"Notes on Being a Man" (1 Viewer)

[dutch]

Aww, you're swell Rock. Enjoy eating lunch alone, again.

 

[Desert_Power]

Back on topic

 

[dkp993]

Guess we really can't handle much more in here that music drafts, huh?

Careful, I got read the riot act for suggesting this a while back.

 

[dkp993]

I don't know if the 40% is accurate but it doesn't sound all that crazy. I remember reading that it is close to 1 out of 3 bars/restaurants don't survive their first year so 40% being closed since 2020 doesn't sound outrageous. I imagine that 40% doesn't take into all the new places that have opened in that timeframe though

Having run or owned restaurants and bars most of my adult life I can comfortably say that 40% closure number is correct. The problem with the statement as a whole is aligning it only with “after COVID”. It’s been that way since long before COVID. Bottom line, it’s a tough business.

 

[Mookie]

FWIW, today is International Men's Day. You can do anything you want so long as your wife or g/f says it's OK.

 

[bigbottom]

FWIW, today is International Men's Day. You can do anything you want so long as your wife or g/f says it's OK.

International Men get their own day now?

 

[Northern Voice]

I don't know if the 40% is accurate but it doesn't sound all that crazy. I remember reading that it is close to 1 out of 3 bars/restaurants don't survive their first year so 40% being closed since 2020 doesn't sound outrageous. I imagine that 40% doesn't take into all the new places that have opened in that timeframe though

Having run or owned restaurants and bars most of my adult life I can comfortably say that 40% closure number is correct. The problem with the statement as a whole is aligning it only with “after COVID”. It’s been that way since long before COVID. Bottom line, it’s a tough business.

I think tying this back to the last page about drinking/not drinking, it doesn't have to be about the alcohol itself but the decline in "third spaces" for young men these days if you take away a lot of the pubs clubs and restaurants. I feel like we had this discussion here before, Joe might have actually raised it.

For myself, as a young male a lot of those places beyond the home or work that I met with friends did involve alcohol - the bar to meet women, the pub to hear live music, the ball park (or hockey arena, gym, whatever) to play sports with a drink after most of the time.

I know in my area traditional recreational sports (in this area that means rec hockey/baseball/basketball) enrolment is way down in addition to the bars and restaurants closing - and the rec sports that are gaining in popularity (looking right at you pickleball but also badminton, curling, golf) are aimed more at higher income/boomers than young males.

 

[RCon]

I'm wondering if we have the cause and affect all wrong on some of this. That is, maybe the decline of "third places" isn't a cause of social issues, maybe it's the necessity of working a second job, overtime, or a side gig that has caused a decline in third place attendance (due to lack of time)?

 

[massraider]

Guess we really can't handle much more in here that music drafts, huh?

Careful, I dot read the riot act for suggesting this a while back.

Really.

That sucks. We should be able to call balls and strikes.

It's a bit of a bummer. It was an interesting topic.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The 40% of bars closing is the least important stat in the whole analysis - yet it is the one getting the most attention here. Interesting

Because the Earth is flat

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Also just looked this guy up.

He's a UCLA grad with an MBA from Cal.

Then rest assured, he knows plenty about not asking girls out.

 

[uwillbsoon]

I don't know if the 40% is accurate but it doesn't sound all that crazy. I remember reading that it is close to 1 out of 3 bars/restaurants don't survive their first year so 40% being closed since 2020 doesn't sound outrageous. I imagine that 40% doesn't take into all the new places that have opened in that timeframe though

Having run or owned restaurants and bars most of my adult life I can comfortably say that 40% closure number is correct. The problem with the statement as a whole is aligning it only with “after COVID”. It’s been that way since long before COVID. Bottom line, it’s a tough business.

I think tying this back to the last page about drinking/not drinking, it doesn't have to be about the alcohol itself but the decline in "third spaces" for young men these days if you take away a lot of the pubs clubs and restaurants. I feel like we had this discussion here before, Joe might have actually raised it.

For myself, as a young male a lot of those places beyond the home or work that I met with friends did involve alcohol - the bar to meet women, the pub to hear live music, the ball park (or hockey arena, gym, whatever) to play sports with a drink after most of the time.

I know in my area traditional recreational sports (in this area that means rec hockey/baseball/basketball) enrolment is way down in addition to the bars and restaurants closing - and the rec sports that are gaining in popularity (looking right at you pickleball but also badminton, curling, golf) are aimed more at higher income/boomers than young males.

Is there a decline in social spaces?

My impression is Galloway's data point is 40% (or whatever) of bars closed since the pandemic.

My guess is in the five years before the pandemic to the pandemic, that number was close to 40%.

My impression is Galloway cherry picks stats to make a point. He's a marketer. That's what they do.

Anecdotal evidence: I used to be in a coffee desert when I moved into my house twenty years ago.

Now there are three Starbucks within three miles. Those are non alcoholic gathering places that sell drinks full of sugar and caffeine that also have a "lubricating" effect that you'll find a lot of young people in.

 

[Northern Voice]

I don't know if the 40% is accurate but it doesn't sound all that crazy. I remember reading that it is close to 1 out of 3 bars/restaurants don't survive their first year so 40% being closed since 2020 doesn't sound outrageous. I imagine that 40% doesn't take into all the new places that have opened in that timeframe though

Having run or owned restaurants and bars most of my adult life I can comfortably say that 40% closure number is correct. The problem with the statement as a whole is aligning it only with “after COVID”. It’s been that way since long before COVID. Bottom line, it’s a tough business.

I think tying this back to the last page about drinking/not drinking, it doesn't have to be about the alcohol itself but the decline in "third spaces" for young men these days if you take away a lot of the pubs clubs and restaurants. I feel like we had this discussion here before, Joe might have actually raised it.

For myself, as a young male a lot of those places beyond the home or work that I met with friends did involve alcohol - the bar to meet women, the pub to hear live music, the ball park (or hockey arena, gym, whatever) to play sports with a drink after most of the time.

I know in my area traditional recreational sports (in this area that means rec hockey/baseball/basketball) enrolment is way down in addition to the bars and restaurants closing - and the rec sports that are gaining in popularity (looking right at you pickleball but also badminton, curling, golf) are aimed more at higher income/boomers than young males.

Is there a decline in social spaces?

My impression is Galloway's data point is 40% (or whatever) of bars closed since the pandemic.

My guess is in the five years before the pandemic to the pandemic, that number was close to 40%.

My impression is Galloway cherry picks stats to make a point. He's a marketer. That's what they do.

Anecdotal evidence: I used to be in a coffee desert when I moved into my house twenty years ago.

Now there are three Starbucks within three miles. Those are non alcoholic gathering places that sell drinks full of sugar and caffeine that also have a "lubricating" effect that you'll find a lot of young people in.

I guess it depends where you are but Starbucks just closed 13 locations in Toronto and laid off 900 employees at its head office, so big picture, I don't think that space is booming either.

 

[uwillbsoon]

I don't know if the 40% is accurate but it doesn't sound all that crazy. I remember reading that it is close to 1 out of 3 bars/restaurants don't survive their first year so 40% being closed since 2020 doesn't sound outrageous. I imagine that 40% doesn't take into all the new places that have opened in that timeframe though

Having run or owned restaurants and bars most of my adult life I can comfortably say that 40% closure number is correct. The problem with the statement as a whole is aligning it only with “after COVID”. It’s been that way since long before COVID. Bottom line, it’s a tough business.

I think tying this back to the last page about drinking/not drinking, it doesn't have to be about the alcohol itself but the decline in "third spaces" for young men these days if you take away a lot of the pubs clubs and restaurants. I feel like we had this discussion here before, Joe might have actually raised it.

For myself, as a young male a lot of those places beyond the home or work that I met with friends did involve alcohol - the bar to meet women, the pub to hear live music, the ball park (or hockey arena, gym, whatever) to play sports with a drink after most of the time.

I know in my area traditional recreational sports (in this area that means rec hockey/baseball/basketball) enrolment is way down in addition to the bars and restaurants closing - and the rec sports that are gaining in popularity (looking right at you pickleball but also badminton, curling, golf) are aimed more at higher income/boomers than young males.

Is there a decline in social spaces?

My impression is Galloway's data point is 40% (or whatever) of bars closed since the pandemic.

My guess is in the five years before the pandemic to the pandemic, that number was close to 40%.

My impression is Galloway cherry picks stats to make a point. He's a marketer. That's what they do.

Anecdotal evidence: I used to be in a coffee desert when I moved into my house twenty years ago.

Now there are three Starbucks within three miles. Those are non alcoholic gathering places that sell drinks full of sugar and caffeine that also have a "lubricating" effect that you'll find a lot of young people in.

I guess it depends where you are but Starbucks just closed 13 locations in Toronto and laid off 900 employees at its head office, so big picture, I don't think that space is booming either.

I don't know if the 40% is accurate but it doesn't sound all that crazy. I remember reading that it is close to 1 out of 3 bars/restaurants don't survive their first year so 40% being closed since 2020 doesn't sound outrageous. I imagine that 40% doesn't take into all the new places that have opened in that timeframe though

Having run or owned restaurants and bars most of my adult life I can comfortably say that 40% closure number is correct. The problem with the statement as a whole is aligning it only with “after COVID”. It’s been that way since long before COVID. Bottom line, it’s a tough business.

I think tying this back to the last page about drinking/not drinking, it doesn't have to be about the alcohol itself but the decline in "third spaces" for young men these days if you take away a lot of the pubs clubs and restaurants. I feel like we had this discussion here before, Joe might have actually raised it.

For myself, as a young male a lot of those places beyond the home or work that I met with friends did involve alcohol - the bar to meet women, the pub to hear live music, the ball park (or hockey arena, gym, whatever) to play sports with a drink after most of the time.

I know in my area traditional recreational sports (in this area that means rec hockey/baseball/basketball) enrolment is way down in addition to the bars and restaurants closing - and the rec sports that are gaining in popularity (looking right at you pickleball but also badminton, curling, golf) are aimed more at higher income/boomers than young males.

Is there a decline in social spaces?

My impression is Galloway's data point is 40% (or whatever) of bars closed since the pandemic.

My guess is in the five years before the pandemic to the pandemic, that number was close to 40%.

My impression is Galloway cherry picks stats to make a point. He's a marketer. That's what they do.

Anecdotal evidence: I used to be in a coffee desert when I moved into my house twenty years ago.

Now there are three Starbucks within three miles. Those are non alcoholic gathering places that sell drinks full of sugar and caffeine that also have a "lubricating" effect that you'll find a lot of young people in.

I guess it depends where you are but Starbucks just closed 13 locations in Toronto and laid off 900 employees at its head office, so big picture, I don't think that space is booming either.

Google tells me the net growth of coffee shops from 2020 to 2025 was 13000.


That's about 7%.

The growth in bars and restaurants in that time is 2%, which includes a spike in closures during the pandemic.

That data also told me that half of bars and restaurants close within five years, so "40% since the pandemic" seems normal.

This was a five second Google search so the data is likely incomplete. Since it groups snack shops in with coffee shops and restaurants with bars, it seems.

But that doesn't seem like alarming data to me at first blush.

 

[Jmiller21kg]

Galloway was on Maher last week and I thought this was a bit wild:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

The idea that people need to drink more booze in general is madness to me. Maybe it is my age talking, but far too many ruined their lives with alcohol, and we should be encouraging people in general to drink less alcohol, not more.

Ha! It’s always ironic to me when people suggest alcohol to solve loneliness. A drug that causes you to be more inauthentic and less your genuine self, which in turn is likely to make you MORE lonely. Utilizing alcohol in every social situation as a crutch is also just asking for trouble down the line.

I agree this is disturbing, maybe Maher and Galloway are fortunate to not have someone close to them whose life has been ruined by this poison.

I don’t disagree that the issue is ‘safetyism’, but I think there are a lot of factors that go into play here that have nothing to do with drugs. I recently read The Anxious Generation (very good read) and it touched on this topic. It tied in how a phone based childhood and lack of free independent play has led to this. It’s easy to stay in your bubble nowadays when you can just go live in your virtual world without any risks/issues.

 

[Northern Voice]

I don't know if the 40% is accurate but it doesn't sound all that crazy. I remember reading that it is close to 1 out of 3 bars/restaurants don't survive their first year so 40% being closed since 2020 doesn't sound outrageous. I imagine that 40% doesn't take into all the new places that have opened in that timeframe though

Having run or owned restaurants and bars most of my adult life I can comfortably say that 40% closure number is correct. The problem with the statement as a whole is aligning it only with “after COVID”. It’s been that way since long before COVID. Bottom line, it’s a tough business.

I think tying this back to the last page about drinking/not drinking, it doesn't have to be about the alcohol itself but the decline in "third spaces" for young men these days if you take away a lot of the pubs clubs and restaurants. I feel like we had this discussion here before, Joe might have actually raised it.

For myself, as a young male a lot of those places beyond the home or work that I met with friends did involve alcohol - the bar to meet women, the pub to hear live music, the ball park (or hockey arena, gym, whatever) to play sports with a drink after most of the time.

I know in my area traditional recreational sports (in this area that means rec hockey/baseball/basketball) enrolment is way down in addition to the bars and restaurants closing - and the rec sports that are gaining in popularity (looking right at you pickleball but also badminton, curling, golf) are aimed more at higher income/boomers than young males.

Is there a decline in social spaces?

My impression is Galloway's data point is 40% (or whatever) of bars closed since the pandemic.

My guess is in the five years before the pandemic to the pandemic, that number was close to 40%.

My impression is Galloway cherry picks stats to make a point. He's a marketer. That's what they do.

Anecdotal evidence: I used to be in a coffee desert when I moved into my house twenty years ago.

Now there are three Starbucks within three miles. Those are non alcoholic gathering places that sell drinks full of sugar and caffeine that also have a "lubricating" effect that you'll find a lot of young people in.

I guess it depends where you are but Starbucks just closed 13 locations in Toronto and laid off 900 employees at its head office, so big picture, I don't think that space is booming either.

I don't know if the 40% is accurate but it doesn't sound all that crazy. I remember reading that it is close to 1 out of 3 bars/restaurants don't survive their first year so 40% being closed since 2020 doesn't sound outrageous. I imagine that 40% doesn't take into all the new places that have opened in that timeframe though

Having run or owned restaurants and bars most of my adult life I can comfortably say that 40% closure number is correct. The problem with the statement as a whole is aligning it only with “after COVID”. It’s been that way since long before COVID. Bottom line, it’s a tough business.

I think tying this back to the last page about drinking/not drinking, it doesn't have to be about the alcohol itself but the decline in "third spaces" for young men these days if you take away a lot of the pubs clubs and restaurants. I feel like we had this discussion here before, Joe might have actually raised it.

For myself, as a young male a lot of those places beyond the home or work that I met with friends did involve alcohol - the bar to meet women, the pub to hear live music, the ball park (or hockey arena, gym, whatever) to play sports with a drink after most of the time.

I know in my area traditional recreational sports (in this area that means rec hockey/baseball/basketball) enrolment is way down in addition to the bars and restaurants closing - and the rec sports that are gaining in popularity (looking right at you pickleball but also badminton, curling, golf) are aimed more at higher income/boomers than young males.

Is there a decline in social spaces?

My impression is Galloway's data point is 40% (or whatever) of bars closed since the pandemic.

My guess is in the five years before the pandemic to the pandemic, that number was close to 40%.

My impression is Galloway cherry picks stats to make a point. He's a marketer. That's what they do.

Anecdotal evidence: I used to be in a coffee desert when I moved into my house twenty years ago.

Now there are three Starbucks within three miles. Those are non alcoholic gathering places that sell drinks full of sugar and caffeine that also have a "lubricating" effect that you'll find a lot of young people in.

I guess it depends where you are but Starbucks just closed 13 locations in Toronto and laid off 900 employees at its head office, so big picture, I don't think that space is booming either.

Google tells me the net growth of coffee shops from 2020 to 2025 was 13000.


That's about 7%.

The growth in bars and restaurants in that time is 2%, which includes a spike in closures during the pandemic.

That data also told me that half of bars and restaurants close within five years, so "40% since the pandemic" seems normal.

This was a five second Google search so the data is likely incomplete. Since it groups snack shops in with coffee shops and restaurants with bars, it seems.

But that doesn't seem like alarming data to me at first blush.

Streets tell me this isn't right.

Oh, and my job owning a brewery and running out of places to sell to.

 

[Northern Voice]

Galloway was on Maher last week and I thought this was a bit wild:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

The idea that people need to drink more booze in general is madness to me. Maybe it is my age talking, but far too many ruined their lives with alcohol, and we should be encouraging people in general to drink less alcohol, not more.

Ha! It’s always ironic to me when people suggest alcohol to solve loneliness. A drug that causes you to be more inauthentic and less your genuine self, which in turn is likely to make you MORE lonely. Utilizing alcohol in every social situation as a crutch is also just asking for trouble down the line.

I agree this is disturbing, maybe Maher and Galloway are fortunate to not have someone close to them whose life has been ruined by this poison.

I don’t disagree that the issue is ‘safetyism’, but I think there are a lot of factors that go into play here that have nothing to do with drugs. I recently read The Anxious Generation (very good read) and it touched on this topic. It tied in how a phone based childhood and lack of free independent play has led to this. It’s easy to stay in your bubble nowadays when you can just go live in your virtual world without any risks/issues.

Are you married? How did you meet you wife? Still together?

 

[uwillbsoon]

I don't know if the 40% is accurate but it doesn't sound all that crazy. I remember reading that it is close to 1 out of 3 bars/restaurants don't survive their first year so 40% being closed since 2020 doesn't sound outrageous. I imagine that 40% doesn't take into all the new places that have opened in that timeframe though

Having run or owned restaurants and bars most of my adult life I can comfortably say that 40% closure number is correct. The problem with the statement as a whole is aligning it only with “after COVID”. It’s been that way since long before COVID. Bottom line, it’s a tough business.

I think tying this back to the last page about drinking/not drinking, it doesn't have to be about the alcohol itself but the decline in "third spaces" for young men these days if you take away a lot of the pubs clubs and restaurants. I feel like we had this discussion here before, Joe might have actually raised it.

For myself, as a young male a lot of those places beyond the home or work that I met with friends did involve alcohol - the bar to meet women, the pub to hear live music, the ball park (or hockey arena, gym, whatever) to play sports with a drink after most of the time.

I know in my area traditional recreational sports (in this area that means rec hockey/baseball/basketball) enrolment is way down in addition to the bars and restaurants closing - and the rec sports that are gaining in popularity (looking right at you pickleball but also badminton, curling, golf) are aimed more at higher income/boomers than young males.

Is there a decline in social spaces?

My impression is Galloway's data point is 40% (or whatever) of bars closed since the pandemic.

My guess is in the five years before the pandemic to the pandemic, that number was close to 40%.

My impression is Galloway cherry picks stats to make a point. He's a marketer. That's what they do.

Anecdotal evidence: I used to be in a coffee desert when I moved into my house twenty years ago.

Now there are three Starbucks within three miles. Those are non alcoholic gathering places that sell drinks full of sugar and caffeine that also have a "lubricating" effect that you'll find a lot of young people in.

I guess it depends where you are but Starbucks just closed 13 locations in Toronto and laid off 900 employees at its head office, so big picture, I don't think that space is booming either.

I don't know if the 40% is accurate but it doesn't sound all that crazy. I remember reading that it is close to 1 out of 3 bars/restaurants don't survive their first year so 40% being closed since 2020 doesn't sound outrageous. I imagine that 40% doesn't take into all the new places that have opened in that timeframe though

Having run or owned restaurants and bars most of my adult life I can comfortably say that 40% closure number is correct. The problem with the statement as a whole is aligning it only with “after COVID”. It’s been that way since long before COVID. Bottom line, it’s a tough business.

I think tying this back to the last page about drinking/not drinking, it doesn't have to be about the alcohol itself but the decline in "third spaces" for young men these days if you take away a lot of the pubs clubs and restaurants. I feel like we had this discussion here before, Joe might have actually raised it.

For myself, as a young male a lot of those places beyond the home or work that I met with friends did involve alcohol - the bar to meet women, the pub to hear live music, the ball park (or hockey arena, gym, whatever) to play sports with a drink after most of the time.

I know in my area traditional recreational sports (in this area that means rec hockey/baseball/basketball) enrolment is way down in addition to the bars and restaurants closing - and the rec sports that are gaining in popularity (looking right at you pickleball but also badminton, curling, golf) are aimed more at higher income/boomers than young males.

Is there a decline in social spaces?

My impression is Galloway's data point is 40% (or whatever) of bars closed since the pandemic.

My guess is in the five years before the pandemic to the pandemic, that number was close to 40%.

My impression is Galloway cherry picks stats to make a point. He's a marketer. That's what they do.

Anecdotal evidence: I used to be in a coffee desert when I moved into my house twenty years ago.

Now there are three Starbucks within three miles. Those are non alcoholic gathering places that sell drinks full of sugar and caffeine that also have a "lubricating" effect that you'll find a lot of young people in.

I guess it depends where you are but Starbucks just closed 13 locations in Toronto and laid off 900 employees at its head office, so big picture, I don't think that space is booming either.

Google tells me the net growth of coffee shops from 2020 to 2025 was 13000.


That's about 7%.

The growth in bars and restaurants in that time is 2%, which includes a spike in closures during the pandemic.

That data also told me that half of bars and restaurants close within five years, so "40% since the pandemic" seems normal.

This was a five second Google search so the data is likely incomplete. Since it groups snack shops in with coffee shops and restaurants with bars, it seems.

But that doesn't seem like alarming data to me at first blush.

Streets tell me this isn't right.

Oh, and my job owning a brewery and running out of places to sell to.

That data is US-wide. YMMV in your region/Canada.

But my point was less that places that sell alcohol are in decline (very well could be) but that social spaces for youth could have shifted from alcohol-based to something else, like coffee. The data seems to suggest that.

 

[Northern Voice]

That data is US-wide. YMMV in your region/Canada.

But my point was less that places that sell alcohol are in decline (very well could be) but that social spaces for youth could have shifted from alcohol-based to something else, like coffee. The data seems to suggest that.

Could be. I see that as more in line with the shift in leisure activities towards different demographics.

I don't see a lot of young men hanging out in the local coffee shops, mostly more established men and definitely some young women, so I would think if there is a shift from bars to coffee shops it is part of an overall decline in third spaces for young men in particular.

 

[tri-man 47]

FWIW, today is International Men's Day. You can do anything you want so long as your wife or g/f says it's OK.

International Men get their own day now?

Yes, because if you're not International, you're domesticated.