*** OFFICIAL *** 13/14 Off-Season Dynasty Trade Thread (1 Viewer)

[Evil G]

12 Team PPR Dynasty QRRWWTKD + Flex + SuperFlex, TE Premium

Gave: Britt, 1.06, 3.03

Got: 2.01, 2015 1st (will be top 4)

 

[EBF]

You turned down Charles and all you had to give was picks 3 and 10????

I prefer to have dollar bills in my wallet, but if someone offers me a piece of gold that is worth a thousand dollars that doesnt fit in my wallet, I would be happy to trade the 100 bucks in cash I have for the silly uncomfortable gold brick.

That would likely have ended up being the cheapest trade for Charles this entire offeason if we combine all leagues.

When a deal is that lopsided, just take it, and deal with it later if you dont want the player.

Charles might be a piece of gold, but he's dissolving in acid.

I've learned not to trust the wisdom of the crowd too much when it comes to 27-28 year old Pro Bowl RBs. Otherwise you end up being the dunce who spent his first round startup pick on the ghost of LT, Westbrook, or Faulk. People chase past production, but it's all about the future and the 1-2 good years Charles gives you will come and go pretty quickly. You will like having him during that time, but if you don't win the league then you'll probably come to regret it.

Using him as a trading chip sounds good in theory, but in practice (at least in that league) it's pretty unlikely that I'd be able to convert him into the type of player that I really want (i.e. Dez, Julio, Thomas, etc).

 

[Coeur de Lion]

You turned down Charles and all you had to give was picks 3 and 10????

I prefer to have dollar bills in my wallet, but if someone offers me a piece of gold that is worth a thousand dollars that doesnt fit in my wallet, I would be happy to trade the 100 bucks in cash I have for the silly uncomfortable gold brick.

That would likely have ended up being the cheapest trade for Charles this entire offeason if we combine all leagues.

When a deal is that lopsided, just take it, and deal with it later if you dont want the player.

Charles might be a piece of gold, but he's dissolving in acid.

I've learned not to trust the wisdom of the crowd too much when it comes to 27-28 year old Pro Bowl RBs. Otherwise you end up being the dunce who spent his first round startup pick on the ghost of LT, Westbrook, or Faulk. People chase past production, but it's all about the future and the 1-2 good years Charles gives you will come and go pretty quickly. You will like having him during that time, but if you don't win the league then you'll probably come to regret it.

Using him as a trading chip sounds good in theory, but in practice (at least in that league) it's pretty unlikely that I'd be able to convert him into the type of player that I really want (i.e. Dez, Julio, Thomas, etc).

No need to keep knocking down that strawman. 1st round startup pick =/= 1.03 + 1.10.

 

[Donsmith753]

Charles is an outlier in so many ways that I'd question the value of comparing him to NFL RBs as a whole, or even to guys like Ray Rice and Marshawn Lynch, for that matter. Considering the situation he's been in (until this year) his production has been pretty jaw dropping -- 5.6 career YPC is really absurd. He's a HOF level, generational talent IMO, and he's finally got the perfect system -- I think he's a guy you just ride into the ground, winning titles along the way, unless you get something you just can't say no to. And in my case that would be another cornerstone player +; draft picks wouldn't be getting it done unless we're talking something like the top two, or four random 1sts, or something equally ridiculous. I can't fathom moving him for 1.03 & 1.10.

It might work out that way, but that's the same story people told themselves about guys like Faulk, Tomlinson and Westbrook.

I'd guess that we'll probably get one more elite season from Charles, one more solid season, and then maybe another mediocre season or two.

The problem from my perspective is that his value is totally front-loaded, so you'll get what you get in 2014 and 2015, and that's pretty much it. If you don't win anything in that two year window, your first round pack his disintegrated in your palm. If he were going in the 30-40 range of drafts then maybe that gamble would be worth it, but when you can pick other guys like Graham and Julio who can potentially make just as big of a ppg difference (depending your format) while also having a more favorable long term outlook, it's a pretty easy decision to pass.

I'd be curious to see a generic analysis of 1.03 and 1.10 vs. a random 27 year old elite RB. I really don't know which side would be favored there, but I know that my personal preference (unless I had an old team right on the cusp) would be to keep the picks and try my luck with the next generation.

I wouldn't take him ahead of the elite young WRs in a startup either, but there's a massive gulf in value between Julio Jones and the 1.03 / 1.10 -- they don't belong in the same discussion at all man.

For reference, here are the 1.03/1.10 picks from that league over the years:

2013 - Tyler Eifert/LeVeon Bell

2012 - Justin Blackmon/Rueben Randle

2011 - Mark Ingram/Shane Vereen

2010 - CJ Spiller/Sam Bradford

2009 - Beanie Wells/Percy Harvin

2008 - Rashard Mendenhall/Jamaal Charles

2007 - Marshawn Lynch/Anthony Gonzalez

I don't think any of those hauls would be too bad for even the best 27 year old RB.

If it was just the 1.03 then it would be more lopsided, but having two darts instead of one makes a huge difference.

SSOG did a ton of work a while back to show the value of 4 random first round rookie picks. I don't think there's a player worth 4 picks by himself.

That being said, I'm not sure any of the packages (outside of 2008) you posted are hands-down better than Charles.

I'd take Lynch or Harvin's entire NFL career over a 27 year old star RB. Spiller is more of a coin flip and the jury is very much out on the 2012 and 2013 groups.

The only package there that I strongly dislike is the Ingram/Vereen one, and even then there are people who think Vereen is worth a lot.

The point is that it's easy to think about 1.03/1.10 being worth less than a proven veteran when the picks are just an abstract concept, but in reality you're going to take a decent prospect with those picks and between the two of them there's a pretty good chance that you'll get at least one high level player.

I think the 1.01/1.11/2.01 deal for Charles posted on the last page is pretty similar. Between those three picks, you should be able to walk away with 1-2 strong pieces. That might be worth more than the backslope of Charles's prime.

It's still anecdotal evidence -- and in this case there's really no reason to use it. We have hard data on what it's reasonable to expect value over baseline-wise out of those picks, and that can be compared easily to what we expect out of Charles. A single #1 overall lap the field season like Charles just had last year is absolutely worth more, a lot more, in terms of delivering a title, than almost any amout of "useful." In terms of raw value over baseline, Charles was worth 2.5 x Marshawn Lynch last year. In reality -- he single handedly won people titles. Now obviously we can't just assume a repeat of that in 2014 -- but you're definitely underselling the value of a short window of truly great vs a long window of merely good.

He won me a title in the format EBF is talking about. I had the second worst record in 2012, had no first round draft pick (so it wasn't that that led to the improvement).

It's the worst roster I've ever had to win a title, I started Freeman / Weeden and Henne at QB most of the year FFS.

 

[EBF]

You turned down Charles and all you had to give was picks 3 and 10????

I prefer to have dollar bills in my wallet, but if someone offers me a piece of gold that is worth a thousand dollars that doesnt fit in my wallet, I would be happy to trade the 100 bucks in cash I have for the silly uncomfortable gold brick.

That would likely have ended up being the cheapest trade for Charles this entire offeason if we combine all leagues.

When a deal is that lopsided, just take it, and deal with it later if you dont want the player.

Charles might be a piece of gold, but he's dissolving in acid.

I've learned not to trust the wisdom of the crowd too much when it comes to 27-28 year old Pro Bowl RBs. Otherwise you end up being the dunce who spent his first round startup pick on the ghost of LT, Westbrook, or Faulk. People chase past production, but it's all about the future and the 1-2 good years Charles gives you will come and go pretty quickly. You will like having him during that time, but if you don't win the league then you'll probably come to regret it.

Using him as a trading chip sounds good in theory, but in practice (at least in that league) it's pretty unlikely that I'd be able to convert him into the type of player that I really want (i.e. Dez, Julio, Thomas, etc).

No need to keep knocking down that strawman. 1st round startup pick =/= 1.03 + 1.10.

All the same, Charles has one "great" season in his entire career (2013) and three others that were very good, but not really exceptional.

Considering that he'll be an old 27 next season, I'd say one more peak season and one more good season is a realistic expectation for what he has left in the tank. So maybe one 19-23 ppg season and one 14-18 ppg season. Is that really worth 1.03 and 1.10? I don't think so.

I don't have the historical data in front of me to talk about the EV based on historical equivalents, but it seems pretty clear from my drafts over the years that you're likely to walk away with at least one very solid player between picks 1.03 and 1.10. And bear in mind that many people seem to view that haul as being well below his market price. All of which points towards him being pretty overrated right now.

Same old story of drafting based on last year's stats and overrating players based on past achievements. It's going to be tough for a RB this deep into his prime to justify the kind of prices people are talking about for Charles. Not impossible, but hardly a given. He's riiight near the age where backs usually start to lose something. Nevermind the market value side of things, which is headed one way and one way only (down).

 

[deadlyrange0321]

12 team PPR 1QB 1RB 1WR 1TE 3FLEX

Team A trades:

Andre Johnson

Team B trades:

Justin Hunter

2015 2nd (Prob mid-late)

 

[Denver724]

12 team. 1/1/1.5 PPR

QB, RB, RB, WR, WR, TE, 2 FLEX

Julio Jones

Rob Gronkowski

for

AJ Green

Michael Floyd

Ladarius Green

Green side for me.

In a 1.5 PPR(TE) league?! The new Green ownver got worked. Gronk is the biggest part in the deal.

I'm not sure about Gronk anymore. The guy is always hurt. I think he is greatly overrated.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

You turned down Charles and all you had to give was picks 3 and 10????

I prefer to have dollar bills in my wallet, but if someone offers me a piece of gold that is worth a thousand dollars that doesnt fit in my wallet, I would be happy to trade the 100 bucks in cash I have for the silly uncomfortable gold brick.

That would likely have ended up being the cheapest trade for Charles this entire offeason if we combine all leagues.

When a deal is that lopsided, just take it, and deal with it later if you dont want the player.

Charles might be a piece of gold, but he's dissolving in acid.

I've learned not to trust the wisdom of the crowd too much when it comes to 27-28 year old Pro Bowl RBs. Otherwise you end up being the dunce who spent his first round startup pick on the ghost of LT, Westbrook, or Faulk. People chase past production, but it's all about the future and the 1-2 good years Charles gives you will come and go pretty quickly. You will like having him during that time, but if you don't win the league then you'll probably come to regret it.

Using him as a trading chip sounds good in theory, but in practice (at least in that league) it's pretty unlikely that I'd be able to convert him into the type of player that I really want (i.e. Dez, Julio, Thomas, etc).

No need to keep knocking down that strawman. 1st round startup pick =/= 1.03 + 1.10.

All the same, Charles has one "great" season in his entire career (2013) and three others that were very good, but not really exceptional.

Considering that he'll be an old 27 next season, I'd say one more peak season and one more good season is a realistic expectation for what he has left in the tank. So maybe one 19-23 ppg season and one 14-18 ppg season. Is that really worth 1.03 and 1.10? I don't think so.

I don't have the historical data in front of me to talk about the EV based on historical equivalents, but it seems pretty clear from my drafts over the years that you're likely to walk away with at least one very solid player between picks 1.03 and 1.10. And bear in mind that many people seem to view that haul as being well below his market price. All of which points towards him being pretty overrated right now.

Same old story of drafting based on last year's stats and overrating players based on past achievements. It's going to be tough for a RB this deep into his prime to justify the kind of prices people are talking about for Charles. Not impossible, but hardly a given. He's riiight near the age where backs usually start to lose something. Nevermind the market value side of things, which is headed one way and one way only (down).

So you see the most likely outcome for him as retiring having just turned 29 after a precipitous fall off each of the next two years? Alrighty then.

I'd personally bet on another two years of true difference-making RB1 production, considering his HOF-level talent and Reid's history with RB production, followed by another year or two of just useful.

And regardless, one single year of 23 PPG is actually more valuable than what you're likely to get out of 1.03 & 1.10, although it's not shiny and new.

 

[One More Rep]

12 team PPR 1QB 1RB 1WR 1TE 3FLEX

Team A trades:

Andre Johnson

Team B trades:

Justin Hunter

2015 2nd (Prob mid-late)

Hunter/2nd

 

[MoveToSkypager]

You turned down Charles and all you had to give was picks 3 and 10????

I prefer to have dollar bills in my wallet, but if someone offers me a piece of gold that is worth a thousand dollars that doesnt fit in my wallet, I would be happy to trade the 100 bucks in cash I have for the silly uncomfortable gold brick.

That would likely have ended up being the cheapest trade for Charles this entire offeason if we combine all leagues.

When a deal is that lopsided, just take it, and deal with it later if you dont want the player.

Charles might be a piece of gold, but he's dissolving in acid.

I've learned not to trust the wisdom of the crowd too much when it comes to 27-28 year old Pro Bowl RBs. Otherwise you end up being the dunce who spent his first round startup pick on the ghost of LT, Westbrook, or Faulk. People chase past production, but it's all about the future and the 1-2 good years Charles gives you will come and go pretty quickly. You will like having him during that time, but if you don't win the league then you'll probably come to regret it.

Using him as a trading chip sounds good in theory, but in practice (at least in that league) it's pretty unlikely that I'd be able to convert him into the type of player that I really want (i.e. Dez, Julio, Thomas, etc).

I must not understand your point here, because if I traded for Tomlinson at age 27, I would have gotten the 1, 2, 6, 24 and 15 RB in consecutive years. I'd be satisfied with that, especially considering the massive advantage he was when he was 27.

 

[Archer]

12 team PPR dynasty

Team A gets: 1.5 rookie pick

Team B gets: Roddy White & 2.1

 

[One More Rep]

12 team PPR dynasty

Team A gets: 1.5 rookie pick

Team B gets: Roddy White & 2.1

I think I like Roddy and moving back eight spots

 

[EBF]

So you see the most likely outcome for him as retiring having just turned 29 after a precipitous fall off each of the next two years? Alrighty then.I'd personally bet on another two years of true difference-making RB1 production, considering his HOF-level talent and Reid's history with RB production, followed by another year or two of just useful.

And regardless, one single year of 23 PPG is actually more valuable than what you're likely to get out of 1.03 & 1.10, although it's not shiny and new.

He's only had true difference-making RB1 production once in his career. 2010 was really good, but still far off his 2013 numbers.

Maybe with Reid around that will become the new normal, but based on his past it's not realistic to expect 25 or even 23 ppg.

Something like 20 ppg would represent a more realistic compromise between the floor and ceiling for a season in which he's at 100% of his ability.

That's one of the main problems though. He most likely won't be at 100% for much longer. Most backs seem to peak right around 27-28 and then drop off. Sometimes it is slow and gradual where you get some good seasons after the peak (like with Emmitt Smith and Curtis Martin). Other times it's almost overnight (as with Clinton Portis and Eddie George). It is hard to say exactly what will happen with Charles, but age has been pretty unkind to other fast-twitch speed backs like Tomlinson, Faulk, and Chris Johnson. Once they lost a step, they went from "special" to "pedestrian" almost overnight.

That would be my guess for Charles. The question is when. I don't think it will be next year. Based on other similar backs, I think a good guess is that he'll be right around his peak athletic ability for this next season. And then in subsequent seasons you'll see a steady and progressive decline.

If you want to break the bank on a 1-2 year rental who may give you some middling seasons beyond that, so be it. I don't think he's worth the cost. I usually recommend selling players after their career year. But of course when you're the one holding the player in question with all his recent glories fresh in your mind, it's hard to remember that things aren't guaranteed (or even likely) to continue that way. Just look at the downturn in Peterson's performance/value from 2013-2014 to see a sneak preview of what will happen with Charles.

 

[Archer]

12 team PPR dynasty

Team A gets: 1.5 rookie pick

Team B gets: Roddy White & 2.1

I think I like Roddy and moving back eight spots

Felt like I overpaid but really needed a RB and felt 1.5 would land me a top 2 RB.

 

[kwille]

12 team PPR

A: Michael Floyd, 1.11

B: Marvin Jones, Jarett Boykin, 1.04

 

[One More Rep]

12 team PPR dynasty

Team A gets: 1.5 rookie pick

Team B gets: Roddy White & 2.1

I think I like Roddy and moving back eight spots

Felt like I overpaid but really needed a RB and felt 1.5 would land me a top 2 RB.

It's close. If there is a guy you want at 1.5, definitely not a bad move

 

[One More Rep]

12 team PPR

A: Michael Floyd, 1.11

B: Marvin Jones, Jarett Boykin, 1.04

Floyd side

 

[cdubz]

12 team PPR

A: Michael Floyd, 1.11

B: Marvin Jones, Jarett Boykin, 1.04

Floyd side

Yep, by a significant margin IMHO.

 

[LususV]

My league has been playing Julio Jones hot potato recently:

14 team PPR 1 QB 2 RB 3 WR 1 TE 1 Flex

1) Julio Jones+3.03 for Andre Ellington+Michael Crabtree+1.11+2015 1st

2) Julio Jones+CJ Anderson+Coby Fleener+2.04 for AJ Green+Charles Clay

3) Julio Jones+1.06 for Josh Gordon+2.02

(I've also been offered Julio by two of these teams; Julio+Fitzgerald+2.10 for Dez+1.02 and Julio+Rueben Randle+1.06 for Dez+1.02+2015 2nd).

 

[jonboltz]

** From the "I just don't understand owners sometimes" files ***

New owner takes over for a wretched team, who has basically Peyton, Andre Johnson, and nothing else (literally next best player was Khiry or Stevie Johnson). 1 win last year. Terrible.

I offer Cam Newton for Peyton and Andre...

He counters with (no joke) Peyton for Cam, Brandon Marshall, Jimmy Graham, 1.12, 3.09 (3rd rounder added just to make it even, ya know)

I decline and tell him that I view Cam > Peyton for dynasty, but thanks for offer.

He accept this offer:

• A gave up Manning, Eli NYG QB;Givens, Chris STL WR;Shorts, Cecil JAC WR; Year 2015 Round 1 Draft Pick;Year 2015 Round 2 Draft Pick
• B gave up Manning, Peyton DEN QB; Year 2014 Draft Pick 2.08

I just don't understand owners sometimes

 

[cstu]

I like the offer he took more than what you offered. Andre (Johnson?) is worth a high 1st.

 

[jonboltz]

I like the offer he took more than what you offered. Andre (Johnson?) is worth a high 1st.

Aside from the fact that he took 2.02 for Andre, and even agreeing that Andre is worth what I'd give you as a "mid-first"...I offered Cam. (this was also pre-FA, pre-surgery, pre-Smith cut, etc). I don't believe the "Eli side" plus Andre is remotely close to Cam.

 

[Concept Coop]

I just don't understand owners sometimes

Some people have a gift for making people do things they don't want to do. I'm not one of them.

 

[deadlyrange0321]

12 team PPR (TE 1.25) 1QB 1RB 1WR 1TE 3FLEX

Team A trades:

Stefon Diggs

Team B trades:

Jace Amaro

 

[Concept Coop]

12 team PPR (TE 1.25) 1QB 1RB 1WR 1TE 3FLEX

Team A trades:

Stefon Diggs

Team B trades:

Jace Amaro

I'd take the safer option; Amaro. Close, however.

 

[maxhyde]

12 team PPR

A: Michael Floyd, 1.11

B: Marvin Jones, Jarett Boykin, 1.04

Like Floyd here

 

[maxhyde]

I like the offer he took more than what you offered. Andre (Johnson?) is worth a high 1st.

I agree.

I really like Cam but if his team is awful giving up both of his best assets for one elite one makes less sense than splitting them out and getting a bunch of draft picks where he can begin to shape his team the way he likes

Also Eli, Shorts and Givens will help until he is built out

 

[maxhyde]

12 team PPR (TE 1.25) 1QB 1RB 1WR 1TE 3FLEX

Team A trades:

Stefon Diggs

Team B trades:

Jace Amaro

I'd take the safer option; Amaro. Close, however.

+1

 

[lsutigers]

12 team PPR, super keeper (keep 18/25) start 4 WR/TE

Team A gives: Ray Rice, 2014 3.03 rookie

Team B gives: DeSean Jackson, 2014 3.11 rookie

Team B has a ridiculous amount of WR talent (Megatron, Dez, Keenan Allen, Jeffrey, Floyd, Kendall Wright, Britt) and not much at RB (ADP, Vereen, DeAngelo and Jonathan Stewart).

 

[cstu]

I like the offer he took more than what you offered. Andre (Johnson?) is worth a high 1st.

Aside from the fact that he took 2.02 for Andre, and even agreeing that Andre is worth what I'd give you as a "mid-first"...I offered Cam. (this was also pre-FA, pre-surgery, pre-Smith cut, etc). I don't believe the "Eli side" plus Andre is remotely close to Cam.

I'm pretty high on Andre for the next couple years and don't feel very confident in Cam's progress as a passer so that is skewing my view of the trade.

Eli isn't worth anything so I look at it as AJ, Shorts and a 1st for Cam. Close, but I still like the AJ side.

BTW, 2.02 for AJ is terrible.

 

[bostonfred]

I like the offer he took more than what you offered. Andre (Johnson?) is worth a high 1st.

I agree.I really like Cam but if his team is awful giving up both of his best assets for one elite one makes less sense than splitting them out and getting a bunch of draft picks where he can begin to shape his team the way he likes

Also Eli, Shorts and Givens will help until he is built out

It really depends what his goal is. He still has his own first round pick, and if he trades away Peyton for Cam, he will still have a crappy team but will back into fewer wins. For a rebuilding team, Cam is actually a pretty good guy to trade for in what is expected to be a down year. His odds of getting the number one pick next year go way up, in what should be a better RB draft than this one. So if he could get Cam, plus a rookie WR in this year's draft, and a rookie RB in next year's draft, he'd potentially have three anchor players as soon as next year. And he didn't have to give up his second rounder this year to get it, which may let him land another receiver in a deep draft.But that only works if he wants to grow his team organically through the draft. The other deal gets him some draft picks and some guys he can flip. You can't flip Cam. You won't get enough for him this year, and his value looks ready to go down, so you won't get more for him next year than you gave up for him this year. With the Eli trade, he's not going to win much, so he should still be a favorite for 1.1 or close to it. And if he has two good firsts next year, he might be able to build a contender faster with Eli than with Cam - if he gets a good receiver this year, and one of Shorts or Givens pans out as a legit option (I don't like either, personally), then he'd have a QB and two WRs, and could pick up two good backs in next year's draft - that's basically a whole team at that point.

For me, I prefer having the flexibility to trade, so I'd go with the Eli deal if I had to choose between them. I'd be looking to flip that first rounder for some players, and then wait for people to need those players and turn them around for a little profit, keep working the free agent wire, and hopefully build up some trade inventory. I don't think the Cam trade is a bad one, it's just not the one I would have picked.

 

[maxhyde]

12 team PPR, super keeper (keep 18/25) start 4 WR/TE

Team A gives: Ray Rice, 2014 3.03 rookie

Team B gives: DeSean Jackson, 2014 3.11 rookie

Team B has a ridiculous amount of WR talent (Megatron, Dez, Keenan Allen, Jeffrey, Floyd, Kendall Wright, Britt) and not much at RB (ADP, Vereen, DeAngelo and Jonathan Stewart).

Pretty even swap to fill needs but depending on Rice's legal situation outcome could be a big win for DJax side

 

[Archer]

12 team PPR

Gave: 2.12 and Toilolo

Got: 2.9

 

[cdubz]

12 team PPR

Gave: 2.12 and Toilolo

Got: 2.9

Good trade

 

[MoveToSkypager]

12 team PPR, super keeper (keep 18/25) start 4 WR/TE

Team A gives: Ray Rice, 2014 3.03 rookie

Team B gives: DeSean Jackson, 2014 3.11 rookie

Team B has a ridiculous amount of WR talent (Megatron, Dez, Keenan Allen, Jeffrey, Floyd, Kendall Wright, Britt) and not much at RB (ADP, Vereen, DeAngelo and Jonathan Stewart).

Pretty even swap to fill needs but depending on Rice's legal situation outcome could be a big win for DJax side

I don't know if Rice's legal situation even matters at this point. He could be on of these guys that just falls off the cliff. I don't think we'll see him as a top FF scorer any longer. Team B might have done better to find a different RB at this time.

 

[Rockchild]

12 team PPR, super keeper (keep 18/25) start 4 WR/TE

Team A gives: Ray Rice, 2014 3.03 rookie

Team B gives: DeSean Jackson, 2014 3.11 rookie

Team B has a ridiculous amount of WR talent (Megatron, Dez, Keenan Allen, Jeffrey, Floyd, Kendall Wright, Britt) and not much at RB (ADP, Vereen, DeAngelo and Jonathan Stewart).

Pretty even swap to fill needs but depending on Rice's legal situation outcome could be a big win for DJax side

I don't know if Rice's legal situation even matters at this point. He could be on of these guys that just falls off the cliff. I don't think we'll see him as a top FF scorer any longer. Team B might have done better to find a different RB at this time.

I think it's cheap enough to find out about Rice. As talented as DJax is he's not a PPR beast but a decent/good option. As for Rice, legal issues aside, he had a hip problem last year IIRC and was carrying some extra weight. If reports are correct, he's lost weight so worth it to me and if he's done, sure, the DJax side wins but a cheap enough gamble for Team B. He also has enough ammo to go after a better RB if this does fall through.

 

[doowain]

14 Team PPR (1.5 for TEs) with developmental players (watered down rookie pool)

Start 1/2/2 and 2 flex (WR/TE occupy the same starting slot)

Gave:

Ryan Griffin

Brandon Bostick

2015 1st (had the 1.13 this year)

Got:

Ray Rice

I'm not looking to buy Rice anywhere but felt this was a very low risk acquisition. Sure, Griffin and Bostick could earn starting jobs, but neither is likely to start for me and/or be a world beater. The 1st will be late again (hopefully). The rules for developmental players in this league allow for any college player to be rostered (they don't have to be draft eligible the following year), so guys like Gurley and Yeldon are already rostered.

This one got lost as the Jamaal Charles conversation ensued right after I posted.

 

[maxhyde]

14 Team PPR (1.5 for TEs) with developmental players (watered down rookie pool)

Start 1/2/2 and 2 flex (WR/TE occupy the same starting slot)

Gave:

Ryan Griffin

Brandon Bostick

2015 1st (had the 1.13 this year)

Got:

Ray Rice

I'm not looking to buy Rice anywhere but felt this was a very low risk acquisition. Sure, Griffin and Bostick could earn starting jobs, but neither is likely to start for me and/or be a world beater. The 1st will be late again (hopefully). The rules for developmental players in this league allow for any college player to be rostered (they don't have to be draft eligible the following year), so guys like Gurley and Yeldon are already rostered.

This one got lost as the Jamaal Charles conversation ensued right after I posted.

I think a solid buy low on Rice but I am likely one of the few that thinks he isn't done

 

[Coeur de Lion]

14 Team PPR (1.5 for TEs) with developmental players (watered down rookie pool)

Start 1/2/2 and 2 flex (WR/TE occupy the same starting slot)

Gave:

Ryan Griffin

Brandon Bostick

2015 1st (had the 1.13 this year)

Got:

Ray Rice

I'm not looking to buy Rice anywhere but felt this was a very low risk acquisition. Sure, Griffin and Bostick could earn starting jobs, but neither is likely to start for me and/or be a world beater. The 1st will be late again (hopefully). The rules for developmental players in this league allow for any college player to be rostered (they don't have to be draft eligible the following year), so guys like Gurley and Yeldon are already rostered.

This one got lost as the Jamaal Charles conversation ensued right after I posted.

I think a solid buy low on Rice but I am likely one of the few that thinks he isn't done

Agreed. No one suddenly gets old at 26, and Pierce struggled even more last year -- which says to me it was more a team / o-line issue. I wouldn't be expecting him to return to high end RB1 form again, but I'd pay a likely late 1st for a couple of years of RB2, which seems fairly likely.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

14 Team PPR (1.5 for TEs) with developmental players (watered down rookie pool)

Start 1/2/2 and 2 flex (WR/TE occupy the same starting slot)

Gave:

Ryan Griffin

Brandon Bostick

2015 1st (had the 1.13 this year)

Got:

Ray Rice

I'm not looking to buy Rice anywhere but felt this was a very low risk acquisition. Sure, Griffin and Bostick could earn starting jobs, but neither is likely to start for me and/or be a world beater. The 1st will be late again (hopefully). The rules for developmental players in this league allow for any college player to be rostered (they don't have to be draft eligible the following year), so guys like Gurley and Yeldon are already rostered.

This one got lost as the Jamaal Charles conversation ensued right after I posted.

I think a solid buy low on Rice but I am likely one of the few that thinks he isn't done

Agreed. No one suddenly gets old at 26, and Pierce struggled even more last year -- which says to me it was more a team / o-line issue. I wouldn't be expecting him to return to high end RB1 form again, but I'd pay a likely late 1st for a couple of years of RB2, which seems fairly likely.

You can't say no one. It's not common, but some players do. Neal Anderson and Chris Warren fell off for various reasons. There are a few others I can think of too.

 

[Atomic Punk]

I like the offer he took more than what you offered. Andre (Johnson?) is worth a high 1st.

Aside from the fact that he took 2.02 for Andre, and even agreeing that Andre is worth what I'd give you as a "mid-first"...I offered Cam. (this was also pre-FA, pre-surgery, pre-Smith cut, etc). I don't believe the "Eli side" plus Andre is remotely close to Cam.

I'm pretty high on Andre for the next couple years and don't feel very confident in Cam's progress as a passer so that is skewing my view of the trade.

Eli isn't worth anything so I look at it as AJ, Shorts and a 1st for Cam. Close, but I still like the AJ side.

BTW, 2.02 for AJ is terrible.

I am the owner on one side of the trade and there is a bit of missing information on the AJ trade. The trade was AJ for 2.02, Stevie Johnson and a 2015 3rd. Given his options at WR, Stevie was likely an important piece for him.

As for the second trade, we went back and forth for weeks. Dynasty start up data had Shorts around 80-90 and Peyton around 70. considering I added a 2015 1st, 2nd, Givens and Eli, I think he got a pretty good haul for Peyton.

If you put the two deals together her got much more out of these deals then what Cam is worth IMO.

 

[Sabertooth]

My league has been playing Julio Jones hot potato recently:

14 team PPR 1 QB 2 RB 3 WR 1 TE 1 Flex

1) Julio Jones+3.03 for Andre Ellington+Michael Crabtree+1.11+2015 1st (Give me Julio)

2) Julio Jones+CJ Anderson+Coby Fleener+2.04 for AJ Green+Charles Clay (Give me Julio)

3) Julio Jones+1.06 for Josh Gordon+2.02 (Give me Julio)

(I've also been offered Julio by two of these teams; Julio+Fitzgerald+2.10 for Dez+1.02 and Julio+Rueben Randle+1.06 for Dez+1.02+2015 2nd).

 

[Sabertooth]

Team A Gave: RG3

Teaam B Gave: Peyton Manning

2QB League, both teams in contention.

 

[Concept Coop]

Team A Gave: RG3

Teaam B Gave: Peyton Manning

2QB League, both teams in contention.

4pt passing league and the new RG3 owner is the winner. In a 6pt league--it's close and would depend on my team's makeup. In a 2QB league--I'd likely take the long-term stability that RG3 could offer.

 

[Sabertooth]

Team A Gave: RG3

Teaam B Gave: Peyton Manning

2QB League, both teams in contention.

4pt passing league and the new RG3 owner is the winner. In a 6pt league--it's close and would depend on my team's makeup. In a 2QB league--I'd likely take the long-term stability that RG3 could offer.

That was my thought. Both teams being in contention means they might actually play each other during the playoffs which make this trade pretty important.

 

[coolnerd]

team a

Da'Rick rogers

2014 3rd

Team b

marques wilson

 

[Sabertooth]

Who the hell is Marques Wilson.

 

[LususV]

team a

Da'Rick rogers

2014 3rd

Team b

marques wilson

Early or late 3rd? Talent drops off a lot after top 24-28 imo.

I'm a Marquess fan, but I'd consider swapping for a late 2nd/early 3rd+Rogers.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

team a

Da'Rick rogers

2014 3rd

Team b

marques wilson

The pick should be on the other side, and even then it's not enough for Rogers.

 

[maxhyde]

I like the offer he took more than what you offered. Andre (Johnson?) is worth a high 1st.

Aside from the fact that he took 2.02 for Andre, and even agreeing that Andre is worth what I'd give you as a "mid-first"...I offered Cam. (this was also pre-FA, pre-surgery, pre-Smith cut, etc). I don't believe the "Eli side" plus Andre is remotely close to Cam.

I'm pretty high on Andre for the next couple years and don't feel very confident in Cam's progress as a passer so that is skewing my view of the trade.

Eli isn't worth anything so I look at it as AJ, Shorts and a 1st for Cam. Close, but I still like the AJ side.

BTW, 2.02 for AJ is terrible.

I am the owner on one side of the trade and there is a bit of missing information on the AJ trade. The trade was AJ for 2.02, Stevie Johnson and a 2015 3rd. Given his options at WR, Stevie was likely an important piece for him.

As for the second trade, we went back and forth for weeks. Dynasty start up data had Shorts around 80-90 and Peyton around 70. considering I added a 2015 1st, 2nd, Givens and Eli, I think he got a pretty good haul for Peyton.

If you put the two deals together her got much more out of these deals then what Cam is worth IMO.

Agreed and pretty much all the players he acquired have lost a ton of value from last years startup values so if any bounce back he comes out pretty good.

I really like Cam but no way I would give all that up for him

I think you paid more than a fair price for Peyton. 2.02/SJohnson/2015 3rd for AJ is a pretty decent return too but I am higher on Stevie than some