Insein
Footballguy
And I'm saying those words and that sentiment were never even indirectly implied.
"We want you here Sam, you're our guy. We'd like you to be our franchise guy. Here's a one year deal to show our commitment."
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*Official 2016 Philadelphia Eagles* - The year of Change (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Deamon
- Start date
"We want you here Sam, you're our guy. We'd like you to be our franchise guy. Here's a one year deal to show our commitment."
Didn't commit contractually, but likely gave him his verbal commitment to him. Which like you say, might have just been smart chess playing and keeping his options open by Howie. No one is arguing the points you're countering.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Not sure if you guys heard Sal Pal, but basically this was all driven by Sam Bradford. Right after they made the trade, the power trio had a meeting with Sam - he got pissed off and walked out and said "he wasn't coming back." He then told Condon and ol Tom was stuck with the situation. Sam - you are cooked buddy.
Insein
Footballguy
Well that's his problem. I hope he shows up this year, wins us 7+ games and keeps Carson from taking too much damage year 1. Then he can salvage his own career somewhere else. I'll never have to worry about Sam again.
Ash
Footballguy
This does makes sense. Seems like Condon would be smarter than how this has turned out.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Someone needs to put duct tape over Tom Condon's mouth. Bradford's hole just gets deeper and deeper.
"We thought we had a chance to go to a really good football team and be there for a long time"
JFC
"We thought we had a chance to go to a really good football team and be there for a long time"
JFC
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
you hate a stranger over not coming to lift weights for a week in May. I'd hate to see how you treat your own family or friends who do something that pisses you off.
Insein
Footballguy
Not seeing where you're getting the hate from. Sam basically torpedoed his career with this stunt and his agent's continued comments. Is any one committing "long term" to a starter that's this insecure? He may have to take a backup job next year. I'm the realistic one in this.
Not sure why you love a stranger that has accomplished so little and still doesn't seem to get that maybe it's him. You must be Jesus the way you're so accepting of all the unwanted vagabonds.
Your post was full of hatred and you try n call him out for that. Oh I love how extremely passionate Eagles fans are and it's always like they're completely unaware too, it is so entertaining.Insein said:
You definitely. Steady probably. You think everyone is judged by how they play in Philly. Oh and that they had a bad team or a bad group is never a reason. And the coach, he may be "the worst ever" but all players that play for him should rock because they're 'your players.'
How has this not been an episode of It's Always Sunny?
If DeMarco were to lead the NFL in rushing again this year, you would totally still say he's terrible.
You guys are the reason people think Herm Edwards was a good CB even though he never was listed on any "all star" team. Miracle in the Meadowlands Baby!
Sam was behind a great line playing in a great offense throwing to great WRs right? How dare him speak to the brass privately. Players are supposed to love being replaced. The great Joe Montana never got upset when Steve Young...oh wait. Well Phil Simms was happy about Hostetler...no umm wait didn't some QB give their replacement candy and flowers?
Sam had a sweet college career, was an excellent prospect, donates tons, has that classic aww shucks southern attitude and...yeah he'll be remembered for the time he privately went to Eagles brass and tried to leave your team. So awesome, don't ever change
Insein
Footballguy
Like many posters on message boards, reading comprehension is an issue.
Please point out the hatred. Because you'll know when my post is full of hatred. See any post about Alex Henery.
He won't be remembered for the time he privately went to Eagles brass and asked for a trade. He will be remembered for the time he had his agent go to the media and say he wants a long term deal somewhere despite being a pending free agent less than 2 months ago. He decided it was safer to take an $18m, 1 year deal than try to find that long term team then and now he thought it better to go public ruining his trade value than working with Howie behind the scenes.
When JoeTheisman and Ron Jaworski, 2 of his biggest advocates for his talent, are saying "WTF are you doing" then it's not just a private issue the other teams will forget next time a contract comes up. Ex players are confused too. Usually a player will side with a player 100% when it comes to their contract. Not a single one came to his defense.
However, fans here will quickly forget Sam. You put too much stock in that our team or die nonsense. People will boo him and then it will be boring because we know he'll be gone. Usually people boo when they are frustrated that a guy stinks but he's still here for the foreseeable future. People will boo then they won't care. If Sam starts throwing TDs and winning, hey they might even cheer.
Ultimately it doesn't matter. We know he's gone, the team knows he's gone and I think Sam finally realized he'll be gone. Everything that has transpired has been because of Sam Bradford. So hopefully Sam realizes he needs to play really well to get another team to ignore all this drama and offer him a starters job next off season.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Game over. Unless someone wants to play make believe.
Go back and read his post with a smile and see if its still what you think it was. You chose to read it with hate that's why you feel this way. Judging by this approach it sheds some light on why you think Sam is being "attacked"....
How did he torpedo his career? You said his best option for his career is to come in here and play well and sign elsewhere next season. Has this one week holdout changed any of that to such a huge degree that it has 'torpedoed' his career? Yes he may have to take a backup job next year (calling him an "average backup" is clearly hyperbole despite you claiming to be impartial), but he would have taken that back up position next year regardless of this one week break from the team... no?Insein said:
This doesn't jive well with the arguments of your comrades who claim he's scared of competition or that he should be able to beat out 'some div 2 kid' and become our starter and that he has a realistic shot at that.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
It's not an either or scenario. These are both one in the same. He still can but judging by his actions he's already given up and moved on.
Oh give me a break, you don't believe that. He still can win the starting job long term in Philly? Even Insein knows that isn't remotely true and it has NOTHING to do with a one week holdout.
Reverse what you said.... Judging by Howie's actions, they have already given up on Sam and moved on too.
Insein
Footballguy
Not if he kept his mouth shut. Even if he just stopped talking when he came in he could still salvage it. It seems like he still has his agent talking for him though. So I don't know if he is totally getting it. If he he keeps making these dumb comments, he will have torpedoed his own career. If he can just suck it up even at this point (and of course play good), maybe someone will hire him next year ignoring all that took place.
So you really think that his play on the field doesn't have full bearing on a team signing him? That this extremely small 'temper tantrum" will cost him a job next year because people don't like his attitude? Give me a break, you're reaching.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Say you're a team and you need a QB. Sam has another average year. Decent stats, team goes 7-9, 8-8, some his fault, some the new coach new personnel, etc. His agent comes to you seeking a starting job and wants to the going rate. Are you saying you're not going to use this temper tantrum as leverage to haggle down the price. "Well what assurances do I have that Sam will be happy here? We are interested but we don't know about long term. Will that be an issue for him? We'd hate to sign him to a 2-3 year deal and then see an opportunity to get a young QB in here only to be scared if Sam will holdout."
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That wasn't what he said. He didn't become "more injury prone" because of a week away from the team. Or do you think he did? His argument was that his holdout has torpedoed his career. Throwing irrelevant material in as ammo is a poor way to debate something. His success as an nfl qb has nothing to do with it.
What does his contract have to do with it? You could be very well right in your above analysis.
So what you really meant to say was "this week holdout could drop how much money he makes next year". You're changing your argument again.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I took what he said as icing on the cake and not a singular case that torpedoed his career. Straw that broke the camels back if you will.
So one minute he's a guy that we want as our starter this year, that (like you've admitted previously) is about an average starting QB in the league. And then has a week long hold out and suddenly that's the straw that drops him to an average backup qb? The bias in your guys' arguments is astonishing given your great history in here. Insein has always disliked the guy, and you yourself claimed that this hold out made you dislike him. Hard to think that those aren't factoring into your thoughts here.
All I'm saying is It's extremely inconsistent to say he has a shot at winning a starting job elsewhere, but then bringing up how he's always sucked, and then saying that some little hold out is going to affect his career drastically... and then saying that this will all blow over soon and be forgotten.
Insein
Footballguy
I'm saying that the "potential starter" angle would have been easier to sell if it didn't come with this extra baggage now. And if Sam keeps having his agent talk, it only makes more teams say it's not worth it.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
good lord, this thread has like 50 "Niagara Falls" memes.
I do like that Bri called Steadymoobin (I assume that's what he meant) an Eagles' fan, though.
I do like that Bri called Steadymoobin (I assume that's what he meant) an Eagles' fan, though.
I used to think attitude mattered a lot more then I do now. Holdouts happen all the time, players disagree with their coaches all the time, etc. I think Chip is in the minority in the league of really taking that into factor too much. If Sam plays good this year, I think the week long hold out will be very very minor in terms of a team deciding if they want him or not. You're probably right that they'll use it against him in terms of a slightly smaller contract, but Sam's "baggage" compared to most players in the league is still relatively small I'd say. If guys like Johnny, RG3, Vick, etc get 2nd/3rd/4th chances, then a small "i want to be traded" statement is going to have very little bearing on what happens to him moving forward.
dhockster
Footballguy
Um, Joe and Phil won Super Bowls. Sam has won....a super bowl? No. a playoff game? No. Been on a team with a winning record? No.
I am not saying Sam should be happy about the Eagles drafting his replacement, but based on his past record as a QB in the NFL, he should at least understand it.
Sam? Or his agent? Condon has done an awful lot of talking lately.
His agent is absolutely supposed to get his client the best opportunity and most money he can. Everyone will also forget it too. Whether it's Steinberg or Rosenhaus or Condon, there's stories out there of them saying this N that years ago but all anyone remembers is how much their client received.
You're still stuck on what he did with the Eagles will have torpedoed his career. This insinuates a promising career(hasn't since rookie) or maybe an even keel type production that just plummets. He hasn't been 30% of what he was supposed to be when he got drafted. I love Sam as a prospect, hate that he had to go through a zillion systems with even more bad WRs and "never" gets a decent corps to play with but his career is pretty flat. It's low already. It can't be torpedoed.
It's a common theme that he's an injury risk but how many times have you read that his lines stunk or his WRs stunk at getting open quick enough? No one cares, few mention it, it's just Sam wrecked his knee.
He has much to blame for his own career but there's a percent that is just going from bad situation to bad situation. He still has a shot at a career since QBs uniquely play til they're 35-40. He still throws a pretty pass and has a very nice arm. Back in college and even his rookie year, he had this placement that was Warner and Montana like. Ridiculous ability to throw it 15 yards across the field and somehow put it exactly where only the WR can get it. Throw it almost too far in front of the WR but soft like a hoops point guard and...look at that, the WR ran right into the pass and is off to the races. I have rarely seen this ability since. I think it has to do with confidence and comfort with the WRs. I don't know if he'll get that back, ever. IMO that'll be the difference between him being some journeyman QB and him becoming great. Last year there were Philly folks at camp mentioning this throw or that throw. He must still have something to catch everyone's eye. I have rarely seen it in a game.
Steve Young forced everything and in many similar ways to Sam (and tons of other young QBs) didn't let the game come to him. He never looked comfy in Tampa and completed like 50% of his passes. 6? 8? years later, he's a fine tuned machine for the 49ers. He could place his throws and had wonderful timing with his WRs completing nearly 70%. How did Interceptaverde only throw 8 INTs one year with NYJ? How is Fitz suddenly a nice QB for NYJ?
Sam needed Kelly, Kelly needed Sam too. That not a college offense was a nice fit for him. I think in the fourth Q of games, he was finally getting comfy again but just some. Eagles fans are all "oh sure when we're down 6000 points, then you can throw it well" and I get that.
Sam is an elite talent, a prototype. His pro day is still regarded as arguably the best ever. That talent gets him third and fourth chances and all sorts of breaks that some try hard 3rd stringer never gets. I wouldn't have guessed the Eagles had a chance to get a top QB in the draft. I would have guessed they sign someone and we debate results versus talent.
Wentz means the end of Sam's time in Philly. Sam knows it. He was once that same super talented prospect. Wentz is about to get those third and fourth chances Sam got. There's no law that a player has to take it on the chin. What he's done is really very common. There's 200 some odd free agents every year and a dozen or so holdout trade me types. I prefer the finish out your contract stance-you signed it, honor your commitment but when the writing is on the wall, I don't fault guys for wanting to leave.
Some Eagles fans have that honor your commitment mindset and that's fair. Others though have this "take it on the chin because you frustrated me last year "mindset and I don't think that's reasonable.
**********
To spin this for a sec. Do you think Alfred Morris is going to have a promising or decent career in Dallas? Did you think it was possible since he was going to run behind that line? Even without knowing what was said in meetings when he was negotiating and trying to find a new team...don't you feel for the guy that two months later is a backup with little hope? he could have signed anywhere. They could have drafted Bosa or Tunsil or anyone. I will absolutely expect him to go to management to "try again" to be a free agent and find a new team in 2017. The Cowboys got their guy, it's very clear. The cowboys don't have to let him out of his contract and can compel him to honor it or he's fined. Still, I'm not going to fault the guy for asking in March of 2017- geesh I'd be shocked if he didn't.
Start with an insult and ask where the hatred is, really?
You didn't call him insecure, a vagabond, and compare him to Jesus?
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Bri, This isn't a guy who out performed his contract. This is a guy who signed a new deal, one that some thought overpaid him for what he's done, and less than 50 days later wanted out. For a player of his caliber this is unheard of...that's why this will stick around with Eagles fans
Insein
Footballguy
And it is also because of that unusual nature of the situation that it sticks with so many OUTSIDE of Philly as well. This isn't some guy in the middle of a contract outperforming his deal. This isn't even the proven Vet asking for some apology money. This is a guy who just signed a 1 year deal for a lot of money and less than 2 months later is grabbing his ball and going home because they brought in someone new.
That's why you see so many players against him. They all face someone taking their job. The difference is they don't all get $18m to be the temporary guy.
Enough Sam Bradford. Talked more about this guy in the last year than I ever wanted to. I hope they trade him in the summer if we can get value. That way I personally never have to talk about Him again.
I understand much but your last sentence. Getting the last big rookie deal, many say he's been overpaid since day one.
QBs get paid handsomely and have for a long time. What'd Sam get 11? 12 mil? As Fitz holds out for like 14 and Osweiler got 72 mil for a half season of work, I'm not sure it's outrageous. If you take away the market, it totally is but relative to his peers. I disagree. I disagree pretty strongly even.
I mean Chase has never been a starter and didn't he get 12 mil? 6+6?
Brees makes 30 mil. Couldn't you roll with "less than half of what Brees makes?" Eli and Big Ben make double or 24 mil. Is that wrong?
What has Matt Ryan done to command 23 mil? Kaep isn't even the starter and makes 16 mil.
If you take away the market and say we're going to pay Sam 12 mil per for what he's done in his career, then I'm right there with ya. That's exorbitant.
Since Wentz has never played in the NFL, Chase has never been the starter, couldn't we say they overpaid everyone? Sam hasn't accomplished much so all three are paid for potential too.
What did the Eagles spend on QBs? 30 mil? They created this problem. This is all their baby. Most teams have a starter making a ton, backup making average amount and a rook project type getting paid a little. Some Eagles fans need to choke that down. To me, it seems they had some discussion we must have a very good QB to be successful and went out and got three starters, determined to find that guy. I love the initiative.
Daniel MAY perform well and if it's Wentz' team next year then the Eagles may let Chase and Sam walk and look very different in 2017. They took on a weird predicament going with three and asking them to compete. My Q, that we may never know the answer to, is when they signed Sam did he even know it was a competition of this magnitude? The bitterness from his agent makes me really guess he had no idea.
I don't fault the Eagles. There should be competition at every position and that should yield the best players, but just the same who has Phillip Rivers, Brees, and Brady's competition been the last ten years?
It seems clear to me there isn't an understanding. That's on Howie and Doug. If they communicated with Sam what their plans were this whole time, he wouldn't be bitter. Upset? annoyed? maybe but not bitter. Maybe turning over from Reid, maybe some dopey ego "we don't report to Sam" maybe...anything but there should have been some understanding between everyone.
He's there now so I hope they all sat down and cleared the air. If they did, they could be back on track to what I envision their plan was-have three compete and wind up with a stud.
A QB can't be discarded as a soldier taking orders or some employee just do what the boss says. He's gotta be that extension of the coach on the field. Guys look to the QB and he leads and...there's so much more to it than other positions. QB controversies in camp are often ugly but there's been good ones, there's been healthy competition. That is an awful tall order for a rookie coach to deal with but I like Pederson so I'm hopeful. Good luck to him managing pride and egos as much as coaching his QBs this summer.
massraider
Footballguy
Two big points here:
1) When the team signed Sam, they didn't know if they were going to make this deal, so they could not have communicated those plans. But that doesn't matter because:
2) The Eagles should not be expected to have to communicate any long term plans with this guy.
Sam Bradford is a QB on a short term deal, getting paid very well for what he has done. This isn't Brett Favre, with Aaron Rodgers getting drafted. Sam didn't have a long term contract, he doesn't need to be privy to long term deals. It doesn't matter if he's the QB or the long snapper, Sam is just a cog in this machine.
There are starting quarterbacks, and there are franchise quarterbacks. On one end is Ryan Fitzpatrick. On the other end is Tom Brady. One end gets to be the primadonna if he feels like it, and have dinner with the owner, and be in the loop on QB coach hires. On the other end, is a guy hoping the paychecks keep coming. Which end of the spectrum do you think Sam is closer to?
this is a wonderfully naive thought. Are you the browns GM? You clearly missed (within your own post) that successful teams do communicate with the QB. He's the team leader and an extension of the coach on the field. You understate it's importance so much and yet root for Carr whom turned your team around. It's illogical
GoBirds
Footballguy
This.
Can you put an update in the thread title when it isn't flooded with page after page about Bradford's feeling.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Doug Pederson quotes:
February 4: "So the immediate fix is to find the top available free agent. I think in our situation, you may not have to go that route. Therefore, the draft, there are some good quarterbacks in this draft. I'd love to be able to pick one up, develop him and eventually he becomes your guy over time. Several ways to skin a cat, but I think in our situation I think we've got a quarterback that's on our roster right now, if he's our guy, that we can win with."
February 23: “That’s the one thing coach said,” Pederson told CSN’s and 94WIP’s Reuben Frank. “‘Listen, make sure your quarterback is right, No. 1. Get pass rushers on defense and tackles on offense and get you a couple corners, and then everybody else you just kind of fill in.’ That’s the truth. To me, that’s the formula. My personal feeling? Unless you need a guy, shelve him for a year,” Pederson told Frank. “Shelve him for a year. And let him get in your system and let him grow if you’ve got a guy in place already that he can kind of learn from.”
February 24: "I think this is a talented group [of QB prospects]," Pederson said. "I think it’s a group that is -- we all know what they can do on a football field, and that goes without saying. I think for a lot of us, and for most of the teams here that are looking for quarterbacks and obviously this one, it’s how can they come into your organization.
"How can they command a huddle? Can they look at 10 other guys in the huddle? And can one of these guys come into Philadelphia and get Jason Peters to believe in what they’re selling? I want to see that. I want to be able to look into their eyes and say, ‘That’s a guy I can hang my hat on.’” Roseman quote that same day: “One of the benefits we have as a front office is having Doug who played the position, having [OC] Frank [Reich] who played the position, having Flip [QB coach John DeFilippo] who played the position, and having their input into the evaluation process as well and how they seen how them fitting their system because they have a criteria of what they’re looking for as well.”
March 1: Sam Bradford re-signs with Philly
Did Bradford or his agent really paying attention to what Philly was trying to do? They were blatantly obvious in their plan. I could probably pull quote after quote from the time Pederson was hired to the time Bradford signed. He knew they were going to draft a QB. Anyone paying attention knew. They are following the Andy Reid 1999 plan to a T.
We were asked to discontinue this conversation so you could get back to Eagles talk-the other positions, camp etc
Polish Hammer
made of glass
I think people wanted the ad hominem bickering to stop. Too many people were making wild guesses to motivation and assuming them to be fact. This post you had quoted lays things out pretty clearly what the intentions of the Eagles coaching/GM staff felt from early on. Facts are good to read, back and forth BS not so much.Bri said:
