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No indictment in NYPD chokehold death (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CowboysFromHell
- Start date
whiskey7
Footballguy
OK. I'm listening. Make it all legal and then...what?
Jack White
Footballguy
"Legalize" is the wrong term.
The consumption of ANY drug should never have been "illegal" in the first place.
Ask yourself this: who owns you? Who owns your body?
If you own yourself . . . if you own your own body . . . you can ingest anything you want.
The way it is now, the state owns your body and dictates to you what you can ingest.
whiskey7
Footballguy
I always love that one
whiskey7
Footballguy
Ah, but what if the stuff I like to ingest makes me a violent menace to society who (when jonesin for a hit) will lie, steal, attack, etc until I get it? Don't you have a right to not be victimized by a maniac like me? Who will help protect you from me? And are those tasked with that duty out of line for trying to keep me off the substance that has proven to lead to nothing but destruction?
Jack White
Footballguy
whiskey7
Footballguy
I get what you're saying. I just think (if the legal deterrent is removed) we'd have even more people hooked on the hard drugs and that would lead to even more stealing and attacking than we already have. I think there are a lot of people out there that don't do drugs because they're afraid of getting busted and/or because some of the hard #### has a dirty stigma attached to it. Remove the legal deterrent and you're going to have more people willing to try it. Make it available in stores (rather than alleys) and the stigma fades and you're going to have more people who try it who otherwise wouldn't. Do we really want to make it that much easier for a bunch of amateurs to try crack, smack, meth, etc? I mean, there's plenty of people who are going to do it, anyways. Legal or not. But how many additional people are going to get in on it if it's legal and that much easier to get?
Jack White
Footballguy
Would you smoke crack and meth if it were legal?
whiskey7
Footballguy
Today? No chance in hell. When I was 19 and thought I was invincible? Still probably not but maybe. And perhaps that's what scares me is it would be that much easier for our young people to get and make a bad choice that they would pay dearly for. Maybe I am just naive...
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Did you drink alcohol at 19? Did you ever smoke weed? Did you ever look at porn or smoke tobacco before you were 18?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Any 19 year old can get it anyway.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
This should probably spin off into a new thread. Sounds like a good discussion. You lefties have a ways to go before you convince me that legalizing all drugs is a good idea.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
How about a non-lefty then? The War on Drugs has mutated the criminal justice system and has increased the power of the government significantly, seriously hindering the protections of the Bill of Rights that are afforded to us. Almost any criminal law and criminal system overstepping of power that we see happen these days (search warrants, wire tapping, etc. etc.) found either its genesis in the War on Drugs or the War on Drugs significantly increased the power of the government to side step the spirit of the liberties we are supposed to enjoy.
No true small government conservative should support the War on Drugs. It has been one of the most important and powerful weapons used by the federal government to become a imperial-like government that those conservatives attack and fear.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
I guess that's what makes this issue so interesting. The idea of legalizing all drugs sounds to me like a very socially liberal idea - that's what I meant by "lefties", knowing full well there are a lot of folks out there that identify as "fiscally conservative, socially liberal", i.e. libertarian. Definitely agree with your position on the WAR on drugs as a big government thing that makes libertarians squirm. I'm still not convinced we can't fix the issues with the WAR on drugs without simply legalizing all of the drugs.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
whiskey7
Footballguy
Yes to all of the above. They were all very easy for me to get. If I would have had to go out of my way more to get any of it, I likely would not have.
That gets said a lot these days but I would like to think its not completely true. I think (or perhaps hope is more accurate) that there are still many people out there that would not know where to start when it came to getting some of these drugs and/or are more scared of getting busted for having them than they are curious to try them. And maybe either of those is the difference between them trying it or not. Make it that much easier to get and completely legal and I bet more people try. Admittedly, I could be highly naïve there. From my own experience, the first party I remember going to in high school was at a friends house and his older brother bought a keg. So we drank beer because that's what was there. There were no drugs there (that I knew of) and I had no inclination to go seek them out. If the drugs were truly as easy to get as a keg, maybe there would have been some at that party and maybe I would have partaken. Certainly, a person can get plenty messed-up off booze (even to the point of death), but its more likely someone will puke before they do that much damage to themselves and they're not going to get hooked on booze that first time. With the real hardcore drugs, I am not sure either of those things is true. Everything I read about the new #### that's out there now is its real, real bad news. Scary stuff
Good call. I am certainly guilty of helping take this discussion off-topic so from here on I will stick to the Garner case or more closely related discussion.
rockaction
Footballguy
I don't support the WoD (band or policy -- yeah, I know, I have to. I ####### hate that band.) and I'm conservative. I think Yankee23Fan spelled it out wonderfully from a BoR point of view, but there are also utile and individualistic concerns.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
I think there are probably lots of things we could do to "fix" the issues that have been raised with the "war" on drugs. I don't think the only alternative is to legalize all drugs. I'm admittedly not well versed on this subject, but there has got to be some sort of middle ground here, right?
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Guy died because he was fat and out of shape.....
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I guess I need to know what you think the issues are. From my viewpoint, virtually all the issues are a direct result of the fact that these drugs are illegal. There's no way to get rid of the issues while continuing the prohibition.
timschochet
Footballguy
i'm happy this response hasn't been more popular around here I feared it might be...
Alonzo Mosely
Footballguy
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
If those are my only 2 choices, I would choose to continue the war on drugs. Convince me otherwise (but please start a separate thread!).
To answer your direct question, I don't have enough to convince me the issues are that bad to necessitate a 180 degree turn. Or, that the issues are so bad that they significantly outweigh the issues that would be introduced should we make that 180 degree turn and legalize all drugs.
squistion
Footballguy
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Well that worked as planned....Brought the thread back to where it belongs.squistion said:
Jack White
Footballguy
Check your assumptions.CowboysFromHell said:
I am not a lefty.
Alonzo Mosely
Footballguy
For me, the fact that we are far and away the leader in incarcerations per capita. The main reason for that is the criminalization of what is a victimless crime. We then compound that by locking these people up with violent offenders which will often force them to become more violent or latch on to a gang for survival purposes. I think you can see where this is going.CowboysFromHell said:
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Sorry if I contributed to ruining the thread. It may need a spinoff. When I posted, I assumed the thread would be a mess as these things tend to devolve into. I do strongly believe the policies of the WoD are very significant when discussing police conduct in urban America.
CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
No worries from my perspective. I thought it was a good tangent and deserved a separate thread, so as not to get lost in here.
timschochet
Footballguy
You were fine . I never pay attention to this "thread is ruined" or. "thread is unreadable" crap. If it's so unreadable why are you reading it? If you want the direction of the thread changed then change it. Those whiners have nothing constructive to add.
James Daulton
Footballguy
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but this issue brings it to the forefront for me again. Why I intellectually understand that blacks have a much different experience with the police than us white folks do, why is there so much outrage over these two killings? Why isn't there as much outrage over the fact that a young black mans most likely cause of death is at the hands of another young black man? Or that the large majority of black children are born to single mothers.
Say this police issue is magically fixed, will black society become prosperous and thriving? Why aren't these issues being brought to everyone's attention with protest and marches?
Say this police issue is magically fixed, will black society become prosperous and thriving? Why aren't these issues being brought to everyone's attention with protest and marches?
It is all about being victims and blaming others for their problems. It is a mindset that is a vicious cycle. Instead of having a mindset of overcoming obstacles and doing what it takes to succeed, it becomes one where there is a feeling of hopelessness and any small setback means doom.
Police have questionable killings of people of all races. You could end every killing of blacks by cops tomorrow and it would not change anything.
flapgreen
Footballguy
I know I'm out of the loop but I just got around to seeing this. That was ####ed up really bad. From what I saw on the Ferguson case, it sounded like the dude had it coming. This guy was straight up killed. ####ed up for doing nothing to these guys. Deserves protest
I don't care anything about what color the guy is. They killed him
I don't care anything about what color the guy is. They killed him
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CowboysFromHell
Footballguy
I somewhat agree with this, but you do realize that some folks have a lot more obstacles than others, right? Poor, inner city, black kids have no where near the same chance of succeeding as their middle-to-upper class, suburban, white peers.
NREC34
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Not saying anything about Eric Garner or his son, but the mom's excuse is laughable... He didn't know the bike was stolen 
The kid was caught with a stolen Citibike
Most of you prob don't know how Citibike works - They're all over the city, 20-30 bikes a location, usually every 4-6 blocks on a corner, locked up, with a membership card needed to unlock one. You can take it for 45 minutes (depending on your membership level) and return it at any Citibike location. If you are just cruising around on one, you're aware it is stolen unless you rented it.
When someone makes a claim like "he didn't know", they lose all credibility. He is 16, made a stupid mistake, and got caught... Own it - Don't pretend he didn't know it was stolen.
The kid was caught with a stolen Citibike
Most of you prob don't know how Citibike works - They're all over the city, 20-30 bikes a location, usually every 4-6 blocks on a corner, locked up, with a membership card needed to unlock one. You can take it for 45 minutes (depending on your membership level) and return it at any Citibike location. If you are just cruising around on one, you're aware it is stolen unless you rented it.
When someone makes a claim like "he didn't know", they lose all credibility. He is 16, made a stupid mistake, and got caught... Own it - Don't pretend he didn't know it was stolen.
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