***Official*** 2009 Washington Redskins Thread (1 Viewer)

[fatness]

Vinnie sounded like a catty high school girl on the radio today. I heard some clips of his show, and if you get a chance listen to them. He far spent more time running down Steve Largent (who's Zorn's friend) than he did talking about words of support for Zorn.

There's no other GM in the league with such a huge lack of perspective on what the public relations part of the job entails. Really, you should hear the audio. Just like a #####y high school girl.

 

[southeastjerome]

Vinnie sounded like a catty high school girl on the radio today. I heard some clips of his show, and if you get a chance listen to them. He far spent more time running down Steve Largent (who's Zorn's friend) than he did talking about words of support for Zorn. There's no other GM in the league with such a huge lack of perspective on what the public relations part of the job entails. Really, you should hear the audio. Just like a #####y high school girl.

Interesting. Any links?

 

[Sidewinder16]

Vinnie sounded like a catty high school girl on the radio today. I heard some clips of his show, and if you get a chance listen to them. He far spent more time running down Steve Largent (who's Zorn's friend) than he did talking about words of support for Zorn. There's no other GM in the league with such a huge lack of perspective on what the public relations part of the job entails. Really, you should hear the audio. Just like a #####y high school girl.

Interesting. Any links?

redskins.com has a link for the radio program audio and the video of Vinny later in the day on Redskins Nation repeating most of the same stuff.

 

[Marvelous]

Not that this is any great scoop, and take it with the large grain of salt it deserves, but it helps confirm what many were already thinking. I was chatting with a friend from out of town last night who grew up in Alabama, is a huge Auburn fan, and has friends who are friends with Jason Campbell (I told you, large grain of salt). Any of them who have talked to Campbell recently are telling my friend that Campbell has told them he's ready to get out of D.C. Basically, it sounded like his main motivation to achieving any success this season is to get out of that organization as quick as possible.

I don't know Jason Campbell, but I assumed that he is leaving no matter who the new GM and head coach are. There is just too much bad history for him to come back no matter how much they try to clean house this offseason. The latest antics with Sherm Lewis does not help.

 

[Marvelous]

This is how Cerrato said it went down:

"Let me just talk about how I made the decision to take the take the responsibilities off of Jim's plate," he said. "So what happened was, was the game ends. So I'm in the locker room and the owners come up to me and they ask me,' How do we score more points?' And we're coming off against the 32nd-ranked defense, we score two field goals and have seven first downs. So I tell them, I recommended to them that Jim's plate is too full. He's the head coach, he's the offensive coordinator, he's the quarterback coach, let's take something off the plate to help him. So they said 'Ok, go talk to him.'

"So then I go into Jim's office at the stadium there. He's not there yet, he's coming from his press conference. And I sit down with him and he comes in, we sit down, we close the door. And contrary to what you read everywhere, it was just Jim and I. and I start to jump up and down like the clown that I am, waving his contract over my head like a terrible towell, telling him 'ya gotta do what Napoleon says!!!'

Did Vinny leave out the part about announcing to the world Zorn no longer calling plays that Sunday night? The Vinny version really does not match what was announced.

 

[buster c]

I'm looking forward to the day when this team turns things around and snyder acheives success with the skins and I hope vinny is there when it happens. Best believe I'll be here posting and rubbing you guys noses in it if it hapens.

 

[fatness]

Vinnie sounded like a catty high school girl on the radio today. I heard some clips of his show, and if you get a chance listen to them. He far spent more time running down Steve Largent (who's Zorn's friend) than he did talking about words of support for Zorn.

There's no other GM in the league with such a huge lack of perspective on what the public relations part of the job entails. Really, you should hear the audio. Just like a #####y high school girl.

Interesting. Any links?

It's the media file called "10/23/2009

ESPN 980: Cerrato

Redskins Executive VP of Football Operations Vinny Cerrato talks on ESPN 980 about how Jim Zorn will remain He"

on This Page. Take a listen. The stuff I talked about is near the beginning.

edit: Here's the direct link to the file itself, which you can download (it's an .flv file): Link

 

[TankRizzo]

As a skins fan I'm so disgusted at all the whining that is posted here by fellow skins fans. You guys come across as little girls whining all the time. I'm looking forward to the day when this team turns things around and snyder acheives success with the skins and I hope vinny is there when it happens. Best believe I'll be here posting and rubbing you guys noses in it if it hapens. You guys and your talk radio cohorts never get tired of useless bashing. All you guys do is air dirty laundry over and over along with your talk radio cohorts. I almost get the impression that you actually think snyder or cerratto give a #### about your insults and whatnot. Regardless of what everyone seems to think, football is not rocket science. They'll get it right at some point IMO.

you forgot to tag your joke with [/Larry Michaels]. But otherwise, good showing

 

[Maroney=Sped]

Not that this is any great scoop, and take it with the large grain of salt it deserves, but it helps confirm what many were already thinking. I was chatting with a friend from out of town last night who grew up in Alabama, is a huge Auburn fan, and has friends who are friends with Jason Campbell (I told you, large grain of salt). Any of them who have talked to Campbell recently are telling my friend that Campbell has told them he's ready to get out of D.C. Basically, it sounded like his main motivation to achieving any success this season is to get out of that organization as quick as possible.

I don't know Jason Campbell, but I assumed that he is leaving no matter who the new GM and head coach are. There is just too much bad history for him to come back no matter how much they try to clean house this offseason. The latest antics with Sherm Lewis does not help.

This whole situation with the team is a complete abortion.

 

[GoBirds]

As a skins fan I'm so disgusted at all the whining that is posted here by fellow skins fans. You guys come across as little girls whining all the time. I'm looking forward to the day when this team turns things around and snyder acheives success with the skins and I hope vinny is there when it happens. Best believe I'll be here posting and rubbing you guys noses in it if it hapens. You guys and your talk radio cohorts never get tired of useless bashing. All you guys do is air dirty laundry over and over along with your talk radio cohorts. I almost get the impression that you actually think snyder or cerratto give a #### about your insults and whatnot. Regardless of what everyone seems to think, football is not rocket science. They'll get it right at some point IMO.

Now that is hilarious.Snyder is going to turn it around, just wait.......

 

[fatness]

Samuels out for the year and most likely retiring.

More on Samuels:full article by Jason Reid

After learning he could become paralyzed if he continued to play football, Washington Redskins Pro Bowl left tackle Chris Samuels has told people in the organization he will sit out the remainder of the season and plans to retire. Samuels, who suffered a serious neck injury about two weeks ago against the Carolina Panthers, reached his decisions after consulting with many specialists, several of whom warned him about the possibility of no longer being able to walk if he attempted to prolong his career, league sources said. However, a source close to Samuels, 32, said he would not make a final determination on retirement until December or January -- and would withhold a public announcement until that time.

PFT

Samuels, we're told, has been experiencing numbness below the waist since injuring his neck two weeks ago.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

Samuels out for the year and most likely retiring.

More on Samuels:full article by Jason Reid

After learning he could become paralyzed if he continued to play football, Washington Redskins Pro Bowl left tackle Chris Samuels has told people in the organization he will sit out the remainder of the season and plans to retire. Samuels, who suffered a serious neck injury about two weeks ago against the Carolina Panthers, reached his decisions after consulting with many specialists, several of whom warned him about the possibility of no longer being able to walk if he attempted to prolong his career, league sources said. However, a source close to Samuels, 32, said he would not make a final determination on retirement until December or January -- and would withhold a public announcement until that time.

PFT

Samuels, we're told, has been experiencing numbness below the waist since injuring his neck two weeks ago.

I can't fault him at all for that decision. He's put in a good decade for a team that hasn't much rewarded him with consistent on-field success around him despite his best efforts. Godspeed with the rest of your life, Chris.

 

[southeastjerome]

Vinnie sounded like a catty high school girl on the radio today. I heard some clips of his show, and if you get a chance listen to them. He far spent more time running down Steve Largent (who's Zorn's friend) than he did talking about words of support for Zorn.

There's no other GM in the league with such a huge lack of perspective on what the public relations part of the job entails. Really, you should hear the audio. Just like a #####y high school girl.

Interesting. Any links?

It's the media file called "10/23/2009

ESPN 980: Cerrato

Redskins Executive VP of Football Operations Vinny Cerrato talks on ESPN 980 about how Jim Zorn will remain He"

on This Page. Take a listen. The stuff I talked about is near the beginning.

edit: Here's the direct link to the file itself, which you can download (it's an .flv file): Link

Thanks. Wow, I can't believe this is a guy who makes personnel decisions for the team we root for. He sounds looney. Living here in Mass. and hearing the Pats decision makers on the radio just shows how far the skins are from the Patriots as an organization.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

Vinnie sounded like a catty high school girl on the radio today. I heard some clips of his show, and if you get a chance listen to them. He far spent more time running down Steve Largent (who's Zorn's friend) than he did talking about words of support for Zorn.

There's no other GM in the league with such a huge lack of perspective on what the public relations part of the job entails. Really, you should hear the audio. Just like a #####y high school girl.

Interesting. Any links?

It's the media file called "10/23/2009

ESPN 980: Cerrato

Redskins Executive VP of Football Operations Vinny Cerrato talks on ESPN 980 about how Jim Zorn will remain He"

on This Page. Take a listen. The stuff I talked about is near the beginning.

edit: Here's the direct link to the file itself, which you can download (it's an .flv file): Link

Thanks. Wow, I can't believe this is a guy who makes personnel decisions for the team we root for. He sounds looney. Living here in Mass. and hearing the Pats decision makers on the radio just shows how far the skins are from the Patriots as an organization.

Back in the day with Beathard and Gibbs, and the Squire overseeing it all, the 'Skins were the class of the league, rivaled only by Walsh's 49'ers and Parcells' Giants. It's sad to see how far they've fallen.

 

[pablito]

When Zorn is gone, I just hope/pray he's an eruption of info on how poorly this organization is run. Especially if the cockroach Ceratto manages to stick around.

You know, we were talking about this at work the other day. Nobody leaves and bad mouths Snyderatto too much. Sure, some players have made a few comments here and there, but people are pretty quiet for the most part. Not much from Norv, Schotty, Spurrier (not that he has grounds to point fingers), and of course nothing from Gibbs. But, even assistant coaches aren't really saying much. Lavar recently said on his radio show that someone's going to write a book someday...but it won't be him. Why not? Why don't Snyder's ex-employees really come out and blast him after they leave? Does Snyder contractually give these guys hush money?

I was listening to Sirius the other morning and Marty was discussing the Washington situation with his cohost. I expected him to pile on as well, but he was surprisingly circumspect even while agreeing that things appeared pretty dysfunctional here. He even stated how much he liked Dan Snyder personally, which truly did shock me. Surely he's been gone long enough now that there can't be any more financial considerations involved, can there?

 

[Marvelous]

When Zorn is gone, I just hope/pray he's an eruption of info on how poorly this organization is run. Especially if the cockroach Ceratto manages to stick around.

You know, we were talking about this at work the other day. Nobody leaves and bad mouths Snyderatto too much. Sure, some players have made a few comments here and there, but people are pretty quiet for the most part. Not much from Norv, Schotty, Spurrier (not that he has grounds to point fingers), and of course nothing from Gibbs. But, even assistant coaches aren't really saying much. Lavar recently said on his radio show that someone's going to write a book someday...but it won't be him. Why not? Why don't Snyder's ex-employees really come out and blast him after they leave? Does Snyder contractually give these guys hush money?

I was listening to Sirius the other morning and Marty was discussing the Washington situation with his cohost. I expected him to pile on as well, but he was surprisingly circumspect even while agreeing that things appeared pretty dysfunctional here. He even stated how much he liked Dan Snyder personally, which truly did shock me. Surely he's been gone long enough now that there can't be any more financial considerations involved, can there?

Word is that Marty and Danny patchec up any differences they had and that they are friends now, not just non-enemies. If true, this does not surprise me.Also telling, if this is true, Snyder on a personal level may be an alright guy. Seriously, Joe Gibbs goes out of his way to say good things about Snyder. The Redskins have been poorly managed under Snyder, but you really don't see people who interact with him a great deal turn on him.I suspect at the end of this dismal season, Vinny Cerrato will be let go and all the season's shortcomings will be pinned on him. I do believe Vinny has been given a lot of responsiblitiy on running the Redskins since Gibbs left, and the team is reflecting his (mis)management. With Vinny gone, Snyder will then have a clean slate to bring in a real football guys to make the personnel decisions. Snyder will still be in charge of contract negotiaions and where Redskin 1 flies, as well as all non-football operations.

 

[PantherPower]

Call me crazy, but I've always thought Vinny was more to blame more than Snyder. I mean, Snyder just writes the checks. He's not making the draft picks, and deciding on the free agents by himself. NO WAY. If he could get someone that doesn't look like Men at Work's lead singer on coke, he'd probably do wonders.

 

[Bizkiteer]

Call me crazy, but I've always thought Vinny was more to blame more than Snyder. I mean, Snyder just writes the checks. He's not making the draft picks, and deciding on the free agents by himself. NO WAY. If he could get someone that doesn't look like Men at Work's lead singer on coke, he'd probably do wonders.

Vinny is running it, but it's Snyder who hired him and has kept him in the position for far too long. So, maybe all the football decisions are just Vinny's fault (doubt it), but it's DanMan that has allowed him to become the Boy Blunder.

 

[Sebowski]

The only blame I put directly on Snyder is Bruce Smith/Deon Sanders/Mark Carrier haul, and getting rid of Schottenhiemer for Spurrier. The rest have been honest mistakes in my opinion that could have gone either way.He will get this right. I am sure of it. I just don't know when.

 

[thayman]

The fire is burning pretty hard right now and it's only going to get worse. It's like people are coming out of the woodwork. Largent, John Kent Cooke, Post articles, the outright nastiness of the fanbase right now. Then the shock by Kornheiser by the "sell the team" chant...I really don't get. All of this is so refreshingly amazing. If Snyder doesn't "get it" in the very near future, this train wreck is going to be extremely fun to watch.

A couple other people have commented on this also. 2 weeks ago Zorn was the villain and we wanted him run out of town. Now suddenly he's a bumbling hero. Amazingly bad PR job by Snyder and Cerrato.And it's nice that they're not so insulated from fan discontent now, or from national criticism.

I don't care how good they are at PR. Let all the Crhis Carters, Sally Jenkins, and Warren Sapps get their shots in while it is cheap. They were right to strip Zorn of play calling. He can't handle it and neither can Sherman Smith. It was the only way to salvage the season. What it looks like shouldn't be important. In fact, there would be a lot of criticism (and rightfully so) if Snyder didn;t do it because it wouldn't look good. Snyder has pointed himself into a can't win corner. Only thing to do is walk through the paint to the shoe store.

This is where you're wrong. There is no way to "salvage" this season. You hired a man to do a job. Let him do his job and succeed or fail as he will. Ironically, by undercutting Zorn they've actually managed to confuse the issue as to whether the offense's performance is his fault.

This mid-season change, particularly to Sherman Smith of all people, has nothing to do with saving a season which is already lost, and everything to do with undercutting Zorn and trying to get him to resign.

It's pathetic and I hope Redskins fans, whatever they think of Zorn, stop defending Snyder here.

Zorn is doing a crappy job. It's his fault for hiring his pal as his OC to begin with.

 

[thayman]

I don't care how good they are at PR. Let all the Crhis Carters, Sally Jenkins, and Warren Sapps get their shots in while it is cheap. They were right to strip Zorn of play calling. He can't handle it and neither can Sherman Smith. It was the only way to salvage the season. What it looks like shouldn't be important. In fact, there would be a lot of criticism (and rightfully so) if Snyder didn;t do it because it wouldn't look good. Snyder has pointed himself into a can't win corner. Only thing to do is walk through the paint to the shoe store.

There was a good bit of agreement, amongst all of us and among others around the country who follow football, that Zorn was not doing a good job of playcalling. The way any effective organization handles something like this is to talk privately to the employee, explain why you want part of their job delegated to someone else, that it's a change you're requiring, and work out with the employee how to do it in a way that embarrasses them the least and visibly supports them when they announce the change. You give them an opportunity to make it appear their idea, one they want to try for the benefit of the company.If you just make the change over their head, visibly, either you have no clue how to get the best out of people or you want the employee to be visibly undermined and to fail.

So which is it? Snyder wants to embarrass him and for him to fail? Or Snyder has no clue how to get the best out of people?

As a fan I couldn't care less how embarassing it was for Zorn. His play calling has been nothing short of a complete embarassment.

 

[Marvelous]

I don't care how good they are at PR. Let all the Crhis Carters, Sally Jenkins, and Warren Sapps get their shots in while it is cheap. They were right to strip Zorn of play calling. He can't handle it and neither can Sherman Smith. It was the only way to salvage the season. What it looks like shouldn't be important. In fact, there would be a lot of criticism (and rightfully so) if Snyder didn;t do it because it wouldn't look good. Snyder has pointed himself into a can't win corner. Only thing to do is walk through the paint to the shoe store.

There was a good bit of agreement, amongst all of us and among others around the country who follow football, that Zorn was not doing a good job of playcalling. The way any effective organization handles something like this is to talk privately to the employee, explain why you want part of their job delegated to someone else, that it's a change you're requiring, and work out with the employee how to do it in a way that embarrasses them the least and visibly supports them when they announce the change. You give them an opportunity to make it appear their idea, one they want to try for the benefit of the company.If you just make the change over their head, visibly, either you have no clue how to get the best out of people or you want the employee to be visibly undermined and to fail.

So which is it? Snyder wants to embarrass him and for him to fail? Or Snyder has no clue how to get the best out of people?

As a fan I couldn't care less how embarassing it was for Zorn. His play calling has been nothing short of a complete embarassment.

I just had a talk to my kids about the doing things the right way. I have no problems taking the play calling away from Zorn. I have a problem with the way Cerrato did it and how he announced it. He did not do it the right way.

 

[Marvelous]

Call me crazy, but I've always thought Vinny was more to blame more than Snyder. I mean, Snyder just writes the checks. He's not making the draft picks, and deciding on the free agents by himself. NO WAY. If he could get someone that doesn't look like Men at Work's lead singer on coke, he'd probably do wonders.

Vinny is running it, but it's Snyder who hired him and has kept him in the position for far too long. So, maybe all the football decisions are just Vinny's fault (doubt it), but it's DanMan that has allowed him to become the Boy Blunder.

My impression is that Vinny is pretty much running the Redskin's football operations. But Snyder has more input than he probably should (think about the Chad Johnson rumors last year). Of course, Vinny is a pal of Snyder's, so if Snyder suggest something, there is a good chance Vinny will go along with it.If/when Snyder hires an outside football guys with real experience, Snyder's opinion probably won't count as much.I really think is Snyder jettisons Ceratto and gets a football guys with experience, the most fans will give him some credit for trying to fix the Redskins.

 

[thayman]

I don't care how good they are at PR. Let all the Crhis Carters, Sally Jenkins, and Warren Sapps get their shots in while it is cheap. They were right to strip Zorn of play calling. He can't handle it and neither can Sherman Smith. It was the only way to salvage the season. What it looks like shouldn't be important. In fact, there would be a lot of criticism (and rightfully so) if Snyder didn;t do it because it wouldn't look good. Snyder has pointed himself into a can't win corner. Only thing to do is walk through the paint to the shoe store.

There was a good bit of agreement, amongst all of us and among others around the country who follow football, that Zorn was not doing a good job of playcalling. The way any effective organization handles something like this is to talk privately to the employee, explain why you want part of their job delegated to someone else, that it's a change you're requiring, and work out with the employee how to do it in a way that embarrasses them the least and visibly supports them when they announce the change. You give them an opportunity to make it appear their idea, one they want to try for the benefit of the company.If you just make the change over their head, visibly, either you have no clue how to get the best out of people or you want the employee to be visibly undermined and to fail.

So which is it? Snyder wants to embarrass him and for him to fail? Or Snyder has no clue how to get the best out of people?

As a fan I couldn't care less how embarassing it was for Zorn. His play calling has been nothing short of a complete embarassment.

I just had a talk to my kids about the doing things the right way. I have no problems taking the play calling away from Zorn. I have a problem with the way Cerrato did it and how he announced it. He did not do it the right way.

Cerrato is a deuche, but blame Cerrato, not Snyder. Since Gibbs left I've been under the impression that this is Cerrato's team.

 

[thayman]

Call me crazy, but I've always thought Vinny was more to blame more than Snyder. I mean, Snyder just writes the checks. He's not making the draft picks, and deciding on the free agents by himself. NO WAY. If he could get someone that doesn't look like Men at Work's lead singer on coke, he'd probably do wonders.

Vinny is running it, but it's Snyder who hired him and has kept him in the position for far too long. So, maybe all the football decisions are just Vinny's fault (doubt it), but it's DanMan that has allowed him to become the Boy Blunder.

My impression is that Vinny is pretty much running the Redskin's football operations. But Snyder has more input than he probably should (think about the Chad Johnson rumors last year). Of course, Vinny is a pal of Snyder's, so if Snyder suggest something, there is a good chance Vinny will go along with it.If/when Snyder hires an outside football guys with real experience, Snyder's opinion probably won't count as much.I really think is Snyder jettisons Ceratto and gets a football guys with experience, the most fans will give him some credit for trying to fix the Redskins.

Snyder has to fire Ceratto. Every other avenue has been taken. The hot young assistant, the up and comer from the college ranks, HOF glory days coach, There isn't any other option left on the table.

 

[Sebowski]

The fire is burning pretty hard right now and it's only going to get worse. It's like people are coming out of the woodwork. Largent, John Kent Cooke, Post articles, the outright nastiness of the fanbase right now. Then the shock by Kornheiser by the "sell the team" chant...I really don't get. All of this is so refreshingly amazing. If Snyder doesn't "get it" in the very near future, this train wreck is going to be extremely fun to watch.

A couple other people have commented on this also. 2 weeks ago Zorn was the villain and we wanted him run out of town. Now suddenly he's a bumbling hero. Amazingly bad PR job by Snyder and Cerrato.And it's nice that they're not so insulated from fan discontent now, or from national criticism.

I don't care how good they are at PR. Let all the Crhis Carters, Sally Jenkins, and Warren Sapps get their shots in while it is cheap. They were right to strip Zorn of play calling. He can't handle it and neither can Sherman Smith. It was the only way to salvage the season. What it looks like shouldn't be important. In fact, there would be a lot of criticism (and rightfully so) if Snyder didn;t do it because it wouldn't look good. Snyder has pointed himself into a can't win corner. Only thing to do is walk through the paint to the shoe store.

This is where you're wrong. There is no way to "salvage" this season. You hired a man to do a job. Let him do his job and succeed or fail as he will. Ironically, by undercutting Zorn they've actually managed to confuse the issue as to whether the offense's performance is his fault.

This mid-season change, particularly to Sherman Smith of all people, has nothing to do with saving a season which is already lost, and everything to do with undercutting Zorn and trying to get him to resign.

It's pathetic and I hope Redskins fans, whatever they think of Zorn, stop defending Snyder here.

Zorn is doing a crappy job. It's his fault for hiring his pal as his OC to begin with.

You're right. I wish Snyder would meddle in these decisions more and forced him to hire someone with experience.

 

[burgundy and gold]

WHAT IF ... The REDSKINS beat the Eagles on Monday night. What are the ramifications? That would probably entail #1- the D got pressure, turn-overs, and took the next step over-all. #2- the o-line looked alot better than they did against KC. #3- Campbell and the play calling improved. #4- THE SEASON IS NOT OVER!

 

[Maroney=Sped]

I don't care how good they are at PR. Let all the Crhis Carters, Sally Jenkins, and Warren Sapps get their shots in while it is cheap. They were right to strip Zorn of play calling. He can't handle it and neither can Sherman Smith. It was the only way to salvage the season. What it looks like shouldn't be important. In fact, there would be a lot of criticism (and rightfully so) if Snyder didn;t do it because it wouldn't look good. Snyder has pointed himself into a can't win corner. Only thing to do is walk through the paint to the shoe store.

There was a good bit of agreement, amongst all of us and among others around the country who follow football, that Zorn was not doing a good job of playcalling. The way any effective organization handles something like this is to talk privately to the employee, explain why you want part of their job delegated to someone else, that it's a change you're requiring, and work out with the employee how to do it in a way that embarrasses them the least and visibly supports them when they announce the change. You give them an opportunity to make it appear their idea, one they want to try for the benefit of the company.If you just make the change over their head, visibly, either you have no clue how to get the best out of people or you want the employee to be visibly undermined and to fail.

So which is it? Snyder wants to embarrass him and for him to fail? Or Snyder has no clue how to get the best out of people?

As a fan I couldn't care less how embarassing it was for Zorn. His play calling has been nothing short of a complete embarassment.

I just had a talk to my kids about the doing things the right way. I have no problems taking the play calling away from Zorn. I have a problem with the way Cerrato did it and how he announced it. He did not do it the right way.

 

[TxBuckeye]

WHAT IF ... The REDSKINS beat the Eagles on Monday night. What are the ramifications?

They'd draft lower in the first round next year. That's about it.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

Snyder has to fire Ceratto. Every other avenue has been taken. The hot young assistant, the up and comer from the college ranks, HOF glory days coach, There isn't any other option left on the table.

Zorn wasn't "the hot young assistant". I thought he was at the time, but he wasn't, and I don't say that because of his performance here in Washington. As I've learned since he was hired, there were a lot of raised eyebrows when he was hired even as a OC and a play-caller. He wasn't regarded as a great coaching prospect, and he was never really even much of an offensive insider in Seattle. Even Hasselbeck, who many credit Zorn with coaching up, was apparently largely coached by Holmgren rather than Zorn. Cerrato should have known this. . . In fact, he may have known this and hired Zorn out of desperation given that the real "hot young assistants" like Spaguolo and Schwartz wanted nothing to do with this job. This is what happens, however, when your organization is so dysfunctional that its reputation gets sullied.

 

[fatness]

I have no problems taking the play calling away from Zorn. I have a problem with the way Cerrato did it and how he announced it. He did not do it the right way.

Zorn was doing a bad job of it, there's no way around that. But relieving him of the responsibility publicly was done badly when it should have been done in private. And playcalling should have been handed off to someone else on staff who could do it which, whoops, the Redskins apparently didn't have. Underqualified coach, underqualified OC (the invisible Sherman Smith), underperforming offense. Add to that the paper-thin, old, previously-injured offensive line, the WR's who are like ants at a picnic (excepting Moss, there's a million of them and they're all useless), the public attempts to replace the QB in the offseason, and if it's not obvious from all that that Cerrato's unqualified then it never will be.

Then add his girlish, catty comments on the radio the other day and it's clear he's a buffoon. What other GM in the league would consider a long negative rant on the radio about his head coach's friend to be part of his job?

That's clownish. And sad.

 

[PantherPower]

I would be absolutely shocked if we beat the Eagles Monday. I seriously doubt Reid takes this game lightly after their embarrassing loss last weekend. Now if this was the NFC Championship, I'd feel a lot better.

 

[fatness]

WHAT IF ... The REDSKINS beat the Eagles on Monday night. What are the ramifications?

With their defense the Redskins have the possiblity of winning any game on their schedule. It would take a strong defensive effort, some turnovers, some moderate sparks of life from the offense, and several breaks or oddball plays, but it could happen. They can also lose any game on the schedule, if those things don't happen in the game.So the odds are they lose more than they win from here on out. One game won't define anything.

 

[fatness]

You're right. I wish Snyder would meddle in these decisions more and forced him to hire someone with experience.

When you don't hire a qualified coach or qualified GM, your choices come down to constant meddling or letting things deteriorate. 2 bad choices.

 

[fatness]

Cerrato should have known this. . . In fact, he may have known this and hired Zorn out of desperation given that the real "hot young assistants" like Spaguolo and Schwartz wanted nothing to do with this job. This is what happens, however, when your organization is so dysfunctional that its reputation gets sullied.

Nobody but Jim F. Fassell wanted this job. Nobody. Now think of what it'll be like next time around hiring a coach. The millions of dollars will go up and up and up as they try to get some ex-NFL coach to bite on 'honest, I won't meddle, now just sign here'.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

Cerrato should have known this. . . In fact, he may have known this and hired Zorn out of desperation given that the real "hot young assistants" like Spaguolo and Schwartz wanted nothing to do with this job. This is what happens, however, when your organization is so dysfunctional that its reputation gets sullied.

Nobody but Jim F. Fassell wanted this job. Nobody. Now think of what it'll be like next time around hiring a coach. The millions of dollars will go up and up and up as they try to get some ex-NFL coach to bite on 'honest, I won't meddle, now just sign here'.

Given what's been said, I wonder if Schotty would come back. Honestly, they need a "name" in that head coaching job to be successful for a few years to regain some semblance of respectability. That should have been allowed to happen the first time with Schotty.

 

[pablito]

Cerrato should have known this. . . In fact, he may have known this and hired Zorn out of desperation given that the real "hot young assistants" like Spaguolo and Schwartz wanted nothing to do with this job. This is what happens, however, when your organization is so dysfunctional that its reputation gets sullied.

Nobody but Jim F. Fassell wanted this job. Nobody. Now think of what it'll be like next time around hiring a coach. The millions of dollars will go up and up and up as they try to get some ex-NFL coach to bite on 'honest, I won't meddle, now just sign here'.

Given what's been said, I wonder if Schotty would come back. Honestly, they need a "name" in that head coaching job to be successful for a few years to regain some semblance of respectability. That should have been allowed to happen the first time with Schotty.

Again from hearing him on Sirius, it sounds like Marty is committed to his retirement from head coaching. He has talked about how he had owed his wife for a long time and now they were really enjoying travelling together and such. I'd be surprised to see him in any HC discussions with anyone going forward.

 

[burgundy and gold]

WHAT IF ... The REDSKINS beat the Eagles on Monday night. What are the ramifications?

With their defense the Redskins have the possiblity of winning any game on their schedule. It would take a strong defensive effort, some turnovers, some moderate sparks of life from the offense, and several breaks or oddball plays, but it could happen. They can also lose any game on the schedule, if those things don't happen in the game.So the odds are they lose more than they win from here on out. One game won't define anything.

You're completely correct in your sentiments, that is until you misjudged the odds there at the end. Key phrase, "moderate sparks of life from the offense". Sparks can become flames. In which case the odds would turn in the Redskins favor, given the afforementioned "With their defense the Redskins have the possibility of winning any game on their schedule".I believe in this team. And I'd like to add that Zorn isn't necessarily a complete failure at the head coach spot just because he lost the play calling duties. Nobody in this organization deserves to be fired right now. IF the system itself shows improvement the rest of the way then I say that everything should stay as is, we take 2 O-lineman a D-lineman and a linebacker in the 2010 draft and be patient.

 

[Sebowski]

I don't care how good they are at PR. Let all the Crhis Carters, Sally Jenkins, and Warren Sapps get their shots in while it is cheap. They were right to strip Zorn of play calling. He can't handle it and neither can Sherman Smith. It was the only way to salvage the season. What it looks like shouldn't be important. In fact, there would be a lot of criticism (and rightfully so) if Snyder didn;t do it because it wouldn't look good. Snyder has pointed himself into a can't win corner. Only thing to do is walk through the paint to the shoe store.

There was a good bit of agreement, amongst all of us and among others around the country who follow football, that Zorn was not doing a good job of playcalling. The way any effective organization handles something like this is to talk privately to the employee, explain why you want part of their job delegated to someone else, that it's a change you're requiring, and work out with the employee how to do it in a way that embarrasses them the least and visibly supports them when they announce the change. You give them an opportunity to make it appear their idea, one they want to try for the benefit of the company.If you just make the change over their head, visibly, either you have no clue how to get the best out of people or you want the employee to be visibly undermined and to fail.

So which is it? Snyder wants to embarrass him and for him to fail? Or Snyder has no clue how to get the best out of people?

As a fan I couldn't care less how embarassing it was for Zorn. His play calling has been nothing short of a complete embarassment.

I just had a talk to my kids about the doing things the right way. I have no problems taking the play calling away from Zorn. I have a problem with the way Cerrato did it and how he announced it. He did not do it the right way.

Everyone here seems to keep reiterating this. Zorn was the one that made this an issue right away. We know there was a meeting right after the game where it was made pretty clear to Zorn that he was being stripped. From there it is on Zorn to come out and say he hope this works and maybe it will help, balblahblah. Instead Zorn whined to Largent and has said it wasn;t his idea and he isn;t comfortable with it every chance he gets. Zorn has no idea how to handle the media. He should have been saying similar things about bringing in Lewis in the first place, but instead he #####ed and moaned about that too. I always knew Zorn sucked with the media, but it really hit home on how much he actually hurts the team with his comments when Albert was banined up beofre the Bucs game. He was asked how Albert was doing and he told the reporters "he is doing alright. He just can't move well laterally" Thanks, coach. How about letting them know Thomas only runs go routes and Orakpo has trouble with play-action?

 

[fatness]

Everyone here seems to keep reiterating this. Zorn was the one that made this an issue right away. We know there was a meeting right after the game where it was made pretty clear to Zorn that he was being stripped. From there it is on Zorn to come out and say he hope this works and maybe it will help, balblahblah. Instead Zorn whined to Largent and has said it wasn;t his idea and he isn;t comfortable with it every chance he gets. Zorn has no idea how to handle the media. He should have been saying similar things about bringing in Lewis in the first place, but instead he #####ed and moaned about that too. I always knew Zorn sucked with the media, but it really hit home on how much he actually hurts the team with his comments when Albert was banined up beofre the Bucs game. He was asked how Albert was doing and he told the reporters "he is doing alright. He just can't move well laterally" Thanks, coach. How about letting them know Thomas only runs go routes and Orakpo has trouble with play-action?

Who chose Zorn as coach?All you're doing is deflecting blame from where it belongs. You're blaming fans, blaming the media, blaming Zorn. None of them hired Cerrato. None of them hired Zorn. None of them let the o-line completely destroy the team for 2 years in a row. Who did those things?

 

[fatness]

You're completely correct in your sentiments, that is until you misjudged the odds there at the end. Key phrase, "moderate sparks of life from the offense". Sparks can become flames. In which case the odds would turn in the Redskins favor, given the afforementioned "With their defense the Redskins have the possibility of winning any game on their schedule".I believe in this team.

I appreciate your rooting so hard for them, and I root just as hard. No amount of bad fortune or ####### lame-### owner's going to keep me from rooting for my team. But I don't believe there is much chance of having a sustained, moderately-effective offense with this ridiculous wreck of an offensive line. And without an o-line a team is essentially going to take miracles to be a .500 team. That's what we're left to root for at this point --- miracles.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

You're completely correct in your sentiments, that is until you misjudged the odds there at the end. Key phrase, "moderate sparks of life from the offense". Sparks can become flames. In which case the odds would turn in the Redskins favor, given the afforementioned "With their defense the Redskins have the possibility of winning any game on their schedule".I believe in this team.

I appreciate your rooting so hard for them, and I root just as hard. No amount of bad fortune or ####### lame-### owner's going to keep me from rooting for my team. But I don't believe there is much chance of having a sustained, moderately-effective offense with this ridiculous wreck of an offensive line. And without an o-line a team is essentially going to take miracles to be a .500 team. That's what we're left to root for at this point --- miracles.

It's a testament to how bad the offensive line is that Zorn and the offensive coaching staff are not even close to being the biggest offensive problem. How do I know this? Just compare last year to this year . . .

 

[fatness]

It's a testament to how bad the offensive line is that Zorn and the offensive coaching staff are not even close to being the biggest offensive problem.

How do I know this? Just compare last year to this year . . .

Last season completely crashed and burned when the offensive line injuries happened and there were no suitable backups. Dockery was signed, that was good. But there was no effective backup for Samuels who has often been injured. There was no suitable backup for Thomas, who was so injured that the staff held him out of most preseason work because they knew he'd get hurt again and couldn't last a whole season. Rinehart was a bust last year and this year. Rabach spent all last year getting pushed back into Campbell, and now he's suddenly the anchor of the whole o-line. Stephon Heyer is a nice guy whose best quality is that he's not an over-the-hill Jon Jansen. Heyer wouldn't start for another team. Here, he's vital. Mike Williams can't pass block. The offensive line hasn't just been neglected; it's been a victim of gross negligence.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

It's a testament to how bad the offensive line is that Zorn and the offensive coaching staff are not even close to being the biggest offensive problem.

How do I know this? Just compare last year to this year . . .

Last season completely crashed and burned when the offensive line injuries happened and there were no suitable backups. Dockery was signed, that was good. But there was no effective backup for Samuels who has often been injured. There was no suitable backup for Thomas, who was so injured that the staff held him out of most preseason work because they knew he'd get hurt again and couldn't last a whole season. Rinehart was a bust last year and this year. Rabach spent all last year getting pushed back into Campbell, and now he's suddenly the anchor of the whole o-line. Stephon Heyer is a nice guy whose best quality is that he's not an over-the-hill Jon Jansen. Heyer wouldn't start for another team. Here, he's vital. Mike Williams can't pass block. The offensive line hasn't just been neglected; it's been a victim of gross negligence.

Exactly. There is perfect correlation between the decline of the offense and the crumbling of the offensive line. With a decent to good line, the offense would actually be ok even with the current coaching staff. Nothing earth-shattering, but certainly capable of throwing up 15-20 points rather than the embarrassing showing we've been seeing this year. Said another way, Zorn hasn't gotten worse during his coaching tenure, and in fact by all accounts the offense should be better all things being equal because the system is now fully installed and learned by the players.

Why, then, is the offense so much worse than last year? It has everything to do with the fact that the only healthy OL's are two of the three worst starting OL's on the roster going into the season.

 

[Sebowski]

Everyone here seems to keep reiterating this. Zorn was the one that made this an issue right away. We know there was a meeting right after the game where it was made pretty clear to Zorn that he was being stripped. From there it is on Zorn to come out and say he hope this works and maybe it will help, balblahblah. Instead Zorn whined to Largent and has said it wasn;t his idea and he isn;t comfortable with it every chance he gets. Zorn has no idea how to handle the media. He should have been saying similar things about bringing in Lewis in the first place, but instead he #####ed and moaned about that too. I always knew Zorn sucked with the media, but it really hit home on how much he actually hurts the team with his comments when Albert was banined up beofre the Bucs game. He was asked how Albert was doing and he told the reporters "he is doing alright. He just can't move well laterally" Thanks, coach. How about letting them know Thomas only runs go routes and Orakpo has trouble with play-action?

Who chose Zorn as coach?All you're doing is deflecting blame from where it belongs. You're blaming fans, blaming the media, blaming Zorn. None of them hired Cerrato. None of them hired Zorn. None of them let the o-line completely destroy the team for 2 years in a row.

Who did those things?

Vinny chose Zorn. That is why he will be fired if Zorn doesn't succeed. Works for me.As far as the line, like I said here:

I blame the line on Vinny and Bugel.

There is not one way to build a team or a line. You just have to get the right guys and/or coach them up properly.

The Dolphins only drafted two of the five starters on their line.

The Colts highest pick lineman is a 2nd rounder. They have two undrafted guys and a sixth rounder as well

The Giants drafted Snee in the 2nd, Diehl in the 5th, have two undrafted guys, and their 5th is from the Jets.

The Falcons have a 1st rounder, 2nd rounder, 7th rounder, and two undrafted guys starting on their line.

The Vikings have a 1st round tackle, a 2nd round tackle, a free agent (Hutch), a 6th rounder, and an undrafted guy.

The Saints have a 2nd rounder, two 4ths, and two 5ths, with one of those guys drafted by another team.

The Bengals are running the ball extremely well and winning games with only two guys that they drafted playing line. One in the 2nd and one in the 4th.

Bugel deserves 1,000% more blame for the line than he is getting.

 

[thayman]

Cerrato should have known this. . . In fact, he may have known this and hired Zorn out of desperation given that the real "hot young assistants" like Spaguolo and Schwartz wanted nothing to do with this job. This is what happens, however, when your organization is so dysfunctional that its reputation gets sullied.

Nobody but Jim F. Fassell wanted this job. Nobody. Now think of what it'll be like next time around hiring a coach. The millions of dollars will go up and up and up as they try to get some ex-NFL coach to bite on 'honest, I won't meddle, now just sign here'.

Next time around hiring a coach should be awesome if Cerrato is gone. If Snyder fires Cerrato, as he should, and hires a competent GM I wouldn't think the team would have many issues picking up a coach.

 

[fatness]

Next time around hiring a coach should be awesome if Cerrato is gone. If Snyder fires Cerrato, as he should, and hires a competent GM I wouldn't think the team would have many issues picking up a coach.

I think if the coaching candidates are convinced that the GM actually makes the decisions, instead of deferring to what Snyder wants, that that would go a long way towards the credibility and structure a candidate would want to see when considering the job. And of course they'd consider the GM's experience/reputation/knowledge also.

 

[thayman]

Next time around hiring a coach should be awesome if Cerrato is gone. If Snyder fires Cerrato, as he should, and hires a competent GM I wouldn't think the team would have many issues picking up a coach.

I think if the coaching candidates are convinced that the GM actually makes the decisions, instead of deferring to what Snyder wants, that that would go a long way towards the credibility and structure a candidate would want to see when considering the job. And of course they'd consider the GM's experience/reputation/knowledge also.

Well how much this year has it been what Snyder wants? Other than Haynesworth I can't think of anything that has just Snyder all over it. I think Snyder listens to Cerrato too much, and if you put a competent GM with Snyder you would see vast improvement.

 

[fatness]

Well how much this year has it been what Snyder wants? Other than Haynesworth I can't think of anything that has just Snyder all over it. I think Snyder listens to Cerrato too much, and if you put a competent GM with Snyder you would see vast improvement.

Well we can't know because we're not privy to the conversations between Snyder and Cerrato, so we only have what we've seen and heard before to go on. So look at the opposite question as well: what is it Snyder has wanted that you think that Cerrato has said 'no' to? I don't think it would be much, if anything. Cerrato owes his job to being compliant when he needs to be, and probably flattering as well. Not to his ability which sucks.

 

[thayman]

Well how much this year has it been what Snyder wants? Other than Haynesworth I can't think of anything that has just Snyder all over it. I think Snyder listens to Cerrato too much, and if you put a competent GM with Snyder you would see vast improvement.

Well we can't know because we're not privy to the conversations between Snyder and Cerrato, so we only have what we've seen and heard before to go on. So look at the opposite question as well: what is it Snyder has wanted that you think that Cerrato has said 'no' to? I don't think it would be much, if anything. Cerrato owes his job to being compliant when he needs to be, and probably flattering as well. Not to his ability which sucks.

Cerrato has really been the face of the Front Office since Gibbs left. Since then it has seemed to me that Snyder has backed off and made a few demands of some FAs he wants, the rest has been up to Cerrato.