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***Official 2014 World Cup Thread*** (2 Viewers)

Did not see the game, but how much trouble are England in? They strike me as one of those teams that is going to wilt in Brazil. They have better younger players, but seem hell bent on going with experience over talent.

 
Norman Paperman said:
NewlyRetired said:
As Jermaine Jones biggest critic, he has been fantastic tonight. If he plays like this in the WC it could make a real difference.
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I could not agree more, and I may be one of Jones biggest fans here. But, I think his play had more to do with the setup than his specific play. Of the starters, I don't think any of them had a bad game. They all looked like they each had specific jobs to do, and they all focused on that. Everyone did their job, and nobody tried to do too much.
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That's what I was getting at with the formation seeming to "fit" everyone out there.

 
So wow- took 20 or so minutes for them to find their touch, but the tactical shape was just right today.

The first 20 minutes, too many loose/lost passes and touches which killed any fluidity of counter-attack. If the US isn't tidy with the ball in the formation, it's going to be trouble. But I LOVED how they were able to stay sooo compact defensively and then get forward- sometimes lightning fast, and sometimes with some carefully played balls through the backline and out wide.

I honestly thought Jozy was weak on the night- aside from that fantastically taken 2nd goal. Watching last week live and seeing him float around and not combine too much with anybody, I've come to think his main strength up front is making the strong diagonal run into space where he can receive the ball wide of his defender. Looked sharpest against Turkey with those kind of runs and scored his goal tonight doing the same. He needs guys to find him the too rare times he actually makes those runs. But not enough of them with Dempsey also floating a little deeper back and doing more of the combination play with the running MFs. Still too similar in terms of style of play. I really wanted to see what Bacon could do out there instead of Jozy.

Beckerman and Jones played well together. Still saw too many Ghana players turn guys a bit easily with the ball, but nice to see the 2nd defender almost always there. Again- Beck's lack of pace scares the #### out of me- but Jones seems to have just enough and more than enough desire to get there to cover.

And hells yeah- with those two central and back, it allowed Bradley the freedom to be around the ball as much as possible, combiing quickly and well with Dempsey, Bedoya and Fab or DMB making the overlap. If they can somehow keep makign those runs forward AND maintain their spacing- look out.

I still don't see what Bedoya brings outside of some pace and work-rate. Really don't like his decision making (although that was a fantastic slotted ball for Fab on JOzy's first goal) on the break and don't see what he's giving the US that Donovan couldn't.

DMB mutha####as!!

 
wdcrob said:
Norman Paperman said:
NewlyRetired said:
As Jermaine Jones biggest critic, he has been fantastic tonight. If he plays like this in the WC it could make a real difference.
Click to expand...
I could not agree more, and I may be one of Jones biggest fans here. But, I think his play had more to do with the setup than his specific play. Of the starters, I don't think any of them had a bad game. They all looked like they each had specific jobs to do, and they all focused on that. Everyone did their job, and nobody tried to do too much.
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That's what I was getting at with the formation seeming to "fit" everyone out there.
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Spot on- it did fit everyone, including Nigeria who looked frustrated once the US found their touch in the first half and pretty much gave up. Just coulnd't figure out how to break down that back... 6. But some of those pacey moves spinning the first defender has me a bit scared for all of the first round US games.

 
Norman Paperman said:
Did not see the game, but how much trouble are England in? They strike me as one of those teams that is going to wilt in Brazil. They have better younger players, but seem hell bent on going with experience over talent.
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Saw up until the delay and they didn't look good. Sturridge missed a few chances that he should put away, but Rooney is terrible and Welbeck shouldn't start. Don't forget, Sterling was banned today, so that didn't help. Wilshere needs to get better, what Scholes said a few months back is ringing true, he ahsnt' got better since he broke through at Arsenal. Glen Johnson....oooof

I think we'll see-

Johnson Cahil Jags Baines

Gerrard Henderson

Sterling Rooney Lallana

Sturridge

If Hodgson insists on starting Welbeck or Milner, they'll be a disaster

 
Floppo - I don't think there is any chance the Donovan of today could give the defensive effort that Bedoya put in, with the defensive strength and guile. Yes Donovan can be more creative up top, but that comes with a price, in giving up the effort for 70+ minutes that Bedoya put in.

For that formation, and for those tactics, I'd take Bedoya over Donovan 100 times out of 100, and I am not a Bedoya fan. Donovan could have been a decent back up to Bradley in that role, but Bradley is not coming out of a game, and if he is injured/carded, we'll have to adjust tactically.

 
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Norman Paperman said:
Floppo - I don't think there is any chance the Donovan of today could give the defensive effort that Bedoya put in, with the defensive strength and guile. Yes Donovan can be more creative up top, but that comes with a price, in giving up the effort for 70+ minutes that Bedoya put in.

For that formation, and for those tactics, I'd take Bedoya over Donovan 100 times out of 100, and I am not a Bedoya fan. Donovan could have been a decent back up to Bradley in that role, but Bradley is not coming out of a game, and if he is injured/carded, we'll have to adjust tactically.
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I agree the LD isn't going to match Bedoya's pace, and maybe not his overall endurance. Don't agree with strength and guile- the latter of whcih LD will give in spades.

I haven't seen him play for LA this season, so I don't know where his fitness is, But I honestly can't imagine that he's unable to put in a professional 90 minutes at the minimum working his ### off up and down the flank... oh right... LD banished him from there. Then when the break is on, he provides all the experience and guile that goes with being the best ever US player who has led that kind of break so many times before- including at the WC when everyhthing was on the line.

But with JK excluding him from playing wide- yeah, no way he's ahead of Bradley, Deuce, etc.

 
El Floppo said:
TLEF316 said:
I get why he's in there tactically, but Beckerman just has no talent. He can't even execute simple passes
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X

Beckerman is very tidy with the ball normally. today, not as much- but he's got a ton of talent, just lacks the first step. And second step. And his tactical sense is pretty much only matched by Bradley.

I have no worries about this talent or executing passes- it's whether he can get to it in time with WC players breathing down his neck.
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One of Beckermans trade marks is his extremely high distribution success. He was not "on" yesterday in that category but that is the one area I have no worries for him.

As for his offensive skills, so many people underestimate him. I think a lot of people either forget or don't know that he was a striker as a youth. He was so good that he made arguably the best youth roster in US history as a striker on the 1997 U17 team.

He does not get forward often in MLS but when he does, his creative skill and vision has been shown on numerous occasions.

Big fan even if I acknowledge his speed or quickness in almost any direction is severely below average at the WC level.

 
I have a question about tactics.

Please assume a rough 4-2-3-1 as we saw yesterday.

Also assume that an important part of the tactics will be Fab going forward.

Almost every time Fab went forward yesterday, the gap on his side was cavernous and every time the ball was turned over Nigeria was able to exploit that space.

Who has the responsibility to cover that space? Should Cam slide over or should Beckerman slide over?

I do not like the idea of Beckerman going out wide like that. I think I would prefer Cam to slide over and Becks to slide back. That might open up space in the middle but we have to give something up if Fab intends on getting so deep and linking with the right sided midfielder/forward.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
I have a question about tactics.

Please assume a rough 4-2-3-1 as we saw yesterday.

Also assume that an important part if the tactics will be Fab going forward.

Almost every time Fab went forward yesterday, the gap on his side was cavernous and every time the ball was turned over Nigeria was able to exploit that space.

Who has the responsibility to cover that space? Should Cam slide over or should Beckerman slide over?

I do not like the idea of Beckerman going out wide like that. I think I would prefer Cam to slide over and Becks to slide back. That might open up space in the middle but we have to give something up if Fab intends on getting so deep and linking with the right sided midfielder/forward.
Click to expand...
I noticed Cameron shifting wide several times yesterday and wondered if that was normal for a CB. Seems like it would usually be a defensive mid or the right mid covering.

Also... how did Dempsey and Bedoya/Zusi actually line up? What were their responsibilities in that formation? Was Dempsey playing as a forward? Was it really more of a 2-2 box in the midfield?

Any of the tactical folks here want to lay show the lineup yesterday and who had responsibility for what?

 
It's hard to believe that the WC is finally upon us after all the anticipation.

I just wish my work respected the schedule more. I've had to pull some real strings just to clear my schedule for the US games.

 
wdcrob said:
NewlyRetired said:
I have a question about tactics.

Please assume a rough 4-2-3-1 as we saw yesterday.

Also assume that an important part if the tactics will be Fab going forward.

Almost every time Fab went forward yesterday, the gap on his side was cavernous and every time the ball was turned over Nigeria was able to exploit that space.

Who has the responsibility to cover that space? Should Cam slide over or should Beckerman slide over?

I do not like the idea of Beckerman going out wide like that. I think I would prefer Cam to slide over and Becks to slide back. That might open up space in the middle but we have to give something up if Fab intends on getting so deep and linking with the right sided midfielder/forward.
Click to expand...
I noticed Cameron shifting wide several times yesterday and wondered if that was normal for a CB. Seems like it would usually be a defensive mid or the right mid covering.

Also... how did Dempsey and Bedoya/Zusi actually line up? What were their responsibilities in that formation? Was Dempsey playing as a forward? Was it really more of a 2-2 box in the midfield?

Any of the tactical folks here want to lay show the lineup yesterday and who had responsibility for what?
Click to expand...
I was watching closely and it was very difficult to tell.

Bedoya switched sides half way through, Dempsey appeared to roam more around. Jozy was most certainly up top and Bradley was most certainly firmly planted in the middle above Jones and Beckerman.

Jones and Beckerman were only square on defense but Jones got forward much more often than Beckerman who was obviously tethered to Besler and Cam as he should have been.

JK's words rarely match his actions but his comment that formations are meaningless might be relatively true in this latest setup.

 
It was painful this morning filling out brackets with my son. He's so young and innocent. He desperately wants to win the contest (no chance) to win a match Brazuca from a local soccer shop. Agonized over whether US or Germany would win our group, later went with his "gut" in picking US over Argentina in a penalty shoot out to reach the semis. I feel I'm setting him up for a lifetime of pain with US Soccer.

 
NewlyRetired said:
I have a question about tactics.

Please assume a rough 4-2-3-1 as we saw yesterday.

Also assume that an important part of the tactics will be Fab going forward.

Almost every time Fab went forward yesterday, the gap on his side was cavernous and every time the ball was turned over Nigeria was able to exploit that space.

Who has the responsibility to cover that space? Should Cam slide over or should Beckerman slide over?
Click to expand...
It's going to depend on the starting position of Cam/Becks at the time of the turnover. In general though, I think it's the CB's job to stop the ball out wide there while the DM/Beck drops inside to cover for him. In this case, our back line is extremely narrow and Besler slid over to cover for Cameron. This formation is going to be tough to beat through the middle, but will leave open opposition fullbacks if they bomb forward.

I do not like the idea of Beckerman going out wide like that. I think I would prefer Cam to slide over and Becks to slide back. That might open up space in the middle but we have to give something up if Fab intends on getting so deep and linking with the right sided midfielder/forward.
Click to expand...
With a narrow back line and with Jones/Bradely also in the midfield. I'd like to see Backerman make the stop. Jones slides over to cover and that gives Bradley time to track back into Jones' spot. All the while not causing our back line to have to shift too much.

 
NewlyRetired said:
wdcrob said:
NewlyRetired said:
I have a question about tactics.

Please assume a rough 4-2-3-1 as we saw yesterday.

Also assume that an important part if the tactics will be Fab going forward.

Almost every time Fab went forward yesterday, the gap on his side was cavernous and every time the ball was turned over Nigeria was able to exploit that space.

Who has the responsibility to cover that space? Should Cam slide over or should Beckerman slide over?

I do not like the idea of Beckerman going out wide like that. I think I would prefer Cam to slide over and Becks to slide back. That might open up space in the middle but we have to give something up if Fab intends on getting so deep and linking with the right sided midfielder/forward.
Click to expand...
I noticed Cameron shifting wide several times yesterday and wondered if that was normal for a CB. Seems like it would usually be a defensive mid or the right mid covering.

Also... how did Dempsey and Bedoya/Zusi actually line up? What were their responsibilities in that formation? Was Dempsey playing as a forward? Was it really more of a 2-2 box in the midfield?

Any of the tactical folks here want to lay show the lineup yesterday and who had responsibility for what?
Click to expand...
I was watching closely and it was very difficult to tell.

Bedoya switched sides half way through, Dempsey appeared to roam more around. Jozy was most certainly up top and Bradley was most certainly firmly planted in the middle above Jones and Beckerman.

Jones and Beckerman were only square on defense but Jones got forward much more often than Beckerman who was obviously tethered to Besler and Cam as he should have been.

JK's words rarely match his actions but his comment that formations are meaningless might be relatively true in this latest setup.
Click to expand...
I am getting ready to try watch the replay on the tactical cam - but as I was watching yesterday, I think your last sentence sums it up. There were times that the formation looked more like a christmas tree 4-3-2-1, and it even resembled a flat diamond at times, in addition to the presumed 4-2-3-1.

I think the only people who stayed in the same role were the back 4, and Bradley. But even then, it clear that the outside backs are expected to provide much of the width on attack, so really you are looking at Besler/Cameron and Bradley who remained focused on the middle of the field.

Dempsey and Jozy switched back and forth several times in the game, presumably so the Dempsey could get a little rest from helping Bradley close down on the ball.

 
It wouldn't be a World Cup without a story like this

Cameroon’s World Cup squad have refused to board a plane due to take them to Brazil for the World Cup because of disputes over bonuses, according to French sports newspaper L’Equipe. The newspaper’s website claims that the squad have instead remained at their hotel in the Cameroonian capital Yaoundé, while reporters have camped outside the Cameroon Football Federation headquarters awaiting further information.

The players were due to fly out from Yaoundé on Sunday morning, in a plane specially chartered by Cameroon President Paul Biya. It’s emerged that the squad have so far refused to travel because the World Cup bonuses they are being offered are not as much as expected.

It’s also alleged that the players had considered calling a strike over a fortnight ago, during the squad’s World Cup training camp, but postponed any action. Cameroon have since played a series of warm-up friendly matches, drawing 2-2 with Germany and beating Moldova 1-0 on Saturday, after which the tensions within the squad are said to have increased.
Click to expand...
 
So, 10-minutes into the game, and it actually looks more like a 4-4-2 diamond than I thought yesterday.

Jones is playing the left MF role - his spacing on the left is essentially the same as Bedoya's on the right.

 
Eephus said:
It wouldn't be a World Cup without a story like this

Cameroon’s World Cup squad have refused to board a plane due to take them to Brazil for the World Cup because of disputes over bonuses, according to French sports newspaper L’Equipe. The newspaper’s website claims that the squad have instead remained at their hotel in the Cameroonian capital Yaoundé, while reporters have camped outside the Cameroon Football Federation headquarters awaiting further information.

The players were due to fly out from Yaoundé on Sunday morning, in a plane specially chartered by Cameroon President Paul Biya. It’s emerged that the squad have so far refused to travel because the World Cup bonuses they are being offered are not as much as expected.

It’s also alleged that the players had considered calling a strike over a fortnight ago, during the squad’s World Cup training camp, but postponed any action. Cameroon have since played a series of warm-up friendly matches, drawing 2-2 with Germany and beating Moldova 1-0 on Saturday, after which the tensions within the squad are said to have increased.
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Click to expand...
It is always an African team too.

 
This is definitely still the Diamond.

The US is playing very compact, both front to back, and right to left. When the ball is on one side of the field, the team shifts so that Jones and/or Bedoya are really set up in the middle of the field - only the outside back remains on his side of the field - everyone else has shifted to one side. I think this gave the appearance that Jones was playing along side Beckerman more than he really was.

I have only seen Bedoya switch sides twice in the first 30 minutes - once to track a man on a throw-in, and the second time to take a corner kick from our left side. I just got to the first goal - the play started in the back, the US was switching the ball from our left to right, so the team was also shifting to our right - Jones made a great run from the middle to get a ball from Cameron in-between their midfield and defense, before pushing the ball out wide to Bedoya, who hit Fabian coming inside, who then got the ball to Jozy.

Jones run

Bedoya on ball

Fabian run

Golazo

 
NewlyRetired said:
Eephus said:
It wouldn't be a World Cup without a story like this

Cameroon’s World Cup squad have refused to board a plane due to take them to Brazil for the World Cup because of disputes over bonuses, according to French sports newspaper L’Equipe. The newspaper’s website claims that the squad have instead remained at their hotel in the Cameroonian capital Yaoundé, while reporters have camped outside the Cameroon Football Federation headquarters awaiting further information.

The players were due to fly out from Yaoundé on Sunday morning, in a plane specially chartered by Cameroon President Paul Biya. It’s emerged that the squad have so far refused to travel because the World Cup bonuses they are being offered are not as much as expected.

It’s also alleged that the players had considered calling a strike over a fortnight ago, during the squad’s World Cup training camp, but postponed any action. Cameroon have since played a series of warm-up friendly matches, drawing 2-2 with Germany and beating Moldova 1-0 on Saturday, after which the tensions within the squad are said to have increased.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
It is always an African team too.
Click to expand...
Crisis averted. Thanks Obama

Cameroon's squad will depart for the World Cup 12 hours later than scheduled after resolving a strike over bonuses that saw them refuse to board the plane to Brazil on Sunday, the soccer federation (FECAFOOT) said.

They have settled a dispute with the government and FECAFOOT and will receive 5.8 million CFA francs ($12,100) more than the 50 million CFA francs originally offered to each player for their participation in the tournament.

“Everything is ok now. We will embark tonight”, FECAFOOT spokesman Laurence Fotso told Reuters, adding that the federation had to borrow the funds to pay the bonuses.

“That money is given (by FIFA) three months after the end of the competition”, said Fotso. So FECAFOOT “borrowed money as a private loan to satisfy the players”.

Cameroon coach Volker Finke told German broadcaster Sport1: "There has been an agreement now and there is no need to make a big sensation out of it or make huge stories out of it".

The players initially refused to leave their Yaounde hotel on Sunday for an 0800 GMT departure for Rio de Janeiro, where world governing body FIFA said they were expected at 1925 GMT.
Click to expand...
 
wdcrob said:
Norman Paperman said:
Norman Paperman said:
So, 10-minutes into the game, and it actually looks more like a 4-4-2 diamond than I thought yesterday.

Jones is playing the left MF role - his spacing on the left is essentially the same as Bedoya's on the right.
Click to expand...
Screen Cap of Goal kick

Screen Cap of 2nd Goal kick
Click to expand...
What is the "tactical cam"?
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ESPN had a camera set up behind the goal - you can watch the whole field for the entire game. Camera is a still camera, no re-plays, a few zoom-ins/outs, but mostly you see the entire field from the goal. Same camera for the whole game - so I got a really good view of the 1st goal, but the 2nd goal will not be so good - at least from a close-up perspective.

It really allows you to see how they are set up, where the runs are coming from, etc.

 
Thanks for sorting that out Sinn.

So, basically the US is opting to play very narrowly here in lieu of a true wide player into the starting lineup?

Am I right that's probably not how we'll play against Portugal.

 
I think Andy had asked earlier about who has responsibility when Fabian goes forward - looks like dual responsibility - Bedoya gets back, and assuming the ball in on our right, Cameron is naturally shifting over.

 
wdcrob said:
Thanks for sorting that out Sinn.

So, basically the US is opting to play very narrowly here in lieu of a true wide player into the starting lineup?

Am I right that's probably not how we'll play against Portugal.
Click to expand...
Yes - the width generally is coming from Fabian and Beasley - though both Jones and Bedoya have played out wide a bit. Essentially it looks like they "shrink" or compact on defense, then expand a bit with the ball.

Both Jozy and Dempsey have made runs in the channels, but generally not out wide.

Bedoya looks to take the corners in this set-up, Bradley took a free kick that was probably a little bit out of range for a shot, maybe Dempsey would take free kicks just outside the 18.

 
Norman Paperman said:
Norman Paperman said:
I think Andy had asked earlier about who has responsibility when Fabian goes forward - looks like dual responsibility - Bedoya gets back, and assuming the ball in on our right, Cameron is naturally shifting over.
Click to expand...
I should add that the US is conceding space out wide on both sides of the field.
Click to expand...
Yup, that was the basis behind my point about the fullbacks that like to get forward. It's basically saying to the other team, "If you can hit that low percentage long diagonal across the field, have at it"

 
Just wanted to say that I took my teenage sons to the game yesterday and we all had a blast. Crowd was very loud.

We had great seats about a dozen rows up just inside the 18. Jozy's pretty second goal was right in front of us.

I'm not a Jermaine Jones fan but I sure hope they keep Beckerman back there in whatever formation they go with.

Yeah, Clattenburg was not good.

Only bad part was that somebody fell from the upper deck a few sections over from us. Didn't see it but the thud was LOUD.

Fan is in critical condition the last I heard.

 
Quote from Bedoya - calls it the 4-3-2-1:

“We played a 4-3-2-1 today and I think the main job of me, Jermaine and Kyle was pretty much first of all to help the back four, keep it tight,” said Bedoya. “We talked about Nigeria. They have type of players that like to combine through the middle and as long we stay compact in the middle, force them out wide, then that’s what we were going to do.

“That involves a lot of running between me, Kyle and Jermaine. We shift into one side making sure that we stay compact and then if they switch it (we have) to get back over there, as well as the connections between me and Fabian (Johnson) and Jermaine and (DaMarcus Beasley) at left back. It’s a work in progress, but I think defensively we did pretty well.”
Click to expand...
 
“We really didn’t even have a formation,” said centerback Matt Besler. “We just talked about individual responsibilities and we wanted to make sure that we got guys behind the ball and into the right shape as soon as we lost it. For the most part, I thought we did a very, very good job. The guys in front of us got into shape, they were working their butts off tonight. It’s a lot of credit to the entire team defensively for not giving up much at all.”

Another intriguing aspect of Klinsmann’s lineup was that it allowed for both Jones and Beckerman to get on the field together. The general consensus in recent years is that there is only one position for the two of them, but the veteran duo looked to have a good understanding and level of comfort with one another against Nigeria.
Click to expand...
 
In this position, you have to run more,” said Jermaine Jones. “Kyle played the “six” with Bedoya on the right and me on the left. In front was Michael and Clint, and Jozy on top. But the game shows there are differences, I have to be more inside with Kyle or out on the left side. This is why I say I have to run a lot.”

The 32-year-old then said with a chuckle, “sometimes for the old guys that is not so good.” It drew a laugh from the scrum of reporters, but the point was there – if the US is to deploy this tactic against Ghana, they will need to be at full fitness levels to run the formation to completion.

All that running comes from the polarizing difference in the formation between the compact defense and wide-open offense, like a hollow-point bullet expanding on impact for maximum damage. With the tactic so new to just about everyone, it took some time in the beginning to settle in, but once they figured it out, the team became deadly.

“It took us a while to get into the game because we couldn’t keep the ball the first 20-25 minutes long enough to play out of the situation and switch sides and make it open,” Klinsmann said. “Once we understood to make the field more wide, to stretch it – almost cost me my voice – we looked better, and we started to have more flow and better combinations. We started to play more simple, one-two touches from the back into the midfield, and finding Jozy.”
Click to expand...
 
JaxBill said:
Just wanted to say that I took my teenage sons to the game yesterday and we all had a blast. Crowd was very loud.

We had great seats about a dozen rows up just inside the 18. Jozy's pretty second goal was right in front of us.
Click to expand...
Very cool!

 
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