Nnamdi Asomugha or Darrelle Revis? (2 Viewers)

[spider321]

This is what the other poll should have been....

Nnamdi Asomugha and Darrelle Revis.

Who's better?

Why?

 

[spider321]

bump

 

[Tau837]

It's Revis. Consider, through week 9 (link): On throws into Asomugha's coverage, QBs had a 128.1 QB rating this year; on throws into Revis's coverage, QBs had a 46.5 QB rating. It's not close. Revis is also better in run support (more tackles, fewer missed tackles).

 

[Inspiration]

It's Revis. Consider, through week 9 (link): On throws into Asomugha's coverage, QBs had a 128.1 QB rating this year; on throws into Revis's coverage, QBs had a 46.5 QB rating. It's not close. Revis is also better in run support (more tackles, fewer missed tackles).

On the other hand, Asomugha was targeted only 12 times through 8 games while Revis was targeted 49 times. In fact, no other CB that has played at least 400 snaps has been targeted fewer than 29 times.

 

[Jason Wood]

Who's better? Whoever had the better defensive line playing with them on that particular Sunday.

 

[Tau837]

It's Revis. Consider, through week 9 (link): On throws into Asomugha's coverage, QBs had a 128.1 QB rating this year; on throws into Revis's coverage, QBs had a 46.5 QB rating. It's not close. Revis is also better in run support (more tackles, fewer missed tackles).

On the other hand, Asomugha was targeted only 12 times through 8 games while Revis was targeted 49 times. In fact, no other CB that has played at least 400 snaps has been targeted fewer than 29 times.

I certainly agree that the low targets shows ameasure of respect from opposing QBs. But it isn't definitive... it could also mean that the run defense is bad and other teams run more and pass less against the team in question... or it could mean that the other defensive backs are just really bad, making it more about them than the corner in question... or similarly the LBs could be terrible in coverage, leading opponents to target the TEs and RBs more... etc.But the bottom line is that, while targeted more often, Revis has defended much better on those targets... and thus he has made more of an impact.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

This is as close to an Asomugha thread as I could find, and probably a good discussion anyway, given all the Revis exposure of late, but did anyone see/hear him on ESPN this morning? Skip Bayless went after him, almost to the point of it being un-cool. He point-blank said Revis is better and that Deion was in a whole different world than either one of them. I know he needs ratings, that is not worth talking about. What I was really impressed with was Nnamdi's response(s). He defended himself well, while totally maintaining composure. That couldn't have been easy...

Aso was making the rounds, so he was on other shows as well, and he was great in all of them. I guess he wants to go into broadcasting -- he'd be great, if so...

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Nobody makes me turn the channel faster than Skip Bayless.

The answer to the poll question is "yes".

 

[Ghost Rider]

Bayless is an idiot, but I saw that segment, and they were talking from an all-time great perspective. All-time great-wise, yes, Deion Sanders is still light years ahead of Revis and Asomugha. It is no shame to not be in the same all-time great world as Sanders when talking all-time best CBs.

 

[teamroc]

It's Revis. Consider, through week 9 (link): On throws into Asomugha's coverage, QBs had a 128.1 QB rating this year; on throws into Revis's coverage, QBs had a 46.5 QB rating. It's not close. Revis is also better in run support (more tackles, fewer missed tackles).

It's not close? *lol*No point in even responding after I read that.

 

[NoFBinLA]

Nobody makes me turn the channel faster than Skip Bayless.The answer to the poll question is "yes".

on both pointsRevis gets targeted more due to the scheme the Jets run - Asomugha has nobody really across from him so why challenge him. Both are outstanding and if the Jets could fool crazy Al into trading Asomugha for Braylon Edwards or something I'd be a happy guy.Both outstanding players - and as Wood said, it also depends to some extent on how their line plays that day.Great players any team would give their left leg for.

 

[MCguidance]

I'd take either, and I am as big of Revis fan as there is.

 

[fsadvisory]

Revis is better, but how amazing would it be if a team had both.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Revis is better, but how amazing would it be if a team had both.

Why is Revis better?What does Revis do better than Asomugha and or vice versa?I really don't think I can give a good analysis of these 2 guys as I don't see enough of Asomugha because I never watch the Raiders.

 

[Koya]

Revis is the best in the game right now. He absolutely neutralizes the opposition. Its amazing.

Phil Simms was on Mad Dog today and flat out said Revis was the best he had seen.

Period.

Doggie brought up Deion, Simms simply said "different type of player" - but did not in any way infer that, when it came to being a DB, and a cover DB at that, that Deion was any better. Pretty high praise.

 

[LHUCKS]

Curious to know what the Madden ratings are...

 

[travdogg]

I'd say Asomugha, but its tough to say.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

It's Revis. Consider, through week 9 (link): On throws into Asomugha's coverage, QBs had a 128.1 QB rating this year; on throws into Revis's coverage, QBs had a 46.5 QB rating. It's not close. Revis is also better in run support (more tackles, fewer missed tackles).

On the other hand, Asomugha was targeted only 12 times through 8 games while Revis was targeted 49 times. In fact, no other CB that has played at least 400 snaps has been targeted fewer than 29 times.

This isn't really a fair comparison though, since if I'm not mistaken don't the Jets usually have Revis follow the other team's best receiver while Asomugha just sticks to one side of the field and covers who lines up over him?It's much easier to adjust your gameplan to just stick one of your other WRs on the side the Asomugha lines up on and ignore him while your best receiver gets matched up on whoever is left over than it is to just ignore your WR1 all day.

This is why I always found the Bailey/Asomugha conversations tough (before Bailey got old and hobbled), because the Broncos took it to the extreme of even having Bailey cover a TE if he was their best receiver (Gates/Gonzo). Really there's no doubt Asomugha is great, but there's no way to compare him to other great corners until they start having him stick to opposing team's WR1 regardless of where he lines up. I know they had played around with this a bit at the end of last year, did they ever actually go all out on it this year?

 

[Johnny Ice]

Very hard to judge two great corners like this because Revis is playing in the much better scheme/front-7 and there is no way to judge how dominant Asomugha would be in a similar circumstance.

 

[SSOG]

Asomugha was targeted 28 times this year. 28. You want to talk about dominating, Nnamdi took away half the field this year. Poof, it's just gone. I can understand how some of that might be dependent on the quality of the second corner or the quality of the run defense, but Revis got targeted 111 times. You can't write off THAT MASSIVE of a disparity to simple schematic differences. Of the 60 CBs who played at least 600 snaps, only two guys had fewer than 50 targets- Nnamdi, who played 980 snaps with 28 targets, and Kelly Jennings, who had 49 targets on 631 snaps. There is only one CB in the entire NFL today who QBs simply refuse to look at, and it's not Revis.

 

[jurb26]

Asomugha was targeted 28 times this year. 28. You want to talk about dominating, Nnamdi took away half the field this year. Poof, it's just gone. I can understand how some of that might be dependent on the quality of the second corner or the quality of the run defense, but Revis got targeted 111 times. You can't write off THAT MASSIVE of a disparity to simple schematic differences. Of the 60 CBs who played at least 600 snaps, only two guys had fewer than 50 targets- Nnamdi, who played 980 snaps with 28 targets, and Kelly Jennings, who had 49 targets on 631 snaps. There is only one CB in the entire NFL today who QBs simply refuse to look at, and it's not Revis.

I'd take Asomugha as well. Sure he plays one side, but it is the left side and the naturally easier side for most NFL QBs to read and throw to. Oak will also provide help to the opposing side if that is where the teams best WR is lined. You would think this would temp QBs to trhow his way more often. In the end though, Revis gets far more help than many here want to acknowledge IMO. It seems people think the only kind of help a CB can get in the NFL is S over the top. I've seen many times the Jets give help to him underneath though which allows him to bail out on the shorter routes and play the deep ones. They're both great players but I'd prefer Asomugha. Hell there should also be a bonus thrown his way for having to play in Oak.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Asomugha was targeted 28 times this year. 28. You want to talk about dominating, Nnamdi took away half the field this year. Poof, it's just gone. I can understand how some of that might be dependent on the quality of the second corner or the quality of the run defense, but Revis got targeted 111 times. You can't write off THAT MASSIVE of a disparity to simple schematic differences.

Is it? Given the choice of choosing between throwing to Andre Johnson matched up against an elite corner vs. throwing to Kevin Walter matched up against a bad corner I could see the QB going the elite corner's way some. But given the option of throwing to Kevin Walter matched up against an elite corner vs. Andre Johnson matched up against a bad corner I would think the QB would be going the bad corner's way every time, regardless of whether the "elite corner" in this scenario is Nnamdi or Revis. Unfortunately they only had 3 common opponents this year but in 2 of those games the WR1 put up better numbers against Oakland (I'm just going by fantasy points here so we don't get into an argument of how much weight TDs have) and in the other one (San Diego) they tied. And I'm guessing were it not for the Jets playing off at the end against SD that one would have gone the other way as well.That also brings up that question. The Jets had big leads where they played prevent at the end in 4 games this year. The Raiders had none. How many freebie targets did Revis have where the coaches had him playing off a guy at the end of the game?How many targets did Revis get where the Jets were playing zone and Revis just happened to be the closest guy to the receiver and hence gets credit for the "target"? Nnamdi never really plays zone so he doesn't get those cheapies, do the Jets play zone at all (I'm asking here, don't know the answer).When you combine all these things, it seems foolish to have everything just boil down purely to targets. The two situations are in no way even similar. I'm not saying Revis is better, I have no idea who is better. But I think the targets stat is far from an answer to that question when there are so many things badly skewing it.Another question is what happens when you stick Nnamdi in a zone? Do the Raiders even play zone at all? Man coverage is the most important part of being a corner but it is by no means the only part. That seems like an entire facet of Nnamdi's game that we know nothing about.Is Kelly Jennings a better corner than Revis? Because that targets stat has a huge disparity between the two, just like with Nnamdi and Revis. If schematic differences really can't make up that big of a gap, then why aren't we arguing about Nnamdi vs. Jennings?

 

[SSOG]

When you combine all these things, it seems foolish to have everything just boil down purely to targets. The two situations are in no way even similar. I'm not saying Revis is better, I have no idea who is better. But I think the targets stat is far from an answer to that question when there are so many things badly skewing it.

I'm not saying that Revis is a bad corner because he gets targeted so much. I'm saying 28 targets. 28 targets! 28 freaking targets! We aren't talking about a "big" target disparity here, we're talking about a monumental target disparity between Nnamdi and the rest of the league. Nnamdi's Snaps:Target ratio is so far above those of every single CB in every single situation on every single team in the entire freaking NFL. You simply don't see an NFL player dominate his peers so thoroughly in a category like that unless it's Jim Brown or Don Hutson. Nnamdi gets targeted once every THIRTY FIVE SNAPS. We're talking about half of the field becoming literally irrelevant. It doesn't matter if he's covering the opposition's #1 (and he spends plenty of time in coverage of top WRs, because QBs are more comfortable throwing to their right, and even if the offense kept the #1 away from him all game- which they don't- he'd still be forcing the QB to go to a side of the field that he's less comfortable throwing to and allow Oakland to rotate coverage over to help). When people talk about Deion Sanders, they talk about the games where his stat line was nothing but zeros because the other team didn't even look in his direction. Well, that's what's happening with Nnamdi Asomugha- the other team isn't even looking in his direction. They're just giving up half or a third of the field before the ball is ever snapped.To give an extreme example... if a CB was only targeted once all year, but that one target was a 50 yard TD pass, I would still say that said CB was the best in the league, even if his rate stats say that opposing QBs have a 158.3 passer rating when going after that CB.

 

[Tau837]

It's Revis. Consider, through week 9 (link): On throws into Asomugha's coverage, QBs had a 128.1 QB rating this year; on throws into Revis's coverage, QBs had a 46.5 QB rating. It's not close. Revis is also better in run support (more tackles, fewer missed tackles).

It's not close? *lol*No point in even responding after I read that.

It's not close. Sorry if you can't see that the disparity in their play is a huge gap. QBs throwing into Revis's coverage had a 32.3 QB rating. QBs throwing into Asomugha's coverage had a 98.1 rating. And Revis had more tackles and fewer missed tackles, so he was also better in run support.

 

[Tau837]

Asomugha was targeted 28 times this year. 28. You want to talk about dominating, Nnamdi took away half the field this year. Poof, it's just gone. I can understand how some of that might be dependent on the quality of the second corner or the quality of the run defense, but Revis got targeted 111 times. You can't write off THAT MASSIVE of a disparity to simple schematic differences.

Is it? Given the choice of choosing between throwing to Andre Johnson matched up against an elite corner vs. throwing to Kevin Walter matched up against a bad corner I could see the QB going the elite corner's way some. But given the option of throwing to Kevin Walter matched up against an elite corner vs. Andre Johnson matched up against a bad corner I would think the QB would be going the bad corner's way every time, regardless of whether the "elite corner" in this scenario is Nnamdi or Revis. Unfortunately they only had 3 common opponents this year but in 2 of those games the WR1 put up better numbers against Oakland (I'm just going by fantasy points here so we don't get into an argument of how much weight TDs have) and in the other one (San Diego) they tied. And I'm guessing were it not for the Jets playing off at the end against SD that one would have gone the other way as well.That also brings up that question. The Jets had big leads where they played prevent at the end in 4 games this year. The Raiders had none. How many freebie targets did Revis have where the coaches had him playing off a guy at the end of the game?How many targets did Revis get where the Jets were playing zone and Revis just happened to be the closest guy to the receiver and hence gets credit for the "target"? Nnamdi never really plays zone so he doesn't get those cheapies, do the Jets play zone at all (I'm asking here, don't know the answer).When you combine all these things, it seems foolish to have everything just boil down purely to targets. The two situations are in no way even similar. I'm not saying Revis is better, I have no idea who is better. But I think the targets stat is far from an answer to that question when there are so many things badly skewing it.Another question is what happens when you stick Nnamdi in a zone? Do the Raiders even play zone at all? Man coverage is the most important part of being a corner but it is by no means the only part. That seems like an entire facet of Nnamdi's game that we know nothing about.Is Kelly Jennings a better corner than Revis? Because that targets stat has a huge disparity between the two, just like with Nnamdi and Revis. If schematic differences really can't make up that big of a gap, then why aren't we arguing about Nnamdi vs. Jennings?

Very

 

[Tau837]

Sports Illustrated article on Revis:

...In today's NFL there are left cornerbacks and right cornerbacks, and they share the responsibility for covering the opponent's No. 1 wideout. And then there is Revis, who according to Jets coach Rex Ryan is the only corner in the league who does not split duties on the star receiver. "Left side or right side, in the slot or out wide," Revis says, "I'll follow you everywhere you go."

The shutdown corner is an endangered species, threatened by spread offenses that require five and six defensive backs, and by rules changes designed to enhance the passing game. Revis stands alone. This season he has been matched against an unparalleled receiving line: Houston's Andre Johnson, Steve Smith of Carolina, Indy's Reggie Wayne, Marques Colston of New Orleans, and both Randy Moss of New England and Buffalo's Terrell Owens twice. None had more than five catches or 35 yards against Revis. Only one scored a touchdown. Ryan calls it the best year for a cornerback in the modern era, with the possible exception of Deion Sanders's 1994 Super Bowl season with San Francisco.

On the day Ryan was introduced as the Jets' coach last January, he told Revis, "I want to play a lot of man-to-man. Get ready to take the best guy." Because Ryan's defense features so many blitz packages, the Jets spend more than half the time in Cover 1 or Cover 0, meaning they have one or no safeties back. They need a corner they can trust.

...

While rookie Mark Sanchez was the darling of New York in September and played mistake-free in his first postseason appearance, the Jets are the only playoff team with a cornerback who overshadows the quarterback. Most elite corners do not get thrown at, but because of the Jets' defensive schemes, Revis gets thrown at all the time. He likes to position himself as close to the line of scrimmage as possible without being offside—so close that in winter he can see his receiver's breath. He dominates at the snap, interrupting routes before they begin. The voice in his head belongs to his mother, Diana Gilbert, reminding him, "You take the other man's will." By the fourth quarter the receivers start to concede, mainly because they are so tired of seeing Revis's face and feeling his hands. As Atlanta's Roddy White put it, "He's like a gnat. He never gets away from you." ...

 

[Raider Nation]

Just want to clear one thing up. Some of you are implying that Nnamdi should be downgraded because he only plays right CB, as if he can't play on the other side of the field. That is incorrect. The week after Brandon Marshall set an NFL record with 21 receptions, Oakland had Asomugha shadow Marshall all over the field when they were in man coverage. When they were matched up 1-on-1, which was ALL DAY except when it was zone coverage, Marshall had exactly zero catches.

Nnamdi doesn't strictly play right CB due to a handicap playing the left side. It's simply what Oakland's scheme calls for most weeks.

 

[SSOG]

Just want to clear one thing up. Some of you are implying that Nnamdi should be downgraded because he only plays right CB, as if he can't play on the other side of the field. That is incorrect. The week after Brandon Marshall set an NFL record with 21 receptions, Oakland had Asomugha shadow Marshall all over the field when they were in man coverage. When they were matched up 1-on-1, which was ALL DAY except when it was zone coverage, Marshall had exactly zero catches.

Nnamdi doesn't strictly play right CB due to a handicap playing the left side. It's simply what Oakland's scheme calls for most weeks.

As I said, this idea that Nnamdi somehow never sees coverage against opposing #1s is silly. Even when he's only playing one side of the field, a lot of teams opt to leave their #1 on the offensive right, anyway.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

I love Nmamdi, but Revis is the closest thing to glue I've ever seen.

Revis.

 

[Raider Nation]

I love Nmamdi, but Revis is the closest thing to glue I've ever seen.

ELMER'S

 

[Tau837]

Just want to clear one thing up. Some of you are implying that Nnamdi should be downgraded because he only plays right CB, as if he can't play on the other side of the field. That is incorrect. The week after Brandon Marshall set an NFL record with 21 receptions, Oakland had Asomugha shadow Marshall all over the field when they were in man coverage. When they were matched up 1-on-1, which was ALL DAY except when it was zone coverage, Marshall had exactly zero catches.

Nnamdi doesn't strictly play right CB due to a handicap playing the left side. It's simply what Oakland's scheme calls for most weeks.

As I said, this idea that Nnamdi somehow never sees coverage against opposing #1s is silly. Even when he's only playing one side of the field, a lot of teams opt to leave their #1 on the offensive right, anyway.

It would be great if we had the data on how many snaps each defender covered each offensive player, but I'm not sure where to find that. However, ProFootballFocus does provide a breakdown for targets into coverage by player. Here is the info for Asomugha and the opposing teams' #1 WRs:Game 1 vs. SD: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (both Jackson); Jackson was targeted 5 other times in other players' coverage

Game 2 vs. KC: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Savage); Bowe was targeted 5 times in other players' coverage

Game 3 vs. DEN: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Marshall); Marshall was targeted 6 other times in other players' coverage

Game 4 vs. HOU: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Slaton); Johnson was targeted 5 times in other players' coverage

Game 5 vs. NYG: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (both Nicks); Smith was targeted 4 times in other players' coverage... but I'm not sure Smith or any Giants WR qualifies as a real #1 WR

Game 6 vs. PHI: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Westbrook); Jackson was targeted 11 times in other players' coverage

Game 7 vs. NYJ: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Clowney 1, Jones 1); Edwards was targeted 2 times in other players' coverage

Game 8 vs. SD: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (Jackson 1, Chambers 1); Jackson was targeted 11 other times in other players' coverage

Game 9 vs. KC: Asomugha was targeted 5 times (Bowe 4, Charles 1); Bowe was targeted 6 other times in other players' coverage

Game 10 vs. CIN: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (Ocho 1, Caldwell 1); Ocho was targeted 4 other times in other players' coverage

Game 11 vs. DAL: Asomugha was targeted 4 times (Williams 1, Barber 1, Austin 2); Austin was targeted 8 other times in other players' coverage

Game 12 vs. PIT: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (Holmes 1, Wallace 1); Holmes was targeted 8 other times in other players' coverage

Game 13 vs. WAS: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Moss); Moss was targeted 7 other times in other players' coverage

Game 14 vs. DEN: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Gaffney); Marshall was targeted 9 times in other players' coverage

Game 15 vs. CLE: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Stuckey); Massaquoi was targeted 4 times in other players' coverage... but I'm not sure Smith or any Browns WR qualifies as a real #1 WR

Game 16 vs. BAL: Asomugha was not targeted; Mason was targeted 3 times in other players' coverage

Meanwhile:

Game 1 vs. HOU: Revis was targeted 3 times (Johnson 2, Slaton 1); Johnson was targeted 5 other times in other players' coverage

Game 2 vs. NE: Revis was targeted 7 times (Moss 6, Faulk 1); Moss was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 3 vs. TEN: Revis was targeted 11 times (Gage 5, Washington 3, Britt 3); Gage was targeted 5 other times in other players' coverage... I think he was considered the Titans' #1 WR at that point

Game 4 vs. NO: Revis was targeted 5 times (Colston 3, Meachem 2); Colston was targeted 3 other times in other players' coverage

Game 5 vs. MIA: Revis was targeted 4 times (Ginn 2, Bess 1, Hartline 1); Ginn was not targeted in other players' coverage... would one of them be the #1?

Game 6 vs. BUF: Revis was targeted 6 times (all Owens); Owens was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 7 vs. OAK: Revis was targeted 9 times (Murphy 6, Watkins 2, DHB 1); Murphy was targeted 4 other times in other players' coverage

Game 8 vs. MIA: Revis was targeted 4 times (Camarillo 2, Ginn 1, Fasano 1); neither Ginn nor Camarillo was targeted in other players' coverage... would he be the #1?

Game 9 vs. JAX: Revis was targeted 4 times (MSW 3, Wallace 1); MSW was targeted 3 other time in other players' coverage

Game 10 vs. NE: Revis was targeted 12 times (Moss 9, Welker 2, Stanback 1); Moss was targeted 2 other times in other players' coverage

Game 11 vs. CAR: Revis was targeted 6 times (all Smith); Smith was not targeted in other players' coverage

Game 12 vs. BUF: Revis was targeted 10 times (Owens 8, Reed 1, Jackson 1); Owens was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 13 vs. TB: Revis was targeted 9 times (Bryant 5, Clark 4); Bryant was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 14 vs. ATL: White was targeted 7 times (White 5, Gonzalez 2); White was targeted 4 other times in other players' coverage

Game 15 vs. IND: Revis was targeted 8 times (Wayne 6, Collie 2); Wayne was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 16 vs. CIN: Revis was targeted 5 times (Ocho 4, Coles 1); Ocho was not targeted in other players' coverage

So, not sure about how many snaps Asomugha covered the #1 WRs. But in terms of how often he was covering them when they were targeted when playing the Raiders, it wasn't much. By my count, he was covering the #1 WRs 15 times when they were targeted, but the #1 WRs were targeted 98 times when he wasn't covering them. Meanwhile, 13 of the 28 times players were targeted in his coverage, those players were not #1 WRs. This seems to tell us that Asomugha was not frequently used to shadow WRs all over the field.

Revis was targeted 78 times while covering #1 WRs... more than 70% of the time when he was targeted he was on #1 WRs. Those #1 WRs were only targeted 31 other times, which would seem to show that Revis covered them the vast majority of the time.

 

[MrSoup]

Just want to clear one thing up. Some of you are implying that Nnamdi should be downgraded because he only plays right CB, as if he can't play on the other side of the field. That is incorrect. The week after Brandon Marshall set an NFL record with 21 receptions, Oakland had Asomugha shadow Marshall all over the field when they were in man coverage. When they were matched up 1-on-1, which was ALL DAY except when it was zone coverage, Marshall had exactly zero catches.

Nnamdi doesn't strictly play right CB due to a handicap playing the left side. It's simply what Oakland's scheme calls for most weeks.

As I said, this idea that Nnamdi somehow never sees coverage against opposing #1s is silly. Even when he's only playing one side of the field, a lot of teams opt to leave their #1 on the offensive right, anyway.

It would be great if we had the data on how many snaps each defender covered each offensive player, but I'm not sure where to find that. However, ProFootballFocus does provide a breakdown for targets into coverage by player. Here is the info for Asomugha and the opposing teams' #1 WRs:Game 1 vs. SD: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (both Jackson); Jackson was targeted 5 other times in other players' coverage

Game 2 vs. KC: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Savage); Bowe was targeted 5 times in other players' coverage

Game 3 vs. DEN: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Marshall); Marshall was targeted 6 other times in other players' coverage

Game 4 vs. HOU: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Slaton); Johnson was targeted 5 times in other players' coverage

Game 5 vs. NYG: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (both Nicks); Smith was targeted 4 times in other players' coverage... but I'm not sure Smith or any Giants WR qualifies as a real #1 WR

Game 6 vs. PHI: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Westbrook); Jackson was targeted 11 times in other players' coverage

Game 7 vs. NYJ: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Clowney 1, Jones 1); Edwards was targeted 2 times in other players' coverage

Game 8 vs. SD: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (Jackson 1, Chambers 1); Jackson was targeted 11 other times in other players' coverage

Game 9 vs. KC: Asomugha was targeted 5 times (Bowe 4, Charles 1); Bowe was targeted 6 other times in other players' coverage

Game 10 vs. CIN: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (Ocho 1, Caldwell 1); Ocho was targeted 4 other times in other players' coverage

Game 11 vs. DAL: Asomugha was targeted 4 times (Williams 1, Barber 1, Austin 2); Austin was targeted 8 other times in other players' coverage

Game 12 vs. PIT: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (Holmes 1, Wallace 1); Holmes was targeted 8 other times in other players' coverage

Game 13 vs. WAS: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Moss); Moss was targeted 7 other times in other players' coverage

Game 14 vs. DEN: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Gaffney); Marshall was targeted 9 times in other players' coverage

Game 15 vs. CLE: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Stuckey); Massaquoi was targeted 4 times in other players' coverage... but I'm not sure Smith or any Browns WR qualifies as a real #1 WR

Game 16 vs. BAL: Asomugha was not targeted; Mason was targeted 3 times in other players' coverage

Meanwhile:

Game 1 vs. HOU: Revis was targeted 3 times (Johnson 2, Slaton 1); Johnson was targeted 5 other times in other players' coverage

Game 2 vs. NE: Revis was targeted 7 times (Moss 6, Faulk 1); Moss was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 3 vs. TEN: Revis was targeted 11 times (Gage 5, Washington 3, Britt 3); Gage was targeted 5 other times in other players' coverage... I think he was considered the Titans' #1 WR at that point

Game 4 vs. NO: Revis was targeted 5 times (Colston 3, Meachem 2); Colston was targeted 3 other times in other players' coverage

Game 5 vs. MIA: Revis was targeted 4 times (Ginn 2, Bess 1, Hartline 1); Ginn was not targeted in other players' coverage... would one of them be the #1?

Game 6 vs. BUF: Revis was targeted 6 times (all Owens); Owens was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 7 vs. OAK: Revis was targeted 9 times (Murphy 6, Watkins 2, DHB 1); Murphy was targeted 4 other times in other players' coverage

Game 8 vs. MIA: Revis was targeted 4 times (Camarillo 2, Ginn 1, Fasano 1); neither Ginn nor Camarillo was targeted in other players' coverage... would he be the #1?

Game 9 vs. JAX: Revis was targeted 4 times (MSW 3, Wallace 1); MSW was targeted 3 other time in other players' coverage

Game 10 vs. NE: Revis was targeted 12 times (Moss 9, Welker 2, Stanback 1); Moss was targeted 2 other times in other players' coverage

Game 11 vs. CAR: Revis was targeted 6 times (all Smith); Smith was not targeted in other players' coverage

Game 12 vs. BUF: Revis was targeted 10 times (Owens 8, Reed 1, Jackson 1); Owens was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 13 vs. TB: Revis was targeted 9 times (Bryant 5, Clark 4); Bryant was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 14 vs. ATL: White was targeted 7 times (White 5, Gonzalez 2); White was targeted 4 other times in other players' coverage

Game 15 vs. IND: Revis was targeted 8 times (Wayne 6, Collie 2); Wayne was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 16 vs. CIN: Revis was targeted 5 times (Ocho 4, Coles 1); Ocho was not targeted in other players' coverage

So, not sure about how many snaps Asomugha covered the #1 WRs. But in terms of how often he was covering them when they were targeted when playing the Raiders, it wasn't much. By my count, he was covering the #1 WRs 15 times when they were targeted, but the #1 WRs were targeted 98 times when he wasn't covering them. Meanwhile, 13 of the 28 times players were targeted in his coverage, those players were not #1 WRs. This seems to tell us that Asomugha was not frequently used to shadow WRs all over the field.

Revis was targeted 78 times while covering #1 WRs... more than 70% of the time when he was targeted he was on #1 WRs. Those #1 WRs were only targeted 31 other times, which would seem to show that Revis covered them the vast majority of the time.

Or this could mean teams still don't want to throw the ball Asomugha's way.

 

[Tau837]

Just want to clear one thing up. Some of you are implying that Nnamdi should be downgraded because he only plays right CB, as if he can't play on the other side of the field. That is incorrect. The week after Brandon Marshall set an NFL record with 21 receptions, Oakland had Asomugha shadow Marshall all over the field when they were in man coverage. When they were matched up 1-on-1, which was ALL DAY except when it was zone coverage, Marshall had exactly zero catches.

Nnamdi doesn't strictly play right CB due to a handicap playing the left side. It's simply what Oakland's scheme calls for most weeks.

As I said, this idea that Nnamdi somehow never sees coverage against opposing #1s is silly. Even when he's only playing one side of the field, a lot of teams opt to leave their #1 on the offensive right, anyway.

It would be great if we had the data on how many snaps each defender covered each offensive player, but I'm not sure where to find that. However, ProFootballFocus does provide a breakdown for targets into coverage by player. Here is the info for Asomugha and the opposing teams' #1 WRs:Game 1 vs. SD: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (both Jackson); Jackson was targeted 5 other times in other players' coverage

Game 2 vs. KC: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Savage); Bowe was targeted 5 times in other players' coverage

Game 3 vs. DEN: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Marshall); Marshall was targeted 6 other times in other players' coverage

Game 4 vs. HOU: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Slaton); Johnson was targeted 5 times in other players' coverage

Game 5 vs. NYG: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (both Nicks); Smith was targeted 4 times in other players' coverage... but I'm not sure Smith or any Giants WR qualifies as a real #1 WR

Game 6 vs. PHI: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Westbrook); Jackson was targeted 11 times in other players' coverage

Game 7 vs. NYJ: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Clowney 1, Jones 1); Edwards was targeted 2 times in other players' coverage

Game 8 vs. SD: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (Jackson 1, Chambers 1); Jackson was targeted 11 other times in other players' coverage

Game 9 vs. KC: Asomugha was targeted 5 times (Bowe 4, Charles 1); Bowe was targeted 6 other times in other players' coverage

Game 10 vs. CIN: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (Ocho 1, Caldwell 1); Ocho was targeted 4 other times in other players' coverage

Game 11 vs. DAL: Asomugha was targeted 4 times (Williams 1, Barber 1, Austin 2); Austin was targeted 8 other times in other players' coverage

Game 12 vs. PIT: Asomugha was targeted 2 times (Holmes 1, Wallace 1); Holmes was targeted 8 other times in other players' coverage

Game 13 vs. WAS: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Moss); Moss was targeted 7 other times in other players' coverage

Game 14 vs. DEN: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Gaffney); Marshall was targeted 9 times in other players' coverage

Game 15 vs. CLE: Asomugha was targeted 1 time (Stuckey); Massaquoi was targeted 4 times in other players' coverage... but I'm not sure Smith or any Browns WR qualifies as a real #1 WR

Game 16 vs. BAL: Asomugha was not targeted; Mason was targeted 3 times in other players' coverage

Meanwhile:

Game 1 vs. HOU: Revis was targeted 3 times (Johnson 2, Slaton 1); Johnson was targeted 5 other times in other players' coverage

Game 2 vs. NE: Revis was targeted 7 times (Moss 6, Faulk 1); Moss was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 3 vs. TEN: Revis was targeted 11 times (Gage 5, Washington 3, Britt 3); Gage was targeted 5 other times in other players' coverage... I think he was considered the Titans' #1 WR at that point

Game 4 vs. NO: Revis was targeted 5 times (Colston 3, Meachem 2); Colston was targeted 3 other times in other players' coverage

Game 5 vs. MIA: Revis was targeted 4 times (Ginn 2, Bess 1, Hartline 1); Ginn was not targeted in other players' coverage... would one of them be the #1?

Game 6 vs. BUF: Revis was targeted 6 times (all Owens); Owens was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 7 vs. OAK: Revis was targeted 9 times (Murphy 6, Watkins 2, DHB 1); Murphy was targeted 4 other times in other players' coverage

Game 8 vs. MIA: Revis was targeted 4 times (Camarillo 2, Ginn 1, Fasano 1); neither Ginn nor Camarillo was targeted in other players' coverage... would he be the #1?

Game 9 vs. JAX: Revis was targeted 4 times (MSW 3, Wallace 1); MSW was targeted 3 other time in other players' coverage

Game 10 vs. NE: Revis was targeted 12 times (Moss 9, Welker 2, Stanback 1); Moss was targeted 2 other times in other players' coverage

Game 11 vs. CAR: Revis was targeted 6 times (all Smith); Smith was not targeted in other players' coverage

Game 12 vs. BUF: Revis was targeted 10 times (Owens 8, Reed 1, Jackson 1); Owens was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 13 vs. TB: Revis was targeted 9 times (Bryant 5, Clark 4); Bryant was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 14 vs. ATL: White was targeted 7 times (White 5, Gonzalez 2); White was targeted 4 other times in other players' coverage

Game 15 vs. IND: Revis was targeted 8 times (Wayne 6, Collie 2); Wayne was targeted 1 other time in other players' coverage

Game 16 vs. CIN: Revis was targeted 5 times (Ocho 4, Coles 1); Ocho was not targeted in other players' coverage

So, not sure about how many snaps Asomugha covered the #1 WRs. But in terms of how often he was covering them when they were targeted when playing the Raiders, it wasn't much. By my count, he was covering the #1 WRs 15 times when they were targeted, but the #1 WRs were targeted 98 times when he wasn't covering them. Meanwhile, 13 of the 28 times players were targeted in his coverage, those players were not #1 WRs. This seems to tell us that Asomugha was not frequently used to shadow WRs all over the field.

Revis was targeted 78 times while covering #1 WRs... more than 70% of the time when he was targeted he was on #1 WRs. Those #1 WRs were only targeted 31 other times, which would seem to show that Revis covered them the vast majority of the time.

Or this could mean teams still don't want to throw the ball Asomugha's way.

Against the Raiders, #1 WRs were targeted 113 times by my count, and Asomugha was only covering them 15 times (13.2%). Against the Jets, #1 WRs were targeted 109 times by my count, and Revis was covering them 78 times (71.6%).I think the main point of this data is that Asomugha is not covering the #1 WRs nearly as often as Revis. I think this data fits FreeBagel's posted explanation very well... Revis most often covers #1 WRs, and often without help, while Asomugha most often covers lesser WRs with #1 WRs being covered by others... which makes it much more attractive to avoid Asomugha than to avoid Revis. (Even though the numbers show they were mistaken - they should have targeted Asomugha more often and Revis less often.)

 

[NoFBinLA]

I'd take Asomugha as well. Sure he plays one side, but it is the left side and the naturally easier side for most NFL QBs to read and throw to. Oak will also provide help to the opposing side if that is where the teams best WR is lined. You would think this would temp QBs to trhow his way more often. In the end though, Revis gets far more help than many here want to acknowledge IMO. It seems people think the only kind of help a CB can get in the NFL is S over the top. I've seen many times the Jets give help to him underneath though which allows him to bail out on the shorter routes and play the deep ones. They're both great players but I'd prefer Asomugha. Hell there should also be a bonus thrown his way for having to play in Oak.

zHaving watched every Jets game I can say he really doesn't. A good deal of the Jets defense is predicated on the fact they don't need to do that and they don't. The SI article Just Win Baby quoted is a good explanation of this.

I'm not saying he's better than Asomugha b/c of that - I'd take either one in a heartbeat and it's nearly impossible to compare in part because of scheme, opportunity and other factors. I vote Revis because I love the Jets. But Nnamdi is a beast and it's truly a coin flip IMO.

But there's no secret safety helping Revis no matter what Randy Moss thinks.

 

[IDrinkyourMilkshake]

This is like having to choose between Kate Beckinsale and Charlize Theron.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Just want to clear one thing up. Some of you are implying that Nnamdi should be downgraded because he only plays right CB, as if he can't play on the other side of the field. That is incorrect. The week after Brandon Marshall set an NFL record with 21 receptions, Oakland had Asomugha shadow Marshall all over the field when they were in man coverage. When they were matched up 1-on-1, which was ALL DAY except when it was zone coverage, Marshall had exactly zero catches.

Nnamdi doesn't strictly play right CB due to a handicap playing the left side. It's simply what Oakland's scheme calls for most weeks.

I don't think anyone is implying that playing on the other side of the field is some kind of hole in Nnamdi's game. No one doubts whether or not he can do it. The reason it gets brought up is because it completely ruins the credibility of the targets argument when one guy spends most of his time covering a team's #1 WR with no safety help while another spends most of his time covering a weaker WR in a scheme that typically leaves the safeties back while the team's #1 WR is matched up against a weak corner on the other side of the field, making for a much more attractive option. That's not to say that Nnamdi couldn't cover every #1 WR in the league all day long with no safety help, rather it's just to say that it makes comparing targets less helpful.

Think of it this way. If you could choose between throwing to Randy Moss matched up against Chris Johnson, Wes Welker matched up against Stanford Routt, or Sam Aiken matched up against Nnamdi Asomugha, how many times are you going to choose to throw to Aiken? But now if you flipped Nnamdi onto Welker or Moss throwing at Nnamdi becomes a somewhat realistic option.

And again, I realize this is a bit of hyperbole and it's not like Nnamdi never covers #1 guys, because he does. But I think JTW's numbers give a pretty good indication that there is a fairly large disparity between the amount of time Nnamdi spends matched up against them vs. the amount of time Revis spends matched up against them.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Also, can someone clear up this whole "Nnamdi takes away an entire side of the field" thing for me?

Are we back in 1970 where everyone lines up in 2 WR sets and keeps everyone else in to block? Last I checked Nnamdi is only covering one guy, and he doesn't seem like the type of super aggressive player that comes off his man to jump someone else's route very often. So that leaves a slot receiver (or two), a tight end, a back out of the backfield, etc that are free to go over on that side of the field. I would like to know what magic he possesses that prevents a quarterback from throwing to a RB in the flats, to a slot receiver on an out, or to a TE coming over on a drag when Nnamdi's receiver has run him 40 yards down field on a streak...

 

[MCguidance]

Let it go, its both.

 

[NoFBinLA]

This is like having to choose between Kate Beckinsale and Charlize Theron.

 

[jurb26]

But there's no secret safety helping Revis no matter what Randy Moss thinks.

Like I said, help doesn't just come from a S.

 

[Sabertooth]

WOODSON!

 

[NoFBinLA]

WOODSON!

Surprised it took this long for that one to come up.And given how close to the end of his career Woodson is, no. Both other players have far more left in the tank and if they can't do what Woodson does (a point I would argue) they have time to learn it or end up in a scheme which brings it out in them.

 

[NoFBinLA]

This is like having to choose between Kate Beckinsale and Charlize Theron.

and now we may have to reconsider Beckinsale. Cause damn that's ridiculous.

 

[BlackMagic10]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...&id=4841466

Was Oakland cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha overlooked this year? I know Darrelle Revis had an unbelievable year. But no one THREW at Asomugha. Your thoughts?

A: Asomugha got recognition by getting back to the Pro Bowl, which was deserved. I'm glad you brought this up. So many people have jumped on the Revis bandwagon, and rightfully so. Revis had a great season, but Asomugha has established himself as the best man-to-man corner in football. It was a great year for cornerbacks, and it appears to be a great era for the position. Charles Woodson was the defensive player of the year. Revis got votes for the same honor. Champ Bailey had a great season in Denver, but he was about the fourth-best corner this year. Until somebody throws at Asomugha and beats him, you must keep him in the No. 1 hole.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Speaking of bandwagons, when I bumped this yesterday, the poll results looked like this:

19 votes for ASO

10 votes for REV

And now it reads:

60 votes for ASO

102 votes for REV

So it flip-flopped, with Revis garnishing over a 2 to 1 edge (92/41) in the recent voting...maybe because he's on the Jets in a playoff run. I guess there are a lot of Jets fans and Johnny-come-lately's in the Shark Pool this week.

 

[IDrinkyourMilkshake]

Speaking of bandwagons, when I bumped this yesterday, the poll results looked like this:

19 votes for ASO

10 votes for REV

And now it reads:

60 votes for ASO

102 votes for REV

So it flip-flopped, with Revis garnishing over a 2 to 1 edge (92/41) in the recent voting...maybe because he's on the Jets in a playoff run. I guess there are a lot of Jets fans and Johnny-come-lately's in the Shark Pool this week.

Its not surprising. Revis has gotten a lot of attention from the media (deservingly so). He's the "it" guy right now. Asomugha plays in Oakland where A) Nobody throws his way B) Nobody watches the games. If Oakland goes on a winning streak (LOL) next year all of a sudden Asomugha will be the "it" guy. Its similar to the whole Manning-Brady debates. A few years back it was Brady. Now its Manning. Next year it might flip again. Just the way it works when you're trying to compare elite talents.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

This is like having to choose between Kate Beckinsale and Charlize Theron.

The #### was that?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Speaking of bandwagons, when I bumped this yesterday, the poll results looked like this:

19 votes for ASO

10 votes for REV

And now it reads:

60 votes for ASO

102 votes for REV

So it flip-flopped, with Revis garnishing over a 2 to 1 edge (92/41) in the recent voting...maybe because he's on the Jets in a playoff run. I guess there are a lot of Jets fans and Johnny-come-lately's in the Shark Pool this week.

Or it's that you were bumping a 2 month old thread, and a lot happens in the NFL in 2 months.Don't you think you'd get pretty different results if you bumped that Shonn Greene vs. Jamaal Charles vs. Beanie Wells thread from 2 months ago?

 

[NoFBinLA]

This is like having to choose between Kate Beckinsale and Charlize Theron.

I terrible career choice?

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Speaking of bandwagons, when I bumped this yesterday, the poll results looked like this:

19 votes for ASO

10 votes for REV

And now it reads:

60 votes for ASO

102 votes for REV

So it flip-flopped, with Revis garnishing over a 2 to 1 edge (92/41) in the recent voting...maybe because he's on the Jets in a playoff run. I guess there are a lot of Jets fans and Johnny-come-lately's in the Shark Pool this week.

Or it's that you were bumping a 2 month old thread, and a lot happens in the NFL in 2 months.Don't you think you'd get pretty different results if you bumped that Shonn Greene vs. Jamaal Charles vs. Beanie Wells thread from 2 months ago?

Hey, just having some fun... And don't agree with your other part, as it's not close to a fair comparison. First of all, of course RB's are going to vary widely. Who's the better CB is a different topic -- they don't get plugged in or dominate the landscape like RBs do. And this wasn't a FF question to begin with. Also, both corners are at the top of their game, not some up-and-comers getting a chance.