*Official 2020 Philadelphia Eagles Thread* Humanity will never recover from the most horrible event to happen in the last 100 years: Doug Pederson pla (1 Viewer)

[Bigboy10182000]

Hurts didn’t.

yet

Yet his rating sits at an 82.5 (between Dalton and Foles who are 28 & 29), while completing 55% (dead last out of 36) and his YPA sits with Minshew and Lock who are 24th and 25th.  His QBR is between Nick Mullens and Sam Darnold who are 31 and 32 in the league. He only looks this “good” because Wentz looked that bad. Defenses will only get better dealing with him moving forward.

If this were any other team and it was a player you weren’t so emotionally invested in we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

 He only looks this “good” because Wentz looked that bad. 

That’s probably true actually 

Wentz has been truly awful 

 

[need2know]

It wouldn't be a bad spot. he was always compared to having a Big Ben type playing style too. I remember Ben struggled for awhile at some point. Can't remember was it his QB coach or the OC who righted the ship? 

Maybe but ben never looked like the worst qb in the game.  Wentz has all season.  Should have been benched 6 weeks ago

 

[Bigboy10182000]

That’s probably true actually 

Wentz has been truly awful 

Correct, yet he has a higher completion %, comparable YPA, and higher QBR than Hurts who in your words didn’t look miserable sooooo......

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Maybe but ben never looked like the worst qb in the game.  Wentz has all season.  Should have been benched 6 weeks ago

To be fair Ben has never been on one of the worst teams in football either. 

When judging Wentz many seem willing to overlook how bad the coaching has been and just how bad/injured the other 10 guys have been on that side of the ball. There’s not many QB’s for a 3-4-5 win team that look above average. If so that would come out to more wins. We all know this is the ultimate team game but quickly dismiss it just the same 

27 year old Ben had Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace and Heath Miller. Also had Rasheed Mendenhall who went for 1100 and 4.6 per carry. That went along with the 5th ranked defense and one of the best coaches in the game. 

 

[need2know]

To be fair Ben has never been on one of the worst teams in football either. 

When judging Wentz many seem willing to overlook how bad the coaching has been and just how bad/injured the other 10 guys have been on that side of the ball. There’s not many QB’s for a 3-4-5 win team that look above average. If so that would come out to more wins. We all know this is the ultimate team game but quickly dismiss it just the same 

27 year old Ben had Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace and Heath Miller. Also had Rasheed Mendenhall who went for 1100 and 4.6 per carry. That went along with the 5th ranked defense and one of the best coaches in the game. 

im with you on on the coaching.  makes me mad

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Correct, yet he has a higher completion %, comparable YPA, and higher QBR than Hurts who in your words didn’t look miserable sooooo......

Well Hurts also ran for 100 , didn’t throw any INTs and beat the Saints sooo....

 

[need2know]

Well Hurts also ran for 100 , didn’t throw any INTs and beat the Saints sooo....

Also took no sacks.  Its amazing how much better an offense looks when the qb doesn't take a sack or turn the ball over every possession like carson was doing 

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Well Hurts also ran for 100 , didn’t throw any INTs and beat the Saints sooo....

Doesn’t make anything you said previously less silly .  All of that is factored into the numbers already 
 

Sometimes the best response is no response at all. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Doesn’t make anything you said previously less silly .  All of that is factored into the numbers already 
 

Sometimes the best response is no response at all. 

It all started with “look like hell”

Hurts didn’t look like hell in my opinion, and I told you why. Another poster said he didn’t take a sack which I didn’t realize. Another factor in favor of him not “looking like hell”

 You threw a bunch of stats out there to I guess show he looked like hell.

fwiw, I didn’t say he looked wonderful. I said he didn’t “look like hell”. And he didn’t.

Its not like they won in spite of him 

 

[Bigboy10182000]

It all started with “look like hell”

Hurts didn’t look like hell in my opinion, and I told you why. Another poster said he didn’t take a sack which I didn’t realize. Another factor in favor of him not “looking like hell”

 You threw a bunch of stats out there to I guess show he looked like hell.

fwiw, I didn’t say he looked wonderful. I said he didn’t “look like hell”. And he didn’t.

Its not like they won in spite of him 

And that’s why i mentioned the only reason Hurts looked “good” (note the quotes) was because of how bad Wentz looked. 

When you dig deeper you’ll notice that they’re more similar than one would believe. An unexpected win and being emotionally invested can make things look different than they are. 

You know why the stats were there. The only play after that is to not reply but it’s you, so we know how that goes

 

[Cowboysfan8]

And that’s why i mentioned the only reason Hurts looked “good” (note the quotes) was because of how bad Wentz looked. 

When you dig deeper you’ll notice that they’re more similar than one would believe. An unexpected win and being emotionally invested can make things look different than they are. 

You know why the stats were there. The only play after that is to not reply but it’s you, so we know how that goes

k

bye

 

[DJackson10]

Doesn’t make anything you said previously less silly .  All of that is factored into the numbers already 
 

Sometimes the best response is no response at all. 

Not sure why you try and reason with a troll. Just ignore him so he can't seek the attention he so desperately desires 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Not sure why you try and reason with a troll. Just ignore him so he can't seek the attention he so desperately desires 

That wasn’t very excellent 

You should be happy I don’t report posts or you’d be on the outside looking in again 

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Report: Jeffrey Lurie hasn’t even considered firing Howie Roseman

Well ####

 

[need2know]

Report: Jeffrey Lurie hasn’t even considered firing Howie Roseman

Well ####

Whats jeff smoking

 

[DJackson10]

Report: Jeffrey Lurie hasn’t even considered firing Howie Roseman

Well ####

Thats not surprising. I saw an article in The Athletic of comparing what team you'd rather run right now the Eagles or Bears. Got to GMs and Bo Wulf basically said he wouldn't be shocked to see Howie stay because of the loyalty and trust Lurie has in him. If he isn't considering firing Howie one has to suspect it's probably Doug going. 

 

[Insein]

Report: Jeffrey Lurie hasn’t even considered firing Howie Roseman

Well ####

You're surprised?

 

[Insein]

Chargers doing us another favor should we lose. 

 

[Deamon]

Chargers doing us another favor should we lose. 

Go Carolina, Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston!!!!!

 

[GoBirds]

Report: Jeffrey Lurie hasn’t even considered firing Howie Roseman

Well ####

That’s ridiculous, he better at least send him on a far away vacation Draft week. The nerd is the worst talent evaluator in the NFL. 

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Those rumblings of “Doug wouldn’t mind if he got fired” could be a sign of “Doug doesn’t like Howie’s moves and is upset that Lurie won’t fire or strip power from him.”

 

[Insein]

Those rumblings of “Doug wouldn’t mind if he got fired” could be a sign of “Doug doesn’t like Howie’s moves and is upset that Lurie won’t fire or strip power from him.”

Most likely.

 

[jasvic]

Report: Jeffrey Lurie hasn’t even considered firing Howie Roseman

Well ####

More reason for me to root for a surprise division win and creating more Hurts/Wentz drama. If they aren't going to actively improve the team, at least make it interesting for me.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

It’s odd how our coach can’t get big plays from this guy but the Raiders coach has no issues doing it. 

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Whats jeff smoking

You're surprised?

That’s ridiculous, he better at least send him on a far away vacation Draft week. The nerd is the worst talent evaluator in the NFL. 

Not going to lie, I am surprised. While the article has a fair share of speculation that could be easily dismissed during him seemed like a slam-dunk to me. It’s not like he doesn’t have a decent sample size and it’s mostly trash. The only rational thing I can come up with is that he can be good with the cap and maybe Jeff wants that taken care of before putting someone else in that spot? That’s really all I have. 

As bad as Doug has been this year id keep him before Howie because Howie has been that bad for so long. 

 

[Insein]

Not going to lie, I am surprised. While the article has a fair share of speculation that could be easily dismissed during him seemed like a slam-dunk to me. It’s not like he doesn’t have a decent sample size and it’s mostly trash. The only rational thing I can come up with is that he can be good with the cap and maybe Jeff wants that taken care of before putting someone else in that spot? That’s really all I have. 

As bad as Doug has been this year id keep him before Howie because Howie has been that bad for so long. 

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it. I'm just saying I'm not surprised Lurie isn't firing him. That was always at like 5% possible to me  

 

[Kiddnets]

Somebody in the Steelers thread threw out the notion of the Steelers possibly making an offer for Wentz.  I don't think the financials would work out but I would LOVE to see what Carson could do with those receivers and good coaching.  I would be giddy to have him as Ben's replacement.  Worst case scenario is that he's truly lost it mentally and forever a bottom tier QB.  More likely scenario (based on his entire track record prior to this season) is that he turns out to be an adequate to good replacement for Ben (with the potential of turning into a home run).  

Pitt is in cap hell next year - zero chance they can take on a salary like Wentz....Indy is the team to watch...lots of cap room and the Reich connection.  Trading Wentz would still hurt the cap for 2021 but Hurts is so cheap it would balance out.....and would save them from the awful hits in 2022 and 2023.....Indy is also one of the teams to value Wentz enough to actually trade something for him to make Philly save face....no shot a a 1st rder but maybe a 2d or 3rd....I think Wentz would rebound in Indy with solid OL and coaching.....Hurts is best in Philly as they need a mobile QB with that awful OL....win/win.  

If they bring them both back and have them battle it out it would be a disaster.  

 

[babydemon90]

Really? I thought I read cap hit would be reduced. If not then they might as well keep him.

Cap hit is the same I think if they trade or keep him. Cutting him is not an option. Next offseason is a different story.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

no shot a a 1st rder but maybe a 2d or 3rd.

His value is going to be all over the place IMO. If one team thinks he is correctable and feels like they can get the previous 3 years production or better, he could get multiple picks including a 1. He’s 27 and should have a lot of football left. 

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Just thinking out loud....

Let’s assume Hurts plays well the rest of the way. Who gets the most value in a trade for us next season out of the him and Wentz?

 

[Kiddnets]

His value is going to be all over the place IMO. If one team thinks he is correctable and feels like they can get the previous 3 years production or better, he could get multiple picks including a 1. He’s 27 and should have a lot of football left. 

No argument there....its the $30M anchor that is the issue - very few teams can and would take that hit

 

[babydemon90]

My thought on Howie is tempered by not really knowing how/who made the decisions.
There are actually some decent picks. Sweat, Sanders, Goedert, Mailata, Driscoll, Singleton.

What kills is high profile misses the past two years. JJ over Metcalf, Reagor over Jefferson.

Hypothetically - what if Howie was pushing for Jefferson, coaches were pushing for Reagor, and they went with the coaches pick? No clue if that's what happened, but its possible Lurie has reasons to not can Howie that we don't know.

 

[babydemon90]

Just thinking out loud....

Let’s assume Hurts plays well the rest of the way. Who gets the most value in a trade for us next season out of the him and Wentz?

If we get an offer for a late first for Hurts, I take it and don't look back. I think actually, a first for either of them I take in a heartbeat.

I think if Hurts plays well, its more likely to get a 1st for him as opposed to Wentz.  The only saving grace is teams know we aren't going to cut Wentz, so its not like they have to wait us out.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

No argument there....its the $30M anchor that is the issue - very few teams can and would take that hit

Currently. Teams will surely adjust and create space in the off season. 

My thought on Howie is tempered by not really knowing how/who made the decisions.
There are actually some decent picks. Sweat, Sanders, Goedert, Mailata, Driscoll, Singleton.

What kills is high profile misses the past two years. JJ over Metcalf, Reagor over Jefferson.

Hypothetically - what if Howie was pushing for Jefferson, coaches were pushing for Reagor, and they went with the coaches pick? No clue if that's what happened, but its possible Lurie has reasons to not can Howie that we don't know.

I’m sure there’s ultimately a guy in charge after weighing all of their options. You’d have to take your scouts and coaches input as well but the buck has to stop with someone. While he’s pulled a few out of his hat (the hate part) he has done so bad with the layups. We really need to get to the bottom of who is telling us to pick these west coast guys and fire them lol

If we get an offer for a late first for Hurts, I take it and don't look back. I think actually, a first for either of them I take in a heartbeat.

I think if Hurts plays well, its more likely to get a 1st for him as opposed to Wentz.  The only saving grace is teams know we aren't going to cut Wentz, so its not like they have to wait us out.

I was thinking the same but wasn’t sure how much has changed in a year with Hurts. He was the 5th QB taken and I don’t know if a few good games would suddenly shoot his value into the first round. 

 

[Insein]

No argument there....its the $30M anchor that is the issue - very few teams can and would take that hit

If they think they're getting a top 10 QB that they just have to coach up, then the salary is a bargain compared to the market rate being set. It all depends on what a team thinks of Wentz. 

 

[Insein]

My thought on Howie is tempered by not really knowing how/who made the decisions.
There are actually some decent picks. Sweat, Sanders, Goedert, Mailata, Driscoll, Singleton.

What kills is high profile misses the past two years. JJ over Metcalf, Reagor over Jefferson.

Hypothetically - what if Howie was pushing for Jefferson, coaches were pushing for Reagor, and they went with the coaches pick? No clue if that's what happened, but its possible Lurie has reasons to not can Howie that we don't know.

Yep. Same way we all know Marcus Smith was Chip's pick but Howie took the bullet for it to bury the issue when he took over again in 2016. Howie has been average to below average but he's not as bad as the high profile misses make it seem.

 

[Kiddnets]

If they think they're getting a top 10 QB that they just have to coach up, then the salary is a bargain compared to the market rate being set. It all depends on what a team thinks of Wentz. 

It is a better situation than Osweiler who showed he stunk....Wentz probably still has fans in coaches and front offices that blame the situation more than talent...still cant see a 1st rder with all that $ left but who knows....

Doesnt help that the cap is going to go down next year.....looking at teams that have QB needs and could find ways to get that under the cap:

likely interest  - I dont think Phlly wants to trade him within conference - Indy, Pats and Denver all make sense...Pats/Indy best shot at a 1st rder 

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Yep. Same way we all know Marcus Smith was Chip's pick but Howie took the bullet for it to bury the issue when he took over again in 2016. Howie has been average to below average but he's not as bad as the high profile misses make it seem.

How many layups can you miss before being considered bad? Sure you hit a half court shot here and there but game on the line layups need to happen and he’s missed them all. Even the players he's “hit” have a long way to go yet before they’re considered good picks. 

Him having a top 10-15 pick actually scares me lol

 

[Bigboy10182000]

likely interest  - I dont think Phlly wants to trade him within conference - Indy, Pats and Denver all make sense...Pats/Indy best shot at a 1st rder 

I can’t imagine they’d limit themselves to one conference if they wanted to move on. The division I can kind of understand but if we don’t believe he’s the one we shouldn’t care who he goes to  

Without getting too far into the weeds with Cap numbers or picks you could also add:

Oakland

Pittsburgh 

49ers

Bears

Saints

Tampa 

 

[Insein]

It is a better situation than Osweiler who showed he stunk....Wentz probably still has fans in coaches and front offices that blame the situation more than talent...still cant see a 1st rder with all that $ left but who knows....

Doesnt help that the cap is going to go down next year.....looking at teams that have QB needs and could find ways to get that under the cap:

likely interest  - I dont think Phlly wants to trade him within conference - Indy, Pats and Denver all make sense...Pats/Indy best shot at a 1st rder 

I definitely think a first is the only way a trade is even considered. Jay Cutler was traded in his 4th year at 26 for 2 1st's, a 3rd and a starting QB. 

Cutler had a TD-Int ratio of 54-37 after 3 years. Carson had 97-35 after 4 years. This season is by far the outlier of his career.

 

[Insein]

How many layups can you miss before being considered bad? Sure you hit a half court shot here and there but game on the line layups need to happen and he’s missed them all. Even the players he's “hit” have a long way to go yet before they’re considered good picks. 

Him having a top 10-15 pick actually scares me lol

Hes had 4 picks inside the top 15. Fletcher Cox, Lane Johnson, Carson Wentz, Derek Barnett. I'd be more scared if he's in the 16-32 range. 

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Hes had 4 picks inside the top 15. Fletcher Cox, Lane Johnson, Carson Wentz, Derek Barnett. I'd be more scared if he's in the 16-32 range. 

The only one of those that were his was Wentz and Barnett

Cox was Andy and Lane was Chip. 

I guess if we’re picking high enough, with this many needs, it could limit his chance to blow it lol

 

[Insein]

The only one of those that were his was Wentz and Barnett

Cox was Andy and Lane was Chip. 

I guess if we’re picking high enough, with this many needs, it could limit his chance to blow it lol

2012 was all Howie. They made that clear. As for 2013, Chip wanted Dion Jordan and Miami saved us from himself. Howie sensibly got him to take Lane. Chips drafts were 14 and 15.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

2012 was all Howie. They made that clear. As for 2013, Chip wanted Dion Jordan and Miami saved us from himself. Howie sensibly got him to take Lane. Chips drafts were 14 and 15.

As far as I know Andy never relinquished his position and in 2012 was still the executive Vice President of football operations which is the GM. Maybe Howie assisted but it was Andy’s draft from what his title suggests. 

Chip also had final say ever since he was an Eagle. From the time he was there he had control over the roster which also essentially made him the GM. 

That’s how I remember it anyway 

 

[Insein]

But if you remember the articles, they made it very clear that despite Howie being named GM since 2010, his first draft where he called the shots was 2012. 

And Chips first year he didn't have full control on draft evaluation and everything. That was the whole point of the power struggle in 2014.

Howie drafts are 2012, 2013, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020. Plenty of bad and good in those drafts to get an idea that Howie is average at best as a GM. Nothing special worth keeping. 

 

[DJackson10]

Just thinking out loud....

Let’s assume Hurts plays well the rest of the way. Who gets the most value in a trade for us next season out of the him and Wentz?

Hurts not because that's how I value them but GM's would. Younger and cheaper deal and teams are always looking for that next sexy new toy on offense. I personally think Hurts Is a good kid by JAG QB. If I'm in win now mode I'd take the hit for 2 yrs and see if Wentz can be that guy. if I'm a team in rebuild and just looking to keep fans at the stadium I pay the higher for Hurts. Thats if any of that happened. 

 

[DJackson10]

My thought on Howie is tempered by not really knowing how/who made the decisions.
There are actually some decent picks. Sweat, Sanders, Goedert, Mailata, Driscoll, Singleton.

What kills is high profile misses the past two years. JJ over Metcalf, Reagor over Jefferson.

Hypothetically - what if Howie was pushing for Jefferson, coaches were pushing for Reagor, and they went with the coaches pick? No clue if that's what happened, but its possible Lurie has reasons to not can Howie that we don't know.

Jett also gave us some info we still aren't sure is true or not about Lurie making football decisions such as JJAW over Matcalf when the scouts wanted him, Miller pick etc. 

Also we don't know if a player picked before the Eagles altered the draft strategy or what teams were picking after them. Only one I know of is the Thorson Pick. Eagles wanted Wentz former College teammate and back up Easton Stick. We traded back and the Chargers end up taking Stick and the team settled on THorson 

 

[DJackson10]

Currently. Teams will surely adjust and create space in the off season. 

I’m sure there’s ultimately a guy in charge after weighing all of their options. You’d have to take your scouts and coaches input as well but the buck has to stop with someone. While he’s pulled a few out of his hat (the hate part) he has done so bad with the layups. We really need to get to the bottom of who is telling us to pick these west coast guys and fire them lol

I was thinking the same but wasn’t sure how much has changed in a year with Hurts. He was the 5th QB taken and I don’t know if a few good games would suddenly shoot his value into the first round. 

I'm thinking there's teams who missed on QBs last year who though they'd be in better position to take one of the top 5 this year (I think the top 5 this year all better outside of Tua and I think Fields is rated way too highly are much better) then a team might feel like taking Hurts is better 

 

[DJackson10]

It is a better situation than Osweiler who showed he stunk....Wentz probably still has fans in coaches and front offices that blame the situation more than talent...still cant see a 1st rder with all that $ left but who knows....

Doesnt help that the cap is going to go down next year.....looking at teams that have QB needs and could find ways to get that under the cap:

likely interest  - I dont think Phlly wants to trade him within conference - Indy, Pats and Denver all make sense...Pats/Indy best shot at a 1st rder 

NE values their picks too much and I'd hate for him to go there. Carson is too nice to go to NE.