Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don't know - if Wentz did not get hurt where would he be? And he did just as much, if not more, for the Eagles as they did for him - at the very least it was a mutually beneficial experience.
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Nick Foles Landing Spot/Contract Size (Jags, reportedly 4/88 50 guaranteed) (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter fantasycurse42
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
I'd like to say, contrary to my last statement, that I believe any entity that trades for him is going to act with some good faith and extend him to a Cousins-esque deal. I think that's what will happen. But really, I think Philly lets him walk.
Slider
Footballguy
He wants to go somewhere specific. They'll probably work it out at the meetings later this month. He's not going to the highest bidder. You're treating this like it's Bell. Not even close.
rockaction
Footballguy
What if he wants to go play with Saquon and Odell, right up in the NFC East?
I think this is an argument that should end, and I don't say that tersely. He didn't pay two large to get out of his option because he wants a trade to a specific place.
How do you know these claims you're making are true?
rockaction
Footballguy
I mean, if this was so amicable, they wouldn't have picked up the option in the first place. Or if they had a trade worked out to a place he wanted to go, he would have stayed with the option and re-negotiated with the franchise when he got there. They want picks, he wants free agency. Actions speak louder than behind-the-scenes hopes. I think you're being a bit of a rose-colored homer on this one.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
....and you're treating it like Foles will do whatever is best for the Eagles because he owes it to them....
I suspect like most things the truth is somewhere in the middle.
I mean the magnanimous Eagles who Foles owes so much to just took $2MM out of his pocket just because they could.*
* I'm not saying they did the wrong thing they are a business after all - but since they acted like a business and not as a family maybe that should signal this isn't as amicable as you think.
rockaction
Footballguy
This is so funny. I heard, from PFT and others, that he wired that money five days early and immediately after. That's funny.
rockaction
Footballguy
It's likely being treated as a management and labor issue, and we know how those go in the NFL.
rockaction
Footballguy
Say it slowly with me Slider.
Saquon
Odell
Engram
Shepard
and
Eli?
Hoo boy. Twice a year, too.
Saquon
Odell
Engram
Shepard
and
Eli?
Hoo boy. Twice a year, too.
Slider
Footballguy
We still beat them and their oline needs help. And as good as OBJ is, I don't think that's a welcoming body.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, I know. Just playing. My brother is a Giants fan.
They need to address the line, traded away some good defensive players, etc.
Just teasing you. Peace.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Oh, you're from the Philly thread so I can ask you, maybe. What do you think his value on the open market is? And I was more thinking Cousins's years at about 5-10 million less, but I should have clarified that.
rockaction
Footballguy
But Cousins doesn't ever make more than 29.5 million in a year. Foles's franchise tag alone makes him worth 25. Surely somebody signs him to a near-record given the franchise tag.
eta* Cousins's money is fully guaranteed, no small thing.
eta* Cousins's money is fully guaranteed, no small thing.
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Keenum got 2 years 36 million. Or 18mil/per. I see Foles around 3 years 60 million. 20mil/per.
rockaction
Footballguy
Just to clarify, this is my personal opinion/guess. It doesn't represent Philly fans in general. Some think he'll get much more that. Others even think that Philly should keep him and deal Wentz. It's definitely a hot-button topic in Philly. I think he'll get 20 million per year, but hopes he gets 25 and 4 years. He may have passed Rocky Balboa as a Philly sports hero.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Anyone that understands PR. It would've been an awful look to not give him that money after what he did for them, again.Slider said:
They also got to recoup $2mm when they picked up an option they knew he was going to buy out of.
Elevencents
Footballguy
I really hope he goes to a competitor. But not in direct competition with the birds. I think he’d be a nice fit with the Giants but that goes against both my prerequisites.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
That wasn't abnormalSlider said:
This is a very real situation, that the Eagles cannot ignore.
October 17, 2015: Wentz broke a bone in his throwing wrist that required surgery. He missed eight weeks, returned to practice in December and was cleared to play in the national championship game for North Dakota State.
August 11, 2016: Wentz suffered a hairline fracture in his ribs against Tampa Bay. He missed the entire preseason, but played all 16 regular season games.
December 10, 2017: Wentz suffered a Grade 3 tear of the ACL and LCL and missed the remainder of the 2017 regular season and postseason. He also missed the first two games of the 2018 season.
December 12, 2018: Wentz has back spasms that may force him to miss the rest of the 2018 season
That would scare me.
October 17, 2015: Wentz broke a bone in his throwing wrist that required surgery. He missed eight weeks, returned to practice in December and was cleared to play in the national championship game for North Dakota State.
August 11, 2016: Wentz suffered a hairline fracture in his ribs against Tampa Bay. He missed the entire preseason, but played all 16 regular season games.
December 10, 2017: Wentz suffered a Grade 3 tear of the ACL and LCL and missed the remainder of the 2017 regular season and postseason. He also missed the first two games of the 2018 season.
December 12, 2018: Wentz has back spasms that may force him to miss the rest of the 2018 season
That would scare me.
But it's already decided they're not keeping Foles. So what does this have to do with anything?
Dr. Octopus said:
There's talk that they only get their compensatory pick if they picked up the option. Not sure the rules on this but if so, it wasn't exactly doing Nick any wrong by doing so. I still think this ends up in a friendly win-win situation.
Since you asked...
When Wentz goes down "again" I want to everybody to know I thought they made a huge mistake in playing it like they did.
Yep...
See I told ya so.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Not sure, but that wouldn't make sense since teams get compensatory picks based on the free agents they lose (versus ones they sign) and that happens where no options exists.
Like I said, the Eagles did nothing wrong by doing so though.
Ya, your "I told you so" obsession has been called out before and is getting tired. But glad you're cheering for the guy to get hurt so you can win a 'who was right more' point on message board.
Has nothing to do with Nick's contract though, he's gone.
Ya there's talk of that though. Maybe someone can find out the answer on that. Maybe since we had the option to pick him up, it's not really "losing him to free agency"? Not sure on the verbiage of the rule.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Well, you are one of the biggest trolls on the site, so no one has any doubt that you'll both be rooting for an injury, and ready to post your I told you so's if it happens. Just make sure you do the same if other oft-injured guys like Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, and Deshon Watson get hurt. Their teams are also choosing to keep the elite talent and take their chances.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
They have another backup whom they seem to love. Certainly not a SB MVP, but a QB they believe can be very good. If they aren't comfortable with Sudfeld, I'm sure they'll look at FA's.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
What would be a win/win?
A win for Foles is being able to negotiate on the open market, a win for the Eagles is getting something in return. How do both of those things happen?
I believe there is a very select number of teams that Foles wants to go. Lets say he wants the Jags... win/win would be Eagles tagging him and trading him to the Jags.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
If he’s going to lead a team, how does that team losing a pick benefit him?
Furthermore, you can’t say someone is better off negotiating in a tag/trade scenario than as a free agent.
If he walks with his freedom, that’s a win for Foles, if he is tagged and traded, that’ll be a win for Philly.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Agreed, I just don't see while Foles would want to play along with this and cause his new team to lose a draft pick.
babydemon90
Footballguy
Man this thread got WAY off topic. We don't really need a Wentz/Foles debate for 57 pages....
On Foles landing spot - I think Jags most likely. Miami the #2.
Giants most likely going to draft a young guy to sit behind Eli for a year ala Mahomes. Oakland - I don't see the point of moving on from Carr for Foles, unless they're just completely out on him. It's not like Foles would be cheaper.
Any contract is going to have an easy out after a year just in case he reverts to Rams Foles. Probably in the 20-23 mil a year range.
On Foles landing spot - I think Jags most likely. Miami the #2.
Giants most likely going to draft a young guy to sit behind Eli for a year ala Mahomes. Oakland - I don't see the point of moving on from Carr for Foles, unless they're just completely out on him. It's not like Foles would be cheaper.
Any contract is going to have an easy out after a year just in case he reverts to Rams Foles. Probably in the 20-23 mil a year range.
Insein
Footballguy
It's not like Nick is the picture of health. He's had as many season ending injuries as Wentz. Plus Wentz has started almost as many games as Nick in his career (40 for Wentz vs 44 for Nick out of 54 game appearances). Difference being Carson has only played 3 seasons while Nick has played 7.
Football players get injured. QBs get injured. You can't say one QB is injury prone while the other is not because all it takes is one hit and they're out.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
From everything I have read Miami is quite content to tank this year in order to try and land Tua in 2020 draft so I'm not sure they go after Foles.
The more I think about it, it may be a limited market for Foles as I also agree with you on the NYG (although imo they should go after Foles) and Oakland.
Which other teams need a QB:
Jacksonville - they will go hard after Foles
Denver - they have too much money tied up in Keenum for this season but otherwise they likely would have been all in on Foles.
Washington - I don't think they can afford him with what they are paying Smith to not play this season - I think they will tank this year as well
Cincinnati - They likely stick with Dalton and draft a young guy
Maybe Foles won't be getting big money as JAX may just be bidding against themselves.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
This is the same argument I made pages back. In addition to that you also don’t know where they stand on guys like Flacco or Bridgewater and they’re high enough in the draft to go get a rookie QB.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I was one that thought he'd end up closer to Cousins than Keenum on the salary scale (and he still may) but after looking at the landscape I may be wrong.
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Elevencents
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I've been in the 4/80 camp from the start with about half guaranteed. Think he'll get that.
I also think the NYG would be doing a disservice to their fans to not go after him.
I also think the NYG would be doing a disservice to their fans to not go after him.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Foles to the Giants makes too much sense, so it'll never happen.
Who would you rather have as your weapons? Barkley, Beckham, and Shepard, and Engram or Fournette, Westbrook, Cole, and whoever they're trotting out at tight end.
Right. It almost answers itself.
Who would you rather have as your weapons? Barkley, Beckham, and Shepard, and Engram or Fournette, Westbrook, Cole, and whoever they're trotting out at tight end.
Right. It almost answers itself.
