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***Official 2018 St. Louis Cardinals Thread*** -- Matheny gone (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gianmarco
- Start date
Grahamburn
Footballguy
As a Cardinals' fan nobody can blame you for not liking his comments. Of course Matheny will disagree. What else is he supposed to say?RnR said:
I appreciate Heyward's honesty. It's a breath of fresh air. The media and we as fans are always asking for honesty, but as soon as an athlete answers a question frankly they're crucified for it.
RnR
Footballguy
Brady Marino
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Don't forget the non-zero chance the BFIB "burn Wrigley to the ### #### ground" now that Heyward is playing there.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Welcome, Mike Leake!
Stay healthy, keep inducing ground balls, and we're all going to get along just great.
Stay healthy, keep inducing ground balls, and we're all going to get along just great.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Yay?
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Honestly, I think that's the correct reaction. The Cards signed a stunningly average pitcher youngish for a FA to a long-term contract. Seems like a lot for guy who at best is an innings-eating 3rd starter, but if he does prove to be that over the life of the contract he will be worth the money.Wainwright, Garcia, Leake, Wacha, Martinez.
I suppose that can work.
RnR
Footballguy
The plot thickens, as Wainwright says pretty much exactly what I thought.
"When you look at that money that was offered to him, there’s really not much more our management can do than offer him that contract," Wainwright said during his interview with Miklasz. "He knows that we’re going to be in a position to win every year. and what it comes down to is this: he didn’t want to play there after myself, and Yadier (Molina) and Matt (Holliday) were gone, on such a long contract.
"it really comes down to a personality trait to me. The person that we want to give that kind of money to, that big money to, he needs to be a person that wants to be the guy that carries the torch. He needs to be a guy that wants to be the person, that after we leave, he carries on the tradition. And that’s just a personality thing, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But we’re looking for that guy who wants to be the man.”
RnR
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Sour grapes continue. If he had this "I'm afraid to be the Man" flawed personality trait then why did the almighty infallible Cardinals front office offer him $200M?!
He didn't sign with you so now he's afraid to carry on the tradition? Get over yourselves.
It's kind of fun to finally see this organization, their manager, and the players finally fearing the Cubs for a change.
He didn't sign with you so now he's afraid to carry on the tradition? Get over yourselves.
It's kind of fun to finally see this organization, their manager, and the players finally fearing the Cubs for a change.
RnR
Footballguy
Merry Christmas to you as well.
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RnR
Footballguy
Matt Holliday has been one of the more durable players in the league during the last decade. But hey, that probably doesn't fit your narrative well so lets ignore it.
He's a much bigger risk of age-related decline than he is a guy with a checkered injury past.
RnR
Footballguy
Cardinals to Heyward: "Jason, we want you to be the next in the line of a tradition of players to carry the torch for this franchise. We're prepared to compensate you in a way that we've never compensated anyone else to do so."
Heyward to Cardinals: "Thanks, but no thanks. I'm going to the Cubs.
Heyward to media: "I chose the Cubs because I love the young nucleus I get to play with there. The Cardinals core is getting old and I'm not sure who will be there to carry the torch forward."
.....
The implication of that series of events is pretty simple. Sorry you see that as sour grapes. I really do wish him the best. He didn't want what the Cards wanted him for, and its best to find that out by him taking a contract somewhere else than it would be to find it out two years into a 10-year agreement.
I'm officially done with Heyward talk now. We need more Mike Leake action in here!
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Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Enjoy the extra draft pick and no World Series titles after Heyward opts out and leaves winter 2018.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
155, 158, 139, 156, 158, 124, 157, 141, 156, 73. Just imagine what this guy's career could have been if he'd just stayed on the field. He only led the league in games played at LF five times in his career, and is 13th in games played at LF in the last 60 years. If only...
Yes, need to be concerned about decline from Holliday because he turns 36 in January and missed some time last season. Hopeful he's an option at 1B next season, think we will see him pulled for defensive purposes in late innings a lot, and he's likely to DH in AL parks, all to reduce wear and tear.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Cardinals talking to Rockies about trading bats, interested in dealing Matt Adams for an outfielder. Adams won't be enough to get Carlos Gonzalez, but could get Corey Dickerson or Charlie Blackmon.
Balco
Footballguy
I think Gonzalez would be the easiest of the 3 to get. But why would the Rockies want Matt Adams? Would think they would be looking for pitching.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Welcome Seung-Hwan Oh!
Mid-90s fastball with an average slider sounds like a 7th-inning guy in the STL bullpen, but the nickname "Final Boss" ####### rules.
All for it. Anything that gives Matheny less incentive to reach for the bullpen phone and say "Get Broxton Up" into it is welcomed.
Seems like this move doesn't give much confidence in Jordan Walden's recovery, but it's an inexpensive FA signing with a cheap 2017 option if he works out.
Mid-90s fastball with an average slider sounds like a 7th-inning guy in the STL bullpen, but the nickname "Final Boss" ####### rules.
All for it. Anything that gives Matheny less incentive to reach for the bullpen phone and say "Get Broxton Up" into it is welcomed.
Seems like this move doesn't give much confidence in Jordan Walden's recovery, but it's an inexpensive FA signing with a cheap 2017 option if he works out.
Brady Marino
Footballguy
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
I think Bruce just bangs on Broxton these days because he knows it's a cheap way to get likes from me.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Shrewd move by the Cardinals giving Oh jersey number 26. They can just rip a few letters off some old Kyle Lohse jerseys and give them to Oh. Can save a few bucks that way.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
It's Avoiding Arbitration Season!
Brandon Moss: $8.25MM
Trevor Rosenthal: $5.6MM
For that kind of money, I suppose the club expects Moss to start at 1B or pick up some extra PAs in the outfield.
I'm biased against big money for closers, but Rosenthal is still under the 1.0 WAR on open market threshold.
Brandon Moss: $8.25MM
Trevor Rosenthal: $5.6MM
For that kind of money, I suppose the club expects Moss to start at 1B or pick up some extra PAs in the outfield.
I'm biased against big money for closers, but Rosenthal is still under the 1.0 WAR on open market threshold.
RnR
Footballguy
That hip better be healthy, because that's an expensive backup RF if Adams beats him in the spring.
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Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Yeah, I suppose it's better than non-tendering Moss and losing him for nothing, but there's some expectations with that price tag.
Maness will make $1.4MM.
Adams will make $1.65MM.
Adams technically didn't avoid arbitration because some paperwork deadline was missed, so by rule Adams has to go through the arbitration process. But I think it will be a quick one since both sides filed for $1.65MM.
RnR
Footballguy
Definitely better than a non-tender. For what they gave up, it's worth seeing through to see if there's a 30 HR season hiding in that bat.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Absolutely. Too bad Adams has zero trade value right now. Wouldn't even need to get a regular in return - a nice fourth outfielder or some bullpen depth to fill in when the bodies start dropping.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Brady Marino
Footballguy
Not only that, but Oh's deal will end up bigger if his option is exercised.
Far more excited about Oh than the Ghost of Broxton.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Jordan Walden will be on the normal reliever ramp-up workload in Spring Training. That's good news. However, if his health was a sure thing they wouldn't have brought back Broxton and signed Oh.
Opening Day projected staff:
SP: Wainwright, Garcia, Wacha, Martinez, Leake
RP: Rosenthal, Seigrist, Walden, Maness, Oh, Broxton, Lyons
That long reliever slot is a bit up in the air. I put Lyons there because he's out of options. Could just as easily be Gonzales or Cooney. Gonzales seems to be the guy from that group the team is highest on, but will probably put him in Memphis so he can get regular SP work, biding his time until Garcia gets hurt.
Tuivailala will see some time with the MLB team; he's the first call-up when one of the short relievers gets hurt. But if everyone is good to go when it's time to pack up and move north, Tuivailala start the season as the closer in Memphis.
Opening Day projected staff:
SP: Wainwright, Garcia, Wacha, Martinez, Leake
RP: Rosenthal, Seigrist, Walden, Maness, Oh, Broxton, Lyons
That long reliever slot is a bit up in the air. I put Lyons there because he's out of options. Could just as easily be Gonzales or Cooney. Gonzales seems to be the guy from that group the team is highest on, but will probably put him in Memphis so he can get regular SP work, biding his time until Garcia gets hurt.
Tuivailala will see some time with the MLB team; he's the first call-up when one of the short relievers gets hurt. But if everyone is good to go when it's time to pack up and move north, Tuivailala start the season as the closer in Memphis.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
And the projected hitters:
C: Molina, Pena
1B Moss, Adams
2B: Wong
SS: Peralta
3B: Carpenter
UT: Gyorko, Garcia
LF: Holliday
CF: Grichuk
RF: Piscotty
OF: Pham
The regular starting jobs seem locked up assuming health, but the batting order seems way up in the air. Carpenter will hit leadoff, Holliday third... but after that, who knows? Wong wants to hit leadoff, but he's mostly likely 2nd or 8th against RHP, and sitting against LHP for Gyorko. Grichuk and Piscotty will probably hit all over the order as the season progresses.
I'd expect Pham to get a lot of late-inning stints to get Holliday off the field when protecting leads.
Moss will probably play a little RF to get an extra lefty bat in the order.
Holliday spent some time this offseason learning how to play 1B, but I doubt he plays there much.
C: Molina, Pena
1B Moss, Adams
2B: Wong
SS: Peralta
3B: Carpenter
UT: Gyorko, Garcia
LF: Holliday
CF: Grichuk
RF: Piscotty
OF: Pham
The regular starting jobs seem locked up assuming health, but the batting order seems way up in the air. Carpenter will hit leadoff, Holliday third... but after that, who knows? Wong wants to hit leadoff, but he's mostly likely 2nd or 8th against RHP, and sitting against LHP for Gyorko. Grichuk and Piscotty will probably hit all over the order as the season progresses.
I'd expect Pham to get a lot of late-inning stints to get Holliday off the field when protecting leads.
Moss will probably play a little RF to get an extra lefty bat in the order.
Holliday spent some time this offseason learning how to play 1B, but I doubt he plays there much.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Two conclusions to draw with the aggression the Cardinals have shown scouting international prospects and communicating with international contacts:
1) Expect the Cardinals to bust the budget on international signing bonuses this summer
2) Don't expect sentencing for the Astros hacking to happen by this summer
Cardinals are targeting Victor Garcia (OF, Venezuela) and Jonatan Machado (CF, Cuba) for this summer, both teenagers.
With the most likely hacking penalties being loss of draft picks or loss of international signing rights, loading up on Caribbean teenagers this summer is a good move to mitigate the penalties when they come.
1) Expect the Cardinals to bust the budget on international signing bonuses this summer
2) Don't expect sentencing for the Astros hacking to happen by this summer
Cardinals are targeting Victor Garcia (OF, Venezuela) and Jonatan Machado (CF, Cuba) for this summer, both teenagers.
With the most likely hacking penalties being loss of draft picks or loss of international signing rights, loading up on Caribbean teenagers this summer is a good move to mitigate the penalties when they come.
gianmarco
Footballguy
RnR
Footballguy
If Randal Grichuk is the 44th best player in the league this season, we'll be in pretty good shape.
Heck, if he's the 144th best player in the league I think we'd take that and move on, right?
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Grichuk is farther along than Piscotty, and Grichuk's ability to play CF gives him added value to STL this season.
Piscotty has been held in higher regard and seems to have a higher ceiling as a hitter. Piscotty's highest positional value is at 3B, but Carpenter is there for a while so STL will try Piscotty in RF this season.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Cardinals sign Wong to a 5-year extension plus 6th-year team option, buying out his arbitration years plus a year of free agency. $25.5MM guaranteed, 2021 team option of $12.5MM.
Similar deal to what they did with Carpenter, offering Wong guaranteed money at a lower AAV than he would probably get going year-to-year through the process.
Really like this deal, and certainly on-brand with how Mozeliak values homegrown talent. 2B is a high injury-risk position, but Wong is a steal as a 2-win player at that price. If another prospect breaks out, that contract is tradeable.
Similar deal to what they did with Carpenter, offering Wong guaranteed money at a lower AAV than he would probably get going year-to-year through the process.
Really like this deal, and certainly on-brand with how Mozeliak values homegrown talent. 2B is a high injury-risk position, but Wong is a steal as a 2-win player at that price. If another prospect breaks out, that contract is tradeable.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Depends on what you're looking for. Grichuk has power Piscotty can never hope to develop. The ball jumps off his bat. But he strikes out too much and doesn't know what a walk looks like. Grichuk should have a good deal more HRs than Piscotty, but Piscotty's OBP and BA will be higher.
Piscotty should be eligible in OF and 1B, so he gives you greater flexibility. Because Grichuk has that power potential the Cards are dying for, he'll probably have a longer leash, though. Adams/Moss could push Piscotty out of the rotation at 1B, leaving him as a backup 1B and potentially 4th OF, whereas you would expect Grichuk to get every chance to play RF or CF for the bulk of the season. It would likely take injury or vastly superior play by Piscotty to keep that from happening.
Piscotty should be eligible in OF and 1B, so he gives you greater flexibility. Because Grichuk has that power potential the Cards are dying for, he'll probably have a longer leash, though. Adams/Moss could push Piscotty out of the rotation at 1B, leaving him as a backup 1B and potentially 4th OF, whereas you would expect Grichuk to get every chance to play RF or CF for the bulk of the season. It would likely take injury or vastly superior play by Piscotty to keep that from happening.
