****OFFICIAL 2008 Washington Redskins Thread**** (1 Viewer)

[fatness]

I think it's delusional to believe he is not a problem. Look, he's had what? 40 starts? At what point do you think he'll "get it?" I defy you to show me a QB who has found success after showing so little for such an extended period of time.

Mr. Snyder and Vinnie will certainly have open ears for your opinion. Change the hood ornament, leave the drivetrain the same, it's the easy thing to do, it's the glitzy thing to do, that'll fix it.Right. Like every other year.

 

[fatness]

Best photo I've seen yet of the Skins-Eagles game (though I wish it had been taken a split second later when Landry hit him).

 

[fatness]

T Bell? Where did this guy go? New alias?

redman==>T Bell==>Mr.Capicollo==>[to be determined]

 

[fatness]

As far as Campbell, I think he is part of the problem with scoring. He's not the only part, but he is definitely a part of it. I would rather they not re-sign him and let him play for the extension. If it turns into a romo situation, then so be it, I'm not feeling confident enough to want to lock in now.

You might not be aware of this. NFL QB rankings14. Eli Manning

17. Jason Campbell

20. Jake Delhomme

21. Ben Roethlisberger

22. Kerry Collins

Campbell and the QB's of the 4 top teams in the league.

 

[dgreen]

Best photo I've seen yet of the Skins-Eagles game (though I wish it had been taken a split second later when Landry hit him).

He has that forearm cocked and ready.

 

[dgreen]

I have to say, my opinion on Jason Taylor's future has improved some. I don't like him coming back at an extremely high price tag, but I don't mind seeing him come back. He spent a lot of time in coverage yesterday and still ended up with 2 sacks, one arguably being the play of the game. I liked that he roamed around before the snap. He usually ended up spying Westbrook from those positions, but it was still nice to see something different.

For once, they generated decent pressure despite what seemed like very few blitzes. McNabb wasn't hounded or anything, but they actually got close to him with just a 4 man rush.

 

[fatness]

Best photo I've seen yet of the Skins-Eagles game (though I wish it had been taken a split second later when Landry hit him).

He has that forearm cocked and ready.

I wonder if I was the only one watching that play and thinking "Ken Houston and Walt Garrison".

 

[buster c]

I think it's pretty delusional to believe Campbell is a large part of the Redskins' problems.

I was in Cincy for the game and sat up high for the 1st quarter with my trusty Canon. Snapped wide-angle shots on just about every pass attempt - just like the coaches see. It was shocking to see actual evidence of what I have suspected all along: JC cannot process information on where to go with the ball. He just can't. So that causes him to hold the ball too long. I think it's delusional to believe he is not a problem. Look, he's had what? 40 starts? At what point do you think he'll "get it?" I defy you to show me a QB who has found success after showing so little for such an extended period of time.

Just off the top of my head, here are three: Dan Fouts; Rich Gannon; Vinnie Testaverde. It didn't take Drew Brees 40 starts, but he was pretty awful for his first two years (in the same system) and lots of people had written him off, including his own team which drafted Rivers. Eli, this time a year ago, had some questioning whether the Giants should go in another direction at QB. Kurt Warner's another one, though his 40 starts came in a mix of the NFL, NFL Europe and the Arena league.

There are plenty of other examples of QB's who showed modest promise early on and who matured over time into good and even very good QB's as well. Kerry Collins is such an example. So are Trent Green and Matt Hasselbeck.

I'm convinced that there is no more demanding position/occupation in professional sports than playing QB in the NFL. Perhaps individual skills are more challenging here and there, but the physical, mental and emotional burden on NFL QB's is not matched anywhere else IMHO. We seem to ignore that when we talk about QB "busts", because I think some QB's just take a little longer than others. Any other position, I grant you, and 40 starts is more than enough to say definitively whether a player "has it" or doesn't, but with the QB, it's different or can be. Unfortunately, the demands of the salary cap and the win-now attitude of fans rarely affords QB's the luxury of working all the way through their learning curves. Campbell is frustrating because we still can't say definitively that he's going to ultimately be known as a good, average or bad QB, but that goes with the territory.

The bottom line is that it's not like the team is one QB away from being a Super Bowl champion. I say address the other issues and see if those improvements don't help Campbell over the hump. I suspect we haven't seen his best football yet, though I don't know exactly what that means.

off the top of my head, I think I can refute all 9 of these guys you list. I'll do some homework and throw out my rebuttal with facts.until then...c'mon man! anyone who watches JC should conclude that he is terribly indecisive with below average pocket presence. this is not somthing that is teachable on the NFL level. you better bring these skills to Sunday ball. Maybe Skins fans, having witnessed Patrick Ramsey, have such low standards that any mobility is good enough.

he's got a beautiful arm, and I think that is an asset that deludes many (I was initially guilty of this myself). but did you know he threw 0 deep balls in Cincy. and what? one yesterday?

to take a contrarian position, I'll offer this thought: I keep hearing that the Skin's OL & WR's are holding him back; I say that JC has a better line and skill position options than over half the NFL QB's. That he can't do anything with it is damning evidence to his abilities.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

I think it's pretty delusional to believe Campbell is a large part of the Redskins' problems.

I was in Cincy for the game and sat up high for the 1st quarter with my trusty Canon. Snapped wide-angle shots on just about every pass attempt - just like the coaches see. It was shocking to see actual evidence of what I have suspected all along: JC cannot process information on where to go with the ball. He just can't. So that causes him to hold the ball too long. I think it's delusional to believe he is not a problem. Look, he's had what? 40 starts? At what point do you think he'll "get it?" I defy you to show me a QB who has found success after showing so little for such an extended period of time.

Just off the top of my head, here are three: Dan Fouts; Rich Gannon; Vinnie Testaverde. It didn't take Drew Brees 40 starts, but he was pretty awful for his first two years (in the same system) and lots of people had written him off, including his own team which drafted Rivers. Eli, this time a year ago, had some questioning whether the Giants should go in another direction at QB. Kurt Warner's another one, though his 40 starts came in a mix of the NFL, NFL Europe and the Arena league.

There are plenty of other examples of QB's who showed modest promise early on and who matured over time into good and even very good QB's as well. Kerry Collins is such an example. So are Trent Green and Matt Hasselbeck.

I'm convinced that there is no more demanding position/occupation in professional sports than playing QB in the NFL. Perhaps individual skills are more challenging here and there, but the physical, mental and emotional burden on NFL QB's is not matched anywhere else IMHO. We seem to ignore that when we talk about QB "busts", because I think some QB's just take a little longer than others. Any other position, I grant you, and 40 starts is more than enough to say definitively whether a player "has it" or doesn't, but with the QB, it's different or can be. Unfortunately, the demands of the salary cap and the win-now attitude of fans rarely affords QB's the luxury of working all the way through their learning curves. Campbell is frustrating because we still can't say definitively that he's going to ultimately be known as a good, average or bad QB, but that goes with the territory.

The bottom line is that it's not like the team is one QB away from being a Super Bowl champion. I say address the other issues and see if those improvements don't help Campbell over the hump. I suspect we haven't seen his best football yet, though I don't know exactly what that means.

off the top of my head, I think I can refute all 9 of these guys you list. I'll do some homework and throw out my rebuttal with facts.until then...c'mon man! anyone who watches JC should conclude that he is terribly indecisive with below average pocket presence. this is not somthing that is teachable on the NFL level. you better bring these skills to Sunday ball. Maybe Skins fans, having witnessed Patrick Ramsey, have such low standards that any mobility is good enough.

he's got a beautiful arm, and I think that is an asset that deludes many (I was initially guilty of this myself). but did you know he threw 0 deep balls in Cincy. and what? one yesterday?

to take a contrarian position, I'll offer this thought: I keep hearing that the Skin's OL & WR's are holding him back; I say that JC has a better line and skill position options than over half the NFL QB's. That he can't do anything with it is damning evidence to his abilities.

honestly. i expected alot worse this season. He learned a very tough and brand new system very quickly. Obviously he is not totally comfortable in it yet. However, i am hoping they will give him another shot.

 

[fatness]

c'mon man! anyone who watches JC should conclude that he is terribly indecisive with below average pocket presence.

I don't agree with either of those.Campbell gets indecisive when 1) his first option is covered (which is usually the case when the first option is Cooley or Moss since they're always double covered) or 2) when the pocket is collapsing on him (which is quite frequently this year as you seem to have forgotten). When he has adequate time he's not so indecisive, unless by "indecisive" you mean "elects not to throw to closely-covered receivers".Campbell moves around in the pocket quite well and seems to "feel" the pressure fairly often before he's hit.I realize you think he should be replaced, and while I don't agree you're certainly as much a fan as I am and as entitled to an opinion. But your backup reasons for it are not convincing. It sounds more like frustration and blaming the most visible player.

 

[Bankerguy]

T Bell? Where did this guy go? New alias?

redman==>T Bell==>Mr.Capicollo==>[to be determined]

Actually it was:redman-Tatum Bell- T Bell-Mr. Capicollo-???I just hope he keeps his buddies up to speed. Maybe I need an alias....never had one.

 

[dgreen]

Maybe I need an alias....never had one.

Sure, we believe you.

 

[Bankerguy]

Maybe I need an alias....never had one.

Sure, we believe you.

I hate that dude.

 

[dgreen]

c'mon man! anyone who watches JC should conclude that he is terribly indecisive with below average pocket presence.

I don't agree with either of those.Campbell gets indecisive when 1) his first option is covered (which is usually the case when the first option is Cooley or Moss since they're always double covered)...

That's a big problem and I have no problem with using that to label him "terribly indecisive." Having your first read covered is going to happen in the NFL...a lot. He sometimes takes too long to decide whether he should stay with option 1 or move to option 2. We saw it on the very first play of the year. And, while it definitely improved compared to that one play, he still struggles now in week 17 to know when to move on to the next guy. I'm not sure there are many offensive lines that could give Campbell as much time as he wants to get to his third option. Even if he takes just a half second longer than other QBs to make that decision, it adds up and leads to sacks. Combine that with the OL problems the second half of the season and you get what we've got.

 

[fatness]

I'm not sure there are many offensive lines that could give Campbell as much time as he wants to get to his third option. Even if he takes just a half second longer than other QBs to make that decision, it adds up and leads to sacks. Combine that with the OL problems the second half of the season and you get what we've got.

I agree he's taking longer than he should at times. He's in his first year in a new offense under a new coach, and has handled that acceptably well for a young QB with no indication that he's hit some sort of ceiling beyond which he can't progress. He's protected the ball quite well even when under pressure, which has been frequently the second half of the year. Given the new offense, the new coach, the lack of receiving threats, the rookie WR's who have not stepped up, the below average and sometimes terrible O-line play, I think he's done quite well this year. Giving up on a young QB at this time is just impatience when he's performed the way he has. And impatience sinks this team, year after year. We denounce it in our owner and our GM, and then at the end of the season the fans join the bandwagon again with impatient quick fixes that seem attractive and will fail.

 

[fatness]

Maybe I need an alias....never had one.

Sure, we believe you.

I hate that dude.

That's why you're always welcome in Redskin discussion.

 

[dgreen]

I'm not sure there are many offensive lines that could give Campbell as much time as he wants to get to his third option. Even if he takes just a half second longer than other QBs to make that decision, it adds up and leads to sacks. Combine that with the OL problems the second half of the season and you get what we've got.

I agree he's taking longer than he should at times. He's in his first year in a new offense under a new coach, and has handled that acceptably well for a young QB with no indication that he's hit some sort of ceiling beyond which he can't progress. He's protected the ball quite well even when under pressure, which has been frequently the second half of the year. Given the new offense, the new coach, the lack of receiving threats, the rookie WR's who have not stepped up, the below average and sometimes terrible O-line play, I think he's done quite well this year. Giving up on a young QB at this time is just impatience when he's performed the way he has. And impatience sinks this team, year after year. We denounce it in our owner and our GM, and then at the end of the season the fans join the bandwagon again with impatient quick fixes that seem attractive and will fail.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying to move on from Campbell. In fact, I said to go ahead and extend his contract now for a modest price if they can (but I doubt Campbell would do that). I agree with you that you can win with him as long as other parts of the team are strong. We're Redskins fans. We're aware you can win with guys like Rypien and an old, broken down Doug Williams. I don't see anything better out there that's available at a cheap price.But, I currently don't believe Campbell is going to make huge strides in his personal game. Will he get better? Probably. A lot better? I'm not so sure. I don't believe in him as an individual. And that's fine. There aren't many guys that do ascend to greatness. I'm hoping for a Hasselbeck type ceiling, but not really expecting it. I'd be extremely happy with that.

 

[Mr Capicollo]

I think it's pretty delusional to believe Campbell is a large part of the Redskins' problems.

I was in Cincy for the game and sat up high for the 1st quarter with my trusty Canon. Snapped wide-angle shots on just about every pass attempt - just like the coaches see. It was shocking to see actual evidence of what I have suspected all along: JC cannot process information on where to go with the ball. He just can't. So that causes him to hold the ball too long. I think it's delusional to believe he is not a problem. Look, he's had what? 40 starts? At what point do you think he'll "get it?" I defy you to show me a QB who has found success after showing so little for such an extended period of time.

Just off the top of my head, here are three: Dan Fouts; Rich Gannon; Vinnie Testaverde. It didn't take Drew Brees 40 starts, but he was pretty awful for his first two years (in the same system) and lots of people had written him off, including his own team which drafted Rivers. Eli, this time a year ago, had some questioning whether the Giants should go in another direction at QB. Kurt Warner's another one, though his 40 starts came in a mix of the NFL, NFL Europe and the Arena league.

There are plenty of other examples of QB's who showed modest promise early on and who matured over time into good and even very good QB's as well. Kerry Collins is such an example. So are Trent Green and Matt Hasselbeck.

I'm convinced that there is no more demanding position/occupation in professional sports than playing QB in the NFL. Perhaps individual skills are more challenging here and there, but the physical, mental and emotional burden on NFL QB's is not matched anywhere else IMHO. We seem to ignore that when we talk about QB "busts", because I think some QB's just take a little longer than others. Any other position, I grant you, and 40 starts is more than enough to say definitively whether a player "has it" or doesn't, but with the QB, it's different or can be. Unfortunately, the demands of the salary cap and the win-now attitude of fans rarely affords QB's the luxury of working all the way through their learning curves. Campbell is frustrating because we still can't say definitively that he's going to ultimately be known as a good, average or bad QB, but that goes with the territory.

The bottom line is that it's not like the team is one QB away from being a Super Bowl champion. I say address the other issues and see if those improvements don't help Campbell over the hump. I suspect we haven't seen his best football yet, though I don't know exactly what that means.

off the top of my head, I think I can refute all 9 of these guys you list. I'll do some homework and throw out my rebuttal with facts.until then...c'mon man! anyone who watches JC should conclude that he is terribly indecisive with below average pocket presence. this is not somthing that is teachable on the NFL level. you better bring these skills to Sunday ball. Maybe Skins fans, having witnessed Patrick Ramsey, have such low standards that any mobility is good enough.

he's got a beautiful arm, and I think that is an asset that deludes many (I was initially guilty of this myself). but did you know he threw 0 deep balls in Cincy. and what? one yesterday?

to take a contrarian position, I'll offer this thought: I keep hearing that the Skin's OL & WR's are holding him back; I say that JC has a better line and skill position options than over half the NFL QB's. That he can't do anything with it is damning evidence to his abilities.

You sound as though you have your position on this and nothing will change your mind. I am interested in what your homework reveals about my last post. To address the last part of your reply, however, I'd offer this: I would agree that Moss and Cooley provide Campbell, in theory, with one of the better WR-TE combos in the league. The problem is that that Campbell's second WR option is very poor as Randle El is simply not a WR2, and Thomas and Kelly are still learning the position. This is a critical factor when talking about indecisiveness and moving on to second reads.

To make matters worse, the OL has gotten so bad with pass blocking that even when Campbell has time to look for secondary and tertiary reads, Cooley often has been kept in to block. I flatly disagree that the Redskins OL is better than half of the OL's in the league at pass protection. They're easily in the bottom 10 in that regard this year. That situation leaves Moss and . . . who, to throw to, exactly? I'm pretty sure that any QB in the league would be a little eager to give Moss a split second more to come open on a route if he knows that he's not got much else to look to.

Campbell certainly needs to keep improving, but I've had the opposite reaction to you in that I've seen improvement and think it will continue. He is by all accounts a diligent worker who has the respect of his teammates. I'd like to see him take more risks at times, but he's growing in the position. If you'd like to be cheered up about Campbell, here is a video breakdown of Campbell from earlier in the season to remind you of what he's done.

 

[dgreen]

To make matters worse, the OL has gotten so bad with pass blocking that even when Campbell has time to look for secondary and tertiary reads, Cooley often has been kept in to block.

I hear this a lot. I'd love to see a breakdown of how often Cooley stays in to block compared to other receiving TEs and Cooley in previous seasons (or even earlier this season). Along with that, I'm disturbed by something I noticed in preseason that still happens way too much, IMO. Cooley is sometimes on the sideline on 3rd downs in favor of a 4th WR. This makes no sense to me. There can be a 3rd and 5 and they'll take him off the field and put Thrash or Kelly on. Other than injury or complete exhaustion, I can't think one single scenario where Cooley should not be on the field, especially given their alternatives.

 

[Mr Capicollo]

To make matters worse, the OL has gotten so bad with pass blocking that even when Campbell has time to look for secondary and tertiary reads, Cooley often has been kept in to block.

I hear this a lot. I'd love to see a breakdown of how often Cooley stays in to block compared to other receiving TEs and Cooley in previous seasons (or even earlier this season). Along with that, I'm disturbed by something I noticed in preseason that still happens way too much, IMO. Cooley is sometimes on the sideline on 3rd downs in favor of a 4th WR. This makes no sense to me. There can be a 3rd and 5 and they'll take him off the field and put Thrash or Kelly on. Other than injury or complete exhaustion, I can't think one single scenario where Cooley should not be on the field, especially given their alternatives.

I've been a proponent all year long of more two-TE sets with Cooley and Davis. I love that formation because it's a strong running formation, but it also has a lot of receiving options on the field and because of the dual nature of TE's it disguises the play-call for the defense until after the snap. I realize that Davis may not have mastered the scheme enough early on to have run this offense, but Yoder is a passable receiver and this could have been run with him too while Davis got up to speed. I hope that this is one of the things that Zorn examines during the offseason.

 

[dgreen]

To make matters worse, the OL has gotten so bad with pass blocking that even when Campbell has time to look for secondary and tertiary reads, Cooley often has been kept in to block.

I hear this a lot. I'd love to see a breakdown of how often Cooley stays in to block compared to other receiving TEs and Cooley in previous seasons (or even earlier this season). Along with that, I'm disturbed by something I noticed in preseason that still happens way too much, IMO. Cooley is sometimes on the sideline on 3rd downs in favor of a 4th WR. This makes no sense to me. There can be a 3rd and 5 and they'll take him off the field and put Thrash or Kelly on. Other than injury or complete exhaustion, I can't think one single scenario where Cooley should not be on the field, especially given their alternatives.

I've been a proponent all year long of more two-TE sets with Cooley and Davis. I love that formation because it's a strong running formation, but it also has a lot of receiving options on the field and because of the dual nature of TE's it disguises the play-call for the defense until after the snap. I realize that Davis may not have mastered the scheme enough early on to have run this offense, but Yoder is a passable receiver and this could have been run with him too while Davis got up to speed. I hope that this is one of the things that Zorn examines during the offseason.

They've used it some the last two games. The downside of that formation is it takes Sellers off the field, unless they only go with one WR. They are a much more effective running team with Sellers on the field. The 4 WR, spread, Portis draw just isn't working anymore.

 

[Mr Capicollo]

To make matters worse, the OL has gotten so bad with pass blocking that even when Campbell has time to look for secondary and tertiary reads, Cooley often has been kept in to block.

I hear this a lot. I'd love to see a breakdown of how often Cooley stays in to block compared to other receiving TEs and Cooley in previous seasons (or even earlier this season). Along with that, I'm disturbed by something I noticed in preseason that still happens way too much, IMO. Cooley is sometimes on the sideline on 3rd downs in favor of a 4th WR. This makes no sense to me. There can be a 3rd and 5 and they'll take him off the field and put Thrash or Kelly on. Other than injury or complete exhaustion, I can't think one single scenario where Cooley should not be on the field, especially given their alternatives.

I've been a proponent all year long of more two-TE sets with Cooley and Davis. I love that formation because it's a strong running formation, but it also has a lot of receiving options on the field and because of the dual nature of TE's it disguises the play-call for the defense until after the snap. I realize that Davis may not have mastered the scheme enough early on to have run this offense, but Yoder is a passable receiver and this could have been run with him too while Davis got up to speed. I hope that this is one of the things that Zorn examines during the offseason.

They've used it some the last two games. The downside of that formation is it takes Sellers off the field, unless they only go with one WR. They are a much more effective running team with Sellers on the field. The 4 WR, spread, Portis draw just isn't working anymore.

I love Sellers as much as the next guy and I'm certainly not advocating two TE's on every play, but let's stop ourselves before we start talking like it's some sort of a priority to have a FB on the field when we're discussing our base offense.

 

[pablito]

Interesting story from Ross Tucker's article on SI.com...

Not all of the players really care if their team makes the playoffs.

It is strange, but true, and one of the secrets of the NFL I learned firsthand. It happened my rookie year, in 2001, under Redskins head coach Marty Schottenheimer. We were in the thick of the wild-card race coming down the stretch and I remarked to one of the veteran players about how awesome it would be if we could get in. He just shrugged.

"Don't you want to make the playoffs?" I asked.

"Nah, not really," he replied.

I was floored. I was a bright-eyed youngster loving every second of the NFL and his response brought me back to the harsh reality of the business. He went on to say he just wanted the season to be over so that he could head down to Florida for New Year's Eve. He showed up to the last game with a packed-to-the-gills U-Haul attached to his SUV. He was leaving right from the stadium, right after the game.

Any doubt that the player in question was Michael Westbrook??

 

[dgreen]

To make matters worse, the OL has gotten so bad with pass blocking that even when Campbell has time to look for secondary and tertiary reads, Cooley often has been kept in to block.

I hear this a lot. I'd love to see a breakdown of how often Cooley stays in to block compared to other receiving TEs and Cooley in previous seasons (or even earlier this season). Along with that, I'm disturbed by something I noticed in preseason that still happens way too much, IMO. Cooley is sometimes on the sideline on 3rd downs in favor of a 4th WR. This makes no sense to me. There can be a 3rd and 5 and they'll take him off the field and put Thrash or Kelly on. Other than injury or complete exhaustion, I can't think one single scenario where Cooley should not be on the field, especially given their alternatives.

I've been a proponent all year long of more two-TE sets with Cooley and Davis. I love that formation because it's a strong running formation, but it also has a lot of receiving options on the field and because of the dual nature of TE's it disguises the play-call for the defense until after the snap. I realize that Davis may not have mastered the scheme enough early on to have run this offense, but Yoder is a passable receiver and this could have been run with him too while Davis got up to speed. I hope that this is one of the things that Zorn examines during the offseason.

They've used it some the last two games. The downside of that formation is it takes Sellers off the field, unless they only go with one WR. They are a much more effective running team with Sellers on the field. The 4 WR, spread, Portis draw just isn't working anymore.

I love Sellers as much as the next guy and I'm certainly not advocating two TE's on every play, but let's stop ourselves before we start talking like it's some sort of a priority to have a FB on the field when we're discussing our base offense.

If I had to guess, I'd say the rushing stats are much better with Sellers on the field than with him off the field. My guess, again, would be that Portis is stuffed more often without Sellers than with Sellers. I wouldn't even be surprised to see that pass protection is better with Sellers than without Sellers.I think one problem with this offense is there is no base offense. There is no identity. The offense's success seem to come when the playcalling was catching defenses off guard. They feel they need to trick you in order to beat you. It's 3rd and 6 so we'll go spread formation and run a draw. It's 3rd and 1 so we'll go big and pass. It's 1st and goal from 1 so we'll pass then give it to our FB twice. That worked for a few weeks, but now we're left with an offense with no identity. There is nothing they're willing to throw out there and say, "This is who we are and what we'll beat you with." They switch personnel pretty much every offensive play. As I mentioned, Cooley will sometimes come off the field on a 3rd and 7.I'm not saying it's a priority to have a FB as part of the base offense. I'm saying it should be a priority to have Sellers as part of the base offense. Right now, if we had to win a game to make the playoffs, Sellers is playing 10x more snaps than Fred Davis.

 

[buster c]

c'mon man! anyone who watches JC should conclude that he is terribly indecisive with below average pocket presence.

I don't agree with either of those.Campbell gets indecisive when 1) his first option is covered (which is usually the case when the first option is Cooley or Moss since they're always double covered) or 2) when the pocket is collapsing on him (which is quite frequently this year as you seem to have forgotten). When he has adequate time he's not so indecisive, unless by "indecisive" you mean "elects not to throw to closely-covered receivers".Campbell moves around in the pocket quite well and seems to "feel" the pressure fairly often before he's hit.I realize you think he should be replaced, and while I don't agree you're certainly as much a fan as I am and as entitled to an opinion. But your backup reasons for it are not convincing. It sounds more like frustration and blaming the most visible player.

Most of the time I dig what you say, fatman, but we must be watching two different games. All I can tell you about my reasons are that it is what I see with my own two eyes. Like I said in another post, I took a bunch of photos from high up in Cincy and they all tell me what I am saying here: he does not see the field well. Therefore, he holds the ball longer than he should. Then the defense closes in on him. Been this way all year. No progress. No touchdowns. To sign this stiff to an extension would be the worst move to make. Remember, Rypien's best season in '91 came when he was playing for a new deal. Give JC his cash now and this is the best you'll see of him. Look back to my posts from this summer (okay, like anyone cares to do that ). I've been saying this all along, so it's not borne of frustration. I wish he was The Man. Is he 100% responsible? Not at all. ARE makes a decent slot receiver, but not a #2. A lot of teams have shaky #2's (look at every team in our division). The OL is struggling, I admit it is not above average, but Samuels can play and Heyer has his moments. Fabini & Kendall are solid enough. Jansen, Rabach & Thomas have fallen off the cliff. With Portis, Betts, Cooley, Sellers, Moss, and ARE, the weapons are above-average. The shame of it all is wasting a top 5 defense.

 

[TankRizzo]

Any doubt that the player in question was Michael Westbrook??

I'll see your Michael Westbrook and raise you Dan Wilkinson.

 

[foo]

GB the Skins missing the playoffs... Too bad they won 8 games though...

 

[dgreen]

Any doubt that the player in question was Michael Westbrook??

I'll see your Michael Westbrook and raise you Dan Wilkinson.

My first thought was actually Stubby, but he was already gone.Westbrook is certainly a candidate. I think "Florida" is a clue here.

 

[TankRizzo]

Any doubt that the player in question was Michael Westbrook??

I'll see your Michael Westbrook and raise you Dan Wilkinson.

My first thought was actually Stubby, but he was already gone.Westbrook is certainly a candidate. I think "Florida" is a clue here.

He was from Michigan though, unless there's a Florida connection somewhere that I totally missed. I'm now thinking it's Kenard Lang.

 

[dgreen]

Any doubt that the player in question was Michael Westbrook??

I'll see your Michael Westbrook and raise you Dan Wilkinson.

My first thought was actually Stubby, but he was already gone.Westbrook is certainly a candidate. I think "Florida" is a clue here.

He was from Michigan though, unless there's a Florida connection somewhere that I totally missed.

Yeah, I should have separated those two comments. They weren't meant to be linked.

I'm now thinking it's Kenard Lang.

Possible. Also, Marco Coleman.

 

[Mr Capicollo]

Any doubt that the player in question was Michael Westbrook??

I'll see your Michael Westbrook and raise you Dan Wilkinson.

My first thought was actually Stubby, but he was already gone.Westbrook is certainly a candidate. I think "Florida" is a clue here.

He was from Michigan though, unless there's a Florida connection somewhere that I totally missed. I'm now thinking it's Kenard Lang.

Wasn't Marco Coleman from Florida?

 

[TankRizzo]

Wasn't Marco Coleman from Florida?

Originally from Ohio, but he was drafted by the Dolphins, so it's a possibility too.

 

[dgreen]

Wasn't Marco Coleman from Florida?

Originally from Ohio, but he was drafted by the Dolphins, so it's a possibility too.

And he played in Jacksonville the following year.

 

[dgreen]

Oh, forgot to mention that I heard on the radio last night that the Redskins are 3 point DOGS at San Fran this week. Seriously? Ouch. That really hurts.

 

[Mr Capicollo]

Oh, forgot to mention that I heard on the radio last night that the Redskins are 3 point DOGS at San Fran this week. Seriously? Ouch. That really hurts.

That's called two teams with nothing in particular to play for, playing @ SF. I'm sure the line would be flipped were the game at FedEx.

 

[fatness]

Any doubt that the player in question was Michael Westbrook??

Here's the best I can do for a 2001 roster: Link

 

[fatness]

I think one problem with this offense is there is no base offense. There is no identity. The offense's success seem to come when the playcalling was catching defenses off guard. They feel they need to trick you in order to beat you. It's 3rd and 6 so we'll go spread formation and run a draw. It's 3rd and 1 so we'll go big and pass. It's 1st and goal from 1 so we'll pass then give it to our FB twice. That worked for a few weeks, but now we're left with an offense with no identity. There is nothing they're willing to throw out there and say, "This is who we are and what we'll beat you with." They switch personnel pretty much every offensive play. As I mentioned, Cooley will sometimes come off the field on a 3rd and 7.

I pretty much agree with that. I'd guess the reasons for it are Zorn's newness at playcalling, and the team not doing anything consistently well on offense when the defenses know it's coming. A better O-line solves some of that (yeah, I'm a broken record), as does more experience for Zorn.

 

[Marvelous]

I heard on the radio the Redskins only have 4 draft picks next year. I know they traded their 2nd for Taylor, but I don't recall where the others went.

Erasmus James

7th rounder - who cares? The big thing was the Jason Taylor trade, but I just hope he's back and healthy next year - he showed today what he can do if that's the case.

I care about a 7th round pick. Sometimes a 7th round pick turns into a decent role player. Othertimes, he turns into a really good player. The more you have, the more likely you are to find a player.

Statistically, there are far more UDFA's who turn into starters than there are 7th rounders who do. Honestly, trading away that pick doesn't bother me much at all. I liked the Erasmus James gamble for the price, even though it didn't end up paying off. The Taylor trade is more worrisome, especially if he retires and doesn't return, in which case what little we got out of him this year would have not remotely been worth what we gave up to get him.

More UDFAs become starters than 7th round picks simply because there are more UDFAs. The more shots you have, the more likely you are to find a player.I just think they should have had an inkling about James by the end of training camp and made a decision then. But who knows.

 

[fatness]

Eleven months after he was talked out of retirement by Redskins owner Daniel Snyder, defensive coordinator Greg Blache spoke enthusiastically today about returning for another year with his fourth-ranked defensive unit.

"And honestly, to be quite candid, this time of year is never a good time of year to make a decision, when you're tired," Blache said. "And that's what I did last year, I made a decision when I was tired. It's better for me to wait until I'm not, but right now, yeah, I'm up for it. I mean, it's been fun. Quite candidly, it's been fun. If I have this same quality of people to work with, it's easy to come to work every day."

Good news from Greg Blache.

 

[fatness]

Jason Campbell

"Everybody wants to talk about benching me and throwing me out the window, but there are only a couple of plays that I want back," he said Tuesday. "It's a tough city. When things are going great, people want to put you on a pedestal. When things go bad, they want to throw you under and remove you. But I've been through this before at Auburn, and I don't let that stuff distract me."

 

[southeastjerome]

Maybe I need an alias....never had one.

Sure, we believe you.

I hate that dude.

That's why you're always welcome in Redskin discussion.

Speaking of dallas428, he's due here to post anytime

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

look, you guys are gonna wash-rinse-repeat...a new coach is coming ...new players...you will start off great and finish like you should...why all the shock for a team that hasnt done anything in close to 20 years...face it...you kinda aint no good...ever....someone take the word playoffs out of the thread description...its embarrasing...good luck the next few years....and oh yea....OH ME SO ZORNIEOH ME SO ZORNIEenjoyedit: and tater...stop pimping cambell...he aint all that...average at best...same as the skins...a good fit i guess...

Hey DBAG please never post in a SKINS TOPIC AGAIN!!!!!! OH ROMO!!!!!

 

[buster c]

5:06 to play in the season, down 7

let's see what JC can do...

 

[buster c]

5:06 to play in the season, down 7let's see what JC can do...

hmmm. can we say that as a QB, he makes a nice RB ?

 

[fatness]

This season was about as satisfying as eating unsalted cardboard.

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

This season was about as satisfying as eating unsalted cardboard.

1st 8 games or 2nd?

 

[Ripleys]

I can't say I'm really happy with where Campbell is at...but he doesn't choke as much as Romo!

 

[fatness]

This season was about as satisfying as eating unsalted cardboard.

1st 8 games or 2nd?

The whole season, put together.

 

[dgreen]

5:06 to play in the season, down 7let's see what JC can do...

He did a nice job on that drive and may be a good step in the right direction for him. He's typically struggled in those situations.As we've talked about for weeks, the OL was poor in run blocking. (I thought they were ok in pass blocking, though.) Portis continually had to dodge a defender before getting the LOS.Martz was the star of this game. He called a nice game and had the Skins D off balance for much of it. If they had some talent at QB and WR, they could have scored 40.Disappointing end to a blah season.I look forward to the offseason thread and unrealistic optimism in August.

 

[Mr Capicollo]

I was at that game yesterday - I spent most of it sweating and peeling layers as it was unexpectedly warm, and we were sitting in the sun. Who knew in late December SF.

Portis' fumble and Moss' two consecutive dropped passes resulted directly in a TD for the 49'ers and killed what was shaping up to be a scoring drive for the Redskins, respectively. That's your ballgame right there. The defense also came up small in the last minute of the ballgame, but they couldn't generate pressure all day - no surprise there.

Campbell's not the problem on this team, like I've been saying. He can make plays if he gets any sort of help at all. Hopefully this is a year to build from.