For Non Steeler Fans - Should Mike Tomlin Have Been Fired At End Of 2024 Season? (1 Viewer)

[nightmare]

NOBODY tagged Kenny Pickett as a franchise QB. Except Pittsburgh. Was this the Owner or Tomlin?

This is the kind of revisionist thinking I think we have to check ourselves with.

ESPN had Pickett as a top QB and the #22 overall pick in the draft and a top QB.

Scouts Inc.'s NFL draft rankings for the 2022 class: Top prospects, plus grades

Here are Scouts Inc.'s final NFL draft rankings for 2022, complete with evaluation grades for the top prospects.

www.espn.com

Rating a QB as pick 22 is not close to franchise. Top Qb in one of the poorest qb drafts means pass. Pickett gets rated that high
because he is a QB and not rated 22 on skills.

 

[Joe Bryant]

NOBODY tagged Kenny Pickett as a franchise QB. Except Pittsburgh. Was this the Owner or Tomlin?

This is the kind of revisionist thinking I think we have to check ourselves with.

ESPN had Pickett as a top QB and the #22 overall pick in the draft and a top QB.

Scouts Inc.'s NFL draft rankings for the 2022 class: Top prospects, plus grades

Here are Scouts Inc.'s final NFL draft rankings for 2022, complete with evaluation grades for the top prospects.

www.espn.com

Rating a QB as pick 22 is not close to franchise. Top Qb in one of the poorest qb drafts means pass. Pickett gets rated that high
because he is a QB and not rated 22 on skills.

#22 overall player not a projected franchise QB?

Interesting.

 

[nightmare]

Effort and pursuit? Wilson and Fields Defines the minimum you can do to get a QB.

For this year's class, what would you have done? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/_/year/2025/position/qb

$100,000,000 to Darnold?

For 2025 Maybe Darnold.

You seemed to have passed over 2024 where you can get a lot closer to a franchise QB.
Pitt did the same thing and are now in no man's land with dwindling options.

A good Franchise looks down the road at roster and talent (especially QB).
2024 Pittsburgh had pick 20 and took the player that was rated there(Fautanu).

Pittsburgh does NOTHING to develop QB's. Yet, TOMLIN makes this call(QB signings) and is not getting media fried over it.
Tomlin also gets a pass for keeping Canada(OC) around for too long.
This team is the AFC playoff doormat and no playoff team is afraid of them.
Imagine the Bengals making the playoffs last year. No one would have wanted to
face them on the fact that J Burrow and company beat you because they wanted it more.
Pitt has no QB's, no attitude, no playoff future, and YET, here we are. rinse, repeat.

 

[nightmare]

NOBODY tagged Kenny Pickett as a franchise QB. Except Pittsburgh. Was this the Owner or Tomlin?

This is the kind of revisionist thinking I think we have to check ourselves with.

ESPN had Pickett as a top QB and the #22 overall pick in the draft and a top QB.

Scouts Inc.'s NFL draft rankings for the 2022 class: Top prospects, plus grades

Here are Scouts Inc.'s final NFL draft rankings for 2022, complete with evaluation grades for the top prospects.

www.espn.com

Rating a QB as pick 22 is not close to franchise. Top Qb in one of the poorest qb drafts means pass. Pickett gets rated that high
because he is a QB and not rated 22 on skills.

#22 overall player not a projected franchise QB?

Interesting.

There are no franchise QB's in this draft and you might see two go in the top ten.
S Sanders is rated as a late first early, second talent. That QB tag next to his name is the only
thing getting him drafted higher.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

An awful lot of Steelers' fans piled into the non-Steelers fan thread
Just an observation

-I won't rebuke a single one of you, I don't root for the Steelers and I respect that some of you have seen enough
When Tomlin won the Super Bowl I was very critical at the time and I was pretty well booed for pointing out his flaws

Over time I have watched him have quite a lot of success and more recently he's hit hard times
I think he would still do well for a lot of NFL teams and I support him leaving Pittsburgh or the Steelers allowing him to go elsewhere, might work out well for both of them

But my gut says the Steelers have been super lucky to have only 3 head coaches since 1969, it's an incredible tip of the cap to their organization for valuing stability
Let's not fuss about it, just pack his bags and get him a plane ticket to South Beach and MoP will pick him up at the airport, there's no need to argue about it, especially now.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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"I'm still getting the better of you"

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Doesn’t Tomlin have a big say in who the talent will be?

Yes. An incredible amount of input.

 

[drummer]

I don't think anyone would had thought they would win that division with Fields and a washed Wilson this season. If Tomlin had Lamar Jackson, there would be no reason for a topic like this.

 

[Joe Bryant]

NOBODY tagged Kenny Pickett as a franchise QB. Except Pittsburgh. Was this the Owner or Tomlin?

This is the kind of revisionist thinking I think we have to check ourselves with.

ESPN had Pickett as a top QB and the #22 overall pick in the draft and a top QB.

Scouts Inc.'s NFL draft rankings for the 2022 class: Top prospects, plus grades

Here are Scouts Inc.'s final NFL draft rankings for 2022, complete with evaluation grades for the top prospects.

www.espn.com

Rating a QB as pick 22 is not close to franchise. Top Qb in one of the poorest qb drafts means pass. Pickett gets rated that high
because he is a QB and not rated 22 on skills.

#22 overall player not a projected franchise QB?

Interesting.

There are no franchise QB's in this draft and you might see two go in the top ten.
S Sanders is rated as a late first early, second talent. That QB tag next to his name is the only
thing getting him drafted higher.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Joe Bryant]

You seemed to have passed over 2024 where you can get a lot closer to a franchise QB.

I didn't pass over anything. I was talking about this year.

For 2024, this was the Free Agent landscape for QBs https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/_/year/2024/position/qb

Kirk Cousins off injury for $180,000,000 was interesting. After him, Gardner Minshew, Tyrod Taylor, Sam Darnold, Jacoby Brissett, Marcus Mariotta, Mitch Trubisky and so on.

I know fans think teams can just aggressively go after whatever they want and it just happens. Reality can be different.

 

[unckeyherb]

I voted yes fire. As was stated earlier this reminds me of late 2000’s Eagles and Andy Reid. Had a ton of success and rarely had a “bad” season but at some point it was clear we were never going to get over the hump. Andy had the additional baggage of his son overdosing at the training facility but everyone breathed an optimistic sigh of relief here when they parted ways. And it worked out for both parties big time.

Eight Super Bowl appearances and five championships between the two in the eleven years since they parted ways. Sometimes you need a new message/messenger.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Tomlin over the last 3-4 seasons has had almost nothing to work with at QB.

I went over everything Tomlin related in another thread in great detail. Tomlin CHOSE to have the QBs the Steelers rostered. The comparison came up in the other thread of Tomlin and Reid. Reid went out and got the QBs he wanted . . . either through the draft, moving up in the draft, through trade, or savvy free agent signings.

Tomlin is not a rookie coach that gets told who will be on his roster. He's been a head coach for 18 years. And not just a head coach for that long . . . he's been with the same franchise the entire time. IMO, there is no way a front office doesn't do what their almost two-decades long head coach wants. Mike Vrabel has been in NE for about 8 minutes and ownership and the GM types are cow-towing to whatever he wants for decisions. Specifically last year, PIT paid out $5M total to have Wilson and Fields as their QBs with a strategy to load up on paying other players to have a talent advantage across their entire roster..

IMO, at any point, Tomlin could have told the PIT brass to get him a better QB. There were any number of ways they could have done it (see Reid, Andy). They haven't found a QB solution in their conservative (or cheap) way of pursuing one. Also IMO, PIT being good but not great every season doesn't really get them closer to a title. They just get to play another week vs. non-playoff teams.

Here's other info I posted in that other thread . . .

Here are the total playoff wins for all teams over the past 8 seasons.

17 - KC
10 - PHI
8 - LAR, SF
7 - BUF
6 - TB
5 - CIN, NE
3 - BAL, GB, HOU, JAC, NO, TEN
2 - DAL, DET, MIN, WAS
1 - ATL, CLE, IND, LAC, NYG, SEA
0 - ARI, CAR, CHI, DEN, LV, MIA, NYJ, PIT

Tomlin is now one of 5 head coaches to go at least 8 years without a playoff win and retain his job.

- Paul Brown (8 seasons . . . then retired from coaching but was not fired)
- Don Shula (8 seasons . . . won 3 playoff games the following season and then coached another 13 years)
- Jim Mora (11 seasons . . . never won a playoff game with NO (also did not win a p2021layoff game in 4 seasons with IND))
- Marvin Lewis (16 seasons . . . never won a playoff game with CIN)

I didn't vote in the poll, mostly because I am indifferent as to what the Steelers do. But at some point the higher ups need to consider if the team is headed in the right direction. The seemingly easy answer to to aggressively pursue a better QB . . . but they don't appear to really have done that over multiple years.

To be fair, Big Ben didn't retire until 2021. So you're not going to bring in a Free Agent while Big Ben is your #1 guy. Since 2021, there haven't been that any great QB options to pursue. The top guys since 2021 were Sam Darnold, Kirk Cousins, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garoppolo, Jameis Winston, Andy Dalton as your options. Nothing there is moving the needle. So you're left with the NFL draft.

2019 they had the #10 pick. They could have traded up to #5 for Daniel Jones or stayed where they were at and drafted Dwayne Haskins. The Steelers didn't make a 1st round selection in 2020, their best bet was to draft Jalen Hurts who was still available. In 2021, NFL draft, Steelers had the #24 pick. You trying to move up in the 10-15 range for Justin Fields or Mac Jones? 2022 they drafted Kenny Pickett at #20, who was the first QB taken. 2023 they had the #14 pick. Were they moving into the top 5 to take one of Young, Stroud, or Richardson? Doubtful they had the ammo to do that. Last season they picked #20, maybe they could have moved up to #12 to pick Bo Nix?

Looking at their roster, where they were drafting and what was available, the options weren't very good. Jalen Hurts is the only hindsight 20/20 pick that I'd say they messed up on. The rest though . . .

 

[Anarchy99]

D

I don't see taking a swing on a first round draft QB and then adding guys like Wilson and Taylor as not doing what they can.

Finding a top flight QB and having a succession plan is a process. Yes, the Steelers have tried over the past few years . . . drafting Rudolph and Pickett, bringing in Trubisky, Wilson, and Fields. You have pointed out individual players or moments in time asking what PIT should have been expected to do. I suggest we look at "the big picture" and better assess what they did or didn't do and the decisions they made. I understand that a lot of this will be considered after the fact analysis, as we already know what happened. I won't specifically be pointing to certain outcomes, only specific decisions.

All teams go through this cycle, and rather than look back at situations that didn't work, I want to focus on two ones that did . . . the Packers and the Chiefs. GB drafted Aaron Rodgers when Brett Favre was 36 and still playing well. They also drafted Jordan Love when Rodgers was 38 (coming off back-to-back MVP seasons). In both cases, many people thought the Packers were crazy and were wasting their first round picks when they could have added an impact starter. Both guys sat for a while, then took over as starters and continued the success of GB.

Now let's look at the Steelers situation. Big Ben had a great passing season in 2018 (but PIT missed the playoffs). At that point, they did decide to invest in a QB in the draft (Rudolph in the 3rd). Rudolph was the 6th QB taken in a draft that saw Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen , Jackson all go in the first round. Using the Packers model, they would have taken Lamar with their first pick. They took safety Terrell Edmunds instead. Ben missed most of the 2019 season, and IMO, Rudolph didn't look great in starting half the season.

In the 2019 draft, the Stelers moved up from Pick 20 to Pick 10 . . . to draft LB Devin Bush. They could have tried for a QB again in the 2020 draft . . . except they had traded their first round pick for S Minkah Fitzpatrick. Speaking of Love, he almost fell to the spot PIT was in, so they could easily have moved up a handful of spots to take him if they still had their pick. The 2021 draft was touted as having a bunch of good QBs. Many other teams moved up the board to draft them, but PIT stuck at Pick 24 and drafted Najee Harris. They finally dipped their toe in the water again in 2022 draft for Pickett at Pick 20. In the preceding 5 drafts, there were 17 QBs taken prior to Pick 20 (ie, an average of almost 3.5). In several other drafts, an argument could be made that Pickett would have fallen into Round 2. Having just taken a first round QB, they would not be expected to take one again in 2023 or 2024.

On the free agent and trade market, a lot of QBs were out there one way or another. I'm not saying that PIT could have gotten these guys, but there were free agents, tagged, or traded over the years . . . Garoppolo, Brady, Cousins, Watson, Wilson, Carr, Darnold, Mayfield, Prescott, Rivers, Wentz, Smith, Stafford, etc. If PIT wanted one of those guys, they could have made it happen. (Not saying they should have gone after them . . . who knows, maybe they did.)

Let's also look at the Chiefs. Reid came in and traded for Alex Smith and improved by 9 wins. KC went to the playoffs 4 times with Smith (who was a 3-time Pro Bowl QB in that time). Smith led the league in passer rating, A/YPA, and INT% his last year as a starter there. And what did the Chiefs do? They moved up in the draft to take Mahomes (and they traded away Smith).

League wide, I still find it odd how attached teams are to picks, especially in terms of not forked over any to fill the most important position on the field. PIT moved a first rounder to draft a safety. And they moved up in the first round of the draft . . . to take another safety. But at some point, we need to start looking at things differently and move on from IF ONLY THEY HAD A QB to WHY DIDN'T THEY DO ALL THEY COULD TO GET A QB? The Steelers value defense over offense, so when they end up with a so-so offense with so-so QBs, I again say THAT WAS A CHOICE they made to try to further load up on defensive players. They've had 7 years pre- and post- Ben to do a lot more than they actually did. I get it, they made some moves, and the moves didn't work out. But continuing to emphasize defense over offense only made the situation more pronounced.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I get it, they made some moves, and the moves didn't work out.

Yes. That was my point. I was interested in the perceived lack of effort from the team in making moves. The first round QB they drafted and the free agent QBs they added didn't work out. That's pretty common. But that's different from not trying.

On a future note, the responses if they add a particular aging free agent QB this year will be gold.

 

[Anarchy99]

I get it, they made some moves, and the moves didn't work out.

Yes. That was my point. I was interested in the perceived lack of effort from the team in making moves. The first round QB they drafted and the free agent QBs they added didn't work out. That's pretty common. But that's different from not trying.

On a future note, the responses if they add a particular aging free agent QB this year will be gold.

Yes, the Steelers tried. I'd give them a C- grade in their approach. They didn't try hard . . . they tried with a minimal amount of effort and as few dollars as possible to staff the position. As a result, they currently don't have a starting QB (unless they roll with Rudolph), so they can sign a soon to be 42-year-old or draft someone (or both). I suspect they are waiting to sign Rodgers until after the compensatory pick signing penalty time frame ends (after the draft ends and starting 4/29). Time will tell if they continue their usual approach to fixing the QB situation will yield different results. (I have my doubts, but it's impossible to tell until it plays out.)

 

[nightmare]

The other side of this coin is M Tomlin's defense. The most money in the league spent to (again) be the playoff doormat.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I voted yes fire. As was stated earlier this reminds me of late 2000’s Eagles and Andy Reid. Had a ton of success and rarely had a “bad” season but at some point it was clear we were never going to get over the hump. Andy had the additional baggage of his son overdosing at the training facility but everyone breathed an optimistic sigh of relief here when they parted ways. And it worked out for both parties big time.

Eight Super Bowl appearances and five championships between the two in the eleven years since they parted ways. Sometimes you need a new message/messenger.

Agreed. I think most here would agree that Tomlin is still one of the better coaches in the league (although any talk that he is a top 5 for example is crazy talk), but it feels like the Steelers need a change. Tomlin is great at overachieving in the regular season, but the lack of postseason success since early in Obama's first term (think about that!) is glaring.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I get it, they made some moves, and the moves didn't work out.

Yes. That was my point. I was interested in the perceived lack of effort from the team in making moves. The first round QB they drafted and the free agent QBs they added didn't work out. That's pretty common. But that's different from not trying.

On a future note, the responses if they add a particular aging free agent QB this year will be gold.

Yes, the Steelers tried. I'd give them a C- grade in their approach. They didn't try hard . . . they tried with a minimal amount of effort and as few dollars as possible to staff the position. As a result, they currently don't have a starting QB (unless they roll with Rudolph), so they can sign a soon to be 42-year-old or draft someone (or both). I suspect they are waiting to sign Rodgers until after the compensatory pick signing penalty time frame ends (after the draft ends and starting 4/29). Time will tell if they continue their usual approach to fixing the QB situation will yield different results. (I have my doubts, but it's impossible to tell until it plays out.)

We can disagree there in how hard they tried. No worries.

Clearly, the results (which unfortunately are not directly tied to the effort in trying) of just making the playoffs were not enough.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The other side of this coin is M Tomlin's defense. The most money in the league spent to (again) be the playoff doormat.

That's fair. If you lean toward a focus on defense as Pittsburgh does, the expectations are higher.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The other side of this coin is M Tomlin's defense. The most money in the league spent to (again) be the playoff doormat.

That's fair. If you lean toward a focus on defense as Pittsburgh does, the expectations are higher.

If nothing else, you need to get your side of the ball right. Tomlin is a defensive guy, yet his D gave up 29 to Tebow, 45 Bortles and 48 to Baker (back when Baker was still iffy) in playoff games. That is just putrid. If he was losing playoff games 13-10, we could at least say his side of the ball has been carrying their weight and the lack of offense is killing them, but his defenses regularly get taken to the woodshed.

 

[menobrown]

I get it, they made some moves, and the moves didn't work out.

Yes. That was my point. I was interested in the perceived lack of effort from the team in making moves. The first round QB they drafted and the free agent QBs they added didn't work out. That's pretty common. But that's different from not trying.

On a future note, the responses if they add a particular aging free agent QB this year will be gold.

Yes, the Steelers tried. I'd give them a C- grade in their approach. They didn't try hard . . . they tried with a minimal amount of effort and as few dollars as possible to staff the position. As a result, they currently don't have a starting QB (unless they roll with Rudolph), so they can sign a soon to be 42-year-old or draft someone (or both). I suspect they are waiting to sign Rodgers until after the compensatory pick signing penalty time frame ends (after the draft ends and starting 4/29). Time will tell if they continue their usual approach to fixing the QB situation will yield different results. (I have my doubts, but it's impossible to tell until it plays out.)

We can disagree there in how hard they tried. No worries.

Clearly, the results (which unfortunately are not directly tied to the effort in trying) of just making the playoffs were not enough.

I’d give him them an A+ for how they addressed the QB situation last year. Brilliant really.

They landed two competent level NFL Qb's for a 6th round pick and about $6m total, and they are getting back a 4th and 5th round comp picks in 2027.

TBD on this off-season but if they land Rodgers I'll be high on what they did relative to their resources.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I voted yes fire. As was stated earlier this reminds me of late 2000’s Eagles and Andy Reid. Had a ton of success and rarely had a “bad” season but at some point it was clear we were never going to get over the hump. Andy had the additional baggage of his son overdosing at the training facility but everyone breathed an optimistic sigh of relief here when they parted ways. And it worked out for both parties big time.

Eight Super Bowl appearances and five championships between the two in the eleven years since they parted ways. Sometimes you need a new message/messenger.

 

[Anarchy99]

I’d give him them an A+ for how they addressed the QB situation last year. Brilliant really.

They landed two competent level NFL Qb's for a 6th round pick and about $6m total, and they are getting back a 4th and 5th round comp picks in 2027.

TBD on this off-season but if they land Rodgers I'll be high on what they did relative to their resources.

I guess this is where I differ. "Competent" QB rarely wins titles unless the rest of the roster is phenomenal. Normally, teams that don't pay much at the QB position end up having a much stronger roster because of it. What were the Steelers really got at last year? They ranked 16th in offensive points scored, 23rd in offensive yardage, 8th in points allowed, and 12th in yards allowed. They ranked 27th in passing offense and 25th in passing defense. IMO, they didn't really benefit from not paying much at the QB position. On top of that, they are now where they were last year . . . still looking for a QB. And they will probably go the same route and sign the old veteran QB that no one really wants in Rodgers. Maybe they will get "competent" QB play from him, but teams that win usually have top-tier QBs, not middle of the road guys. I get that the Eagles didn't have peak Mahomes or Manning winning with Hurts, but he still played well, and the rest of the team was stacked. In the Steelers case, I don't think the rest of the team is stacked, only emphasizing even more that "competent" likely won't be enough.

 

[menobrown]

I’d give him them an A+ for how they addressed the QB situation last year. Brilliant really.

They landed two competent level NFL Qb's for a 6th round pick and about $6m total, and they are getting back a 4th and 5th round comp picks in 2027.

TBD on this off-season but if they land Rodgers I'll be high on what they did relative to their resources.

I guess this is where I differ. "Competent" QB rarely wins titles unless the rest of the roster is phenomenal. Normally, teams that don't pay much at the QB position end up having a much stronger roster because of it. What were the Steelers really got at last year? They ranked 16th in offensive points scored, 23rd in offensive yardage, 8th in points allowed, and 12th in yards allowed. They ranked 27th in passing offense and 25th in passing defense. IMO, they didn't really benefit from not paying much at the QB position. On top of that, they are now where they were last year . . . still looking for a QB. And they will probably go the same route and sign the old veteran QB that no one really wants in Rodgers. Maybe they will get "competent" QB play from him, but teams that win usually have top-tier QBs, not middle of the road guys. I get that the Eagles didn't have peak Mahomes or Manning winning with Hurts, but he still played well, and the rest of the team was stacked. In the Steelers case, I don't think the rest of the team is stacked, only emphasizing even more that "competent" likely won't be enough.

So what you would you have had them do?

Also they did benefit from not paying a QB top dollar. Contracts like Queen's deal but probably others.

 

[nightmare]

I get it, they made some moves, and the moves didn't work out.

Yes. That was my point. I was interested in the perceived lack of effort from the team in making moves. The first round QB they drafted and the free agent QBs they added didn't work out. That's pretty common. But that's different from not trying.

On a future note, the responses if they add a particular aging free agent QB this year will be gold.

Yes, the Steelers tried. I'd give them a C- grade in their approach. They didn't try hard . . . they tried with a minimal amount of effort and as few dollars as possible to staff the position. As a result, they currently don't have a starting QB (unless they roll with Rudolph), so they can sign a soon to be 42-year-old or draft someone (or both). I suspect they are waiting to sign Rodgers until after the compensatory pick signing penalty time frame ends (after the draft ends and starting 4/29). Time will tell if they continue their usual approach to fixing the QB situation will yield different results. (I have my doubts, but it's impossible to tell until it plays out.)

We can disagree there in how hard they tried. No worries.

Clearly, the results (which unfortunately are not directly tied to the effort in trying) of just making the playoffs were not enough.

I’d give him them an A+ for how they addressed the QB situation last year. Brilliant really.

They landed two competent level NFL Qb's for a 6th round pick and about $6m total, and they are getting back a 4th and 5th round comp picks in 2027.

TBD on this off-season but if they land Rodgers I'll be high on what they did relative to their resources.

This kills me. "Two competent level QB's" maybe. Steelers still need a QB.

The Steelers need a "franchise" NFL ready QB to get them past the first round of the playoffs.
A Rodgers might get them one maybe two years of that. This is the cheapest option on doing it.

 

[menobrown]

I get it, they made some moves, and the moves didn't work out.

Yes. That was my point. I was interested in the perceived lack of effort from the team in making moves. The first round QB they drafted and the free agent QBs they added didn't work out. That's pretty common. But that's different from not trying.

On a future note, the responses if they add a particular aging free agent QB this year will be gold.

Yes, the Steelers tried. I'd give them a C- grade in their approach. They didn't try hard . . . they tried with a minimal amount of effort and as few dollars as possible to staff the position. As a result, they currently don't have a starting QB (unless they roll with Rudolph), so they can sign a soon to be 42-year-old or draft someone (or both). I suspect they are waiting to sign Rodgers until after the compensatory pick signing penalty time frame ends (after the draft ends and starting 4/29). Time will tell if they continue their usual approach to fixing the QB situation will yield different results. (I have my doubts, but it's impossible to tell until it plays out.)

We can disagree there in how hard they tried. No worries.

Clearly, the results (which unfortunately are not directly tied to the effort in trying) of just making the playoffs were not enough.

I’d give him them an A+ for how they addressed the QB situation last year. Brilliant really.

They landed two competent level NFL Qb's for a 6th round pick and about $6m total, and they are getting back a 4th and 5th round comp picks in 2027.

TBD on this off-season but if they land Rodgers I'll be high on what they did relative to their resources.

This kills me. "Two competent level QB's" maybe. Steelers still need a QB.

The Steelers need a "franchise" NFL ready QB to get them past the first round of the playoffs.
A Rodgers might get them one maybe two years of that. This is the cheapest option on doing it.

Yes they got two competent level QB's, one that the Jets just guaranteed $30m to their starter and the other then frontrunner to start for the Giants and they get back two nice comp picks. That's a smashing success to me.

But I'll ask you the same question I asked Anarchy? How would you have got them their QB of the future last year in a draft where 6 QB's were gone by pick 12 and they drafted in the 20's? Just would like to know what everyone's solution and that's giving you all the benefit of after the fact analysis to know chasing someone like Cousins was a bad move.. Tell me what you'd have done differently? Better yet, find a post you made last year where you had a viable plan and are not now relying on after the fact data.

 

[Anarchy99]

So what you would you have had them do?

If I were the Steelers GM, I would have been more aggressive as far back as 2018 or 2019. (My opinion would be the same for all teams, not just PIT: be bolder on going after QBs.) IMO, the huge majority of draft picks don't pan out. I would have used draft capital or player assets to move up in the drafts that the Steelers DIDN'T make a pick in (ie, the ones with better QBs). I mentioned earlier that the Packers have done a good job of moving on from long-time QBs. Yet teams like the Saints, Giants, Broncos, and Patriots didn't do a great job in moving on from their HOF QB (at the very least, it took a while).

Looking at who the Steelers drafted in recent drafts, they invested in a lot in WRs . . . Wilson (84), Pickens (52), Claypool (49), Johnson (66), Washington (60), and JuJu (62). That's 6 WR across 8 drafts. IMO, if they offered a first and one of those seconds to move up for a QB somewhere along the line, they would have likely had someone better than Pickett. (They twice made trades involving their first-round picks for safeties . . . QBs impact the game way more than safeties do.) Since that didn't happen, it's impossible to know what would have happened. Like many other teams, had they taken Lamar (instead of Terrell Edmunds), they would have had an entirely different trajectory since then. (I am also aware that they could have made a bigger move for a QB and things still could have gone south.)

Secondary to making a move to draft someone, I would have gone after one of the established QBs on the market that was still a regular starter and not someone that was already relegated to backup duty or over 35 years old. If PIT had moved up the draft board, I would probably still have signed or acquired one of the other guys (Baker, Darnold, Jimmy G, Cousins, Geno, etc.). At least those guys were established and still playing. Fields didn't show much as a passer in CHI and Wilson had wore out his welcome with two teams.

Sorry my answer doesn't fit the question that you and Joe both have (what should the Steelers have done LAST YEAR?), as the way I would have had them do things would likely have avoided being in the position they were in at last year's draft. Maybe my plan wouldn't have worked out either, but I would have had different QBs on my roster than PIT did. And who knows if that would have worked out better or not.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

. I suspect they are waiting to sign Rodgers until after the compensatory pick signing penalty time frame ends

Doesn't matter with A-A-ron. He was cut.

I think they are waiting....because Aaron is waiting. They've painted themselves into a corner, and are basically willing to give him a very long leash to "decide" because they're pretty much out of options (other than "just going with Rudolph" which they've already signaled they're okay with, by the mere fact they brought him back into the org).

Rodgers is shuffling papers waiting to see if the Vikings change their mind, IMO. He will "deign" to play for Pittsburgh if he has no other options, but he doesn't seem to be in a big hurry to climb aboard. That alone should make it clear to the team the juice isn't worth the squeeze here...but that's just my opinion.

 

[nightmare]

I get it, they made some moves, and the moves didn't work out.

Yes. That was my point. I was interested in the perceived lack of effort from the team in making moves. The first round QB they drafted and the free agent QBs they added didn't work out. That's pretty common. But that's different from not trying.

On a future note, the responses if they add a particular aging free agent QB this year will be gold.

Yes, the Steelers tried. I'd give them a C- grade in their approach. They didn't try hard . . . they tried with a minimal amount of effort and as few dollars as possible to staff the position. As a result, they currently don't have a starting QB (unless they roll with Rudolph), so they can sign a soon to be 42-year-old or draft someone (or both). I suspect they are waiting to sign Rodgers until after the compensatory pick signing penalty time frame ends (after the draft ends and starting 4/29). Time will tell if they continue their usual approach to fixing the QB situation will yield different results. (I have my doubts, but it's impossible to tell until it plays out.)

We can disagree there in how hard they tried. No worries.

Clearly, the results (which unfortunately are not directly tied to the effort in trying) of just making the playoffs were not enough.

I’d give him them an A+ for how they addressed the QB situation last year. Brilliant really.

They landed two competent level NFL Qb's for a 6th round pick and about $6m total, and they are getting back a 4th and 5th round comp picks in 2027.

TBD on this off-season but if they land Rodgers I'll be high on what they did relative to their resources.

This kills me. "Two competent level QB's" maybe. Steelers still need a QB.

The Steelers need a "franchise" NFL ready QB to get them past the first round of the playoffs.
A Rodgers might get them one maybe two years of that. This is the cheapest option on doing it.

Yes they got two competent level QB's, one that the Jets just guaranteed $30m to their starter and the other then frontrunner to start for the Giants and they get back two nice comp picks. That's a smashing success to me.

But I'll ask you the same question I asked Anarchy? How would you have got them their QB of the future last year in a draft where 6 QB's were gone by pick 12 and they drafted in the 20's? Just would like to know what everyone's solution and that's giving you all the benefit of after the fact analysis to know chasing someone like Cousins was a bad move.. Tell me what you'd have done differently? Better yet, find a post you made last year where you had a viable plan and are not now relying on after the fact data.

Free agency/trade take the bigger risk shot. Geno Smith or Sam Darnold. Cousins was not a bad move because it turned out bad.
The Steelers have to recognize that they have to pay the price to move up in a draft and get a QB. They don't develop QB's and all of
these guys they got on the cheap aren't working.

I'm not/didn't go into the Steeler thread to piss on that parade. This thread is specific to what I think the problem is.
Smashing success? l'm not going to go there.

 

[menobrown]

Sorry my answer doesn't fit the question that you and Joe both have (what should the Steelers have done LAST YEAR?)

Thanks for trying to answer but you are right it did not answer the question of what they could have directly done last year or really even what I viewed as a viable plan before last year.

This is one of the pitfalls of constantly picking late and they of course already reached for PIckett in this range which paused the QB search for 2 years.

I'd also add I've always thought the Ron Wolf strategy of taking a QB every year was great. I'd like to be critical of the Steelers for not taking that approach but I also think it's kind of weak to do so unless I was pin pointing exactly which QB they should have done this with and not relying on after the fact info(like ripping them for not drafting Purdy). Reality is it's been rare for almost all of these mid to late round QB's to amount to anything.

 

[Anarchy99]

Reality is it's been rare for almost all of these mid to late round QB's to amount to anything.

This I agree on . . . which is why PIT needed to either move up, sign a better class of free agent, or trade for someone . . . exploring those options BEFORE Ben ran out of gas. One would think Tomlin and the Steelers front office realize that there aren't very many top QBs that fall into the 20s then come up with an action plan to combat that. This was not a PIT issue . . . it's a league wide issue.

The Wilson and Rodgers approach strikes me very similar to what BB did with NE and Cam. Wait out the market until teams all have their QBs and then sign whoever is left on a cheap deal. But there are probably reasons why all these guys were on the market, teams didn't really want or embrace them, and they are/were pretty far from the top in terms of top QBs. The only options they have are sticking with the same strategy and hope it works or try another approach.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Sorry my answer doesn't fit the question that you and Joe both have (what should the Steelers have done LAST YEAR?)

Thanks for trying to answer but you are right it did not answer the question of what they could have directly done last year or really even what I viewed as a viable plan before last year.

This is one of the pitfalls of constantly picking late and they of course already reached for PIckett in this range which paused the QB search for 2 years.

I'd also add I've always thought the Ron Wolf strategy of taking a QB every year was great. I'd like to be critical of the Steelers for not taking that approach but I also think it's kind of weak to do so unless I was pin pointing exactly which QB they should have done this with and not relying on after the fact info(like ripping them for not drafting Purdy). Reality is it's been rare for almost all of these mid to late round QB's to amount to anything.

Yup. Just go out and get a great QB. Simple.

 

[sm8680]

Mike Tomlin began his NFL coaching career as a defensive backs coach for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers from 2001 to 2005. His success in Tampa, particularly under defensive-minded head coach Jon Gruden, helped him land the defensive coordinator position with the Minnesota Vikings in 2006. After just one season in Minnesota, Tomlin leveraged that opportunity into a head coaching job with the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2007, where he has remained ever since, becoming one of the longest-tenured and most respected coaches in the league. At the time most people in Pittsburgh thought the job would go inhouse to Ken Whisenhunt or Russ Grimm. For the most part Pittsburgher's were Mike who. I'm fairly harsh on Mike for I view him like Barry Switzer who won a Superbowl with Jimmy Johnson's guys.

The Steelers have had their fair share of bad luck at quarterback. Dwayne Haskins looked like he was turning the corner, and Justin Fields showed promise. But in the end, draft position doesn’t determine success a good quarterback is always out there. Sometimes, it just comes down to luck, like the Patriots stumbling upon Tom Brady or the 49ers finding a gem in Brock Purdy. And there are plenty more examples just like them.

 

[menobrown]

The Wilson and Rodgers approach strikes me very similar to what BB did with NE and Cam. Wait out the market until teams all have their QBs and then sign whoever is left on a cheap deal.

Steelers signed Wilson last year immediately when FA opened. They did not wait the market out. At that point they felt Wilson would compete against Pickett who was entering year 3 and they had not given up on him yet. Soon after the swung the deal for Fields which led to Pickett wanting out but they'd been in on those Fields talks since he was available. Again they were not waiting the market out.

This year is TBD and if they get stuck with Rudolph and desperately trying to find someone to compete with him they'll be open to criticism. But I believe the reporting I've heard that Rodgers was always Plan A this off-season and I'm withholding judgment until this is finalized as they know things we don't know.I am on record, have posts here going back to January or February, that if Rodgers was available he was the best option for the Steelers, more then Fields or Wilson. So again I'm witholding judgment.

As for it being like NE and Cam. With all due respect that's the difference between doing it and doing it well, why I gave the Steelers an A+. I feel like both QB's performed better then Cam and we know Cam did not exit for compensatory picks. What the Vikings did with Darnold and the Steelers with both QB's last year deserves a lot of praise, you get your starting QB's for cheap that perform to a level you are playoff teams and then you get picks for them. I'll die on this hill saying that deserves kudos.

This I agree on . . . which is why PIT needed to either move up, sign a better class of free agent, or trade for someone . . . exploring those options BEFORE Ben ran out of gas. One would think Tomlin and the Steelers front office realize that there aren't very many top QBs that fall into the 20s then come up with an action plan to combat that. This was not a PIT issue . . . it's a league wide issue.

What team with a future HOF QB still playing at a high level makes a big trade up? At most you see some move into the back of the round one but you don't see those massive trade up situations it would have required.

If you study Big Bens timeline I just don't think the opportunity presented itself. Just looking at the QB's available the last few years you knew he was winding down and their draft capital it just did not present itself.

There have been some possible shots. Missing on Lamar was the biggest. Purdy as mentioned. But as you said about it being a league wide issue it's also almost the entire league who missed on those players. I truly apprecaite that no one here brought up those misses as a Steeler lack of trying issue but if they had I'd simply ask them to share their thoughts on Purdy and Lamar before they hit.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

There have been some possible shots. Missing on Lamar was the biggest. Purdy as mentioned

As I've discussed in the team thread (and yammered about in his draft year) ignoring Hurts in 2020 was an obvious glaring "bungle" in this regard. He didnt even require a 1st to acquire, was precisely the sort of QB the front office espoused was what they coveted (e.g. leader, takes care of the football, mobile), and Ben was clearly on the downside/brittle by then.

I expect there is practically no way they would have developed him as well as the Eagles have, but that is irrelevant to the conversation that he is precisely whom they should have targeted in that draft at quarterback and didn't. But Chase Claypool turned out gre....oh. Wait. Right.

 

[Zow]

I always think to myself, "who can they replace him with that would be better?"

I'm not coming up with anybody.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

I always think to myself, "who can they replace him with that would be better?"

I'm not coming up with anybody.

"The next Tomlin"?

The last two times the Steelers have hired a coach, they were replacing beloved icons in Noll and Cowher. Also the last two times they hired a coach, it was widely expected they would go with an internal candidate, but then hired an outside guy that made most people say "Ummm...who?"

Both those guys wound up ridiculously successful. Not being able to come up with a better guy in the moment doesnt necessarily mean the team couldnt come up wth a better one (better for where they are as a team right now, that is) after an exhaustive search.

Tomlin wound up near perfect for them when hired: Steelers were a veteran team that was essentially "policed" by guys like Ward, Faneca, Troy, Smith, and Farrior. Cowher's messaging had begun to grow stale (sound familiar?) and he seemed to be losing some of his taste for the grind of being a HC. Enter Tomlin; young, focused, could relate to the players better, and that seemed to motivate even the old guard.

After nearly a couple decades, they've closed the loop. Tomlin's messaging is now what's stale. They dont need a "motivator" as much at present. They desperately need an "innovator", IMO. Preferably an offensively gifted one.

 

[amnesiac]

keep him.

signed,

a Browns fan

 

[Joe Bryant]

I always think to myself, "who can they replace him with that would be better?"

I'm not coming up with anybody.

You're thinking too rationally.

 

[Joe Bryant]

They desperately need an "innovator", IMO. Preferably an offensively gifted one.

As much as I like Tomlin, I think in today's NFL If I owned a team, I'd go for an offensive minded head coach if I were starting from scratch. Preferably one that calls their own plays so you're not in the constant churn replacing the offensive coordinator every year.

 

[JohnnyU]

They desperately need an "innovator", IMO. Preferably an offensively gifted one.

As much as I like Tomlin, I think in today's NFL If I owned a team, I'd go for an offensive minded head coach if I were starting from scratch. Preferably one that calls their own plays so you're not in the constant churn replacing the offensive coordinator every year.

Yes, then you’re having to replace the bad play calling coach every year.

 

[Zow]

I always think to myself, "who can they replace him with that would be better?"

I'm not coming up with anybody.

You're thinking too rationally.

I hate it when I do that.

 

[Snotbubbles]

They desperately need an "innovator", IMO. Preferably an offensively gifted one.

As much as I like Tomlin, I think in today's NFL If I owned a team, I'd go for an offensive minded head coach if I were starting from scratch. Preferably one that calls their own plays so you're not in the constant churn replacing the offensive coordinator every year.

Eagles have had 4 OC in 4 years. There are only so many Andy Reid's out there.

 

[Joe Bryant]

They desperately need an "innovator", IMO. Preferably an offensively gifted one.

As much as I like Tomlin, I think in today's NFL If I owned a team, I'd go for an offensive minded head coach if I were starting from scratch. Preferably one that calls their own plays so you're not in the constant churn replacing the offensive coordinator every year.

Eagles have had 4 OC in 4 years. There are only so many Andy Reid's out there.

Right. The Eagles are a great example of the challenges of replacing the OC every year. Would be great if they didn't have to do that. But obviously, they've been super successful.

But it does put a spotlight for me on why I put such high value on the Andy Reids, Shanahans, McVays of the league. HC / Offensive Play Caller is my preference. But they are not common.

 

[BassNBrew]

I voted on the fence, but I think the huge mistake was not giving Fields more run last year. He was 4-2 in his starts and well over his career completion percentage at 66%. You potentially had a franchise QB, you were winning games....zero reason to switch to Russ.

 

[-OZ-]

It’s unlikely but I think they should have traded him to a team like Jaguars where they have a QB in place but can’t get the coach right.

 

[renesauz]

Not sure why Tomlin is getting so much heat (admittedly more from disgruntled Steelers fans it seems). The team is mediocre because they don't have a franchise QB. Is that the fault of the head coach or the GM? Is it the fault of EITHER?
How many franchise signal callers have come out the last few years? It seems in 3 of the last 4 years, the draft has been weak at QB. And since Tomlin always has the Steelers competitive, they haven't been in a position to take one in those 3 years that were lean. The one time it was deep enough that they could? Last year, when they had just acquired Wilson and Fields cheap. While I don't like that plan a ton, it was certainly a good effort and hardly unreasonable at all. It's hard to give them flak for not investing a first last year.

So is it Tomlins fault that he has lacked a QB? Or does he deserve a lot of credit for getting so many mediocre to bad teams to winning records? Personally I think the second

 

[pghrob]

Not sure why Tomlin is getting so much heat (admittedly more from disgruntled Steelers fans it seems). The team is mediocre because they don't have a franchise QB. Is that the fault of the head coach or the GM? Is it the fault of EITHER?
How many franchise signal callers have come out the last few years? It seems in 3 of the last 4 years, the draft has been weak at QB. And since Tomlin always has the Steelers competitive, they haven't been in a position to take one in those 3 years that were lean. The one time it was deep enough that they could? Last year, when they had just acquired Wilson and Fields cheap. While I don't like that plan a ton, it was certainly a good effort and hardly unreasonable at all. It's hard to give them flak for not investing a first last year.

So is it Tomlins fault that he has lacked a QB? Or does he deserve a lot of credit for getting so many mediocre to bad teams to winning records? Personally I think the second

Tomlin failed to deliver on The Standard when he had prime versions of Roethlisberger, Brown, and Bell.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

The notion that Tomlin has been "shepherding teams that are bereft of talent to overachieve" for a couple decades is....cute. No wonder so many people give him so much credit.

Their defense has been stacked for probably 90% of his career. Do I even need to waste the "ink" listing all the difference makers, including at minimum two HoFers? They have spent, and continue to spend, ridonkulous sums on the defensive side of the football in Tomlin's time there.

Offensively, he had prime Roeth, Heeeeath, Wallace, the Killer Bs and a very good-to-great set of OL through circa 2015/17. After, he had a still productive "Old Cowboy" Ben, James Conner, JuJu and pre-insanity Diontae Johnson until 4 seasons ago.

Outside a couple years with bad injuries to Ben or one of their aces on D, he had plenty of talent more years than not up until probably 2020/21.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I voted no. Tomlin’s a good coach.

 

[drummer]

PIT went DT at the 21st pick this round. There is no franchise QB in PIT anywhere in the near future.