*** Official 2012 Boston Red Sox Thread *** (1 Viewer)

[Doctor Detroit]

Why is everyone so certain that Boston's front office sees this as a rebuilding phase? They still have deep pockets and you gotta figure they will dive head-first into the free agent class.http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/04/2013-mlb-free-agents.html

What player on that list is better than Gonzo?

Not really a fair question. Would the Dodgers have taken that other SLOP if Gonzalez wasn't included?

Well of course not. Beckett and Crawford are a mess. My only point is, I doubt the Sox are able to gain more from FA than they will lose from Gonzo.

Beckett will likely be fine pitching in LA, I think the Dodgers got the #2 starter they really needed and one of the best hitters in baseball while giving up very little in the way of prospects. The Dodgers can generate a cash stream like no one else but the Yankeees, why would they really be concerned with the $$$? You get a long-term middle of the order guy, a #2 pitcher for this year and next, Nick ####### Punto and take on the bad Crawford deal. Maybe the Dodgers allowed the Red Sox to hit the "reset button," but that game is going to need a lot of quarters in the coming years.

 

[Balco]

Why is everyone so certain that Boston's front office sees this as a rebuilding phase? They still have deep pockets and you gotta figure they will dive head-first into the free agent class.http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/04/2013-mlb-free-agents.html

What player on that list is better than Gonzo?

Not really a fair question. Would the Dodgers have taken that other SLOP if Gonzalez wasn't included?

Well of course not. Beckett and Crawford are a mess. My only point is, I doubt the Sox are able to gain more from FA than they will lose from Gonzo.

Beckett will likely be fine pitching in LA, I think the Dodgers got the #2 starter they really needed and one of the best hitters in baseball while giving up very little in the way of prospects. The Dodgers can generate a cash stream like no one else but the Yankeees, why would they really be concerned with the $$$? You get a long-term middle of the order guy, a #2 pitcher for this year and next, Nick ####### Punto and take on the bad Crawford deal. Maybe the Dodgers allowed the Red Sox to hit the "reset button," but that game is going to need a lot of quarters in the coming years.

I don't think anyone is disputing that. Red Sox lost a lot of talent. They also got rid of a clubhouse loser in Beckett, and a horrible, atrocious contract in Crawford. Although Gonzalez proved he is not a leader, he is one of the best hitters in baseball. I am shocked the Dodgers gave up any prospects in this deal. It's not like they are getting affordable contracts. I think it's telling that the Sox got markedly worse talent wise, yet Sox fans are happy with the deal. They get a clean slate, in a big market, while getting rid of clubhouse malcontents. Lester needs to go next.It's going to be a rough couple of years, but the hope is that the roster will play hard, unlike this year. The most unlikeable Red Sox roster that I can remember in my 30 years of being a fan.

 

[Eephus]

CTRL-ALT-DELETE

 

[Borat]

Gonzalez was a loser. He might be a great hitter, but the guy is a total, complete loser. I wish him nothing but the worst.

I only wish they could've dumped Pedroia, too.

 

[Premier]

Gonzalez was a loser. He might be a great hitter, but the guy is a total, complete loser. I wish him nothing but the worst.

you Sox fans are amazing. It'll be 5 years before you get another hitter as good as him.

 

[Eephus]

I'm curious to see how long the Nation will put up with the rebuilding process. There's a half generation of fans and more than a few bandwagon jumpers who have never had to deal with a few consecutive years of non-contending.

The talent is thin at the Major League level and their top prospects are a couple of years away. This wasn't the optimal time to blow things up. The 2013 free agent class isn't as strong as last year's. Overpaying for non-elite players helped to get them to their current state. The trade was probably the right thing to do but it opens up an entirely new can of worms for Red Sox management.

 

[Borat]

Gonzalez was a loser. He might be a great hitter, but the guy is a total, complete loser. I wish him nothing but the worst.

you Sox fans are amazing. It'll be 5 years before you get another hitter as good as him.

I really don't consider myself a Red Sox fan anymore. I haven't since they won in '04. As far as not getting another hitter as good as him, how do you know? These players all just go where the money is. It seems to me that the Red Sox now will have plenty of money to throw around. No?

 

[Raider Nation]

I'm curious to see how long the Nation will put up with the rebuilding process. There's a half generation of fans and more than a few bandwagon jumpers who have never had to deal with a few consecutive years of non-contending.

Before the 2010 season, John Henry mentioned the possibility it would be a bridge year.WEEI blew up for about three months.

So these latest moves should go over very well. And there is only one NATION, good sir.

 

[Eephus]

I'm curious to see how long the Nation will put up with the rebuilding process. There's a half generation of fans and more than a few bandwagon jumpers who have never had to deal with a few consecutive years of non-contending.

Before the 2010 season, John Henry mentioned the possibility it would be a bridge year.WEEI blew up for about three months.

So these latest moves should go over very well. And there is only one NATION, good sir.

Sorry, forgot the air quotes

 

[shadyridr]

Gonzalez was a loser. He might be a great hitter, but the guy is a total, complete loser. I wish him nothing but the worst.

you Sox fans are amazing. It'll be 5 years before you get another hitter as good as him.

itll be 5 years before we hear from sox fans again

 

[Balco]

Gonzalez was a loser. He might be a great hitter, but the guy is a total, complete loser. I wish him nothing but the worst.

you Sox fans are amazing. It'll be 5 years before you get another hitter as good as him.

How do you know that? Sox will have a ton of $$$$, I am sure plenty of great hitters will be made available, as they are every year.With that said, Gonzalez is obviously a huge loss, great hitter and fielder at 1B.

 

[Balco]

I'm curious to see how long the Nation will put up with the rebuilding process. There's a half generation of fans and more than a few bandwagon jumpers who have never had to deal with a few consecutive years of non-contending.The talent is thin at the Major League level and their top prospects are a couple of years away. This wasn't the optimal time to blow things up. The 2013 free agent class isn't as strong as last year's. Overpaying for non-elite players helped to get them to their current state. The trade was probably the right thing to do but it opens up an entirely new can of worms for Red Sox management.

I think fans understand that this team had to be blown up. And as I said earlier, I think Sox fans are ecstatic with that deal. I have no problem with 2 years of rebuilding. I would be far more upset if they throw long term big money deals to mediocre players. What I think the Sox should do in the offseason:1. Contact Boras, see what Ellsbury is looking for. If it is astronomically out of their price range, trade him.2. See what teams would give up for Lester. From what I understand, Becket and Lester were huge problems in the clubhouse. If they can get a solid prospect, trade him.3. Spend as much money as they can on international free agents and the draft.

 

[Eephus]

I'm curious to see how long the Nation will put up with the rebuilding process. There's a half generation of fans and more than a few bandwagon jumpers who have never had to deal with a few consecutive years of non-contending.The talent is thin at the Major League level and their top prospects are a couple of years away. This wasn't the optimal time to blow things up. The 2013 free agent class isn't as strong as last year's. Overpaying for non-elite players helped to get them to their current state. The trade was probably the right thing to do but it opens up an entirely new can of worms for Red Sox management.

I think fans understand that this team had to be blown up. And as I said earlier, I think Sox fans are ecstatic with that deal. I have no problem with 2 years of rebuilding. I would be far more upset if they throw long term big money deals to mediocre players. What I think the Sox should do in the offseason:1. Contact Boras, see what Ellsbury is looking for. If it is astronomically out of their price range, trade him.2. See what teams would give up for Lester. From what I understand, Becket and Lester were huge problems in the clubhouse. If they can get a solid prospect, trade him.3. Spend as much money as they can on international free agents and the draft.

The new CBA makes #3 much harder than it used to be.Ellsbury will be 29 next month and has had only one good season. He's a big risk whether they keep him or let him walk.

 

[shadyridr]

pretty sure ellsbury wants no part of staying boston. at least that was the impression i got

 

[Borat]

pretty sure ellsbury wants no part of staying boston. at least that was the impression i got

Can't really blame him. The ballpark is a dump, the clubhouse is the size of a shoe box, the media looks for reasons to tear the players apart, the fans are jerks ( ), and the organization is a complete mess right now, top to bottom.All in all, Boston might be the most difficult place to play baseball right now.

 

[Eephus]

pretty sure ellsbury wants no part of staying boston. at least that was the impression i got

Can't really blame him. The ballpark is a dump, the clubhouse is the size of a shoe box, the media looks for reasons to tear the players apart, the fans are jerks ( ), and the organization is a complete mess right now, top to bottom.All in all, Boston might be the most difficult place to play baseball right now.

Yeah, it's amazing they've somehow managed to win 60 games so far

 

[Borat]

pretty sure ellsbury wants no part of staying boston. at least that was the impression i got

Can't really blame him. The ballpark is a dump, the clubhouse is the size of a shoe box, the media looks for reasons to tear the players apart, the fans are jerks ( ), and the organization is a complete mess right now, top to bottom.All in all, Boston might be the most difficult place to play baseball right now.

Yeah, it's amazing they've somehow managed to win 60 games so far

I'm not really sure what you're getting at here...? I'm not making excuses for the team. They're a bunch of spoiled, whiny babies. The fans right now are getting what they deserve.

 

[Premier]

"Pitcher John Lackey already had claimed Beckett's locker"

 

[Borat]

"Pitcher John Lackey already had claimed Beckett's locker"

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think Sox fans are ecstatic with that deal.

I'm surprised that the Dodgers gave up any prospects at all in this deal, I would've been okay just unloading what the Sox unloaded.Losing Gonzalez hurts, but I still like it. The Dodgers might end up doing very well because Beckett/Crawford may very well benefit from the "change of scenery" - that's fine with me if that happens, it was not going to happen in Boston. I wish all 3 guys well.

 

[shadyridr]

Help me understand post-trading deadline trades.Gonzo and Beckett were put on waivers. The Dodgers claimed them.So now why do the Dodgers need to TRADE for them?

Boston has the option to withdraw waivers and negotiate a deal with the claiming team. The claim just establishes exclusive trading rights.

ok but what about all th rookies going to the sox? they dont have to clear waivers?

All my years following baseball I never understood this and still nobody has answered my question

 

[the moops]

Help me understand post-trading deadline trades.Gonzo and Beckett were put on waivers. The Dodgers claimed them.So now why do the Dodgers need to TRADE for them?

Boston has the option to withdraw waivers and negotiate a deal with the claiming team. The claim just establishes exclusive trading rights.

ok but what about all th rookies going to the sox? they dont have to clear waivers?

All my years following baseball I never understood this and still nobody has answered my question

I think it is major league waivers and only for players who are on the 40 man roster (just a guess though).

 

[Raider Nation]

"Wouldn't the Dodgers have given us Kemp for Lackey?"

/moops

 

[the moops]

"Wouldn't the Dodgers have given us Kemp for Lackey?"

/moops

 

[Raider Nation]

"Wouldn't the Dodgers have given us Kemp for Lackey?"

/moops

 

[the moops]

"Wouldn't the Dodgers have given us Kemp for Lackey?"

/moops

I have no idea where you are going with this. I havent proposed any insane trades. Just asked why they wouldnt pull Gonzalez back.

 

[Eephus]

Help me understand post-trading deadline trades.Gonzo and Beckett were put on waivers. The Dodgers claimed them.So now why do the Dodgers need to TRADE for them?

Boston has the option to withdraw waivers and negotiate a deal with the claiming team. The claim just establishes exclusive trading rights.

ok but what about all th rookies going to the sox? they dont have to clear waivers?

All my years following baseball I never understood this and still nobody has answered my question

I think it is major league waivers and only for players who are on the 40 man roster (just a guess though).

25 man roster. De la Rosa had minor league options available

 

[DA RAIDERS]

odd times for recent, see bandwagon, sox fans. it'll be interesting to see the front office go about rebuilding this team. will it be moneyball style or the steinbrenner way?

i hate to see gonzalez go, but i'm more interested in the team now than i was yesterday.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I don't think we're going to see the FO suddenly become moneyballish. They're too image conscious. They will spend, they'll just try to spend more wisely.

 

[Balco]

Reading up om Ruby De La Rosa, I wonder if he eventually is going to be a closer. That is how he started his career until Dodgers stretched him out ( and he subsequently needed Tommy John). With the state of the bullpen going forward, it might not be a bad idea.

Hope the Sox let Sands play a lot the remainder of the year. Tearing it up in AAA again. Has power.

 

[Balco]

I don't think we're going to see the FO suddenly become moneyballish. They're too image conscious. They will spend, they'll just try to spend more wisely.

I think the trade route is the way to go as well. They just received some nice pieces that could help in trades. Since they are a big market club, they can look for players that are becoming too expensive for their teams.

 

[Balco]

As part of starting over, and ideally through trades, the first target in the offseason should be Billy Butler. Replacement for David Ortiz, 26 years old, making $8,000,000 per year. Rpyals have offense coming up in potential mega stud Wil Myers.

 

[Thunderlips]

Funny how Gonzo went from the greatest thing since Sam Horn to a Waiver Wire deal. Fickle fans those pink hatters.

 

[Furious Styles]

Reading up om Ruby De La Rosa, I wonder if he eventually is going to be a closer. That is how he started his career until Dodgers stretched him out ( and he subsequently needed Tommy John). With the state of the bullpen going forward, it might not be a bad idea. Hope the Sox let Sands play a lot the remainder of the year. Tearing it up in AAA again. Has power.

The Sox are looking at De la Rosa to be a top of the rotation starter, putting him in the bullpen would mean their evaluation was way off.

 

[shadyridr]

As part of starting over, and ideally through trades, the first target in the offseason should be Billy Butler. Replacement for David Ortiz, 26 years old, making $8,000,000 per year. Rpyals have offense coming up in potential mega stud Wil Myers.

spending money on a dh is stupid

 

[Balco]

As part of starting over, and ideally through trades, the first target in the offseason should be Billy Butler. Replacement for David Ortiz, 26 years old, making $8,000,000 per year. Rpyals have offense coming up in potential mega stud Wil Myers.

spending money on a dh is stupid

Not sure if you are being serious or not.

 

[Balco]

Reading up om Ruby De La Rosa, I wonder if he eventually is going to be a closer. That is how he started his career until Dodgers stretched him out ( and he subsequently needed Tommy John). With the state of the bullpen going forward, it might not be a bad idea. Hope the Sox let Sands play a lot the remainder of the year. Tearing it up in AAA again. Has power.

The Sox are looking at De la Rosa to be a top of the rotation starter, putting him in the bullpen would mean their evaluation was way off.

The Reds were way off on their Aroldis Chapman evaluation. Don't think they mind.

 

[Balco]

Funny how Gonzo went from the greatest thing since Sam Horn to a Waiver Wire deal. Fickle fans those pink hatters.

Where has anyone said Gonzalez was a bad player?

 

[Balco]

The trade feels haphazard/reactionary/ill-considered. Whether or not it proves to be the right move for these players, I don't think it augers well for future moves from this Red Sox FO.

I think the Red Sox front office should get kudos for clearing a quarrter of a billion dollars off their payroll while still getting some good prospects in return. A change to the NL should benefit Becket, but in addition to being a clubhouse killer, he was not performing on the field. Carl Crawford just has TJ surgery, looked horrible before he was hurt last year, and is owed a ton of money. Gonzalez hurt, no question, but if he was the price the Sox had to pay, I am okay with it.

 

[Raider Nation]

Blown save tonight in Anaheim. Had a chance to get within four games of .500

 

[Raider Nation]

8/31 update - Team not even pretending to give an effort anymore.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

8/31 update - Team not even pretending to give an effort anymore.

You're slipping.Todd Marinovich to Mervyn Fernandez/ Bill Pickel fumble recovery in the endzone/Jeff Jaeger with two FG's

 

[Raider Nation]

8/31 update - Team not even pretending to give an effort anymore.

You're slipping.Todd Marinovich to Mervyn Fernandez/ Bill Pickel fumble recovery in the endzone/Jeff Jaeger with two FG's

At the time I posted, it was something like 13-2. The A's have since added ANOTHER touchdown.

Such an embarrassment. Never mind firing Bobby V. at the end of the season. He should not be on the plane home.

 

[Raider Nation]

On the bright side, they held George Kottaras to 2 HRs and 5 RBI.

 

[Borat]

Hey... can we all agree at this point that Theo Epstein was/is wildly overrated, and that Dan Duquette got an incredibly raw deal with how he's been regarded by Red Sox fans?

Been making this argument since 2004. People around me have only started to come around within the past couple of months.

Thoughts?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Let me say first off I'm happy Griffin won't be out there throwing a lot of pitches in his first game back from injury.

That said, what a doosh move. Your team is down by 5 runs and after 4 2/3 of perfection Salty bunts to break it up?

Screw your team. And at Aceves imploding, yelling at Pedroia and Bobby V. Here's hoping Oakland holds onto this game and sweeps your classless ###.

 

[Raider Nation]

Bobby V. is on suicide watch. It looks like he's aged 8 years the past three months.

Tonight, Aceves and gritty, gutty little Pedroia were seen shouting at each other in the dugout. After the game in the locker room, one of the female Boston reporters asked him about the "animated" discussion between the two. "I don't think it was animated -- it was just baseball. They were discussing positioning."



"But the cameras showed you and the other coaches getting between the two of them."

[Arrogant/annoyed-beyond-belief smile] ... "Wow, that must have made for great TV."

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Bobby V. is on suicide watch. It looks like he's aged 8 years the past three months.

Tonight, Aceves and gritty, gutty little Pedroia were seen shouting at each other in the dugout. After the game in the locker room, one of the female Boston reporters asked him about the "animated" discussion between the two. "I don't think it was animated -- it was just baseball. They were discussing positioning."



"But the cameras showed you and the other coaches getting between the two of them."

[Arrogant/annoyed-beyond-belief smile] ... "Wow, that must have made for great TV."

Not sure if you watched the game but Aceves was also yelling at the umpire. He dropped a foul ball after inexplicably calling off Salty and Loney. And when he and Pedroia were yelling in the dugout, Bobby V. put his hand on Alfredo's shoulder and Aceves turned around and started yelling at the manager.

 

[Raider Nation]

Yep, Dr. A. Every day, I'm like a kid on Christmas morning. This is unbelievably great!

• Werner wouldn't comment on whether Bobby Valentine would return for 2013.

"I don't really want to get into that today," Werner said. "I don't want to talk too much about him. But he's had a challenging year. I think, as we've said before, he's doing a good job."

Oh, yeah... he's doing a FANTASTIC job!

 

[Raider Nation]

Red Sox manager Bobby Valentine offered reporters in Oakland a puzzling explanation of a lineup on Saturday night in Oakland that featured outfielder Scott Podsednik in the third slot of the batting order for the first time in his career.

"Just a mistake," Valentine said in response to his deployment of Podsednik. "Is that what it says on the lineup? What the (expletive)? Switch it up. Who knows. Maybe it will look good. I haven’t seen it."

He's done everything except wear a sandwich board with "PLEASE FIRE ME" written on it.