Running Up The Score / Sportsmanship in HS Sports (1 Viewer)

[the moops]

Meh.  Bunch of feelings getting hurt is all I see.

Don't throw your scrubs in then cry when they get worked over like scrubs.

Never woul dhave guessed this would be your take

 

[dgreen]

Here's another Sportsmanship scenario... curious what people think about it:

My daughter plays Middle School 7th/8th Grade volleyball. My daughter's team is very good, went undefeated in district play. They even defeated several area non-district 9th Grade/JV teams. One match late in the season, we had an issue with the coach from an opposing team. Now it is not uncommon for parents to yell out during a player's toss/serve. It's a #### move, and it's a clearly an attempt to distract the player. I've seen parents do this since my daughter started playing many years ago. Never seen it from a coach until this game.

So this coach's team is a long shot to win. My daughter's coach typically plays the first string players in the first set. Assuming we win the first set, she will put in the second string players in the second set. The opposing coach is screaming during the serve, and she is also screaming anytime the ball goes back over the net to our team. My daughter's coach was furious. At one point in the game, my daughter's coach mentioned it to the referee. Opposing coach continued to scream. I was working the scoreboard for the game, and even I said something directly to the opposing coach. She didn't respond to me, but she quieted down for several points. She later started chirping again. Referee says that there is no rule against it.

The outcome of the match was never in question, but it was just such a ####ty thing to do. I don't understand how people think this behavior is okay. 

I've seen students (teen boys are the worst people on Earth) do this at my daughter's volleyball games. Parents and coaches? Good grief. I don't remember the situation, but I think I remember a ref telling some students to stop yelling certain things once and seemed like the ref even threatened to have them thrown out. Mostly, though, there are usually teachers/school admin who talk to the students if they start doing really ridiculous stuff.

In a sport that doesn't seem to allow the coaches to even talk to the refs (what's the deal with that?), it seems odd that there wouldn't be a rule about them yelling during a serve.

 

[Gally]

I don't get the hate for the opposing coach. He's preparing his team for the future. Your son's coach displayed a bad temper and a quitter's attitude. If you really wanted to quit, just have the team take a shower and load up the bus. Sometimes I wonder if this generation understands competition at all. Stop crying and teach your players how to take a loss. It'll be more useful in the real world than pouting and committing turnovers on purpose.

I don't understand that either. 

He is not prepping his team for the future at all.  If he wanted to work on a press with this first team he should have done that before the game was out of hand........not bringing the entire starting unit back in to face the third team in the last two minutes.  If he really wanted to work on the press for his team because it was an integral part of his team then do it with the players that were already on the floor if that is his style of play.  the #### move was bringing the starters back into the game when the game was over.  There is no reason to ever do that barring injuries or foul out issues. 

However, there is no way in hell I ever tell my team to give up and just give the ball to the other team.  I keep coaching and try and help them as best as possible to learn for the future.  It's still playing time in a competitive situation.  You don't give that up.

After the game at the handshake I tell the other coach how much of a #### he is in a concealed tone just for him.  I don't make a scene but I make him know how much of an ####### he really is. 

 

[Short Corner]

He is not prepping his team for the future at all.  If he wanted to work on a press with this first team he should have done that before the game was out of hand........not bringing the entire starting unit back in to face the third team in the last two minutes.  If he really wanted to work on the press for his team because it was an integral part of his team then do it with the players that were already on the floor if that is his style of play.  the #### move was bringing the starters back into the game when the game was over.  There is no reason to ever do that barring injuries or foul out issues. 

However, there is no way in hell I ever tell my team to give up and just give the ball to the other team.  I keep coaching and try and help them as best as possible to learn for the future.  It's still playing time in a competitive situation.  You don't give that up.

After the game at the handshake I tell the other coach how much of a #### he is in a concealed tone just for him.  I don't make a scene but I make him know how much of an ####### he really is. 

Twelve points with two minutes is far from over.  Once a coach starts addressing me on this in the manner this DB does I'm doing it for the duration.  It seems obvious they were happy with the anticipated moral victory and wanted everyone to stop playing.  Only time you stop is when the shot clock is turned off.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Don't really agree with the other coach pressing in the last two minutes but the losing coach is the real jackass here.  He seems like a butt-hurt loser and certainly didn't teach his own team anything in that game.   A 12 point game with a couple minutes left is not over and it's not the other coaches fault that the losing coach decided to give up and quit at that point (LOL worried about ACL injuries too).

I saw a high school game the other night where one kid hit three 3's in 22 seconds.  It happens.

On the other hand, I also help out a middle school team.  That coach has the better players most games and ends up blowing out teams.  He will routinely leave 1-2 starters in the game late with the end of the bench guys so the better players can facilitate the offense and run the same plays with the end of the bench.  There's no trying to run up the score he's constantly coaching the entire roster which is awesome.  I realize that's not the same as what happened here but just saying there's a lot of judging the other coach without really knowing a lot about his team.  It's quite easy to judge the sore loser yelling at other coaches and acting like a clown on the sidelines.

 

[matuski]

Never woul dhave guessed this would be your take

Don't think it is a take.

You threw in the towel and put in the end of your bench.  That que'd your opponent to treat it like a practice.  They practiced press. 

The result is exactly what you would predict with this scenario.  Getting hurt feelings over it seems silly... what else was going to happen?

 

[matuski]

Twelve points with two minutes is far from over.  Once a coach starts addressing me on this in the manner this DB does I'm doing it for the duration.  It seems obvious they were happy with the anticipated moral victory and wanted everyone to stop playing.  Only time you stop is when the shot clock is turned off.

Exactly.

When you quit you don't get to boohoo over the result.

 

[Gally]

Twelve points with two minutes is far from over.  Once a coach starts addressing me on this in the manner this DB does I'm doing it for the duration.  It seems obvious they were happy with the anticipated moral victory and wanted everyone to stop playing.  Only time you stop is when the shot clock is turned off.

I agree that the game wasn't out of hand when team B emptied their bench and I wouldn't have gone that route, however there is no reason to put the starters back in at that point from Team A.  I have no issue with the press but work it with your 2nd team that is already out on the court.  The issue is putting starters back in to run up the score.  That was the only purpose of doing that and is a #### move.  Pressing and playing hard to the end is the way things should be played.  No issue with that aspect. 

 

[Gally]

Don't really agree with the other coach pressing in the last two minutes but the losing coach is the real jackass here.  He seems like a butt-hurt loser and certainly didn't teach his own team anything in that game.   A 12 point game with a couple minutes left is not over and it's not the other coaches fault that the losing coach decided to give up and quit at that point (LOL worried about ACL injuries too).

I saw a high school game the other night where one kid hit three 3's in 22 seconds.  It happens.

On the other hand, I also help out a middle school team.  That coach has the better players most games and ends up blowing out teams.  He will routinely leave 1-2 starters in the game late with the end of the bench guys so the better players can facilitate the offense and run the same plays with the end of the bench.  There's no trying to run up the score he's constantly coaching the entire roster which is awesome.  I realize that's not the same as what happened here but just saying there's a lot of judging the other coach without really knowing a lot about his team.  It's quite easy to judge the sore loser yelling at other coaches and acting like a clown on the sidelines.

It is very easy to judge a coach that puts his entire starting team back into a game that was easily in his favor and then tells them to press the entire time.  There is no reason to do that.  Pressing with the 2nd team to work on things with the guys already on the floor.....no issue.  Play until the end but putting your entire starting team back in is the issue. 

 

[matuski]

I agree that the game wasn't out of hand when team B emptied their bench and I wouldn't have gone that route, however there is no reason to put the starters back in at that point from Team A.  I have no issue with the press but work it with your 2nd team that is already out on the court.  The issue is putting starters back in to run up the score.  That was the only purpose of doing that and is a #### move.  Pressing and playing hard to the end is the way things should be played.  No issue with that aspect. 

The only example of poor sportsmanship I saw here was the coach quitting then getting upset over the result.

 

[matuski]

It is very easy to judge a coach that puts his entire starting team back into a game that was easily in his favor and then tells them to press the entire time.  There is no reason to do that.  Pressing with the 2nd team to work on things with the guys already on the floor.....no issue.  Play until the end but putting your entire starting team back in is the issue. 

What reasons, given the behavior of the other coach, might you imagine this happened?

 

[matuski]

If your team is out there trying to win, I am likely to ease up and put in the second team if the game is out of hand.

If your team quits before the game is out of hand, no chance I am easing up.  Press it is.  Make it so they quit sooner next time.

 

[the moops]

The result is exactly what you would predict with this scenario.  Getting hurt feelings over it seems silly... what else was going to happen?

In all my years coaching and playing, I have never witnessed a coach putting his starters back in with two mnutes to go when the game was decided. So no, that is far from the result that I would predict. And from the myriad posts here, it seems that nearly everyone but tough guy/this generation is made up of snowflakes agrees

 

[Gally]

If your team is out there trying to win, I am likely to ease up and put in the second team if the game is out of hand.

If your team quits before the game is out of hand, no chance I am easing up.  Press it is.  Make it so they quit sooner next time.

If I understood the original post Team B did not quit until the starters went back in with the full court press from Team A and the Team B coach did not become a #### himself until that happened.  That was when the losing coach told his players to stop playing.  I think everyone agrees that was the wrong thing to do in any situation. 

I don't see Team B putting in their 2nd string as quitting per your example in a way that would warrant putting the starters back in to press.  This all seemed to hit the fan at the point the winning team put their starters back in to press and run up the score.  That was the #### move that started the ball rolling.

 

[matuski]

In all my years coaching and playing, I have never witnessed a coach putting his starters back in with two mnutes to go when the game was decided. So no, that is far from the result that I would predict. And from the myriad posts here, it seems that nearly everyone but tough guy/this generation is made up of snowflakes agrees

In my years coaching, I have never seen a team quit before the game is over.

What any of this has to do with tough guys or snowflakes maybe you can explain to me?

It is about quitting, then getting upset over the following sequence of events.

 

[Gally]

What reasons, given the behavior of the other coach, might you imagine this happened?

I don't see any reason to put your starters back into the game.  The yelling from the losing coach starter after the winning coach put his starters back in to press.  There is no reason to put starters back in when the game had already been decided.  That was the #### move that started the avalanche of **** moves. 

 

[matuski]

If I understood the original post Team B did not quit until the starters went back in with the full court press from Team A and the Team B coach did not become a #### himself until that happened.  That was when the losing coach told his players to stop playing.  I think everyone agrees that was the wrong thing to do in any situation. 

I don't see Team B putting in their 2nd string as quitting per your example in a way that would warrant putting the starters back in to press.  This all seemed to hit the fan at the point the winning team put their starters back in to press and run up the score.  That was the #### move that started the ball rolling.

He put his end of bench players in with 2 minutes left in a game that was FAR from over.

He quit.  It blew up in his face.  As it should.

 

[Gally]

In my years coaching, I have never seen a team quit before the game is over.

What any of this has to do with tough guys or snowflakes maybe you can explain to me?

It is about quitting, then getting upset over the following sequence of events.

So you think a coach giving his lesser players a chance at game time in a game that he believed was over is a team quitting?

 

[Short Corner]

In all my years coaching and playing, I have never witnessed a coach putting his starters back in with two mnutes to go when the game was decided. So no, that is far from the result that I would predict. And from the myriad posts here, it seems that nearly everyone but tough guy/this generation is made up of snowflakes agrees

Aren't you one of the tough guys who would commission the assault of a minor?  

 

[matuski]

So you think a coach giving his lesser players a chance at game time in a game that he believed was over is a team quitting?

Now you are opening a can of worms.

In what world is down 12 with 2 mins remaining over?  He believed it was over.. what?  Like my kids believe in elf on a shelf?

 

[the moops]

In my years coaching, I have never seen a team quit before the game is over.

Yea OK. Teams never put their scrubs in with a minute or two to go? GTFO

 

[matuski]

Yea OK. Teams never put their scrubs in with a minute or two to go? GTFO

Not when the game isn't over, no.  That is called quitting.

I'll stay, thanks.

 

[the moops]

Aren't you one of the tough guys who would commission the assault of a minor?  

No. I am the guy who said he always had a crazy kid on the team for situations like the OP. I should have made it clear, that my crazy kid would just be a giant pain in the ### and foul hard and get under opposing players skin. Grab shirts and talk #### and generally just be that dude you dont want to play against

 

[Gally]

He put his end of bench players in with 2 minutes left in a game that was FAR from over.

He quit.  It blew up in his face.  As it should.

This isn't quitting to me.  It's getting lesser players a chance to get game time.  It's high school sports.  It's what happens.  We can debate whether or not his team had a chance being down 12 with 2 minutes to go but for whatever reason he didn't think they could win.  I probably would have thought I could get back in to it but I don't know his team.  I really don't see this is a move that warrants the other guy to put his starters back in to press. 

What the coach told his players to do after the press started is quitting and should never happen.  Putting in lesser players to give their all is not quitting......its coaching the entire team.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

So you think a coach giving his lesser players a chance at game time in a game that he believed was over is a team quitting?

The team with the lead usually pulls the starters first.  The team trailing (in a game most of us believe was not over) doesn't get to dictate when the other team should quit.

 

[Short Corner]

So you think a coach giving his lesser players a chance at game time in a game that he believed was over is a team quitting?

No, but it is not the responsibility of your opponent to nurse you through the end of the game.  It can be argued that the conduct of Coach A, misguided or not, was an attempt to improve his team.  The reaction from Coach B can be seen as only as a tantrum and poor example for developing adolescents.

 

[Gally]

The team with the lead usually pulls the starters first.  The team trailing (in a game most of us believe was not over) doesn't get to dictate when the other team should quit.

The team with the lead did pull his starters first.  They were on the bench when  the losing team put his end of bench guys in.  Then the winning team put his starters back in to press. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

No. I am the guy who said he always had a crazy kid on the team for situations like the OP. I should have made it clear, that my crazy kid would just be a giant pain in the ### and foul hard and get under opposing players skin. Grab shirts and talk #### and generally just be that dude you dont want to play against

LOL that you are worried about another coach being a jerk.  You, an adult,  had a kid on a high school team ready to start #### anytime something happened you didn't like.   Think about that for a minute.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

The team with the lead did pull his starters first.  They were on the bench when  the losing team put his end of bench guys in.  Then the winning team put his starters back in to press. 

Did he pull the starters or was he just subbing guys in and out?   Or did he pull them and put them back in because the lead got too close (I've seen this before too)?

 

[matuski]

This isn't quitting to me. 

And there is the disconnect.

Assuming these are your average (apparently better than average) high school teams, it is not reasonable to argue 12 points in 2 minutes is over.

8 year olds where the score is 14-2?  OK that is over.

 

[the moops]

The team with the lead usually pulls the starters first.  The team trailing (in a game most of us believe was not over) doesn't get to dictate when the other team should quit.

The team with the lead did pull his starters first.  They were on the bench when  the losing team put his end of bench guys in.  Then the winning team put his starters back in to press. 

Yea this.

Winning team believes game is out of hand. Pulls starters.

Losing team agrees, also pulls starters, giving scrubs a chance to play.

Winning team gives a giant middle finger and puts starters back in and institues a full court press.

How anyone sees this as anythng but doosshy is perplexing

 

[dgreen]

Did he pull the starters or was he just subbing guys in and out?   Or did he pull them and put them back in because the lead got too close (I've seen this before too)?

When he saw the players we were sending out, he pulled everyone off the court and re-inserted his starting five.

 

[the moops]

Did he pull the starters or was he just subbing guys in and out?   Or did he pull them and put them back in because the lead got too close (I've seen this before too)?

Did you read the OP. You should, it would help clarify

The opponent had their B Team in before the timeout . . . the coach had taken his starters out a minute or so earlier and put in his second unit

 

[matuski]

@the moops

You are leaning towards getting personal.. lets debate the topic shall we?

 

[Short Corner]

Yea this.

Winning team believes game is out of hand. Pulls starters.

Losing team agrees, also pulls starters, giving scrubs a chance to play.

Winning team gives a giant middle finger and puts starters back in and institues a full court press.

How anyone sees this as anythng but dossshy is perplexing

Keep falling back on your Ad Hominems

 

[the moops]

@the moops

You are leaning towards getting personal.. lets debate the topic shall we?

All good. I know your shtick.

Not personal at all

 

[Gally]

No, but it is not the responsibility of your opponent to nurse you through the end of the game.  It can be argued that the conduct of Coach A, misguided or not, was an attempt to improve his team.  The reaction from Coach B can be seen as only as a tantrum and poor example for developing adolescents.

100% agree that the reaction of Coach B to the winning team putting back in their starters was terrible and completely wrong.  You never tell the team on the court to not play.

However, this isn't about the opponent "nursing you through the end of the game".  The winning coach put all his starters back into the game once the losing team emptied his bench.  That should not have happened.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

On the surface--it feels like very poor sportsmanship to me.   If a team is putting up a "white flag"--I just think it's in poor taste to run up scores.  

However--I do have one question. @Anarchy99    -  you mentioned that the opposing coach had pulled his starters about a minute or two before he put them back in the game.  What was the defecit at the time he pulled his starters out originally?  Was it like a 16-18 pt lead that got cut down to where maybe he felt like his "b"-squad was potentially squandering what should be an easy win?  If his b-squad maintained their lead or built upon it--I see no excuse for him to put his starters back in.  

 

[dgreen]

This isn't quitting to me.  It's getting lesser players a chance to get game time.  It's high school sports.  It's what happens.  We can debate whether or not his team had a chance being down 12 with 2 minutes to go but for whatever reason he didn't think they could win.  I probably would have thought I could get back in to it but I don't know his team.  I really don't see this is a move that warrants the other guy to put his starters back in to press. 

What the coach told his players to do after the press started is quitting and should never happen.  Putting in lesser players to give their all is not quitting......its coaching the entire team.

As matuski said, here's the disconnect. Not thinking you can win and taking an action that makes it even less likely you'll win hovers somewhere around the "quitting" definition. It's not walking-off-the-floor quitting or let-the-team-steal-the-ball-and-play-no-defense quitting, but it's a form of quitting. It's not the players quitting, but it is the coach quitting.

 

[the moops]

Keep falling back on your Ad Hominems

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Did you read the OP. You should, it would help clarify

The opponent had their B Team in before the timeout . . . the coach had taken his starters out a minute or so earlier and put in his second unit

No offense to the OP but I'm sure the story is slanted with his bias too.  And to be clear I'm not defending the winning coach I'm saying we don't necessarily have enough information to call him a jackass and talk about sending end of the bench punks to start playing dirty against his team.   What we do know is the losing coach made a fool of himself and his team by acting like a 5 year old on the sidelines.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

  Like my kids believe in elf on a shelf?

Like you believe you can beat up one of the greatest boxers in modern history?

 

[matuski]

Something is off here.  12 points up 2 mins to go.

Are we sure all the starters were pulled?  Maybe a couple or a few?

The game isn't over so the leading team pulling starters doesn't make sense either.

 

[Short Corner]

Don't read your own posts?

 

[matuski]

Like you believe you can beat up one of the greatest boxers in modern history?

I don't believe that at all?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Anybody got a box score or online paper review of this game?

 

[Short Corner]

No offense to the OP but I'm sure the story is slanted with his bias too.  And to be clear I'm not defending the winning coach I'm saying we don't necessarily have enough information to call him a jackass and talk about sending end of the bench punks to start playing dirty against his team.   What we do know is the losing coach made a fool of himself and his team by acting like a 5 year old on the sidelines.

I gathered that too.  Seems the narrative is a bit skewed

 

[matuski]

Anybody got a box score or online paper review of this game?

This would help.  Re reading the OP, the sequence of events doesn't sound right.

 

[Short Corner]

Anybody got a box score or online paper review of this game?

Maxpreps is blocked in EU.  Seems they are the only site that can't figure out how to get you to click a data waiver pop up or whatever the #### you call it.

 

[Gally]

As matuski said, here's the disconnect. Not thinking you can win and taking an action that makes it even less likely you'll win hovers somewhere around the "quitting" definition. It's not walking-off-the-floor quitting or let-the-team-steal-the-ball-and-play-no-defense quitting, but it's a form of quitting. It's not the players quitting, but it is the coach quitting.

Coaches have this dilemma all the time.  To me "quitting" has a different connotation from a coaching perspective and player perspective.  As a coach (especially a high school/youth coach) has a bigger responsibility than win at all costs.  There are times when you see your team play and realize that it probably isn't in the cards to win that particular night so you substitute to get some additional playing time for players that need work.  You expect them to give it their all and try and win and you hope they can succeed and get back in the game knowing it is unlikely.  That is not what I would call "quitting".  I understand what you are trying to allude to but I disagree with using that as an excuse that the other team is quitting to then give them a lesson by putting all the starters back in to run up the score.