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How can you be "fairly certain" if you have so few answers?I don't have all the answers. But I'm fairly certain that the situation will not improve by saying "enough is enough ... They need to take responsibility for their own lot in life."Actually I think my point is spot on. But let's hear your reasons for the problems in the black community and what needs to be done to improve things there. TIA
You accuse someone of superficial analysis and this is all you can come back with? Jesus what a joke. Anyone with an ounce of self-awareness should be embarassed.I don't have all the answers. But I'm fairly certain that the situation will not improve by saying "enough is enough ... They need to take responsibility for their own lot in life."Actually I think my point is spot on. But let's hear your reasons for the problems in the black community and what needs to be done to improve things there. TIA
Because they are uneducated. A lot of this revolves around education. When you have a culture that doesn't value education coupled with an education system that is in shambles you end up with major problems. Families that care about education move to the suburbs or send their kids to private school. If you can't afford those options you have to spend a lot of time with your kids overcoming the deficiencies in the system. Since most African American kids grow up in a single parent household you don’t get that.My daughter goes to a school that has a segment of low income housing students. The lack of parental involvement is very unfortunate. Not only is it visible in school activities, but even just basic hygiene is lacking. You can’t help but feel bad for the teachers that want to help, but have limited environmental control. The frustration is obvious.Fixing the education system would be a huge step in the right direction, but it’s going to take a lot more than money and noone seems to be willing to step up to the plate. As for single-parent households I think the current state of welfare has to change. The propensity for a single Mom to rake in welfare while the unmarried father works and pays for things outside of the marriage leads to an easy out should the father wish to take it. Tax laws and welfare laws have to change so that it gives more support to married couples as opposed to single mothers.As for the cultural issue, where education is not seen as an imporant building block to future success, that really lies with African American families. They are going to have to reject people like Sharpton and Jackson and embrace people like Obama (assuming Obama stays on message). I’m always amazed at how many African-Americans really feed off of the idiocy that Jackson and Sharpton spout. Anyone that is that out of touch with reality isn’t going anywhere in life.
so far you haven't offered ANY answers. And that's just to one thing I said. You said all my points were "superficial". What I want from you isn't an "answer". I want you to list the "non superficial" causes of the problems in the black community. The answers are difficult. I just want you to list what you believe are the reasons for the problems, as I did.I don't have all the answers. But I'm fairly certain that the situation will not improve by saying "enough is enough ... They need to take responsibility for their own lot in life."Actually I think my point is spot on. But let's hear your reasons for the problems in the black community and what needs to be done to improve things there. TIA
Ok, forget monetary reparations and let's focus on 'deeds'. Whatever that means for a government. My question is really about what qualifies a people group that has suffered historical transgressions for these 'deeds'? Why does this people group deserve it and another does not? How do you weigh the evils of the past? I would agree with you that making inner city schools more capable of educating the children (be it of whatever people group they may be from) is not 'special treatment' but that is not all we are talking about, is it? Reparations is a word that like many in the English language have several meanings. In American politics, it has most often meant paying money. Obama, who is a smart guy, should have known that this was a bad choice of words if he did not mean it as a lot of us are taking it. Then again, it could be that he knew what he was doing and did not care because it is what he believes.
Excellent point. That is the discussion right now in Nashville as our govt housing areas are riddled with crime.StrikeS2k said:
Excellent observations.My wife teaches 1st and 2nd grade (she loops, has them for 1st and then again for 2nd, then goes back to 1st) and has for about 14 years. Each year the story is the same: She'll have about 12 white kids and 8 black kids. Virtually every white kid's parents are involved, come to the conferences, return notes, etc. However, she might have 1 or 2 of the black kids' parents be involved each year.
I agree with urbanhack that the root causes primarily relate to the history of oppression against black people in this country. Each generation builds upon the previous generation.so far you haven't offered ANY answers. And that's just to one thing I said. You said all my points were "superficial". What I want from you isn't an "answer". I want you to list the "non superficial" causes of the problems in the black community. The answers are difficult. I just want you to list what you believe are the reasons for the problems, as I did.I don't have all the answers. But I'm fairly certain that the situation will not improve by saying "enough is enough ... They need to take responsibility for their own lot in life."Actually I think my point is spot on. But let's hear your reasons for the problems in the black community and what needs to be done to improve things there. TIA
Another excellent example of somebody not analyzing the root cause.Why is it that people have a hard time getting past the surface? The answer is because they don't want to.
I think your analysis is superficial.I agree with urbanhack that the root causes primarily relate to the history of oppression against black people in this country. Each generation builds upon the previous generation.so far you haven't offered ANY answers. And that's just to one thing I said. You said all my points were "superficial". What I want from you isn't an "answer". I want you to list the "non superficial" causes of the problems in the black community. The answers are difficult. I just want you to list what you believe are the reasons for the problems, as I did.I don't have all the answers. But I'm fairly certain that the situation will not improve by saying "enough is enough ... They need to take responsibility for their own lot in life."Actually I think my point is spot on. But let's hear your reasons for the problems in the black community and what needs to be done to improve things there. TIA
If only we were all as enlightened as you are.
I know I'll regret this, but WTH are you talking about?
wat? Root cause?? "150+ years ago, my family was enslaved, so I'm NOT going to my kid's parent teacher conference.. " Not a good reason IMO...
Now you understand how most of the FFA feels when they read just about any of your posts.
Such as?
I'd say two strong examples are free trade and gun control.
Plaque, or plague?I still think a tastefully done plaque would be nice. . .
What do you think the percentage of people that are on welfare move on and above it to prosper in the lives? Just curious.
Plaque, we tried the plague thing once and it didn't work out so well.Plaque, or plague?I still think a tastefully done plaque would be nice. . .
How is that relevant?Chadstroma said:What do you think the percentage of people that are on welfare move on and above it to prosper in the lives? Just curious.Christo said:Welfare destroyed the African American family in this country.
It never seems to be.How is that relevant?Chadstroma said:What do you think the percentage of people that are on welfare move on and above it to prosper in the lives? Just curious.Christo said:
Well... is anything the government does to help someone worthwhile if all it does is produce dependents to the state? Any assistance program the government does should have the ultimate goal of getting people to be self-reliant. Now, isn't it possible that since the current Welfare system either does not attempt to do this or in fact fails to, that this is a contributing factor to the collapse of many an African American family in this country? Certainly because of the scale of failure that we see within the community, there are many factors. Likely a minor factor but certainly it can be agreed that the current welfare system is not a positive to the community.How is that relevant?Chadstroma said:What do you think the percentage of people that are on welfare move on and above it to prosper in the lives? Just curious.Christo said:
I'm sure that those who rely on welfare for food and shelter are with you.Well... is anything the government does to help someone worthwhile if all it does is produce dependents to the state? Any assistance program the government does should have the ultimate goal of getting people to be self-reliant.How is that relevant?Chadstroma said:What do you think the percentage of people that are on welfare move on and above it to prosper in the lives? Just curious.Christo said:
Now, isn't it possible that since the current Welfare system either does not attempt to do this or in fact fails to, that this is a contributing factor to the collapse of many an African American family in this country?
Certainly because of the scale of failure that we see within the community, there are many factors. Likely a minor factor but certainly it can be agreed that the current welfare system is not a positive to the community.
But why tie better inner-city schools to the concept of reparations at all? Should we not want better inner-city schools for all students, not just the descendents of slaves?Said what? That reparations should be in the form of better inner city schools and jobs? How is that controversial?Are you saying he did not say this? If he did say this are you saying he just says things without really meaning it?And every time I think you might be a rational person, you post something like this.Even if monetary reparations was the strongest issue Barack Obama personally supported, does anyone think he's dumb enough to actual state that? And does anyone really think he actually even believes that?Every time I start getting comfortable with the thought of a President Obama he goes and says something along these lines.
Perhaps some should stop looking at the effects of slavery on their culture and start looking at the consequences of their own actions. I am talking regarding the family unit here, not jobs or education.
Unlike the common perception, several slaves brought to the colonies were prisoners captured in tribal warfare that would have been executed otherwise. You might say that the institution of slavery, no matter how disgusting we view it today, is actually the reason many descendents of slaves are aound - their ancestors lived when they might otherwise have become arm soup.I am sorry let me fixed that.Slavery was a boon for the African 'American' family in this country and it still reeps the benefits. Do you not understand the value of a solid family unit? They should be payin gus for this great reward we gave them by bringing their ancestors over here so they could now live in freedom.
Funny you say that. I had a conversation with a friend of mine who owns a house that they rent out to Section 8. She said that most of the time when they were interviewing they were in awe at the crap they saw. Everything from some chick driving up in a brand new Maxima with children in all name brand clothes to people who obviously did not care about anything, including where they lived.I'm sure that those who rely on welfare for food and shelter are with you.Well... is anything the government does to help someone worthwhile if all it does is produce dependents to the state? Any assistance program the government does should have the ultimate goal of getting people to be self-reliant.How is that relevant?Chadstroma said:What do you think the percentage of people that are on welfare move on and above it to prosper in the lives? Just curious.Christo said:
Now, isn't it possible that since the current Welfare system either does not attempt to do this or in fact fails to, that this is a contributing factor to the collapse of many an African American family in this country?
Certainly because of the scale of failure that we see within the community, there are many factors. Likely a minor factor but certainly it can be agreed that the current welfare system is not a positive to the community.
And? Sounds like this woman wasn't making the same decisions that you and I would make - but are you really suggesting we do away with welfare because this woman had a 350 car payment instead of a 200 car payment, and because she takes pride in how she dresses her kids? People that live in poverty have very little to take pride in - often it comes down to Tommy Hilfiger tags and $150 chain. Again, while she could obviously save money by driving a used Corolla and getting clothes from the salvation army, I don't fault some of these people for wanting a little something to be proud of.And I certainly don't think we should scrap welfare and the millions of meals and shelter it provides for innocent children because a few bad apples give conservatives a poster child to whine about.
Again, I really think you're making some poor assumptions here. It's pretty easy for professionals like us who play on the internet all day to pass judgment on people who are really living in poverty, but I think you may want to reconsider these thoughts. I'm pretty sure you've never walked a yard in these peoples shoes, so I doubt you know what it's like to be down to your last dollar and not know where your next meal is going to come from. Not saying you can't have an opinion without living in poverty yourself - just pointing out that your characterizations of welfare reek of conservative talking points and suggest that you don't have any idea how many people are helped by welfare programs every day.TANF is generally regarded a very successful reform of the welfare system. It's not perfect, every system will have folks who abuse it.
Incredible.
So should we approach it with the mindset that they really like war, or that they are really greedy?
war is just a means to wealth, so i'd say greedy.
Why not have "pride" in the ways of wisdom, love and reason; as opposed to a $150 chain and name brand clothes? Pride in name brand clothing is shallow, tawdry and cheap; symbolism over substance.And? Sounds like this woman wasn't making the same decisions that you and I would make - but are you really suggesting we do away with welfare because this woman had a 350 car payment instead of a 200 car payment, and because she takes pride in how she dresses her kids? People that live in poverty have very little to take pride in - often it comes down to Tommy Hilfiger tags and $150 chain. Again, while she could obviously save money by driving a used Corolla and getting clothes from the salvation army, I don't fault some of these people for wanting a little something to be proud of.And I certainly don't think we should scrap welfare and the millions of meals and shelter it provides for innocent children because a few bad apples give conservatives a poster child to whine about.
Again, I really think you're making some poor assumptions here. It's pretty easy for professionals like us who play on the internet all day to pass judgment on people who are really living in poverty, but I think you may want to reconsider these thoughts. I'm pretty sure you've never walked a yard in these peoples shoes, so I doubt you know what it's like to be down to your last dollar and not know where your next meal is going to come from. Not saying you can't have an opinion without living in poverty yourself - just pointing out that your characterizations of welfare reek of conservative talking points and suggest that you don't have any idea how many people are helped by welfare programs every day.TANF is generally regarded a very successful reform of the welfare system. It's not perfect, every system will have folks who abuse it.
But I'm biased. I have far more problems with millions of dollars in subsides for Exxon and BP than I do for a woman dressing her kids in Gap jeans.
That is not solely a welfare or a race thing.fsword said:Why not have "pride" in the ways of wisdom, love and reason; as opposed to a $150 chain and name brand clothes? Pride in name brand clothing is shallow, tawdry and cheap; symbolism over substance.tommyGunZ said:And? Sounds like this woman wasn't making the same decisions that you and I would make - but are you really suggesting we do away with welfare because this woman had a 350 car payment instead of a 200 car payment, and because she takes pride in how she dresses her kids? People that live in poverty have very little to take pride in - often it comes down to Tommy Hilfiger tags and $150 chain. Again, while she could obviously save money by driving a used Corolla and getting clothes from the salvation army, I don't fault some of these people for wanting a little something to be proud of.And I certainly don't think we should scrap welfare and the millions of meals and shelter it provides for innocent children because a few bad apples give conservatives a poster child to whine about.Chadstroma said:
Again, I really think you're making some poor assumptions here. It's pretty easy for professionals like us who play on the internet all day to pass judgment on people who are really living in poverty, but I think you may want to reconsider these thoughts. I'm pretty sure you've never walked a yard in these peoples shoes, so I doubt you know what it's like to be down to your last dollar and not know where your next meal is going to come from. Not saying you can't have an opinion without living in poverty yourself - just pointing out that your characterizations of welfare reek of conservative talking points and suggest that you don't have any idea how many people are helped by welfare programs every day.TANF is generally regarded a very successful reform of the welfare system. It's not perfect, every system will have folks who abuse it.
But I'm biased. I have far more problems with millions of dollars in subsides for Exxon and BP than I do for a woman dressing her kids in Gap jeans.
If the shirt reads, "Waaaaaaaaah, I'm black in America and I'm owed something!", then :subscribe:
Agreed. This discussion shifted to Welfare and away from the original post.That is not solely a welfare or a race thing.fsword said:Why not have "pride" in the ways of wisdom, love and reason; as opposed to a $150 chain and name brand clothes? Pride in name brand clothing is shallow, tawdry and cheap; symbolism over substance.tommyGunZ said:And? Sounds like this woman wasn't making the same decisions that you and I would make - but are you really suggesting we do away with welfare because this woman had a 350 car payment instead of a 200 car payment, and because she takes pride in how she dresses her kids? People that live in poverty have very little to take pride in - often it comes down to Tommy Hilfiger tags and $150 chain. Again, while she could obviously save money by driving a used Corolla and getting clothes from the salvation army, I don't fault some of these people for wanting a little something to be proud of.And I certainly don't think we should scrap welfare and the millions of meals and shelter it provides for innocent children because a few bad apples give conservatives a poster child to whine about.Chadstroma said:
Again, I really think you're making some poor assumptions here. It's pretty easy for professionals like us who play on the internet all day to pass judgment on people who are really living in poverty, but I think you may want to reconsider these thoughts. I'm pretty sure you've never walked a yard in these peoples shoes, so I doubt you know what it's like to be down to your last dollar and not know where your next meal is going to come from. Not saying you can't have an opinion without living in poverty yourself - just pointing out that your characterizations of welfare reek of conservative talking points and suggest that you don't have any idea how many people are helped by welfare programs every day.TANF is generally regarded a very successful reform of the welfare system. It's not perfect, every system will have folks who abuse it.
But I'm biased. I have far more problems with millions of dollars in subsides for Exxon and BP than I do for a woman dressing her kids in Gap jeans.
