Hopefully people don't look at Cousins like they did Jason Campbell based on stats. Jason was the king of the garbage yards/points for a number of years because they were getting the crap beat out of them in the 1st - 3rd quarter
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**Official** 2015 Washington Redskins Thread YOU LIKE THAT! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sebowski
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cobalt_27
Footballguy
Such a good article. Wonder how many Washington fans here identify...
http://deadspin.com/nobody-hates-the-skins-more-than-skins-fans-1730793110?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
http://deadspin.com/nobody-hates-the-skins-more-than-skins-fans-1730793110?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
Did he day this with a straight face?Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Why all this radio talk about Callahan being a potential successor to Gruden? He seems to be a fine OL coach. But looking at his head coaching record...
Oakland (2002-2003): 11-5, 4-12
Nebraska (2004-2007): 5-6, 8-4, 9-5, and 5-7.
In OAK he took over a team Jon Gruden built and tanked it in 2 years. It's almost hard to lose at Nebraska. The coach before him was 59-19 and the coach after him was 66-28.
So is there a reason Callahan keeps coming up as a replacement to Gruden if this season totally plunks?
Oakland (2002-2003): 11-5, 4-12
Nebraska (2004-2007): 5-6, 8-4, 9-5, and 5-7.
In OAK he took over a team Jon Gruden built and tanked it in 2 years. It's almost hard to lose at Nebraska. The coach before him was 59-19 and the coach after him was 66-28.
So is there a reason Callahan keeps coming up as a replacement to Gruden if this season totally plunks?
MattFancy
Footballguy
Mainly because the local radio idiots here have no idea what they are talking about.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Just like Gregg Williams was going to succeed Joe Gibbs and Kyle Shanahan was going succeed his dad.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Does anyone else have problem with the idea that RGIII isn't an NFL QB but Tryod Taylor is? Being from Virginia, I watched a ton of Taylor's college games. I'm really happy for him but I never saw him as a starter in the NFL. I don't know it's just hard to believe that he could be the QB of a potential playoff team but Griffin can't even start for a horrible team like the redskins.
MattFancy
Footballguy
It's because he has a coach that is actually willing to adjust his system to fit what his QB's strengths are. That would actually require Gruden to coach and make adjustments.
dhockster
Footballguy
RGIII's first season went pretty well, right? Give Taylor a little bit of time as a starter and give other teams some film of him to scheme against and then make the comparison. I am not saying he is going to fail, but to judge him as a long-term starter after only 3 games is a bit soon.
Also look at Kaepernick. The simplistic nature of some of these systems work well for a bit. If the offense consistently needs to be simple so the QB can run it, it makes it easier for good defenses to adjust as well.
Hang 10
Footballguy
I think it's more about what MattFancy just wrote. If you have a team that's built on good defense and a running game, you can let a athletic QB like Taylor manage the game for the most part and then make plays when things go off script. Think Russell Wilson as a rookie. You don't drop him 5 and 7 steps and make his throw out of the pocket if that's a weak area of his game.
At this point, it seems like the only way the redskins can win a game is by grinding it out. Leaning on the defense, running game and limiting the opportunities for mistakes by the QB. This team won't win with any QB asking him to throw 30+ times a game.
Hang 10
Footballguy
dhockster
Footballguy
After last season when all 3 QB'S Seemed to regress, I would say that status is in question. Dalton seems to be doing just fine without him.
Hang 10
Footballguy
You don't get the reputation of a QB guru based on the success of one QB and you definitely don't get the reputation if that one QB is Andy Dalton.
That's what the organization claimed when he got here. How he'll work with Griffin to take him to the next level.......what a joke.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Considering there has been zero improvement from Griffin or Cousins, I think the days of being a "QB guru" are over. Like others have said, Dalton has actually looked as good if not better than when Gruden left Cincy.
MattFancy
Footballguy
With the track record of our castoff kickers, I'd totally expect Forbath to nail a 50 yarder against us this week.
dgreen
Footballguy
SeanTaylor21
Footballguy
If he even kicks one touchback, I'd hope he gets smashed on a kick return by the likes of Spaight.
dgreen
Footballguy
To be fair, Griffin at one point told the Shanahans that he did not want to run the read option and he wanted to be a pocket QB. That is when it all started to fall apart.
It is not clear if Gruden was going to run any read option with Griffin. It apparently is in the play book, but Cousins has only run it a few times. Cousins and McCoy both ran some read option in the preseason. Griffin none.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Ted Mullins
Footballguy
Griffin not wanting to run read-option any more was brought up pretty often on the local radio after his big 2012 season, don't think it was really big news nationally. His dad was quoted on it as well. Seemed like the general narrative was that Griffin blamed his injuries on the offense (although his injuries weren't on designed runs) and his success as a rookie led to him thinking he could do a lot more. A lot of this comes from Mike Shanahan's side of the story so take it FWIW, but it definitely seems to me like Griffin got tired of being considered a "gimmick" qb.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/robert-griffin-iii-wants-play-pro-style-offense-204506917--nfl.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/robert-griffin-iiis-father-says-hed-like-to-see-a-lot-of-passing-in-redskins-offense/2013/05/22/7afcc6d8-c30f-11e2-914f-a7aba60512a7_story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/02/18/mike-shanahan-blames-daniel-snyder-for-rgiiis-infatuation-with-being-an-aaron-rodgers-type-guy/
From Mike Shanahan:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/robert-griffin-iii-wants-play-pro-style-offense-204506917--nfl.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/robert-griffin-iiis-father-says-hed-like-to-see-a-lot-of-passing-in-redskins-offense/2013/05/22/7afcc6d8-c30f-11e2-914f-a7aba60512a7_story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/02/18/mike-shanahan-blames-daniel-snyder-for-rgiiis-infatuation-with-being-an-aaron-rodgers-type-guy/
From Mike Shanahan:
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SeanTaylor21
Footballguy
Very interesting stuff here... I don't know what to make of it but it seems to me that RG3 should have wanted to run the same offense (only style he's ever run) but just be better with decision making as of when to slide/go out of bounds/throw it away.
I have never had the feeling that he would, in a real game, choose to take the safe route 100% of the time. I think it's just his nature to try and do too much and it makes him a risk to get hurt anytime the pigskin is in his hands.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Would be interesting to hear the other side of that conversation. Shanahan has done nothing but paint himself a victim or some innocent bystander his whole tenure here. This despite him having final say on all football related decisions.
I remember hearing some sports talk about what really burned the bridge between Mike and Griffin. Supposedly they met before the Seattle playoff game and more or less they discussed how they weren't going to call as much read option because Griffin wasn't healthy. And well, you know the rest of the story. After that Griffin lost trust in the Shanahan's.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I always love hearing Shanahan talk about his time here. For someone that had "complete control" over decisions, he surely doesn't take blame for anything while he was here.
I don't really understand the last line as the grammar doesn't make it readable. Is Shanny implying that RG had a conversation with Dan about it and Dan urged him to tell Shanny how "unacceptable" things were?
Hang 10
Footballguy
That seems to be the implication. When in doubt, blame Snyder. Shanahan was at least smart enough to know that blaming the owner is an easy sell in this town.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Ted Mullins
Footballguy
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I don't think Shanny's clean in all of this - he's just spoke on it some for the last few years while everyone else has tried to move on. Wish things could have worked out with Kyle Shanahan as OC, don't care that Mike is gone and you can see that his draft picks are mostly gone.
Yeah, I think I may have left out some context, sorry if I did - I think Shanny was trying to say that Snyder often refers to things as "unacceptable" so when RG3 was saying plays were "unacceptable" he assumed RG3 had spoken to Snyder about this and felt empowered by it.
Hmmm Interesting. Sounds like Shanny is definitely trying to throw the owner under the bus, but it doesn't sound like this story is something that could have been totally fabricated. I could see Dan telling RG about how unacceptable it all is and pushing RG to tell that to the coach.
GreedoShotFirst
Footballguy
I'm looking for 3 tickets to the Skins-Eagles on Sunday. Anybody have some that they are interested in selling for a reasonable price? PM me.
thanks,
Skinsfan
thanks,
Skinsfan
The word "unacceptable" is used by the majority of the English speaking world Shanny....we get it, you were the victim. See this is what I don't get. RG3 was doing well, but what was the biggest knock against him by all the experts and such? That he wouldn't last playing in a read option type offense and he needed to develop into a pocket QB. Well that's exactly what he asked to do and it's now used as a reference point as him being a locker room cancer and coach killer. Meh. The Skins/Shanny ruined him. He helped sink himself, but still....suck to think about how fast this all went to the crapper.
Gruden is a joke. I feel sorry for Redskins fans who now will have to suffer even longer because of the Rams win.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Gruden is a terd
We'll probably never know to what extent the mishandling of Robert Griffin was Skeletor's fault, Griffin's fault, or Little Danny's fault. However, either way -- however you ascribe blame -- certain facts remain the same:
1. Griffin excelled in the read option offense. Pretty much everyone says that he could not have done this extensively, as it would have negatively impacted his career.
2. Griffin has NOT excelled in a drop back pass offense. While it's true that Cousins has not solved his INT problem, and while it's true that Gruden seems to like Cousins better, none of this changes the fact that Griffin himself on the field was not showing mastery of the drop back game. WHen he was taking 4-5 sacks a game, we all blamed the offensive line and yet the other QBs are not taking that many sacks. So he didn't show the ability to quickly read the field or have the pocket presence to stay out of trouble.
So the proper offense for him was probably something hybrid where he could move out of the pocket, basically what Kyle designed for him. The Redskins claimed at the time that he was actually SAFER in this offense AS LONG AS HE PROTECTED HIMSELF FROM THE BIG HIT.
3. What caused Griffin's injury was NOT option play. Everyone brings up Baltimore. That hit did not result from read option. Griffin was to pass that play and he broke free on a scramble, trying to make a play to help his team win. We were behind and driving for a score in the fourth quarter. We needed the win to keep our playoff hopes alive. To Robert's credit, he tried to make a play. I DO NOT JUDGE HIM FOR THAT. He took one for the team at his own expense. It didn't work out for him.
4. What I blame Griffin for: I really don't believe read option put him in danger. I believe that his own failure to protect himself did. Redskins could have run an offense like Seattle with occasional runs but Griffin would have to get down and protect himself like Wilson. Griffin never showed the ability to do so. That's what got him vs. the Ravens...not read option.
5. What I blame Shanny for: playing Griffin vs. Seattle. I don't care if Griffin said he was good to go. I don't care if Snyder said put him in. I don't care if Dr. Andrews said he was fine. You are a coach and you knew he wasn't fine. Be a man and decide who is best man to go out and play. Every fan watching that game was screaming at the TV -- particularly after the Redskins were leading -- put Kirk in.
6. WHat I blame Danny for: I'm almost certain that Danny was the one who engineered the Griffin trade, for marketing purposes. His downfall here was that no one evaluated the talent sufficient to see if he could even play in a drop back mode. How can you give up 3 number ones on a complete guess? YOu did it only for marketing and in the process shafted the Redskins, Griffin, and the fans in one fell swoop.
Bottom line to me: Griffin is a remarkable talent who could have excelled if he was in a situation where they played hybrid offense with lots of movement, some read option, but also with Griffin ability to get down and protect himself. Neither the Redskins nor Griffin had the vision or patience to execute this, so the experiment was a failure. But Kyle Shanahan, in devising the offense, did have a hint of what to do. If they could have just tweaked the offense or Griffin's mentality to get him to keep himself save it COULD have worked. But jumping wildly from all read option to all drop back was just doomed for disaster, with a QB who didn't really have the skill set to make that transition immediately.
Hang 10
Footballguy
I agree with everything you said except for point #6.
Once again, Shanahan had total football control but since he's left town he's tried to blame Snyder for McNabb and Griffin. Those were the two biggest personnel moves of the Shanahan era and he didn't have anything to do with it? Bull ####.
If Mike couldn't exercise his total control there, what decisions did he make? Bringing in Rex and John Beck?
MattFancy
Footballguy
IMO, what really hurt Griffin was not having that offseason in between 2012 and 2013. He spent all offseason rehabbing his knee to get back in time and wasn't able to refine his game. Think if he had a full offseason that year to work on his mechanics and studying defenses, I think he is a much better QB than he is today.
Hang 10
Footballguy
That's a big part of it but I think the biggest thing was losing trust in the coaching staff. I remember at the time the Nationals were doing everything they could to err on the side of caution with their young talented pitcher (Strasburg) and the Redskins were doing the exact opposite. While Griffin might not have suffered major injury running the read option, some games he did take quite a beating because he was trying to put the team on his back. I agree that a lot of the shots he took were because he didn't know how to slide or get out of bounds but that's why he's got coaches that should know better, right? Does anyone remember early in 2012 when the Skins played the Bengals? The Skins were running the effing option and he was getting killed. It was hard to watch but he was the only offense they had, so they just kept on riding him.
If RGIII was as raw as Shanahan thought he was as a rookie, why did he start him day one? IMO he started him because of his own ego. There was no time to groom him because super bowl winning coach Mike Shanahan was coming off back to back 10+ loss seasons. He cared more about his own legacy than he cared about the Griffin and the team's future. To me that's why him and RG3 had a meeting about what was no longer acceptable.
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Shanny was the coach and definitely deserves his share of the blame.
Hopefully, this process has not destroyed Griffin and he can go on somewhere else and rebuild his career. I don't see him doing it with Gruden; that well has been poisoned.
But if Gruden can only get the team to 4 wins this year, I could totally see Griffin surviving Gruden and trying again with a new coach. That would be absolutely insane but it could absolutely happen.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Yeah, I can't see Griffin ever turning it around in Washington unfortunately. Not the way this season is playing out anyway. The media turned on him and now a good portion of the fan base has too. Not sure if it would matter who was coaching next year because people would have no patience for him.
The slimmest of hopes would be if he got in some time this year and showed some flashes of 2012. He'd have to have some momentum going into next year.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Here's a question, if Cousins continues to struggle, does Gruden really stick with him all season? I mean we're 3 games in, so its still too early, but Cousins hasn't really looked all that impressive. Sure, he's only been sacked 4 times, but he also has 4 INTs through 3 games. Doesn't look like he's solved his turnover problem. And honestly, the offense hasn't really looked great except for St Louis and that was more the running game than Cousins. The offense through 3 games has scored 15 points in the 2nd half (7 last week came off a KO return). Does Gruden really stick with Cousins til the end this year?
Hang 10
Footballguy
I don't think Gruden has the will or the power to let Cousins struggle as starter all year. I have a hard time seeing him in there after week 6 if this trend continues.
Per Shanahan (so take it with a grain of salt), he had a long term plan to develop Griffin as a pocket passer. And it was going to take years. So the plan was to run read options and develop his skills as a pocket passer. During the 2012 season, Griffin came into Mike Shanahan's office and said he no longer wanted to run the read option. Shanahan immediately knew he was screwed. He also strongly suggested Griffin talked to Snyder and felt empowered.
Also big on the list for ruining Griffin: Griffin pushed so hard to get into every game even when injured. Griffin was pissed that he sat out the Cleveland game in 2012. He came back the following week and he sure did not look healed to me. In the Seattle game, he should have been taken out. I think that is the game where Griffin hid from the doctors so they could not examine him and told them everything was fine.
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