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*** Official 2012-13 Hot Stove Thread (1 Viewer)

'Eephus said:
'Good said:
'scrumptrulescent said:
'scoobus said:
scrump, you get offended anytime someone says anything about the Tigers. Lighten up, Francis.Eephus is constantly bringing the knowledge, A+ poster.
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True....it ended badly and I'm still pissy. However I've had my fill of him pouring salt in the wounds.
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I take it you won't be asking Eephus for his autograph?
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Scrump is my Sabean proxy for the next 11 months
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Sounds kinky.
 
'the moops said:
'shadyridr said:
'the moops said:
'Matthias said:
Napoli oWAR* 26-30 seasons (2008-2012): 15.6Martinez oWAR* 26-30 seasons (2005-2009): 18.4* Offensive Wins over Replacement only. Defense not included.
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Napoli has 800 fewer PA's than Martinez over that time frame
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Hitters with such "high ceilings" tend to play more
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:rolleyes:
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Roll your eyes all you want, Napoli has essentially been a platoon player every year but one.Here is his line from 2010 the only year he played more than 115 games:.238/.316/.468/.7843/$39m :moneybag:
 
Joakim Soria to the Rangers; 2 years - 8-9 million

Guess might not be completely ready by Opening Day, but should fit into that 8th inning role behind Nathan nicely.

 
'Good said:
The Yankees have to be at least half-seriously considering having A-Rod murdered, right?
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:lmao:I do wonder when they're going to finally pay some other team to take him off their hands. Last year's numbers weren't horrible if you ignore his salary.
 
'Dr. Awesome said:
'Good said:
The Yankees have to be at least half-seriously considering having A-Rod murdered, right?
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:lmao:I do wonder when they're going to finally pay some other team to take him off their hands. Last year's numbers weren't horrible if you ignore his salary.
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He's looking pretty bad against righties. Maybe he's fresh after the hip surgery, but 2013 looks like a lost cause. And he's trucking towards 40.
 
Someone called Eephus annoying, seriously? My God, Eephus is about the best poster around here - never seen him been in the slightest bit annoying to anyone.

And Napoli overpriced? Well, yeah, but I don't think it's as grievous a stretch as the esteemed Dr. Detroit makes it out to be. Obviously there was a pretty good market for him, and if Russell Martin can get about 8.5 million/year, 5 years removed from posting a ops+ over 100, I think Napoli getting paid 13/year where every year but one he has posted at least a 110 ops+, well that seems pretty decent to me (yeah, I'm a red sox fan). Plus, he'll be playing catcher, DH, and 1B and will fill a pretty good hole in the middle of the lineup. And the Sox have freed up quite a bit of money last year, no? And at three years, well, let's just say I like the duration a hell of a lot more than a few other contracts they recently signed at crazy money for crazy lengths. This one is not break the bank type deal for a cash strapped club. Sometimes, that's the rub of being a big market/big money team. Yeah, you may get a bargain or two on short deals with players looking to win, but you have to overpay a bit here and there to fill out your team - and let's face it, the 2013 Red Sox will be lucky to win 85 games.

And I am not so sure I love the Soria deal as much as others either. He's coming of TJ surgery, and will miss at least the beginning of next year - and even before he got hurt, his 2012 numbers were less than satisfactory. To me, there are red flags all over. And for my money, relievers are very replaceable. Rangers had some money and Soria may be okay, but that bullpen has a number of guys coming off major surgeries. Cross your fingers. They can always throw Feliz back there too I suppose, so it's a decent risk.....and they got lucky with Nathan last year - hopefully they get lucky again.

And whats up with the Mets "shopping" Dickey?? I mean what the #### are they expecting in return for a 38 year old pitcher with 61 lifetime wins (1/3 of those last year??????) Yeah, they may be stuck in a bit of a spot, Dickey wants to get paid, and Mets don't want to let him go for nothing, so I understand, but why not just bite the bullet and pay him for a 2-3 year deal? Dude won the Cy Young last year, will fill some seats, and I know a lot of Mets fans, and they all like him. They are just going to piss off their fan base by trading away their best pitcher for pennies on the dollar, and let's face it, that's all they're going to get.

 
Angel Pagan

$12M/$9M/$9M/$10M

They're paying Pagan based on what he did last year rather than what he's going to do four years for now. The best thing I can say is that salary inflation will probably make the $10M into a middle class wage by 2016. If you assume a 5% inflation rate, $10M in 2016 is equivalent of $7.7M today. 5% seems conservative to me but I couldn't find a real number to use.

If Brown develops, Pagan can slide over to a corner or 4th OF role and he'll be a slight overpay. Hopefully, Pagan can be good value for the first two years. Worst case, he's Rowand redux.

 
'Tremendous Upside said:
Pretty sure the Mets reticence to sign Dickey is due to the fact that they have no $$, especially after signing Wright
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They really need to deal him. He was awesome last year but he is 38. If they can get a couple of major league ready prospects for him, they should jump at the deal. He is 38. His value won't be higher.
 
'Balco said:
'Tremendous Upside said:
Pretty sure the Mets reticence to sign Dickey is due to the fact that they have no $$, especially after signing Wright
Click to expand...
They really need to deal him. He was awesome last year but he is 38. If they can get a couple of major league ready prospects for him, they should jump at the deal. He is 38. His value won't be higher.
Click to expand...
It would suck to lose a good pitcher and great teammate, but the Mets need outfielders. Surely there is a team out there that would trade a young OFer for a good pitcher. Then maybe the Mets could get a Dillon Gee-type prospect.
 
'guru_007 said:
Someone called Eephus annoying, seriously? My God, Eephus is about the best poster around here - never seen him been in the slightest bit annoying to anyone.And Napoli overpriced? Well, yeah, but I don't think it's as grievous a stretch as the esteemed Dr. Detroit makes it out to be. Obviously there was a pretty good market for him, and if Russell Martin can get about 8.5 million/year, 5 years removed from posting a ops+ over 100, I think Napoli getting paid 13/year where every year but one he has posted at least a 110 ops+, well that seems pretty decent to me (yeah, I'm a red sox fan). Plus, he'll be playing catcher, DH, and 1B and will fill a pretty good hole in the middle of the lineup. And the Sox have freed up quite a bit of money last year, no? And at three years, well, let's just say I like the duration a hell of a lot more than a few other contracts they recently signed at crazy money for crazy lengths. This one is not break the bank type deal for a cash strapped club. Sometimes, that's the rub of being a big market/big money team. Yeah, you may get a bargain or two on short deals with players looking to win, but you have to overpay a bit here and there to fill out your team - and let's face it, the 2013 Red Sox will be lucky to win 85 games.And I am not so sure I love the Soria deal as much as others either. He's coming of TJ surgery, and will miss at least the beginning of next year - and even before he got hurt, his 2012 numbers were less than satisfactory. To me, there are red flags all over. And for my money, relievers are very replaceable. Rangers had some money and Soria may be okay, but that bullpen has a number of guys coming off major surgeries. Cross your fingers. They can always throw Feliz back there too I suppose, so it's a decent risk.....and they got lucky with Nathan last year - hopefully they get lucky again.And whats up with the Mets "shopping" Dickey?? I mean what the #### are they expecting in return for a 38 year old pitcher with 61 lifetime wins (1/3 of those last year??????) Yeah, they may be stuck in a bit of a spot, Dickey wants to get paid, and Mets don't want to let him go for nothing, so I understand, but why not just bite the bullet and pay him for a 2-3 year deal? Dude won the Cy Young last year, will fill some seats, and I know a lot of Mets fans, and they all like him. They are just going to piss off their fan base by trading away their best pitcher for pennies on the dollar, and let's face it, that's all they're going to get.
Click to expand...
The Mets are doing what every fantasy GM ever tries to do... sell high. There was rumors of the Royals offering Wil Myers for him :unsure:
 
'Mentos said:
'Balco said:
'Tremendous Upside said:
Pretty sure the Mets reticence to sign Dickey is due to the fact that they have no $$, especially after signing Wright
Click to expand...
They really need to deal him. He was awesome last year but he is 38. If they can get a couple of major league ready prospects for him, they should jump at the deal. He is 38. His value won't be higher.
Click to expand...
It would suck to lose a good pitcher and great teammate, but the Mets need outfielders. Surely there is a team out there that would trade a young OFer for a good pitcher. Then maybe the Mets could get a Dillon Gee-type prospect.
Click to expand...
You want Soriano? :lmao:
 
'Annyong said:
'Mentos said:
'Balco said:
'Tremendous Upside said:
Pretty sure the Mets reticence to sign Dickey is due to the fact that they have no $$, especially after signing Wright
Click to expand...
They really need to deal him. He was awesome last year but he is 38. If they can get a couple of major league ready prospects for him, they should jump at the deal. He is 38. His value won't be higher.
Click to expand...
It would suck to lose a good pitcher and great teammate, but the Mets need outfielders. Surely there is a team out there that would trade a young OFer for a good pitcher. Then maybe the Mets could get a Dillon Gee-type prospect.
Click to expand...
You want Soriano? :lmao:
Click to expand...
The word "young" appeared just before "OFer" in my post.
 
'Eephus said:
'MAC_32 said:
'the moops said:
'shadyridr said:
There was rumors of the Royals offering Wil Myers for him :unsure:
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Seems as though there rumors with Myers for every good pitcher out there. Not sure why KC is so looking to trade him.
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Because they're the Royals?
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...and they really need pitching
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Nothing of substance to back this up, but I would think some of the worst moves are based solely on need. If you have a future core piece you don't move it for a bandaid. You wait it out and cash in when the time is right or re-sign him for the next 10 years. You also don't throw a bunch of money at bandaids either. And let your core pieces walk. But, this is the Royals.
 
'Balco said:
'Tremendous Upside said:
Pretty sure the Mets reticence to sign Dickey is due to the fact that they have no $$, especially after signing Wright
Click to expand...
They really need to deal him. He was awesome last year but he is 38. If they can get a couple of major league ready prospects for him, they should jump at the deal. He is 38. His value won't be higher.
Click to expand...
It's true he's 38 but those knuckleballers are a strange breed and I'm not sure the normal aging process affects them the same. I think the Mets are 'stuck' with him for better or for worse. Hell, Phil Niekro had 121 wins after turning 40. Wakefield retired at age 45? 44? If he has indeed mastered the knuckleball there's no reason to think he can't pitch another 5+ years.
 
Was reading yesterday that Dickey is a little atypical in that he throws the ball much harder than Wakefield or Niekro or other knuckleball pitchers. Not that it means he can't pitch into his 40's, but his longevity may be shortened a bit because of this. Or not, what the hell do I know :shrug:

 
Toronto picked up Eli Whiteside on waivers. Could mean they are shopping J.P. (Dickey?) and giving D'Arnaud the job in 2014.

 
'Dr. Awesome said:
'Balco said:
'Tremendous Upside said:
Pretty sure the Mets reticence to sign Dickey is due to the fact that they have no $$, especially after signing Wright
Click to expand...
They really need to deal him. He was awesome last year but he is 38. If they can get a couple of major league ready prospects for him, they should jump at the deal. He is 38. His value won't be higher.
Click to expand...
It's true he's 38 but those knuckleballers are a strange breed and I'm not sure the normal aging process affects them the same. I think the Mets are 'stuck' with him for better or for worse. Hell, Phil Niekro had 121 wins after turning 40. Wakefield retired at age 45? 44? If he has indeed mastered the knuckleball there's no reason to think he can't pitch another 5+ years.
Click to expand...
any new team has to figure out the catcher for him too, might need one on the roster that is used to catching a knuckler.
 
'Leroy Hoard said:
'Dr. Awesome said:
'Balco said:
'Tremendous Upside said:
Pretty sure the Mets reticence to sign Dickey is due to the fact that they have no $$, especially after signing Wright
Click to expand...
They really need to deal him. He was awesome last year but he is 38. If they can get a couple of major league ready prospects for him, they should jump at the deal. He is 38. His value won't be higher.
Click to expand...
It's true he's 38 but those knuckleballers are a strange breed and I'm not sure the normal aging process affects them the same. I think the Mets are 'stuck' with him for better or for worse. Hell, Phil Niekro had 121 wins after turning 40. Wakefield retired at age 45? 44? If he has indeed mastered the knuckleball there's no reason to think he can't pitch another 5+ years.
Click to expand...
any new team has to figure out the catcher for him too, might need one on the roster that is used to catching a knuckler.
Click to expand...
From Jamey Newberg this morning, granted it's from a Texas homer stance, but could be applied to any team going after Dickey:
Let’s say Texas acquires Dickey and that Mets catcher Josh Thole isn’t in the deal. Guess which two active catchers have caught the most Dickey or Tim Wakefield games next to Thole (and Victor Martinez, who no longer catches)? Former Rangers Jarrod Saltalamacchia (Boston) and Rod Barajas (free agent), both of whom are available (even though Rosenthal hears that the Red Sox “are not inclined to move a catcher”).
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Red Sox gotta move a catcher. No way they srart the season with Salty, Lavarnway, Ross, and Napoli on the roster.

 
'shadyridr said:
'guru_007 said:
Someone called Eephus annoying, seriously? My God, Eephus is about the best poster around here - never seen him been in the slightest bit annoying to anyone.And Napoli overpriced? Well, yeah, but I don't think it's as grievous a stretch as the esteemed Dr. Detroit makes it out to be. Obviously there was a pretty good market for him, and if Russell Martin can get about 8.5 million/year, 5 years removed from posting a ops+ over 100, I think Napoli getting paid 13/year where every year but one he has posted at least a 110 ops+, well that seems pretty decent to me (yeah, I'm a red sox fan). Plus, he'll be playing catcher, DH, and 1B and will fill a pretty good hole in the middle of the lineup. And the Sox have freed up quite a bit of money last year, no? And at three years, well, let's just say I like the duration a hell of a lot more than a few other contracts they recently signed at crazy money for crazy lengths. This one is not break the bank type deal for a cash strapped club. Sometimes, that's the rub of being a big market/big money team. Yeah, you may get a bargain or two on short deals with players looking to win, but you have to overpay a bit here and there to fill out your team - and let's face it, the 2013 Red Sox will be lucky to win 85 games.And I am not so sure I love the Soria deal as much as others either. He's coming of TJ surgery, and will miss at least the beginning of next year - and even before he got hurt, his 2012 numbers were less than satisfactory. To me, there are red flags all over. And for my money, relievers are very replaceable. Rangers had some money and Soria may be okay, but that bullpen has a number of guys coming off major surgeries. Cross your fingers. They can always throw Feliz back there too I suppose, so it's a decent risk.....and they got lucky with Nathan last year - hopefully they get lucky again.And whats up with the Mets "shopping" Dickey?? I mean what the #### are they expecting in return for a 38 year old pitcher with 61 lifetime wins (1/3 of those last year??????) Yeah, they may be stuck in a bit of a spot, Dickey wants to get paid, and Mets don't want to let him go for nothing, so I understand, but why not just bite the bullet and pay him for a 2-3 year deal? Dude won the Cy Young last year, will fill some seats, and I know a lot of Mets fans, and they all like him. They are just going to piss off their fan base by trading away their best pitcher for pennies on the dollar, and let's face it, that's all they're going to get.
Click to expand...
The Mets are doing what every fantasy GM ever tries to do... sell high. There was rumors of the Royals offering Wil Myers for him :unsure:
Click to expand...
I've gotta believe that if that was legit (and no other pieces were involved), Dickey would be a Met right now.
 
Rumors of Justin Upton to the Phillies for Cliff Lee and presumably a huge pile of cash. Lee has a no-trade clause with exceptions I believe, so presumably either Arizona is one of the exceptions or he's said he's OK with it.

 
I was poking around on Scutaro, and if he gets 3 years, 24 million, good for him. He's honestly been putting up some respectable offensive numbers, and if you look at his WAR, he is probably worth a good 6-7 mil per year.....but, I did not realize he is older than Julio Lugo and Edgar Renteria (I was just trying to find guys to compare him to).

yeesh.

 
'TobiasFunke said:
Rumors of Justin Upton to the Phillies for Cliff Lee and presumably a huge pile of cash. Lee has a no-trade clause with exceptions I believe, so presumably either Arizona is one of the exceptions or he's said he's OK with it.
Click to expand...
Now DBack sources say this is "off base." Who knows.
 
'guru_007 said:
I was poking around on Scutaro, and if he gets 3 years, 24 million, good for him. He's honestly been putting up some respectable offensive numbers, and if you look at his WAR, he is probably worth a good 6-7 mil per year.....but, I did not realize he is older than Julio Lugo and Edgar Renteria (I was just trying to find guys to compare him to).yeesh.
Click to expand...
He's older than Aubrey Huff, Freddy Sanchez and Aaron Rowand too :bag:
 
Victorino to the Red Sox 3-yr, $37.5M.

The homer in me would rather have Pagan but it's pretty close.

 
Cant wait until moops comes in to tell us he'd rather have victorino than kemp.

 
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