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***Official 2022 World Cup Thread*** (3 Viewers)

You have 3 minutes. One right erases so very many mistakes...

Edit: And literally 10 seconds after I pressed Save, he missed another chance.
 
FreeBaGeL said:
NewlyRetired said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Lukaku is never allowed to make a Wondo joke.
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he had 3 Wondo's in a 5 minute stretch. There is no way he can ever live this down :(
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To be fair to him I think one of those wouldn't have counted anyway (the De Bruyne cross was almost certainly out of bounds before he kicked it).
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I agree, but he did not know that as it would have had to go to VAR as neither ref or AR called it out. It was still a bad miss from his POV
 
Zow said:
gianmarco said:
Canada wins CONCACAF and gets 0 points. Crazy.
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Yeah, but that was actually a really impressive showing for a 0 point result. They should have beat Belgium and tied today.
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They played a great first half against Belgium, but were outplayed in the second half. They were boat-raced by Croatia. Possibly the worst performance of the group stage except for Costa Rica against Spain (Herdman didn't help by playing 9,000-year-old Atiba Hutchinson as a DM for 70 minutes against probably the best passing midfield in the world). And they went down 2 to Morocco before they remembered to start playing. They showed a remarkable inability to keep competing when they got punched in the mouth.
 
Dickies said:
Zow said:
gianmarco said:
Canada wins CONCACAF and gets 0 points. Crazy.
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Yeah, but that was actually a really impressive showing for a 0 point result. They should have beat Belgium and tied today.
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Canada’s defense was terrible all tournament IMHO
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Their DNA coming in was protect the back at all costs, and let David/Davies try and win the game for them on a rare attack up the field.

They entirely changed this for the Belgium game which shocked everyone but they looked really good doing do (or more likely Belgium completely underestimated them and was poor on the day). Because of that success against Belgium (which was unfortunately a loss), they abandoned what they did best in qualifying.
 
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Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Or to put it another way. Obviously, I was rooting fervently for the US against Iran. But try this thought experiment. Imagine that Weah's goal in first-half stoppage time was actually scored by Taremi for Iran in second-half stoppage time to send Iran through to the knockouts and send the US home. Even with all the motivation in the world to want that call to go the US's way, I simply can't imagine that I would be bemoaning the refs "screwing" the US if that goal were to be given.

Because in my 45 years of watching soccer, that goal has never been clearly and obviously offside. I've seen close calls like that called offside, but only because at the finest margins it's always been a judgment call (although the guidance has stated for a while that the offensive player gets the benefit of the doubt on judgment calls).
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You sound like a baseball fan championing ref human error. Respectfully, this makes no sense to me.

In your hypo, as a USA fan I wouldn't think the US were "screwed" by the refs because obviously humans can make a errant judgment call in good faith with such a narrow margin. But, I'd be thinking "man, I wish we had better technology to get this correct." Which, you know, we now have and you're complaining about.
 
There's not 'should have' in soccer. It's a sport where looking better, possession time and opportunities don't matter in the end. It's about finishing the very few set plays and corners you have. And many times that's just luck. US is a perfect example. Should have beaten Wales and Iran by 2+ goals. But they didn't finish chances. And that's ALL that matters at this level.
 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Zow said:
gianmarco said:
Canada wins CONCACAF and gets 0 points. Crazy.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but that was actually a really impressive showing for a 0 point result. They should have beat Belgium and tied today.
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They played a great first half against Belgium, but were outplayed in the second half. They were boat-raced by Croatia. Possibly the worst performance of the group stage except for Costa Rica against Spain (Herdman didn't help by playing 9,000-year-old Atiba Hutchinson as a DM for 70 minutes against probably the best passing midfield in the world). And they went down 2 to Morocco before they remembered to start playing. They showed a remarkable inability to keep competing when they got punched in the mouth.
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Fair.

I guess I just think that for recording no points, they weren't some pushover who never had any real chances to win or draw a game (e.g. Qatar).
 
Zow said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Or to put it another way. Obviously, I was rooting fervently for the US against Iran. But try this thought experiment. Imagine that Weah's goal in first-half stoppage time was actually scored by Taremi for Iran in second-half stoppage time to send Iran through to the knockouts and send the US home. Even with all the motivation in the world to want that call to go the US's way, I simply can't imagine that I would be bemoaning the refs "screwing" the US if that goal were to be given.

Because in my 45 years of watching soccer, that goal has never been clearly and obviously offside. I've seen close calls like that called offside, but only because at the finest margins it's always been a judgment call (although the guidance has stated for a while that the offensive player gets the benefit of the doubt on judgment calls).
Click to expand...
You sound like a baseball fan championing ref human error. Respectfully, this makes no sense to me.

In your hypo, as a USA fan I wouldn't think the US were "screwed" by the refs because obviously humans can make a errant judgment call in good faith with such a narrow margin. But, I'd be thinking "man, I wish we had better technology to get this correct." Which, you know, we now have and you're complaining about.
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I’m with RHE on this. I don’t think the intent of VAR when it was initially implemented was to overturn goals for people being offsides by distances undetectable to the human eye
 
Just a reminder that nothing is a given when it comes to this tournament.

FIFA world rankings notables:

2. Belgium -- Out in group stage
6. Italy -- Did not qualify
10. Denmark -- Out in group stage
11. Germany -- Possibly/likely out in group stage
13. Mexico -- Out in group stage
14. Uruguay -- Possibly/likely out in group stage
17. Colombia -- Did not qualify
19. Wales -- Out in group stage
20. Iran -- Out in group stage

And even #15 Switzerland is at risk to not get out of the group stage

That's 10 of the top 20 countries that didn't even make the Round of 16.

Now, those FIFA rankings aren't perfect, but there are a few very good countries not moving on.
 
Zow said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Or to put it another way. Obviously, I was rooting fervently for the US against Iran. But try this thought experiment. Imagine that Weah's goal in first-half stoppage time was actually scored by Taremi for Iran in second-half stoppage time to send Iran through to the knockouts and send the US home. Even with all the motivation in the world to want that call to go the US's way, I simply can't imagine that I would be bemoaning the refs "screwing" the US if that goal were to be given.

Because in my 45 years of watching soccer, that goal has never been clearly and obviously offside. I've seen close calls like that called offside, but only because at the finest margins it's always been a judgment call (although the guidance has stated for a while that the offensive player gets the benefit of the doubt on judgment calls).
Click to expand...
You sound like a baseball fan championing ref human error. Respectfully, this makes no sense to me.

In your hypo, as a USA fan I wouldn't think the US were "screwed" by the refs because obviously humans can make a errant judgment call in good faith with such a narrow margin. But, I'd be thinking "man, I wish we had better technology to get this correct." Which, you know, we now have and you're complaining about.
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I am comfortable with judgment calls in the game. I think VAR has a place in the game to the extent that it allows the ref on the field to be clear on what he or she saw and call the play accordingly. But the ref still has to decide if a tackle is a yellow or a red (or whether to show a yellow early at all). If an arm is in a natural or unnatural position within the context of the play when struck by the ball. Whether a ball is deliberately played back to the keeper. Whether a "coming together" in the penalty box results in enough contact to call a penalty. These are all subjective calls.

Good refereeing is as much art as science. Call it too strict and the game never gets to breathe. Keep the cards in the pocket too long and you risk endangering the players. Just as with baseball or basketball, I think the cardinal obligation of the ref is to call the game consistently for both teams.
 
Brunell4MVP said:
There's not 'should have' in soccer. It's a sport where looking better, possession time and opportunities don't matter in the end. It's about finishing the very few set plays and corners you have. And many times that's just luck. US is a perfect example. Should have beaten Wales and Iran by 2+ goals. But they didn't finish chances. And that's ALL that matters at this level.
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I think that over larger sample sizes, performances ("should haves") tend to pretty closely mirror results. But international tournaments aren't large sample sizes. You're talking about 3-7 games. So variance is a pretty significant factor.
 
Bracket busted. I feel like I keep expecting KdB to step up on these big stages and am disappointed. Lukaku has been sharper for the national team though. Feel for him.
 
Pot round up:
Pot 1: Advanced: :coffee: Brazil, France, Argentina, England, Portugal

Eliminated :kicksrock: : Qatar, Belgium

TBD :oldunsure: : Spain

Pot 2: Advanced :pickle: : Netherlands, Holland, Dutch, USA, Croatia
Eliminated :ptts: : Mexico, Denmark
TBD :scared: : Germany, Uruguay, Switzerland

Pot 3 Advanced :towelwave: : Senegal, Morocco, Poland
Eliminated :sadbanana: : Iran, Tunisia

TBD :unsure: : Japan, Serbia, South Korea

Pot 4 Advanced :bowtie: : Australia

Eliminated :wall: : Canada, Ecuador, Saudi Arabia, Wales

TBD :loco: :Cameroon, Ghana, Costa Rica

-QG
 
FreeBaGeL said:
Yes, it slows the game down, ruins celebrations, and creates less scoring. But it's either that or we acknowledge that to avoid those things we're just going to knowingly allow the wrong teams to win games in this gajillion dollar tournament, and we accept that there is going to be massive controversy several times every world cup where goals get incorrectly allowed/disallowed when we know, scientifically, that the wrong call was made. And in a low scoring game like soccer, one known illegal goal that we know should/shouldn't have counted can be the difference between a team going out in the group stage and them going all the way to the finals.
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This. I'm not usually on the side of technology in sports, but when there's one World Cup every 4 years and 2.4 goals per game, it seems worth the effort to get those calls right.
 
Dr. Octopus said:
Zow said:
Which, you know, we now have and you're complaining about.
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He's saying they overstepped what VAR is set up for - to reverse clear and obvious errors. Not to view at 50 different angles to try and find one where he is.
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From what I understand, it is about digital tracking tech (a chip literally embedded in the ball) to make this determination, not someone looking at a replay. It's computer generated and thus not subject to human error.

The problem I have is the rule itself where any part of the body is beyond the defender. A freaking hand shouldn't cause you to be offside, which a human being would recognize but a computer will not.
 
Been out of range of a good connection since Sunday morning, so a log in this thread to catch up on. But, home in time to watch Germany hopefully get this done.
 
In watching all of these games (and really enjoying them), the one thing I do dislike about the game itself is the fluky nature of it. I've often felt the same way about hockey.

At times (and quite often if we are honest), the team that plays better doesn't always win. A team can really "outplay" their opponent and yet a couple of bad bounces or a miss by inches can cost them the game. Sure it takes some effort and quality play by the opponent to create some of that "luck", but there is a lot of chance around a ball getting ping ponged around by human feet for 90 minutes that can be cruel.

Lukaku's miss today on the side post was probably 2-3" from being a goal. Belgium really outplayed Croatia throughout the match, but ended up with a draw. Belgium did everything better, but could never get anything to go in the net and thus have nothing to show for their effort. Sometimes that feels really empty, even as a casual spectator with no specific rooting interest.

My favorite sport (basketball) almost never has a team completely outplay their opponent and still lose. There are just too many scoring plays involved for a truly dominant team to lose to a weaker team without somebody playing great or poorly in some measurable way. Once the shot clock was instituted, it forced teams to play faster and removed the fluky nature of teams limiting possessions. Unfortunately HS basketball still doesn't have shot clocks yet, so you still get some of those 20-18 upsets on rare occasions.

I feel like the one thing that FIFA could do to improve scoring just a bit is to tweak the offsides rule. I think a hand/arm shouldn't cause a player to be offside, but it should be feet/torso/head only considered for both the offensive and defensive players. Take only the core of the body position into consideration, not just a flailing arm. If you can't touch the ball with it, why should it make you offside?
 
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