Obesity and Ozempic and more (3 Viewers)

[Terminalxylem]

You are perhaps thinking of thalidomide, but that wasn't a weight loss drug.

Sorry, wasn't being specific for weight loss drugs. Thalidomide was a drug widely prescribed to treat nausea in pregnant women and had tragic side effects.

The balance for all drugs is always weighing out the potential side effects vs the good they can do. That's a balance and consideration regardless of what issue the drug is meant to treat.

In the time Ozempic has been prescribed, there doesn't seem to be an issue like that. But I think it's reasonable that people consider and weigh potential risks.

Sure, but since thalidomide, Fen-phen, and a few others, how many medications for blood pressure, diabetes, high cholesterol, etc., which people also take indefinitely, have been safely prescribed?

In the time drugs in Ozempic's class have been available, how many people have been disabled or died from obesity-related complications?

Not saying it doesn't warrant a risk:benefit analysis, but people tend to overestimate potential downside of the unknown, especially when it involves putting an "unnatural" substance in one's body.

 

[GoBirds]

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

When the same thing happened again in January this year, I tried semaglutide for a boost this year starting in late February and down about 15 lbs to this point. Pretty cool that it just makes you less hungry and makes you feel full faster. It isn't magic though and I'll still find myself occasionally munching on junk food / snacks in social situations or when I need to get fast meals for the kids out of habit rather than hunger. That's probably why results have been pretty consistent but not dramatic. Planning on stopping once I get around my goal weight as summer activities commence.

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

How have you done with side effects, and overall would you say it’s worth it and you would recommend? I’m entering that age range and could stand to lose 15-20 but don’t want to risk permanent issues or side effects that are brutal.

15-20 pounds isn't even that much weight that it would be super hard to lose through diet and exercise. Why would you even take a chance with injecting something into your body instead? Serious question.

Ha, try living with a pizza addiction bro!

Honestly, I haven’t seriously considered it. Just interested in learning more.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

Why did they think the drug caused it?

My understanding is that emergency gallbladder removal is actually fairly common. Both my wife and I have had it done.

It is well known that quick weight loss, and losing a high percentage (>25%) of one's body weight promotes gallbladder disease. It's an indirect consequence of the drug serving its intended purpose.

And oh yeah, obese people are more likely to have gallstones a priori, so it's not surprising people achieving rapid, massive weight loss, by any means, experience gallbladder problems.

 

[culdeus]

I know someone who was on this, lost a lot of weight, and then had to have emergency gallbladder surgery that the doctors linked to the drug.

Why did they think the drug caused it?

My understanding is that emergency gallbladder removal is actually fairly common. Both my wife and I have had it done.

I am not close enough to say with any detail. That is just what she is saying they are blaming it on. I know people that have had gallbladder surgery too, so I hear you.

You are perhaps thinking of thalidomide, but that wasn't a weight loss drug.

Sorry, wasn't being specific for weight loss drugs. Thalidomide was a drug widely prescribed to treat nausea in pregnant women and had tragic side effects.

The balance for all drugs is always weighing out the potential side effects vs the good they can do. That's a balance and consideration regardless of what issue the drug is meant to treat.

In the time Ozempic has been prescribed, there doesn't seem to be an issue like that. But I think it's reasonable that people consider and weigh potential risks.

Sure, but since thalidomide, Fen-phen, and a few others, how many medications for blood pressure, diabetes, high cholesterol, etc., which people also take indefinitely, have been safely prescribed?

In the time drugs in Ozempic's class have been available, how many people have been disabled or died from obesity-related complications?

Not saying it doesn't warrant a risk:benefit analysis, but people tend to overestimate potential downside of the unknown, especially when it involves putting an "unnatural" substance in one's body.

You can still get phen phen.

 

[Terminalxylem]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

It's a great indicator of cardiovascular fitness, arguably the best indicator.

Taken in concert with blood pressure, cholesterol, hemoglobin A1c, and body composition, you can get a better picture of overall CV health.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Another thing they talked about was how it's a "lifetime" drug. Hari said he stopped it for a little while and his appetite came roaring back.

Might seem weird medically ... but this makes it seem like these drugs could perhaps be taken intermittently after a goal weight (or BMI) is reached. Maybe a month on/month off -- or some other kind of intermittent schedule -- would average out, over time, to weight maintenance. Just something that popped into my head.

Maybe, particularly with predictable yo-yoing of seasonal weight. I know there is some data which suggests those ups and downs are worse than maintaining a steady weight, even if obese.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Just from what we are seeing now, these drugs should pulled IMO. I read an article last night about a woman in her 40's that won't be able to eat solid foods ever again because of Ozempic. Why would you risk it? I don't get it.

Thanks. Can you share the link to the article?

Woman can never eat solids again after Ozempic destroyed her stomach

The litany of grim medical conditions allegedly caused by Ozempic and similar weight-loss drugs are laid bare in a landmark court case.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Its an allegation in a class action lawsuit. The cause of her condition is far from an established fact.

Good news...you lost 75 pounds.

Bad news...you have thyroid cancer.

Ozempic® may cause serious side effects, including:

• Possible thyroid tumors, including cancer. Tell your health care provider if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, hoarseness, trouble swallowing, or shortness of breath. These may be symptoms of thyroid cancer. In studies with rodents, Ozempic® and medicines that work like Ozempic® caused thyroid tumors, including thyroid cancer. It is not known if Ozempic® will cause thyroid tumors or a type of thyroid cancer called medullary thyroid carcinoma (MTC) in people.
• Do not use Ozempic® if you or any of your family have ever had MTC, or if you have an endocrine system condition called Multiple Endocrine Neoplasia syndrome type 2 (MEN 2).

Do not use Ozempic® if:​

• you or any of your family have ever had MTC or if you have MEN 2.
• you are allergic to semaglutide or any of the ingredients in Ozempic®. See symptoms of serious allergic reaction in “What are the possible side effects of Ozempic®?”.

Before using Ozempic®, tell your health care provider if you have any other medical conditions, including if you:​

• have or have had problems with your pancreas or kidneys.
• have a history of diabetic retinopathy.
• are pregnant or breastfeeding or plan to become pregnant or breastfeed. It is not known if Ozempic® will harm your unborn baby or passes into your breast milk. You should stop using Ozempic® 2 months before you plan to become pregnant.

Tell your health care provider about all the medicines you take, including prescription and over-the-counter medicines, vitamins, herbal supplements, and other medicines to treat diabetes, including insulin or sulfonylureas.

What are the possible side effects of Ozempic®?​

Ozempic® may cause serious side effects, including:

• inflammation of your pancreas (pancreatitis). Stop using Ozempic® and call your health care provider right away if you have severe pain in your stomach area (abdomen) that will not go away, with or without vomiting. You may feel the pain from your abdomen to your back.
• changes in vision. Tell your health care provider if you have changes in vision during treatment with Ozempic®.
• low blood sugar (hypoglycemia). Your risk for getting low blood sugar may be higher if you use Ozempic® with another medicine that can cause low blood sugar, such as a sulfonylurea or insulin. Signs and symptoms of low blood sugar may include: dizziness or lightheadedness, blurred vision, anxiety, irritability or mood changes, sweating, slurred speech, hunger, confusion or drowsiness, shakiness, weakness, headache, fast heartbeat, and feeling jittery.
• kidney problems (kidney failure). In people who have kidney problems, diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting may cause a loss of fluids (dehydration), which may cause kidney problems to get worse. It is important for you to drink fluids to help reduce your chance of dehydration.
• serious allergic reactions. Stop using Ozempic® and get medical help right away if you have any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat; problems breathing or swallowing; severe rash or itching; fainting or feeling dizzy; or very rapid heartbeat.
• gallbladder problems. Gallbladder problems have happened in some people who take Ozempic®. Tell your health care provider right away if you get symptoms which may include: pain in your upper stomach (abdomen), fever, yellowing of the skin or eyes (jaundice), or clay-colored stools.

The most common side effects of Ozempic® may include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach (abdominal) pain, and constipation.

 

[Terminalxylem]

According to the FDA, compounded versions of these medications have not been approved.

@Terminalxylem , @gianmarco , and other MedicalGuys:

Is the context here that they're telling johnnycakes that someone's out there making "knockoff Ozempic" from precursor ingredients?

More or less. Personally, not a fan of poorly regulated clinics doing stuff like this, as their financial opportunism sometimes interferes with ethical concerns.

On the other hand, pharmaceutical companies sometimes create untenable pricing for equally unethical reasons.

 

[culdeus]

Just from what we are seeing now, these drugs should pulled IMO. I read an article last night about a woman in her 40's that won't be able to eat solid foods ever again because of Ozempic. Why would you risk it? I don't get it.

Thanks. Can you share the link to the article?

Woman can never eat solids again after Ozempic destroyed her stomach

The litany of grim medical conditions allegedly caused by Ozempic and similar weight-loss drugs are laid bare in a landmark court case.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Its an allegation in a class action lawsuit. The cause of her condition is far from an established fact.

Good news...you lost 75 pounds.

Bad news...you have thyroid cancer.

Ozempic® may cause serious side effects, including:

• Possible thyroid tumors, including cancer. Tell your health care provider if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, hoarseness, trouble swallowing, or shortness of breath. These may be symptoms of thyroid cancer. In studies with rodents, Ozempic® and medicines that work like Ozempic® caused thyroid tumors, including thyroid cancer. It is not known if Ozempic® will cause thyroid tumors or a type of thyroid cancer called medullary thyroid carcinoma (MTC) in people.
• Do not use Ozempic® if you or any of your family have ever had MTC, or if you have an endocrine system condition called Multiple Endocrine Neoplasia syndrome type 2 (MEN 2).

Do not use Ozempic® if:​

• you or any of your family have ever had MTC or if you have MEN 2.
• you are allergic to semaglutide or any of the ingredients in Ozempic®. See symptoms of serious allergic reaction in “What are the possible side effects of Ozempic®?”.

Before using Ozempic®, tell your health care provider if you have any other medical conditions, including if you:​

• have or have had problems with your pancreas or kidneys.
• have a history of diabetic retinopathy.
• are pregnant or breastfeeding or plan to become pregnant or breastfeed. It is not known if Ozempic® will harm your unborn baby or passes into your breast milk. You should stop using Ozempic® 2 months before you plan to become pregnant.

Tell your health care provider about all the medicines you take, including prescription and over-the-counter medicines, vitamins, herbal supplements, and other medicines to treat diabetes, including insulin or sulfonylureas.

What are the possible side effects of Ozempic®?​

Ozempic® may cause serious side effects, including:

• inflammation of your pancreas (pancreatitis). Stop using Ozempic® and call your health care provider right away if you have severe pain in your stomach area (abdomen) that will not go away, with or without vomiting. You may feel the pain from your abdomen to your back.
• changes in vision. Tell your health care provider if you have changes in vision during treatment with Ozempic®.
• low blood sugar (hypoglycemia). Your risk for getting low blood sugar may be higher if you use Ozempic® with another medicine that can cause low blood sugar, such as a sulfonylurea or insulin. Signs and symptoms of low blood sugar may include: dizziness or lightheadedness, blurred vision, anxiety, irritability or mood changes, sweating, slurred speech, hunger, confusion or drowsiness, shakiness, weakness, headache, fast heartbeat, and feeling jittery.
• kidney problems (kidney failure). In people who have kidney problems, diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting may cause a loss of fluids (dehydration), which may cause kidney problems to get worse. It is important for you to drink fluids to help reduce your chance of dehydration.
• serious allergic reactions. Stop using Ozempic® and get medical help right away if you have any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat; problems breathing or swallowing; severe rash or itching; fainting or feeling dizzy; or very rapid heartbeat.
• gallbladder problems. Gallbladder problems have happened in some people who take Ozempic®. Tell your health care provider right away if you get symptoms which may include: pain in your upper stomach (abdomen), fever, yellowing of the skin or eyes (jaundice), or clay-colored stools.

The most common side effects of Ozempic® may include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach (abdominal) pain, and constipation.

Now do this for common statins and report back.

 

[Terminalxylem]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

If you get a chance read Outlive. It's like #3 among all books right now. Attia argues in part of that book that VO2 max is the best indicator of overall health (as defined by all causes reduction in mortality) and he backs that up with a ton of studies. His big logic gate there is that one should aim at as high a VO2 as one can achieve so one has headroom as we age to be able to do the things we want to do - VO2 naturally decreases as we get older, so the higher we maintain it the better our overall health will be. Makes all the sense in the world.

You're the first person I've seen that called out VO2 Max as a primary goal, which is pretty atypical. It's a great thing to aim for, though, for sure.

I have the book but haven't read yet.

What's the easiest most practical way to test VO2?

Easiest way, though not quite as precise, is to use your watch (apple for example)) that has this calculation embedded into it. If you really want a precise number, going to the Dr and doing the treadmill test would be the thing to do. I just use my Apple watch knowing it isn't exact but testing has shown it to be close.

I will have to read the book Outlive as recommended by @Sand. I always thought Attia was the carnivore diet guy but will look into more. Rhonda Patrick is good too (her YouTube channel).

The book is really good, though he kinda dismisses the entirety of nutrition science, and promotes waaaay too much testing imo.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Good news...you lost 75 pounds.

Bad news...you have thyroid cancer.

That's a pretty unfair way of framing it.

LOTS of people are losing 75 pounds with this.

From the podcast, Hari talked about thyroid cancer as the #1 worry. He said in the studies they found, Ozempic increased the chance of Thyroid cancer by 50%. Which is of course a lot. But it also means if you had a 1% chance of getting thyroid cancer, you now have a 1.5% chance.

Still a lot of unknown of course.

 

[Joe Bryant]

And the other side of the equation of course is how much positive you receive from losing 75 pounds.

It seems reasonable one might trade their risk of thyroid cancer going from 1% to 1.5% in exchange for the health benefits from losing 75 pounds.

 

[massraider]

Is the heroin analogy sarcasm?

No.

I think the most common way to kick heroin is with the use of methadone

Not forever.

 

[Doug B]

Another thing they talked about was how it's a "lifetime" drug. Hari said he stopped it for a little while and his appetite came roaring back.

Might seem weird medically ... but this makes it seem like these drugs could perhaps be taken intermittently after a goal weight (or BMI) is reached. Maybe a month on/month off -- or some other kind of intermittent schedule -- would average out, over time, to weight maintenance. Just something that popped into my head.

Maybe, particularly with predictable yo-yoing of seasonal weight. I know there is some data which suggests those ups and downs are worse than maintaining a steady weight, even if obese.

Depends on the degree of ups-and-downs, no?

Losing 50 lbs / Gaining 50 lbs over and over -- bad for you

Losing 10 lbs / Gaining 10 lbs over and over -- ???

I wasn't thinking of long stretches off Ozempic sufficient to gain all the weight back. I was thinking intermittent dosing of some kind (cf. time-release medications?) could reduce the side effects of every-day dosing without risking the body putting back on too much weight during the off periods.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

If you get a chance read Outlive. It's like #3 among all books right now. Attia argues in part of that book that VO2 max is the best indicator of overall health (as defined by all causes reduction in mortality) and he backs that up with a ton of studies. His big logic gate there is that one should aim at as high a VO2 as one can achieve so one has headroom as we age to be able to do the things we want to do - VO2 naturally decreases as we get older, so the higher we maintain it the better our overall health will be. Makes all the sense in the world.

You're the first person I've seen that called out VO2 Max as a primary goal, which is pretty atypical. It's a great thing to aim for, though, for sure.

I have the book but haven't read yet.

What's the easiest most practical way to test VO2?

Easiest way, though not quite as precise, is to use your watch (apple for example)) that has this calculation embedded into it. If you really want a precise number, going to the Dr and doing the treadmill test would be the thing to do. I just use my Apple watch knowing it isn't exact but testing has shown it to be close.

I will have to read the book Outlive as recommended by @Sand. I always thought Attia was the carnivore diet guy but will look into more. Rhonda Patrick is good too (her YouTube channel).

How do I do this on my Apple Watch? My gym does it withe mask and treadmill and what not. But I don’t feel like giving them $250 or whatever they’re charging.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It looks like Oura is rolling out VO2 testing on the rings now too.

 

[Sand]

It's a great indicator of cardiovascular fitness, arguably the best indicator.

Taken in concert with blood pressure, cholesterol, hemoglobin A1c, and body composition, you can get a better picture of overall CV health.

Attia found/reported that VO2 max had the best correlation (in this case inverse correlation) with all causes mortality. So, if memory serves, he indicated it's both a measure of health and fitness.

The book is really good, though he kinda dismisses the entirety of nutrition science, and promotes waaaay too much testing imo.

I found his statin take to dramatically lower A1C to be unrealistic (aiming for an A1C of a 1 month old). That and the hyper testing for cancer. Otherwise I found the book to be excellent and there was a lot in there to chew on.

 

[northern exposure]

Good news...you lost 75 pounds.

Bad news...you have thyroid cancer.

That's a pretty unfair way of framing it.

LOTS of people are losing 75 pounds with this.

From the podcast, Hari talked about thyroid cancer as the #1 worry. He said in the studies they found, Ozempic increased the chance of Thyroid cancer by 50%. Which is of course a lot. But it also means if you had a 1% chance of getting thyroid cancer, you now have a 1.5% chance.

Still a lot of unknown of course.

But how can you be sure what your chance of getting thyroid cancer is? Can you do genetic testing or something? You went to the one extreme, but if your chance was 10% before Ozempic would you risk using the drug and having the chance increase to 15%?

 

[DA RAIDERS]

It looks like Oura is rolling out VO2 testing on the rings now too.

Lance Armstrong has been schilling these for a long time. Anyone have one?

 

[Sand]

It looks like Oura is rolling out VO2 testing on the rings now too.

Lance Armstrong has been schilling these for a long time. Anyone have one?

I'm waiting for the Oura/EPO combo pack.

 

[Joe Bryant]

But how can you be sure what your chance of getting thyroid cancer is? Can you do genetic testing or something? You went to the one extreme, but if your chance was 10% before Ozempic would you risk using the drug and having the chance increase to 15%?

It would be interesting to get more details on the study Hari cited in the podcast on this. I don't know exactly the methodology.

But yes, it becomes a thing of what are you willing to trade.

One point he made was how surprised he was at just how terrible diabetes can be. He said he sort of thought it was "We're in a modern country with good health care - we can manage this". When he said the more he got into it, the negatives of diabetes are much worse than he'd originally thought and he was more determined than ever to do all he could not to get it.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Just from what we are seeing now, these drugs should pulled IMO. I read an article last night about a woman in her 40's that won't be able to eat solid foods ever again because of Ozempic. Why would you risk it? I don't get it.

Thanks. Can you share the link to the article?

Woman can never eat solids again after Ozempic destroyed her stomach

The litany of grim medical conditions allegedly caused by Ozempic and similar weight-loss drugs are laid bare in a landmark court case.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Its an allegation in a class action lawsuit. The cause of her condition is far from an established fact.

Good news...you lost 75 pounds.

Bad news...you have thyroid cancer.

Ozempic® may cause serious side effects, including:

• Possible thyroid tumors, including cancer. Tell your health care provider if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, hoarseness, trouble swallowing, or shortness of breath. These may be symptoms of thyroid cancer. In studies with rodents, Ozempic® and medicines that work like Ozempic® caused thyroid tumors, including thyroid cancer. It is not known if Ozempic® will cause thyroid tumors or a type of thyroid cancer called medullary thyroid carcinoma (MTC) in people.
• Do not use Ozempic® if you or any of your family have ever had MTC, or if you have an endocrine system condition called Multiple Endocrine Neoplasia syndrome type 2 (MEN 2).

Do not use Ozempic® if:​

• you or any of your family have ever had MTC or if you have MEN 2.
• you are allergic to semaglutide or any of the ingredients in Ozempic®. See symptoms of serious allergic reaction in “What are the possible side effects of Ozempic®?”.

Before using Ozempic®, tell your health care provider if you have any other medical conditions, including if you:​

• have or have had problems with your pancreas or kidneys.
• have a history of diabetic retinopathy.
• are pregnant or breastfeeding or plan to become pregnant or breastfeed. It is not known if Ozempic® will harm your unborn baby or passes into your breast milk. You should stop using Ozempic® 2 months before you plan to become pregnant.

Tell your health care provider about all the medicines you take, including prescription and over-the-counter medicines, vitamins, herbal supplements, and other medicines to treat diabetes, including insulin or sulfonylureas.

What are the possible side effects of Ozempic®?​

Ozempic® may cause serious side effects, including:

• inflammation of your pancreas (pancreatitis). Stop using Ozempic® and call your health care provider right away if you have severe pain in your stomach area (abdomen) that will not go away, with or without vomiting. You may feel the pain from your abdomen to your back.
• changes in vision. Tell your health care provider if you have changes in vision during treatment with Ozempic®.
• low blood sugar (hypoglycemia). Your risk for getting low blood sugar may be higher if you use Ozempic® with another medicine that can cause low blood sugar, such as a sulfonylurea or insulin. Signs and symptoms of low blood sugar may include: dizziness or lightheadedness, blurred vision, anxiety, irritability or mood changes, sweating, slurred speech, hunger, confusion or drowsiness, shakiness, weakness, headache, fast heartbeat, and feeling jittery.
• kidney problems (kidney failure). In people who have kidney problems, diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting may cause a loss of fluids (dehydration), which may cause kidney problems to get worse. It is important for you to drink fluids to help reduce your chance of dehydration.
• serious allergic reactions. Stop using Ozempic® and get medical help right away if you have any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat; problems breathing or swallowing; severe rash or itching; fainting or feeling dizzy; or very rapid heartbeat.
• gallbladder problems. Gallbladder problems have happened in some people who take Ozempic®. Tell your health care provider right away if you get symptoms which may include: pain in your upper stomach (abdomen), fever, yellowing of the skin or eyes (jaundice), or clay-colored stools.

The most common side effects of Ozempic® may include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach (abdominal) pain, and constipation.

I don't get the point of your response. The claim is that "a woman in her 40's won't be able to eat solid foods ever again because of Ozempic." My point is that this is just an allegation in a lawsuit. Its nothing more than a fart in the wind.

 

[bigbottom]

Just from what we are seeing now, these drugs should pulled IMO. I read an article last night about a woman in her 40's that won't be able to eat solid foods ever again because of Ozempic. Why would you risk it? I don't get it.

Thanks. Can you share the link to the article?

Woman can never eat solids again after Ozempic destroyed her stomach

The litany of grim medical conditions allegedly caused by Ozempic and similar weight-loss drugs are laid bare in a landmark court case.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Its an allegation in a class action lawsuit. The cause of her condition is far from an established fact.

Good news...you lost 75 pounds.

Bad news...you have thyroid cancer.

What are the indications for increased risk of various cancers when you are 75 pounds heavier than you should be?

 

[culdeus]

I mean 10 years ago metformin was thought to be something literally everyone should take for longevity. It's not at all the same class of drug, but has the potential for sustained weight loss by several of the same mechanisms. It's also basically free. A lot of people wanting to try oz should try metformin first IMO. (not a dr.)

 

[Lehigh98]

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

When the same thing happened again in January this year, I tried semaglutide for a boost this year starting in late February and down about 15 lbs to this point. Pretty cool that it just makes you less hungry and makes you feel full faster. It isn't magic though and I'll still find myself occasionally munching on junk food / snacks in social situations or when I need to get fast meals for the kids out of habit rather than hunger. That's probably why results have been pretty consistent but not dramatic. Planning on stopping once I get around my goal weight as summer activities commence.

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

How have you done with side effects, and overall would you say it’s worth it and you would recommend? I’m entering that age range and could stand to lose 15-20 but don’t want to risk permanent issues or side effects that are brutal.

15-20 pounds isn't even that much weight that it would be super hard to lose through diet and exercise. Why would you even take a chance with injecting something into your body instead? Serious question.

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Another thing they talked about was how it's a "lifetime" drug. Hari said he stopped it for a little while and his appetite came roaring back.

Might seem weird medically ... but this makes it seem like these drugs could perhaps be taken intermittently after a goal weight (or BMI) is reached. Maybe a month on/month off -- or some other kind of intermittent schedule -- would average out, over time, to weight maintenance. Just something that popped into my head.

Maybe, particularly with predictable yo-yoing of seasonal weight. I know there is some data which suggests those ups and downs are worse than maintaining a steady weight, even if obese.

Depends on the degree of ups-and-downs, no?

Losing 50 lbs / Gaining 50 lbs over and over -- bad for you

Losing 10 lbs / Gaining 10 lbs over and over -- ???

I wasn't thinking of long stretches off Ozempic sufficient to gain all the weight back. I was thinking intermittent dosing of some kind (cf. time-release medications?) could reduce the side effects of every-day dosing without risking the body putting back on too much weight during the off periods.

Don’t know, but intuitively could attenuate some potential AEs associated with overly rapid weight loss, like gallbladder problems.

 

[Terminalxylem]

It's a great indicator of cardiovascular fitness, arguably the best indicator.

Taken in concert with blood pressure, cholesterol, hemoglobin A1c, and body composition, you can get a better picture of overall CV health.

Attia found/reported that VO2 max had the best correlation (in this case inverse correlation) with all causes mortality. So, if memory serves, he indicated it's both a measure of health and fitness.

The book is really good, though he kinda dismisses the entirety of nutrition science, and promotes waaaay too much testing imo.

I found his statin take to dramatically lower A1C to be unrealistic (aiming for an A1C of a 1 month old). That and the hyper testing for cancer. Otherwise I found the book to be excellent and there was a lot in there to chew on.

Yes, vO2 max is a great predictor of all cause mortality. But there’s enough genetic risk for CV disease, I wouldn’t use it as a surrogate for overall cardiovascular health, especially in younger people. Importantly, the vO2 max study he cited looked at people referred for cardiac stress testing, so it may not be applicable to the general population.

And I think you’re confusing cholesterol (what statins lower) and hemoglobin A1c (measure of glycemic control). But yeah, Attia is hyper- aggressive wrt lowering both.

Agree he advocates excessive cancer screening, but that probably goes over fine with the worried well he sees in his longevity medicine clinic.

 

[MAC_32]

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

When the same thing happened again in January this year, I tried semaglutide for a boost this year starting in late February and down about 15 lbs to this point. Pretty cool that it just makes you less hungry and makes you feel full faster. It isn't magic though and I'll still find myself occasionally munching on junk food / snacks in social situations or when I need to get fast meals for the kids out of habit rather than hunger. That's probably why results have been pretty consistent but not dramatic. Planning on stopping once I get around my goal weight as summer activities commence.

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

How have you done with side effects, and overall would you say it’s worth it and you would recommend? I’m entering that age range and could stand to lose 15-20 but don’t want to risk permanent issues or side effects that are brutal.

15-20 pounds isn't even that much weight that it would be super hard to lose through diet and exercise. Why would you even take a chance with injecting something into your body instead? Serious question.

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

Relating with this pretty hard right now. Been on an injury roller coaster since an accident aged 37 and my body has become increasingly temperamental since turning 40 about 18 months ago. I probably didn't put on ~15 lbs every holiday season, but closer to 10 than 0.

Due to those injuries I didn't lose the ~10 lbs I usually do in 2023, I added 10 more this year, and am in the process of not losing them again. I'm spending the next 2 months re-implementing healthy habits around vacations then hoping I maintain discipline and better health once on the other side. Only thinking about gummies once they're legally available for distribution in a few months for now in hopes that helps with the injuries, but if not I won't rule out going to the next step. Father time is undefeated though.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Just from what we are seeing now, these drugs should pulled IMO. I read an article last night about a woman in her 40's that won't be able to eat solid foods ever again because of Ozempic. Why would you risk it? I don't get it.

Thanks. Can you share the link to the article?

Woman can never eat solids again after Ozempic destroyed her stomach

The litany of grim medical conditions allegedly caused by Ozempic and similar weight-loss drugs are laid bare in a landmark court case.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Its an allegation in a class action lawsuit. The cause of her condition is far from an established fact.

Good news...you lost 75 pounds.

Bad news...you have thyroid cancer.

What are the indications for increased risk of various cancers when you are 75 pounds heavier than you should be?

Obesity increases the risk for 13 different types of cancer, including cancer of the thyroid by 30%. About 4-8% of all cancers are attributed to obesity.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I mean 10 years ago metformin was thought to be something literally everyone should take for longevity. It's not at all the same class of drug, but has the potential for sustained weight loss by several of the same mechanisms. It's also basically free. A lot of people wanting to try oz should try metformin first IMO. (not a dr.)

Completely different mechanism, and degree of expected weight loss. On metformin, people lose ~5 pounds on average, while Zepbound people lose about 20% of their body weight, which is comparable to bariatric surgery long term.

But you’re right about interest in metformin as a longevity promoting agent. There’s a big study trying to get funded, where non-diabetics will receive the drug over several years, and markers of aging will be assessed. The goal is to get aging as an indication for prescribing metformin.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

When the same thing happened again in January this year, I tried semaglutide for a boost this year starting in late February and down about 15 lbs to this point. Pretty cool that it just makes you less hungry and makes you feel full faster. It isn't magic though and I'll still find myself occasionally munching on junk food / snacks in social situations or when I need to get fast meals for the kids out of habit rather than hunger. That's probably why results have been pretty consistent but not dramatic. Planning on stopping once I get around my goal weight as summer activities commence.

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

How have you done with side effects, and overall would you say it’s worth it and you would recommend? I’m entering that age range and could stand to lose 15-20 but don’t want to risk permanent issues or side effects that are brutal.

15-20 pounds isn't even that much weight that it would be super hard to lose through diet and exercise. Why would you even take a chance with injecting something into your body instead? Serious question.

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

Relating with this pretty hard right now. Been on an injury roller coaster since an accident aged 37 and my body has become increasingly temperamental since turning 40 about 18 months ago. I probably didn't put on ~15 lbs every holiday season, but closer to 10 than 0.

Due to those injuries I didn't lose the ~10 lbs I usually do in 2023, I added 10 more this year, and am in the process of not losing them again. I'm spending the next 2 months re-implementing healthy habits around vacations then hoping I maintain discipline and better health once on the other side. Only thinking about gummies once they're legally available for distribution in a few months for now in hopes that helps with the injuries, but if not I won't rule out going to the next step. Father time is undefeated though.

Slow and steady. It’s hard to quiet the stupid 25 year old inside of us. I would always injure myself when I ramped up my “return to working out”. I finally had to hire an expensive trainer and join the beugiest gym possible so as to not hurt myself. It worked. Expensive, but it worked. Try doing this stuff at 55.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

When the same thing happened again in January this year, I tried semaglutide for a boost this year starting in late February and down about 15 lbs to this point. Pretty cool that it just makes you less hungry and makes you feel full faster. It isn't magic though and I'll still find myself occasionally munching on junk food / snacks in social situations or when I need to get fast meals for the kids out of habit rather than hunger. That's probably why results have been pretty consistent but not dramatic. Planning on stopping once I get around my goal weight as summer activities commence.

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

How have you done with side effects, and overall would you say it’s worth it and you would recommend? I’m entering that age range and could stand to lose 15-20 but don’t want to risk permanent issues or side effects that are brutal.

15-20 pounds isn't even that much weight that it would be super hard to lose through diet and exercise. Why would you even take a chance with injecting something into your body instead? Serious question.

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

Relating with this pretty hard right now. Been on an injury roller coaster since an accident aged 37 and my body has become increasingly temperamental since turning 40 about 18 months ago. I probably didn't put on ~15 lbs every holiday season, but closer to 10 than 0.

Due to those injuries I didn't lose the ~10 lbs I usually do in 2023, I added 10 more this year, and am in the process of not losing them again. I'm spending the next 2 months re-implementing healthy habits around vacations then hoping I maintain discipline and better health once on the other side. Only thinking about gummies once they're legally available for distribution in a few months for now in hopes that helps with the injuries, but if not I won't rule out going to the next step. Father time is undefeated though.

Slow and steady. It’s hard to quiet the stupid 25 year old inside of us. I would always injure myself when I ramped up my “return to working out”. I finally had to hire an expensive trainer and join the beugiest gym possible so as to not hurt myself. It worked. Expensive, but it worked. Try doing this stuff at 55.

Agree. Just need to swallow your pride/ego and slowwly ease back to health.

Which reminds me, how’s the knee?

 

[steelerfan1]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

I believe you’re thinking of Paul saladino. Was/is a big carnivore guy, but now he’s added fruit, honey, raw milk to the mix. I don’t necessarily agree with him, but he lives out what he preaches.

 

[brun]

It looks like Oura is rolling out VO2 testing on the rings now too.

Lance Armstrong has been schilling these for a long time. Anyone have one?

It looks like Oura is rolling out VO2 testing on the rings now too.

Lance Armstrong has been schilling these for a long time. Anyone have one?

I don't have an Oura so I can't comment on that specifically. I do have a Ringconn. I bought it based on reviews comparing the top options as it compared favorably (Oura is top dog), but had better battery life and no subscription fee.

In general these are considered more accurate than the watches. They offer more metrics than I usually pay attention to as, I'm typically just looking at my HR, Sp02, Stress levels, and Step Count.

Considering what they are, they're not that bulky but they do have bulk and you will probably feel it in an enthusiastic handshake or similar squeeze.

I don't have terribly big hands yet I wear the largest ring they offered. Ringconn will provide a fit kit before you order your actual ring. I imagine all the other brands do too.

After about 6 months I still wear mine every day but I don't look the metrics as often.

Since receiving mine there have have been a handful of updates issued for the app. I'm sure all of them are doing this. If Oura starts offering a V02 feature, other brands will probably do the same too.

 

[Terminalxylem]

But how can you be sure what your chance of getting thyroid cancer is? Can you do genetic testing or something? You went to the one extreme, but if your chance was 10% before Ozempic would you risk using the drug and having the chance increase to 15%?

It would be interesting to get more details on the study Hari cited in the podcast on this. I don't know exactly the methodology.

But yes, it becomes a thing of what are you willing to trade.

One point he made was how surprised he was at just how terrible diabetes can be. He said he sort of thought it was "We're in a modern country with good health care - we can manage this". When he said the more he got into it, the negatives of diabetes are much worse than he'd originally thought and he was more determined than ever to do all he could not to get it.

This is the study

RESULTS
A total of 2,562 case subjects with thyroid cancers were included in the study and matched with 45,184 control subjects. Use of GLP-1 RA for 1–3 years was associated with increased risk of all thyroid cancer (adjusted hazard ratio

---

1.58, 95% CI 1.27–1.95) and medullary thyroid cancer (adjusted HR 1.78, 95% CI 1.04–3.05).

CONCLUSIONS
In the current study we found increased risk of all thyroid cancer and medullary thyroid cancer with use of GLP-1 RA, in particular after 1–3 years of treatment.

---

Importantly, meta analyses of multiple studies have not confirmed this risk. As far as I can tell, the above study is an outlier, and its case-control design is considered inferior to randomized controlled trials included in meta analyses like this.

In Table 4, the evaluation of study outcomes and thyroid cancer incidence provided insight into the safety profile of semaglutide. Across the 10 studies, thyroid cancer incidence was notably low, with a few isolated cases of papillary thyroid cancer and medullary thyroid cancer reported, each constituting less than 1% within the respective study groups [23,25,30,32], suggesting no significant risk for thyroid cancer associated with semaglutide use when considering the large sample sizes.

This study also mentions the French data, and issues with thyroid cancer in obese individuals.

Bezin et al.’s study [52] on the risk of thyroid cancer associated with GLP-1 receptor agonists diverges from our findings regarding semaglutide, suggesting a potential increased risk for thyroid cancer. Involving 2562 patients diagnosed with thyroid cancer and matched with 45,184 control subjects, this extensive research utilized the French national healthcare insurance system database, focusing on T2DM patients treated with second-line antidiabetes drugs from 2006 to 2018. Notably, the study found that the use of GLP-1 RAs for a duration of 1–3 years was associated with a heightened risk of all thyroid cancers, presenting an adjusted hazard ratio of 1.58 (95% CI 1.27–1.95) and an adjusted HR of 1.78 (95% CI 1.04–3.05), specifically for medullary thyroid cancer. These findings stand in contrast to prior data, showing no significant risk of thyroid cancer with semaglutide use, suggesting that differences in study design, population, and possibly the formulations of GLP-1 RAs used could contribute to these varying outcomes.

In light of the concern surrounding the implications of GLP-1RAs on thyroid health, existing studies found an important association when involving obese patients. Schmid et al. [53] uncovered that obesity is linked to a significantly higher risk of thyroid cancer, with overweight individuals facing a 25% increased risk and obese individuals a 55% increased risk compared to their normal-weight counterparts. Additionally, for every 5-unit increase in BMI, the risk of thyroid cancer escalates by 30%. Conversely, Hu et al.’s investigation into GLP-1RAs presented a nuanced picture, indicating an association between GLP-1RA use and an increased risk of general thyroid disorders (RR 1.28, 95% CI 1.03–1.60), but not specifically thyroid cancer (RR 1.30, 95% CI 0.86–1.97) [54]. These findings underscore the complexity of the relationship between obesity, GLP-1RA use, and thyroid health, highlighting the need for careful consideration of obesity as a factor in thyroid cancer risk assessment in the context of GLP-1RA treatment.

The tl;dr is: thyroid cancer in pretty rare, but it hasn’t been convincingly proven rates dramatically increase with drugs like Ozempic, if at all. Moreover, obese people have higher risk of thyroid cancer a priori.

 

[notoriousbill]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

If you get a chance read Outlive. It's like #3 among all books right now. Attia argues in part of that book that VO2 max is the best indicator of overall health (as defined by all causes reduction in mortality) and he backs that up with a ton of studies. His big logic gate there is that one should aim at as high a VO2 as one can achieve so one has headroom as we age to be able to do the things we want to do - VO2 naturally decreases as we get older, so the higher we maintain it the better our overall health will be. Makes all the sense in the world.

You're the first person I've seen that called out VO2 Max as a primary goal, which is pretty atypical. It's a great thing to aim for, though, for sure.

I have the book but haven't read yet.

What's the easiest most practical way to test VO2?

Easiest way, though not quite as precise, is to use your watch (apple for example)) that has this calculation embedded into it. If you really want a precise number, going to the Dr and doing the treadmill test would be the thing to do. I just use my Apple watch knowing it isn't exact but testing has shown it to be close.

I will have to read the book Outlive as recommended by @Sand. I always thought Attia was the carnivore diet guy but will look into more. Rhonda Patrick is good too (her YouTube channel).

How do I do this on my Apple Watch? My gym does it withe mask and treadmill and what not. But I don’t feel like giving them $250 or whatever they’re charging.

I have an Apple watch 7 (I think, maybe an 8). It takes all of your metrics and loads it into the Apple Health app on your phone. The Apple Health app is where you will see the calculated VO2. Not 100% but close enough IMO.

 

[notoriousbill]

It's a great indicator of cardiovascular fitness, arguably the best indicator.

Taken in concert with blood pressure, cholesterol, hemoglobin A1c, and body composition, you can get a better picture of overall CV health.

Attia found/reported that VO2 max had the best correlation (in this case inverse correlation) with all causes mortality. So, if memory serves, he indicated it's both a measure of health and fitness.

The book is really good, though he kinda dismisses the entirety of nutrition science, and promotes waaaay too much testing imo.

I found his statin take to dramatically lower A1C to be unrealistic (aiming for an A1C of a 1 month old). That and the hyper testing for cancer. Otherwise I found the book to be excellent and there was a lot in there to chew on.

Since IO lost the weight and improving my CV health, I was able to get off the statins and gout medicines. My Dr told me I am his only patient that he can remember being able to pull this off, lol. Especially at my age - 58 years old.

Just got labs back and they look great!

 

[MAC_32]

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

When the same thing happened again in January this year, I tried semaglutide for a boost this year starting in late February and down about 15 lbs to this point. Pretty cool that it just makes you less hungry and makes you feel full faster. It isn't magic though and I'll still find myself occasionally munching on junk food / snacks in social situations or when I need to get fast meals for the kids out of habit rather than hunger. That's probably why results have been pretty consistent but not dramatic. Planning on stopping once I get around my goal weight as summer activities commence.

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

How have you done with side effects, and overall would you say it’s worth it and you would recommend? I’m entering that age range and could stand to lose 15-20 but don’t want to risk permanent issues or side effects that are brutal.

15-20 pounds isn't even that much weight that it would be super hard to lose through diet and exercise. Why would you even take a chance with injecting something into your body instead? Serious question.

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

Relating with this pretty hard right now. Been on an injury roller coaster since an accident aged 37 and my body has become increasingly temperamental since turning 40 about 18 months ago. I probably didn't put on ~15 lbs every holiday season, but closer to 10 than 0.

Due to those injuries I didn't lose the ~10 lbs I usually do in 2023, I added 10 more this year, and am in the process of not losing them again. I'm spending the next 2 months re-implementing healthy habits around vacations then hoping I maintain discipline and better health once on the other side. Only thinking about gummies once they're legally available for distribution in a few months for now in hopes that helps with the injuries, but if not I won't rule out going to the next step. Father time is undefeated though.

Slow and steady. It’s hard to quiet the stupid 25 year old inside of us. I would always injure myself when I ramped up my “return to working out”. I finally had to hire an expensive trainer and join the beugiest gym possible so as to not hurt myself. It worked. Expensive, but it worked. Try doing this stuff at 55.

The slow and steady part has been the most aggravating. Cause that's what I've been doing. Long overdue, but I'm trimming running back from training to maintenance. Hopefully that finally solves the problem. It's my comfort zone, but my body is saying no mas!

 

[Snotbubbles]

Just from what we are seeing now, these drugs should pulled IMO. I read an article last night about a woman in her 40's that won't be able to eat solid foods ever again because of Ozempic. Why would you risk it? I don't get it.

Thanks. Can you share the link to the article?

Woman can never eat solids again after Ozempic destroyed her stomach

The litany of grim medical conditions allegedly caused by Ozempic and similar weight-loss drugs are laid bare in a landmark court case.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Its an allegation in a class action lawsuit. The cause of her condition is far from an established fact.

Good news...you lost 75 pounds.

Bad news...you have thyroid cancer.

What are the indications for increased risk of various cancers when you are 75 pounds heavier than you should be?

You respond as if a proper diet and exercise regime can't achieve weight loss without increasing your odds of getting cancer.

 

[3C's]

It looks like Oura is rolling out VO2 testing on the rings now too.

Yes, arrived on mine last week. They use existing data but also use the 6 minute walk test to measure as well.

You asked earlier for easy/practical ways for testing: https://www.whyiexercise.com/VO2-Max.html

 

[bigbottom]

Just from what we are seeing now, these drugs should pulled IMO. I read an article last night about a woman in her 40's that won't be able to eat solid foods ever again because of Ozempic. Why would you risk it? I don't get it.

Thanks. Can you share the link to the article?

Woman can never eat solids again after Ozempic destroyed her stomach

The litany of grim medical conditions allegedly caused by Ozempic and similar weight-loss drugs are laid bare in a landmark court case.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Its an allegation in a class action lawsuit. The cause of her condition is far from an established fact.

Good news...you lost 75 pounds.

Bad news...you have thyroid cancer.

What are the indications for increased risk of various cancers when you are 75 pounds heavier than you should be?

You respond as if a proper diet and exercise regime can't achieve weight loss without increasing your odds of getting cancer.

My response suggests nothing of the sort. And it would appear that losing 75 pounds on Ozempic may actually reduce your chances of thyroid cancer rather than increase them.

 

[Max Power]

Ozempic is probably a net plus to society. We're a lazy unhealthy culture and these extreme weight loss options are realistically some of the only ways Americans will get on board to losing weight.

Less obesity would lead to less of a burden on our medical system = Good thing for everyone else.

I'm sure these drugs are dangerous as well, but if you aren't going to follow a healthy weight loss plan, you own the risks.

 

[Doug B]

My Dr told me I am his only patient that he can remember being able to pull this off, lol. Especially at my age - 58 years old.

To me, these kind of accounts make the necessity of this class of drugs all the more firmly-grounded. What good is a medical solution if hardly anyone can take advantage of it?

"Here, this pill has a 0.001% cure rate. Yes, yes, that other one has a 95% cure rate, but you have to take the 0.001% pill for a few years first."

 

[matttyl]

Ozempic is probably a net plus to society. We're a lazy unhealthy culture and these extreme weight loss options are realistically some of the only ways Americans will get on board to losing weight.

Less obesity would lead to less of a burden on our medical system = Good thing for everyone else.

I'm sure these drugs are dangerous as well, but if you aren't going to follow a healthy weight loss plan, you own the risks.

I haven’t seen anything specific on this, but at least with tobacco use I’ve seen studies showing that on average (over a lifetime) they are less costly in terms of medical spending than their non smoking counterparts. I questioned why, and then found it’s because they don’t live as long (on average). Their entire medical spending (making up the numbers here, but you get the point) generally ends around age 72 when their non smoking counterpart's ends at age 85. Those extra 13 years (end of life) tend to be the most costly - and are generally covered in that age range by Medicare.

The same would be true of Social Security. If more people are living longer (that would be the outcome of less obesity), that would be a further strain on it, too.

Again, haven’t seen any specific studies in regards to obesity, but I do t see how it would be any different than tobacco in these type situations.

 

[gruecd]

Less obesity would lead to less of a burden on our medical system = Good thing for everyone else.

I'm actually not sure about that. Obese people tend to die much earlier. Having all of those people living longer would actually put MORE strain on the medical system. Still probably a net positive, but just saying...

 

[Max Power]

Ozempic is probably a net plus to society. We're a lazy unhealthy culture and these extreme weight loss options are realistically some of the only ways Americans will get on board to losing weight.

Less obesity would lead to less of a burden on our medical system = Good thing for everyone else.

I'm sure these drugs are dangerous as well, but if you aren't going to follow a healthy weight loss plan, you own the risks.

I haven’t seen anything specific on this, but at least with tobacco use I’ve seen studies showing that on average (over a lifetime) they are less costly in terms of medical spending than their non smoking counterparts. I questioned why, and then found it’s because they don’t live as long (on average). Their entire medical spending (making up the numbers here, but you get the point) generally ends around age 72 when their non smoking counterpart's ends at age 85. Those extra 13 years (end of life) tend to be the most costly - and are generally covered in that age range by Medicare.

The same would be true of Social Security. If more people are living longer (that would be the outcome of less obesity), that would be a further strain on it, too.

Again, haven’t seen any specific studies in regards to obesity, but I do t see how it would be any different than tobacco in these type situations.

That is some interesting food for thought (no pun). Probably exposes some bias in my thinking. I saw the immediate reward potential and didn't factor in what the second or third order affect might be.

 

[matttyl]

Ozempic is probably a net plus to society. We're a lazy unhealthy culture and these extreme weight loss options are realistically some of the only ways Americans will get on board to losing weight.

Less obesity would lead to less of a burden on our medical system = Good thing for everyone else.

I'm sure these drugs are dangerous as well, but if you aren't going to follow a healthy weight loss plan, you own the risks.

I haven’t seen anything specific on this, but at least with tobacco use I’ve seen studies showing that on average (over a lifetime) they are less costly in terms of medical spending than their non smoking counterparts. I questioned why, and then found it’s because they don’t live as long (on average). Their entire medical spending (making up the numbers here, but you get the point) generally ends around age 72 when their non smoking counterpart's ends at age 85. Those extra 13 years (end of life) tend to be the most costly - and are generally covered in that age range by Medicare.

The same would be true of Social Security. If more people are living longer (that would be the outcome of less obesity), that would be a further strain on it, too.

Again, haven’t seen any specific studies in regards to obesity, but I do t see how it would be any different than tobacco in these type situations.

That is some interesting food for thought (no pun). Probably exposes some bias in my thinking. I saw the immediate reward potential and didn't factor in what the second or third order affect might be.

Again, I haven’t seen any studies on it regarding obesity, but have with tobacco use. I hate to phrase it in these terms - but social programs like Medicare (possibly Medicaid), and social security all need folks passing in their 50s and early 60s to remain financially solvent long term.

And those are just the social safety net type things - we’d also need to consider hospital capacity/strain with more elderly people in the system a few decades down the line. Additional long term care facility need as well, which will only increase those costs.

Not saying it won’t be a net possible to society or not, but these are additional factors that should be considered.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

When the same thing happened again in January this year, I tried semaglutide for a boost this year starting in late February and down about 15 lbs to this point. Pretty cool that it just makes you less hungry and makes you feel full faster. It isn't magic though and I'll still find myself occasionally munching on junk food / snacks in social situations or when I need to get fast meals for the kids out of habit rather than hunger. That's probably why results have been pretty consistent but not dramatic. Planning on stopping once I get around my goal weight as summer activities commence.

I was also in the "hey fat guys, it's simple, just exercise and eat less, physics energy/mass balance and all" camp until it stopped working for me. I think diet / exercise is still the way to start rather than just turning to drugs. But then there are also people like my mom who are overweight and over 80 and have had hip, knee, etc replacements who just can't go out and run, jog, even walk for miles for excercise. I think this could be a great option to help people like that.

How have you done with side effects, and overall would you say it’s worth it and you would recommend? I’m entering that age range and could stand to lose 15-20 but don’t want to risk permanent issues or side effects that are brutal.

15-20 pounds isn't even that much weight that it would be super hard to lose through diet and exercise. Why would you even take a chance with injecting something into your body instead? Serious question.

I used to cycle up and down by season, would gain about 10-15 lbs through the eating seasons from Halloween through Christmas and while my body decided it was hungry all the time to put on some winter hibernating weight. Then after Christmas / New Year's vacation, I'd get serious about eating right and exercising again and lose the weight in a few months. That was until I him my early/mid 40's and metabolism went in the tank. Same approach didn't yield same results and wouldn't drop the weight.

Relating with this pretty hard right now. Been on an injury roller coaster since an accident aged 37 and my body has become increasingly temperamental since turning 40 about 18 months ago. I probably didn't put on ~15 lbs every holiday season, but closer to 10 than 0.

Due to those injuries I didn't lose the ~10 lbs I usually do in 2023, I added 10 more this year, and am in the process of not losing them again. I'm spending the next 2 months re-implementing healthy habits around vacations then hoping I maintain discipline and better health once on the other side. Only thinking about gummies once they're legally available for distribution in a few months for now in hopes that helps with the injuries, but if not I won't rule out going to the next step. Father time is undefeated though.

Slow and steady. It’s hard to quiet the stupid 25 year old inside of us. I would always injure myself when I ramped up my “return to working out”. I finally had to hire an expensive trainer and join the beugiest gym possible so as to not hurt myself. It worked. Expensive, but it worked. Try doing this stuff at 55.

Agree. Just need to swallow your pride/ego and slowwly ease back to health.

Which reminds me, how’s the knee?

Not great. Still waiting on the mri. Had a kenalog shot. That did wonders. But now that it’s not swollen the instability is more apparent. Patellar tracking has been the issue and pain center the last few days. We’ll see.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

If you get a chance read Outlive. It's like #3 among all books right now. Attia argues in part of that book that VO2 max is the best indicator of overall health (as defined by all causes reduction in mortality) and he backs that up with a ton of studies. His big logic gate there is that one should aim at as high a VO2 as one can achieve so one has headroom as we age to be able to do the things we want to do - VO2 naturally decreases as we get older, so the higher we maintain it the better our overall health will be. Makes all the sense in the world.

You're the first person I've seen that called out VO2 Max as a primary goal, which is pretty atypical. It's a great thing to aim for, though, for sure.

I have the book but haven't read yet.

What's the easiest most practical way to test VO2?

Easiest way, though not quite as precise, is to use your watch (apple for example)) that has this calculation embedded into it. If you really want a precise number, going to the Dr and doing the treadmill test would be the thing to do. I just use my Apple watch knowing it isn't exact but testing has shown it to be close.

I will have to read the book Outlive as recommended by @Sand. I always thought Attia was the carnivore diet guy but will look into more. Rhonda Patrick is good too (her YouTube channel).

How do I do this on my Apple Watch? My gym does it withe mask and treadmill and what not. But I don’t feel like giving them $250 or whatever they’re charging.

I have an Apple watch 7 (I think, maybe an 8). It takes all of your metrics and loads it into the Apple Health app on your phone. The Apple Health app is where you will see the calculated VO2. Not 100% but close enough IMO.

Found it. Cool. It has me around 34. Thanks

 

[bigbottom]

They are surprised when I tell them my goal is improving my VO2 to 41+ (I am 58).

Fascinating how Attia is having an effect on how people view health.

Attia? Is he the carnivior diet guy? Uhm, no, I do not prescribe into limiting diet to only certain food groups.

I guess VO2 is not an indicator of cardio vascular health? What would be a good indicator? Please let me know so I can be better informed.

If you get a chance read Outlive. It's like #3 among all books right now. Attia argues in part of that book that VO2 max is the best indicator of overall health (as defined by all causes reduction in mortality) and he backs that up with a ton of studies. His big logic gate there is that one should aim at as high a VO2 as one can achieve so one has headroom as we age to be able to do the things we want to do - VO2 naturally decreases as we get older, so the higher we maintain it the better our overall health will be. Makes all the sense in the world.

You're the first person I've seen that called out VO2 Max as a primary goal, which is pretty atypical. It's a great thing to aim for, though, for sure.

I have the book but haven't read yet.

What's the easiest most practical way to test VO2?

Easiest way, though not quite as precise, is to use your watch (apple for example)) that has this calculation embedded into it. If you really want a precise number, going to the Dr and doing the treadmill test would be the thing to do. I just use my Apple watch knowing it isn't exact but testing has shown it to be close.

I will have to read the book Outlive as recommended by @Sand. I always thought Attia was the carnivore diet guy but will look into more. Rhonda Patrick is good too (her YouTube channel).

How do I do this on my Apple Watch? My gym does it withe mask and treadmill and what not. But I don’t feel like giving them $250 or whatever they’re charging.

I have an Apple watch 7 (I think, maybe an 8). It takes all of your metrics and loads it into the Apple Health app on your phone. The Apple Health app is where you will see the calculated VO2. Not 100% but close enough IMO.

Found it. Cool. It has me around 34. Thanks

I found it in the app but the data is from 5 years ago. How does it get updated?