What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

****OFFICIAL 2009 Off Season Washington Redskins Thread**** (1 Viewer)

fatness said:
Great article.
I'm bracing for the 'kill-the-messenger' JLC haters to emerge :hophead:
(I'm back to this alias for another 24 hours)That was a great article. Excellent analysis. They used nothing but objectively verifiable facts to make their fundamental points (though they augmented with some anonymous sources, but not greatly so) and the analysis was dead on. I've advocated building from the lines outward for years, rather than the opposite which is what they've been doing, and doing so primarily with the draft. The comparison to the Ravens was revealing, and poignantly so given the budding rivalry between the two franchises given their proximity. I have no problems with the article at all.
 
Great article, and I remember being pissed that the Skins didn't draft Gaither in the supplemental draft, especially when they could of had him in the 5th round!

 
Great article, and I remember being pissed that the Skins didn't draft Gaither in the supplemental draft, especially when they could of had him in the 5th round!
I didn't know much about Gaither, but my irritation with their draft approach regarding linemen goes all the way back to picking Michael Westbrook over Warren Sapp. :goodposting:
 
Great article, and I remember being pissed that the Skins didn't draft Gaither in the supplemental draft, especially when they could of had him in the 5th round!
I didn't know much about Gaither, but my irritation with their draft approach regarding linemen goes all the way back to picking Michael Westbrook over Warren Sapp. :lmao:
It's interesting tht you bring up that decision, because it predates Danny and Vinnie being in charge. That was Charlie Casserly and John Cooke, IIRC.Another thing, when do we show Joe Bugel the door? The dude is a great line coach, but he will be 69 years old in March. That's right, 69!!! Isn't it time we got a line coach and Assistant HC who was a little closer in age to his players, especially since the OL is going to be a total rebuilding project, no matter how you look at it? I know he's the "last link to the glory days of Gibbs I", but still...69?????
 
Great article, and I remember being pissed that the Skins didn't draft Gaither in the supplemental draft, especially when they could of had him in the 5th round!
I didn't know much about Gaither, but my irritation with their draft approach regarding linemen goes all the way back to picking Michael Westbrook over Warren Sapp. :coffee:
It's interesting tht you bring up that decision, because it predates Danny and Vinnie being in charge. That was Charlie Casserly and John Cooke, IIRC.Another thing, when do we show Joe Bugel the door? The dude is a great line coach, but he will be 69 years old in March. That's right, 69!!! Isn't it time we got a line coach and Assistant HC who was a little closer in age to his players, especially since the OL is going to be a total rebuilding project, no matter how you look at it? I know he's the "last link to the glory days of Gibbs I", but still...69?????
Buges isn't out tackling people, so as long as he has the energy and the passion to coach NFL linemen then he can stay there as far as I'm concerned. I've never heard anything but praise and respect from the linemen about him, so I still think he has his mojo. His only sin is too much loyalty to his vets, but Zorn seems immune from that and was willing to go against him on that regarding Jansen and Heyer, so I'm not concerned. As for the history, the neglect of the lines, particularly the d-line goes back 25 years. They've not drafted a d-lineman of any sort of significance since Charles Mann. 10 years into the Danny-Vinny era, however, you can no longer blame the prior regime, but it is an entrenched problem.
 
Mr Capicollo said:
Great article, and I remember being pissed that the Skins didn't draft Gaither in the supplemental draft, especially when they could of had him in the 5th round!
I didn't know much about Gaither, but my irritation with their draft approach regarding linemen goes all the way back to picking Michael Westbrook over Warren Sapp. :tinfoilhat:
It's interesting tht you bring up that decision, because it predates Danny and Vinnie being in charge. That was Charlie Casserly and John Cooke, IIRC.Another thing, when do we show Joe Bugel the door? The dude is a great line coach, but he will be 69 years old in March. That's right, 69!!! Isn't it time we got a line coach and Assistant HC who was a little closer in age to his players, especially since the OL is going to be a total rebuilding project, no matter how you look at it? I know he's the "last link to the glory days of Gibbs I", but still...69?????
Buges isn't out tackling people, so as long as he has the energy and the passion to coach NFL linemen then he can stay there as far as I'm concerned. I've never heard anything but praise and respect from the linemen about him, so I still think he has his mojo. His only sin is too much loyalty to his vets, but Zorn seems immune from that and was willing to go against him on that regarding Jansen and Heyer, so I'm not concerned.
I think age can be an asset here. Look around the league: Jim Johnson in Philly, Monte Kiffin in TB, Alex Gibbs in Den (& other places). these are old MFers. I see Buges coaching these guys up hard and with much energy - I don't think he's a problem at all. the issues with the OL are that the older vets are breaking down.
 
fatness said:
Great article.
I'm bracing for the 'kill-the-messenger' JLC haters to emerge :confused:
Well it won't be me because I think he's the best writer covering the Redskins, even when he's not popular or when he's wrong. The guy knows a lot and puts a significant amount of thought into his articles. He's got plenty of sources within the team, too; he just won't ever say who they are or they'll no longer be sources. And he understands that to build a solid team you start by building both lines.
 
Another thing, when do we show Joe Bugel the door? The dude is a great line coach, but he will be 69 years old in March. That's right, 69!!! Isn't it time we got a line coach and Assistant HC who was a little closer in age to his players, especially since the OL is going to be a total rebuilding project, no matter how you look at it? I know he's the "last link to the glory days of Gibbs I", but still...69?????
:lmao:Was that you who called Andy and Steve last night about Buges?
 
Another thing, when do we show Joe Bugel the door? The dude is a great line coach, but he will be 69 years old in March. That's right, 69!!! Isn't it time we got a line coach and Assistant HC who was a little closer in age to his players, especially since the OL is going to be a total rebuilding project, no matter how you look at it? I know he's the "last link to the glory days of Gibbs I", but still...69?????
:shrug:Was that you who called Andy and Steve last night about Buges?
Yep. :shrug: I don't understand why Buges is such a sacred cow. He's the one constant between the crappy Gibbs offenses and the crappy Zorn offense, other than the players themselves. Andy Poli was partly responsible for running Gibbs out of town last year but he won't even TALK about Bugel's shortcomings. Does Bugel have lifetime tenure with this team? They cut me off and laughed at me. At least Czabe was willing to consider the idea. But Polin's hatred of Danny/Vinnie is so all encompassing that everything that's wrong with the team is their fault.
 
DCThunder said:
Another thing, when do we show Joe Bugel the door? The dude is a great line coach, but he will be 69 years old in March. That's right, 69!!! Isn't it time we got a line coach and Assistant HC who was a little closer in age to his players, especially since the OL is going to be a total rebuilding project, no matter how you look at it? I know he's the "last link to the glory days of Gibbs I", but still...69?????
:lmao:Was that you who called Andy and Steve last night about Buges?
Yep. :lmao: I don't understand why Buges is such a sacred cow. He's the one constant between the crappy Gibbs offenses and the crappy Zorn offense, other than the players themselves. Andy Poli was partly responsible for running Gibbs out of town last year but he won't even TALK about Bugel's shortcomings. Does Bugel have lifetime tenure with this team? They cut me off and laughed at me. At least Czabe was willing to consider the idea. But Polin's hatred of Danny/Vinnie is so all encompassing that everything that's wrong with the team is their fault.
Wait, I thought Portis was another constant. Or Samuels. Or Cooley. I think you're way of the mark here, and it's not because I see any sacred cows there. I think Buges has done well with what he's had to work with, and I don't see age being a concern for a position coach. Jim Hanifan coached into his 70's, didn't he?
 
DCThunder said:
Another thing, when do we show Joe Bugel the door? The dude is a great line coach, but he will be 69 years old in March. That's right, 69!!! Isn't it time we got a line coach and Assistant HC who was a little closer in age to his players, especially since the OL is going to be a total rebuilding project, no matter how you look at it? I know he's the "last link to the glory days of Gibbs I", but still...69?????
:lmao:Was that you who called Andy and Steve last night about Buges?
Yep. :bye: I don't understand why Buges is such a sacred cow. He's the one constant between the crappy Gibbs offenses and the crappy Zorn offense, other than the players themselves. Andy Poli was partly responsible for running Gibbs out of town last year but he won't even TALK about Bugel's shortcomings. Does Bugel have lifetime tenure with this team? They cut me off and laughed at me. At least Czabe was willing to consider the idea. But Polin's hatred of Danny/Vinnie is so all encompassing that everything that's wrong with the team is their fault.
Wait, I thought Portis was another constant. Or Samuels. Or Cooley. I think you're way of the mark here, and it's not because I see any sacred cows there. I think Buges has done well with what he's had to work with, and I don't see age being a concern for a position coach. Jim Hanifan coached into his 70's, didn't he?
Joe Bugel was praised last year for putting together a decent offensive line despite all of the injuries.I don't know if he is the answer, but I don't think Buges is necessarily the problem.
 
What do you guys think of the Bruce Allen to Washington rumors? I am optimistically believing them. I could see Vinny stepping aside a little to take the heat off. I also think all they (Danny and Vinny) care about is winning. They just haven't figured out how. I can see them bringing someone else in to help them out. I like this part from JLC:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsi...len_rumors.html

Several sources who have worked for or with owner Daniel Snyder and/or Allen have said the men have much common ground and that Snyder has dabbled with hiring Allen in the past. They said that Allen's personality would be a good fit for Snyde.....Several sources who previously worked in Washington's front office thought it was a combination that makes sense and could see Snyder being interested in Allen - who previously worked as an agent and has steep history managing the salary cap as well.
 
Another thing, when do we show Joe Bugel the door? The dude is a great line coach, but he will be 69 years old in March. That's right, 69!!! Isn't it time we got a line coach and Assistant HC who was a little closer in age to his players, especially since the OL is going to be a total rebuilding project, no matter how you look at it? I know he's the "last link to the glory days of Gibbs I", but still...69?????
:lmao:Was that you who called Andy and Steve last night about Buges?
Yep. :lmao: I don't understand why Buges is such a sacred cow. He's the one constant between the crappy Gibbs offenses and the crappy Zorn offense, other than the players themselves. Andy Poli was partly responsible for running Gibbs out of town last year but he won't even TALK about Bugel's shortcomings. Does Bugel have lifetime tenure with this team? They cut me off and laughed at me. At least Czabe was willing to consider the idea. But Polin's hatred of Danny/Vinnie is so all encompassing that everything that's wrong with the team is their fault.
They were distracted by your comment regarding Buges having personnel input. Once you say one tiny thing that they may not agree with, they disregard everything else you said and focus on that one thing.
 
Sebowski said:
What do you guys think of the Bruce Allen to Washington rumors? I am optimistically believing them. I could see Vinny stepping aside a little to take the heat off. I also think all they (Danny and Vinny) care about is winning. They just haven't figured out how. I can see them bringing someone else in to help them out. I like this part from JLC:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsi...len_rumors.html

Several sources who have worked for or with owner Daniel Snyder and/or Allen have said the men have much common ground and that Snyder has dabbled with hiring Allen in the past. They said that Allen's personality would be a good fit for Snyde.....Several sources who previously worked in Washington's front office thought it was a combination that makes sense and could see Snyder being interested in Allen - who previously worked as an agent and has steep history managing the salary cap as well.
I have no problem adding a bona fide personnel guy to the front office, but the problem I have is that I don't know what role he would fill without kicking Vinny completely to the side, and therefore I have to be skeptical about whether it's going to happen. Vinny's strength has supposedly been college player evaluation, but that's only one facet of a GM role that also requires draft day management, cap management, free agency, contract renegotiation, etc. If Allen can help in all of those areas, then I think that would be a positive, but again I just don't know how that would occur without either an outright demotion of Vinny, or the creation of what amounts to a co-GM position that would once again create a non-sensical heirarchy in the organization that doesn't seem very healthy.

 
Sebowski said:
What do you guys think of the Bruce Allen to Washington rumors? I am optimistically believing them. I could see Vinny stepping aside a little to take the heat off. I also think all they (Danny and Vinny) care about is winning. They just haven't figured out how. I can see them bringing someone else in to help them out. I like this part from JLC:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsi...len_rumors.html

Several sources who have worked for or with owner Daniel Snyder and/or Allen have said the men have much common ground and that Snyder has dabbled with hiring Allen in the past. They said that Allen's personality would be a good fit for Snyde.....Several sources who previously worked in Washington's front office thought it was a combination that makes sense and could see Snyder being interested in Allen - who previously worked as an agent and has steep history managing the salary cap as well.
I have no problem adding a bona fide personnel guy to the front office, but the problem I have is that I don't know what role he would fill without kicking Vinny completely to the side, and therefore I have to be skeptical about whether it's going to happen. Vinny's strength has supposedly been college player evaluation, but that's only one facet of a GM role that also requires draft day management, cap management, free agency, contract renegotiation, etc. If Allen can help in all of those areas, then I think that would be a positive, but again I just don't know how that would occur without either an outright demotion of Vinny, or the creation of what amounts to a co-GM position that would once again create a non-sensical heirarchy in the organization that doesn't seem very healthy.
Snyder is king of creating titles. Vinny is "Executive Vice President of Football Operations" How about Bruce Allen: "Executive Director of Player Personnel Chairman King"?
 
Sebowski said:
What do you guys think of the Bruce Allen to Washington rumors? I am optimistically believing them. I could see Vinny stepping aside a little to take the heat off. I also think all they (Danny and Vinny) care about is winning. They just haven't figured out how. I can see them bringing someone else in to help them out. I like this part from JLC:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsi...len_rumors.html

Several sources who have worked for or with owner Daniel Snyder and/or Allen have said the men have much common ground and that Snyder has dabbled with hiring Allen in the past. They said that Allen's personality would be a good fit for Snyde.....Several sources who previously worked in Washington's front office thought it was a combination that makes sense and could see Snyder being interested in Allen - who previously worked as an agent and has steep history managing the salary cap as well.
I have no problem adding a bona fide personnel guy to the front office, but the problem I have is that I don't know what role he would fill without kicking Vinny completely to the side, and therefore I have to be skeptical about whether it's going to happen. Vinny's strength has supposedly been college player evaluation, but that's only one facet of a GM role that also requires draft day management, cap management, free agency, contract renegotiation, etc. If Allen can help in all of those areas, then I think that would be a positive, but again I just don't know how that would occur without either an outright demotion of Vinny, or the creation of what amounts to a co-GM position that would once again create a non-sensical heirarchy in the organization that doesn't seem very healthy.
Snyder is king of creating titles. Vinny is "Executive Vice President of Football Operations" How about Bruce Allen: "Executive Director of Player Personnel Chairman King"?
I know, and I hate this. Under Gibbs, we couldn't just have an "Offensive Coordinator" and a "Defensive Coordinator", we had to have "Assistant Head Coach, Offense", etc. It's stupid puffery, and a microcosm of what's wrong with the organization IMHO.
 
What do you guys think of the Bruce Allen to Washington rumors? I am optimistically believing them. I could see Vinny stepping aside a little to take the heat off. I also think all they (Danny and Vinny) care about is winning. They just haven't figured out how. I can see them bringing someone else in to help them out. I like this part from JLC:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsi...len_rumors.html

Several sources who have worked for or with owner Daniel Snyder and/or Allen have said the men have much common ground and that Snyder has dabbled with hiring Allen in the past. They said that Allen's personality would be a good fit for Snyde.....Several sources who previously worked in Washington's front office thought it was a combination that makes sense and could see Snyder being interested in Allen - who previously worked as an agent and has steep history managing the salary cap as well.
I have no problem adding a bona fide personnel guy to the front office, but the problem I have is that I don't know what role he would fill without kicking Vinny completely to the side, and therefore I have to be skeptical about whether it's going to happen. Vinny's strength has supposedly been college player evaluation, but that's only one facet of a GM role that also requires draft day management, cap management, free agency, contract renegotiation, etc. If Allen can help in all of those areas, then I think that would be a positive, but again I just don't know how that would occur without either an outright demotion of Vinny, or the creation of what amounts to a co-GM position that would once again create a non-sensical heirarchy in the organization that doesn't seem very healthy.
Snyder is king of creating titles. Vinny is "Executive Vice President of Football Operations" How about Bruce Allen: "Executive Director of Player Personnel Chairman King"?
I know, and I hate this. Under Gibbs, we couldn't just have an "Offensive Coordinator" and a "Defensive Coordinator", we had to have "Assistant Head Coach, Offense", etc. It's stupid puffery, and a microcosm of what's wrong with the organization IMHO.
I agree except I can see it being used for good in this case. Vinny can save face and Allen can straighten things out.
 
Another thing, when do we show Joe Bugel the door? The dude is a great line coach, but he will be 69 years old in March. That's right, 69!!! Isn't it time we got a line coach and Assistant HC who was a little closer in age to his players, especially since the OL is going to be a total rebuilding project, no matter how you look at it? I know he's the "last link to the glory days of Gibbs I", but still...69?????
:thumbup:Was that you who called Andy and Steve last night about Buges?
Yep. :lmao:
:wub:
 
What do you guys think of the Bruce Allen to Washington rumors? I am optimistically believing them. I could see Vinny stepping aside a little to take the heat off. I also think all they (Danny and Vinny) care about is winning. They just haven't figured out how. I can see them bringing someone else in to help them out. I like this part from JLC:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsi...len_rumors.html

Several sources who have worked for or with owner Daniel Snyder and/or Allen have said the men have much common ground and that Snyder has dabbled with hiring Allen in the past. They said that Allen's personality would be a good fit for Snyde.....Several sources who previously worked in Washington's front office thought it was a combination that makes sense and could see Snyder being interested in Allen - who previously worked as an agent and has steep history managing the salary cap as well.
I have no problem adding a bona fide personnel guy to the front office, but the problem I have is that I don't know what role he would fill without kicking Vinny completely to the side, and therefore I have to be skeptical about whether it's going to happen. Vinny's strength has supposedly been college player evaluation, but that's only one facet of a GM role that also requires draft day management, cap management, free agency, contract renegotiation, etc. If Allen can help in all of those areas, then I think that would be a positive, but again I just don't know how that would occur without either an outright demotion of Vinny, or the creation of what amounts to a co-GM position that would once again create a non-sensical heirarchy in the organization that doesn't seem very healthy.
Snyder is king of creating titles. Vinny is "Executive Vice President of Football Operations" How about Bruce Allen: "Executive Director of Player Personnel Chairman King"?
I know, and I hate this. Under Gibbs, we couldn't just have an "Offensive Coordinator" and a "Defensive Coordinator", we had to have "Assistant Head Coach, Offense", etc. It's stupid puffery, and a microcosm of what's wrong with the organization IMHO.
Under Gibbs, there was just inflaton in titles. Sauders and Williams were the coordinators, but had inflated titles. Then others could have the coordinator titles.
 
What do you guys think of the Bruce Allen to Washington rumors? I am optimistically believing them. I could see Vinny stepping aside a little to take the heat off. I also think all they (Danny and Vinny) care about is winning. They just haven't figured out how. I can see them bringing someone else in to help them out. I like this part from JLC:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsi...len_rumors.html

Several sources who have worked for or with owner Daniel Snyder and/or Allen have said the men have much common ground and that Snyder has dabbled with hiring Allen in the past. They said that Allen's personality would be a good fit for Snyde.....Several sources who previously worked in Washington's front office thought it was a combination that makes sense and could see Snyder being interested in Allen - who previously worked as an agent and has steep history managing the salary cap as well.
I have no problem adding a bona fide personnel guy to the front office, but the problem I have is that I don't know what role he would fill without kicking Vinny completely to the side, and therefore I have to be skeptical about whether it's going to happen. Vinny's strength has supposedly been college player evaluation, but that's only one facet of a GM role that also requires draft day management, cap management, free agency, contract renegotiation, etc. If Allen can help in all of those areas, then I think that would be a positive, but again I just don't know how that would occur without either an outright demotion of Vinny, or the creation of what amounts to a co-GM position that would once again create a non-sensical heirarchy in the organization that doesn't seem very healthy.
Snyder is king of creating titles. Vinny is "Executive Vice President of Football Operations" How about Bruce Allen: "Executive Director of Player Personnel Chairman King"?
I know, and I hate this. Under Gibbs, we couldn't just have an "Offensive Coordinator" and a "Defensive Coordinator", we had to have "Assistant Head Coach, Offense", etc. It's stupid puffery, and a microcosm of what's wrong with the organization IMHO.
I agree except I can see it being used for good in this case. Vinny can save face and Allen can straighten things out.
How good is Allen? I really don't know.I suspect if the Redskins hire Allen, he will go under Vinny on the org chart. Maybe it will allow Vinny to spend more time on his radio show.

 
From a salary cap thread in the Shark Pool.

We hear the Skins have their eye on 1 stud free agent – Panthers OT Jordan Gross, who could replace the declining Jon Jansen on the right.
Tha would be a great Fa pick up.
Yes and no.It seems like another attempt at a quick fix to make an immediate run at success. Gross will be 29 when the 2009 season starts. I'd prefer someone younger who we can count on for more than a three-year run.

But, he's a good player and would immediately solidify a tackle position. It appears he can play both sides, so he also offers insurance if Samuels goes down. If they can successfully fill one of the interior spots with a solid, younger player, the starting line would be in decent shape. But what about depth and what about a couple years from now.

 
What do you guys think of the Bruce Allen to Washington rumors? I am optimistically believing them. I could see Vinny stepping aside a little to take the heat off. I also think all they (Danny and Vinny) care about is winning. They just haven't figured out how. I can see them bringing someone else in to help them out. I like this part from JLC:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsi...len_rumors.html

Several sources who have worked for or with owner Daniel Snyder and/or Allen have said the men have much common ground and that Snyder has dabbled with hiring Allen in the past. They said that Allen's personality would be a good fit for Snyde.....Several sources who previously worked in Washington's front office thought it was a combination that makes sense and could see Snyder being interested in Allen - who previously worked as an agent and has steep history managing the salary cap as well.
I have no problem adding a bona fide personnel guy to the front office, but the problem I have is that I don't know what role he would fill without kicking Vinny completely to the side, and therefore I have to be skeptical about whether it's going to happen. Vinny's strength has supposedly been college player evaluation, but that's only one facet of a GM role that also requires draft day management, cap management, free agency, contract renegotiation, etc. If Allen can help in all of those areas, then I think that would be a positive, but again I just don't know how that would occur without either an outright demotion of Vinny, or the creation of what amounts to a co-GM position that would once again create a non-sensical heirarchy in the organization that doesn't seem very healthy.
Snyder is king of creating titles. Vinny is "Executive Vice President of Football Operations" How about Bruce Allen: "Executive Director of Player Personnel Chairman King"?
I know, and I hate this. Under Gibbs, we couldn't just have an "Offensive Coordinator" and a "Defensive Coordinator", we had to have "Assistant Head Coach, Offense", etc. It's stupid puffery, and a microcosm of what's wrong with the organization IMHO.
I agree except I can see it being used for good in this case. Vinny can save face and Allen can straighten things out.
How good is Allen? I really don't know.I suspect if the Redskins hire Allen, he will go under Vinny on the org chart. Maybe it will allow Vinny to spend more time on his radio show.
Bruce Allen is a clown. He hangs in the NFL due to his heritage, not his accomplishments. He's the mold from which Vinny Ceratto was created. In other words, he's perfect for the little one - another puppet to control.
 
I vote for the Gross pickup too. 29 or not, he's still a very good lineman, and we desperately need that right now.

 
I vote for the Gross pickup too. 29 or not, he's still a very good lineman, and we desperately need that right now.
And my concern is how much we should be concerned about "right now." I realize things can turn quickly in this league and it's possible for them to be in the SB next year. But, I'd prefer they start building something rather than patching something.
 
I vote for the Gross pickup too. 29 or not, he's still a very good lineman, and we desperately need that right now.
And my concern is how much we should be concerned about "right now." I realize things can turn quickly in this league and it's possible for them to be in the SB next year. But, I'd prefer they start building something rather than patching something.
good point, but does this cost them anything other than money? we're not talking about trading picks or anything that makes signing a younger OL a bad move here, are we? if the cap goes away, then I'm all for making big signings at critical positions for guys in their prime.
 
I vote for the Gross pickup too. 29 or not, he's still a very good lineman, and we desperately need that right now.
And my concern is how much we should be concerned about "right now." I realize things can turn quickly in this league and it's possible for them to be in the SB next year. But, I'd prefer they start building something rather than patching something.
good point, but does this cost them anything other than money? we're not talking about trading picks or anything that makes signing a younger OL a bad move here, are we? if the cap goes away, then I'm all for making big signings at critical positions for guys in their prime.
Yeah, I guess the cost could be low, especially if they can get Gross and a younger guy in for the future. But, it's the same old strategy and philosophy that has led us to a wild card peak.
 
Initial Personnel Ratings Completed

With the Redskins completing their first set of personnel meetings before the Senior Bowl, Jason "The Mayor" Reid and I spoke to several people involved in the process - it includes Vinny :lmao: Cerrato, all of his scouts and assistants and the entire coaching staff - to get a handle on what went on.

These were preliminary meetings to evaluate the current personnel, and no major decisions have been made. But everyone got a feel for the direction in which things seem to be headed and issues on both sides of the line were a constant topic of discussion.

The next wave of meetings will begin next week, and that's when things will start to heat up. Coaches are currently reviewing film and internal scouting reports on possible free agents. The next set of meetings will compare those players to those who are here now as the team prepares to make cuts. With free agency beginning Feb. 27, the team will lay the foundation for offseason moves during meetings with agents at the scouting combine in mid-February.

Several people told us that the offensive line was the greatest area of concern during the first series of meetings. Offensive line Coach Joe Bugel, criticized privately by some in the organization for being too loyal to veterans in the past, was brutally honest during the line review, sources said, particularly about how the line fell apart in the second half of the season.

There was a consensus among those in attendance that the team needs to upgrade at both guard spots and right tackle, though most sources doubted there will any kind of substantial free-agent budget to do that, and figure most of the present cast will be back.

Cerrato :lmao: was looking for reasons for the team's 2-6 finish, which some coaches at first thought was a joke :lmao: given personnel issues and the continuing age and injury problems of the line. Rarely could the entire line practice together save for some lighter Friday sessions and the players' technique and chemistry suffered. Veteran football coaches know the importance of having a line on the practice field as a unit. With most of this bunch coming off surgery again, that issue is unlikely to go away if they keep the group together.

Third-round pick Chad Rinehart is not seen as a capable player at this point, according to numerous sources involved in the meeting, and is not projected as being anywhere close to able to replace Pete Kendall or Randy Thomas at guard. Many coaches, including Bugel, worry about his confidence and ability, sources said. He is not being counted on to produce much in 2009 :cry: , and if he did it would be a surprising development. Similarly, Stephon Heyer is not viewed as a starter; he's okay for depth purposes but with Jon Jansen no longer deemed a starter, either, they need to do something at right tackle (I still expect them to draft a tackle with their first pick).

Kendall could not practice on Wednesdays all season because of his arthritic knees and, in addition, is in his mid-30s. Given the team's cap predicament, its needs and the internal expectation that they will not be big spenders, sources said they expect the team to try to re-sign Kendall on the cheap. Thomas's health and decreasing :excited: athleticism are a big issue as well, but, like Jansen, his contract makes it more expensive to cut him than to keep him, so he will be back. Look for the team to find a "value" guard in free agency to replace Jason Fabini and push for a starting job. Beyond that, I'm not sure they do a whole lot here.

As for the rest of the offense, sources involved in these meetings do not expect the Skins to offer QB Jason Campbell any sort of extension (his deal is up after the 2009 season). The team knows it needs to make major leaps in terms of WR production, but after drafting so many pass catchers a year ago :cry: , they have made their bed here. Maybe they add a Bobby Engram-type in free agency if the price is right. There remains a strong sense from the coaches that they need to add a "home-run hitter" to the running back mix - someone like a Sproles who is explosive in space and makes safeties miss - but again, with all of the other roster problems, that's considered a luxury. Maybe they can find a young third-down/change-of-pace back late in the draft.

The defensive line is a problem, too. Cornelius Griffin will not be a cap casualty, according to a source, but the team knows it needs a younger anchor to provide more push inside, which defensive coordinator Greg Blache believes would make it easier to get pressure on the perimeter. Finding help at tackle will be a priority, and the defensive coaches would love to find a playmaker at outside linebacker. Sources said it is very unlikely that Marcus Washington will return, with both sides seemingly ready for a change.

As for ends, there was some discussion about Jason Taylor possibly adding some pass rush as more of a linebacker, and there was talk about keeping him. However, his $8.5 million salary is very steep and he will be approached about coming back at a lesser salary, according to a source. That's quite unlikely to go down, though. Several of Taylor's teammates and others who know him well say they do not expect him to accept a reduced rate. In that case he'd rather be a free agent :bye: , they say, able to sign where he likes, preferring a system with less rigid responsibilities. He's a better fit in a 3-4 scheme and would rather play in a warmer area, they say. Some believe he would even go back to Miami at a discount, if Bill Parcells would take him, to finish his career there. Regardless, coming back here for half his salary seems unrealistic at this point.

The Skins know they need to add youth and power at end, but, again, are handcuffed by having only four draft picks. Lacking a second-round pick, if they don't take a DE in the first round I'd look for them to try to target one in the third round.

In the secondary, re-signing DeAngelo Hall to long-term deal remains a big priority :X (it could end up being the only big-time deal they do this offseason). Those negotiations will get a kick-start at the combine. That will be a major domino, with the ability to re-sign Hall affecting whether they keep Shawn Springs and push to deal :no: Carlos Rogers. One source said he expects the Skins to try to keep Springs at a more cap-friendly deal, but if that includes a paycut of any sort I would not expect Springs to accept it :bye: .

The meeting also touched on the need for improvement at kicker and punter, but, according to sources, price will be a huge factor. Look for the Skins to bring in young, cheap kickers and punters to compete with Shaun Suisham and Ryan Plackemeier. There won't be any Adam Vinatieri-type deals (though with the annual issues at both these positions and the limitations of this offense, finding someone of that ilk would be in order).

Maybe there will be a change in thinking when the Skins begin discussing outside free agents. Maybe the wallet opens up. But given that the Skins won't have the cap space that most teams will, finding cheap potential starters at a few positions appears to be the way they will proceed. If a Suggs or Haynesworth or Gross ends up here, several coaches and members of the football operations staff would be surprised. Looks like they will try to patch it together again.

Things will become more clear in February.

By Jason La Canfora | January 27, 2009

 
Leesburg, Va. - The Loudoun County Board of Supervisors has approved a two-year marketing deal with the Washington Redskins, branding the county as the team's "corporate home."

The deal calls for the county to spend $250,000 over two years from funds devoted to promoting tourism. The money would come from restricted hotel tax funds.

Board members voted 5 to 3 on Tuesday, with one abstention, for the two-year deal. Supervisor Jim Burton questioned what the return would be on the county's investment.

The board also approved a resolution directing county staff to pursue the possibility of creating a Redskins Hall of Fame in Loudoun. Fairfax County also has expressed interest.
 
'Skins sign K Dave Rayner and RB/KR Dominique Dorsey.

Rayner is an experienced kicker, although a bit of a journeyman. He's seen action with four teams, including the full 2006 season with Green Bay, but that seems to be the way things go for kickers until they find their spot. Coach Zorn mentioned this phenomenon in a press conference back in December:

There's kind of a group of punters and a group of kickers and they all rotate until they find a home, and what the do when they find a home, you know what they do? They get coached and they find their rhythm.

So we'll see what shakes out, and maybe find out how Suisham acquits himself with competition in camp.

But the more intriguing name is Dorsey's. He's is a former UNLV running back -- his 1,000 yard 2004 season is the most recent one they've had -- who received the 2008 John Agro Special Teams Award. That award, as I think we all know, is given to the most outstanding CFL special teams player by a vote of his peers, so ... pretty prestigious honor.
 
I vote for the Gross pickup too. 29 or not, he's still a very good lineman, and we desperately need that right now.
And my concern is how much we should be concerned about "right now." I realize things can turn quickly in this league and it's possible for them to be in the SB next year. But, I'd prefer they start building something rather than patching something.
We're at a crossroads. The team can either completely scrap its present operating model and go completely over to a draft-based approach (as was well-described in the recent La Canfora article) or it can patch some holes in FA while hopefully drafting well and developing the young talent it's drafting into winners.If the team is going to scrap everything, than the Gross pickup makes no sense. The rebuild, because of how entrenched certain veterans are, and how few draft picks the team has, will be at least a three-year process before they're competitive. And I'm talking three years of <6-win football. It also means that pretty much all of the present team leaders - Portis, Moss, Campbell, Fletcher, etc. are all gone and won't be part of what the team hopes is a good new team. That will also effectively be the end of Zorn in Washington. Only Landry and perhaps a guy like Cooley might remain through the process.

If they're going to try to gradually continue their transition to more of a draft based approach, while still trying to compete in the short term, then a guy like Gross makes some sense. They can't address all of their offensive line needs in one draft (LG, RG and RT, and Rinehart reportedly has been disappointing while Heyer is limited), so filling one of those spots with a proven starting caliber talent to get you three to five years at that position isn't a bad approach. Moreover, as we saw this past season, nothing will function in this offense if the offensive line is breaking down, and Zorn was hired in the hope that he'd inject some life on offense.

It really depends upon what they want to do here.

 
It really depends upon what they want to do here.
Yep. And, I have little doubt they'll approach it similarly to the previous years: patch holes.This NFL is tricky. We see every year teams rise from the ashes and make a one-year turnaround. So, in one sense, patching holes and get the best talent you can immediately is a fine approach. On the flip side, like I said, that's what they've been doing and only through a HOF coach could they reach a Wild Card spot.They always appear to be "one player away". Then, when they add that one, or two, players, the results don't change much. Yet, someone does it every year. Someone who didn't get to the playoffs this year could easily be in the SB next year.
 
dgreen said:
T Bell said:
It really depends upon what they want to do here.
Yep. And, I have little doubt they'll approach it similarly to the previous years: patch holes.This NFL is tricky. We see every year teams rise from the ashes and make a one-year turnaround. So, in one sense, patching holes and get the best talent you can immediately is a fine approach. On the flip side, like I said, that's what they've been doing and only through a HOF coach could they reach a Wild Card spot.They always appear to be "one player away". Then, when they add that one, or two, players, the results don't change much. Yet, someone does it every year. Someone who didn't get to the playoffs this year could easily be in the SB next year.
If they patch holes and draft, then I'm ok with that approach and last year's quiet offseason and heavy draft pleased me. Then they traded away those draft picks and left us with only four this year, so I don't really know what they're going to do. They're just too impulsive and inconsistent to get a read on them.
 
dgreen said:
T Bell said:
It really depends upon what they want to do here.
Yep. And, I have little doubt they'll approach it similarly to the previous years: patch holes.This NFL is tricky. We see every year teams rise from the ashes and make a one-year turnaround. So, in one sense, patching holes and get the best talent you can immediately is a fine approach. On the flip side, like I said, that's what they've been doing and only through a HOF coach could they reach a Wild Card spot.They always appear to be "one player away". Then, when they add that one, or two, players, the results don't change much. Yet, someone does it every year. Someone who didn't get to the playoffs this year could easily be in the SB next year.
If they patch holes and draft, then I'm ok with that approach and last year's quiet offseason and heavy draft pleased me. Then they traded away those draft picks and left us with only four this year, so I don't really know what they're going to do. They're just too impulsive and inconsistent to get a read on them.
I think there is some consistency. The front office basically panicked when Daniels was injured last year and traded for Jason Taylor as fast as they could. They also panicked when the traded for TJ Duckett when Portis and Betts were hurting in the preseason a couple of years ago.I am still hoping they get some production out of Taylor, but it did not look like a good trade last fall and it still does not.
 
Wondering if you guys saw my pick for the Redskins in the Mock Draft Thread.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you're not quite enough of a draft guru for me to go hunting for your contributions to an early Feb. mock draft thread. :moneybag:You mine just telling us, or at least posting the link?
 
13. Washington - ChrisCooleyFan: Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State

Not sure this is what you guys would do. I would see a D Line/O-Line or trade down here.

 
13. Washington - ChrisCooleyFan: Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio StateNot sure this is what you guys would do. I would see a D Line/O-Line or trade down here.
I would probably lynch Snyder and Cerrato if they did this, and not because the 'Skins don't need another (and especially younger) CB. I'm just sick and tired of the team building itself from the outside in, especially on defense. That absolutely needs to stop.
 
13. Washington - ChrisCooleyFan: Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio StateNot sure this is what you guys would do. I would see a D Line/O-Line or trade down here.
He said he would prefer OL/DL but didn't feel the value was there because of run on those positions in the mock draft. He also mentioned trading down with the Saints.
 
13. Washington - ChrisCooleyFan: Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio StateNot sure this is what you guys would do. I would see a D Line/O-Line or trade down here.
Is that you, Vinny?
Vinny is a Cowboy fan? That could explain a few things :lol: .Good to hear that the CCfan thought of these things. However, again I would be shocked if they went corner as T Bell also eluded to. If they expect the run on those positions, then I see them more likely trading down, but could they not also look at moving up 3/4 spots? What are your picks this year (Round and # of picks)?
 
13. Washington - ChrisCooleyFan: Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio StateNot sure this is what you guys would do. I would see a D Line/O-Line or trade down here.
Is that you, Vinny?
Vinny is a Cowboy fan? That could explain a few things :lol: .Good to hear that the CCfan thought of these things. However, again I would be shocked if they went corner as T Bell also eluded to. If they expect the run on those positions, then I see them more likely trading down, but could they not also look at moving up 3/4 spots? What are your picks this year (Round and # of picks)?
Rounds 1, 3, 4, 7; none are compensatory so all are 13th in each round. If they stay at 1.13, they're drafting the best OT or DT on the board, and they'd better.
 
13. Washington - ChrisCooleyFan: Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio StateNot sure this is what you guys would do. I would see a D Line/O-Line or trade down here.
Is that you, Vinny?
Vinny is a Cowboy fan? That could explain a few things :mellow: .Good to hear that the CCfan thought of these things. However, again I would be shocked if they went corner as T Bell also eluded to. If they expect the run on those positions, then I see them more likely trading down, but could they not also look at moving up 3/4 spots? What are your picks this year (Round and # of picks)?
Rounds 1, 3, 4, 7; none are compensatory so all are 13th in each round. If they stay at 1.13, they're drafting the best OT or DT on the board, and they'd better.
I would think DE and LB are in play. LB is not as glaring a hole, but it is definately an area of need.I hope Vinny can draft someone who can contribute this year, unlike the class of 2008 (except Horton). I understand you need a few years before you evaluate a draft, but their top 5 picks spent most of the season inactive. Not a good start.
 
13. Washington - ChrisCooleyFan: Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio StateNot sure this is what you guys would do. I would see a D Line/O-Line or trade down here.
Is that you, Vinny?
Vinny is a Cowboy fan? That could explain a few things :thumbup: .Good to hear that the CCfan thought of these things. However, again I would be shocked if they went corner as T Bell also eluded to. If they expect the run on those positions, then I see them more likely trading down, but could they not also look at moving up 3/4 spots? What are your picks this year (Round and # of picks)?
Rounds 1, 3, 4, 7; none are compensatory so all are 13th in each round. If they stay at 1.13, they're drafting the best OT or DT on the board, and they'd better.
I would think DE and LB are in play. LB is not as glaring a hole, but it is definately an area of need.I hope Vinny can draft someone who can contribute this year, unlike the class of 2008 (except Horton). I understand you need a few years before you evaluate a draft, but their top 5 picks spent most of the season inactive. Not a good start.
They could use a good DE I agree, but the DE's aren't as good in this draft as the DT's are.
 
If the draft went how it was in the shark pool draft, I was also tempted to pick Cushing Lb from USC. I also stated that I'm hoping the Skins can get Gross, therefore DL is what I would want. If I was able to trade down, I would go after the DT from OLE MISS, but at 13 I couldn't take him. not with Jenkins on the board, and I'm a U of M fan. Also would of looked at Tyson Jackson De LSU, but again, I just think it was 2 early for those 2, and I think that we could trade down from this spot with Jenkins on the board still. However that really won't happen becuase Green Bay isn't gonna take Moreno like the tool bag did in the mock draft.

 
13. Washington - ChrisCooleyFan: Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio StateNot sure this is what you guys would do. I would see a D Line/O-Line or trade down here.
Quite frankly, I don't see any conceivable way that Jenkins falls to #13. If we were lucky enough for that to happen, we should be able to get a mini-ransom of picks trading down with some team who covets Jenkins. You would think the Skins would be able to recoup 2nd, 4th, and 6th round if Jenkins is still there.Personally, I would love for us to get Gross in FA. That would fill one major need at RT. As for the draft, I am in favor of us trading down and accumulating more picks, unless by some miracle Raji is still there (he won't be), or if we don't get Gross in FA and one of the stud tackles like Oher is still available, then the obvious move is to take him.Anyone here any more news on Carlos Rogers? There was talk of trading him. He's a FA after next season right? If he were to walk, I'm guessing we would get a 3rd round compensatory pick depending on what we do in FA. I don't think it would be worth trading him, unless they get at least 3rd and 4th round picks for him.
 
Anyone here any more news on Carlos Rogers? There was talk of trading him. He's a FA after next season right? If he were to walk, I'm guessing we would get a 3rd round compensatory pick depending on what we do in FA. I don't think it would be worth trading him, unless they get at least 3rd and 4th round picks for him.
Nothing.I still can't believe that they won't extend Jason Campbell. Whatever you think about him, the fact is that that is clearly the team betting against his success as a QB in 2009, which can't be reassuring to anyone, especially Jim Zorn. I don't think they'd have to pay a king's ransom to extend him. And if Campbell does have a good (and improved) year, he's going to command a lot more money as a FA. It's just dumb.
 
I don't think they'd have to pay a king's ransom to extend him. And if Campbell does have a good (and improved) year, he's going to command a lot more money as a FA. It's just dumb.
I would think that's exactly why Campbell wouldn't want to extend right now. I doubt it's just the team who wants to wait.
 
I don't think they'd have to pay a king's ransom to extend him. And if Campbell does have a good (and improved) year, he's going to command a lot more money as a FA. It's just dumb.
I would think that's exactly why Campbell wouldn't want to extend right now. I doubt it's just the team who wants to wait.
I don't think so. Reports are that Campbell is interested in extending and the team won't have it. And kind of like with head coaches, it's a good thing for everyone to see that you're committed to your starting QB long term. It's not all about money. NFL contracts aren't guaranteed, and Campbell could be in trouble if he's injured next year and is trying to hook on as a FA somewhere. I also think that he'd like to know that he has the team behind him. I wish it were different but more and more I'm expecting another frustrating season in 2009, resulting in Zorn's firing and the departure of Campbell and a bunch of other veteran players and a massive rebuilding project in 2010, all orchestrated by Vinny of course. Same ####, different year.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top