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***Official*** 2009 Washington Redskins Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter DCThunder
- Start date
Sebowski
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
buster c
Footballguy
might not be a bad idea to call this the official 2009 pre-season thread
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I thought I read the other day that they still needed to open a spot to sign Orakpo. I could have my stories mixed up, though.It seems a number of writers are throwing the 'Skins in the mix for possible landing spots for Vick. Not sure if it's because of any insider info or simply due to Snyder's FA history. In today's Sporting News Today, Vinnie Iyer ranks Washington as the #1 team "in terms of how much they need and want Michael Vick for the 2009 season".Skins cut FB Jonathan Evans. Opening up a roster spot?
dgreen
Footballguy
And I guess Jarmon, too? Maybe this cut means they are close to signing one of them.I thought I read the other day that they still needed to open a spot to sign Orakpo. I could have my stories mixed up, though.Skins cut FB Jonathan Evans. Opening up a roster spot?
Jason Reid says he got a text from Vinny saying they aren't pursuing Vick.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
What's the Skins fan consensus on Vick? Wilbon was dead-on in the morning's Post for a change. The African-American fan base, the local ties, the bond with DeAngelo Hall, etc. I'd add to that the fact that we need a back-up, and in some ways Vick is perfect because his 5 game suspension clearly establishes Campbell as the starter, so you get the quality backup and the fan excitement without the traing camp drama. He played well with Crumpler, which leads me to believe he could take advantage of our elite TE talent. He'll probably come cheap. And the fanbase gives the Skins tremendous latitude, so community relations would be no problem as compared to some other destinations.
I personally am not opposed to this move.
I personally am not opposed to this move.
dgreen
Footballguy
I'm guessing there is no consensus. I'd say it's 50/50 among fans.
I haven't read that article, but I think Wilbon overplays the black angle too often. Then again, I'm not exactly plugged into the DC African American community.
I think there will be training camp drama regardless of the circumstances, especially in DC where training camp without Vick will already be the top story. I agree we need a back-up, but I'm not sure you can count on much from Vick at QB in 2009. It will be a new offense and he probably needs a lot of work on some fundamentals since he hasn't played in a couple years. But, as long as he's in football shape by mid-season, I think he can make plays with the ball in his hands and would be helpful that way.
The fanbase is certainly stronger than most NFL teams, but it is suffering. They'll, of course, sell out all season tickets once again, but the waiting list is dwindling and the ticket office is apparently having a harder time this year than previous years getting everything sold. But, I'm not sure Vick would do anything to affect that either direction.
Me neither and the fact that he should come cheap is the main reason. I originally thought a one-year minimum deal would be good, but I wouldn't mind a 2-year deal considering how little he might play this year.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
IMO, this is a bunch of writers not doing their homework. The Skins have been uber PR conscience since Snyder took over the team, and I would be absolutely shocked if they pursued Vick. Not to mention disrearding the pr stuff, I don't think it makes much football sense. Have they even worked on any wildcat packages this offseason? (Seriously have they? I haven't heard or seen anything that said they have been, but I could be forgetting.) So they bring in Vick and are just going to start working on the wildcat stuff in training camp?I thought I read the other day that they still needed to open a spot to sign Orakpo. I could have my stories mixed up, though.It seems a number of writers are throwing the 'Skins in the mix for possible landing spots for Vick. Not sure if it's because of any insider info or simply due to Snyder's FA history. In today's Sporting News Today, Vinnie Iyer ranks Washington as the #1 team "in terms of how much they need and want Michael Vick for the 2009 season".Skins cut FB Jonathan Evans. Opening up a roster spot?
Vick is a terrible fit for the WCO. He's completely different than Cutler and Sanchez who are franchise type qb's.
Also, wouldn't this mean they would be carrying 4 qb's? I don't see them cutting Collins, as he's the only experienced backup. Would they cut Colt and try and put him on the practice squad? That extra roster spot is pretty valuable.
And like JC needs another distraction right now. This is his team, and I would think that bringing in Vick would also very likely disrupt team chemistry.
Sebowski
Footballguy
I can't believe how anyone would be for this. The guy wasn't that good before prison. Now he is out of shape and has no idea how to run an offense. they say it takes a QB 3 years to get it down.
This is completely ridiculous.
Only way I'd take him on as on the practice squad. Not sure what those rules are though. He should be going after us though. Zorn may be able to teach him how to play QB instead of RB, but let's see how he does with JC first.
This is completely ridiculous.
Only way I'd take him on as on the practice squad. Not sure what those rules are though. He should be going after us though. Zorn may be able to teach him how to play QB instead of RB, but let's see how he does with JC first.
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Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Atlanta ran a WCO from '04-'06 with Vick under
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nittanylion
Footballguy
100% AGAINST...at this time.
What Michael Vick is (and this has NOTHING to do with the DogFighting):
The potential to be a tremendous ATHELETE - IF he can return to the condition he was in the last time he played NFL Football.
An Athelete with a CANNON.
An Athelete who often makes horrible decisions in the Passing Game
An Athelete who has very poor short to medium range accuracy.
We already have TWO capable options on our Roster for employing the WildCat Formation: Portis and Randle-El.
Vick is going to be available as a non-Roster Invitee for several Teams to work out. His Agent will likely not allow him to sign a Contract anywhere until several of these opportunities bear themselves out, so that he can get the best deal possible.
Finding money won't be a problem for Snyderatto and the Redskins. IF Vick proves he can return to form as an ATHELETE who chooses to play football, the Redskins will be able to offer him a competitive Contract.
We have plenty of 'Personalities' on this Team who already need 'Management' - any Team with aspirations to NFL Greatness needs to keep that variable at the absolute minimum that the Management, Coaches and Players can work to keep in check. Portis, Haynesworth and Hall come to mind immediately, but there are others.
For this Team to ultimately be successful, the last thing it needs is anything resembling a QB Controversy.
Right now we have a perfect SetUp:
Campbell: Unquestioned Starter, Contract Year, going into 2nd Season with Zorn - Golden Opp to show up or be shown the door.
An Offensive Line that is turning the corner in terms of Quality Starters and Quality Depth.
A Running Game and a Short to Medium Passing Game that will effectively keep Defenses honest, allowing the Passing Game to gradually flourish.
A Defense that is going to be able to give the Offense the opportunity to work in advantageous Field Position Situations, and Scoreboard Situations.
A Backup QB in Todd Collins who is absolutely no threat to the Starter.
Two Developmental Prospects in Brennan and Daniel who are nowhere close in their development to logically see the field any time in the near future.
There's absolutely no need to mess with any of this until more is known about Michael Vick, the Athlete 2 Years removed from his last NFL Snap.
What Michael Vick is (and this has NOTHING to do with the DogFighting):
The potential to be a tremendous ATHELETE - IF he can return to the condition he was in the last time he played NFL Football.
An Athelete with a CANNON.
An Athelete who often makes horrible decisions in the Passing Game
An Athelete who has very poor short to medium range accuracy.
We already have TWO capable options on our Roster for employing the WildCat Formation: Portis and Randle-El.
Vick is going to be available as a non-Roster Invitee for several Teams to work out. His Agent will likely not allow him to sign a Contract anywhere until several of these opportunities bear themselves out, so that he can get the best deal possible.
Finding money won't be a problem for Snyderatto and the Redskins. IF Vick proves he can return to form as an ATHELETE who chooses to play football, the Redskins will be able to offer him a competitive Contract.
We have plenty of 'Personalities' on this Team who already need 'Management' - any Team with aspirations to NFL Greatness needs to keep that variable at the absolute minimum that the Management, Coaches and Players can work to keep in check. Portis, Haynesworth and Hall come to mind immediately, but there are others.
For this Team to ultimately be successful, the last thing it needs is anything resembling a QB Controversy.
Right now we have a perfect SetUp:
Campbell: Unquestioned Starter, Contract Year, going into 2nd Season with Zorn - Golden Opp to show up or be shown the door.
An Offensive Line that is turning the corner in terms of Quality Starters and Quality Depth.
A Running Game and a Short to Medium Passing Game that will effectively keep Defenses honest, allowing the Passing Game to gradually flourish.
A Defense that is going to be able to give the Offense the opportunity to work in advantageous Field Position Situations, and Scoreboard Situations.
A Backup QB in Todd Collins who is absolutely no threat to the Starter.
Two Developmental Prospects in Brennan and Daniel who are nowhere close in their development to logically see the field any time in the near future.
There's absolutely no need to mess with any of this until more is known about Michael Vick, the Athlete 2 Years removed from his last NFL Snap.
dgreen
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
Well I don't think the Redskins should sign Vick but what you said just isn't correct. Atlanta ran a west coast offense, he made 3 pro bowls, and got them to the playoffs once.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Agree with most of what you said, but this obviously isn't true if they bring in Vick. Vick has more NFL starts than the Skins QBs combined.I'm not just nitpicking here. This, in my mind, is a legitimate argument for bringing him in. Collins is at the age when most QBs start to deteriorate rapidly. If there's a 29 year old QB out there with 67 NFL starts under his belt who comes cheap and would be willing to slide into the #2 spot on the depth chart, you have to at least look at him. Especially when he's played in the WCO before and also worked with an elite TE.
Take away the name and the image, and just imagine a random guy with Vick's stats and experience and tools who retired prematurely for some bizarre reason and now is looking to get back into the game. If that random guy comes cheap, and your QB corps is Jason Campbell, a 38 year old Todd Collins, and a couple college stars that nobody else in the NFL liked for the pro game, don't you have to consider him seriously?
dgreen
Footballguy
There is no evidence of this. Sure, ARE can throw, but running the Wildcat involves running up the middle some. He's not suited to run those types of plays in the NFL. I'm not sure what Portis has shown to prove this either. The Wildcat involves making split-second decisions of whether to hand the ball off or keep it yourself, then it involves a decision whether to pass or not. Not sure I'd want Portis doing that.
I'm not familiar with Vick being a personality problem. Was this true in Atlanta?
I agree with what Gibbs said recently when asked about Campbell and what he's been through this offseason. Gibbs said every QB that has big success in the NFL has to be mentally tough; they have to be able to handle these situations. If you can't handle some criticism and some people doubting you and some booing, then how will you handle a last-minute drive in a big game? So, if Campbell can't handle having Vick on the team, then Campbell likely isn't worth having as the unquestioned starter.
Um, so what's your prediction for this year with this "perfect" situation?
Agreed. I assume any signing would involve a workout and fairly lengthy interview.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
dgreen
Footballguy
Jarmon signed.And I guess Jarmon, too? Maybe this cut means they are close to signing one of them.I thought I read the other day that they still needed to open a spot to sign Orakpo. I could have my stories mixed up, though.Skins cut FB Jonathan Evans. Opening up a roster spot?
I am ok with Vick. Initially I was really turned off by the dogfighting, but he did serve his time in prison. The key question is: has he changed?
As far as signing Vick, the best case scenario for the Redskins is to sign him to a 1 year, minimal (may be more than the vet minimum) with a promise of a good contract if things work out well. Vick will be a backup, can learn the offense, show is is a good teammate, and get back into football shape. It would be similar to Hall's signing last year.
If Campbell leaves next year, Vick can become the starter and get a big Redskin contract. And that give Zorn a full off-season to modify the offense to fit Vicks unique skill set. I don't see them bringing in Vick just to run the Wildcat on the fly this year.
As far as signing Vick, the best case scenario for the Redskins is to sign him to a 1 year, minimal (may be more than the vet minimum) with a promise of a good contract if things work out well. Vick will be a backup, can learn the offense, show is is a good teammate, and get back into football shape. It would be similar to Hall's signing last year.
If Campbell leaves next year, Vick can become the starter and get a big Redskin contract. And that give Zorn a full off-season to modify the offense to fit Vicks unique skill set. I don't see them bringing in Vick just to run the Wildcat on the fly this year.
sinatravolta
Footballguy
I am against signing Vick because I think the team has a lot of potential and this would throw everything for a loop. Whoever signs Vick this year is going to have a big sideshow the whole year with the press constantly asking questions about him, etc. Some teams maybe could overcome this - but I think the Redskins are more fragile than that as a team.
Yes, to be a great QB you have to be able to overcome adversity and distractions, but Campbell has had more of that this offseason than he should have already. I think he has handled it very well and will be fine. But adding Vick to the picture makes it that much harder. If Campbell plays well this year, I don't see why the team would have trouble re-signing him. Snyder won't want to let a good QB get away, and if the team is successful and he's being offered a big contract, why would Campbell want to go? He doesn't strike me as someone to overly hold a grudge and do something just to spite the owner.
I think Vick would fit best on a bad team that needs a QB and isn't a threat to go far this year (e.g. Tampa Bay), or a team that is already good but has an old QB (e.g. Carolina). Actually - thinking about this makes me think why aren't more people talking about Carolina? The running yardage put up by that team adding Vick to Williams and Stewart would be amazing, and Vick could potentially throw some serious bombs to Steve Smith.
Yes, to be a great QB you have to be able to overcome adversity and distractions, but Campbell has had more of that this offseason than he should have already. I think he has handled it very well and will be fine. But adding Vick to the picture makes it that much harder. If Campbell plays well this year, I don't see why the team would have trouble re-signing him. Snyder won't want to let a good QB get away, and if the team is successful and he's being offered a big contract, why would Campbell want to go? He doesn't strike me as someone to overly hold a grudge and do something just to spite the owner.
I think Vick would fit best on a bad team that needs a QB and isn't a threat to go far this year (e.g. Tampa Bay), or a team that is already good but has an old QB (e.g. Carolina). Actually - thinking about this makes me think why aren't more people talking about Carolina? The running yardage put up by that team adding Vick to Williams and Stewart would be amazing, and Vick could potentially throw some serious bombs to Steve Smith.
buster c
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
No way. I'm just backing you up.I'm on your ignore list, aren't I, fatness.
fatness
Footballguy
This is good news. That guy may develop into a good d-lineman.
fatness
Footballguy
I don't know if you heard but Jim Johnson, the Eagles defensive coordinator who gave the Redskins and other teams so much trouble over the years, just died of cancer. You may want to stop over in the Eagles thread to add a kind word about his passing.
NFC East fans hate each other's teams but we usually get along with each other fairly well (with the exception of that one ####### Giants fan). A lot of them said some kind words when Sean Taylor died.
NFC East fans hate each other's teams but we usually get along with each other fairly well (with the exception of that one ####### Giants fan). A lot of them said some kind words when Sean Taylor died.
Wow. Very sad news. Jim Johnson was a very good DC and gave the Redskins and many other teams lots of problems.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Atlanta ran a WCO from '04-'06 with Vick under Sorry. Fixed.
PantherPower
Footballguy
No thanks. Unless he wants to backup Portis, I say let him go somewhere else.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
No way. I'm just backing you up.I'm on your ignore list, aren't I, fatness.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Mike Williams checks back for TC @ 342 lbs.
His story keeps getting better and better. He's pretty much done everything he should off the field (he blew past the weight goal of 370 before TC that the coaches set for him). Here's hoping he can continue his comeback and get it done on the field.ETA: The rest of that story is very promising for the OL in general. Guys are losing fat while getting stronger and better conditioned. Can't hurt to have a faster, stronger OL.
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Dexter Manley
Footballguy
Absolutely love what I'm reading in this article. Samuels lost almost 30 lbs, too. Like Buges said, this is the deepest our oline has been in a long time. If Randy Thomas is back to 100% (haven't heard anything lately) the oline is going to be significantly better than last year. And if the line holds up for the whole season, I would say we have a great chance of winning the division.Mike Williams checks back for TC @ 342 lbs.
His story keeps getting better and better. He's pretty much done everything he should off the field (he blew past the weight goal of 370 before TC that the coaches set for him). Here's hoping he can continue his comeback and get it done on the field.ETA: The rest of that story is very promising for the OL in general. Guys are losing fat while getting stronger and better conditioned. Can't hurt to have a faster, stronger OL.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Zorn presser going on right now.
So far:
-he's optimistic Orakpo will be signed on time soon, but it's somewhat out of his hands (players around him are not signed)
-no one coming in to camp injured/unable to practice; some players may be limited to one practice a day, but no serious injuries
ETA:
-Fred Davis is "making us put him on the field"
-Todd Collins definitely #2 QB, but Colt will be given every opportunity to see if he can take it
So far:
-he's optimistic Orakpo will be signed on time soon, but it's somewhat out of his hands (players around him are not signed)
-no one coming in to camp injured/unable to practice; some players may be limited to one practice a day, but no serious injuries
ETA:
-Fred Davis is "making us put him on the field"
-Todd Collins definitely #2 QB, but Colt will be given every opportunity to see if he can take it
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Sidewinder16
Footballguy
John Pappas (Extremeskins), Rick Snider, John Keim and Rich Tandler are collaborating on a new 'Skins web site, Warpath Confidential. They are also associating with the new 'Skins message board, Burgundy and Gold Obsession, recently formed by former Extremeskins staff.
fatness
Footballguy
From that article:
I had heard that this program was Dockery's idea. Anyone else hear that?
fatness
Footballguy
TRAINING CAMP!!!! 
fatness
Footballguy
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Also check out CBS Sports Rapid Reports. Apparently they have people in every training camp posting updates on highlights and news. Here are a few from this morning 'Skins practice:
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Well, at the risk of jinxing the entire season I'll say...
...at least there haven't been any season ending injuries yet!
...at least there haven't been any season ending injuries yet!
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Adam Schefter is at Redskins Park for the opening of TC today. One of his tweets:
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
For anyone who hasn't heard yet, the agency representing Orakpo (CAA) also represents 8 more 1st round picks (a record) from the #1 pick (Stafford) to the #19 pick (Maclin). Stafford was signed pre-draft, Darrius Heyward-Bey just signed today and I read somewhere that Jason Smith's deal is close to being done. I imagine the rest of the players represented by CAA will fall in relatively quickly as more deals get done. At the moment, I'd be surprised if Orakpo's "holdout" lasted longer than the weekend.
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