Obesity and Ozempic and more (4 Viewers)

[gruecd]

There's a big difference between "fat shaming" and promoting "big is beautiful." In the latter camp, you have Lizzo, who I despise. She has millions of loyal fans and the opportunity to be a motivator for real change, and instead she tells them all that it's OK ("beautiful") to be obese.

On the other hand, you have Jelly Roll, who's already down 50-70 pounds, just completed his first 5K, and talks very publicly about how motivated he is to continue with his weight loss journey. Says he wants to run a half marathon next.

In my opinion, losing weight is no different from quitting smoking. If you want to do it, you're going to do it. I don't buy all the excuses.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

There's probably about 25-30 pending lawsuits against these drugs.

 

[gruecd]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

Zero doubt in my mind that there will be SERIOUS side effects from this stuff. I remember another "miracle" weight-loss drug...

 

[Joe Bryant]

Zero doubt in my mind that there will be SERIOUS side effects from this stuff.

I think this is a line of discussion worth talking about.

As I said, weighing out risks vs benefits is a thing with every drug.

But why are you so certain of serious side effects with Ozempic?

 

[Joe Bryant]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

There's probably about 25-30 pending lawsuits against these drugs.

Thanks. Can you please share links?

 

[notoriousbill]

Joe, thanks for posting this.

I frequently have people ask me if I took any magic pills or injections. I lived the majority of my adult life morbidly obese (300 lbs or so. Once I got to 300, I simply stopped weighing.
Following the lockdowns, I was at my wits end and I decided to diet (yet again... been there done that so many times in my life, it was almost like a ritual). again, this was the time I wasn't going to give up. Past diets failed because I restricted myself from having what I wanted and/or I hit a plateau and gave up. This time was different, I kept telling myself. My dad had his first heart attack at 56 and I was 56 and 300+ lbs. Heart attack waiting to happen, just a matter of time....

I went to Dr and he approved me for weight loss surgery years ago but "chickened out". I asked the Dr if it was just a matter of pushing the plate away and he said yes...

Years went by and at 56 I said enough.

I started dieting and watching my macros and lost 50 lbs. Plateau #1 set in. Instead of quitting as I did in past, I added walking to my daily regimen. I walked 2 miles before work and 2 miles at lunch. Got through plateau #1 and lost another 40-50 lbs. Plateau #2 arrived. I added faster walking and slow slow jogs in intervals to my weekend walks. Took a little longer but slowly got through plateau #2. Now I had all of this energy, I started jogging 4 days/week and doing elliptical 2 days/week. Now I'm actually doing a training program where I do a Tempo run on Tuesdays (5 miles; increasing pace each mile from 1 to 5), Elliptical on Wednesday and Friday (4 miles; starting at Level 11, increasing aq level each mile), Repeats/Interval Run on Thursday (5-5.45 miles; jog 2 miles, then to 3-3.5 miles of repeats - 8 mm for 3 minutes; recover 1 minute repeat...), effort run on Saturday (6.25-8 miles; this is fluid and incorporates intervals, tempo, etc; truly an effort run - when done you are tired) and Sunday I run 5-6.5 miles (easy pace lower hear rate run). Monday is a rest day for legs but do some arm/upper body weight training. I am maintaining weight at 175 and have never felt better.

I was one of those guys that had knee pain, back pain, hip pain and often could not even get out of bed without some sort of pain....

Training my brain to incorporate this lifestyle change was the hardest but most rewarding thing I have ever accomplished. It is not easy and certainly not for everyone but it can be done. You almost need to have an OCD personality and the internal drive to make it work. I cannot explain this very well, it's just something inside you that pushes you.

If someone needs a pill or injection to help with weight, I say go for it. I just chose a different route that worked for me...

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

Why did they think the drug caused it?

My understanding is that emergency gallbladder removal is actually fairly common. Both my wife and I have had it done.

 

[beer 30]

There's a big difference between "fat shaming" and promoting "big is beautiful." In the latter camp, you have Lizzo, who I despise. She has millions of loyal fans and the opportunity to be a motivator for real change, and instead she tells them all that it's OK ("beautiful") to be obese.

On the other hand, you have Jelly Roll, who's already down 50-70 pounds, just completed his first 5K, and talks very publicly about how motivated he is to continue with his weight loss journey. Says he wants to run a half marathon next.

In my opinion, losing weight is no different from quitting smoking. If you want to do it, you're going to do it. I don't buy all the excuses.

100% Doesn't surprise me with your response knowing your commitment to fitness over the years. I've said the same thing about these drugs, there is no magic pill, you gotta put in the work to drop the lbs. I quit smoking in 2001, very good analogy.

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

Zero doubt in my mind that there will be SERIOUS side effects from this stuff. I remember another "miracle" weight-loss drug...

Just from what we are seeing now, these drugs should pulled IMO. I read an article last night about a woman in her 40's that won't be able to eat solid foods ever again because of Ozempic. Why would you risk it? I don't get it.

 

[Todem]

My understanding is that with these drugs people are eating materially less. If so, behavior is indeed changing on that front at least.

That's correct. Hari talks about how he went from eating a ton of fried chicken to one piece would fill him up. Was still eating the exact same unhealthy food. Just way less of it.

And of course, the right way is to change the type of food as well which he did.

He described it as amazing with how he could feel full eating very little. My two close friends experienced the exact same effect.

They consumed way less calories than they had been eating.

Right and that’s great to jump start the right behavioral change (you hope).

It's amazing that this thread has managed to attract a lot of posters that are in peak physical condition that haven't gained any weight since high school. All the washboard abs and sculpted physiques are intimidating to a mere mortal like myself.

I don't think I have read one post by anyone claiming that. Not at all. I can only speak for myself. I simply try to keep my weight at a normal number....I do indulge sometimes like anyone. But I also exercise and eat as healthy as I can most of the time. For 54 years old I am in decent shape. I could do more.....and I should do more.

I am not a workout freak, I don't have a six pack....more like a 2 pack lol......but I stay active and feel good. My levels are healthy. I definitely want to get more weight training in my life and plan to. I used to lift a lot in my 30's and 40's and really laid off them in my 50's here. I gotta get back at it. In high school and college....yeah I was a beast in my 20's. LOL.

If you are overweight....I hope you can change the cycle of why you are. If the drug helps you get healthier and "change your lifestyle" for the better long term that is great. I am just leery of trusting big phrama long term when it comes to "miracle" drugs. I am speaking to people who simply maybe let themselves go.

I agree the food companies are also definitely to blame in terms of ingredients. Again I believe in freewill.......I grew up drinking CocaCola. We know how bad soda is for you. But I refuse to ever drink diet drinks (which are even worse) so.....as I got older I cut out the soda 95% outta my diet and now indulge in a Coke once in a while.

Now I need to do a better job with French Fries LOL.

We have an obesity epidemic in our country....that much is certain. And I think it is a complex issue that involves bad actors (food companies), bad choices and behaviors and mental health issues as well.

The bottom line is....people who are morbidly obese need to change if they want a longer life. However that change comes....so be it. I think it's really a shame people who like myself who maybe get 10-15 pounds overweight are jumping to a needle and taking away the supply of a drug that is designed for people with serious diabetes issues and obese issues.

That needs to stop.......and the sad thing is....it won't. It's all about the money.

I really have nothing more to contribute to this thread. Good luck to those that have a battle like this.

 

[gruecd]

Zero doubt in my mind that there will be SERIOUS side effects from this stuff.

I think this is a line of discussion worth talking about.

As I said, weighing out risks vs benefits is a thing with every drug.

But why are you so certain of serious side effects with Ozempic?

In my 47+ years on this planet, it's pretty much a given that (1) anything that seems to good to be true, generally is, and (2) there's no substitute for hard work and sacrifice.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Just from what we are seeing now, these drugs should pulled IMO. I read an article last night about a woman in her 40's that won't be able to eat solid foods ever again because of Ozempic. Why would you risk it? I don't get it.

Thanks. Can you share the link to the article?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

Why did they think the drug caused it?

My understanding is that emergency gallbladder removal is actually fairly common. Both my wife and I have had it done.

I am not close enough to say with any detail. That is just what she is saying they are blaming it on. I know people that have had gallbladder surgery too, so I hear you.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Training my brain to incorporate this lifestyle change was the hardest but most rewarding thing I have ever accomplished. It is not easy and certainly not for everyone but it can be done. You almost need to have an OCD personality and the internal drive to make it work. I cannot explain this very well, it's just something inside you that pushes you.

If someone needs a pill or injection to help with weight, I say go for it. I just chose a different route that worked for me...

Fantastic post.

I want to chime in to especially agree with the part quoted above. I've never seriously had to struggle with my weight, but I was a distance runner for quite a few years, and I can attest to your point about OCD. Dragging yourself out of bed before dawn to get your miles in before work takes a certain amount of determination that goes beyond simple self-discipline. Most distance athletes who I know personally tend to be very intense people when it comes to being intentional about their actions. It's important for people like us to understand that most people are not wired that way.

It is definitely best for people to lose weight the way you lost weight. The gains that you're achieving by being physically active pay benefits aside from just weight loss. But yeah, if a person doesn't have the "voluntary OCD" gene that they can turn on and off as needed, it seems like Ozempic should be welcomed as a second-best option.

 

[gruecd]

I work in financial services. People trying to lose weight is a lot like people trying to make money. Deep down, everyone knows what it takes, but very few people want to do the work. That's why there will ALWAYS be an opportunity for scammers offering the latest and greatest "get rich/skinny quick" scheme.

 

[culdeus]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

Reminder that the same thing can happen doing keto, a juice fast, or any number of diets. This isn't unique to ozempic.

 

[notoriousbill]

Training my brain to incorporate this lifestyle change was the hardest but most rewarding thing I have ever accomplished. It is not easy and certainly not for everyone but it can be done. You almost need to have an OCD personality and the internal drive to make it work. I cannot explain this very well, it's just something inside you that pushes you.

If someone needs a pill or injection to help with weight, I say go for it. I just chose a different route that worked for me...

Fantastic post.

I want to chime in to especially agree with the part quoted above. I've never seriously had to struggle with my weight, but I was a distance runner for quite a few years, and I can attest to your point about OCD. Dragging yourself out of bed before dawn to get your miles in before work takes a certain amount of determination that goes beyond simple self-discipline. Most distance athletes who I know personally tend to be very intense people when it comes to being intentional about their actions. It's important for people like us to understand that most people are not wired that way.

It is definitely best for people to lose weight the way you lost weight. The gains that you're achieving by being physically active pay benefits aside from just weight loss. But yeah, if a person doesn't have the "voluntary OCD" gene that they can turn on and off as needed, it seems like Ozempic should be welcomed as a second-best option.

You are right about getting up before dawn. I get up (pop up) at 5:30 every weekday morning for my runs/workouts. Sleep is also a huge factor in maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Sleep is often overlooked and not taken seriously by most. I make sure I get at least 8 hrs/day of good restfull sleep.

When people ask me what my ultimate goals are. They expect me to say I am trainign for a 10k, 1/2 marathon or marathon. They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58). Longevity along with quality of life in my later years are the ultimate goals.

Thanks for your kind words!

 

[Snotbubbles]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

Zero doubt in my mind that there will be SERIOUS side effects from this stuff. I remember another "miracle" weight-loss drug...

I worked on that case.

 

[D_House]

Interesting discussion. I'll share my thoughts as a prescriber:

I prescribe the GLP-1 agonists and the lone GLP-1/GIP agonists to patients with diabetes without hesitation (and have for several years).
They have very good data with regards to cardiac risk reduction in addition to blood sugar control.
There are contraindications to use (family history of thyroid cancer, personal history of pancreatitis) and I am cautious with patients with uncontrolled GERD.
All get counseling regarding potential adverse GI effects and we always ramp up dosing over months.

The above is also true for appropriately selected patients who have obesity or BMI > 27 and a weight-related comorbidity.
Additionally, semaglutide for weight loss (Wegovy) has been FDA approved for cardiac risk reduction in patients with obesity and clinical atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease.

I generally only prescribe the weight loss-approved versions of these drugs (Wegovy, Saxenda, Zepbound) to patients who can provide me with some evidence that they have made lifestyle attempts at weight loss.
Insurance sometimes forces the patient's hand in this respect by actually requiring 3 months of receipts from a weight loss program (like Weight Watchers).
I make it clear to the patient that the indication for use is weight loss in conjunction with diet and exercise.
I go over the lack of an "off ramp" for these medicines, and that those who are able to change their lifestyle are the most likely to successfully keep weight off after stopping.

I'm firmly in the cap that the benefits attendant with weight loss outweigh any potential long term risks of use.
Notably GLP-1 agonists have been in use for >15 years without serious complications noted in our diabetic population.

The most frustrating aspect of these medications that I've dealt with are the inconsistencies in insurance coverage and the ongoing supply issues.

 

[Lehigh98]

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

When the same thing happened again in January this year, I tried semaglutide for a boost this year starting in late February and down about 15 lbs to this point. Pretty cool that it just makes you less hungry and makes you feel full faster. It isn't magic though and I'll still find myself occasionally munching on junk food / snacks in social situations or when I need to get fast meals for the kids out of habit rather than hunger. That's probably why results have been pretty consistent but not dramatic. Planning on stopping once I get around my goal weight as summer activities commence.

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

There's probably about 25-30 pending lawsuits against these drugs.

Thanks. Can you please share links?

I view the actual cases through my legal subscriptions in Bloomberg, Westlaw and Lexis.

Here is a link that gives a summary of one of the legal actions:

Ozempic Lawsuit

Our lawyers are investigating Ozempic lawsuits for patients with gastroparesis or gastrointestinal conditions, including bowel obstruction or cyclic vomiting syndrome. Ozempic is the popular ...

www.lawsuit-information-center.com

 

[beer 30]

Just from what we are seeing now, these drugs should pulled IMO. I read an article last night about a woman in her 40's that won't be able to eat solid foods ever again because of Ozempic. Why would you risk it? I don't get it.

Thanks. Can you share the link to the article?

Yea sure, it was from the Daily Mail https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13476883/woman-weight-loss-drug-bowel-injury-lawsuit.html

Everyone will pile on because it's the Daily Mail but it's legit. A little leg work gets you to the lawsuit https://www.robertkinglawfirm.com/personal-injury/mounjaro-lawsuit/

APRIL 25, 2024 – MOUNJARO LAWSUIT INITIATED WITH PLAINTIFFS’ FIRST STATEMENT OF THE CASE​

On April 9, 2024, Plaintiffs filed their first statement of the case in the Mounjaro Lawsuit. The Plaintiffs stated that tirzepatide is sold by Eli Lilly under the names Mounjaro and Zepbound. The plaintiffs’ allegation is very simple—that Eli Lilly did not warn of the risk of gastroparesis, ileus, or intestinal obstruction. The statement of the case highlights cases like Meredith Hotchkiss, who used Mounjaro and was later diagnosed with gastroparesis, a serious bowel injury. Plaintiffs also allege that users may need to use the drugs forever and that a large percentage of weight loss would be muscle.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Just from what we are seeing now, these drugs should pulled IMO. I read an article last night about a woman in her 40's that won't be able to eat solid foods ever again because of Ozempic. Why would you risk it? I don't get it.

Thanks. Can you share the link to the article?

Woman can never eat solids again after Ozempic destroyed her stomach

The litany of grim medical conditions allegedly caused by Ozempic and similar weight-loss drugs are laid bare in a landmark court case.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Sand]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

 

[beer 30]

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

Yep, I see that side too. Especially as I've gotten older. I used to be able to crush some cardio/weights and regulate my weight. Then (recently) I do the same and nada. If I took my diet seriously I'd probably drop the 20lbs I'd like to but I've always worked out so I could eat. As I approach 60, that doesn't work nearly as well anymore. I've also recently hurt my knee so being able to do any kind of cardio is gotten much tougher. Can't ride a bike, only walk so it takes XX amount more time to burn the same calories.

As we age out, one has to look at the payoff compared to the cost. Not saying your mom is close to end of life but as an overweight 80 year old I'd probably be more open to something like this if dropping weight meant a better quality of life in my twilight years. The ramifications of Ozempic are more manageable for 5-10 years than if you're 40 and can't eat solid foods ever again.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

Yep, I see that side too. Especially as I've gotten older. I used to be able to crush some cardio/weights and regulate my weight. Then (recently) I do the same and nada. If I took my diet seriously I'd probably drop the 20lbs I'd like to but I've always worked out so I could eat. As I approach 60, that doesn't work nearly as well anymore. I've also recently hurt my knee so being able to do any kind of cardio is gotten much tougher. Can't ride a bike, only walk so it takes XX amount more time to burn the same calories.

As we age out, one has to look at the payoff compared to the cost. Not saying your mom is close to end of life but as an overweight 80 year old I'd probably be more open to something like this if dropping weight meant a better quality of life in my twilight years. The ramifications of Ozempic are more manageable for 5-10 years than if you're 40 and can't eat solid foods ever again.

My MIL and step-FIL stayed with us for a couple of days over Memorial Day for the first time in a little while (since before the pandemic). They are both in their early 80s. MIL was overweight for most of her life and never active at all. She has since lost a fair amount of weight, but a lifetime of no physical activity of any kind has caught up to both of them in a big way. Neither of them is able to navigate stairs, for example. At our place, they both went up and down stairs by doing the toddler "one step at a time" approach, where you put both feet on the next stair before trying to access the step beyond that one. Neither of them can confidently walk anyplace out in public anymore, where they have to navigate around obstacles and other people and also watch their footing. It's not just that they can't do rim-to-rim at the Grand Canyon -- they can barely even get through ordinary daily life.

Frankly, it was terrifying. As soon as they left, the very first words out of my wife's mouth were "We are staying active and we are never letting that happen to us." I didn't even have to say anything. It's honestly kind of scary when you hit 50, see how your parents are doing, and realizing that that could be you in 25 years.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Just from what we are seeing now, these drugs should pulled IMO. I read an article last night about a woman in her 40's that won't be able to eat solid foods ever again because of Ozempic. Why would you risk it? I don't get it.

Thanks. Can you share the link to the article?

Woman can never eat solids again after Ozempic destroyed her stomach

The litany of grim medical conditions allegedly caused by Ozempic and similar weight-loss drugs are laid bare in a landmark court case.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Its an allegation in a class action lawsuit. The cause of her condition is far from an established fact.

 

[massraider]

Its an allegation in a class action lawsuit. The cause of her condition is far from an established fact.

Of course. But this isn't the only person

Considering how every drug commercial included 15 seconds of fast talking terrifying possible side effects, shouldn't we be ready to believe that there are side effects?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Considering how every drug commercial included 15 seconds of fast talking terrifying possible side effects, shouldn't we be ready to believe that there are side effects?

That one is an interesting question. In a vacuum, the answer is for sure yes. But the reality is NOT having those disclaimers means risking lawsuit that you didn't adequately warn people.

So they do a balance of "how many customers do we lose having the scary disclaimer" vs "how much litigation costs do we risk in not having the disclaimer".

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Its an allegation in a class action lawsuit. The cause of her condition is far from an established fact.

Of course. But this isn't the only person

Considering how every drug commercial included 15 seconds of fast talking terrifying possible side effects, shouldn't we be ready to believe that there are side effects?

Of course there is a 100% certainty of side effects. There is also a 100% certainty of lawsuits. My point is just that the Daily Mail article kind of buries the lede when it makes this headline claim then notes "lawsuit claims" at the end.

There are many lawfirms who specialize in class action pharma lawsuits and they will aggressively market anyone who has taken these drugs to sign up to participate as a class member. One of the unfortunate aspects of these lawsuits is that it can be extremely lucrative to be the lead law firm in a consolidated class action lawsuit so there is a race to the Courthouse and these damages cases are often not fully developed when filed as they might be under different circumstances. Perhaps @Snotbubbles or others can speak to this better. This is similar to securities class action lawsuits where a large merger is announced and the first lawsuits are typically filed within days or even hours.

To be clear, I think the plaintiff's class action bar serves an important role in our country in terms of product safety, drug-approval, M&A transparency and the like.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Thought this was a super interesting listen.,

Ozempic: Silver Bullet or Devil’s Bargain?

Honestly with Bari Weiss · Episode

open.spotify.com

Yes, it's Bari Weiss and I know some hate her. There is zero politics in this one. (Where she is normally political)

She interviews Johann Hari who has a new book out on Ozempic and similar drugs.

It's an interesting discussion on lots of things.

• Obesity. They claim the US has something like 40% of the population obese. Japan has something like 4%. They talk about (some pretty shocking) ways that happens.
• Dealing with the bandaid? Both Weiss and Hari have lost weight with Ozempic but they have a thoughtful discussion about it being a "band aid" and how the vanity / health balance goes. Hari has been critical of overprescribing anti depressant drugs and asks if he's being hypocritical losing weight with Ozempic.
• Importance. They talk about the potential massive effects the drugs will have. From hurting fast food restaurants to knee replacements and more.

What do you think on these?

Bari Weiss is a very credible writer and even though i might not agree with her all the time, I'm always willing to listen or read what she wants to write about
I feel she represents a decent chunk of the population that I value their opinion enough to put my "biased" info/thoughts aside to hear the message clearly

-I'm glad you started this thread
@rockaction started another Ozempic thread at least 5-6 months ago if not longer and it also has a lot of debate/back and forth in it.

I remember @IvanKaramazov asking the group why they were so angry that so many people were finding weight loss, doesn't that make them healthier than when they started?
Let me explain why this question is so good, the point so strong and yet I want to speak out AGAINST it all.
Ivan is RIGHT that lots of people experiencing weight loss and what it's like to go from a Size 20 to a size 8 in a dress, or a size 44 inch waist for a man down to a 36, it's gotta be exhilerating because I know how I felt on my journey from 300 down to about 200 and yet I didn't take too many drugs along the way.

The dark side of all this is when the body can no longer be tricked by Ozempic or other similar drugs and you start gaining all the weight back one way or the other
The only way most folks know to battle weight loss is to make "lifestyle changes" thru eating habits and exercise over a long period, that's how you win the war.
Over eating is no different than being an alcoholic, it's the truth. You eat to fill holes inside, you drink typically to fill up holes you have inside of you, mainly the heart.

Great thread JB, been wanting to launch my own on this drug, glad you took the lead and I haven't even read thru the entire thing yet.
Cheers Everyone and don't get down...it's fixable, you can do it and many of us here would love to help you
@bostonfred @Otis and many others have health threads that can make a BIG difference in your life making some SMALL changes
Step 1 is admitting you have a problem and accepting that you do have control over it...life gets much easier when you accept that you eat to numb the pain, whatever that pain is

 

[notoriousbill]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

 

[GoBirds]

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

When the same thing happened again in January this year, I tried semaglutide for a boost this year starting in late February and down about 15 lbs to this point. Pretty cool that it just makes you less hungry and makes you feel full faster. It isn't magic though and I'll still find myself occasionally munching on junk food / snacks in social situations or when I need to get fast meals for the kids out of habit rather than hunger. That's probably why results have been pretty consistent but not dramatic. Planning on stopping once I get around my goal weight as summer activities commence.

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

How have you done with side effects, and overall would you say it’s worth it and you would recommend? I’m entering that age range and could stand to lose 15-20 but don’t want to risk permanent issues or side effects that are brutal.

 

[northern exposure]

My understanding is that with these drugs people are eating materially less. If so, behavior is indeed changing on that front at least.

That's correct. Hari talks about how he went from eating a ton of fried chicken to one piece would fill him up. Was still eating the exact same unhealthy food. Just way less of it.

And of course, the right way is to change the type of food as well which he did.

He described it as amazing with how he could feel full eating very little. My two close friends experienced the exact same effect.

They consumed way less calories than they had been eating.

Right and that’s great to jump start the right behavioral change (you hope).

It's amazing that this thread has managed to attract a lot of posters that are in peak physical condition that haven't gained any weight since high school. All the washboard abs and sculpted physiques are intimidating to a mere mortal like myself.

I don't think I have read one post by anyone claiming that. Not at all. I can only speak for myself. I simply try to keep my weight at a normal number....I do indulge sometimes like anyone. But I also exercise and eat as healthy as I can most of the time. For 54 years old I am in decent shape. I could do more.....and I should do more.

I am not a workout freak, I don't have a six pack....more like a 2 pack lol......but I stay active and feel good. My levels are healthy. I definitely want to get more weight training in my life and plan to. I used to lift a lot in my 30's and 40's and really laid off them in my 50's here. I gotta get back at it. In high school and college....yeah I was a beast in my 20's. LOL.

If you are overweight....I hope you can change the cycle of why you are. If the drug helps you get healthier and "change your lifestyle" for the better long term that is great. I am just leery of trusting big phrama long term when it comes to "miracle" drugs. I am speaking to people who simply maybe let themselves go.

I agree the food companies are also definitely to blame in terms of ingredients. Again I believe in freewill.......I grew up drinking CocaCola. We know how bad soda is for you. But I refuse to ever drink diet drinks (which are even worse) so.....as I got older I cut out the soda 95% outta my diet and now indulge in a Coke once in a while.

Now I need to do a better job with French Fries LOL.

We have an obesity epidemic in our country....that much is certain. And I think it is a complex issue that involves bad actors (food companies), bad choices and behaviors and mental health issues as well.

The bottom line is....people who are morbidly obese need to change if they want a longer life. However that change comes....so be it. I think it's really a shame people who like myself who maybe get 10-15 pounds overweight are jumping to a needle and taking away the supply of a drug that is designed for people with serious diabetes issues and obese issues.

That needs to stop.......and the sad thing is....it won't. It's all about the money.

I really have nothing more to contribute to this thread. Good luck to those that have a battle like this.

I guess my use of sarcasm is lost on some people.

 

[Sand]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

If you get a chance read Outlive. It's like #3 among all books right now. Attia argues in part of that book that VO2 max is the best indicator of overall health (as defined by all causes reduction in mortality) and he backs that up with a ton of studies. His big logic gate there is that one should aim at as high a VO2 as one can achieve so one has headroom as we age to be able to do the things we want to do - VO2 naturally decreases as we get older, so the higher we maintain it the better our overall health will be. Makes all the sense in the world.

You're the first person I've seen that called out VO2 Max as a primary goal, which is pretty atypical. It's a great thing to aim for, though, for sure.

 

[Lehigh98]

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

When the same thing happened again in January this year, I tried semaglutide for a boost this year starting in late February and down about 15 lbs to this point. Pretty cool that it just makes you less hungry and makes you feel full faster. It isn't magic though and I'll still find myself occasionally munching on junk food / snacks in social situations or when I need to get fast meals for the kids out of habit rather than hunger. That's probably why results have been pretty consistent but not dramatic. Planning on stopping once I get around my goal weight as summer activities commence.

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

How have you done with side effects, and overall would you say it’s worth it and you would recommend? I’m entering that age range and could stand to lose 15-20 but don’t want to risk permanent issues or side effects that are brutal.

No side effects (that I'm aware of anyway). From my experience (which may not be typical), I don't know why anyone (in the right situation) wouldn't do it.*
*Qualifiers added

 

[gruecd]

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

When the same thing happened again in January this year, I tried semaglutide for a boost this year starting in late February and down about 15 lbs to this point. Pretty cool that it just makes you less hungry and makes you feel full faster. It isn't magic though and I'll still find myself occasionally munching on junk food / snacks in social situations or when I need to get fast meals for the kids out of habit rather than hunger. That's probably why results have been pretty consistent but not dramatic. Planning on stopping once I get around my goal weight as summer activities commence.

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

How have you done with side effects, and overall would you say it’s worth it and you would recommend? I’m entering that age range and could stand to lose 15-20 but don’t want to risk permanent issues or side effects that are brutal.

15-20 pounds isn't even that much weight that it would be super hard to lose through diet and exercise. Why would you even take a chance with injecting something into your body instead? Serious question.

 

[Joe Bryant]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

If you get a chance read Outlive. It's like #3 among all books right now. Attia argues in part of that book that VO2 max is the best indicator of overall health (as defined by all causes reduction in mortality) and he backs that up with a ton of studies. His big logic gate there is that one should aim at as high a VO2 as one can achieve so one has headroom as we age to be able to do the things we want to do - VO2 naturally decreases as we get older, so the higher we maintain it the better our overall health will be. Makes all the sense in the world.

You're the first person I've seen that called out VO2 Max as a primary goal, which is pretty atypical. It's a great thing to aim for, though, for sure.

I have the book but haven't read yet.

What's the easiest most practical way to test VO2?

 

[Doug B]

Another thing they talked about was how it's a "lifetime" drug. Hari said he stopped it for a little while and his appetite came roaring back.

Might seem weird medically ... but this makes it seem like these drugs could perhaps be taken intermittently after a goal weight (or BMI) is reached. Maybe a month on/month off -- or some other kind of intermittent schedule -- would average out, over time, to weight maintenance. Just something that popped into my head.

 

[notoriousbill]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

If you get a chance read Outlive. It's like #3 among all books right now. Attia argues in part of that book that VO2 max is the best indicator of overall health (as defined by all causes reduction in mortality) and he backs that up with a ton of studies. His big logic gate there is that one should aim at as high a VO2 as one can achieve so one has headroom as we age to be able to do the things we want to do - VO2 naturally decreases as we get older, so the higher we maintain it the better our overall health will be. Makes all the sense in the world.

You're the first person I've seen that called out VO2 Max as a primary goal, which is pretty atypical. It's a great thing to aim for, though, for sure.

Thanks for the kind words. Sometimes I get blowback from people that don't really understand what it is. I just say an indicator of cardiovascular health.

Thanks again

 

[notoriousbill]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

If you get a chance read Outlive. It's like #3 among all books right now. Attia argues in part of that book that VO2 max is the best indicator of overall health (as defined by all causes reduction in mortality) and he backs that up with a ton of studies. His big logic gate there is that one should aim at as high a VO2 as one can achieve so one has headroom as we age to be able to do the things we want to do - VO2 naturally decreases as we get older, so the higher we maintain it the better our overall health will be. Makes all the sense in the world.

You're the first person I've seen that called out VO2 Max as a primary goal, which is pretty atypical. It's a great thing to aim for, though, for sure.

I have the book but haven't read yet.

What's the easiest most practical way to test VO2?

Easiest way, though not quite as precise, is to use your watch (apple for example)) that has this calculation embedded into it. If you really want a precise number, going to the Dr and doing the treadmill test would be the thing to do. I just use my Apple watch knowing it isn't exact but testing has shown it to be close.

I will have to read the book Outlive as recommended by @Sand. I always thought Attia was the carnivore diet guy but will look into more. Rhonda Patrick is good too (her YouTube channel).

 

[pbm107]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

If you get a chance read Outlive. It's like #3 among all books right now. Attia argues in part of that book that VO2 max is the best indicator of overall health (as defined by all causes reduction in mortality) and he backs that up with a ton of studies. His big logic gate there is that one should aim at as high a VO2 as one can achieve so one has headroom as we age to be able to do the things we want to do - VO2 naturally decreases as we get older, so the higher we maintain it the better our overall health will be. Makes all the sense in the world.

You're the first person I've seen that called out VO2 Max as a primary goal, which is pretty atypical. It's a great thing to aim for, though, for sure.

I have the book but haven't read yet.

What's the easiest most practical way to test VO2?

I am not aware of an easy way to test VO2 max, they are difficult tests pushing you to your limit. The complicated way is be tested in the lab, like your friend Sahil Bloom. Racing a 5K would work for most people, and there are conversion calculators.

 

[beer 30]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

If you get a chance read Outlive. It's like #3 among all books right now. Attia argues in part of that book that VO2 max is the best indicator of overall health (as defined by all causes reduction in mortality) and he backs that up with a ton of studies. His big logic gate there is that one should aim at as high a VO2 as one can achieve so one has headroom as we age to be able to do the things we want to do - VO2 naturally decreases as we get older, so the higher we maintain it the better our overall health will be. Makes all the sense in the world.

You're the first person I've seen that called out VO2 Max as a primary goal, which is pretty atypical. It's a great thing to aim for, though, for sure.

I have the book but haven't read yet.

What's the easiest most practical way to test VO2?

I am not aware of an easy way to test VO2 max, they are difficult tests pushing you to your limit. The complicated way is be tested in the lab, like your friend Sahil Bloom. Racing a 5K would work for most people, and there are conversion calculators.

Only if you puke at the end of the 5k though. If you don't, did even really run bro?

 

[massraider]

Might seem weird medically ... but this makes it seem like these drugs could perhaps be taken intermittently after a goal weight (or BMI) is reached. Maybe a month on/month off -- or some other kind of intermittent schedule -- would average out, over time, to weight maintenance. Just something that popped into my head.

It is probably a forever drug if people wanna lose weight, and still eat foods that got them in a bad spot to begin with.

With a lot of bad food, it sends signals to your body to eat more. Sugary candy, chips, etc. That's why you can polish off a bag of chips easier than eating more than a handful of almonds.

So if you get off a drug that suppresses your appetite, and still drink Diet Coke every day, you can fall right back in the old trap.

People make the mistake of 'cutting down' on sugar. No, kick it, like heroin, and the cravings subside.

 

[Doug B]

What I have a hard time understanding is folks who say just quit eating so much, but then for some reason seem to be reflexively against the idea of a drug that helps people stop eating so much.

Exactly. I can't think of a good reason the corrected satiety feedback mechanism necessarily has to be internal.

 

[Doug B]

According to the FDA, compounded versions of these medications have not been approved.

@Terminalxylem , @gianmarco , and other MedicalGuys:

Is the context here that they're telling johnnycakes that someone's out there making "knockoff Ozempic" from precursor ingredients?

 

[Sand]

I will have to read the book Outlive as recommended by @Sand. I always thought Attia was the carnivore diet guy but will look into more. Rhonda Patrick is good too (her YouTube channel).

Attia is not the carnivore diet guy. His premise is to try and tackle the four horsemen of death (diabetes, cancer, congestive heart failure, and degenerative mental disorders) from a preventative care point of view. This includes diet, testing, and exercise. I don't agree with everything (his thoughts on reducing congestive heart failure are pretty extreme), but the last quarter of the book is references. At the very least the guy backs up what he says with significant literature (so the opposite of quack science).

VO2 is a big part of his conclusions.

 

[northern exposure]

Might seem weird medically ... but this makes it seem like these drugs could perhaps be taken intermittently after a goal weight (or BMI) is reached. Maybe a month on/month off -- or some other kind of intermittent schedule -- would average out, over time, to weight maintenance. Just something that popped into my head.

It is probably a forever drug if people wanna lose weight, and still eat foods that got them in a bad spot to begin with.

With a lot of bad food, it sends signals to your body to eat more. Sugary candy, chips, etc. That's why you can polish off a bag of chips easier than eating more than a handful of almonds.

So if you get off a drug that suppresses your appetite, and still drink Diet Coke every day, you can fall right back in the old trap.

People make the mistake of 'cutting down' on sugar. No, kick it, like heroin, and the cravings subside.

Is the heroin analogy sarcasm?
I think the most common way to kick heroin is with the use of methadone.

 

[northern exposure]

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

When the same thing happened again in January this year, I tried semaglutide for a boost this year starting in late February and down about 15 lbs to this point. Pretty cool that it just makes you less hungry and makes you feel full faster. It isn't magic though and I'll still find myself occasionally munching on junk food / snacks in social situations or when I need to get fast meals for the kids out of habit rather than hunger. That's probably why results have been pretty consistent but not dramatic. Planning on stopping once I get around my goal weight as summer activities commence.

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

How have you done with side effects, and overall would you say it’s worth it and you would recommend? I’m entering that age range and could stand to lose 15-20 but don’t want to risk permanent issues or side effects that are brutal.

15-20 pounds isn't even that much weight that it would be super hard to lose through diet and exercise. Why would you even take a chance with injecting something into your body instead? Serious question.

You didn't ask me the question and I'm not considering taking Ozempic, but from my experience losing 15-20 lbs can be damn difficult.

I watch what I eat and drink and how much I eat and drink very carefully. I also exercise 4-5 times a week. I take the stairs instead of the escalator or elevator. I park further away from the entrance to the store, mall, etc.

Still I need to lose 10-15 lbs. I'll be 60 next month and getting the weight off isn't getting easier.

So you might think losing the weight isn't "super hard", but my experience says otherwise.

 

[Sand]

According to the FDA, compounded versions of these medications have not been approved.

@Terminalxylem , @gianmarco , and other MedicalGuys:

Is the context here that they're telling johnnycakes that someone's out there making "knockoff Ozempic" from precursor ingredients?

Definitely - brightmeds.com and other places are selling this stuff.