Obesity and Ozempic and more (4 Viewers)

[rockaction]

I say all that full well knowing that something could be really bad in the offing, but somehow for now the lizard is king. He does everything!

(I didn’t know this, but the drug is derived from a lizard’s internal secretion of fluid somewhere for some reason).



She’s a beautiful one indeed

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

 

[Pip's Invitation]

I say all that full well knowing that something could be really bad in the offing, but somehow for now the lizard is king. He does everything!

(I didn’t know this, but the drug is derived from a lizard’s internal secretion of fluid somewhere for some reason).



She’s a beautiful one indeed

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

The cardiologists I trust the most about stuff like this seem to think that its ability to reduce inflammation is driving a lot of this. Inflammation leads to a lot of bad things, so keeping it down is likely to do a lot of good things.

Another study presented at the ESC showed that inflammation was a bigger factor than cholesterol for prediction of 30-year heart disease risk in women. 70% greater risk for women in the top 20% of an inflammation biomarker vs women in the bottom 20%. LDL (“bad” cholesterol) and Lp(a) (an even worse cholesterol for which specific treatments will be available soon) had a difference of about 35% in the highest and lowest groups.

The researchers recommended that everyone be tested not only for LDL, but also for Lp(a) and CRP (the inflammation biomarker).

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Maybe dumb Qs, but I'm having a hard time finding answers...

If I've dropped my BMI from 36.2 to 32.9 and ramped up activity levels to maybe 240 mins a week of moderate activity (over last 2-3 months) and I haven't been diagnosed with any sort of diabetes or etc already, do I get the benefit of a lower chance of getting diabetes or other weight-related diseases today? Is going in a good direction protection in and of itself? Or do you have to get all the way back down to healthy levels to get that benefit?

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Maybe dumb Qs, but I'm having a hard time finding answers...

If I've dropped my BMI from 36.2 to 32.9 and ramped up activity levels to maybe 240 mins a week of moderate activity (over last 2-3 months) and I haven't been diagnosed with any sort of diabetes or etc already, do I get the benefit of a lower chance of getting diabetes or other weight-related diseases today? Is going in a good direction protection in and of itself? Or do you have to get all the way back down to healthy levels to get that benefit?

Not a doctor but a medical journalist. My sense is that it’s a sliding scale. You are already in a better position than you were before starting the drug, but the biggest benefits will come with greater degrees of weight loss.

Of note, at a conference I was at earlier this year, the panelists for the obesity session were asked if patients should be on GLP-1s (Ozempic, Wegovy, Mounjaro, Zepbound, etc) for life once put on them. They all said yes.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Thanks Pip... I'm not actually on drugs. I'm participating via the "obese" portion of the program and it seemed like someone here might know the answer.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Thanks Pip... I'm not actually on drugs. I'm participating via the "obese" portion of the program and it seemed like someone here might know the answer.

Ah, got it. Well, the more weight you lose, the better off you will be as far as things like risk for diabetes, heart disease, kidney disease, etc. Good luck!

 

[brun]

Just sharing my son's experience so far with wegovy. 3 months in IIRC
Currently at 1.0 dose. Next will be 1.7.
Down 51 lbs
Feels like crap for about 1.5 - 2 days after dosing.
Seems like every new prescription he calls 2-4 pharmacies to find one with the drug in stock.

 

[culdeus]

Just sharing my son's experience so far with wegovy. 3 months in IIRC
Currently at 1.0 dose. Next will be 1.7.
Down 51 lbs
Feels like crap for about 1.5 - 2 days after dosing.
Seems like every new prescription he calls 2-4 pharmacies to find one with the drug in stock.

The consensus is building to make it a half dose 2x a week at 1.0 and above. Seems to help

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Just sharing my son's experience so far with wegovy. 3 months in IIRC
Currently at 1.0 dose. Next will be 1.7.
Down 51 lbs
Feels like crap for about 1.5 - 2 days after dosing.
Seems like every new prescription he calls 2-4 pharmacies to find one with the drug in stock.

Yeah, there’s a shortage because a bunch of people are taking it purely for moderate weight loss when that’s not what it’s for — it’s for people with or at high risk for other diseases who could reduce their chances for those if they lost a lot of weight. Novo Nordisk is beefing up their manufacturing, so hopefully the supply issues will be resolved eventually.

 

[brun]

Just sharing my son's experience so far with wegovy. 3 months in IIRC
Currently at 1.0 dose. Next will be 1.7.
Down 51 lbs
Feels like crap for about 1.5 - 2 days after dosing.
Seems like every new prescription he calls 2-4 pharmacies to find one with the drug in stock.

The consensus is building to make it a half dose 2x a week at 1.0 and above. Seems to help

He'll be getting a new doctor. Current doc, only 1 at the practice, is leaving.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Interesting article on the carnivore movement

Self-proclaimed carnivores eat mostly four ingredients: beef, bacon, butter and eggs. (Some incorporate other raw dairy products, selected fruits such as blueberries and seafood into their regimens.) Influencers share recipes for delicacies such as “beef lattes” (coffee, butter, beef protein, colostrum, cinnamon) and snack on “pup patties” from In-N-Out’s secret menu (unseasoned beef, so called because you can safely give it to your dog).

According to its fans, the benefits of the diet range from rapid weight loss to the healing of long-term chronic conditions including depression, polycystic ovary syndrome, acne, eczema, diabetes and psoriasis.

According to almost everyone else – including the registered nutritionists and doctors trying to treat people who have tried the diet for prolonged periods – a diet of only meat with no vegetables or grains is, at best, a form of disordered eating, and at worst incredibly damaging for its adherents, particularly in the long term.

 

[AAABatteries]

Interesting article on the carnivore movement

Self-proclaimed carnivores eat mostly four ingredients: beef, bacon, butter and eggs. (Some incorporate other raw dairy products, selected fruits such as blueberries and seafood into their regimens.) Influencers share recipes for delicacies such as “beef lattes” (coffee, butter, beef protein, colostrum, cinnamon) and snack on “pup patties” from In-N-Out’s secret menu (unseasoned beef, so called because you can safely give it to your dog).

According to its fans, the benefits of the diet range from rapid weight loss to the healing of long-term chronic conditions including depression, polycystic ovary syndrome, acne, eczema, diabetes and psoriasis.

According to almost everyone else – including the registered nutritionists and doctors trying to treat people who have tried the diet for prolonged periods – a diet of only meat with no vegetables or grains is, at best, a form of disordered eating, and at worst incredibly damaging for its adherents, particularly in the long term.

Two things:
1. One thing I hope is that we analyze if and why some of these benefits occur.
2. Why are they only eating beef and bacon and not chicken, fish, other pork, etc?

 

[FarFromHome]

New to the thread. My 24 year old son just moved back home. Severely obese. Like 5 ft 9 and 350 plus pounds. Breaks my heart to see him just walk. We have begun to look into Ozempic. I'm at a 1st grade level of understanding the drug. This thread seems like a good start.

 

[Judge Smails]

Well it looks like I'm going to give Ozempic a try. I could stand to lose some weight but I'm not obese. Think I'm around 217. A little over 6 feet. All time high is 242 maybe 10 years ago and I've gotten down to 200 before through strict diet and exercise. Felt really good at that weight. Of course the recommendations for my height is somewhere around 180, which I haven't been since high school. So it isn't about weight loss per se but I'd welcome it, as it's getting harder to lose weight as I age. Diabetes is rampant in my family. Dad died due to complications, leg amputated, brother has had toes amputated, other brother had blood sugars over 800 when first tested, etc. (he has lost 75 pounds on another program and is doing great now). I'm not diabetic but technically pre. Been mostly in the 5.8 A1C range but has crept to 6. Most of you know I had a widowmaker 5 years ago after I got off a vigorous Peloton ride. My cardiologist is more concerned with blood sugars than anything else. Blood pressure, cholesterol, other numbers all great as are stress test and carotid artery tests. But you don't want diabetes on top of a previous heart condition. Metformin did nothing. Now on Jardiance. Getting a blood test soon. I went to my primary care doc for a physical and discussed it. He said let's try for Ozempic and see if your insurance will approve it. Well - I just got a notification from CVS that they did and it's ready for pick up. $25. Not bad. So I'll likely start this as soon as I return from Greece in two weeks. My friend had her A1C go from 6.5 to 5.6 after a few months on Ozempic. Will report back.

 

[bigbottom]

Best of luck to you @Judge Smails!

 

[Brunell4MVP]

2 years ago to the day I was 272 lbs.
1 year ago after working out for a year I hit a major wall at 254 lbs.

Honestly I was in adequate shape at 254 lb no matter what the BMI charts say. I could play BBall for 2-3 hours a couple nights a week, played indoor soccer, jog a 5k, etc with no problem. Yes there was too much around the waist, but my fat percentage was average. And that's the number that matters IMO.

A year later .... started Oz in ~November 2023. As of March was at 232 lbs. I did not change my diet or routine. It stops the cravings. I simply eat far less. Never feel the need to stop for fast food or eat at night. Oz was a bit rough at the start from being tired. But it went away after 2 weeks. In April I went off it to see if I could keep the weight down. I am still at 232 lbs. I am now going to do monjauro to see if I can knock out more weight. Would love to be at 210 lbs. Which was my fighting weight playing college sports.

Also I am off all my blood pressure and cholesterol meds. Those problems went away within 2 months of taking Oz.

Just saying ... it helps those of us that aren't blessed with great fat genetics and/or have bad food habits, though I've helped the latter by making scrambled eggs and air frying raw shrimp my snacks. Oz was was the best medical decision I've made. Even better than being a guinea pig for lasik in the 90s.

Don't hesitate to give it a try and see if it helps you.

ETA ... I also fired my doctor 1.5 years ago because she did not want me to take it. Said she had patients that needed it more. Getting rid of her and going to telehealth really helped. Some of these old school docs following their charts and procedures from 2000 are part of the problem. If you get yourself fixed up, you no longer need to see them. Healthcare is a complete mess. Take it into your own hands.

Update now at 214 lbs. So down 58 lbs from my highest and about 40 from former normal. Down from a size 40 to 35.

Feel fantastic 95% of the day. I'd say the one thing I need to do now is lift weights. I've always been muscular and I'm losing it. this makes me sore after longer activities like walking a golf course, playing with kids at the beach, etc). It's not so much about the intensity, it's the duration. So be prepared to hit the weights as you lose pounds. I haven't done it enough and i feel it.
.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Eventually you will be able to take these new weight-loss drugs in pill form. Several have had their first-in-human studies presented recently.

 

[culdeus]

Eventually you will be able to take these new weight-loss drugs in pill form. Several have had their first-in-human studies presented recently.

Assume cost goes down. But who knows.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Do we know how it accomplished that? As with almost everything else it does, not really.

They’re going to find out something bad about this drug. I swear. Give ‘em enough time. Because right now it’s an aid to addiction, weight loss, dementia, COVID morbidity, and other things I’m probably forgetting.

I my drug. Still hovering around 188 pounds or so. Maybe 190, up from 184 a few months ago. Still loving it.

Why are you taking it at that weight? Were you much heavier or have diabetes? I fluctuate between 183 and 189 I’m 5’10. Just curious

 

[rockaction]

Because I dropped from 230 with diabetes.

 

[cosjobs]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

Why did they think the drug caused it?

My understanding is that emergency gallbladder removal is actually fairly common. Both my wife and I have had it done.

It is well known that quick weight loss, and losing a high percentage (>25%) of one's body weight promotes gallbladder disease. It's an indirect consequence of the drug serving its intended purpose.

And oh yeah, obese people are more likely to have gallstones a priori, so it's not surprising people achieving rapid, massive weight loss, by any means, experience gallbladder problems.

What if you don't have a gall bladder?
I went on Carnivore about a week ago with the recommended high fat, but I have spaced it over 3-4 meals attempting to not drastically overload in one sitting. Its worked so far.

 

[MTskibum]

Interesting article on the carnivore movement

Self-proclaimed carnivores eat mostly four ingredients: beef, bacon, butter and eggs. (Some incorporate other raw dairy products, selected fruits such as blueberries and seafood into their regimens.) Influencers share recipes for delicacies such as “beef lattes” (coffee, butter, beef protein, colostrum, cinnamon) and snack on “pup patties” from In-N-Out’s secret menu (unseasoned beef, so called because you can safely give it to your dog).

According to its fans, the benefits of the diet range from rapid weight loss to the healing of long-term chronic conditions including depression, polycystic ovary syndrome, acne, eczema, diabetes and psoriasis.

According to almost everyone else – including the registered nutritionists and doctors trying to treat people who have tried the diet for prolonged periods – a diet of only meat with no vegetables or grains is, at best, a form of disordered eating, and at worst incredibly damaging for its adherents, particularly in the long term.

Reading your post I imagine all of the carnivore's hunting the free range butter. The butter is a wily foe, you have to sneak up and attack quickly to catch it as prey.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

Why did they think the drug caused it?

My understanding is that emergency gallbladder removal is actually fairly common. Both my wife and I have had it done.

It is well known that quick weight loss, and losing a high percentage (>25%) of one's body weight promotes gallbladder disease. It's an indirect consequence of the drug serving its intended purpose.

And oh yeah, obese people are more likely to have gallstones a priori, so it's not surprising people achieving rapid, massive weight loss, by any means, experience gallbladder problems.

What if you don't have a gall bladder?
I went on Carnivore about a week ago with the recommended high fat, but I have spaced it over 3-4 meals attempting to not drastically overload in one sitting. Its worked so far.

Well, just about any diet which facilitates weight loss, and can be maintained is better than remaining obese.

That said, I don’t think anyone reputable is advocating the carnivore lifestyle. At the minimum, high saturated fat and low fiber intake are correlated with several medical problems (vascular disease, diverticulosis, some cancers) and excess animal protein is associated with higher mortality in people under age 65.

There’s probably a half dozen diets I’d attempt before taking the plunge with carnivorism, given no evidence to support it, and likely some harm.

 

[cosjobs]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

Why did they think the drug caused it?

My understanding is that emergency gallbladder removal is actually fairly common. Both my wife and I have had it done.

It is well known that quick weight loss, and losing a high percentage (>25%) of one's body weight promotes gallbladder disease. It's an indirect consequence of the drug serving its intended purpose.

And oh yeah, obese people are more likely to have gallstones a priori, so it's not surprising people achieving rapid, massive weight loss, by any means, experience gallbladder problems.

What if you don't have a gall bladder?
I went on Carnivore about a week ago with the recommended high fat, but I have spaced it over 3-4 meals attempting to not drastically overload in one sitting. Its worked so far.

Well, just about any diet which facilitates weight loss, and can be maintained is better than remaining obese.

That said, I don’t think anyone reputable is advocating the carnivore lifestyle. At the minimum, high saturated fat and low fiber intake are correlated with several medical problems (vascular disease, diverticulosis, some cancers) and excess animal protein is associated with excess mortality in people under age 65.

There’s probably a half dozen diets I’d attempt before taking the plunge with carnivorism, given no evidence to support it, and likely some harm.

I'm happy to discuss and evaluate my decicion for carnivore. One of my questions about it now, is particularly in regard to no gall bladder

 

[cosjobs]

My dieting history:
Until 3, normal weight (side note that is when my parents brought in two foster kids about 10-12 yr old.)
adolescence - Was on a myriad of diets. with occasional success, but always regained quickly. By the time i was 10, my doc started me on amphetamines which were rotated into the diets regularly. but not constantly
post puberty - more of the same. Some luck with amphetamines in college and with all those ladies around, I got down to 175 (I was always over 200since 7th grade).
Pretty much tayed 175-200 until my thirties, when I went from 200 t0 300 and stayed in the 280-330 range until my 50s when I got a lap band and the mostly kept 290-310.
In my late 50s got into Ancestral Health and cleaned up a lot of my diet, in the 60s ranging from 255-290 for a decade.
Two years ago I began Ozempic. Nothing from the minimal does, but when cranked to a high dose I went from 280 to 240. Decided to switch to Mounharo since it provided a larger % loss. The last year on Oz, I had basically stalled. On 12.5 Mou dose I has a tiny lossover a few months, so we decided to go max dose (15mg).
Started reading about the Carn diet recently and when looking for some inflammation relief. Everything hurt.
The carnivore diet seems fantastic for that and also seems to be a good way to do an elimination diet.
I'm only a week in, but my inflammation has greatly decreased and I am able to do much more exercise and don't hurt all the time.
So I decided to stay with this a while. I also decided that it would be a good time to stop Mou for a while and maybe dodge the typical gpost-semi-glutide weight gain.
I hope to stay on a month or three and get my inflammation under control and and get down to under 200 (at 231 already).
After I milk it for all the quick front-end weight loss I can garner, I plan to transition slowly to Keto and add foods slowly to try and discover anything causing inflammation. I also will have the opportunity to resume the Mou if I start regaining weight(I am curious to see how it works on a re-start).
I'll be 70 in July and hope to be in pretty good shape to face the final rounds of coslife.

Believe it or not this is a very truncated like weight history. I'm happy to provide any more info or details on request. The other major factor was is major depression throughout my life. Its definitely a factor, but I really don't know exactly how it has affected my physicality. Its not been so bad the last 30 years, but it has been reintroducing itself lately. That is also anothe hat tip to the carno lifestyle, as many show extremely positive results.

I intended to read the entire thread before posting, but I'm only on P. 6 (and listened to Joe's OP podcast (it was really good: Thanks for sharing that, Joe

 

[Pip's Invitation]

The FDA approved a new indication for Ozempic today. It is now also indicated for reduction of kidney failure, worsening kidney disease and death from cardiovascular disease in patients with chronic kidney disease and type 2 diabetes.

 

[rockaction]

Hey, cos! Nice to see you around these parts.

As far as Ozempic goes, I've plateaued and am back up to 195 or so from 185 down from 230 or so (these are all rounded—I started at 233, got to 183, and sit now at 197 or so). I'm going to talk with my doctor about increasing the dosage from 1 MG.

The FDA approved a new indication for Ozempic today. It is now also indicated for reduction of kidney failure, worsening kidney disease and death from cardiovascular disease in patients with chronic kidney disease and type 2 diabetes.

I'm swooning. I hope my thyroid holds up.

 

[Penguin]

Just eat clean, that's all it takes.

If you want to add peptides I can't argue with that.

I've heard the majority of weight loss from ozempic is muscle mass and not fat, which in return will lower your metabolism, I 'm not an expert so I don't know.

Either way, natural is always better, shortcuts always have pitfalls.

 

[gianmarco]

Just eat clean, that's all it takes.

If you want to add peptides I can't argue with that.

I've heard the majority of weight loss from ozempic is muscle mass and not fat, which in return will lower your metabolism, I 'm not an expert so I don't know.

Either way, natural is always better, shortcuts always have pitfalls.

Just stop being sad, that's all it takes (depression)
Just stop drinking, that's all it takes (alcoholism)
Just stop smoking, that's all it takes (tobacco use)
Just stop doing drugs, that's all it takes (take your pick)
And on and on...

If it was that easy, then we wouldn't have an obesity epidemic. Natural is always better, sure, but natural doesn't work for everyone. This isn't a "shortcut". It's a life changing/life saving medicine for many. Same as medicine for similar conditions above (antidepressants, smoking cessation aids, etc).

The stigma attached to these things by comments and thoughts like this when people are trying to improve their lives is so unfortunate.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

I've heard the majority of weight loss from ozempic is muscle mass and not fat, which in return will lower your metabolism, I 'm not an expert so I don't know.

It's not the majority, but it's not an insignificant portion. These is disagreement among obesity specialists as to whether this creates problems like sarcopenia.

There are new drugs in development that purport to cause weight loss without compromising muscle mass. None of them have gotten to phase 3 studies yet, so we don't know if they will do as they claim.

 

[cosjobs]

I've heard the majority of weight loss from ozempic is muscle mass and not fat, which in return will lower your metabolism, I 'm not an expert so I don't know.

It's not the majority, but it's not an insignificant portion. These is disagreement among obesity specialists as to whether this creates problems like sarcopenia.

There are new drugs in development that purport to cause weight loss without compromising muscle mass. None of them have gotten to phase 3 studies yet, so we don't know if they will do as they claim.

I don't think there will be an issue with this on the Carnivore diet.

 

[cosjobs]

Hey, cos! Nice to see you around these parts.

As far as Ozempic goes, I've plateaued and am back up to 195 or so from 185 down from 230 or so (these are all rounded—I started at 233, got to 183, and sit now at 197 or so). I'm going to talk with my doctor about increasing the dosage from 1 MG.

The FDA approved a new indication for Ozempic today. It is now also indicated for reduction of kidney failure, worsening kidney disease and death from cardiovascular disease in patients with chronic kidney disease and type 2 diabetes.

I'm swooning. I hope my thyroid holds up.

My first plateaus on OZY started about 6-8 mos after starting. Within a few months later, I was drinking again. Not much. no more than a few drinks a week vs. zero. I decided to swith to Mounjaro, since its inclusion of tripazdes(?) prompted higher weigh loss than semiglutide alone. First two months at 10 and 12.5 doses didn't help or hurt, but when I did 15 it started going again, but I only did that one week before deciding to quit and see if I could avoid weight gain with carnivore. I am also curious how long I have to wait before I can re-start and get original results(if ever)?

 

[Judge Smails]

I’m starting on it to lower A1C. I have pre diabetes with the last several readings around 5.9. Huge family history (Dad died of complications, had amputations, middle brother has it, 2 toes amputated, youngest brother had crazy blood sugar levels before turning his life around, changing his diet and losing 75 pounds. Others as well. My cardiologist’s biggest concern isn’t specifically heart related (checking out great 5 years after a Widowmaker), it’s diabetes. I’ve dropped weight, modified diet to eat clean, exercised, you name it. A1C doesn’t drop. Meds haven’t helped much either. Metformin or Jardiance. So we’re trying Ozempic. Only 2 jabs so far at .25.

I have been getting after it since the first of the year. Doing a great job so far with calorie intake, mostly on limited red meat, no added sugar, no white flour, very limited alcohol. Mostly protein with few carbs other than vegetables. Peloton and gym. Dropped 11 so now 209 on a 6’1” frame. Want to get to 190 and gauge from there. Would love to see A1C get to low-mid 5’s and stay there. I’m going to do my part. Hope the med does as well.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I've heard the majority of weight loss from ozempic is muscle mass and not fat, which in return will lower your metabolism, I 'm not an expert so I don't know.

It's not the majority, but it's not an insignificant portion. These is disagreement among obesity specialists as to whether this creates problems like sarcopenia.

There are new drugs in development that purport to cause weight loss without compromising muscle mass. None of them have gotten to phase 3 studies yet, so we don't know if they will do as they claim.

That’s interesting. Mechanistically, I can’t think of any good reason why the drugs would preferentially impact muscle, in comparison to weight loss achieved via behavioral modification in the same timeframe.

That said, most non-bedridden obese individuals have adequate muscle reserves, by virtue of carrying extra body weight. Losing the weight slowly, in concert with regular exercise, and appropriate protein intake will mitigate excess muscle loss.

Sarcopenic obesity will likely become a bigger problem as our obese population ages regardless, but I’d rather risk losing some muscle to achieve a healthy body weight, than tackle the health consequences of remaining fat.

 

[cosjobs]

I’m starting on it to lower A1C. I have pre diabetes with the last several readings around 5.9. Huge family history (Dad died of complications, had amputations, middle brother has it, 2 toes amputated, youngest brother had crazy blood sugar levels before turning his life around, changing his diet and losing 75 pounds. Others as well. My cardiologist’s biggest concern isn’t specifically heart related (checking out great 5 years after a Widowmaker), it’s diabetes. I’ve dropped weight, modified diet to eat clean, exercised, you name it. A1C doesn’t drop. Meds haven’t helped much either. Metformin or Jardiance. So we’re trying Ozempic. Only 2 jabs so far at .25.

I have been getting after it since the first of the year. Doing a great job so far with calorie intake, mostly on limited red meat, no added sugar, no white flour, very limited alcohol. Mostly protein with few carbs other than vegetables. Peloton and gym. Dropped 11 so now 209 on a 6’1” frame. Want to get to 190 and gauge from there. Would love to see A1C get to low-mid 5’s and stay there. I’m going to do my part. Hope the med does as well.

good luck. I've 5.6 or so for a couple of years now. I have not seen a backslide in A1C like I did with the weightloss.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I've heard the majority of weight loss from ozempic is muscle mass and not fat, which in return will lower your metabolism, I 'm not an expert so I don't know.

It's not the majority, but it's not an insignificant portion. These is disagreement among obesity specialists as to whether this creates problems like sarcopenia.

There are new drugs in development that purport to cause weight loss without compromising muscle mass. None of them have gotten to phase 3 studies yet, so we don't know if they will do as they claim.

I don't think there will be an issue with this on the Carnivore diet.

1-1.6 gram protein per kg body weight daily, plus regular exercise will protect your muscle. Just about any diet can provide the protein, but you can’t omit the activity part of the equation.

300+ minutes of moderate intensity cardiovascular exercise, along with strength training 20-30 minutes two to three times weekly appears to be optimal.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I’m starting on it to lower A1C. I have pre diabetes with the last several readings around 5.9. Huge family history (Dad died of complications, had amputations, middle brother has it, 2 toes amputated, youngest brother had crazy blood sugar levels before turning his life around, changing his diet and losing 75 pounds. Others as well. My cardiologist’s biggest concern isn’t specifically heart related (checking out great 5 years after a Widowmaker), it’s diabetes. I’ve dropped weight, modified diet to eat clean, exercised, you name it. A1C doesn’t drop. Meds haven’t helped much either. Metformin or Jardiance. So we’re trying Ozempic. Only 2 jabs so far at .25.

I have been getting after it since the first of the year. Doing a great job so far with calorie intake, mostly on limited red meat, no added sugar, no white flour, very limited alcohol. Mostly protein with few carbs other than vegetables. Peloton and gym. Dropped 11 so now 209 on a 6’1” frame. Want to get to 190 and gauge from there. Would love to see A1C get to low-mid 5’s and stay there. I’m going to do my part. Hope the med does as well.

Vascular disease is the main problem resulting from diabetes. While he may not have said it directly, your cardiologist is trying to protect the blood vessels of the heart, along with your brain, eyes, kidneys, and limbs.

 

[Penguin]

Just eat clean, that's all it takes.

If you want to add peptides I can't argue with that.

I've heard the majority of weight loss from ozempic is muscle mass and not fat, which in return will lower your metabolism, I 'm not an expert so I don't know.

Either way, natural is always better, shortcuts always have pitfalls.

Just stop being sad, that's all it takes (depression)
Just stop drinking, that's all it takes (alcoholism)
Just stop smoking, that's all it takes (tobacco use)
Just stop doing drugs, that's all it takes (take your pick)
And on and on...

If it was that easy, then we wouldn't have an obesity epidemic. Natural is always better, sure, but natural doesn't work for everyone. This isn't a "shortcut". It's a life changing/life saving medicine for many. Same as medicine for similar conditions above (antidepressants, smoking cessation aids, etc).

The stigma attached to these things by comments and thoughts like this when people are trying to improve their lives is so unfortunate.

I get what you are aying and I'm not trying to stigmatize anyone.

Natural is always better, at least in my mind. I might not be right, but we are a a nation of short cuts which fuels big pharma.

My personal experience... I knew I was vastly over weight. I did like 3 months of extensive research before starting my journey

The first step was to get my gut biome in check. I did this by eating fermented foods, real fermented foods . No shelf store pickles, I started eating raw, live, unpasteurized pickles for Olive my Pickle. Drinking 4 ounces of brine a day. After a month, I started to eat super clean. The results were amazing, I became so sensitive to sugar and sodium. The bland taste of the food went away after 3-4 days.

End result, I went from 210 to 138 in less than a year. -72 pounds or almost 40% of my body weight. I'm at 5.5% body fat right now. This is with no increase in exercise.

And, my food spending is probably 35%-40% lower when I wasn't eating clean.

Just my personal experience.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Just eat clean, that's all it takes.

If you want to add peptides I can't argue with that.

I've heard the majority of weight loss from ozempic is muscle mass and not fat, which in return will lower your metabolism, I 'm not an expert so I don't know.

Either way, natural is always better, shortcuts always have pitfalls.

Just stop being sad, that's all it takes (depression)
Just stop drinking, that's all it takes (alcoholism)
Just stop smoking, that's all it takes (tobacco use)
Just stop doing drugs, that's all it takes (take your pick)
And on and on...

If it was that easy, then we wouldn't have an obesity epidemic. Natural is always better, sure, but natural doesn't work for everyone. This isn't a "shortcut". It's a life changing/life saving medicine for many. Same as medicine for similar conditions above (antidepressants, smoking cessation aids, etc).

The stigma attached to these things by comments and thoughts like this when people are trying to improve their lives is so unfortunate.

I get what you are aying and I'm not trying to stigmatize anyone.

Natural is always better, at least in my mind. I might not be right, but we are a a nation of short cuts which fuels big pharma.

My personal experience... I knew I was vastly over weight. I did like 3 months of extensive research before starting my journey

The first step was to get my gut biome in check. I did this by eating fermented foods, real fermented foods . No shelf store pickles, I started eating raw, live, unpasteurized pickles for Olive my Pickle. Drinking 4 ounces of brine a day. After a month, I started to eat super clean. The results were amazing, I became so sensitive to sugar and sodium. The bland taste of the food went away after 3-4 days.

End result, I went from 210 to 138 in less than a year. -72 pounds or almost 40% of my body weight. I'm at 5.5% body fat right now. This is with no increase in exercise.

And, my food spending is probably 35%-40% lower when I wasn't eating clean.

Just my personal experience.

That’s pretty impressive, particularly if you’re middle aged, like most of the FBG demographic.

While maybe it just reflects a high baseline activity level, why did you elect not to increase your exercise?

 

[Penguin]

[ATTACH=full]4809[/ATTACH]

Penguin​

Footballguy​

• 1 minute ago

• Add bookmark
• #1,391

But, I've always diet was 80% of the recipe

 

[Penguin]

Get your gut biome in check, thet's the #1 most important thing. We need to have a ratio of 80% good bacteria vs. 20% bad bacteria, if not better. Candida, (Bad Bacteria) will ruin your gut. Candida feeds on sugar and simple carbs and feeds off of that. Eat/Drink REAL fermented foods. Eat whole foods, nothing processed. Read the ingredients, discard foods with additives, preservitatides, fillers and anything else that's unnatural.

The weight will naturally fall off without any effort. You'll feel 100% better within the 1st week.

Everything stems from our gut, get your gut biome in check, that's 90% of the battle.

 

[Mitchie]

Just eat clean, that's all it takes.

If you want to add peptides I can't argue with that.

I've heard the majority of weight loss from ozempic is muscle mass and not fat, which in return will lower your metabolism, I 'm not an expert so I don't know.

Either way, natural is always better, shortcuts always have pitfalls.

Just stop being sad, that's all it takes (depression)
Just stop drinking, that's all it takes (alcoholism)
Just stop smoking, that's all it takes (tobacco use)
Just stop doing drugs, that's all it takes (take your pick)
And on and on...

If it was that easy, then we wouldn't have an obesity epidemic. Natural is always better, sure, but natural doesn't work for everyone. This isn't a "shortcut". It's a life changing/life saving medicine for many. Same as medicine for similar conditions above (antidepressants, smoking cessation aids, etc).

The stigma attached to these things by comments and thoughts like this when people are trying to improve their lives is so unfortunate.

I get what you are aying and I'm not trying to stigmatize anyone.

Natural is always better, at least in my mind. I might not be right, but we are a a nation of short cuts which fuels big pharma.

My personal experience... I knew I was vastly over weight. I did like 3 months of extensive research before starting my journey

The first step was to get my gut biome in check. I did this by eating fermented foods, real fermented foods . No shelf store pickles, I started eating raw, live, unpasteurized pickles for Olive my Pickle. Drinking 4 ounces of brine a day. After a month, I started to eat super clean. The results were amazing, I became so sensitive to sugar and sodium. The bland taste of the food went away after 3-4 days.

End result, I went from 210 to 138 in less than a year. -72 pounds or almost 40% of my body weight. I'm at 5.5% body fat right now. This is with no increase in exercise.

And, my food spending is probably 35%-40% lower when I wasn't eating clean.

Just my personal experience.

It's interesting because I very much agree with both viewpoints. Natural is better of course, eating healthy is one of those things that's simple conceptually but not easy for some people. Same thing with exercise. Seems like some people just are able to find that discipline for whatever reason and some aren't. We all have friends who have made lifestyle changes with diet and exercise that have been able to stick with it and others who haven't. Have a friend who was diagnosed as pre-diabetic and got really into working out for a bit, but after a few months couldn't stick with it and complained about finding the time, etc. So if these drugs can help folks who aren't able to get there naturally then that's the next best solution. Hopefully they make some lifestyle changes as well.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Just eat clean, that's all it takes.

If you want to add peptides I can't argue with that.

I've heard the majority of weight loss from ozempic is muscle mass and not fat, which in return will lower your metabolism, I 'm not an expert so I don't know.

Either way, natural is always better, shortcuts always have pitfalls.

Just stop being sad, that's all it takes (depression)
Just stop drinking, that's all it takes (alcoholism)
Just stop smoking, that's all it takes (tobacco use)
Just stop doing drugs, that's all it takes (take your pick)
And on and on...

If it was that easy, then we wouldn't have an obesity epidemic. Natural is always better, sure, but natural doesn't work for everyone. This isn't a "shortcut". It's a life changing/life saving medicine for many. Same as medicine for similar conditions above (antidepressants, smoking cessation aids, etc).

The stigma attached to these things by comments and thoughts like this when people are trying to improve their lives is so unfortunate.

I get what you are aying and I'm not trying to stigmatize anyone.

Natural is always better, at least in my mind. I might not be right, but we are a a nation of short cuts which fuels big pharma.

My personal experience... I knew I was vastly over weight. I did like 3 months of extensive research before starting my journey

The first step was to get my gut biome in check. I did this by eating fermented foods, real fermented foods . No shelf store pickles, I started eating raw, live, unpasteurized pickles for Olive my Pickle. Drinking 4 ounces of brine a day. After a month, I started to eat super clean. The results were amazing, I became so sensitive to sugar and sodium. The bland taste of the food went away after 3-4 days.

End result, I went from 210 to 138 in less than a year. -72 pounds or almost 40% of my body weight. I'm at 5.5% body fat right now. This is with no increase in exercise.

And, my food spending is probably 35%-40% lower when I wasn't eating clean.

Just my personal experience.

It's interesting because I very much agree with both viewpoints. Natural is better of course, eating healthy is one of those things that's simple conceptually but not easy for some people. Same thing with exercise. Seems like some people just are able to find that discipline for whatever reason and some aren't. We all have friends who have made lifestyle changes with diet and exercise that have been able to stick with it and others who haven't. Have a friend who was diagnosed as pre-diabetic and got really into working out for a bit, but after a few months couldn't stick with it and complained about finding the time, etc. So if these drugs can help folks who aren't able to get there naturally then that's the next best solution. Hopefully they make some lifestyle changes as well.

Yep. One of the reasons the medical community now characterizes obesity as a disease and not a result of a lack of willpower is that brain chemistry is a huge factor in why so many people have overweight or obesity. Both in terms of craving unhealthy foods (made worse by the easy availability and low cost of ultra-processed foods) and in terms of the body feeling "comfortable" at a certain weight and defaulting to that weight if measures to reduce it are not taken. One of the reasons the GLP-1s work is that they affect this brain chemistry, which is why they also have an effect on reducing desire for alcohol, reducing suicidal thoughts, etc.

Pretty much every doctor asks their patients to try lifestyle changes first before resorting to drugs or weight-loss surgery. The ones up on the current science know that many patients won't be able to achieve their weight-loss goals from lifestyle alone for the above reasons.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

The Lancet Diabetes & Endocrinology Commission came out with a statement last month that may redefine how we diagnose and treat obesity.

It recommends that in addition to BMI, obesity should be defined by direct measurement of body fat and/or surrogate measures such as waist circumference, waist-to-hip ratio, or waist-to-height ratio.

It also recommends that we consider clinical obesity as something different from preclinical obesity. Clinical obesity is defined as abnormalities in the function of one or more tissue or organ system or substantial limitations of daily activities reflecting the specific effect of obesity on mobility, other basic activities of daily living, or both. These people should be treated with the same urgency as anyone else with a "chronic, life-threatening illness" would. Preclinical obesity is defined as people who meet the diagnostic criteria for obesity but don't meet the definition of clinical obesity. People with clinical obesity should receive "timely, evidence-based treatment" to reverse their clinical obesity and prevent end-organ damage. In other words, you may need to go straight to GLP-1s or surgery for these people. People with preclinical obesity should receive health counseling and be monitored for prevention of progression to clinical obesity and/or conditions related to it. Interventions such as GLP-1s for these people should be considered "when appropriate" and based on a risk-benefit analysis.

And it makes a point that has come up often in this thread:

"Public health strategies to reduce the incidence and prevalence of obesity at population levels must be based on current scientific evidence, rather than unproven assumptions that blame individual responsibility for the development of obesity. Weight-based bias and stigma are major obstacles in efforts to effectively prevent and treat obesity; health-care professionals and policy makers should receive proper training to address this important issue of obesity."

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(24)00316-4/abstract

 

[Joe Bryant]

Get your gut biome in check, thet's the #1 most important thing. We need to have a ratio of 80% good bacteria vs. 20% bad bacteria, if not better. Candida, (Bad Bacteria) will ruin your gut. Candida feeds on sugar and simple carbs and feeds off of that. Eat/Drink REAL fermented foods. Eat whole foods, nothing processed. Read the ingredients, discard foods with additives, preservitatides, fillers and anything else that's unnatural.

The weight will naturally fall off without any effort. You'll feel 100% better within the 1st week.

Everything stems from our gut, get your gut biome in check, that's 90% of the battle.

Can you share some more details on the diet?

What were you eating before?

What did you eat and how much after you changed?

How many calories? Other details?

Thanks.

 

[Penguin]

Get your gut biome in check, thet's the #1 most important thing. We need to have a ratio of 80% good bacteria vs. 20% bad bacteria, if not better. Candida, (Bad Bacteria) will ruin your gut. Candida feeds on sugar and simple carbs and feeds off of that. Eat/Drink REAL fermented foods. Eat whole foods, nothing processed. Read the ingredients, discard foods with additives, preservitatides, fillers and anything else that's unnatural.

The weight will naturally fall off without any effort. You'll feel 100% better within the 1st week.

Everything stems from our gut, get your gut biome in check, that's 90% of the battle.

Can you share some more details on the diet?

What were you eating before?

What did you eat and how much after you changed?

How many calories? Other details?

Thanks.

Sorry for the late reply. After extensive research it became apparent everything starts with your gut health. You need to get the ratio of good bacteria to bad bacteria (Candida) in check 80/20 ratio at a minimum.

I started taking raw unfiltered organic apple cider vinegar with the "mother." I take a 2-3 ounce swig when I first wake up. That's supposedly the best time to take it, it jump starts your kidneys, liver, bladder and digestive systems for the day.

I next drink a n 11 ounce Muscle Milk Pro, 32 g Protein, 5 G Fiber, 1G sugar, 2G fat. That satiety's me until later in the day.

For dinner I eat a meal from a local company about 5 miles from me, "Eat Clean Bro" which is all organic, farm to table, low sodium, low sugar, high protein etc. Nice variety in their selection although I will say there's over a dozen companies like this. What I really like is there's no subscription, just order what you want when you want it and either have it delivered or pick it up. No need to pause at any time. The meals taste great and range between 480-720 calories. Usually around 40g protein.

In the evening I'll eat a raw, live, unpasteurized pickle or two for fermentation from "Olive my Pickle." The beauty of these pickle bags is when you are done with the pickles there's 8-10 oz. of pickle brine leftover which is fantastic. I'll usually drink 2-3 ounces of the brine daily. You can also buy just the brine from them but I enjoy the pickles as well.

I also take a few supplements daily. I've read and been told by many that Magnesium Glycinate (Fully cheleted) 350mg is crucial for absorption of other vitamins and minerals.

Another is Vitamin D3 (250 mcg/10,000 IU) & K2 (100mcg)

Electives I take...

1250 mg. 100% Pure Cold-Pressed Black Cumin Seed Oil

NAC 1000mg

NAD+ 5500mg

Now, do the supplements work? I don't know, I don't think anyone knows, but I can afford the few sheckles a month so what the heck.

I will say the rest of the "program" I put myself on has changed my life and that's with zero exercise. Yes, I need to ion corporate exercise into my daily regimen for sure to positively continue on this journey but I am very happy were I stand 11 months later. 210 pds to 138 pds. 14-16% body fat to 5.5%. All my blood levels are excellent.

And, there's really no effort. I got used to the lower sodium meals and less flavor in like 3 days. Now I am so sodium adverse that even small levels bother me, the same with sugars, high fructose corn syrups and other substitutes.

If anyone needs jeans, I have a boatload, most are 34" waist but the leg length is short I'm wearing 28.29's now

 

[Penguin]

Can you share some more details on the diet?

What were you eating before?

What did you eat and how much after you changed?

How many calories? Other details?

Thanks.

Sure

I ate the typical western crap diet, processed foods, fast foods etc.

Rough guess, I was probably around 3k calories, maybe someday's 2k but it was all crap for the most part. Our food is poison in the US.

For the past 11 months I am typically at around 1100 -1300 calories (Not counting alcohol) Yes, I've just started reducing my alcohol intake as well, dropped it 40% in the past 2 weeks. My goal is to be alcohol free by the end of this year. I will say, I am never hungry, these meals are so clean that many times I can not finish them even at 500 calories as real clean food is so much more satiating then a Big Mac.

 

[Penguin]

And Joe, I wouldn't say it's a diet, it's a lifestyle change. I'm 11 months in, it's my new normal and it's really not that hard. Yes, it takes a bit of discipline and restraint but that wains over time. My advice, is if you are ever tempted to stray, just read the ingredients on the label, that should set you "Sacred Straight."

 

[Terminalxylem]

Can you share some more details on the diet?

What were you eating before?

What did you eat and how much after you changed?

How many calories? Other details?

Thanks.

Sure

I ate the typical western crap diet, processed foods, fast foods etc.

Rough guess, I was probably around 3k calories, maybe someday's 2k but it was all crap for the most part. Our food is poison in the US.

For the past 11 months I am typically at around 1100 -1300 calories (Not counting alcohol) Yes, I've just started reducing my alcohol intake as well, dropped it 40% in the past 2 weeks. My goal is to be alcohol free by the end of this year. I will say, I am never hungry, these meals are so clean that many times I can not finish them even at 500 calories as real clean food is so much more satiating then a Big Mac.

I'm glad the diet has worked thus far, but how are you certain it's due to alterations in your microbiome? Have you performed pre- and post-diet fecal microbiota analysis? What are the 80% "good bacteria" you seek?

Eliminating ultra processed foods and booze, while consuming less than half one's prior caloric intake should result in major weight loss, regardless of the macronutrient composition and supplements. It's not all calories-in, calories-out, but that's doing the heavy lifting, imo.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Can you share some more details on the diet?

What were you eating before?

What did you eat and how much after you changed?

How many calories? Other details?

Thanks.

Sure

I ate the typical western crap diet, processed foods, fast foods etc.

Rough guess, I was probably around 3k calories, maybe someday's 2k but it was all crap for the most part. Our food is poison in the US.

For the past 11 months I am typically at around 1100 -1300 calories (Not counting alcohol) Yes, I've just started reducing my alcohol intake as well, dropped it 40% in the past 2 weeks. My goal is to be alcohol free by the end of this year. I will say, I am never hungry, these meals are so clean that many times I can not finish them even at 500 calories as real clean food is so much more satiating then a Big Mac.

Thank you @Penguin. That's super helpful.

I too hear tons of positive talk about "gut health". Several years ago I started each day with glass of water and 1 TBS of Bragg's Raw Apple Cider, a squeeze of lemon and a fiber powder. Tastes pretty awful. And I of course can't point to exactly that as a benefit but I feel good with it.

Makes total sense for the calorie restriction. I know there are other factors in play beyond calories in and out but I think that's a huge part of it. My best friend is a general practice MD and he feels the same.

The trouble is getting down to 1300 calories for an adult male takes discipline. That's not many calories.

Congrats on making a big change. That's awesome.