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Was it your awesome forward thinking that caused you to bust out this same condescending and chest thumping schtick when people questioned your huge all-in calls on Montee Ball and Christine Michael? If so, I'll happily continue to anchor my valuations on actual NFL production and math.
L O ...oops, can't use that one. Didn't realize that term which must not be used was "discourteous". Please no explanation needed.
IMO Jeffery is overrated by those who consider him a top 10 dynasty WR for a number of reasons:
So your valuations based on NFL production and math are never wrong? I understand the negative reaction to Bruce's statement, but I don't think the fact that he may have missed on some calls in the past is meaningful. I'm not aware of anyone who has a perfect track record when making calls with conviction on rookies. Are you?
Of course no one is perfect. I'm certainly not. But the FF resume posting and posturing after taking such an extreme position and then calling someone else out for a LOL kind of rubs me the wrong way, hence the response.
Then better to just say you don't like his statement than to go further and bash him for past missed calls when, as you admit, we all make them.
There are certainly some reasonable arguments for downgrading Jeffrey based on situation -- but all of those apply equally to White. I think that the White > Jeffrey component was what sparked the strong pushback as opposed to the Jeffrey isn't top-10. I tend to agree that Jeffrey isnt a guy I'm looking to buy at his current price -- but he's still solidly ahead of the entire inbound rookie WR crop from me, despite my love for Amari Cooper.
Oof, that's not a great stat. The only ones we can say definitively aren't busts are Jones and Green. The only ones we can definitively say are busts are Blackmon and Austin. That's only a 50% hit rate. Too early to tell completely on Evans and Watkins. Evans is very very unlikely to bust imo, but there are examples of super promising rookies that didn't fulfill that potential in later years (most often RBs, though). Watkins is a trickier case, given the changes Buffalo has made. In terms of fantasy production, and given that he was taken at 1.01 in most fantasy rookie drafts, I could see him being a "bust," in terms of not being better than a low end WR2 or possibly worse, for the next few years. You obviously can't include Cooper and White yet when you're talking about whether NFL top 10 WR picks bust or not.
Part of it was the fact that I got that exact same attitude on both Ball and Michael from him last year -- although I'm also fairly salty at times on here so glass houses and all. I definitely respect Bruce's opinion more than I do many / most around here and was more just jabbing in fun as opposed to bashing. But you're right, it doesn't add much to the discussion.
Wouldn't both of these affect White as well?
Basically, as I see it, the points I listed will result in an offense that can support one quality fantasy WR1, not two, as has happened with Marshall and Jeffery in the past. Taking a view longer than just the 2015 season, I see White as that guy, not Jeffery.
How I see this group:
it will be interesting to see and I don't fault anyone for liking White, but what happens if you push the past history just a few more years? DHB, Crabtree, Megatron, Ginn, Braylon Edwards, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams... not exactly an inspiring list. Biggest problem I have with White is a lack of a long term track record, which just means there's more risk than there was with Calvin or others.
Sure, in general I agree with you. But there is obviously more risk in even these highest rated rookies (Cooper, White) than in established high end WRs, that's all.
Hmm. I own Peterson and I would almost take that for him. I think I'd hold Peterson. I'd accept the 1.3 because I'd be guaranteed Gurley, Gordon, or Cooper. So good trade for you, I think.
Sometimes opinions are funny. This is one of them
This.Also, white at 7th isn't necessarily indicitive of anything negative for Alshon. Even with the coaching change and change to the offensive mindset that is likely coming, theyve had more than reasonable success utilizing two big WRs, i think this was a case of BPA and scheme fit coming together, thats my take.
I agree with you guys on everything except the comparison of White and Jeffrey. Can't fault anyone for choosing White over Jeffrey. Jeffrey is not elite. Who knows how that will play out in the end but both are very talented. No one really knows who will have the more productive fantasy career.
I think forward thinking people will view Chicago as a bit of a dumpster fire and devalue both guys. Jeffery is a FA in 2016.
Woooooooo.
see how whoever games up sims for ball got ripped?
And all those runner ups would be to the champions who take young proven studs over NON-generational talent rookies.
I have sims in 2 of 3 dyno leagues (32 a d 16 teams) but I'm not sold on him doing well as a feature back. I think he can be a very good tool in Winston's toolkit but I'd think the likelihood of ball being a feature back is slightly better. So is his chance of busting completely, so I think the trade is objectively even in smaller leagues.
I'm the one acquiring Ball obviously. Betting on the chance his bad performance last year was due to rushing back from his appendectomy. I didn't like what I saw out of Sims last year either (his YPC was 1.5 yards less than Bobby Rainey, for example). He is a good receiver, so he could possibly be Roy Helu, but that may be his limit. It was a gamble on upside because I feel whoever is starting for Kubiak will be good, and I'm not sure that is true in TB despite the OL improvement. Could have said the same thing about Pierce last year, but worth a shot IMO.
Ball. I have a nagging feeling something could happen to Anderson and, with Kubiak in Denver, Ball could be huge in the zone-read offense.
I would imagine anyone willing to pay 12+M for a WR will have a QB they believe can take advantage of that. I can't imagine him going to a much worse situation as a FA after he is franchised (if they choose to)
close. I probably would have kept what you had but I can see either way
Close. Probably Ball
As long as you are good at QB I think you did better than OK
Very nice deal. Cooks is worth quite a bit more than Bryant and this rookie class starts dropping off after 10 or 11 picks I think.
