parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Or men choose more violent means because they actually want to die not wake up to everybody telling them how much they would miss them.
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"Notes on Being a Man" (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter gianmarco
- Start date
Don’t blame women for men’s loneliness. Blame capitalism
There’s a lot of money to be made off angry, isolated men
www.salon.com
bigbottom
Footballguy
Don’t blame women for men’s loneliness. Blame capitalism
There’s a lot of money to be made off angry, isolated men
Very interesting read. Thanks for posting the article.
"Blame capitalism" is a reach and a poorly chosen title, it's really social media sites that are primarily responsible. Scott Galloway was on Bill Maher and made this point as well.Don’t blame women for men’s loneliness. Blame capitalism
There’s a lot of money to be made off angry, isolated men
A fair criticism and 100% agreed. A big problem is obviously contained within the larger point that for many of those claiming to want to address the "young male crisis", their incentive and goal is to solve it but to exacerbate it.
Separately, the notes re: dating apps are interesting to me. I haven't experienced the apps in 6+ years, although I have heard horror stories of how awful they are now. My previous experience with them was "mildly annoying but manageable", but I kind of suspect those were the "gain market share while losing money" days.
Nugget
Footballguy
Capitalism and social media share a model - how do I keep the product engaged and coming back for more. Streaming services, social media, gaming apps, AI models, podcasts are all competing for attention span and the real world is a competitor."Blame capitalism" is a reach and a poorly chosen title, it's really social media sites that are primarily responsible. Scott Galloway was on Bill Maher and made this point as well.Don’t blame women for men’s loneliness. Blame capitalism
There’s a lot of money to be made off angry, isolated men
Understand all that, blaming capitalism in this case, while technically correct in the sense that it's a for profit motive, is just a bit much.Capitalism and social media share a model - how do I keep the product engaged and coming back for more. Streaming services, social media, gaming apps, AI models, podcasts are all competing for attention span and the real world is a competitor."Blame capitalism" is a reach and a poorly chosen title, it's really social media sites that are primarily responsible. Scott Galloway was on Bill Maher and made this point as well.Don’t blame women for men’s loneliness. Blame capitalism
There’s a lot of money to be made off angry, isolated men
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I'm sorry but the idea that Sam Altman is trying to get men addicted to erotic chatbots for money doesn't seem credible if you've spent any amount of time listening to Sam Altman.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Strongly disagree here. Sam Altman is a nihilist increasingly trying to pump the value of OpenAI by allowing it generate porn and obvious IP protected material.
fatness
Footballguy
I think this fits here, since we're talking about problems younger adults are facing.
news.gallup.com
Record Numbers of Younger Women Want to Leave the U.S.
The percentage of younger women in the U.S. who express a desire to migrate permanently has surged in the past decade.
news.gallup.com
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Wow, that's pretty sad. Definitely feels like the country is moving in the wrong direction if a huge segment of the population wants to leave permanently.I think this fits here, since we're talking about problems younger adults are facing.
Record Numbers of Younger Women Want to Leave the U.S.
The percentage of younger women in the U.S. who express a desire to migrate permanently has surged in the past decade.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Galloway was on Maher last week and I thought this was a bit wild:
www.youtube.com
The idea that people need to drink more booze in general is madness to me. Maybe it is my age talking, but far too many ruined their lives with alcohol, and we should be encouraging people in general to drink less alcohol, not more.
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www.youtube.com
The idea that people need to drink more booze in general is madness to me. Maybe it is my age talking, but far too many ruined their lives with alcohol, and we should be encouraging people in general to drink less alcohol, not more.
massraider
Footballguy
It is wild.Galloway was on Maher last week and I thought this was a bit wild:
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
The idea that people need to drink more booze in general is madness to me. Maybe it is my age talking, but far too many ruined their lives with alcohol, and we should be encouraging people in general to drink less alcohol, not more.
That's how bad Galloway thinks it is for young people, men especially. He refers to alcohol as a lubricant, and he's right. If Galloway thought every man could confidently talk to a woman, or dance in public, he wouldn't suggest it. If he thought every man was out there networking while sober, he wouldn't suggest it.
He sums it up nicely, 'the danger to your 25 year old liver is dwarfed by the risk of social isolation.'
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I'm sure that father grieving the loss of his daughter will rest easier knowing that the drunk driver who killed her had gotten inebriated so he could talk to girls in a bar.It is wild.Galloway was on Maher last week and I thought this was a bit wild:
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
The idea that people need to drink more booze in general is madness to me. Maybe it is my age talking, but far too many ruined their lives with alcohol, and we should be encouraging people in general to drink less alcohol, not more.
That's how bad Galloway thinks it is for young people, men especially. He refers to alcohol as a lubricant, and he's right. If Galloway thought every man could confidently talk to a woman, or dance in public, he wouldn't suggest it. If he thought every man was out there networking while sober, he wouldn't suggest it.
He sums it up nicely, 'the danger to your 25 year old liver is dwarfed by the risk of social isolation.'
massraider
Footballguy
Nice reasonable discussion.I'm sure that father grieving the loss of his daughter will rest easier knowing that the drunk driver who killed her had gotten inebriated so he could talk to girls in a bar.It is wild.Galloway was on Maher last week and I thought this was a bit wild:
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
The idea that people need to drink more booze in general is madness to me. Maybe it is my age talking, but far too many ruined their lives with alcohol, and we should be encouraging people in general to drink less alcohol, not more.
That's how bad Galloway thinks it is for young people, men especially. He refers to alcohol as a lubricant, and he's right. If Galloway thought every man could confidently talk to a woman, or dance in public, he wouldn't suggest it. If he thought every man was out there networking while sober, he wouldn't suggest it.
He sums it up nicely, 'the danger to your 25 year old liver is dwarfed by the risk of social isolation.'
Thanks!!
This is a great thread.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
My earlier response was intentionally over the top.Nice reasonable discussion.I'm sure that father grieving the loss of his daughter will rest easier knowing that the drunk driver who killed her had gotten inebriated so he could talk to girls in a bar.It is wild.Galloway was on Maher last week and I thought this was a bit wild:
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
The idea that people need to drink more booze in general is madness to me. Maybe it is my age talking, but far too many ruined their lives with alcohol, and we should be encouraging people in general to drink less alcohol, not more.
That's how bad Galloway thinks it is for young people, men especially. He refers to alcohol as a lubricant, and he's right. If Galloway thought every man could confidently talk to a woman, or dance in public, he wouldn't suggest it. If he thought every man was out there networking while sober, he wouldn't suggest it.
He sums it up nicely, 'the danger to your 25 year old liver is dwarfed by the risk of social isolation.'
Thanks!!
This is a great thread.
The thing is, saying, "drink more," doesn't strike a good chord with me because, from being a threat to others (on the road for one) to damaging oneself, we, humans as a collective, are not good at being responsible drinkers.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
Wow, that's pretty sad. Definitely feels like the country is moving in the wrong direction if a huge segment of the population wants to leave permanently.I think this fits here, since we're talking about problems younger adults are facing.
Record Numbers of Younger Women Want to Leave the U.S.
The percentage of younger women in the U.S. who express a desire to migrate permanently has surged in the past decade.
Well, there are many many many many many countries that offer better rights and freedoms for women, so this one seems incredibly obvious.
massraider
Footballguy
Agree with pretty much all that. I've been working around it all my life, I don't really like being drunk, or people who are drunk. I think if one told Scott Galloway, hey I don't drink at all, but I regularly socialize with my co-workers, I golf with my boss, I am comfortable talking with women, and I dance like no one is watching, Scott Galloway would say you're doing great, no need for alcohol.
This was the last thing Galloway said in his book. I think one can completely dismiss this advice, and the rest of the message is intact. Socialize more.
He correctly surmises that not a lot of men can say that, and there are some things that are not good for you, that have been, and are, good experiences. Experiences with friends and colleagues that involve alcohol. Drunken make out sessions with a stranger. Getting into a brawl at a frat house. Going to a strip club with the boss. All things I have done, that aren't good for me, and I don't regret at all. I have a business partner, because I got into a drunken fight at a frat house.
I have a buddy who's an executive VP for a software company, and he draws a direct line from golfing and drinking with the bosses, to his rapid ascent up the corporate ladder. I am sure everyone who's worked for a company knows of someone who shmoozed their way up the ladder.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Sam Altman is adept at saying things he knows people want to hear. He's not as noble as he first appears.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
starting the audio book. Great intro, then it got slow as he discusses his childhood and own issues. Hopefully it picks up
tri-man 47
Footballguy
I've been forced to give up alcohol (for medical reasons), and I gotta say - I don't miss it. NA beers and even alcohol-free red wines are quite tasty. Maybe it's old habit, but it still feels good to come in from yardwork and pop a (NA) beer. Added plus: I can drink earlier in the day without fear of repercussions later in the day.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I don't think it has that much to do with rights and freedoms. Yes, some reproductive rights have been limited in some states. But, I think a cultural shift has taken place over the last 20 years that young women are not enjoying.Wow, that's pretty sad. Definitely feels like the country is moving in the wrong direction if a huge segment of the population wants to leave permanently.I think this fits here, since we're talking about problems younger adults are facing.
Record Numbers of Younger Women Want to Leave the U.S.
The percentage of younger women in the U.S. who express a desire to migrate permanently has surged in the past decade.
Well, there are many many many many many countries that offer better rights and freedoms for women, so this one seems incredibly obvious.
rockaction
Footballguy
I think this fits here, since we're talking about problems younger adults are facing.
Record Numbers of Younger Women Want to Leave the U.S.
The percentage of younger women in the U.S. who express a desire to migrate permanently has surged in the past decade.
It would be interesting to see how they’d feel about moving to Europe with its ascendant right-wing parties, European-Islamic immigration, and a birth rate that ensures each country united in Euros has no value added to its fiat currency while its productive capacity crashes within the span of caliphs past. Perhaps then and having experienced the collapse that accompanied the handling of the public fisc and trial balance of colonial debit and credit accounts divined through individual entry upon individual entry and then upon further individual entry; all of whom looked indeed and then, yes, saw to it that an absorption of Wahhabism into those arbitrarily distant and unnecessarily foreign legal strictures and socio-spiritual architectures that were now richer thanks to this thorough re-examination of a needlessly cardinal dialogue with those who were displaying such an earthen beneficence considering how they had been subject to such arduous travails, so that they (or was it us?), the hosts, might decrease the discomfited gaze of nasara longingly directed homeward by so many (the locals affectionately referring to that look as “The Two States of Her Immaculate Gaza”) that a new sightline doctrine was unanimously adopted within thirty years; legend cleaving visions that were luminesced from a deserted land whose stars' own starlight had followed them and were now illuminating thousands of nights and traveling thousands of shining years for the blessed pilgrimage; then maybe young women of Leaving America and Europe will see to it that their can-do, pro-protest pluck will relocate instead to the hinterlands of communist Asia where they can finally enjoy the spoils of the rich and corporeal legacy soils left to them by the storied actors of the 1966 Glorious Cultural Revolution for Struggle and Equanimity, so that once and for all they may commemorate and celebrate their Chinese sisters by rejecting materialism in all forms while participating in reenactments of the events that are sure to bind their eternally vesseled bodies to one another in solidarity forever. If this whiplashing proves traumatic, maybe an admittedly quick-but-dignified tour of the UN-developed West African territories where water is plentiful and if dysenteric then at least can often be accurately called “not lethal.” Thusly steeled from the inside against the turbulent elements of travel, perhaps they can jetty back to the western hemisphere where the exotic rainfall of South America beckons kenosis with its forested cover so that the young women can eschew modernity's tyranny of false consciousness and live like Pope Leo on groovian Peruvian farmland with their newly-gifted hoes and axe handles, earning only subsistence wages that ensure their spirits remain alight like bright and risen angels under the assurances that nobody there will dare prevent the public expression of prayer and solitude; something that tried elsewhere might encompass all one could possibly need for one’s own daily bread. Couple that rapturous embodiment with an intrepid insistence on borderless territories designed to keep stomachs always filled with a joyful spirit, and one can begin to bear witness to a hope that remains alive and yearns for the next animating People’s Coalition for Dignified and Consistently Syndical Flickering Natural Energy. Imagine the delight upon finding the myriad and hidden ways in which this daily gratitude is replenished anew; an ecstatic peace carried by visitors with pathways left shining from every sundown that marks the cessation of any hostilities and the sacred ceremonial closure of all their daily habits; how faithfully and unfailingly they await the fervent stitching of the community cloth to be continued tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow thereafter. Maybe if not grace then a visit to Honduran cousins who own a few beastly burdened narco-mule farms in Central America; or back to the plane to catch a flight to Pakistan in the Middle East where they can walk two fully enforced feet behind their affectionately chosen* new husbands to the stoning commencing at daybreak in 110-degree universally agreed-upon socially-lived heat that is surely caused by the bankers and their usuries that allow for global warming of the anthropogenic variety . . . or maybe they’d move to . . .
* the locals seem to be confused about which referent in our sentence is supposed to be performing the verbaction, but let it be said that the word itself entering the lexicon has proven quite destabilizing, so procedural quibbles notwithstanding, one must admit they are adorably together in ways our words have lacked meaningful and unflattening expressions to describe such bliss. . .
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
My SIL, BIL and their 3 kids just left for Portugal. They started the process last December and it cost them a ton of money but as of last week they are all there with VISAs and a path to citizenship. They were fortunate enough to be able to do this. He’s a former Naval officer and she was making 6-7 figures in the alcohol industry. They loved Chicago and didn’t want to leave but one of their children is trans and the writing was on the wall in the US for how that’s going to be. They already have a doctor that specializes in this field, the meds they need and at a much lower price. In theory they say they might come back someday but I doubt they will.Wow, that's pretty sad. Definitely feels like the country is moving in the wrong direction if a huge segment of the population wants to leave permanently.I think this fits here, since we're talking about problems younger adults are facing.
Record Numbers of Younger Women Want to Leave the U.S.
The percentage of younger women in the U.S. who express a desire to migrate permanently has surged in the past decade.
Wow, in less than a year. My understanding was that process for Portugal takes 3 years for residency, plus another 3-5 for citizenship.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
I think they're all tied together. The shift in what the USA does and doesn't value and the losses in women's rights. The USA is also doing global damage now to women's rights with what's being lost in research, USAID, etc but I don't think that's allowed to be talked about here.I don't think it has that much to do with rights and freedoms. Yes, some reproductive rights have been limited in some states. But, I think a cultural shift has taken place over the last 20 years that young women are not enjoying.Wow, that's pretty sad. Definitely feels like the country is moving in the wrong direction if a huge segment of the population wants to leave permanently.I think this fits here, since we're talking about problems younger adults are facing.
Record Numbers of Younger Women Want to Leave the U.S.
The percentage of younger women in the U.S. who express a desire to migrate permanently has surged in the past decade.
Well, there are many many many many many countries that offer better rights and freedoms for women, so this one seems incredibly obvious.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
I don't know if the word limited is best when stories like this are out there.I don't think it has that much to do with rights and freedoms. Yes, some reproductive rights have been limited in some states. But, I think a cultural shift has taken place over the last 20 years that young women are not enjoying.Wow, that's pretty sad. Definitely feels like the country is moving in the wrong direction if a huge segment of the population wants to leave permanently.I think this fits here, since we're talking about problems younger adults are facing.
Record Numbers of Younger Women Want to Leave the U.S.
The percentage of younger women in the U.S. who express a desire to migrate permanently has surged in the past decade.
Well, there are many many many many many countries that offer better rights and freedoms for women, so this one seems incredibly obvious.
massraider
Footballguy
There's a few countries that are amenable, and money can expedite it.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I suspect a significant percentage are answering the question flippantly.
I mean the grass isn't always greener and in fact it is usually not.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I don’t know the exact details except their residency papers are coming December or January. Citizenship will take a several years. They hired a company that specializes in assisting people do this so I’m sure that helped a lot. Portugal is very easy relatively speaking which is a big reason they chose it (also their liberal policies). To even try to move there though you already needed to have secured a place to live and prove you have at least 1 years worth cost of living in your bank. So they had already visited and rented an apartment before they even knew if they would be able to move there. So yeah having money is key. He moved in with the kids in September so they cold start school. He’s fortunate enough to just be working part time doing some consulting virtually. She’s still here working from their cottage/lake house (that they are keeping for a rental property). She’s visiting now, taking stuff over but then will return until after the new year so she is sure she gets her end of year bonus because that along will probably be a quarter of a million. Lots of money in selling ****ty booze apparently. Then she quits and joins the family permanently in Lisbon.
rockaction
Footballguy
I think they're all tied together. The shift in what the USA does and doesn't value and the losses in women's rights. The USA is also doing global damage now to women's rights with what's being lost in research, USAID, etc but I don't think that's allowed to be talked about here.I don't think it has that much to do with rights and freedoms. Yes, some reproductive rights have been limited in some states. But, I think a cultural shift has taken place over the last 20 years that young women are not enjoying.Wow, that's pretty sad. Definitely feels like the country is moving in the wrong direction if a huge segment of the population wants to leave permanently.I think this fits here, since we're talking about problems younger adults are facing.
Record Numbers of Younger Women Want to Leave the U.S.
The percentage of younger women in the U.S. who express a desire to migrate permanently has surged in the past decade.
Well, there are many many many many many countries that offer better rights and freedoms for women, so this one seems incredibly obvious.
It is.a bit breathtaking for the world to have hated a place for so long while seeking its protection that to hear other countries ask “where have you gone?” should be breathtaking to even have the gall to be able to ask. Something like that would catch in my throat and I think I’d reflect upon it. It might be cause for other countries to maybe introspectively think and say “holy ****! maybe there were these . . . people there thst really thought communism and Islamism and fascism and colonialism and abject primitivism were things to either eradicate or improve upon . . . And maybe yelling at then for 365 days a year . . . like it pissed then off!!’ And now they’re gone and what do we do??)??????
Oh my god they’re gone and nobody fights the darkness!!!’11211
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rockaction
Footballguy
I mean are you ****ing kidding?! We hate your intervention where have you gone????
Northern Voice
Footballguy
People hated academic research and USAID funding? Well yes certainly some people (in the USA) did.
You're conflating a WHOLE LOT of topics here that all get this thread derailed/closed. I think it's pretty incontrovertible the fact that USA is damaging women's rights both in the country itself and abroad and I think it's pretty obvious why many women would want to live in one of the dozens of countries that respects them more. I don't really care to get into the political motivations of the decisions from the US standpoint, especially with how it relates to this discussion thread.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah I’d agree with your substantive point but it’s clearly an opinion and when a country shutters funding for something it . . . Well I’m not sure it’s worth it to get into it. I don’t blame anybody for leaving for greener pastures but not recognizing the only thing keeping those pastures green was the place you’re leaving seems very fleeting and ephemeral by its very nature.
I know you’ll disagree so I will just wish you luck when it is gone and I won’t bother asking for any introspection as to why because hate just hates.
rockaction
Footballguy
Being in love means never having to say you’re sorry. Lol.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
I think you're reading in political commentary that I'm not making and it's also really two separate discussions I think.
The "greener pastures" for women's rights have been greener or at least pretty damn green for a long time (mostly other wealthy, Western countries). I don't think USA was keeping Spain, Portugal, Scandinavia, most former Commonwealth countries etc.. green in the first place, particularly on this subject.
I think the greater damage is the progress being lost in the places that aren't greener and I think it's perfectly acceptable if the USA wants not to be a participant there anymore but I don't think this discussion can continue here.
rockaction
Footballguy
I think you're probably right regarding your second substantive point and also correct that we cannot discuss it. I do wonder why you not only went to dip your toe in the pool but also jumped in the deep end and splashed around yelling "cannonball!" if you weren't going to go through with the discussion. That said, I think I have done the same.
Your first point is, I think, missing (not your fault because you seem unaware and I'll be careful in my terminology because I guess I would resent any stray words in my upcoming and broader point because I'm sure you've heard it, but I'll give it a twist of the old non-alcoholic limeade with a bit of sugar to make it go down easier) the "fact" that Scandinavia joined NATO recently for a reason, never mind 1941-5 and thereafter. I think I can safely say fairly objectively and accurately—since I merely inherited what others did —that the men from this country and the U.K. who came before me in America and the West that is not Continental Europe are the reason we don't live in 20th century darkness all day and every day, and to not realize that when you are a young woman who lives and was born here is our fault for letting the perverse version of history that is taught in our schools and understood in our popular culture to be the dominant version; worse, that agitprop from Russia, China, Iran, and other various and degraded actors be the structure and the framework within which we have our debates about our history and the contemporary reality that flows therefrom.
End
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Northern Voice
Footballguy
1941 - 1945 is always jarring to see. It's 1939 in most places.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Why Lithuania (out of curiosity)? Family ties, or some other specific reason?
yep
“This week, it’s important to dispel a lie that has permeated American political thought for some time. America is not a nation of immigrants,” said DHS Deputy Assistant Secretary Micah Bock, in a video posted to X. “We are a nation of citizens. And it is because of those citizens that we are an exceptional nation.”
“Our national motto is E Pluribus Unum. Out of many, one. One Nation. One Culture. One Shared Heritage,”
Thank you to our forefathers who pushed back fascism and Nazism while simultaneously maintaining racism and patriarchy at home. Tough double duty. Thank the heavens we've evolved a touch.
the moops
Footballguy
Only place that we qualify for. Wife's great grandparents lived there and left there in the correct timeframe. My family has been in this country since the early 1600's so no luck on my end
rockaction
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Fin. You can froth forthwith.
rockaction
Footballguy
I’m not going to do this to you in public. I’m going to leave it all up to you.
