Why still emergency authorization? Is that for new use mRNA vaccines or still the covid variety?

Edit. If this is touchy here, or political a DM is OK.

Because they aren't fully FDA approved for 12 and below and change their formulation yearly.

The debate should be if we're still in an emergency... which current mortality rates for children are at a fraction of a percent.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Is there a reason my asking what the rationale is behind not renewing the emergency auth got deleted?

Genuine question. Why still emergency authorization? Is that for new use mRNA vaccines or still the covid variety?

Edit. If this is touchy here, or political a DM is OK.

Because they aren't fully FDA approved for 12 and below and change their formulation yearly.

The debate should be if we're still in an emergency... which current mortality rates for children are at a fraction of a percent.

Well, this was my thinking too. EUA presents unintended (maybe intended) consequences. Sentiment seems to be that we aren't in an emergency and that the beta test was deemed safe and effective. Which is why I'm asking myself why aren't they fully FDA approved? After 4 years of promoting something as safe approval should be a slam dunk and if it's not then why not? Seems logical to question the message when the action doesn't align. Masterclass in losing trust imo.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Is there a reason my asking what the rationale is behind not renewing the emergency auth got deleted?

Genuine question. Why still emergency authorization? Is that for new use mRNA vaccines or still the covid variety?

Edit. If this is touchy here, or political a DM is OK.

Because they aren't fully FDA approved for 12 and below and change their formulation yearly.

The debate should be if we're still in an emergency... which current mortality rates for children are at a fraction of a percent.

Well, this was my thinking too. EUA presents unintended (maybe intended) consequences. Sentiment seems to be that we aren't in an emergency and that the beta test was deemed safe and effective. Which is why I'm asking myself why aren't they fully FDA approved? After 4 years of promoting something as safe approval should be a slam dunk and if it's not then why not? Seems logical to question the message when the action doesn't align. Masterclass in losing trust imo.

There is no evidence based reason that these should still be emergency use status. At this point they are the most widely tested vaccines we have ever experienced in our lifetimes and adjusting for strands/spike proteins (like we do for flu and the like every year) has minimal impact.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Is there a reason my asking what the rationale is behind not renewing the emergency auth got deleted?

Genuine question. Why still emergency authorization? Is that for new use mRNA vaccines or still the covid variety?

Edit. If this is touchy here, or political a DM is OK.

Because the government is dragging its feet. That's not new or unique to this situation. The govt has successfully convinced a lot of people that extended timeliness is analogous with being "safe"

Who are the people they're convincing an EUA is analogous with safe?

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Is there a reason my asking what the rationale is behind not renewing the emergency auth got deleted?

Genuine question. Why still emergency authorization? Is that for new use mRNA vaccines or still the covid variety?

Edit. If this is touchy here, or political a DM is OK.

Because they aren't fully FDA approved for 12 and below and change their formulation yearly.

The debate should be if we're still in an emergency... which current mortality rates for children are at a fraction of a percent.

Well, this was my thinking too. EUA presents unintended (maybe intended) consequences. Sentiment seems to be that we aren't in an emergency and that the beta test was deemed safe and effective. Which is why I'm asking myself why aren't they fully FDA approved? After 4 years of promoting something as safe approval should be a slam dunk and if it's not then why not? Seems logical to question the message when the action doesn't align. Masterclass in losing trust imo.

There is no evidence based reason that these should still be emergency use status. At this point they are the most widely tested vaccines we have ever experienced in our lifetimes and adjusting for strands/spike proteins (like we do for flu and the like every year) has minimal impact.

Agree. It seems ridiculous.

 

[Max Power]

Is there a reason my asking what the rationale is behind not renewing the emergency auth got deleted?

Genuine question. Why still emergency authorization? Is that for new use mRNA vaccines or still the covid variety?

Edit. If this is touchy here, or political a DM is OK.

Because they aren't fully FDA approved for 12 and below and change their formulation yearly.

The debate should be if we're still in an emergency... which current mortality rates for children are at a fraction of a percent.

Well, this was my thinking too. EUA presents unintended (maybe intended) consequences. Sentiment seems to be that we aren't in an emergency and that the beta test was deemed safe and effective. Which is why I'm asking myself why aren't they fully FDA approved? After 4 years of promoting something as safe approval should be a slam dunk and if it's not then why not? Seems logical to question the message when the action doesn't align. Masterclass in losing trust imo.

I think its just the FDA process. IIRC they are supposed to review 3 years of safety data for full FDA approval. Since each year brings a different covid threat, they alter the formula to protect against the current strain and restart the 3 year process.

Healthy Kids 12 and below aren't at real risk of dying of covid and part of the EUA conditional approval is that the reward outweighs the risk. We're still debating what the "risk" of the vaccine is.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Is there a reason my asking what the rationale is behind not renewing the emergency auth got deleted?

Genuine question. Why still emergency authorization? Is that for new use mRNA vaccines or still the covid variety?

Edit. If this is touchy here, or political a DM is OK.

Because the government is dragging its feet. That's not new or unique to this situation. The govt has successfully convinced a lot of people that extended timeliness is analogous with being "safe"

Who are the people they're convincing a EUA is analogous with safe?

Not what I said. If you go through the threads here, you will often see comments like "this is happening to fast" and the like. The initial formulas for this vaccine was formulated within the first two weeks of the crisis. The dose took another two weeks. That's fairly standard with most vaccines for viruses like this. Most of the rest of the time is political beuracracy. Again, not unique to this vaccine. Two things are unique to this vaccine. The first was the success rate of stopping the initial virus strands. That is an unheard of number for viruses like this. The second is the ingredient list being the first of its kind and the most natural of any vaccine ever reducing further the risk to us. Didn't have to worry about aluminum or mercury or formaldehyde and the like.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Is there a reason my asking what the rationale is behind not renewing the emergency auth got deleted?

Genuine question. Why still emergency authorization? Is that for new use mRNA vaccines or still the covid variety?

Edit. If this is touchy here, or political a DM is OK.

Because they aren't fully FDA approved for 12 and below and change their formulation yearly.

The debate should be if we're still in an emergency... which current mortality rates for children are at a fraction of a percent.

Well, this was my thinking too. EUA presents unintended (maybe intended) consequences. Sentiment seems to be that we aren't in an emergency and that the beta test was deemed safe and effective. Which is why I'm asking myself why aren't they fully FDA approved? After 4 years of promoting something as safe approval should be a slam dunk and if it's not then why not? Seems logical to question the message when the action doesn't align. Masterclass in losing trust imo.

I think its just the FDA process. IIRC they are supposed to review 3 years of safety data for full FDA approval. Since each year brings a different covid threat, they alter the formula to protect against the current strain and restart the 3 year process.

Healthy Kids 12 and below aren't at real risk of dying of covid and part of the EUA conditional approval is that the reward outweighs the risk. We're still debating what the "risk" of the vaccine is.

Not how it works

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Is there a reason my asking what the rationale is behind not renewing the emergency auth got deleted?

Genuine question. Why still emergency authorization? Is that for new use mRNA vaccines or still the covid variety?

Edit. If this is touchy here, or political a DM is OK.

Because the government is dragging its feet. That's not new or unique to this situation. The govt has successfully convinced a lot of people that extended timeliness is analogous with being "safe"

Who are the people they're convincing a EUA is analogous with safe?

Not what I said. If you go through the threads here, you will often see comments like "this is happening to fast" and the like. The initial formulas for this vaccine was formulated within the first two weeks of the crisis. The dose took another two weeks. That's fairly standard with most vaccines for viruses like this. Most of the rest of the time is political beuracracy. Again, not unique to this vaccine. Two things are unique to this vaccine. The first was the success rate of stopping the initial virus strands. That is an unheard of number for viruses like this. The second is the ingredient list being the first of its kind and the most natural of any vaccine ever reducing further the risk to us. Didn't have to worry about aluminum or mercury or formaldehyde and the like.

Yes, you're right, i see you didn't say that. I read it wrong, I'm still wondering who thinks extending the EUA is analogous with safe though. Because it happened quickly people think keeping emergency use is somehow better? Or you're saying the government in general has convinced people of this and not unique to covid vaccines? Just trying to understand what you meant as i may have missed the point you were making.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Is there a reason my asking what the rationale is behind not renewing the emergency auth got deleted?

Genuine question. Why still emergency authorization? Is that for new use mRNA vaccines or still the covid variety?

Edit. If this is touchy here, or political a DM is OK.

Because they aren't fully FDA approved for 12 and below and change their formulation yearly.

The debate should be if we're still in an emergency... which current mortality rates for children are at a fraction of a percent.

Well, this was my thinking too. EUA presents unintended (maybe intended) consequences. Sentiment seems to be that we aren't in an emergency and that the beta test was deemed safe and effective. Which is why I'm asking myself why aren't they fully FDA approved? After 4 years of promoting something as safe approval should be a slam dunk and if it's not then why not? Seems logical to question the message when the action doesn't align. Masterclass in losing trust imo.

I think its just the FDA process. IIRC they are supposed to review 3 years of safety data for full FDA approval. Since each year brings a different covid threat, they alter the formula to protect against the current strain and restart the 3 year process.

Healthy Kids 12 and below aren't at real risk of dying of covid and part of the EUA conditional approval is that the reward outweighs the risk. We're still debating what the "risk" of the vaccine is.

I've never heard a good explanation and this makes as much sense as anything else I've heard from the health agencies, which isn't much. Since it does matter how they're classified clarity should be important.

 

[Terminalxylem]

. We're still debating what the "risk" of the vaccine is.

Not sure who “we” are, but I don’t think there’s any serious debate about the vaccine’s safety in the scientific community.

That doesn’t mean monitoring for long term AEs won’t continue. But we’ve long passed the reasonable threshold to declare them safe.

In your opinion, are they safe? If not, for whom, and what additional data would you like to establish safety?

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

I think my initial question was asked with incomplete information. I haven't been paying much attention to this particular topic recently, but was surprised to still see EUA classification. This however isn't the case for all age groups and just for age 12 and under? Fully FDA approved for ages 13 and older?

 

[Terminalxylem]

I think my initial question was asked with incomplete information. I haven't been paying much attention to this particular topic recently, but was surprised to still see EUA classification. This however isn't the case for all age groups and just for age 12 and under? Fully FDA approved for ages 13 and older?

Fully FDA approved (without EUA) SARS-CoV-2 vaccines (per ChatGPT):

Comirnaty (Pfizer-BioNTech)

Approved for 16+ yrs; EUA remains for other age groups

Spikevax (Moderna)

Approved for 18+ yrs; also for at-risk 6–11-yr-olds

Nuvaxovid (Novavax)

Approved for 65+ or 12–64-yr-olds with high-risk conditions

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

I think my initial question was asked with incomplete information. I haven't been paying much attention to this particular topic recently, but was surprised to still see EUA classification. This however isn't the case for all age groups and just for age 12 and under? Fully FDA approved for ages 13 and older?

Fully FDA approved (without EUA) SARS-CoV-2 vaccines (per ChatGPT):

Comirnaty (Pfizer-BioNTech)

Approved for 16+ yrs; EUA remains for other age groups

Spikevax (Moderna)

Approved for 18+ yrs; also for at-risk 6–11-yr-olds

Nuvaxovid (Novavax)

Approved for 65+ or 12–64-yr-olds with high-risk conditions

Thanks. I'm not sure this is a question you can answer, but does the FDA approval now cover people that got vaccinated while under EUA, or from approval onward only? Specifically does VICP apply to them, or still still CICP? Probably outside your wheelhouse, but something I'm curious about.