Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
Only a fool couldn't see that (once) Pederson (was brought in he) was gonna draft a QB to groom.....eff Bradford.
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*Official 2016 Philadelphia Eagles* - The year of Change (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Deamon
- Start date
Deamon
Footballguy
You are continuing to ignore the fact that SOMETHING really REALLY pissed Sam and his agent off about the trade up. I'm going to think there's more to it then 'he's lazy, he's scared, he is entitled, he doesn't deserve it, he is a bust, etc, etc". He's never shown to have a bad attitude before, so why now? I know a lot of fans think they have figured everything out, and know exactly what's going on, and are very quick to judge and paint a picture of a guy when we likely have less then half the facts of what TRULY happened.
I get it... Philly fans like drama, they like to get mad at people, they like to think they have the whole team figured out and what should/shouldn't have been done all the time. It's easier to go on a rant and find quotes that support it then have an open mind about something, and the fact that some fans are so quick to jump and call this an open and shut case by painting one person to be the villain and one to be the star, is astonishing. The guy held out of VOLUNTARY workouts for a fu**ing WEEK! WIth all the character issues in this league, arrests and drug use at an increasingly high level, it's insane to me that a guy that skips lifting some weights in the gym when many other players are absent, suddenly "should never be forgiven", "will be booed by his home fans", "has ruined his career", etc etc. This is angry mob, extreme overreaction, even by Philly fan standards.
Deamon
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
And I'm going to continue to think Marcus Smith was Chip Kelly's pick and not Howie's. And that Nick Foles would have been better in his offense than Bradford last year.
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Quotes like this are when I think he's finally going to get it but he doesn't. He is locked in with this and it doesn't matter what happens. Sam in his eyes can do no wrong and is the victim. It's best to not even mention his name because once you do it's an onslaught of make believeAnd I'm going to continue to think Marcus Smith was Chip Kelly's pick and not Howie's. And that Nick Foles would have been better in his offense than Bradford last year.
Deamon
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
I think you're seeing it the exact opposite. Yes Sam can do wrong.... if he held out as long as his agent did then he would be doing wrong. I've said all along I didn't LOVE the way he handled it but that it is getting EXTREMELY blown out of proportion by fans. Can you flip it around and say the same? Do you think Sam in the eyes of many Philly fans can do RIGHT and not be the enemy? This is the pot calling the kettle black if I've ever seen it before. Your decision about Sam is made up because of a week long 'holdout' and even if he has a good season you'll have the safety net of "See I was right, he should have just came in and played look how much he raised his stock" to fall back on. And if he sucks, it will be "see, he had no right to ask for a trade".
Deamon
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
I don't know why we just can't agree that Sam was mis-lead by Howie (Which was just Howie being smart and using leverage for him to sign here... nothing wrong with that really), but that when the landscape changed, the best situation for Sam would be to be elsewhere. Him and/or his agent likely overplayed their hand and realized quickly they had no leverage to force a trade and back pedalled (see, I'm agreeing with you). But that at the end of the day, missing a few voluntary workouts is not at all the end of the world and not near the career character issues that so many more players have. Always been a good teammate, but was rubbed the wrong way by something that we may never know but that many will love to assume and use as ammo.
Either way, he's not our future and I couldn't be more excited for Wentz. I just hope that fans can actually cheer for their starting QB and not have a safety net to fall back on where no matter what happens, they will claim that they were right. Is there any situation Sam can do now that you will give him credit for or have you made up your mind about him without being open minded at all? The fact that people are so angry about him acting in a way you didn't like, but may have NO bearing on our team's success at all is crazy.
But hey, anything to support your rhetoric.
Either way, he's not our future and I couldn't be more excited for Wentz. I just hope that fans can actually cheer for their starting QB and not have a safety net to fall back on where no matter what happens, they will claim that they were right. Is there any situation Sam can do now that you will give him credit for or have you made up your mind about him without being open minded at all? The fact that people are so angry about him acting in a way you didn't like, but may have NO bearing on our team's success at all is crazy.
But hey, anything to support your rhetoric.
Riversco
Footballguy
This is your focus Eagles fans. Right here:
http://www.csnphilly.com/sites/csnphilly/files/ap-carson-wentz-eagles.jpg
http://www.inforum.com/sites/default/files/styles/16x9_620/public/field/image/WENTZP14.JPG?itok=Xw6Kvpwj
http://www.readingeagle.com/storyimage/RE/20160513/AP/305139134/AR/0/AR-305139134.jpg&q=80&MaxW=550&MaxH=400&RCRadius=5
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/carson-wentz-of-the-philadelphia-eagles-participates-in-rookie-camp-picture-id531273990
http://www.inforum.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/field/image/WENTZ_11.JPG?itok=BbKml2xj
http://www.csnphilly.com/sites/csnphilly/files/ap-carson-wentz-eagles.jpg
http://www.inforum.com/sites/default/files/styles/16x9_620/public/field/image/WENTZP14.JPG?itok=Xw6Kvpwj
http://www.readingeagle.com/storyimage/RE/20160513/AP/305139134/AR/0/AR-305139134.jpg&q=80&MaxW=550&MaxH=400&RCRadius=5
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/carson-wentz-of-the-philadelphia-eagles-participates-in-rookie-camp-picture-id531273990
http://www.inforum.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/field/image/WENTZ_11.JPG?itok=BbKml2xj
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Insein
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
you have quite the way of selecting only certain parts or sentences.
You also are saying "because he wasn't" as if you know exactly what was said and that you're the expert here. Do you know that for sure?
Again, I said he was "mislead", not that what howie did was wrong. "Mislead" could be something as simple as Howie saying "we want you here, we think you can be our guy". I'm assuming SOMETHING was said along those lines or he wouldn't be this upset. Or maybe there was more to it, but I don't know, and surely you don't know exactly what was said or hinted. Either way, Sam signed that contract with the thought that they wouldn't trade away so much to move up all the way to #2 to draft his replacement. Was that his fault for not being as much as an expert as you are on what his contract meant? Sure. EIther way, Howie played his hand very well as he usually does, convinced Sam he could be the starter there long term, did something that prevented that from happening, and that's that. Not once have I blamed Howie for that. But hey, you're the expert here.
Insein
Footballguy
Yep. Same as Nick Foles would have won us a division last year. I saw what Nick did on the field for Stl and yet I choose to ignore the obvious and say that we would have been 10-6 or 11-5 with Nick and won a playoff game.
Same leap you're taking by assuming there was any misleading despite every evidence to the contrary sitting right there.
Deamon
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
So I guess I'll see you in a year when you'll admit Bradford isn't that good and was not mislead in any way.
Deamon
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
At what? You're the only one not seeing the obvious here. As stubborn as I was on Foles is how you are on Bradford right now.
Deamon
Footballguy
How am I "the only one". Others have expressed similar thoughts. Also, what does "bradford sucks" have to do with any of this? We weren't ONCE debating his talent but you brought that into this for some reason? I'm sure you'll justify that too.
I don't think it's at all stubborn for me to say that I think there could be more going on then you seem to think you have 100 percent figured out with very little of the facts. I don't see how it's stubborn for me to say I don't love how Sam dealt with it but that it's an overreaction to say not coming to a voluntary practice for a week in May somehow turns his entire career around (torpedoes it), and suddenly makes him an awful teammate (something he's never been known for).
I am at least able to give the other side of things a chance. I've asked you numerous times without response: having an open mind, what can Sam do this year on/off the field to make you respect him? Because you can't possibly be short tempered enough that his agent talking, and him not coming to a few practices really will conclude your full opinion on someone. So what can he do now?
Insein
Footballguy
"Isnt that good" is different than he sucks. In that he's not justified in having this kind of holdout when he was the one that signed a short term deal. He was a free agent, he chose to sign here short term for a lot of money. He doesn't get to have his feelings hurt. And he wasn't mislead. None of the quotes that came before or after this supposed misleading have pointed in anyway to the Eagles misleading Bradford in anyway.
This has been Bradford making a misguided power play to get out of here. He thought if he made a stink large enough, the Eagles would just dump him for whatever. Clearly he forgot that he just got paid $11m.
Deamon
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
When did I compare them? "Stop comparing Cox holdout to Bradford" insinuates that I am constantly bringing Cox up and hinting it is the same thing. My one message about it was saying that Cox wasn't there either, but that I was not NEARLY comparing what they meant to the team.
Even if he made a misguided power play (likely at the advice of his agent), it was very short lived and very insignificant.
Even when I agree with you you're finding a way to make it a disagreement so that you can continue the stubbornness.
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JetMaxx
Footballguy
We appreciate your attempt to lighten the mood around here but these are Philly fans. Around here the 2nd coming of Jesus on the clouds would merely provide a reason to complain about the weather.
Insein
Footballguy
"Cox isn't here either and fans aren't complaining about him."
That's a comparison. You've said it at least 3 times now. If you can't see the difference then I can't help you.
I don't understand your defense of Bradford based on what the Eagles may have hypothetically said. They may have told him he'd get a free cake every day he came into the office and on his first day in they had no cake for him so he stormed out. Has just as much of a possibility as him being mislead.
Deamon
Footballguy
1. Still haven't answered the question.
2. You might be the king of exaggeration. "At least 3 times I've compared them"? You should find those posts and read what I said. Not sure if you believe the things you post or just love hyperbole.
Porkchop Express
Footballguy
Should have just showed up and not complained which is what many people suggested and not do "whats best for Sam Bradford" as you suggested and try and get a trade.
Insein
Footballguy
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Deamon
Footballguy
Runs away from questions then makes things up. Read the thread if you want to see what question. You also seem to be Having trouble finding the "at least 3 times" in the threads. Also I put directly after that that I'm not comparing the two as cox is far more valuable. For a guy who complains when media takes a small snipet of what someone says and twists it in their favour, you should take a look in the mirror. Not sure if you actually believe the things you come up with or are just trolling at this point. For your sake ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the later
renesauz
IBL Representative
Riversco
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
My point is that you exaggerate and fabricate the truth. And have been proven wrong stating I said things I didn't. So your posts and opinions have very little validity. Come back when you can be unbiased and open minded. You'll learn like you did with Foles. Just might take a bit more time this time.
Deamon
Footballguy
Hadn't heard this yet but pretty much seems bang on. Those with an unbiased open mind on the subject should take a listen.
https://twitter.com/richeisen/status/730506084025143297
https://twitter.com/richeisen/status/730506084025143297
Insein
Footballguy
5/11/16
Damage Control
4/26/16
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15388458/agent-sam-bradford-says-philadelphia-eagles-decision-trade-pick-quarterback-came-surprise
""As they were making this plan, it would have been nice if they had told him about it," said Condon"
""It's his right to demand a trade and he wants to be traded," said Condon."
"Condon said he has informed the team that Bradford will not show up at the Eagles practice facility until June 7, the first day of mandatory mini-camp. "
"He said he hopes the Eagles "realize the best way for this to resolve itself is to try to get something in return for Sam now in a trade,"
5/3/16
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/03/condons-concern-on-bradford-theres-not-really-a-competition/
Although Phil Sheridan of ESPN.com says that Condon’s “explanation fits the timeline of events,” there’s one flaw in that assessment. Condon appeared in a podcast that posted on May 3, five days after the Broncos drafted Lynch, and Condon reiterated Branford’s position. Unless the interview was taped at least five days earlier, the decision of the Broncos to draft Paxton Lynch didn’t spark the kind of epiphany that Condon’s comments to Smith suggest."
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Deamon
Footballguy
I said those with an unbiased open mind should take a listen. Maybe you missed that part. I don't see what your posts add. Condon has a job to do too and it may not exactly jive with whats best for the Eagles. THAT, bothers me as an Eagles fan first. But nonetheless, he's trying to do his job as one of the top sports agents in the world. He also said it didn't work out, and that their plan didn't work. So now what is Sam to do? Fire his agent? He already went against Condon and came back early... yet is still PE#1 in the town right now. But again, you're the expert here. The grudges some hold over something so small around here is nuts.Insein said:
Insein
Footballguy
I still don't know what you're arguing anymore. It started as Sam is justified in his holdout. Then it was Sam isn't doing anything different than Cox. Then it was Condon is just doing his job. Now it's Philly fans want to crucify poor Sam for just doing what everyone else does.
Maybe you can restate your position so we're all clear on what your point is again.
Deamon
Footballguy
I've made my point clear. You were the one who made up the fact that 'at least 3 times I compared Sam to Cox" but wouldn't find those 3+ times when asked. Calm down on the false claims, you'll enjoy being open minded more then you think.
Insein
Footballguy
Open minded to what?
Honestly I've been reading the transgender thread today and the arguments in there are easier to follow.
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Deamon
Footballguy
Again, care to back up your claim of what I said? Or are you admitting what you said wasn't true.
Deamon
Footballguy
My point has been made clear. Sam asked for a trade because he wanted to go to a place where he didn't have to risk injury and learn a new playbook just to be a stepping stone. Do I blame him for wanting to go elsewhere? Not at all. Everyone agreed they'd be ticked off too. Did he have the career numbers to be 'allowed' to ask out? Is there a benchmark of talent for wanting to play elsewhere? That's definitely open to debate or interpretation.
His agent may have and seems likely to have driven a large majority of this thing. You don't like that sentiment either because it doesn't go along with the "Screw Sam!" agenda that many took because they were hurt by him asking for a trade. But either way, Condon was doing HIS job as one of the top agents, and likely had talks with Denver, so made a decision (which may or may not have been a good one.... looking now like it wasn't a good one since Howie rejected the trade offer).
It didn't work out for them, so Sam came back to work. But yes my stance also very much so includes that he doesn't deserve this crucifixion that fans are giving a guy for simply asking to go elsewhere, holding out (if you can even call it holding out, he just didn't come to something that was voluntary), then coming back when he realized it wasn't happening. I'm open minded to the fact that more probably went on then any of us will ever know, and that one side may have been slightly wrong, but more likely its a scenario of two sides trying to make a better situation happen for them and I can't fault either side to such an EXTREME degree. That's what ratings-driven NFL analysts and writers are for.
His agent may have and seems likely to have driven a large majority of this thing. You don't like that sentiment either because it doesn't go along with the "Screw Sam!" agenda that many took because they were hurt by him asking for a trade. But either way, Condon was doing HIS job as one of the top agents, and likely had talks with Denver, so made a decision (which may or may not have been a good one.... looking now like it wasn't a good one since Howie rejected the trade offer).
It didn't work out for them, so Sam came back to work. But yes my stance also very much so includes that he doesn't deserve this crucifixion that fans are giving a guy for simply asking to go elsewhere, holding out (if you can even call it holding out, he just didn't come to something that was voluntary), then coming back when he realized it wasn't happening. I'm open minded to the fact that more probably went on then any of us will ever know, and that one side may have been slightly wrong, but more likely its a scenario of two sides trying to make a better situation happen for them and I can't fault either side to such an EXTREME degree. That's what ratings-driven NFL analysts and writers are for.
Insein
Footballguy
Last thing I'll say on it and then I will not respond to a Bradford related post again.
It was only 2 times you mentioned Cox. My bad.
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/740245-official-2016-philadelphia-eagles-wentz-is-signed/?page=105#comment-19102597
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/740245-official-2016-philadelphia-eagles-wentz-is-signed/?page=103#comment-19096027
You having an open mind about an imaginary conversation does not help your case.
And finally, NO ONE cares that much about Sam. I said he'd be booed because he will. That's just going to happen regardless. After that though, most won't care. A lot of the "hatred" you're seeing out there is from former players in the media voicing their opinions. They'll be over it by June.
Sam will be forgotten about and we will only be reminded once training camp and preseason rolls around. We'll boo, then life goes on.
No more Bradford
Deamon
Footballguy
Yes, twice I brought him up, not "at least three", and my exact quote was "Cox hasn't gone to voluntary workouts either. Obviously not comparing the two in terms of value"... I was making a point that players miss voluntary workouts all the time and it's hardly mentioned anywhere. But again, picking and choosing your parts of quotes and then making up that there are more in order to support your case seems to be the norm for you. Hopefully you can adjust that before the season starts.
Again, I didn't bring up an imaginary conversation. I'm saying probably more went on then you're allowing your single-tracked mind to believe. Did Sam and Howie ever talk before they signed him? Or after? Probably. But you seem to be the only one in the world who knows exactly what was said with exact certainty. That's a great skill and maybe you can fill us in on more conversations that you read the transcripts for next season.
You keep downplaying this hatred aspect and playing both sides of the coin. On one hand you paint him to have done something so horrifically bad (torpedoed his career with this bold move, he will be booed, I don't even want to think about my team's starting quarterback this year, etc), and then go on to say that all will be forgotten come June and most won't care. Based on the history of a lot of our fans, and yourself, forgiving a player simply isn't the sure thing you claim it to be. Hopefully any time he has a bad game you don't rush back with your infamous "I told you so" posts that you love so much. Can't we just cheer for Sam/Philly's successes this year and then for Wentz/Philly's successes next year without flooding any more negativity into the in-season threads then we already have to deal with?
modogg
Footballguy
i actually laughed out loud with this one. Similar threads
