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**Official** 2015 Washington Redskins Thread YOU LIKE THAT! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sebowski
- Start date
No but it's still a check that the owner needs to pay out. That's a pile of money potentially for two guys who aren't contributing to the team.
MattFancy
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
Best I can see for them this season, if everything goes as right as it can go from here on out, is 6 wins. But they can't get to 6 with Cousins, unless somehow he turns into NotKirkCousins (like Bizarro Superman or something). He's throwing passes within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, a game manager type game, yet he's a terrible game manager because he either gambles, panics, or doesn't see something blatantly obvious like Revis. They can't get to 6 wins with Cousins.
And honestly, I want as many wins as possible each year. Nothing else matters during the season.
My opinion: if Cousins is benched, the next man up has to be McCoy. Griffin has had his chances. There is no reason to start him again just to see what he can do.
Heard on the radio (I think Tom Laverro) that there are people in the front office that are terrified that if they cut Griffin, Chip Kelley will pick him up and use a system to make him a great QB. And then they have to face him twice a year. They can keep him this year and at least delay Griffin to Philly for one year.
Heard on the radio (I think Tom Laverro) that there are people in the front office that are terrified that if they cut Griffin, Chip Kelley will pick him up and use a system to make him a great QB. And then they have to face him twice a year. They can keep him this year and at least delay Griffin to Philly for one year.
That's what dysfunctional teams do. I'm tired of it things need to move in a healthy and professional level not the same stupid crap that's been going on here.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I wouldn't mind McCoy, but don't we already know what he can do? Kind of a less turnover prone version of Cousins. Better game manager, but he's not going to go out and win games by himself. Though, who knows if this version of Griffin can too. I'd rather see us go down in flames the rest of the season with Griffin than with McCoy. At least if Griffin fails again, after being demoted to 3rd string, then we know it's never going to happen. But as long as this season goes on with no Griffin, there's always going to be that what if.
fatness
Footballguy
I agree with you about McCoy being next up. I think he's probably more prepared right now than Griffin is to go into a game. And I really don't care about the "we know what we have in McCoy" talk. Hell, we know what we have in all 3 QB's and in the coach. It's still about winning as many games as you can win. If McCoy went down to injury I don't think Griffin's bonus should have anything to do with him not playing if he's "next man up". It's all about winning games. Bonuses, contracts, potential, etc. --- all those are secondary to winning as many games out of 16 as possible.
On your other point, I can see Kelly or some other teams working with Griffin and having success. I don't think it's guaranteed that they would, but I certainly think it's possible. Coaching here has been the pits for years.
Re: releasing Griffin, having another team pick him up, him being great and beating us.
Look, either you (Redskins) think Griffin is a good player or you do not. If you think he is a great player, then YOU design the system for him and let him be good. If you do not think he is a good player, then who cares if Philadelphia signs him or not, because they will be starting a player who is not good.
Thinking he is not good enough to start for your team but that he's good enough to beat you playing for another team? That's like the ramblings of a paranoid, crazy person. If any front office types think that way, then I hope they are not in the front office for long...
ETA: That said, I tend to agree with you that McCoy will be next man up. I really don't know why the Redskins are even holding on to Griffin at this point. You can't keep him bottled up for ever, so you might as well let him go now...both for his sake and for your own.
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Hang 10
Footballguy
dgreen
Footballguy
Yeah, I've heard/read good things about his play. Keim wrote that one of the sack/fumbles in the Atlanta games was due to Jarrett bumping/redirecting TWO receivers on the same, throwing off Ryan's timing. Amazingly, many thought the secondary was going to be a weak group, but they seem to be doing ok despite missing 3 would-be starters (Hall, Culliver, and Ihenacho).
Breeland is potentially a stud. Blackmon is a nice veteran pickup. Jarrett was a good find. And Dunbar I believe was a converted WR who is actually contributing with some plays.
(I really don't want to talk about the QB position.)
MattFancy
Footballguy
The 2 weak spots going in were the secondary and the OL. Both have been better than expected even though both have had to deal with injuries.
Since it is never too early to think about the offseason, is there a possibility that Gruden is fired, McCloughan hires someone like Darrell Bevell, and Griffin gets another shot at being the Redskins' QB?
I have no idea when or if his option become guaranteed and under what circumstances. If he can be but during the preseason with no ramifications, there is no reason no to keep him around for training camp. Of course, if he get injured in the preseason, does the injury guarantee still kick in?
I have no idea when or if his option become guaranteed and under what circumstances. If he can be but during the preseason with no ramifications, there is no reason no to keep him around for training camp. Of course, if he get injured in the preseason, does the injury guarantee still kick in?
MattFancy
Footballguy
No idea?
Pretty sure his deal becomes guaranteed at the start of the new league year. Could be wrong, but I thought that's what I remember hearing. Now, of course the Skins could try and re-work the deal if they wanted to keep him.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I don't disagree. I don't see any way he would want to come back if Gruden is still here.
If Gruden goes and Scottie Mac believes in him, then maybe they say we'll give you a 2 yr deal for $X or we'll cut you and you take a chance of not getting as much.
Hang 10
Footballguy
I doubt Gruden will be back either way...at least that's my hope. But even if Gruden is gone, I think the well is too poisoned to bring Griffin back and if I'm him, I want a fresh start.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Don't disagree at all. Was just trying to lay out a scenario where he could return. Will it happen? I doubt it.
Ted Mullins
Footballguy
This seems like a real possibility but what a sad, pathetic way to make a decision. Spend 10-12% of our cap to keep a guy on the bench because someone else in the division might figure out how to coach/use the guy Jay #### on in multiple press conferences last year.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
And our strongest, deepest, and most experienced group (the front 7) has arguably been the most disappointing. Weird season.
Hang 10
Footballguy
If any of that is true, isn't that a total indictment on your coaching staff? Look out if Griffin teams up with a competent coach!
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Yep. Im ready for Gruden to be fired and Griffin start the rest of the year on a renegotiated contract.
Is the Art Briles talk totally dead?
Who knows what's going to happen. If we beat Tampa, we may be back on Code Yellow for a while.
Hang 10
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
Perry Riley graded out as the league's worst LB this week.
Josh LeRibeus graded out as the league's worst center.
Kirk Cousins graded out as not only the league's worst QB but as its lowest player, period.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/10/20/kirk-cousins-was-the-nfls-worst-player-last-week-according-to-pro-football-focus/
Compare that with what you hear from Gruden and from local sports announcers, and it'll show you how far away we've drifted from real NFL football in Washington.
And yes, I agree that those gradings are subject to showing some odd things. But let's look at the details in this case. Riley gave up 4 completions on 4 attempts. Cousins threw 2 INT's and averaged 4.6 yards per attempt. LeRibeus gave up a QB hit and three hurries and was beaten often on run plays.
Josh LeRibeus graded out as the league's worst center.
Kirk Cousins graded out as not only the league's worst QB but as its lowest player, period.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/10/20/kirk-cousins-was-the-nfls-worst-player-last-week-according-to-pro-football-focus/
Compare that with what you hear from Gruden and from local sports announcers, and it'll show you how far away we've drifted from real NFL football in Washington.
And yes, I agree that those gradings are subject to showing some odd things. But let's look at the details in this case. Riley gave up 4 completions on 4 attempts. Cousins threw 2 INT's and averaged 4.6 yards per attempt. LeRibeus gave up a QB hit and three hurries and was beaten often on run plays.
dcgangstas
Footballguy
Yeah, it will be Code Yellow until the Patriots run up a fifty spot on the Skins in Foxboro after the bye.MikeApf said:Is the Art Briles talk totally dead?Marvelous said:
Who knows what's going to happen. If we beat Tampa, we may be back on Code Yellow for a while.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
It's written by Cian Fahey of FBGs in his side gig. Good breakdown of Cousins' game this week -- not just the INTs, but his other poor throws and decisions too.
Sebowski
Footballguy
MattFancy
Footballguy
They do have some good stuff from time to time. This is one of their better ones. Actual film breakdowns are included.
SeanTaylor21
Footballguy
I know I'm only making a mockery of myself and my team by laughing at this but it's too daggone funny.fatness said:
Over the years Perry seems to be the D'Qwell Jackson type sometimes where he's so bad in real life but then you look at the box score and mistakenly think he's not that bad. LeRibs is bad. Cousins is so bad that I often find myself wishing I could somehow not care for a while. Oh and his facemask drives me nuts too but it fits because I feel like only stiffs wear that facemask (been true this year for Peyton and Stafford).
I only heard a little of Cooley's film breakdown. He said Cousins was bad. He counted 9 throws that he just flat out missed. That is in addition to plays where he did not throw to the right guy.fatness said:
He also mentioned Riley looked lost out there, often going in the wrong direction.
So the Redskins lost to a good Jets team and now they are in Code Red. If they beat Tampa, everyone one will feel good. Maybe they start talking playoffs again. Then they get blown out by the Patriots and we will be talking about who needs to be benched/fired again.Yeah, it will be Code Yellow until the Patriots run up a fifty spot on the Skins in Foxboro after the bye.MikeApf said:Is the Art Briles talk totally dead?Marvelous said:
Who knows what's going to happen. If we beat Tampa, we may be back on Code Yellow for a while.
On a side note: I watched a lot of the Giants/Eagles game. Both teams looked pretty bad. The Philly defense looked good. But for the most part, it looked really bad and sloppy.
MattFancy
Footballguy
We seriously have some of the dumbest local media memebers in all of sports. This is a snippet of Sheehan defending why Cousins is treated differently than Griffin and deserves to keep playing: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/10/21/espn-980-host-blasts-racial-aspect-of-kirk-cousins-coverage-as-disgusting-hate-mongering/
“Now, as to the reasons why Cousins is — yes, is — being treated differently by everyone in this town and it’s not football related, let’s just go to the personal feelings that people have about Griffin and Cousins. Cousins hasn’t made any of the following comments to my knowledge, comments like ‘I know I’m the best quarterback on this team,’ ‘I feel like I’m the best quarterback in the league.’ Back in 2013: ‘He [Mike Shanahan] better live up to his promise and play me if I’m ready.’ How about before 2014, ‘Now we get to do what we want to do #TheMovement.’
“He hasn’t come out, to my knowledge, with seasonal marketing slogans. Maybe he will. He just hasn’t done it yet. Slogans like ‘All in for week one,’ ‘Talk small play big,’ ‘Know your why,’ ‘The grind and find.’ To date, he hasn’t had his family criticizing the organization over the playbook. To date — and this could change — he has not walked into the coach’s office with demands that 19 plays be stricken from the playbook. As of today, he has not yet produced a documentary entitled ‘The Will to Win.’"
“We can talk about all these things as a big deal or a small deal, and that’s totally open for debate, but it’s hard to debate that it doesn’t influence how you feel about someone, especially if that someone doesn’t back it up on the field with results. And therein lies the biggest difference in the coverage of Cousins vs. Griffin, which we both admit is different, but not based on race. If you’re ‘just asking the question’ about race, yes, there’s a football difference, but more than that, Griffin’s career emphasis on building a brand became off-putting to many when he didn’t perform on the field.
“And I promise you, or at least from my point of view, if Kirk plays well enough the rest of this season to get the starting job in 2016, and then during the offseason leading up to next year he produces a one-hour documentary called ‘The Comeback Kid,’ we as a fan base and as a media group will eviscerate him if he doesn’t then go out and back it up on the field. He’ll be treated no differently. If he creates the perception, if not reality, that he’s more interested in building his own personal brand than getting better, then he’s going to be run out of this town just as quickly as any non-white quarterback would. That’s a fact.
“It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with football reasons, and it has to do with personality, and the way one quarterback built up his brand. There was a polarization of the way we felt, at least this is my sense, my point of view, that rubbed people the wrong way. You’re more interested in a personal branding slogan rather than performing. If he had performed on the field, none of this would have mattered.”
So Cousins should keep playing because he doesn't say he's the best QB on the team or because he doesn't have marketing slogans? That's what we're resorting to now to defend this guy? "Well at least he doesn't think he's good" is now a defense lol. This is so pathetic.
Where has Cousins backed up anything with his play? Is averaging 1.7 INTs per game backing up your play? What about 3 wins as a starer in your career? Seriously, what do the supporters of him see in him that EVERYONE else is missing?
“Now, as to the reasons why Cousins is — yes, is — being treated differently by everyone in this town and it’s not football related, let’s just go to the personal feelings that people have about Griffin and Cousins. Cousins hasn’t made any of the following comments to my knowledge, comments like ‘I know I’m the best quarterback on this team,’ ‘I feel like I’m the best quarterback in the league.’ Back in 2013: ‘He [Mike Shanahan] better live up to his promise and play me if I’m ready.’ How about before 2014, ‘Now we get to do what we want to do #TheMovement.’
“He hasn’t come out, to my knowledge, with seasonal marketing slogans. Maybe he will. He just hasn’t done it yet. Slogans like ‘All in for week one,’ ‘Talk small play big,’ ‘Know your why,’ ‘The grind and find.’ To date, he hasn’t had his family criticizing the organization over the playbook. To date — and this could change — he has not walked into the coach’s office with demands that 19 plays be stricken from the playbook. As of today, he has not yet produced a documentary entitled ‘The Will to Win.’"
“We can talk about all these things as a big deal or a small deal, and that’s totally open for debate, but it’s hard to debate that it doesn’t influence how you feel about someone, especially if that someone doesn’t back it up on the field with results. And therein lies the biggest difference in the coverage of Cousins vs. Griffin, which we both admit is different, but not based on race. If you’re ‘just asking the question’ about race, yes, there’s a football difference, but more than that, Griffin’s career emphasis on building a brand became off-putting to many when he didn’t perform on the field.
“And I promise you, or at least from my point of view, if Kirk plays well enough the rest of this season to get the starting job in 2016, and then during the offseason leading up to next year he produces a one-hour documentary called ‘The Comeback Kid,’ we as a fan base and as a media group will eviscerate him if he doesn’t then go out and back it up on the field. He’ll be treated no differently. If he creates the perception, if not reality, that he’s more interested in building his own personal brand than getting better, then he’s going to be run out of this town just as quickly as any non-white quarterback would. That’s a fact.
“It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with football reasons, and it has to do with personality, and the way one quarterback built up his brand. There was a polarization of the way we felt, at least this is my sense, my point of view, that rubbed people the wrong way. You’re more interested in a personal branding slogan rather than performing. If he had performed on the field, none of this would have mattered.”
So Cousins should keep playing because he doesn't say he's the best QB on the team or because he doesn't have marketing slogans? That's what we're resorting to now to defend this guy? "Well at least he doesn't think he's good" is now a defense lol. This is so pathetic.
Where has Cousins backed up anything with his play? Is averaging 1.7 INTs per game backing up your play? What about 3 wins as a starer in your career? Seriously, what do the supporters of him see in him that EVERYONE else is missing?
MattFancy
Footballguy
Since Sheehan says we should dismiss 2012 Robert, let's see how 2013-2014 Robert stacks up against Kirk. I'll even included Kirk's 2012 season stats
Griffin:
5-15 record as a starter
421/670, 62.8, 4897, 20:18, 7.3ypa, 71 sacks
Cousins:
4-11 record as a starter
391/635, 61.6, 4450, 24:27, 7.0ypa, 23 sacks
So outside of the sacks, what exactly has Cousins done better than Griffin?
Griffin:
5-15 record as a starter
421/670, 62.8, 4897, 20:18, 7.3ypa, 71 sacks
Cousins:
4-11 record as a starter
391/635, 61.6, 4450, 24:27, 7.0ypa, 23 sacks
So outside of the sacks, what exactly has Cousins done better than Griffin?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
And this doesn't include rushing totals, which I'll go out on a limb and say favor Griffin.
dgreen
Footballguy
I remember a Dan Daly tweet several weeks ago that was something like: Gruden is basically benching Griffin for being Cousins.
And to Tobias' comment, it's stupid that Cousins doesn't run more. He's a good athlete with some wheels. Cooley mentioned it when discussing the Revis INT. He said the presnap read should have told Cousins to only work the right side. He said he had two throws he probably should have tried, but then pointed out that his alternative (if Cousins determined he didn't want to try any of those throws) - his ONLY out - should have been to run. He should have known to not even try to go back to the left. He should have looked right and then taken off if he didn't like what he saw.
Cousins has 5 rush attempts this season. That's stupid. It's stupid that Gruden doesn't add some read option calls and it's stupid that Cousins seems to refuse to ever abandon the pocket.
MattFancy
Footballguy
It's probably because all Cousins has heard all offseason/season has been Griffin's lack of ability in the pocket and his supposed ability in the pocket. That and the fact that when Cousins tries to extend plays, it usually doesn't go well.
fatness
Footballguy
Yeah, I heard that too. He also gave the offensive line a virtual pass again. "Those guys played their asses off" was his assessment, which just continues his tradition of giving offensive linemen much better grades than would anyone else. His assessment of what's wrong with the run game always gets back to Alfred Morris missing this, Alfred Morris missing that. I really don't think he understands the run game very well at all. I'd rather Portis started watching film and evaluating the run game, RB's and O-line. Cooley is just bad at it. It's never the fault of the O-line to him.
He did say Trent Murphy has been terrible and that Kerrigan has been missing for much of the year, and that they both get trapped inside far too often.
Incidentally there's a pretty good article on the bad run defense here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2015/10/20/a-closer-look-there-were-warning-signs-that-the-jets-could-exploit-the-redskins-poor-run-defense/
fatness
Footballguy
I have heard more local Redskin radio guys yelling this year than in any other year, by far. I've heard Sheehan yelling repeatedly, I've heard Galdi yelling, I've heard Cooley yelling repeatedly and calling people morons, I've heard Jason Reid yelling. And every one of them was yelling about something connected with their defending Cousins.
The best, the absolute best, was Cooley yesterday after getting tons of online criticism for being such a Cousins fan: "He Is Not My Boyfriend!"
He should just come out and admit it. Cloris Leachman did.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I don't think I've heard so many people defend a player so much and so often. What am I missing on Cousins? He's a poor man's Alex Smith. He's a game manager that isn't accurate and turns the ball over. Yet so many people are convinced we can win with him. Why? Because Mike Shanahan said he could be a top 10 QB? Because he isn't Griffin? What is it that other people see??
The best part for me was when he opened saying something like "Kurt was great. He gets an A, this was on everyone else."
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Shutout
Footballguy
It's just that. So much disappointment/frustration/aggravation with RG III that Chad Pennington could be the next man up and he is automatically 10X more liked/defended.
I, myself, refrain from getting down on Cousins just because it is SO refreshing to see this team be so much more competitive than I thought they had any chance at being this year. If I'm not mistaken, I think they actually lead the NFL in time of possession. Can you imagine?
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