NY HS Football coach suspended for winning by more than 42 points. (1 Viewer)

[Da Guru]

I guess this is some sort of life lesson? A 41 point win is OK though.

A HS coach being suspending for running up the score isn't something that you see every day, but that's exactly what happened to Plainedge High School's Rob Shaver. The coach of the Nassau County, N.Y. school was suspended after his team beat previously undefeated South Side, 61-13, on Oct. 25, according to FOX 5 NY.

There is a county policy that states if a team wins by more than 42 points, they have to explain to a committee why the final score is so lopsided. Plainedge, which also came into the game without a loss, didn't exactly have an explanation.

"Their first team was still in the game in the fourth quarter… and I think that's what swayed the committee," executive director of Section VIII Athletics Pat Pizzarelli told FOX 5 NY. "Is it worth beating a team by more than 42 points? Isn't 30 or 40 points enough?"

Plainedge, which is ranked No. 12 in New York by MaxPreps, isn't looking to appeal the suspension, so Shaver he will miss the team's next game. Parents of Plainedge football players were quick to defend their coach's decisions.

"Coach Shaver is an honorable, standup guy. He coached all three of my children, two who have gone on to play Division I athletics," one man said of Shaver to FOX 5 NY. "This rule doesn't work. It hasn't worked elsewhere and it shouldn't be on Long Island."

Another parent of a player added that the rule "isn't teaching them life lessons. The rule is a joke."

The opposing South Side head coach Phil Onesto also did not have any issue with Plainedge running up the score either.

"I had no issues at all with how he was running his team," the coach told FOX 5 NY. "Even after the game, Coach Shaver and I, we spoke and there was no bad blood. I congratulated him on the win and wished him luck next week."

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Ah , the wussification of America. 

God help us all

 

[Insein]

I mean 42-0 in football is like 6-0 in baseball. It's not really a fair measure. Now if it was 84-0, I can get behind that.

 

[huthut]

I mean 42-0 in football is like 6-0 in baseball. It's not really a fair measure. Now if it was 84-0, I can get behind that.

In baseball you do not need to give the ball back when you score, and there is no time limit. How many times has a football team got 42 points in 2 minutes vs how often a baseball team has scored 6 in an inning? It is still dumb to penalize, but I am not sure if I agree with this analogy. 

 

[Da Guru]

Ah , the wussification of America. 

God help us all

If the team is running the ball every play just let the game play out.  Otherwise New York needs to put in a "Mercy" rule for HS football.   If you are up by 35 in the second half the game is ended. 

 

[rockaction]

Bad decisions remnant of seventies ideology. That said, the concentration on hyper-achievement that goes into running up scores of that nature sometimes is just as damaging as the point ceiling they've enshrined in rule. Weirdly, 61-13 strikes me as as somewhat normal score when high schools are competing. Some towns are bigger, faster, stronger.

I wouldn't make too, too much of the rule as a microcosm of America, though. Exceptionalism is still alive and well here. 

 

[Steve Tasker]

What a dumb rule.

 

[Kal El]

That rule is stupid. I helped coach a year of HS football in Florida, and our team regularly got 40+ hung on them. They slowly got better and won their last game, but there was no mercy rule, except a running clock once the score got out of hand.

 

[[scooter]]

In theory, the rule is fine. You win by 48, you explain why, and you move on.

What I don't get is why a coach would still be suspended after following those guidelines.

It reminds me of the people clamoring to suspend Phil Mickelson for hitting his moving ball on the putting green -- a maneuver which already carried a 2 stroke penalty.

 

[rockaction]

In theory, the rule is fine. You win by 48, you explain why, and you move on.

What I don't get is why a coach would still be suspended after following those guidelines.

It reminds me of the people clamoring to suspend Phil Mickelson for hitting his moving ball on the putting green -- a maneuver which already carried a 2 stroke penalty.

I think the explanation part is the subjective determinant within the rule's guidelines whether or not the coach gets suspended. He wasn't able to provide an adequate explanation for the starters still in the game, therefore, he got suspended. It sounds like the rule is more punitive than you're giving it credit for. It places at least a degree of the burden of proof of necessity for game conditions on the coach.

 

[Insein]

In baseball you do not need to give the ball back when you score, and there is no time limit. How many times has a football team got 42 points in 2 minutes vs how often a baseball team has scored 6 in an inning? It is still dumb to penalize, but I am not sure if I agree with this analogy. 

I don't understand these leagues with these rigid rules. If you want to not go over then just call the game When you reach the number.

 

[Galileo]

I don't understand these leagues with these rigid rules. If you want to not go over then just call the game When you reach the number.

That doesn't work well either.  You would lose good opportunities to develop some of your back ups or time for some of those seniors who aren't quite good enough to get much playing time if games were just called.  Ohio uses a running clock in the second half if one team is up by at least 30 points.  The second half flies by and there really isn't time to run up a score too much more even if you wanted to.

 

[Man In The Box]

Did the other team still get a trophy at least?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

If the team is running the ball every play just let the game play out.  Otherwise New York needs to put in a "Mercy" rule for HS football.   If you are up by 35 in the second half the game is ended. 

This is the correct response.  If you don't want teams running up the score take it out of their hands and install the mercy rule.  I think 35 is a fair starting point.

 

[AAABatteries]

This is the correct response.  If you don't want teams running up the score take it out of their hands and install the mercy rule.  I think 35 is a fair starting point.

Agree - making somebody explain why they kicked the others team ### doesn’t make a lot of sense.  If a coach is dumb enough to risk injuries to his starters and also not develop depth then he’s an idiot and his athletic director should be dealing with it.  If you just don’t want to see blowouts then put the mercy rule in place.

 

[Insein]

That doesn't work well either.  You would lose good opportunities to develop some of your back ups or time for some of those seniors who aren't quite good enough to get much playing time if games were just called.  Ohio uses a running clock in the second half if one team is up by at least 30 points.  The second half flies by and there really isn't time to run up a score too much more even if you wanted to.

No I get that. I just meant if you want this dumb rule then just end it. You can't helped if your team is that much better than the other team.

 

[jrt103]

End of days are upon us

If teams are only allowed to win by a certain amount of points just stop keeping score

 

[Joe Summer]

Everytime you go up by 43, just let the other team score. Or start taking intentional safeties.

I mean, if we're going to make a mockery of the sport, we may as well take it to its logical conclusion.

 

[jhib]

I'd agree with the rule more if the losing coach were the one who had to explain the lopsided score or risk being suspended.

 

[Cjw_55106]

I’m not a fan of the rule, but I’m also not a fan of the starters being in for the entire game.

 

[NutterButter]

I'm not sure what the problem is here.  The rule said if you win by 42 or more you need to do some explaining.   Having the first team in during the 4th quarter is a terrible explanation.   The coach is probably a Richard that didn't know the rule.  

 

[ChiefD]

Sweep the leg. 

 

[SWC]

what if you won by about 90 and then went in and your explanation is well you see guys the thing is the other team stunk up the joint and we crushed them and then you chugged a beer and burped really loud and long and then shouted san deimas football rules that would be pretty sweet is all i am saying take that to the bank bromigos 

 

[parasaurolophus]

I would like to know the scoring by qtr as i suspect that probably had something to do with this. 

But if you are winning by 42 in the 4 th qtr and you have all your starters in still i have zero sympathy if you get suspended. 

 

[Henry Ford]

I would like to know the scoring by qtr as i suspect that probably had something to do with this. 

But if you are winning by 42 in the 4 th qtr and you have all your starters in still i have zero sympathy if you get suspended. 

I don’t know.  Two undefeated teams? Not sure I’d be pulling my starters before midway through the fourth quarter even if up by 3-4 TDs. 
 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

How long are quarters in N.Y. H.S. football?  I'm guessing 12 minutes.  Pretty easy to run out that clock up by 5 T.D.'s along with 5 2-pt conversions and a safety. 

Me, I would have protected my starters and got my backups some experience.

Stupid rule.  I could see a rule where the refs stop the game if the domination comes at actual risk of injury to the team being dominated.  If they should not physically be on the field end it.

 

[Cjw_55106]

I don’t know.  Two undefeated teams? Not sure I’d be pulling my starters before midway through the fourth quarter even if up by 3-4 TDs. 
 

Not all undefeated teams are created equal. 

 

[Courtjester]

My daughter's HS team is pretty bad. They lose by 40+ on a regular basis. All that  happens is once the other team gets up by 35+ points, the game goes to a running clock and the game is mercifully over quicker.

I think there are a lot of details missing from this story,  I just looked quickly and  I found this team's last three victories were  49-7, 42-0, 42-0. That shows this  is just a good football team and not one that runs up the score. I also looked at the stats from the game--the winning team had 75 yards passing and over 500 yards rushing. So they weren't out there throwing the ball in the fourth quarter--they were simply running the ball. I also watched some of the highlights and they ended up with multiple 50+ yard rushing TD plays. The last play that put them over the supposed bad number took place in the 4th quarter and was a 59 yard rushing TD where the RB just ran into the line and broke through. What was the RB supposed to do--fall down at the 10 for fear of scoring a TD? 

 

[parasaurolophus]

I don’t know.  Two undefeated teams? Not sure I’d be pulling my starters before midway through the fourth quarter even if up by 3-4 TDs. 
 

That's why I prefaced with wanting to know the scoring breakdown by qtr. I mean if the scrubs scored 3 tds in the last 3 minutes changes things quite a bit, but I dont think that is teh case since he got suspended.

They won by 48 so I imagine they were up by at least 5tds when they still had their starters in. To me that is very foolish risk. 

 

[[scooter]]

My daughter's HS team is pretty bad. They lose by 40+ on a regular basis. All that  happens is once the other team gets up by 35+ points, the game goes to a running clock and the game is mercifully over quicker.

I think there are a lot of details missing from this story,  I just looked quickly and  I found this team's last three victories were  49-7, 42-0, 42-0. That shows this  is just a good football team and not one that runs up the score. I also looked at the stats from the game--the winning team had 75 yards passing and over 500 yards rushing. So they weren't out there throwing the ball in the fourth quarter--they were simply running the ball. I also watched some of the highlights and they ended up with multiple 50+ yard rushing TD plays. The last play that put them over the supposed bad number took place in the 4th quarter and was a 59 yard rushing TD where the RB just ran into the line and broke through. What was the RB supposed to do--fall down at the 10 for fear of scoring a TD? 

Maybe the other team's coach should be investigated to make sure he didn't instruct his team to allow that final TD on purpose.

 

[Cjw_55106]

My daughter's HS team is pretty bad. They lose by 40+ on a regular basis. All that  happens is once the other team gets up by 35+ points, the game goes to a running clock and the game is mercifully over quicker.

I think there are a lot of details missing from this story,  I just looked quickly and  I found this team's last three victories were  49-7, 42-0, 42-0. That shows this  is just a good football team and not one that runs up the score. I also looked at the stats from the game--the winning team had 75 yards passing and over 500 yards rushing. So they weren't out there throwing the ball in the fourth quarter--they were simply running the ball. I also watched some of the highlights and they ended up with multiple 50+ yard rushing TD plays. The last play that put them over the supposed bad number took place in the 4th quarter and was a 59 yard rushing TD where the RB just ran into the line and broke through. What was the RB supposed to do--fall down at the 10 for fear of scoring a TD? 

You are formulating your opinion from looking at a box score?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Mercy is for the weak. 

 

[Thunderlips]

  This coach is a clown. Pull your starters.  Give your backups and underclassmen a chance to be competitive in a game. 

 

[Ketamine Dreams]

Up by that many in a playoff game, why keep your starters in till the end? 

 

[Courtjester]

The whole game is available on YouTube. They had the backup QB in there. The kid who scored the last TD was some little 5'7 140 pound white kid who the announcers were saying how good it is to see these guys who practice so hard get to see some reps. So the narrative that the starters were in there and this team was piling it on seems to be in error. Maybe I am wrong--I only watched a few minutes of it and I don't watch HS football. 

 

[WDIK2]

Just go to a running clock at a certain point like many states already do.  The whole "explain to a committee" thing sounds unnecessary.

ETA:  "We tried to not score.  Sorry, not sorry."

 

[dickey moe]

There is a county policy that states if a team wins by more than 42 points, they have to explain to a committee why the final score is so lopsided. 

Lot of subtlety to this but let me try: the winning team had better players and performed much better than the losing team.

 

[Cjw_55106]

The whole game is available on YouTube. They had the backup QB in there. The kid who scored the last TD was some little 5'7 140 pound white kid who the announcers were saying how good it is to see these guys who practice so hard get to see some reps. So the narrative that the starters were in there and this team was piling it on seems to be in error. Maybe I am wrong--I only watched a few minutes of it and I don't watch HS football. 

The narrative was that the starters were still in there in the fourth quarter. It is certainly possible that the starters were in there in the fourth AND the back up quarterback and RB were playing at the end.

 

[SWC]

i just ran up the score on my wife washing dishes i got done with pretty much all of the dishes and she was still drying like more than half of them basically i kicked but take that losers team swc for the win and you cant even ban me from washing dishes take that to the bank browashos

 

[Da Guru]

The whole game is available on YouTube. They had the backup QB in there. The kid who scored the last TD was some little 5'7 140 pound white kid who the announcers were saying how good it is to see these guys who practice so hard get to see some reps. So the narrative that the starters were in there and this team was piling it on seems to be in error. Maybe I am wrong--I only watched a few minutes of it and I don't watch HS football. 

Not sure why the race of the QB matters,  but I get what you are saying.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Just watched the video. Coach probably couldnt explain why he was still running no huddle and only using 20 seconds of the play clock. If you watch when the other team has the ball they burn a ton of time in comparison.

 

[Cjw_55106]

The whole game is available on YouTube. They had the backup QB in there. The kid who scored the last TD was some little 5'7 140 pound white kid who the announcers were saying how good it is to see these guys who practice so hard get to see some reps. So the narrative that the starters were in there and this team was piling it on seems to be in error. Maybe I am wrong--I only watched a few minutes of it and I don't watch HS football. 

The starting QB ran it in for 37 yards to put them up 54-13 in the 4th quarter. You can say the rule is dumb and I wont argue, but this coach was in violation of the rule IMO. 

 

[Da Guru]

Just watched the video. Coach probably couldnt explain why he was still running no huddle and only using 20 seconds of the play clock. If you watch when the other team has the ball they burn a ton of time in comparison.

I get what you are saying but they never huddle.   The run a "no-huddle" offense.

 

[Bogeys]

If the team is running the ball every play just let the game play out.  Otherwise New York needs to put in a "Mercy" rule for HS football.   If you are up by 35 in the second half the game is ended. 

The mercy rule in Arkansas is 35 points up and the clock doesn't stop other than penalty or change of possession.  My hometown team has mercy ruled everyone this year by halftime other than last Friday...they only won by 2 TDs...which is the only reason I know this rule.

ETA:  The starters haven't played in the second half other than the last game.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I get what you are saying but they never huddle.   The run a "no-huddle" offense.

So what? They can still not huddle but run down the play clock. 

That is probably the exact kind of arguments he tried to make. The whole point isnt this is how we do things so its ok. The point was they didnt change things, as you should when you are ahead by that many points. 

They ran a planned qb draw. Their wide wr was clapping his hands trying to force a quick snap because he didnt have a defender on him yet. They could have burned tons more time. 

These things arent even charity either. They just make good football sense. Why have your backup qb run the ball? Why run twice as many plays as you have to? At that point your odds of injuries are astronomically higher than any threat of comeback. The other team was still huddling, running down the clock, and had conceded. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The rule is dumb AND the fact that starters were in when the score was that high is a Richard move.

Taken at face value, I'm actually okay that a dumb rule was applied to a dumb action.

 

[Pipes]

So what? They can still not huddle but run down the play clock. 

That is probably the exact kind of arguments he tried to make. The whole point isnt this is how we do things so its ok. The point was they didnt change things, as you should when you are ahead by that many points. 

They ran a planned qb draw. Their wide wr was clapping his hands trying to force a quick snap because he didnt have a defender on him yet. They could have burned tons more time. 

These things arent even charity either. They just make good football sense. Why have your backup qb run the ball? Why run twice as many plays as you have to? At that point your odds of injuries are astronomically higher than any threat of comeback. The other team was still huddling, running down the clock, and had conceded. 

I don't have a problem with that if it's their 2nd team in the game.  Those kids practice hard and want to play too.  Plus they need to run the normal offense how the team normally does things in case their number is called in a meaningful game.  Play as your practice. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

In my experience,  the adults (parents) feelings are hurt way more in these losses than the players feelings

Take the L and move on. These kids aren’t little league age

 

[parasaurolophus]

I don't have a problem with that if it's their 2nd team in the game.  Those kids practice hard and want to play too.  Plus they need to run the normal offense how the team normally does things in case their number is called in a meaningful game.  Play as your practice. 

I am pretty sure the other team had their backups in too so it isnt an actual scenario. Also they cant play if they are hurt. Pitchers throw a ball at a guys head because he watched a home run too long or a guy stole a base when ahead by 8 runs. You think there isnt a drastically increased risk of cheap shots on a football field when running up the score? 

It isnt the smart play to extend the game when leading by that much. 

It fails from the standpoint of team strategy for going forward in the season, it obviously fails the sportsmanship front and of course there is a rule in place so it fails on the risk/reward scale regarding your coaching staff. 

Stupid decision. 

 

[encaitar]

The starting QB ran it in for 37 yards to put them up 54-13 in the 4th quarter. You can say the rule is dumb and I wont argue, but this coach was in violation of the rule IMO. 

That right there proves why the rule is so stupid.  Going by this, the starters left the game up by 41.  Had the subs not scored it would never have been up for review.  It's a terrible rule.