***Official*** 2009 Washington Redskins Thread (1 Viewer)

[fatness]

How did they miss the Dolphins going 1-15 to 11-5 last year?

The article is about teams that had exactly 4 wins.

 

[PantherPower]

I love both players, but I think the Skins should dangle either TE to the entire league. If someone gives a 2nd for either, you take it. I love Cooley, but I think in time, Davis will be just as good, maybe better.

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

I love both players, but I think the Skins should dangle either TE to the entire league. If someone gives a 2nd for either, you take it. I love Cooley, but I think in time, Davis will be just as good, maybe better.

 

[fatness]

Players who have started at least one game, with the number of games they've missed in (parentheses).

Randy Thomas (14)

Chris Samuels (11)

Clinton Portis (8)

Chris Horton (8)

Chad Rinehart (6)

Chris Cooley (6)

Ladell Betts (6)

Mike Williams (3)

Albert Haynesworth (3)

DeAngelo Hall (3)

Hunter Smith (3)

Devin Thomas (1)

Mike Sellers (1)

Cornelius Griffin (1)

Byron Westbrook (1)

Justin Tryon (1)

Fred Smoot (1)

Reed Doughty (1)

I wonder how that compares to other teams.

Also, to show how bad our O-line has deteriorated over the years, there are only 2 opening day starters on the O-line who missed significant time --- Thomas and Samuels. Fortunately we had drafted an O-lineman in the 3rd round the other year to step right in. Unfortunately it was Rinehart, he sucks badly, and he got injured. Fortunately we had signed a former NFL O-lineman to lose 100 pounds and step right in. Unfortunately it was Mike Williams, he's just about the worst pass-blocker I've ever seen on a football field, and he got hurt.

Thanks Vinnie, you piece of ####, for wrecking the offensive line. It took years to make it this bad but you did it.

 

[fatness]

If we could get a 2nd for Davis we take it. Trading a Cooley for a 2nd doesn't make any sense. Davis isn't half the player Cooley is. Neither will be traded anyway (nor should they be). They are both affordable and Yoder makes it a good set.

Who would you trade that has any value to another team?

 

[dgreen]

Redskins Player of the Decade has Chris Samuels and Sean Taylor in the finals. Samuels has no chance.

 

[jbz]

Samuels should win, but Taylor will. I miss that guy

 

[fatness]

Samuels should win, but Taylor will. I miss that guy

So do I, every time I watch their defense take the field.

 

[Marvelous]

Of course, if you can get great value for Cooley, the right move is to trade him. I'm just not sure how much they can get for him, especially coming off an injury.

That's my point about Cooley. He's talented and wildly popular, but he's one of the few players that could net the Redskins some value in return. If they can get a 2nd round pick for him I'd do it. A 3rd round pick, that would depend on who's available in the 3rd. I'm assuming their first 2 picks will be an o-lineman and (because they have their heads up their asses) a QB. If a good O-lineman is available in the 3rd, that might help the team more than Cooley, since Davis has shown he's a decent starting TE. I can't see giving up on Landry. They just switched him to strong safety 2 games ago and he's got to do some learning there before deciding whether he's poop or not.

If we could get a 2nd for Davis we take it. Trading a Cooley for a 2nd doesn't make any sense. Davis isn't half the player Cooley is. Neither will be traded anyway (nor should they be). They are both affordable and Yoder makes it a good set.

I really can't imagine a coach saying he has too much talent at TE. It seems like any coach not named Martz would love to have the challenge of getting both Cooley and Davis on the field at the same time.

 

[Marvelous]

If we could get a 2nd for Davis we take it. Trading a Cooley for a 2nd doesn't make any sense. Davis isn't half the player Cooley is. Neither will be traded anyway (nor should they be). They are both affordable and Yoder makes it a good set.

Who would you trade that has any value to another team?

For the most part, I would not trade anyone that has value as a Redskin next year. And I would dangle and trade anyone who I did not want. I would seriously try to trade Portis and Randle El. May only get a 7th rounder for one of them, or may just need to cut them all.

 

[Marvelous]

If we could get a 2nd for Davis we take it. Trading a Cooley for a 2nd doesn't make any sense. Davis isn't half the player Cooley is. Neither will be traded anyway (nor should they be). They are both affordable and Yoder makes it a good set.

Who would you trade that has any value to another team?

Another note: the Redskins just spent a 2nd rounder and two years developing a TE who may now be starting caliber. It makes no sense to trade him for another 2nd rounder who will need time to develop and may or may not become a decent player.There are lots of ways to get players. And if next year is uncapped, the Redskins will be able to get some decent players. I realize the free agent pool will be diluted, but if they sign the 3 top OL free agents, it would be a big upgrade over what they currently have.

 

[fatness]

The Washington Times, which always had good Redskin coverage despite being a crap newspaper, stopped making their print edition a short while ago. It seems that cut was not enough. They've laid off 40% of their staff including the entire sports department. That means David Elfin, Ryan O'Halloran, and Thom Loverro lost their jobs there.

Dan Steinberg wrote about it over at the Washington Post.

Redskins beat guys Ryan O'Halloran and David Elfin aren't going with the team to San Diego, which is just unimaginable, a Skins game without the Times guys.

Redskin coverage takes another hit.

 

[fatness]

Another note: the Redskins just spent a 2nd rounder and two years developing a TE who may now be starting caliber. It makes no sense to trade him for another 2nd rounder who will need time to develop and may or may not become a decent player.

I agree, that's why trading Cooley makes so much sense. He's worth more to other teams than Davis, he's older, Davis can handle the starting job well, and the draft pick obtained in return can be used to draft a sorely-needed O-lineman which is a far greater team need than a second talented tight end. Neither Cooley nor Davis is going to keep Campbell from getting knocked on his ### all game. You guys seriously need to start valuing draft picks more. Vinnie and Dan's dismissal of them as team building tools is a large part of what's led to the pit the team is in.

 

[TankRizzo]

You guys seriously need to start valuing draft picks more. Vinnie and Dan's dismissal of them as team building tools is a large part of what's led to the pit the team is in.

Yeah, it's rebuilding time, when it's an undertaking as vast as the one we're about to undertake, you can't get sentimental over one guy if you can get a good return on him.

 

[Sidewinder16]

The Washington Times, which always had good Redskin coverage despite being a crap newspaper, stopped making their print edition a short while ago. It seems that cut was not enough. They've laid off 40% of their staff including the entire sports department. That means David Elfin, Ryan O'Halloran, and Thom Loverro lost their jobs there.

Dan Steinberg wrote about it over at the Washington Post.

Redskins beat guys Ryan O'Halloran and David Elfin aren't going with the team to San Diego, which is just unimaginable, a Skins game without the Times guys.

Redskin coverage takes another hit.

Wow. That really sucks. They didn't have the up-to-the-minute breaking news angle like the Post had cornered with RI, but O'Halloran and Elfin usually had a level take on the team. Hopefully the can land on their feet somewhere soon. They'll certainly be missed by this 'Skins fan if they can't land another Redskins beat.

 

[fatness]

The Redskins are going through their final workout of the season, and it would seem unlikely at this point that safety LaRon Landry and receiver Devin Thomas will play Sunday at San Diego. Landry, who has been suffering from a concussion, was not on the practice field at all. Thomas, who missed last week's game against Dallas with an ankle sprain, stood on the sidelines as the Redskins went through New Year's Day drills. Thomas has not practiced this week.

Defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth (hip) looked to be participating in a limited way. He went through some exercises, but did not don a helmet when the Redskins began team drills.

Barry SvrlugaI bet the locker room will clear out quickly. What a god-awful year this has been.

Thanks Vinnie.

edit: 2010 Redskin Thread begins here

 

[Sebowski]

Another note: the Redskins just spent a 2nd rounder and two years developing a TE who may now be starting caliber. It makes no sense to trade him for another 2nd rounder who will need time to develop and may or may not become a decent player.

I agree, that's why trading Cooley makes so much sense. He's worth more to other teams than Davis, he's older, Davis can handle the starting job well, and the draft pick obtained in return can be used to draft a sorely-needed O-lineman which is a far greater team need than a second talented tight end. Neither Cooley nor Davis is going to keep Campbell from getting knocked on his ### all game. You guys seriously need to start valuing draft picks more. Vinnie and Dan's dismissal of them as team building tools is a large part of what's led to the pit the team is in.

Cooley is much better than Davis. Davis has a ball bounce off his hands every single game. We invested a 2nd and some time on Davis, so what! We did the same for Cooley and he is an actual Pro Bowl player. Davis is not. He is not as good as Dallass 2nd TE either, and they have Witten as well. Having 2 good TEs is not a problem. We are in a good situation there. The bust rate for 2nd rounders is huge. Especially with our history. The only way you even answer a phone call on Cooley is if a 1st rounder is involved, and that is not happening.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Keim looks back at Norv Turner's tenure with the 'Skins:

He was insecure. Turner was a first-time head coach and perhaps he's different now. But he loved making excuses after losses; it's why the joke here was that he never lost a game -- the players did. The day after a loss, Turner often would stand in the lobby chatting with a favored reporter and giving all the reasons why they lost.

He was not the best communicator. He was different on the conference call with us Wednesday; less starting and stopping sentences and changing thoughts mid-stream. So maybe he's improved in that regard. But what I remember is a coach who was difficult to transcribe because of the starting and stopping. As one player said at the time, "It's tough for us too."

He believed in a star system. That was true even with the media. After seven seasons, some beat reporters were convinced Turner did not know their names. It was like that with players, too. He knew their names, but some were convinced that there were different rules for different players, a Jimmy Johnson philosophy.

He was a decent guy. One thing that always stuck with me about Turner is how he would arrange his schedule to be at his son's football games...Also heard that how supportive he was of the program and didn't try to big time anyone. These qualities are why he had some major supporters in the organization; one person called Turner the best person he ever knew.

The hug. I'll never forget the hug. After Washington beat San Francisco to win the NFC East title in 1999, he and owner Dan Snyder had probably the most fake, and awkward, hug you'll ever see. It summed up their relationship.

 

[Sidewinder16]

The Washington Times, which always had good Redskin coverage despite being a crap newspaper, stopped making their print edition a short while ago. It seems that cut was not enough. They've laid off 40% of their staff including the entire sports department. That means David Elfin, Ryan O'Halloran, and Thom Loverro lost their jobs there.

Keim mentioned something that I had forgotten in his goodbye to the Times guys. Elfin has a HOF vote. I doubt anything will happen anytime soon, but I thought those were usually held by members of the media. Hopefully Elfin hooks on somewhere else soon.

 

[fatness]

Cooley is much better than Davis.

Davis was more productive with a worse cast on the field around him. Cooley --- started 6 games, had 2 TD's

Davis --- started 10 games, had 6 TD's

The Redskins' offense has totalled 27 TD's this year. So don't try making the case that TD's don't matter.

He is not as good as Dallass 2nd TE either, and they have Witten as well.

Dallas's 2nd TE didn't do squat this year.Martellus Bennett --- 0 TD's

 

[fatness]

Keim mentioned something that I had forgotten in his goodbye to the Times guys. Elfin has a HOF vote. I doubt anything will happen anytime soon, but I thought those were usually held by members of the media. Hopefully Elfin hooks on somewhere else soon.

I don't think either Elfin or O'Halloran will be out of work too long.

 

[Marvelous]

On a complete side note: I got a job offer yesterday and they want me to start on Monday. So Daniel Snyder and Bruce Allen won't be getting my resume.

 

[fatness]

Congratulations, man. Snyder and Allen will rue the day they missed out on you.

 

[Sebowski]

Cooley is much better than Davis.

Davis was more productive with a worse cast on the field around him. Cooley --- started 6 games, had 2 TD's

Davis --- started 10 games, had 6 TD's

The Redskins' offense has totalled 27 TD's this year. So don't try making the case that TD's don't matter.

He is not as good as Dallass 2nd TE either, and they have Witten as well.

Dallas's 2nd TE didn't do squat this year.Martellus Bennett --- 0 TD's

Stats, shmats. The film don't lie.

 

[Marvelous]

Some thoughts on the Redskin personnel/playing time decisions:

1. Randle El has not returned a punt since Cerrato resigned. Pretty telling there.

2. Going into the season, the Redskins were content with Chad Rienhart and Will Montgomery as the back up guards. Once Thomas went down, Rienhart and Montgomery competed for the starting job and Montgomery won. He was subsequently benched for Rienhart.

Later in the season, the move big Mike Williams to guard, where he has never played over Montgomery. Now in Week 16, Montgomery competed against Edwin Williams and a just signed free agent and lost out to Williams.

It is pretty obvious that the Redskin coaches have no faith in Montgomery. And Montgomery beat out Rienhart earlier in the season. How can a team go into the season with two backup guards that the coaching staff has no faith in?

3. LaRon Landry has been moved to SS after Cerrato resigned. I know they were staring to move that way before he resigned, but it starting to look like maybe the front office "strongly suggested" that Landry play FS.

4. Kudos to Reed Doughty for being able to move to FS on the fly. Get well soon. I hope he is around next season.

5. Does Renaldo Wynn ever play? Why is he taking up a roster spot? On most teams, roster spots are very valuable and the ones down the depth chart go to young players you are developing.

 

[Marvelous]

One more question to ponder: Was hiring Sherman Lewis as a consultant a success?

When he was hired, the Redskins already had 2 wins. Without him, they likely would find a way to win another game (Oakland maybe). So let's say they were destine for 3-13.

With Lewis, they are heading to 4-12. The offense has looked significantly better at times even with the train wreck of an offensive line.

Also, Cerrato has resigned. Zorn almost certainly will be fired at season end. Although it was pretty evident that would be the longest he would be coach once his play calling was taken away. The whole coaching staff will probably be dismissed. And a large part of the roster will likely turn over now.

I thought that a GM's job is pretty done in the offseason and there was little impact he could have during the season. Bringing on Sherman Lewis has about as big an impact as you could hope for. But in the end, the difference is really insignificant and just wreaks havoc on the coaching staff and players.

What do you all think?

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

Fat Albert sitting out today.

 

[DCThunder]

Let's put this baby to bed and move to the Off-Season Thread.

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

Let's put this baby to bed and move to the Off-Season Thread.

 

[buster c]

Let's put this baby to bed and move to the Off-Season Thread.

Thunder:Going forward, please adhere to appropriate in-season/off-season time parameters. No sense having an off-season thread going during the season.Thanks

 

[burgundy and gold]

I balked at the notion of cheering for the Chargers in order to obtain a higher pick but now that it's over and the loss seems to have moved us from pick 6 to pick 4 I'm actually pretty happy with the results.

We should definately keep Cooley and Davis. Just imagine what kind of damage they could do when used properly. I realize that the skins will probably not win the super bowl next season but I'm never in favor of abandoning all hope. That tandem is one of our few advantages.

Zorn and his system are gone. Now we can get a real coach.

I think that Bruce Allen holds the reins firmly now based on his statement regarding the release of Zorn. If you notice, he said I and not We. Of course I still expect Snyder to be a part of some of the decision making but it's safe to say that Allen is now in the captains chair.

I say trade that 4 pick to somebody; maybe Seattle, they have two first rounders and will probably be interested in Bradford. That way maybe we can get some bookends!