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***OFFICIAL 2020 NFL Draft Thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Faust
MVP
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Surprised he got drafted. Bit of a hothead. Always in the coach's hair
Would do well to make their PS
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JaxBill
Footballguy
Faust
MVP
nirad3
Footballguy
Faust
MVP
I can't think of a recent example of a guy going undrafted, who was almost universally mocked as a day 2 pick, that didn't have either major injury or off field issues.
What the hell is the issue with Hunter Bryant? I thought he was arguably the best TE in the class.
What the hell is the issue with Hunter Bryant? I thought he was arguably the best TE in the class.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Anthony Gordon undrafted?
Yep, surprised by that too. I would have thought Minshew's success would have pushed Gordon up the board, since he was every bit as good as Washington St.
ZWK
Footballguy
Here are the 32 teams' drafted ranked from best to worst at not reaching (compared to pre-draft consensus):
Arizona Cardinals
Dallas Cowboys
Buffalo Bills
Cleveland Browns
New Orleans Saints
Carolina Panthers
Detroit Lions
Cincinnati Bengals
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Minnesota Vikings
Washington Redskins
Baltimore Ravens
Los Angeles Rams
New York Giants
Denver Broncos
San Francisco 49ers
Jacksonville Jaguars
Houston Texans
New York Jets
Chicago Bears
Los Angeles Chargers
Tennessee Titans
Las Vegas Raiders
Philadelphia Eagles
Miami Dolphins
Indianapolis Colts
Pittsburgh Steelers
Kansas City Chiefs
Atlanta Falcons
New England Patriots
Seattle Seahawks
Green Bay Packers
This uses Arif Hasan's consensus draft board, penalizes teams for reaching compared to that draft board, and doesn't reward teams at all for getting "steals" relative to that draft board. If you also reward teams for getting "steals", that helps BAL, DEN, NYJ, TEN, PHI, and IND and it hurts DET, CIN, SF, JAX, and HOU.
Arizona Cardinals
Dallas Cowboys
Buffalo Bills
Cleveland Browns
New Orleans Saints
Carolina Panthers
Detroit Lions
Cincinnati Bengals
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Minnesota Vikings
Washington Redskins
Baltimore Ravens
Los Angeles Rams
New York Giants
Denver Broncos
San Francisco 49ers
Jacksonville Jaguars
Houston Texans
New York Jets
Chicago Bears
Los Angeles Chargers
Tennessee Titans
Las Vegas Raiders
Philadelphia Eagles
Miami Dolphins
Indianapolis Colts
Pittsburgh Steelers
Kansas City Chiefs
Atlanta Falcons
New England Patriots
Seattle Seahawks
Green Bay Packers
This uses Arif Hasan's consensus draft board, penalizes teams for reaching compared to that draft board, and doesn't reward teams at all for getting "steals" relative to that draft board. If you also reward teams for getting "steals", that helps BAL, DEN, NYJ, TEN, PHI, and IND and it hurts DET, CIN, SF, JAX, and HOU.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Penn State 2017-18, they even created an offensive weapon position for him.
Not sure what happened in 2019 to make him leave for Starkville.
But the Saints trading back in to get him is notable.
Feels great to talk football, complain about ESPN, and have a few drinks while doing it with y'all again. Hope we are able to do it with some live action in the fall.
I was planning on writing up a whole thing rating team's drafts, but am too tired so I'll just rank the best and worst:
5 Best:
1. Minnesota
2. Detroit
3. Cleveland
4. Buffalo(counting Diggs as their 1st)
5. Baltimore
5 Worst
28. Las Vegas
29. Los Angeles Rams
30. New England
31. Miami(I didn't think they got anywhere near enough for all the picks they had)
32. Green Bay
5 Best:
1. Minnesota
2. Detroit
3. Cleveland
4. Buffalo(counting Diggs as their 1st)
5. Baltimore
5 Worst
28. Las Vegas
29. Los Angeles Rams
30. New England
31. Miami(I didn't think they got anywhere near enough for all the picks they had)
32. Green Bay
Deamon
Footballguy
I think the list is pretty good. I'd give Dallas and Arizona the top 2 drafts. And would give GB the worst.
Interested to hear this take when you have the time. My take is in the Dolphins thread. Cheers.
ZWK
Footballguy
All this ranking is doing is penalizing teams for "reaching" to draft players before they were expected to go. It ignores all trades and just looks at the picks they used.
Buffalo had a grand total of... zero(?)... wait, I did my calculations wrong. It was a smallish mistake but the ranking I posted earlier is slightly off (I'll edit to fix it). Buffalo should be third (after ARI & DAL).
Buffalo had a grand total of 1 reach during the draft. 6 of their 7 picks were drafted at or after their consensus predraft rank. With the 188th pick they selected Tyler Bass, who was not in the top 256 on the consensus big board, so that's their 1 reach. And the 188th pick is not much draft capital (even relative to their depleted set of picks). So they rank in the top 3 for their nearly reach-free draft.
Whereas Seattle started off by spending a 1st round pick on a guy who was a consensus board 3rd rounder, then used their 2nd round pick on another 3rd rounder, and then continued to reach (though less so) on their next 3 picks. They burned 40% of their draft capital on reaches, going by the consensus big board, whereas Arizona led the way by burning only 1%.
This is obviously an imperfect way to evaluate drafts because NFL teams know things that fans don't, so a lot of the things that we think of as reaches or steals are really just cases where we (and the "experts" publishing big boards) were misinformed about prospects. That's why I said the ranking was "from best to worst at not reaching" rather than just from best to worst. But I think we're not totally clueless before the wisdom of NFL franchises and there is some value in looking at things like this. I chose to focus just on reaches (and not credit teams for steals) because I think it's harder for fans to judge steals than to judge reaches. The private information that teams have (about injuries, character, etc.) is more negative than positive, so if a guy falls in the draft compared to where fans think he should it's more likely to be for good reasons than if he rises. Also, for the NFL to make a mistake in letting a guy fall all 32 teams need to be making that mistake, whereas for the NFL to make a mistake in drafting a guy too early only 1 team needs to be making a mistake.
Challenge Everything
Footballguy
I liked the format of the whole draft a lot better than having an arena rented out. There was more personality to the whole draft and just felt better.
I love that they stayed put and got Tua. If not for his injury, I feel I could make a case for him over Burrow. Alas the injury exists and may or may not being a thing that effects him long term. I'll gladly take the risk on a Franchise QB, and not just a guy who is called Franchise because he went in round 1(Jordan Love) but one who has actually earned the moniker.
After that though, the draft goes down a giant rabbit hole of unnecessary high risk guys, and strange decisions.
Austin Jackson was a gigantic reach in my opinion. Maybe the worst pick of round 1. I know he was on the 1/2 borderline by consensus ranks. But I watched a to of his play, and wasn't very impressed. He looked more like a day 3 guy than a 1st rounder. I saw a finesse player, who isn't technically sound at all, who isn't really as athletic as his combine suggested. He also had a pretty easy time in the PAC-12, where their simply weren't many good pass rushers. Bradlee Anae had a great game against him. Jackson got rag-dolled by Epenesa when they faced off. Jackson is very young, and was coming off a rough offseason. But he's a long ways from being a quality NFL starter. That smelled like forcing a pick on a position of need. I think they would have been much better off taking a WR for Tua(Reagor, Jefferson were both there) or perhaps Patrick Queen for the defense.
Noah Igbinoghene wasn't as egregious, but still a risky pick. He is also a toolsy, unrefined project. Which is fine, but not in the 1st round. His technique is really poor, he basically just runs with guys, with no real clue as to what route they may be running. He also is very much a guy who is grabby. The NFL is a lot more flag heavy than college on that. Also he doesn't have great ball skills(1 career INT) though that isn't a dealbreaker, and could also describe Byron Jones. But again my problem is, why take such a risky player. Why not take a Higgins or Pittman at WR, or if DB was the need, why not take McKinney?
Robert Hunt isn't an awful pick, but just not worthy of pick 39. An OL who has major issues as a pass blocker is not the recipe in 2020. Hunt is an excellent run blocker, no arguments there, I'd be surprised if he wasn't kicking to Guard, even though he was better when he moved to Tackle.Also he's already 24, which makes me question his ceiling. I don't hate the guy, just felt a round early(which is a theme here) and again, I think this was another spot for a WR like Shenault. Or a playmaking DB like Delpit or Winfield. Just feels like forcing an OL pick this high.
Raekwon Davis was the 1st really bad pick, that wasn't just a reach, but a player who just made no sense. Its hard to justify a 2nd round pick on a 1 dimensional run stopper in 2020. In 2000, sure he's worth a 2nd rounder, but now, he's a day 3 talent, and the only difference between him and those day 3 run stuffers, is his draft card says Alabama on it. I think you put the exact same player, but from say, Akron, no higher than round 4. This is also the 1st pick that doesn't at least have traits you could hope to develop. He is what he is, and what he is, is a run stuffer in an era where those guys have little value, and the supply greatly outweighs the demand. If they hadn't forced o-line picks already, this was a great spot for Ezra Cleveland. Kristian Fulton looks great here, as does Denzel Mims.
Brandon Jones just screams special teamer. Never really did anything at Texas. Not really sure what position he should play either. He seemed at his best as a slot CB, but I'm not sure he's athletic enough to do that in the NFL, and was repeatedly beat deep as a deep safety. Not to be a broken record, but guys like Justin Madubuike and Davon Hamilton(both far better prospects than Davis) were still here, Josh Jones too, if they hadn't forced those o-line picks earlier.
I'm not going to go through every pick, but I will say I did like the Curtis Weaver pick a ton. I'm not really sure why he fell so far. Maybe being 6-2? His level of competition wasn't great, but he dominated it. He was Chase Young to those small schools. 27 sacks over the last 2 seasons. His combine was really good too, his shuttle and 3-cone were near the top of the position.
So my big gripe is that they had 6 picks in the 1st 3 rounds, and Tua is really the only sure thing in my eyes, and even he has health questions. They forced some picks to fill needs, which is never a good idea, and passed on a bunch of great players i the process. I get the idea of protecting the new Franchise QB, but it helps just as much to give him weapons, and they ignored that. They are betting heavily on Preston Williams making back from a late season torn ACL(IIRC) and a big jump from Gesicki(possible)
Obviously, the draft isn't static, and any changes could effect what happens next, but doesn't a 1st 6 picks of:
Tua, Queen, McKinney, Shenault, Fulton, Jones sound better than what they got?
or
Tua, Jefferson, McKinney, Winfield, Cleveland, Madubuike?
or
Tua, Queen, McKinney, Delpit, Cleveland, Jones?
Point being, they didn't need to take boom/bust prospects in round 1, that aren't ready to contribute right now. Or 1 dimensional niche guys in round 2. Or Brandon Jones period. Its very possible that they get a decent amount out of this group. But its also possible that Tua is the only impact player the got with their top-6, and if he isn't healthy, this could look scary bad. They gave up 2 great players in Tunsil and Fitzpatrck to get those extra 1st rounders, replacing them with such risky picks is a dangerous way of rebuilding to me.
So that is why I had them as the 2nd worst draft. Nobody is touching Green Bay's disaster of a draft, but considering the draft capital they had, Miami may not have been all that much better.
Bossman
Footballguy
lol .... took a player with the bad knee ... Anfernee Jennings. Almost lost his leg due to artery damage and blood clots.
Got the TE with their next pick 4 picks later.
I've obviously seen way to many Bill Belichick drafts.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
ESPN: Vikings made the best trade of draft weekend
This is strange to me because I know the Vikings lost 39 points of value according to the trade chart as I discussed here
This is strange to me because I know the Vikings lost 39 points of value according to the trade chart as I discussed here
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