****OFFICIAL 2008 Washington Redskins Thread**** (1 Viewer)

[T Bell]

with all the talk about campbell's adjusting to the zorn system, do redskins fans really expect a significant bump in his numbers?

Yes, but I still expect his performance to be choppy, and their early schedule is not favorable (they play all three division rivals in the first five weeks, and all on the road). I think his late-season stats will be better than his early season stats.

 

[saintfool]

with all the talk about campbell's adjusting to the zorn system, do redskins fans really expect a significant bump in his numbers?

Yes, but I still expect his performance to be choppy, and their early schedule is not favorable (they play all three division rivals in the first five weeks, and all on the road). I think his late-season stats will be better than his early season stats.

who becomes the beneficiary? randl-el? moss? cooley?

 

[T Bell]

with all the talk about campbell's adjusting to the zorn system, do redskins fans really expect a significant bump in his numbers?

Yes, but I still expect his performance to be choppy, and their early schedule is not favorable (they play all three division rivals in the first five weeks, and all on the road). I think his late-season stats will be better than his early season stats.

who becomes the beneficiary? randl-el? moss? cooley?

In a word, yes. Moss is healthy for the first time since 2005. Randle El is a bigger part of this offense than he ever has been before - I've compared his role to Welker's , though he won't match Welker's stats. I've also said Cooley and Portis are the surest bets on the team to repeat their stats from prior years.

 

[Lowen1]

Nice article by JLaC on Gregg Williams in today's WaPo. Makes me about what could have been with Sean Taylor. And also, GGreg should be in the United Nations with how diplomatic he is praising Vinny, Danny and even Blache (who he doesn't speak to anymore).

By Jason La Canfora

Washington Post Staff Writer

Tuesday, August 26, 2008; Page E01

No matter where Gregg Williams goes, the memory of Sean Taylor is with him. A coin bearing Taylor's likeness, which Williams began carrying after Taylor was killed in November, remains in his pocket every day, a constant reminder of the ties the longtime coach still has to this area and franchise.

Williams's four-year tenure as Washington's defensive leader ended in January, when owner Daniel Snyder eliminated him from the running to replace Joe Gibbs as head coach and released him from his contract. But a piece of his heart always will be in Ashburn, he said, with recollections flooding back this week as Williams, now the defensive coordinator in Jacksonville, travels to FedEx Field to face the Redskins in Thursday night's preseason finale.

Williams, 50, has kept a low profile with the Jaguars -- he was hired almost immediately after leaving the Redskins -- and has addressed the Jacksonville media once. But Williams spoke before the start of training camp about his lingering relationships in Washington, his feelings for Snyder and executive vice president Vinny Cerrato (praising both) and his desire to be a head coach again, possibly even with the Redskins. After a traumatic 2007 season, Williams is relishing the relative tranquility of Jacksonville, but not forgetting a player and team that touched him at his core.

"Sean lives with me every single day, and I feel very strongly about that," Williams said. "I took a lot of knocks defending him early on, and I'm so proud and happy for people now to see what I saw for so long, behind the scenes. That was a great young man, and I still have a difficult time dealing with this. Sometimes I choke up and tear up thinking about him.

"I really feel he's with me every day. That's a unique relationship we had, probably one I'll never have again with any other player. Our personalities matched so much. He was all football, every single second. I've never been around someone that intense and that inspired about being the best as he was. He wanted to prove it every single second of the day. I miss him. I miss him a lot, and the experience we went through last year at the Redskins made us closer, all of us there, as a football team, but more importantly as an organization."

While Williams's time in Washington ended when he was let go with a year remaining on his contract, his presence can still be felt at Redskins Park, through the players and coaches linked closely to him and the style of defense still being played. He spoke often of his desire to change the Redskins' culture on defense, getting away from the selfishness and laziness that had characterized previous teams and ushered in a sea change in both effort and execution.

Williams said he takes pride in how his charges rallied to reach the playoffs in the aftermath of Taylor's murder above all else, and his life was changed indelibly by his years here. Williams had the opportunity to work under Hall of Fame coach Joe Gibbs, led the defense to three top 10 finishes, forged lifelong relationships with friends and colleagues in this area and still owns a house in Loudoun County, where the family celebrated high school and college graduations and grieved after Taylor's death.

There are daily reminders of that life cut short -- mementos in Williams's office in Jacksonville as well as on the field. He will see another young safety quickly close on the ball downfield -- often Jacksonville's Reggie Nelson -- and think of Taylor. Reminders are everywhere.

"I didn't fully realize until several months after his passing just how close Sean was to my two sons," Williams said. "The youngest is still in high school [Chase Williams is a star linebacker entering his junior year at Loudoun County High School] and wears No. 21. I never thought about why, then I asked him one day, and he said, 'Dad, you always said that Sean was the best player you've ever coached, so I wanted to wear that number, too.'

"My oldest boy [blake, an entry-level coach in Jacksonville] did two years of internships with the coaches in the secondary in Washington and developed such a close bond with Sean. I never knew it, but they talked two, three times a week during the season. And when he finished his undergraduate work at Princeton, and wrote a 152-page thesis, I took a look in the acknowledgments, and there's a page dedicated to his and Sean's relationship, and I'm reading it with tears running down my face realizing how close they were."

Williams worked to earn Taylor's trust and was one of his biggest boosters in the organization. Even at times when Taylor refused to return Gibbs's calls, he regularly reached out to Williams, team sources said. Williams urged Taylor to make positive changes in his life, putting family first after his arrest in Florida in 2005.

"There have been a lot of people to come out of the woodwork who act like they knew him, but they didn't," Williams said. "They didn't know him, and that's okay. They can say they knew him, but what really matters is I want people to understand and rejoice that he was a tremendous young man who made a lot of changes to better the people around him and better himself, and I'm not sure a lot of other people would have worked as hard at making those changes as he did."

Williams may no longer be with the Redskins, but his influence remains. Though Snyder let him go, the rest of Williams's staff remains. Greg Blache, Williams's top assistant, runs the defense, and though league sources said the relationship between the two is strained -- Blache agreed to take Williams's job before Williams had been informed he was being fired -- and they no longer speak, Williams praised the promotion of Blache and was proud his assistants got contract extensions in Washington.

"It couldn't have gone to a better person," Williams said of Blache. "He's been very successful in that position before, and was a top person I identified when I came to Washington of wanting to have. I think the Redskins did a tremendous job of promoting continuity there. And I do take great pride in the fact my staff is still there, and they will do an outstanding job in all the things they are responsible for. That's something [Redskins Coach] Jim Zorn does not have to worry about."

Williams and Blache may not exchange pleasantries Thursday, but there will be plenty of hugs before the game. Williams has not talked to Gibbs in months, but remains in regular contact with many of the defensive players and staff. Bonds go beyond football (when defensive end Phillip Daniels suffered a season-ending knee injury on the first day of camp last month, one of the first calls to his cell came from Williams), and they continue to share life and family experiences.

The crux of the defensive roster was brought in on Williams's watch, and although Blache is streamlining the system, Williams's terminology and many of his philosophies still apply.

"I still talk to [Williams], a lot of the guys still talk to him," said cornerback Shawn Springs, who found refuge in Williams's office last season when his father, Ron, suddenly fell into a life-threatening coma. "But yeah, we miss him, too. Gregg is a great father figure, a great guy to talk to, and somebody I shared a lot of things with."

Linebacker Marcus Washington said: "Gregg definitely leaves a legacy behind here. We learned a lot about football and different concepts from him and tried to play with his attitude, where he's always ready to go and is very aggressive. His leadership definitely reflected our attitude, and he passed that down, and now we're just building off of it."

Safeties coach Steve Jackson and secondary coach Jerry Gray played and coached for Williams, with their coaching identities very much forged by him. "Transition is a big part of this game," Jackson said, "but people have friendships and relationships, and those transcend the business."

Players and coaches campaigned for Williams to get Gibbs's job, and at the time of his departure, Williams's agent, Marvin Demoff, raised concerns about ESPN reports citing anonymous Redskins sources that Williams had disparaged Gibbs during the interview process, calling them a "smear." During his exit interview, both Snyder and Cerrato told Williams they had nothing to do with the ESPN stories, Williams said. Snyder and Cerrato declined to comment for this story.

Snyder's choice to promote Cerrato to the top football position a few weeks after Gibbs's retirement signaled to many within Redskins Park the end of Williams's candidacy to become head coach. Several team sources said there was friction between the men. Williams, however, thanked Cerrato for taking an interest in his family, attending some of his son's high school football games, and wished him well in his new position.

"Every year that Vinny has been there Dan Snyder has given him more and more to do," Williams said, "and now it's his time to step up there and take the reigns and show the Redskins fans that he's able to handle every aspect of the organization. That's what his title says he's able to do there, and I appreciate the relationship I had with Vinny when I was there."

Williams lauded Jack Del Rio, Jacksonville's head coach, and the personnel department. Since leaving Washington, Williams also has focused on his foundation -- GreggWilliamsFoundation.com -- and on his new team.

He reviewed every snap of Jacksonville's 2007 season, learned the Jaguars' terminology and adapted his defense to that verbal framework. He eliminated about two-thirds of the existing scheme and incorporated some of his ideas.

Living on the beach in Florida with Blake is great, but being away from his wife, Leigh Ann, and Chase is not easy (Williams's daughter, Amy, is entering her freshman year at Belmont University in Nashville). The family did not put its home on the market, with Chase thriving on the field and in the classroom (he is being eyed by NCAA powerhouses) and Williams on a one-year contract in Jacksonville.

Should the right opportunity emerge, Williams would consider being a head coach again (he coached Buffalo from 2001 to 2003). And Williams said he would not hesitate to answer the phone should Snyder reach out to him.

"I'll always remember the time I had there, and who knows, maybe I'll be back there again one of these days to coach again," Williams said. "I have a very good relationship with Dan Snyder, and I really enjoyed my time there, and I wouldn't discount saying I could come back through there again. I've got a lot of good years left in the NFL, and I loved my experience there and loved the Redskins and loved the Redskins' fans. It was a great experience, and to see it unfold again, well, you never know what can happen in this league."

 

[saintfool]

In a word, yes. Moss is healthy for the first time since 2005. Randle El is a bigger part of this offense than he ever has been before - I've compared his role to Welker's , though he won't match Welker's stats.

I've also said Cooley and Portis are the surest bets on the team to repeat their stats from prior years.

ARE can be had pretty cheap. Even a 10% increase in production makes him a nice bye week filler and with upside to do more.

 

[T Bell]

In a word, yes. Moss is healthy for the first time since 2005. Randle El is a bigger part of this offense than he ever has been before - I've compared his role to Welker's , though he won't match Welker's stats.

I've also said Cooley and Portis are the surest bets on the team to repeat their stats from prior years.

ARE can be had pretty cheap. Even a 10% increase in production makes him a nice bye week filler and with upside to do more.

I agree. ARE is the best value based upon ADP on this team. If you start 3 WR's I think he's tremendous value in a PPR league as your WR3.

 

[fatness]

Goode Released; Verdun-Wheeler Back

Goode, a 6-3, 238-pound tight end out of Maryland, has turf toe. Verdun-Wheeler returns to bolster the linebacker numbers, with Marcus Washington resting his hip a bit last week.

"Thank you for scoring our only offensive touchdown in the last 2 weeks. You're released."

 

[dgreen]

Makes me about what could have been with Sean Taylor.

Yep. When playing Madden, I pretty much only use Taylor on D. I make some awesome plays with im, making me think how awesome he was. Then I get bummed that I'll never see him play again.

 

[fatness]

You know things suck when there's no posts in this thread for 2 days.

Last 3 quarters: 71-6

 

[dgreen]

Trying to figure out a 53-man roster. Here's 52:

QB - Campbell, Collins, Brennan

RB - Portis, Betts, Cartwright

FB - Sellers

WR - Moss, ARE, Thomas, Kelly, Thrash

TE - Cooley, Davis, Yoder

OL - Samuels, Jansen, Kendall, Thomas, Rabach, Heyer, Fabini, Rinehart, Wade, Crummey

DL - Taylor, Carter, Golston, Griffin, Wilson, Evans, Alexander, Montgomery

LB - Fletcher, Washington, McIntosh, Campbell, Blades, Fincher

CB - Rogers, Springs, Smoot, Torrence, Westbrook

S - Landry, Doughty, Moore, Horton, Hamilton

K - Suisham

P - Brooks

LS - Albright

That leaves one spot for Mason, a 6th WR, or maybe even a 9th DL. Personally, I might lean towards a 9th DL (either James or Boschetti). Realistically, I see them carrying a 6th WR, who is probably McMullen.

 

[T Bell]

You know things suck when there's no posts in this thread for 2 days.Last 3 quarters: 71-6

 

[buster c]

Trying to figure out a 53-man roster. Here's 52:QB - Campbell, Collins, BrennanRB - Portis, Betts, CartwrightFB - SellersWR - Moss, ARE, Thomas, Kelly, ThrashTE - Cooley, Davis, YoderOL - Samuels, Jansen, Kendall, Thomas, Rabach, Heyer, Fabini, Rinehart, Wade, CrummeyDL - Taylor, Carter, Golston, Griffin, Wilson, Evans, Alexander, MontgomeryLB - Fletcher, Washington, McIntosh, Campbell, Blades, FincherCB - Rogers, Springs, Smoot, Torrence, WestbrookS - Landry, Doughty, Moore, Horton, HamiltonK - SuishamP - BrooksThat leaves one spot for Mason, a 6th WR, or maybe even a 9th DL. Personally, I might lean towards a 9th DL (either James or Boschetti). Realistically, I see them carrying a 6th WR, who is probably McMullen.

Fot the final spot, I think you forgot #71 Albright as the LS. I went last night, and it was ugliness. I suspect that Carolina and Jax - expansion twins - are simply strong teams with realistic playoff chances. There is a striking difference in size between the Jax DL and ours. And it was nice to see that Gregggg was surrounded by many of his former players after the game. I neglected to see if Andre Blatch's dad made his way over to shake his hand. I think the Skins will take a step back to 6-8 wins. Your roster projection is a good one dgreen, with these exceptions:Westbrook is not good enough to play in the NFL, despite his DNA. I'd rather them keep #40, Richardson. He did get toasted on a TD, but he is around the ball and is very aggressive.Wade is done. #68 Geissinerger is worth a roster spot, and I'd put #63 Washington and #62 Clark on the taxi squad.Too bad there's no room for #73, Bishoetti. He is big and plays to the end of every play. If they cut Griff for him, I would not be upset.I liked the way that #56 Gatewood played. He should push 7-year vet K.Campbell for a spot. #51 Verdun, who they signed this week, got taken out of most plays. #97, the dude from MD, seemed like he had good potential. Hell, we should rebuild the LB's with youth and take a long look at discarding M.Washington and keeping one of these young pups. Keep Fletcher around as a mentor.Devon Thomas should be cut - he can't play - but they'll probably not get around to that until 2010 due to his draft position. Vinny screwed the pooch with his 2nd round blunders. Davis looks to be the best of the lot, and he'll be burried behind Cooley (whose neck just about twisted off watching the pom pom girls last night).

 

[dgreen]

Trying to figure out a 53-man roster. Here's 52:QB - Campbell, Collins, BrennanRB - Portis, Betts, CartwrightFB - SellersWR - Moss, ARE, Thomas, Kelly, ThrashTE - Cooley, Davis, YoderOL - Samuels, Jansen, Kendall, Thomas, Rabach, Heyer, Fabini, Rinehart, Wade, CrummeyDL - Taylor, Carter, Golston, Griffin, Wilson, Evans, Alexander, MontgomeryLB - Fletcher, Washington, McIntosh, Campbell, Blades, FincherCB - Rogers, Springs, Smoot, Torrence, WestbrookS - Landry, Doughty, Moore, Horton, HamiltonK - SuishamP - BrooksThat leaves one spot for Mason, a 6th WR, or maybe even a 9th DL. Personally, I might lean towards a 9th DL (either James or Boschetti). Realistically, I see them carrying a 6th WR, who is probably McMullen.

Fot the final spot, I think you forgot #71 Albright as the LS.

Oh, thanks. I had accounted for Albright, but forgot to list him. There are only 51 players above.

Westbrook is not good enough to play in the NFL, despite his DNA. I'd rather them keep #40, Richardson. He did get toasted on a TD, but he is around the ball and is very aggressive.

I've thought Westbrook has looked good ST, both returning kicks and on coverage. But, it's not like I'd be shocked if Richardson makes it over Westbrook.

Wade is done. #68 Geissinerger is worth a roster spot, and I'd put #63 Washington and #62 Clark on the taxi squad.

I'll admit that I put in Wade simply because he's a vet that I'm familiar with. I've read he could be on the bubble and won't be surprised to see someone else make it.

Too bad there's no room for #73, Bishoetti. He is big and plays to the end of every play. If they cut Griff for him, I would not be upset.

Boschetti is a hard worker with less talent. To me, he's like Mason in that it would nice to find a place for him on the Active Roster, but that just may not work out.

Devon Thomas should be cut - he can't play - but they'll probably not get around to that until 2010 due to his draft position. Vinny screwed the pooch with his 2nd round blunders. Davis looks to be the best of the lot, and he'll be burried behind Cooley (whose neck just about twisted off watching the pom pom girls last night).

I've been extremely disappointed with Thomas in the little amount he's played. He's invisible on the field. But, no chance he gets cut.

 

[fatness]

This year has the potential to be ugly, very ugly.

Jason Taylor was in the owner's box last night, not on the field. Remember the days of Arrington being in the owner's box, and there being a fast track around the coach directly to the owner for star players, which undercut coaches here? That's starting again.

Zorn will have to stop, immediately, his spelling out to the press of what individual players did wrong on plays. Those are things you discuss with players, away from the public. Zorn does not have anything near the full support of the team; he has yet to show he can lead them. When they go through some tough losses (as they're likely to do early and often this year) the team will be looking to him to lead them out of it, not to take them apart individually to the public. Zorn also opens himself up to being criticized in public by anonymous players if he continues this. If he's a 10-year veteran coach maybe he can get away with it. He's a rookie, untested, and the team does not see him as a leader yet. They see him as a nice guy, and that will change quickly with public finger pointing.

The years of neglect of the offensive and defensive lines, and leaving it up to the talents of the coaches and luck to put starting-quality performances on the field out of average players, is going to show up in an frequent, ugly way this year. Their lines will periodically get taken apart by opponents, especially the offensive line. Jansen is not a starting-quality tackle any more, and they have exactly no one to replace him. They'll need someone, too, since he'll get hurt. His former replacement, Wade, is always hurt and will get cut. Remember the "let's make Wade our starting guard" attempt last year? That's the genius behind putting together personnel for both lines. Jason Campbell may never have time to set up and throw this year. He may well get ruined like Ramsey did from the beatings.

Boschetti and Mason should make the team. They're not a playoff contender despite what Dan and Vinnie have said, far from it. The draft guaranteed that that would not be the case. They neglected their needs. Fred Davis is the best of the 3 rookies so far and surprisingly is blocking well too. Kelly and Thomas have been hurt to much to be up to NFL speed yet. I don't blame them, I think they're both talented and will eventually be starters. But they're not able to contribute much yet at WR, and they can't play O-line or D-line.

5-11

Many injuries among older players.

Being thoroughly outplayed by quality opponents.

Dissension.

Waiting for the season to end.

I want to be wrong but that's what I see for this season.

 

[dgreen]

Zorn will have to stop, immediately, his spelling out to the press of what individual players did wrong on plays. Those are things you discuss with players, away from the public. Zorn does not have anything near the full support of the team; he has yet to show he can lead them. When they go through some tough losses (as they're likely to do early and often this year) the team will be looking to him to lead them out of it, not to take them apart individually to the public. Zorn also opens himself up to being criticized in public by anonymous players if he continues this. If he's a 10-year veteran coach maybe he can get away with it. He's a rookie, untested, and the team does not see him as a leader yet. They see him as a nice guy, and that will change quickly with public finger pointing.

But, but, but, he's being praised by the media for this. The media can't stop gushing over how honest and open Zorn is. The media just knows that they have a right to know everything that's going on. How dare a coach not share certain things with the media.I'm starting to really worry about Campbell. His decisions are extremely slow. I couldn't believe Madden was initially putting the blame on Thomas for that INT last night. Sure, Thomas could've (and should've) done more, but Campbell was way too late with that throw. I think he pumped/patted the ball twice before throwing. Madden correctly put the blame on Campbell a little later in the telecast.

 

[fatness]

Zorn says Jansen will have the chance to compete (with Heyer) for the starting tackle job.

 

[dgreen]

Zorn says Jansen will have the chance to compete (with Heyer) for the starting tackle job.

Um, when? In practice? Shouldn't they have this figured out by now?

 

[fatness]

But, but, but, he's being praised by the media for this. The media can't stop gushing over how honest and open Zorn is.

Yes, but it was preseason, and you can do things like that in preseason and give the public (and the players) a gauge on how players are doing. It hurts nothing then. But in a week leading up to a regular season game it hurts the team, and he needs to learn that his honesty should stay inside the locker room and coach's office. He'll have players bailing on him in 3-4 weeks if he doesn't.

 

[fatness]

Um, when? In practice? Shouldn't they have this figured out by now?

I assume he means when Jansen is recovered from his injury. It's big news really, Jansen is no longer guaranteed his starting job. That was from last night's press conference I believe.

 

[dgreen]

Um, when? In practice? Shouldn't they have this figured out by now?

I assume he means when Jansen is recovered from his injury. It's big news really, Jansen is no longer guaranteed his starting job. That was from last night's press conference I believe.

I agree it's big news. I assumed Jansen didn't play last night simply because it was preseason. My assumption was that if it was a regular season game, he would have been healthy enough to play. So, I think Jansen is "recovered from his injury." Am I mistaken? Is he expected to miss the opener for injury reasons?

 

[fatness]

I don't know that answer at the moment.

From Michael Wilbon today.

Are the players, who aren't nearly as easily impressed by coaches as they will spin it for the microphones and notebooks, confident that Zorn knows what he's doing? Or are they, and for that matter is he, shaken by what's happened the last two weeks?

If the Redskins go to Giants Stadium and get blown out, we will all say we should have seen it coming. If they go up and knock off the champs to start the season, we (I certainly) will remind anybody who will listen that the preseason is a barometer of nothing.

 

[fatness]

News from JLC

No lack of news coming from Jim Zorn's press conference. Hmm, where to start...

Right tackle Jon Jansen is fighting for his job with Stephon Heyer. Zorn made it very clear that Jansen is in a battle and could be replaced by Heyer at some point. Jansen is the longest-serving Redskin player and received a big new contract after the 2006 season. Jansen has struggled in pass protection and Heyer was hurt but played well Thursday night, earning a lot of praise from Zorn.

Even if Jansen gets healthy - and Zorn said it's not certain that his foot will allow him to play next week - Heyer is pushing him.

Rookie WR Malcolm Kelly, who has a swollen knee, could end up on the injured reserve list and be out for the entire season. He's not in a position to help the team any time soon and Zorn said IR and the physically unable to perform list (which would buy the Skins six weeks to get him right) are options, as is the chance (seemingly remote to me) that Kelly is active Thursday. Zorn said the trainers will have a big voice in this decision as well.

The Skins will not make their roster public until Saturday's 4 p.m. deadline. Marcus Mason is not a lock at this point, but WR Billy McMullen essentially is, Zorn intimated.

Jason Taylor may end up needing to rest in Week 1 and try to come back for Week 2, but Zorn is not sure yet.

Starting FS LaRon Landry is supposed to practice fully this week after missing all of camp with a hamstring problem. Zorn is "hoping" that Landry will be full go against the Giants, but after missing so much time I'm not sure that's possible.

Todd Wade's ankle should allow him to practice this week, Zorn said, but the coach had no update yet on S Kareem Moore's hamstring.

 

[fatness]

Elfin's blog

Jon Jansen, the longest-tenured Redskin, was surprised to hear that coach Jim Zorn jsut said that he and second-year man Stephon Heyer are battling to start at right tackle.

"I don't know what to say," Jansen said. "I gues it means I'm in a fight for my position. I've felt I've done a good job this preseason. I didn't play very well against the Panthers, but neither did anybody else. Until then, I've had lot people in the organization tell me I was having the best camp I've ever had."

Asked if he thought his roster spot was in jeopardy, Jansen said he wasn't prepared to answer the question.

Jansen has not been in touch with reality. And what does "neither did anyone else" have to do with his performance?

 

[fatness]

Heyer's reaction

Second-year man Stephon Heyer was understandably pleased that coach Jim Zorn just said that he has a shot to unseat veteran right tackle Jon Jansen.

"I'm a little bit surprised," Heyer said. "I guess it's good for me."

 

[dgreen]

Elfin's blog

Jon Jansen, the longest-tenured Redskin, was surprised to hear that coach Jim Zorn jsut said that he and second-year man Stephon Heyer are battling to start at right tackle.

"I don't know what to say," Jansen said. "I gues it means I'm in a fight for my position. I've felt I've done a good job this preseason. I didn't play very well against the Panthers, but neither did anybody else. Until then, I've had lot people in the organization tell me I was having the best camp I've ever had."

Asked if he thought his roster spot was in jeopardy, Jansen said he wasn't prepared to answer the question.

Jansen has not been in touch with reality. And what does "neither did anyone else" have to do with his performance?

Without a quality explanation, that "neither did anyone else" comment is a little disturbing. We'll have to see how this works out.This reminds me of part of the 1987 Redskins America's Game show on the NFL Network. Training Camp starts and Jeff Bostic is no longer the starting center. He wasn't told by the coaches. He found out by seeing the depth chart posted on the bulletin board. His initial reaction was, of course, to be pissed off and he demanded a trade. Gibbs and Buges just kept telling him to stick with it. Through injuries, Bostic got his chance and was back on the field later in the season and was the regular starter for the next 4 seasons.

When I first heard that story, I was amazed that Gibbs and Buges didn't discuss this with Bostic beforehand. That just seemed wrong. Similarly, Jansen finding out through Zorn's PC seems wrong. Hopefully this works out like it did with Bostic.

 

[fatness]

Should Heyer earn the starting job one would have to wonder if Jansen would even make the team. If you're going for youth, why not go all the way? Jansen signed a five-year, $23 million contract extension before the '07 season. Why keep an expensive 32-year-old veteran around when you could use his roster spot for a less-costly youngster?

The cost of cutting him would be high, but not prohibitively so. He has about $6 million in unallocated bonus money from 2009-2011. Subtract his scheduled '09 salary of about $1.3 million and you'd have a $4.7 million dead cap hit for 2009. Against a cap of about $120 million, that's certainly doable.

While it's possible, releasing Jansen may not be such a good idea. His 2008 salary is just $730,000 and considering that his potential replacement would also cost at least $300,000, resulting in a savings of just over $400K.

That's not pocket change but it doesn't seem to be enough of a difference to justify whacking a guy who knows the system and who would be invaluable as a reserve. Who knows, maybe if he rides the pine for the first time in his life for a while he'll come back with a fire lit under him.

Then again, it's possible that he's just lost it. That wouldn't be the first time that happened to a 32-year old. The entire line has to be replaced over the next few years, why not start now?

Certainly such a move would represent Jim Zorn sending a message that there are no sacred cows—or rocks.

Rich Tandler

 

[Giantseasonticketholder]

This year has the potential to be ugly, very ugly. Jason Taylor was in the owner's box last night, not on the field. Remember the days of Arrington being in the owner's box, and there being a fast track around the coach directly to the owner for star players, which undercut coaches here? That's starting again. Zorn will have to stop, immediately, his spelling out to the press of what individual players did wrong on plays. Those are things you discuss with players, away from the public. Zorn does not have anything near the full support of the team; he has yet to show he can lead them. When they go through some tough losses (as they're likely to do early and often this year) the team will be looking to him to lead them out of it, not to take them apart individually to the public. Zorn also opens himself up to being criticized in public by anonymous players if he continues this. If he's a 10-year veteran coach maybe he can get away with it. He's a rookie, untested, and the team does not see him as a leader yet. They see him as a nice guy, and that will change quickly with public finger pointing. The years of neglect of the offensive and defensive lines, and leaving it up to the talents of the coaches and luck to put starting-quality performances on the field out of average players, is going to show up in an frequent, ugly way this year. Their lines will periodically get taken apart by opponents, especially the offensive line. Jansen is not a starting-quality tackle any more, and they have exactly no one to replace him. They'll need someone, too, since he'll get hurt. His former replacement, Wade, is always hurt and will get cut. Remember the "let's make Wade our starting guard" attempt last year? That's the genius behind putting together personnel for both lines. Jason Campbell may never have time to set up and throw this year. He may well get ruined like Ramsey did from the beatings.Boschetti and Mason should make the team. They're not a playoff contender despite what Dan and Vinnie have said, far from it. The draft guaranteed that that would not be the case. They neglected their needs. Fred Davis is the best of the 3 rookies so far and surprisingly is blocking well too. Kelly and Thomas have been hurt to much to be up to NFL speed yet. I don't blame them, I think they're both talented and will eventually be starters. But they're not able to contribute much yet at WR, and they can't play O-line or D-line.5-11Many injuries among older players.Being thoroughly outplayed by quality opponents.Dissension.Waiting for the season to end.I want to be wrong but that's what I see for this season.

Ironically, I just came in here to post the same thing...except for the last line.

 

[Ripleys]

Portis will save this team. That's all he's done since he came here.

 

[fatness]

That's something I forgot to include in my long negative post: the Redskins better run early and often this year. Portis is their best offensive player, the run game inspires more confidence in an O-line than does the passing game, the run game takes time off the clock to keep the defense off the field so much, Betts is one of the best backups in the league. I hope Zorn doesn't too much time in games trying to perfect the passing game when it's not working.

 

[fatness]

Long eulogy for the old Jon Jansen

Only recent history dictates that Jansen is injury prone, up until the last couple of seasons, Jansen fought through injuries including a case where he had a set of broken thumbs and was equipped with a pair of casts which transformed him into what looked like a Washington Redskins-themed rock ‘em sock ‘em robot. Even with that hampering injury, Jansen continued to play at a high level. Let me repeat that to let the degree of amazingness sink in: Jansen dominated the best defensive ends in the NFL without the use of his hands. It’s really a shame to see such a talented guy have his talent slip on the stairs and plummet to the cellar, and my dismay is exponentially greater since Jansen is one of my favorite players. He may not be the worst in the NFL, but his days of being the unquestionable starter are memories of the past. Jansen has looked tired and utterly defeated at times and he hasn’t even played a full four quarters of football consecutively yet.

The aforementioned denial could take several forms in this case, but the most apparent one is the go to “Give him time, he’s just recovering from an injury and getting into game shape” excuse that most fans are using to shield themselves from the truth. The reality of Jansen’s steady decline in talent has been swept under the rug of denial for the past couple of years, but in that last display of futility that was the Carolina pre-season game, the rug was thrown off and whatever was under it bit me on the leg; Jansen isn’t who he used to be. Carolina tee’d off on the the Redskins’ o-line and I was concerned for Campbell’s safety in the pocket (seeing Collins on the depth chart will quickly spread that concern to those fans that didn’t possess it). Each time the ball was snapped, the Redskins’ o-line was consistently pushed back, obviously over-matched and down right embarrassing. Campbell, on average, had three seconds to get rid of the ball and the running game was largely neglected and in the end regarded as a joke. Running plays rarely, if ever, get a first down after two consecutive plays resulting in lost yardage. Being able to pick out Jansen as the obvious worst player of a unit that instilled nausea in me just by watching them speaks volumes to how he’s playing now.

Looking back, this shouldn’t be all that surprising. Each of the last few times Jansen attempted to return from injuries, he garnered concern from fans who saw who they thought was the same man, but was only living up to a fraction of his ability. It looks like this last batch of injuries only spurred the attrition of talent that all NFL players have to deal with. I’m still going to miss what seeing number 76 on the right side of the line meant to me, though.

 

[fatness]

WR Malcolm Kelly, who has done nothing but disappoint since the Redskins drafted him in the second round earlier this season, has a badly swollen knee and he might not play at all this season. Zorn indicated that Kelly would be no help for some time and the Physically Unable to Perform List [6 weeks] or Injured Reserve [all season] are definite options for him.

DC Sports Report

 

[dgreen]

That's something I forgot to include in my long negative post: the Redskins better run early and often this year. Portis is their best offensive player, the run game inspires more confidence in an O-line than does the passing game, the run game takes time off the clock to keep the defense off the field so much, Betts is one of the best backups in the league. I hope Zorn doesn't too much time in games trying to perfect the passing game when it's not working.

Their plan has to be to heavily lean on Portis next Thursday, right? I mean, Zorn can't possibly think they're going to go into NY and pitch it all over the place?

 

[Marvelous]

Trying to figure out a 53-man roster. Here's 52:QB - Campbell, Collins, BrennanRB - Portis, Betts, CartwrightFB - SellersWR - Moss, ARE, Thomas, Kelly, ThrashTE - Cooley, Davis, YoderOL - Samuels, Jansen, Kendall, Thomas, Rabach, Heyer, Fabini, Rinehart, Wade, CrummeyDL - Taylor, Carter, Golston, Griffin, Wilson, Evans, Alexander, MontgomeryLB - Fletcher, Washington, McIntosh, Campbell, Blades, FincherCB - Rogers, Springs, Smoot, Torrence, WestbrookS - Landry, Doughty, Moore, Horton, HamiltonK - SuishamP - BrooksLS - AlbrightThat leaves one spot for Mason, a 6th WR, or maybe even a 9th DL. Personally, I might lean towards a 9th DL (either James or Boschetti). Realistically, I see them carrying a 6th WR, who is probably McMullen.

It looks like McMullen will make it and Kelley will go on PUP or IR.They won't keep 10 OL. Geislinger (sp?) is likely to make the team. Wade is definately on the bubble. I doubt Crummey makes it. I though Tyron was a lock until I saw the game last night. If he has potential, he will make the team. I doubt Westbrook makes the team.James and Wilson are likely battling for the same roster spot.The punter competition looks close. If no one else has been practicing being the holder, Frost will win it. It's a little late to be breaking in a new holder at this point.Anthony Mix was getting accolade left and right in the offseason and he is now an afterthought.Mason is a nice player, but like someone said, 3rd string running backs are a dime a dozen. Unless you think he is 2nd string potiential or a special teams stud, it's not that compelling to keep him.

 

[fatness]

Their plan has to be to heavily lean on Portis next Thursday, right? I mean, Zorn can't possibly think they're going to go into NY and pitch it all over the place?

I have no idea how he'll coach in a real game. I bet he doesn't either.

 

[dallas428]

Bump for u foreskin fans...i know you dont like the thread falling below the boys.....

OHHHH....ME SO ZORNNNNIIIIEEEE!!!!...lol...should be a fun season...giddy up!!!

Couple questions for those in the know?...obviously...you need a qb...tatum has pimped jason for a couple years now but seriously...can anyone make a case for this guy other then umm say ummm maybe tatum...lol...and who do you think will be coaching the indians next season?....ill hang up and listen... <_<

 

[thayman]

Bump for u foreskin fans...i know you dont like the thread falling below the boys.....OHHHH....ME SO ZORNNNNIIIIEEEE!!!!...lol...should be a fun season...giddy up!!!Couple questions for those in the know?...obviously...you need a qb...tatum has pimped jason for a couple years now but seriously...can anyone make a case for this guy other then umm say ummm maybe tatum...lol...and who do you think will be coaching the indians next season?....ill hang up and listen... <_<

We will see how Campbell does this year. I think he has all the tools, how he responds from his injury last year, and how he plays behind what I will think is a mediocre OL.Zorn will have at least two or three years depending on how the team does this year. An implosion is possible, but probably no more likely than Dallas imploding with Owens and Jones there.

 

[dallas428]

Keep Hope Alive bro...I'll backflip from the Capital Dome if ZORNIEEEE is back for a second season...much less a third...good luck with that...OHHHH...ME SO ZORNIIIIEEEE!!!!

 

[dallas428]

oh yea...you guys wouldnt have made the playoffs last year if jason hadnt got hurt...seriously...think about it

 

[valhallan]

Gotta love the local Cowboys fans...

 

[thayman]

oh yea...you guys wouldnt have made the playoffs last year if jason hadnt got hurt...seriously...think about it

who knows. All I do know is the Skins and the Cowboys had the same record in the playoffs last year.

 

[fatness]

Gotta love the local Cowboys fans...

They're "occasional" Cowboy fans. I didn't see too many of them during Dallas's last several games last year.

 

[Bizkiteer]

So far Wade, M. Mason and Frost have been cut.

 

[Sidewinder16]

So far Wade, M. Mason and Frost have been cut.

Where are you hearing this from?

 

[T Bell]

So far Wade, M. Mason and Frost have been cut.

Where are you hearing this from?

Shefter, as reported by PFT. It's not official from the team yet.

 

[Sidewinder16]

So far Wade, M. Mason and Frost have been cut.

Where are you hearing this from?

Shefter, as reported by PFT. It's not official from the team yet.

Cool. Thanks.

 

[fatness]

Now reported by JLC as well.

There's also scrolling news at redskins.com.

 

[Ripleys]

wow, I bet someone takes a chance on Mason and Frost.

 

[fatness]

From the Official Team Cuts thread (I think Andy Herron posted it)

Redskin cuts: DTs Matthias Askew and Ryan Boschetti, FB Nehemiah Broughton, Ts Devin Clark, Todd Wade and Tavares Washington, Gs Andrew Crummey and Fred Matua, QB Derek Devine, P Derrick Frost, WRs Horace Gant, Maurice Mann, Billy McMullen and Anthony Mix, LBs Curtis Gatewood, David Holloway and Danny Verdun-Wheeler, CBs Cedrick Holt, Matterral Richardson and Byron Westbrook, S Patrick Ghee and RB Marcus Mason.

Geisinger makes the team. So does Tryon. Nobody left at RB and FB except Portis, Betts, Cartwright, and Sellers.

 

[Ripleys]

looks about right to me.

 

[Marvelous]

From the Official Team Cuts thread (I think Andy Herron posted it)

Redskin cuts: DTs Matthias Askew and Ryan Boschetti, FB Nehemiah Broughton, Ts Devin Clark, Todd Wade and Tavares Washington, Gs Andrew Crummey and Fred Matua, QB Derek Devine, P Derrick Frost, WRs Horace Gant, Maurice Mann, Billy McMullen and Anthony Mix, LBs Curtis Gatewood, David Holloway and Danny Verdun-Wheeler, CBs Cedrick Holt, Matterral Richardson and Byron Westbrook, S Patrick Ghee and RB Marcus Mason.

Geisinger makes the team. So does Tryon. Nobody left at RB and FB except Portis, Betts, Cartwright, and Sellers.

I thought McMullen made the team.If they qualify, my guess is Crummey, Mann, Mason, Gatewood, and Westbrook are signed to the practice squad.