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** Official 2014 Philadelphia Eagles Thread ** (2 Viewers)

fred_1_15301 said:
ShaHBucks said:
Eagles have the #1 or #2 best defense in the league. They held Romo under 200 yards with no TD and 2 INTs. Murray was under 100 yards rushings and Dez was in a blanket. All week you heard about Dallas and their O-Line. What did our defense do? Held Dallas to 10 points, 3.7 ypc and got 4 sacks with 3 turnovers. Credit is due.
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No they're not and there is really no metric that would come even remotely close to supporting your stance. Using one game against Dallas does not negate stats from the rest of the season. Are they top 10? Perhaps. Let's be realistic here.
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I think by now you guys know I'm not saying #### just to say it. I think they have the best defense in the league. I've been watching them toy with opposing offense all year (including A. Davis and Cousins). They dictate games and create havoc. They don't play like any great defense that you're accustomed to, so they get discredited. If you studied the defensive schemes and philosophies, like I have, then you would understand how brilliant they've been all season. They are the reason we top the division. They're top-10 unit in any advanced metric worth it's salt, to say the least http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdefThe other reason this team is awesome http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst

Keep getting spoon fed info from NFLN and ESPN and you'll keep thinking its "Chip Kelly's system" http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff

 
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ShaHBucks said:
fred_1_15301 said:
ShaHBucks said:
Eagles have the #1 or #2 best defense in the league. They held Romo under 200 yards with no TD and 2 INTs. Murray was under 100 yards rushings and Dez was in a blanket. All week you heard about Dallas and their O-Line. What did our defense do? Held Dallas to 10 points, 3.7 ypc and got 4 sacks with 3 turnovers. Credit is due.
Click to expand...
No they're not and there is really no metric that would come even remotely close to supporting your stance. Using one game against Dallas does not negate stats from the rest of the season. Are they top 10? Perhaps. Let's be realistic here.
Click to expand...
I think by now you guys know I'm not saying #### just to say it. I think they have the best defense in the league. I've been watching them toy with opposing offense all year (including A. Davis and Cousins). They dictate games and create havoc. They don't play like any great defense that you're accustomed to, so they get discredited. If you studied the defensive schemes and philosophies, like I have, then you would understand how brilliant they've been all season. They are the reason we top the division. They're top-10 unit in any advanced metric worth it's salt, to say the least http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdefThe other reason this team is awesome http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst

Keep getting spoon fed info from NFLN and ESPN and you'll keep thinking its "Chip Kelly's system" http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff
Click to expand...
I honestly don't know what you're talking about but you didn't really show any evidence that would suggest that they are a top 2 defense in the league. I already agreed that they're perhaps a top 10 defense but that's about it. Not trying to be an ### here but I'm curious what statistics you can cite that would suggest they're top defense in all of football. I can point to many that would suggest that they're not but I'm sure you already know this. I don't need "innovative" statistics to point this out. By the way, I respect your knowledge when it comes to the Eagles. I think you always make great posts but I just think you're overrating the defense a bit.

ETA -- I'm talking defense and not including special teams. I would agree that special teams tips things in the Eagles favor quite a bit.

 
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I honestly could be sold that the Eagles are a top 2-3 overall team in the NFL. I just don't see top 2 defense from this team and the statistics back me up.

 
fred_1_15301 said:
I honestly could be sold that the Eagles are a top 2-3 overall team in the NFL. I just don't see top 2 defense from this team and the statistics back me up.
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On a neutral field, right now I'd take(in no particular order) DEN, GB, NE and SEA over the Eagles, and put them in the same tier as IND and AZ. I'd take the Eagles over everyone else on a neutral field. So somewhere between 5 and 7 overall.

The defense? Underrated for sure but I can't go top 2, not sure I could even go top 5 with that secondary. I'd buy top 10.

 
ShaHBucks said:
fred_1_15301 said:
ShaHBucks said:
Eagles have the #1 or #2 best defense in the league. They held Romo under 200 yards with no TD and 2 INTs. Murray was under 100 yards rushings and Dez was in a blanket. All week you heard about Dallas and their O-Line. What did our defense do? Held Dallas to 10 points, 3.7 ypc and got 4 sacks with 3 turnovers. Credit is due.
Click to expand...
No they're not and there is really no metric that would come even remotely close to supporting your stance. Using one game against Dallas does not negate stats from the rest of the season. Are they top 10? Perhaps. Let's be realistic here.
Click to expand...
I think by now you guys know I'm not saying #### just to say it. I think they have the best defense in the league. I've been watching them toy with opposing offense all year (including A. Davis and Cousins). They dictate games and create havoc. They don't play like any great defense that you're accustomed to, so they get discredited. If you studied the defensive schemes and philosophies, like I have, then you would understand how brilliant they've been all season. They are the reason we top the division. They're top-10 unit in any advanced metric worth it's salt, to say the least http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdefThe other reason this team is awesome http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst

Keep getting spoon fed info from NFLN and ESPN and you'll keep thinking its "Chip Kelly's system" http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff
Click to expand...
Relating to the second link, IMO the metrics are correct. Eagles special teams have been superior this season.

Sproles huge upgrade on the returns, Huff ST'er of the Week last week (atoning for some recent WR miscues).

What a far cry from the Reid years on ST!!

 
fred_1_15301 said:
ShaHBucks said:
Eagles have the #1 or #2 best defense in the league. They held Romo under 200 yards with no TD and 2 INTs. Murray was under 100 yards rushings and Dez was in a blanket. All week you heard about Dallas and their O-Line. What did our defense do? Held Dallas to 10 points, 3.7 ypc and got 4 sacks with 3 turnovers. Credit is due.
Click to expand...
No they're not and there is really no metric that would come even remotely close to supporting your stance. Using one game against Dallas does not negate stats from the rest of the season. Are they top 10? Perhaps. Let's be realistic here.
Click to expand...
Top 10 is even a stretch, but they are better then their raw rankings numbers suggest. The secondary is still very vulnerable when the pass rush fails. It's an average defense that looks worse statistically because of the way the offense operates.

 
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fred_1_15301 said:
ShaHBucks said:
fred_1_15301 said:
ShaHBucks said:
Eagles have the #1 or #2 best defense in the league. They held Romo under 200 yards with no TD and 2 INTs. Murray was under 100 yards rushings and Dez was in a blanket. All week you heard about Dallas and their O-Line. What did our defense do? Held Dallas to 10 points, 3.7 ypc and got 4 sacks with 3 turnovers. Credit is due.
Click to expand...
No they're not and there is really no metric that would come even remotely close to supporting your stance. Using one game against Dallas does not negate stats from the rest of the season. Are they top 10? Perhaps. Let's be realistic here.
Click to expand...
I think by now you guys know I'm not saying #### just to say it. I think they have the best defense in the league. I've been watching them toy with opposing offense all year (including A. Davis and Cousins). They dictate games and create havoc. They don't play like any great defense that you're accustomed to, so they get discredited. If you studied the defensive schemes and philosophies, like I have, then you would understand how brilliant they've been all season. They are the reason we top the division. They're top-10 unit in any advanced metric worth it's salt, to say the least http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdefThe other reason this team is awesome http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst

Keep getting spoon fed info from NFLN and ESPN and you'll keep thinking its "Chip Kelly's system" http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff
Click to expand...
I honestly don't know what you're talking about but you didn't really show any evidence that would suggest that they are a top 2 defense in the league. I already agreed that they're perhaps a top 10 defense but that's about it. Not trying to be an ### here but I'm curious what statistics you can cite that would suggest they're top defense in all of football. I can point to many that would suggest that they're not but I'm sure you already know this. I don't need "innovative" statistics to point this out. By the way, I respect your knowledge when it comes to the Eagles. I think you always make great posts but I just think you're overrating the defense a bit.

ETA -- I'm talking defense and not including special teams. I would agree that special teams tips things in the Eagles favor quite a bit.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I was going to say... I'd expect this type of exaggeration from some people, but not you as most of your posts are great. its disappointing.

Even with your innovative stats it doesn't have us at 1 or 2 overall. Our ST have been fantastic, but put us against a qb that makes few mistakes (aaron rodgers, etc) and look what happened. I love our D, its so underrated by people who say we are bottom 10 in the league... but anything above about 8th best in the league is a stretch... 1st or 2nd is just nuts. So if our D is the best, are you saying GB would have scored 54+ on every single team in the league? If GB puts up over 54 tomorrow I'll admit that MAYBE it's closer to 5th best D for us.

 
Let's call it like it is, it's been the same for years. An above average QB beats this defense. A great QB dominates it.

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
So I guess I'm on an island too if I said we have one of, if not the best, front 7 in the league?
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Not IMO. The way they attack the QB with pressure and make big plays, this front 7 has been a great surprise. With the loss of 'Meco especially, as I feel we would be even more solid with him in the defensive huddle.

Barwin, Cox, Bernie Logan especially have been excellent.

Top 5 front 7, IMO.

 
Mighty Mice said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
So I guess I'm on an island too if I said we have one of, if not the best, front 7 in the league?
Click to expand...
Not IMO. The way they attack the QB with pressure and make big plays, this front 7 has been a great surprise. With the loss of 'Meco especially, as I feel we would be even more solid with him in the defensive huddle.

Barwin, Cox, Bernie Logan especially have been excellent.

Top 5 front 7, IMO.
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Bills hands down #1.

 
Yea. But unfortunately barring a major let down in Buffalo, they'll finish 13-3. I think we can too but it means we have to go back there in January.

 
Insein said:
Yea. But unfortunately barring a major let down in Buffalo, they'll finish 13-3. I think we can too but it means we have to go back there in January.
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Ya but I think Arizona is the team we can catch now. We still would have to go there in the NFC championship, but we gotta be happy with making the NFC championship game. Chip will have them more prepared this time.

 
You get 3 points for being the home team. The line means that the oddsmakers think Seattle would win by 2 on a neutral field; ie that Seattle is the better team.

 
Pip said:
You get 3 points for being the home team. The line means that the oddsmakers think Seattle would win by 2 on a neutral field; ie that Seattle is the better team.
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Exactly. I guess Vegas' thinking is that most people would lay money on the Seahawks right now since they're the world champs and on a defensive roll. So Vegas will set a line to bring some money in on both sides.

 
I'm not sure about Seattle. Even if one presumes they are the best defensive team in some time there is still the chance, the likelihood even, that a team can get a special teams score or a score on a turnover. There are some scores a defense just can't prevent, those which happen when they are not on the field. The Eagles have seemed fairly opportunistic in this regard this year. One can not predict these things or count on them but the Eagles have been making it happen and December football seems t have more nonconventional scores than other months.Additionally, as good as they are defensively they have not been shutting down good or great teams, slowing them down certainly, but not stoning them. The Eagles will get between 13 and 28 points on the board. There was a time when the Seattle offense seemed capable of scoring in that range or better, but their offensive game seems to have taken a step back. Lynch is clearly hurt. Their offensive line is hurt. They have no receiving threats with which to expose the Eagles defensive weakness, their secondary . I just don't see the Seahawks matching up well with the Eagles. Absent a defensive or special teams score by Seattle and a favorable disparity in turnovers I see the Eagles winning.

 
It'll be a close game. The key will come down to whether Sanchez plays a clean game and if Shady and the run game can do some damage. The Eagles D should be able to hold Seattle to under 21 points and the Eagles have been averaging 27 points on offense at home but this will be the toughest D they've faced.

 
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Ditkaless Wonders said:
I'm not sure about Seattle. Even if one presumes they are the best defensive team in some time there is still the chance, the likelihood even, that a team can get a special teams score or a score on a turnover. There are some scores a defense just can't prevent, those which happen when they are not on the field. The Eagles have seemed fairly opportunistic in this regard this year. One can not predict these things or count on them but the Eagles have been making it happen and December football seems t have more nonconventional scores than other months.Additionally, as good as they are defensively they have not been shutting down good or great teams, slowing them down certainly, but not stoning them. The Eagles will get between 13 and 28 points on the board. There was a time when the Seattle offense seemed capable of scoring in that range or better, but their offensive game seems to have taken a step back. Lynch is clearly hurt. Their offensive line is hurt. They have no receiving threats with which to expose the Eagles defensive weakness, their secondary . I just don't see the Seahawks matching up well with the Eagles. Absent a defensive or special teams score by Seattle and a favorable disparity in turnovers I see the Eagles winning.
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:goodposting:

 
On another note, Sanchez has won more games as a starter this season than the Jets have all season. Since taking over for Foles the Eagles have scored 165 points while the Jets have only scored 195 points all season. I wouldn't buy a house any time soon if you work or play for the Jets.

 
Pip said:
You get 3 points for being the home team. The line means that the oddsmakers think Seattle would win by 2 on a neutral field; ie that Seattle is the better team.
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Typically they give points to the home team, but not all the time. I actually prefer to look at the movements of the line. The money line opened at Philly -120, Sea +100. It is currently at Philly -125, Seattle +105 so early bettors like Philly in this one.

 
Insein said:
Pip said:
You get 3 points for being the home team. The line means that the oddsmakers think Seattle would win by 2 on a neutral field; ie that Seattle is the better team.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I guess Vegas' thinking is that most people would lay money on the Seahawks right now since they're the world champs and on a defensive roll. So Vegas will set a line to bring some money in on both sides.
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Correct, Vegas odd setting isn't about who they think will win although that indirectly has an influence. It's all about levelling the amount of money wagered on both sides by setting the price (i.e. odds) to equalise demand for both products (a bet on SEA or PHI) so they have a consistent profit margin regardless of the outcome. They adjust as money comes in, but the early line is all about what Vegas thinks is the betting public's perception of the two teams.

 
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jon007 said:
On another note, Sanchez has won more games as a starter this season than the Jets have all season. Since taking over for Foles the Eagles have scored 165 points while the Jets have only scored 195 points all season. I wouldn't buy a house any time soon if you work or play for the Jets.
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It's astonishing and a little sad how closely Rex mimics the failings of his father. Brilliant defensive coach, schemes pass rush better than anyone has consistently over the years but completely inept at selecting and managing offensive coaches and players.

His record doesn't warrant another HC position after he gets fired (although Mangini's didn't either), and I think he's too big a personality for most to want him as a DC or for him to go back to that. I think he ends up in the media or as a college HC.

 
I think this is a big, big game for Sanchez in terms of changing the public and the league's perception of him as a player. Regardless of the result, if Sanchez plays an efficient, clean game I think he takes a big step forward in making himself a viable option again as a starting QB. It's probably justifiable to a degree to attribute some (a lot?) of his improvement to the system and better talent around him but if he can avoid what became an established tendency to turn the ball over in a big game with huge playoff implications, of the next 2 weeks actually, people will take notice.

 
Pip said:
The Cowboys may beat the Bears playing like this, but if this is what they bring against us next week, we will crush them.
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I couldn't be happier with this game. Watching Simms talk about how great they are, and following on the CBS feed and seeing every single Dallas twitter person talk about how they are the best team in the league again.

 
Pip said:
Their D remains soft and their O remains over reliant on Murray. Luckily for them the Bears D is atrocious.
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Ya I don't like:

a: They get 10 days of rest

b: Murray gets to run on grass (didn't know how much he loved it until this broadcast)

c: Revenge on their minds.

However, they look beatable for sure if we contain Murray. Dez is obviously the factor that could hurt our defense though. Our Run D has played well, hopefully he is contained next week! (and put up bad numbers for all those owners with byes this week)

 
Why is our game in the afternoon today anyways? Do they often have east coast games at 4pm EST? I thought a big advantage was Seattle having to play at 10am Pacific time, was surprised to see the game on later.

 
Deamon said:
Why is our game in the afternoon today anyways? Do they often have east coast games at 4pm EST? I thought a big advantage was Seattle having to play at 10am Pacific time, was surprised to see the game on later.
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Cause its the game of the week which always takes place at 4

 
Tough loss. Even though the calls didn't go our way, we didn't really help ourselves otherwise. I think we see the limitations of having Sanchez full time. He's an adequate backup but you can't expect the backup to carry you for more than 5 games. Hopefully Foles is back by the Washington game and Shady and the defense are enough to get us through Dallas next week.

 
we are just not quite there yet. maybe someone gets lucky and knocks off sea in the playoffs before we have to go there, cause it would be ugly if we have to go to sea

 
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